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View Full Version : Inexperienced Tebow vs Aging Favre


MacGruder
11-01-2011, 11:32 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=300919016

Tebow's game may have looked ugly.. yet he was as good or better than a hall of fame QB on a better team

When you consider all the factors I think these situations are very comparable. Tebow was in an even worse situation and had no Adrian Peterson. Favre was playing weaker competition as well.

Favre had 3 interceptions and a fumble. Remember.. Favre led his team to the playoffs the season before. So it wasn't as if he wasn't capable. And he had decades of experience to rely on as well.

Both Tebow and Favre had the same kind of bullseye on them as well because of their high profiles.

I think Favre is a very comparable QB to Tebow.. look how Favre was traded early in his career and was considered incredibly raw..

I also think it is incredible how Favre retired and was all ESPN could talk about.. and then Tebow comes in just as he is leaving and now all anyone can talk about on ESPN is Tebow.. and they are both just as polarizing. It's like father time being replaced by baby new year.. haha

I also see these guys who are not concerned at all about putting up pretty numbers but are doing anything they possibly can to get wins. I said last season that Favre looked worse than Orton.. but it was because Favre was actually trying to win games.. not just put up pretty numbers in a loss to keep his starting job. Tebow and Favre are the same in this way.. they are only thinking about winning, nothing else.

Maximus
11-01-2011, 11:38 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ss2hULhXf04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MacGruder
11-01-2011, 11:41 PM
That's appropriate.. the teacher to the students..

RhymesayersDU
11-01-2011, 11:44 PM
You guys are projecting all over the place here.

Houshyamama
11-01-2011, 11:46 PM
http://mattcbr.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/holygrail028.jpg

DBroncos4life
11-01-2011, 11:47 PM
Wow!!! Now we are comparing him to a past his prime player LOL

Maximus
11-01-2011, 11:49 PM
That's appropriate.. the teacher to the students..

After the massive failure of The Tebow this season... you're going to have massive amounts of crow flowing out of your ass!

Hotwheelz
11-01-2011, 11:55 PM
You guys are projecting all over the place here.

Mmm yeah... that's hot.

MacGruder
11-01-2011, 11:55 PM
After the massive failure of The Tebow this season... you're going to have massive amounts of crow flowing out of your ass!

We'll see.. people were saying Tebow would never win a championship early in his career in college too.. said he could never pass against SEC defenses after his first year in college.

MacGruder
11-01-2011, 11:56 PM
Wow!!! Now we are comparing him to a past his prime player LOL

Yea.. Tebow is very raw and will get better where Favre didn't. Point is Favre had the skill, experience and a better team.

Hotwheelz
11-02-2011, 12:02 AM
Hey Mac, can I project on you?

Blueflame
11-02-2011, 01:20 AM
::)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/stretch.jpg

Jason in LA
11-02-2011, 02:32 AM
This thread is just dumb.

HAT
11-02-2011, 06:07 AM
Wow!!! Now we are comparing him to a past his prime player LOL

They're both past their primes so why not?

cmhargrove
11-02-2011, 06:13 AM
MacGruder, seriously?

I am a huge Tebow supporter, but that last game was worse than dog ****. I mean the worst Qb'd game I have seen since I can remember. The truth is that Tebow needs a lot of work, but he will have to make steady progress each game this year, or he is in danger of never getting his shot as a starting Qb again - ever.

I love Tebow, i'm solidly in his corner and rooting for him every play. However, this next game might be bigger (for his career) than any game he has ever played in his life. Coaches can live with "up and down" performances, but if they see that he can't learn and adjust after 3-4 games, it might be all over for his hopes as an NFL QB.

Play2win
11-02-2011, 06:53 AM
Seriously, has anyone seen a worse QB performance in the NFL, ever?

I'm talking pre-season, scab teams, strike years... has anyone look that bad at being a QB for an NFL team, ever?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-02-2011, 07:00 AM
Seriously, has anyone seen a worse QB performance in the NFL, ever?

I'm talking pre-season, scab teams, strike years... has anyone look that bad at being a QB for an NFL team, ever?

I can't recall one.

Play2win
11-02-2011, 07:03 AM
I can't recall one.

Me neither. At least not in my lifetime.

TailgateNut
11-02-2011, 07:09 AM
Me neither. At least not in my lifetime.

It pretty much "takes the cake", as far as **** performances are concerned.

bfoflcommish
11-02-2011, 07:23 AM
1st start of 2011 mid way thru 3rd quarter 4 completions total....cant get worse right? wait 2 nd start of season -7 total passing yards into 3rd quarter.....yes both thos stats were in 3rd quarter, and yet people want to argue he is the "best" option, bwhahahahaha. I cant recall ever seeing only 4 compltions OR -7 yards passing by an nfl qb after halftime, mych less back to back games of futility

Rohirrim
11-02-2011, 07:28 AM
<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/silly walks gif icon/ivegotabikeucanride/Monty Python/SillyWalksAkaMyFirstGIf.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu105/ivegotabikeucanride/Monty%20Python/SillyWalksAkaMyFirstGIf.gif" border="0"></a>

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-02-2011, 07:30 AM
I was told we're not to compare Tebow to a 7 year vet in Orton, because that wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Obviously, what we should do is compare him to Brett Favre... at the end of a 20 year career.

Alrighty.

hookemhess
11-02-2011, 07:39 AM
http://i.imgur.com/TiVuj.gif

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 08:11 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=300919016

Tebow's game may have looked ugly.. yet he was as good or better than a hall of fame QB on a better team

When you consider all the factors I think these situations are very comparable. Tebow was in an even worse situation and had no Adrian Peterson. Favre was playing weaker competition as well.

Favre had 3 interceptions and a fumble. Remember.. Favre led his team to the playoffs the season before. So it wasn't as if he wasn't capable. And he had decades of experience to rely on as well.

Both Tebow and Favre had the same kind of bullseye on them as well because of their high profiles.

I think Favre is a very comparable QB to Tebow.. look how Favre was traded early in his career and was considered incredibly raw..

I also think it is incredible how Favre retired and was all ESPN could talk about.. and then Tebow comes in just as he is leaving and now all anyone can talk about on ESPN is Tebow.. and they are both just as polarizing. It's like father time being replaced by baby new year.. haha

I also see these guys who are not concerned at all about putting up pretty numbers but are doing anything they possibly can to get wins. I said last season that Favre looked worse than Orton.. but it was because Favre was actually trying to win games.. not just put up pretty numbers in a loss to keep his starting job. Tebow and Favre are the same in this way.. they are only thinking about winning, nothing else.

Are you a Florida Gator fan?

Crushaholic
11-02-2011, 08:18 AM
Seriously, has anyone seen a worse QB performance in the NFL, ever?

I'm talking pre-season, scab teams, strike years... has anyone look that bad at being a QB for an NFL team, ever?


Tebow even makes this guy look good...


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QKmz5BA5hDU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TonyR
11-02-2011, 08:18 AM
I was told we're not to compare Tebow to a 7 year vet in Orton, because that wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Obviously, what we should do is compare him to Brett Favre... at the end of a 20 year career.

Alrighty.

No worries. I'm sure jhns will be along any moment to straighten us all out. Orton and/or McDaniels will somehow be to blame.

Dagmar
11-02-2011, 08:28 AM
http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/images/tinfoil_hat_shazam.png

Smiling Assassin27
11-02-2011, 08:32 AM
Raise your standards, man. Raise your standards.

To do anything else but admit Tebow is horrid and earnestly hope that he gets better is futile, dude.

Welcome to the real world.

I never said it would be easy, Neo. I just said that it would be the truth.

Rohirrim
11-02-2011, 08:42 AM
Tebow is better than Johnny U.

Rigs11
11-02-2011, 08:43 AM
wow so tebow is better than a 40 year old qb? sweet! were do i sign up for some tebowing?

LRtagger
11-02-2011, 09:14 AM
Favre was out of the league the next offseason and the Vikings drafted a QB with their 1st round pick the next draft.

Maybe MacGruber is on to something after all.

Steve Sewell
11-02-2011, 09:24 AM
MacGruder, please STFU. You're polluting this forum with nonsense.

McDman
11-02-2011, 09:42 AM
MacGruder's timeline.

It all started when MacGruder was dropped on his head in his early years.

http://www.reallyfunnypictures.co.uk/kids/pics/04.08.07/madkid.jpg

The psychopathic tendencies began at an early age.

http://content7.flixster.com/question/55/86/91/5586917_std.gif

It didn't help that his parents pushed him into a life of glamor and scandals, "If only we'd had a girl", they would murmur.

http://www.dogcanyon.org/wp-content/uploads//2011/01/pageant-play850306.jpg

The middle school years were just plain awkward, but let's be honest, who wasn't awkward then? But his picture was bad ass with all of those lasers!

http://www.thisblogrules.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/yearbook_laser_effects.jpg

In high school he took a turn for the worse.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rkrSKLYMWBY/TP07FYUzkCI/AAAAAAAABjU/HU-Ms922JNY/s1600/crazy_guy.jpg

And here we are now, finally after MacGruder's breaking point. Good thing they let him post from jail.

http://media.al.com/wire/photo/norway-shooter-5e082a6d26f9affc.jpg

go_broncos
11-02-2011, 09:43 AM
One positive with Tebow failure - MacGruder will stop posting next year in this site.
Does anyone remember Cutlerfan?.
Everything is someone else fault..
MacGruder falls under the same category.

Tebow has to improve a lot if he wants to survive in NFL.
For broncos sake..he improves so that we can draft a defensive player.

Quoydogs
11-02-2011, 10:02 AM
I'm a huge Tebow fan but that last game was bad. Blame who ever you want but the fact is that we put Tebow in because he was supposed to win regardless of this happened or that happened.

I will agree it was not all Tebow. I mean he did have zero time in the pocket and It was a dick move by the front office to say you get the start Tebow but we are going to trade your best WR away. So now he is left with a bunch of #2's.

Point is even if you gave him more time and better WR he would have still lost with that performance he put up last week.

I'm hoping Tebow grabs the game and takes over but that last game was not good in any way.

TonyR
11-02-2011, 10:30 AM
One positive with Tebow failure - MacGruder will stop posting next year in this site.

And for that matter I don't think I've seen dramallama since the debacle on Sunday. So there's that, too!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-02-2011, 10:36 AM
And for that matter I don't think I've seen dramallama since the debacle on Sunday. So there's that, too!

Most mysterious disappearance since the Lindbergh baby.

As usual, he talks a ton of ****, and when he's proven wrong nobody can find him.

DeuceOfClub
11-02-2011, 10:42 AM
:thumbs:

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 10:54 AM
Seriously, has anyone seen a worse QB performance in the NFL, ever?

I'm talking pre-season, scab teams, strike years... has anyone look that bad at being a QB for an NFL team, ever?

This is the exact point I am trying to make.. Tebow and Favre's play may LOOK terrible.. but in reality it is far better than many Qbs whose play LOOKS better...

Looks are completely deceptive.. Orton putting up hollow numbers when the game is out of reach is a perfect example of this. If guys like Orton actually played to win they would loo much much worse.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-02-2011, 12:11 PM
Tebow even makes this guy look good...


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QKmz5BA5hDU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TD Kenny McKinley

Inkana7
11-02-2011, 12:11 PM
This is the exact point I am trying to make.. Tebow and Favre's play may LOOK terrible.. but in reality it is far better than many Qbs whose play LOOKS better...

Looks are completely deceptive.. Orton putting up hollow numbers when the game is out of reach is a perfect example of this. If guys like Orton actually played to win they would loo much much worse.

Oh my God you're serious. You're honestly serious.

broncocalijohn
11-02-2011, 12:16 PM
It pretty much "takes the cake", as far as **** performances are concerned.

I sure dont want a slice of that cake. Here it taste like ****.

Most mysterious disappearance since the Lindbergh baby.

As usual, he talks a ton of ****, and when he's proven wrong nobody can find him.

I would say most mysterious disappearance since the #1 seed Maverick series being swept by a #8 seed.

errand
11-02-2011, 12:18 PM
Yea.. Tebow is very raw and will get better where Favre didn't. Point is Favre had the skill, experience and a better team.

Favre's last season was almost as pathetic/painful as watching Willie Mays trying to play outfield for the Mets at 41....

come to think of it, watching Tebow playing vs Lions was also pretty ****ing painful....so now I get the Favre/Tebow comparison

BroncoBen
11-02-2011, 12:23 PM
This is the exact point I am trying to make.. Tebow and Favre's play may LOOK terrible.. but in reality it is far better than many Qbs whose play LOOKS better...

Looks are completely deceptive.. Orton putting up hollow numbers when the game is out of reach is a perfect example of this. If guys like Orton actually played to win they would loo much much worse.

?? I'm confused.. 'the play may LOOK terrible' .. it was terrible, at the least the game I witnessed was. Under thrown passes, passes behind the WRs, passes thrown over the Wrs heads, not to mention holding the ball too long resulting in holding calls and sacks.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-02-2011, 12:28 PM
Orton putting up hollow numbers when the game is out of reach is a perfect example of this. If guys like Orton actually played to win they would loo much much worse.

Let's see. It was 45-3, which is pretty out of reach, when Tim started putting up his hollow numbers... but we're going to celebrate that?

Neat-o.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 12:40 PM
?? I'm confused.. 'the play may LOOK terrible' .. it was terrible, at the least the game I witnessed was. Under thrown passes, passes behind the WRs, passes thrown over the Wrs heads, not to mention holding the ball too long resulting in holding calls and sacks.

Just like Favre's 3 picks and a fumble..

Now take Orton.. he takes EXQACTLY what the defense gives him.. no more.. this ensures Orton will put up meaningless numbers in a loss.

I said this last seaosn when Orton and favre were playing.. I said Favre looks terrible BECAUSE he is TRYING ot win.

Orton had better numbers and LOOKED better than Favre in losses because he was so conservative.

There is a reason guys like Favre and Tebow are "winners" and a guy like Orton is a loser.. Fox falls in this camp too. Tebow and Favre will go down SWINGING.. it may make them look terrible when it doesn't work.. but it's also what makes them winners when it is working.

This is also why I said Cutler was better than Orton as well.. they are completely different kinds of players.. both have massive flaws.. BUT.. Cutler at least TRIES to win.. rather than assuring losing by being so conservative.

The difference is that I think Tebow will get better where Cutler didn't. He just needs time.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 12:42 PM
Let's see. It was 45-3, which is pretty out of reach, when Tim started putting up his hollow numbers... but we're going to celebrate that?

Neat-o.

That's not ALL Tebow does though.. you are using one game. Orton could never make comebacks like Tebow because he doesn't have the explosive offensive capabilities Tebow does. It's because Orton takes no risks.. no risks no rewards..

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 12:47 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=301212003


C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT NFL RATING
J. Cutler 12/26 152 5.8 0 2 32.9
Team 12/26 138 5.3 0 2

errand
11-02-2011, 12:56 PM
That's not ALL Tebow does though.. you are using one game. Orton could never make comebacks like Tebow because he doesn't have the explosive offensive capabilities Tebow does. It's because Orton takes no risks.. no risks no rewards..

Kyle Orton has led the Broncos to more come from behind wins as Tebow has...

Orton was down 10-0 to Cowboys and we won 17-10...and he led us to comeback OT win vs Patriots...oh and who can forget the first win of his Broncos career 12-7 over Bengals. Orton 3, Tebow 2

so please stop with the "Tebow plays to win" bull****...they all play to win you numbskull....

hookemhess
11-02-2011, 12:57 PM
?? I'm confused.. 'the play may LOOK terrible' .. it was terrible, at the least the game I witnessed was. Under thrown passes, passes behind the WRs, passes thrown over the Wrs heads, not to mention holding the ball too long resulting in holding calls and sacks.

Did you not hear the man? "Looks are completely deceptive."

Hilarious!

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:01 PM
Just like Favre's play is completely deceptive compared to Orton's...

Atlanta coach Jerry Glanville did not approve of the drafting of Favre, saying it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre into the game.[15]



Favre's first pass in an NFL regular season game resulted in an interception returned for a touchdown. He only attempted four passes in his career at Atlanta, was intercepted twice, and completed none of them. Brett took one other snap, which resulted in a sack for an eleven yard loss.[5]

broncosteven
11-02-2011, 01:04 PM
Seriously, has anyone seen a worse QB performance in the NFL, ever?

I'm talking pre-season, scab teams, strike years... has anyone look that bad at being a QB for an NFL team, ever?

Bobby Douglas had some gems like this, I saw a lot of his play in Chicago, reminds me a lot of Tim.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:04 PM
Kyle Orton has led the Broncos to more come from behind wins as Tebow has...

Orton was down 10-0 to Cowboys and we won 17-10...and he led us to comeback OT win vs Patriots...oh and who can forget the first win of his Broncos career 12-7 over Bengals. Orton 3, Tebow 2

so please stop with the "Tebow plays to win" bull****...they all play to win you numbskull....

You are comparing a seasoned vet to a guy in his 4th start you f'ing retard LOL

Playing in a system that is completely different than what he did in college while changing his throwing motion,,

How can people be so completely idiotic?

Orton has had TWO ROAD wins in his last TWENTY EIGHT games..

Tebow hasn't even had a decent preseason training program..!

broncosteven
11-02-2011, 01:08 PM
...

Tebow hasn't even had a decent preseason training program..!

Does last years TC not count?

bendog
11-02-2011, 01:11 PM
Bobby Douglas had some gems like this, I saw a lot of his play in Chicago, reminds me a lot of Tim.

I know. 2 games ago I said it was unfair to Tebow to compare them, but it may be the other way around.

Boobs McGee
11-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Just like Favre's 3 picks and a fumble..

Now take Orton.. he takes EXQACTLY what the defense gives him.. no more.. this ensures Orton will put up meaningless numbers in a loss.

I said this last seaosn when Orton and favre were playing.. I said Favre looks terrible BECAUSE he is TRYING ot win.

Orton had better numbers and LOOKED better than Favre in losses because he was so conservative.

There is a reason guys like Favre and Tebow are "winners" and a guy like Orton is a loser.. Fox falls in this camp too. Tebow and Favre will go down SWINGING.. it may make them look terrible when it doesn't work.. but it's also what makes them winners when it is working.

This is also why I said Cutler was better than Orton as well.. they are completely different kinds of players.. both have massive flaws.. BUT.. Cutler at least TRIES to win.. rather than assuring losing by being so conservative.

The difference is that I think Tebow will get better where Cutler didn't. He just needs time.

you weren't here last season....

SO, who's your alternate identity?

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:18 PM
Does last years TC not count?

No.. because he didn't get starter reps.. look how terrible Carson Palmer is playing without proper preparation.. and he is a very seasoned vet.

Tebow not getting any kind of decent preseason added to all his other issues and it's INCREDIBLE he is playing as well as he is..

Of course the people who wanted to see him fail don't consider ANY of this..

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:19 PM
you weren't here last season....

SO, who's your alternate identity?

I didn't say I said it here, Nimrod..

fontaine
11-02-2011, 01:20 PM
You are comparing a seasoned vet to a guy in his 4th start you f'ing retard LOL

Playing in a system that is completely different than what he did in college while changing his throwing motion,,

How can people be so completely idiotic?





I completely agree. A person has to be a "f'ing retard" as you put it, to compare a seasoned vet to a guy in his 4th start.



Here's the prince of "f'ing retards" now:



http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101005
http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=300919016



Tebow's game may have looked ugly.. yet he was as good or better than a hall of fame QB on a better team

When you consider all the factors I think these situations are very comparable. Tebow was in an even worse situation and had no Adrian Peterson. Favre was playing weaker competition as well.

Favre had 3 interceptions and a fumble. Remember.. Favre led his team to the playoffs the season before. So it wasn't as if he wasn't capable. And he had decades of experience to rely on as well.

Both Tebow and Favre had the same kind of bullseye on them as well because of their high profiles.



But if you're still confused (probably) - Here's where the "f'ing retard"ation specifically takes place:




I think Favre is a very comparable QB to Tebow.. look how Favre was traded early in his career and was considered incredibly raw..

.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:23 PM
I completely agree. A person has to be a "f'ing retard" as you put it, to compare a seasoned vet to a guy in his 4th start.



Here's the prince of "f'ing retards" now:



http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=101005

It depends how they are being compared genius.. wow.. Tebow haters are beyond stupid.. lol

fontaine
11-02-2011, 01:31 PM
It depends how they are being compared genius.. wow.. Tebow haters are beyond stupid.. lol

Missed it huh?

Let's break it down again:

You are comparing a seasoned vet to a guy in his 4th start you f'ing retard LOL


3 pages prior, and the original post:


.......
When you consider all the factors I think these situations are very comparable.
......
I think Favre is a very comparable QB to Tebow...


Here's a picture to illustrate . . . . using your own words:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2784/retard.gif

bendog
11-02-2011, 01:32 PM
Seriously Mcd, you've worried this so much that you've hurt your head. Go home, make a drink and dial up a movie like Wild Target and seek emptiness

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:32 PM
Yeah.. you win.. LMFAO

fontaine
11-02-2011, 01:34 PM
Would it help expain things if I said: Hey, "f'ing retard" , "you're projecting"?

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:35 PM
I completely agree. A person has to be a "f'ing retard" as you put it, to compare a seasoned vet to a guy in his 4th start.

Here's the prince of "f'ing retards" now:

But if you're still confused (probably) - Here's where the "f'ing retard"ation specifically takes place:


I didn't say that was JUST as a rookie compared to a vet.. at that point I was talking about them at the same stage of their careers - rookies. which is why I said how raw they were both viewed..

LOl THAT is why you fail...

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:36 PM
Would it help expain things if I said "you're projecting" , "f'ing retard"?

Yes.. I was projecting.. so when I said "you win" it means I am in fact winning..

Thanks for playing..

DeuceOfClub
11-02-2011, 01:39 PM
It's also not fair to compare a seasoned vet to a QB with an explosive offensive capabilities.

broncocalijohn
11-02-2011, 01:40 PM
MacGruder is like a STD. After you have too much of him, your head starts to hurt. Only cure (besides a cowbell) is the ignore option. I have been MacGruder STD free until a quote of him shows up.

fontaine
11-02-2011, 01:41 PM
I didn't say that was JUST as a rookie compared to a vet.. at that point I was talking about them at the same stage of their careers - rookies. which is why I said how raw they were both viewed..

LOl THAT is why you fail...

Are you sure?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=300919016

When you consider all the factors I think these situations are very comparable. Tebow was in an even worse situation and had no Adrian Peterson. Favre was playing weaker competition as well.


So rookie QB Favre had Adrian Peterson huh?

Favre had 3 interceptions and a fumble. Remember.. Favre led his team to the playoffs the season before. So it wasn't as if he wasn't capable. And he had decades of experience to rely on as well.

Interesting, a rookie QB having decades of experience.


I also think it is incredible how Favre retired and was all ESPN could talk about.. and then Tebow comes in just as he is leaving and now all anyone can talk about on ESPN is Tebow.. and they are both just as polarizing. It's like father time being replaced by baby new year.. haha


I also see these guys who are not concerned at all about putting up pretty numbers but are doing anything they possibly can to get wins. I said last season that Favre looked worse than Orton.. but it was because Favre was actually trying to win games.. not just put up pretty numbers in a loss to keep his starting job. Tebow and Favre are the same in this way.. they are only thinking about winning, nothing else.

God Bless,
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
"retard"

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 01:49 PM
Jay cutler - Veteran - versus the Saints..

6 Sacks..

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=310918018

fontaine
11-02-2011, 02:11 PM
I didn't say that was JUST as a rookie compared to a vet.. at that point I was talking about them at the same stage of their careers - rookies. which is why I said how raw they were both viewed..

LOl THAT is why you fail...

But just so we're clear, the thread title you created was:

Inexperienced Tebow vs Aging Favre

ROFL!

fontaine
11-02-2011, 02:12 PM
MacGruder is like a STD. After you have too much of him, your head starts to hurt. Only cure (besides a cowbell) is the ignore option. I have been MacGruder STD free until a quote of him shows up.

I want him to put me on ignore instead!!!

:sunshine:

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 02:14 PM
But just so we're clear, the thread title you created was:



ROFL!

Don't you get it genius? There are times when you can compare a vet to a young player and times you can't..

Expecting Tebow to play better than a vet is stupid.. which is why when Tebow plays the same or better than a vet it shows how well he is playing..

God.. can't believe I have to explain this sheet..

bendog
11-02-2011, 02:30 PM
sooooo, the pt of this thread THEY BOTH SUCK AND SHOULDN'T BE STARTING IN THE NFL? Thanks for that genius.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 02:40 PM
sooooo, the pt of this thread THEY BOTH SUCK AND SHOULDN'T BE STARTING IN THE NFL? Thanks for that genius.

No.. the point is that Favre LOOKED worse than he was because he was TRYING ot win.. not just trying to loo pretty and put up hollow numbers in a loss.

Again. would you rather have a QB that fights for everything trying to win.. even if he gets sacked or throws bad passes down field..

Or a guy that falls down at the sight of contact throws passes out of bounds and checks down constantly ensuring he will look good but lose?

Orton LOOKED better than Favre in his last season for these reasons.. but it's total BS..

OR you can look at it the other way and realize that Favre and Tebow look much worse than they are because they are great players and always play to win even when things are at their worse..

Favre led his team to the playoffs the season before.. could Orton ever do that?

Just like Tebow played the Chargers better than Orton and led a comeback Orton never could have..

bendog
11-02-2011, 02:47 PM
So.... you look at this in different ways?

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 02:56 PM
No.. the point is that Favre LOOKED worse than he was because he was TRYING ot win.. not just trying to loo pretty and put up hollow numbers in a loss.

Again. would you rather have a QB that fights for everything trying to win.. even if he gets sacked or throws bad passes down field..

Or a guy that falls down at the sight of contact throws passes out of bounds and checks down constantly ensuring he will look good but lose?

Orton LOOKED better than Favre in his last season for these reasons.. but it's total BS..

OR you can look at it the other way and realize that Favre and Tebow look much worse than they are because they are great players and always play to win even when things are at their worse..

Favre led his team to the playoffs the season before.. could Orton ever do that?

Just like Tebow played the Chargers better than Orton and led a comeback Orton never could have..

Are you a Florida Gators fan?

McDman
11-02-2011, 03:04 PM
I used to think you were just stupid. Then I thought you were just insane. Now it is painfully obvious your are not only bat sh1t crazy but you are by far the dumbest person to ever have graced this board.

A squirrel has more cognitive ability than you.

Miss I.
11-02-2011, 03:11 PM
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/implied_facepalm.jpg

bowtown
11-02-2011, 03:15 PM
First the truth is ridiculed
Then it is violently opposed
Then it become apparent to everyone that Tebow sucks as much as Favre did last year.

bendog
11-02-2011, 03:18 PM
http://captionsplash.mylifetime.com/files/captionsplash/imagecache/cs_full_452x339/caption_photos/2009-10-14/1255536486/image.jpg

Frisian
11-02-2011, 03:20 PM
Don't you get it genius? There are times when you can compare a vet to a young player and times you can't..


So, you can only compare them when it only somewhat makes MacGruder's point. Good thing you told me that, or else I would have gone through life looking like an idiot.

Fedaykin
11-02-2011, 03:47 PM
Sorry, the comparison between 2010 Favre and Teebs is only valid in the sense that both had/have no business whatsoever playing QB in the NFL. Though, as bad as Favre was last year, at the very least the guy could hit an open receiver now and again instead of the pass sailing 10yds over, 20yrds past or some other horrible variation of the theme.

You know why? Favre was done, but at least he had his QB fundamentals (footwork, throwing motion) down.

bendog
11-02-2011, 04:03 PM
Sorry, the comparison between 2010 Favre and Teebs is only valid in the sense that both had/have no business whatsoever playing QB in the NFL. Though, as bad as Favre was last year, at the very least the guy could hit an open receiver now and again instead of the pass sailing 10yds over, 20yrds past or some other horrible variation of the theme.

You know why? Favre was done, but at least he had his QB fundamentals (footwork, throwing motion) down.

I don't like Favre, but the previous year he did get to the NFC championship game. Thread's a diss to a HOF guy. Inadvertently it does bring up the irony that the only time Favre won a championship, he played in the WC system and made the plays Holmgren wanted and stopped the gunslinger act.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:14 PM
Are you a Florida Gators fan?

No, why?

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:16 PM
I don't like Favre, but the previous year he did get to the NFC championship game. Thread's a diss to a HOF guy. Inadvertently it does bring up the irony that the only time Favre won a championship, he played in the WC system and made the plays Holmgren wanted and stopped the gunslinger act.

Favre also doesn't have the athleticism/durability Tebow does.. this is what I think all Qbs are missing in this era.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:17 PM
So, you can only compare them when it only somewhat makes MacGruder's point. Good thing you told me that, or else I would have gone through life looking like an idiot.

Saying a rookie should play like a vet makes no sense.. the fact he did play at the level of a vet at some times shows how good he is.. that is WHY the comparison is valid in that case..

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:18 PM
First the truth is ridiculed
Then it is violently opposed
Then it become apparent to everyone that Tebow sucks as much as Favre did last year.

And yet Favre and Tebow were actually better than guys putting up hollow numbers in losses.. that's the point.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:20 PM
I used to think you were just stupid. Then I thought you were just insane. Now it is painfully obvious your are not only bat sh1t crazy but you are by far the dumbest person to ever have graced this board.

A squirrel has more cognitive ability than you.

Meanwhile you tout Orton as a starter and Fox as an offensive coach.. lol

mr007
11-02-2011, 04:25 PM
Favre also doesn't have the athleticism/<b>durability</b> Tebow does.. this is what I think all Qbs are missing in this era.

You are a freaking moron. I have no idea why people even bother reading your posts anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_starts_by_a_quarterback_%28NFL%29

du·ra·ble
   [door-uh-buhl]
adjective
1. able to resist wear, decay, etc., well; lasting; enduring.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:26 PM
You are a freaking moron. I have no idea why people even bother reading your posts anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_consecutive_starts_by_a_quarterback_%28NFL%29

Favre doesn't run like Tebow does.. if he did he wouldn't have that streak.. again I have to explain things to the simpletons..

mr007
11-02-2011, 04:29 PM
Favre doesn't run like Tebow does.. if he did he wouldn't have that streak.. again I have to explain things to the simpletons..

Learn English, stop being right about everything, remove your head from your ass. I think that's the best advice you could possibly take. Ohh yeah, get your mouth off Tebow's cock too.

Maximus
11-02-2011, 04:30 PM
Favre doesn't run like Tebow does.. if he did he wouldn't have that streak.. again I have to explain things to the simpletons..

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ss2hULhXf04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:31 PM
Learn English, stop being right about everything, remove your head from your ass. I think that's the best advice you could possibly take. Ohh yeah, get your mouth off Tebow's cock too.

You mean "assimilate"?

join team defect?

McDman
11-02-2011, 04:34 PM
Meanwhile you tout Orton as a starter and Fox as an offensive coach.. lol

I'd be interested to see where exactly I said that after Orton clearly showed that he cannot get it done. I supported Tebow to start when he did and I still do. I have never even talked about Fox as an offensive coach.

Quit making stuff up, this goes to show you're ridiculous.

mr007
11-02-2011, 04:38 PM
You mean "assimilate"?

join team defect?

I mean if you'd like to join the world of sanity and reality - not a bad idea. Or just continue being mentally inept and asinine, whichever serves you.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:38 PM
I'd be interested to see where exactly I said that after Orton clearly showed that he cannot get it done. I supported Tebow to start when he did and I still do. I have never even talked about Fox as an offensive coach.

Quit making stuff up, this goes to show you're ridiculous.

You mean like how you just made assertions without backing them up? How does it feel?

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:41 PM
I mean if you'd like to join the world of sanity and reality - not a bad idea. Or just continue being mentally inept and asinine, whichever serves you.

You mean sanity like judging a totally unique player on the criteria of players that are nothing like him? And doing this without watching his whole career and then making knee jerk proclamations after a couple games with an unproven coach and without any talent around him?

McDman
11-02-2011, 04:44 PM
You mean like how you just made assertions without backing them up? How does it feel?

Not the same. I am stating my opinion, although it is about as close to fact as an opinion can be, you are blatantly making things up.

Does anyone remember the move "The Cell"? I'm pretty sure that is what it would be like inside this crazy's head.

gunns
11-02-2011, 04:45 PM
After the massive failure of The Tebow this season... you're going to have massive amounts of crow flowing out of your ass!

He'll never get it. He'll find someone to blame for Tebow's failure.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:47 PM
Not the same. I am stating my opinion, although it is about as close to fact as an opinion can be, you are blatantly making things up.

Does anyone remember the move "The Cell"? I'm pretty sure that is what it would be like inside this crazy's head.

WhoTF do you think you are to feel you need to go around sharing your opinion about everyone?

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:48 PM
He'll never get it. He'll find someone to blame for Tebow's failure.

Yeah.. it couldn't be John Fox.. look at his track record.. plus he reminds Elway of his Dad.. LOL

McDman
11-02-2011, 04:52 PM
WhoTF do you think you are to feel you need to go around sharing your opinion about everyone?

This is a message board, I think sharing one's opinion is kind of the point of posting on here.

Maximus
11-02-2011, 04:54 PM
He'll never get it. He'll find someone to blame for Tebow's failure.

Damn Gunns... you what's sad is... you're right about him! No matter what he's going to spew some BS! I have never seen anyone display cult like brainwashing like McGulpChowder!

McDman
11-02-2011, 04:55 PM
Damn Gunns... you what's sad is... you're right about him! No matter what he's going to spew some BS! I have never seen anyone display cult like brainwashing like McGulpChowder!

Don't you dare express your opinions on this message board!

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 04:55 PM
This is a message board, I think sharing one's opinion is kind of the point of posting on here.

Sharing your opinion on football... Yes..

Judging each other.. No

And you had the nerve to call me an idiot.. LOL

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 05:09 PM
No, why?

I just don't get your never ending love affair with Tim Tebow.



He's just not that good.


His role should be relegated to inside the 10 yard line while another QB plays between the 20's.


I want Tebow to play the rest of the year to show everyone, including you that he isn't a viable starting QB in the NFL.

McDman
11-02-2011, 05:35 PM
Sharing your opinion on football... Yes..

Judging each other.. No

And you had the nerve to call me an idiot.. LOL

You post on this board and you put yourself out there to be made fun of/judged. It doesn't happen too often but when someone as ridiculous as you comes on here it is too easy.

I'm still not sure this isn't some kind of social experiment to see how people treat someone with a mental illness when they post their ramblings on a message board.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 05:40 PM
I just don't get your never ending love affair with Tim Tebow.



He's just not that good.


His role should be relegated to inside the 10 yard line while another QB plays between the 20's.


I want Tebow to play the rest of the year to show everyone, including you that he isn't a viable starting QB in the NFL.

The problem is you are confusing unique with not good...

Meril Hoge did the same thing.. he said Tebow was the worst QB he had seen in 25 years.. that is just a very simplistic way of looking at things.. he;s not the worst.. he's the most unique.

The problem is that the NFL is not capable of adapting to Tebow.. which is really sad.. because if he was with a coach that could adapt to him you would see how good Tebow could be. Fox is one of the worst in this way.. Mcd would have been on eof the better ones.

You also have a provlem because so few NFl coaches have the capabilities to develop Qbs..

And people just assume Tebow CAN'Y develop because he hasn't yet.. but this gets back to him just being unique..

If Tebow could dominate the SEC just with raw talent and weak fundamentals.. imagine what he could do with polished fundamentals... the problem is you can't just change him all at once over night and put him in a completely different offense.. especially with everything else against him.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 05:42 PM
You post on this board and you put yourself out there to be made fun of/judged. It doesn't happen too often but when someone as ridiculous as you comes on here it is too easy.

I'm still not sure this isn't some kind of social experiment to see how people treat someone with a mental illness when they post their ramblings on a message board.

You mean BECAUSE MY OPINION IS DIFFERENT THAN YOURS? LOL sO.. OPEN MINDED..

Maximus
11-02-2011, 05:45 PM
You mean BECAUSE MY OPINION IS DIFFERENT THAN YOURS? LOL sO.. OPEN MINDED..

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZTHiPs4Hms8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

McDman
11-02-2011, 05:45 PM
You mean BECAUSE MY OPINION IS DIFFERENT THAN YOURS? LOL sO.. OPEN MINDED..

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2009/04/weekend_diversion_do_tinfoil_h/tinfoil_hat_antenna.jpg

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 05:53 PM
Yes.. message boards are just so people can all go to the same place and have the same opinion.. LOL

Bronx33
11-02-2011, 06:13 PM
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/3789/stupidinternetpolice.png

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 06:20 PM
The problem is you are confusing unique with not good...

Meril Hoge did the same thing.. he said Tebow was the worst QB he had seen in 25 years.. that is just a very simplistic way of looking at things.. he;s not the worst.. he's the most unique.

The problem is that the NFL is not capable of adapting to Tebow.. which is really sad.. because if he was with a coach that could adapt to him you would see how good Tebow could be. Fox is one of the worst in this way.. Mcd would have been on eof the better ones.

You also have a provlem because so few NFl coaches have the capabilities to develop Qbs..

And people just assume Tebow CAN'Y develop because he hasn't yet.. but this gets back to him just being unique..

If Tebow could dominate the SEC just with raw talent and weak fundamentals.. imagine what he could do with polished fundamentals... the problem is you can't just change him all at once over night and put him in a completely different offense.. especially with everything else against him.

Tebow is the definition of a system QB.

He needs a certain system to thrive...and they don't run that system in the NFL.

Why don't they run that offense in the NFL? QB's....including Tebow would die.

Tebow will never be able to be a consistent passer. His muscle memory will take over and he will struggle.

He can be an effective player in this league....just not as an everyday QB.

And make no mistake...what he did in college, makes no difference in the NFL.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Tebow is the definition of a system QB.

He really is NOT.

A system QB is a QB who even in that system couldn't be successful in the NFL.

All QBs are system QBs. If You put Brady in another system where he got ht more and didn't have all those yards after the catch he would be a totally different QB. Imagine Brady without a decent line around him.. he'd be dead meat.. Look at cassel in that same system..


He needs a certain system to thrive...and they don't run that system in the NFL.

Yes they do.. why do you think McD drafted Tebow.. Belichick devised his offensive system based on Urban Meyer's.

Why don't they run that offense in the NFL? QB's....including Tebow would die.

Cam Newton is doing it.. he just has the talent and coaching around him Tebow doesn't. Plus he changed his throwing motion while in junior college and while benched..

Tebow will never be able to be a consistent passer. His muscle memory will take over and he will struggle.

Joe Montana and Harbough said he never even should have messed with his motion. Mike Holmgren said the same..

He can be an effective player in this league....just not as an everyday QB.

And make no mistake...what he did in college, makes no difference in the NFL.

How would you know.. you didn't watch him in college.. many great coaches and players have said otherwise..

Tebow has outplayed Orton who is a seasoned vet. The only time you critics have been able to crow is after facing a tough D and where Tebow's coaches F'ed up..

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 06:43 PM
He really is NOT.

A system QB is a QB who even in that system couldn't be successful in the NFL.

All QBs are system QBs. If You put Brady in another system where he got ht more and didn't have all those yards after the catch he would be a totally different QB. Imagine Brady without a decent line around him.. he'd be dead meat.. Look at cassel in that same system..




Yes they do.. why do you think McD drafted Tebow.. Belichick devised his offensive system based on Urban Meyer's.



Cam Newton is doing it.. he just has the talent and coaching around him Tebow doesn't. Plus he changed his throwing motion while in junior college and while benched..



Joe Montana and Harbough said he never even should have messed with his motion. Mike Holmgren said the same..



How would you know.. you didn't watch him in college.. many great coaches and players have said otherwise..

Tebow has outplayed Orton who is a seasoned vet. The only time you critics have been able to crow is after facing a tough D and where Tebow's coaches F'ed up..


1. The Patriots do not run the spread option offense...I assure you.

2. Cam Newton is not running the spread option offense...I assure you.

3. Cam Newton could ALWAYS throw the ball and was primarily a passer in high school.

4. Tebow's motion IS the same as it was in college. His muscle memory takes over and his mechanics break down. He simply is not a passing QB.

5. I didnt' watch him in college? Okay...but...I did watch him in college.

It seems like anytime Tebow plays poorly, you immediately blame his coaches, offensive line, running backs and/or receivers. Why is it never Tebow's fault?

And explain something....what is your fascination with Tebow?

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 07:00 PM
1. The Patriots do not run the spread option offense...I assure you.

They don't use the option run game but they use elements from Urban Meyers offense.. again.. why do you think McD drafted Tebow. This just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

2. Cam Newton is not running the spread option offense...I assure you.

He's running the option and playing in shotgun.. do I need to show you the video? lol

3. Cam Newton could ALWAYS throw the ball and was primarily a passer in high school.

LOL So highs school matters but college doesn't? LMFAO The guy was in junior college while Tebow was dominating the SEC for 3 years with his arm.

Florida just got beat by Auburn without Cam..

4. Tebow's motion IS the same as it was in college. His muscle memory takes over and his mechanics break down. He simply is not a passing QB.

This is juts not true.. of course there are going to be times when he regresses.. but it's obvious how hard he has been working on it and you can see the improvements he has made. Again.. carrying his awful coaches and team sure doesn't help. Especially after Orton and those same coaches drove the team into the ground.

5. I didnt' watch him in college? Okay...but...I did watch him in college.

Obviously you didn't because you have no idea what you are talking about.

It seems like anytime Tebow plays poorly, you immediately blame his coaches, offensive line, running backs and/or receivers. Why is it never Tebow's fault?

Because Tebow is a rookie.. and instead of making things easier his coaches are making things ten times harder than they have to be...

And explain something....what is your fascination with Tebow?

I think he is a great great player.. and it pisses me off that a great player could be ruined because of small mindedness and jealousy...

See.. I am the opposite of most.. I think a different player is GREAT.. I value uniqueness.. it's the spice of life.

McDman
11-02-2011, 07:02 PM
He really is NOT.

A system QB is a QB who even in that system couldn't be successful in the NFL.

All QBs are system QBs. If You put Brady in another system where he got ht more and didn't have all those yards after the catch he would be a totally different QB. Imagine Brady without a decent line around him.. he'd be dead meat.. Look at cassel in that same system..




Yes they do.. why do you think McD drafted Tebow.. Belichick devised his offensive system based on Urban Meyer's.



Cam Newton is doing it.. he just has the talent and coaching around him Tebow doesn't. Plus he changed his throwing motion while in junior college and while benched..



Joe Montana and Harbough said he never even should have messed with his motion. Mike Holmgren said the same..



How would you know.. you didn't watch him in college.. many great coaches and players have said otherwise..

Tebow has outplayed Orton who is a seasoned vet. The only time you critics have been able to crow is after facing a tough D and where Tebow's coaches F'ed up..

A system QB is a QB who can only be successful in a certain system.

You keep talking about how our game plan is only hurting Tebow, so does that not mean he can only be successful with certain play calls? Kind of sounds like a system QB to me.

He has not outplayed Orton, he has played like sh1t. He had five good minute out of 120.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 07:19 PM
A system QB is a QB who can only be successful in a certain system.

That isn't the meaning of a system QB coming out of college.. the meaning for a QB coming out of college is that the Qb couldn't be successful even in the same system in the NFL.

Otherwise then why wouldn't you just run that system in the NFL?

You keep talking about how our game plan is only hurting Tebow, so does that not mean he can only be successful with certain play calls? Kind of sounds like a system QB to me.

By that definition there are many system QBs in the NFL.. the only difference eis that Tebow's system isn't run widely in the NFL. That's the coaches fault not Tebow.. the problem is there are no other QBs besides Tebow and maybe Newton hat can be successful i n the NFL in that system. Which is why it isn't widely run. I don't think any other coach could be as successful with Brady either.

He has not outplayed Orton, he has played like sh1t. He had five good minute out of 120.

Tebow outplayed Orton in the same F'ing game you idiot.. lol

Let's see how Tebow does against Detroit without Lloyd or McGahee in Fox's offense.. there's a reason why Fox benched Orton.. he knew he'd get killed against those Ds. he;s probably waiting to get through these tough Ds to put Orton back in..

Look at Orton's numbers.. he was worse than Tebow against the Chargers..

Fedaykin
11-02-2011, 07:41 PM
Favre also doesn't have the athleticism/durability Tebow does.. this is what I think all Qbs are missing in this era.

Hilarious! Favre doesn't have athleticism and durability?

To rephrase, the guy QB that currently holds the record for both career length and consecutive starts doesn't have durability?

Wow you are king of the idiots aren't you?

Fedaykin
11-02-2011, 07:43 PM
I don't like Favre, but the previous year he did get to the NFC championship game. Thread's a diss to a HOF guy. Inadvertently it does bring up the irony that the only time Favre won a championship, he played in the WC system and made the plays Holmgren wanted and stopped the gunslinger act.

I was only talking about his last year. He was clearly done -- but that doesn't mean his other 19 years weren't good.

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 07:51 PM
They don't use the option run game but they use elements from Urban Meyers offense.. again.. why do you think McD drafted Tebow. This just shows you have no idea what you are talking about.



He's running the option and playing in shotgun.. do I need to show you the video? lol



LOL So highs school matters but college doesn't? LMFAO The guy was in junior college while Tebow was dominating the SEC for 3 years with his arm.

Florida just got beat by Auburn without Cam..



This is juts not true.. of course there are going to be times when he regresses.. but it's obvious how hard he has been working on it and you can see the improvements he has made. Again.. carrying his awful coaches and team sure doesn't help. Especially after Orton and those same coaches drove the team into the ground.



Obviously you didn't because you have no idea what you are talking about.



Because Tebow is a rookie.. and instead of making things easier his coaches are making things ten times harder than they have to be...



I think he is a great great player.. and it pisses me off that a great player could be ruined because of small mindedness and jealousy...

See.. I am the opposite of most.. I think a different player is GREAT.. I value uniqueness.. it's the spice of life.


1. The Urban Meyer offense is entirely predicated on the option…that's why they call it the spread OPTION offense. Without the option portion….it's nothing special.

2. Cam, like Tebow has run SOME plays using spread option principles, but they have been few and far between. Neither offense can be considered a spread option attack.

3. My point about Newton is that he could ALWAYS throw the football and throw it well. He was never a project the way Tebow is a project.

4. What is your point about Auburn beating Florida?

5. Tebow's motion is nearly exactly the same now as it was in college. That is a fact. Look at the play that Tebow fumbled after getting hawked from behind. The delivery took forever.

6. I watched every single game Tebow was televised in college. He was fun to watch…especially playing against college defenses with basically a pro farm team.

7. Tebow is not a rookie. He is a 2nd year veteran.

8. He may be a great football player….but he's not a great quarterback. He does have a place in this league, but it's not under center full time.

Tebow flourished in college because of the offense he played in and because of the talent he was surrounded by in that offense. His strengths were his athletic ability, toughness and leadership. His weaknesses were with his passing game and more specifically his footwork and throwing motion.

The offense Florida ran is the definition of a college offense. It cannot be run at the NFL level. Not when you are paying QB's million upon millions of dollars to get injured by running a run heavy option game vs. NFL defenders who are the best athletes on Earth.

Even though Mr. Newton runs a few plays a game that loosely resemble the spread option, he butters his bread by throwing the football and doing it well. Most of his runs have come on scramble drills as well.

You will see, as this year continues that Tebow simply isn't the long term answer in Denver. He will continue to throw balls wildly out of bounds and continue to miss wide open WR's. We will continue to turn the ball over and Denver's offense will continue to play poorly.

There is a reason why Denver doesn't throw the ball all that much with Tebow early on….the coaches are terrified of him throwing the ball and therefore don't let him do it. And when the do let him throw the ball, he performs poorly.

I liked Tebow in college and thought he had a hell of a career. His place simply put isn't as a starting QB. It's as a QB/Wildcat player inside the 10.

You can post on here all you want about how everyone is against Tebow and screwing up his career, but at the end of the day….the kid just isn't good enough.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 08:17 PM
1. The Urban Meyer offense is entirely predicated on the option…that's why they call it the spread OPTION offense. Without the option portion….it's nothing special.

No it isn't.. if it was then Meyer never would have made Brantley Tebow's replacement...

2. Cam, like Tebow has run SOME plays using spread option principles, but they have been few and far between. Neither offense can be considered a spread option attack.

It doesn't have to be that much of an option offense.. just more than Fox is doing. If Tebow had talent around him it would be even less. Or if he had a training camp or some practices or if they didn't screw up his motion..

3. My point about Newton is that he could ALWAYS throw the football and throw it well. He was never a project the way Tebow is a project.

This is absurd.. if this was true he wouldn't have been playing in junior college or been behind John Brantley AND Tebow.. He even ran much more than Tebow his final year and had better runners around him and a better team and line.

4. What is your point about Auburn beating Florida?

The point is Cam was on a better team and that Florida wasn't as talented as everyone says..

5. Tebow's motion is nearly exactly the same now as it was in college. That is a fact. Look at the play that Tebow fumbled after getting hawked from behind. The delivery took forever.

Many people have said they see the difference this season.. like I said though.. of course it is going to breakdown sometimes.. especially when the team is falling apart and his is being miscoached.. You act like Tebow has had no success in the NFL.

6. I watched every single game Tebow was televised in college. He was fun to watch…especially playing against college defenses with basically a pro farm team.

A pro farm team that was beaten every time by Auburn? Cam played on a better team.

If his team is so talented then why do they suck without him?

7. Tebow is not a rookie. He is a 2nd year veteran.

Yes he is a rookie because he hasn't played. consistently as a starter.

8. He may be a great football player….but he's not a great quarterback. He does have a place in this league, but it's not under center full time.

Then why did he outplay Orton?

Tebow flourished in college because of the offense he played in and because of the talent he was surrounded by in that offense. His strengths were his athletic ability, toughness and leadership. His weaknesses were with his passing game and more specifically his footwork and throwing motion.

If Tebow couldn't pass then why didn't Florida just put a runner in at Qb and dominate.. Tebow isn't even that great of a runner. If he couldn't pass there would be no way he could run like that.

I think if they had left all his mechanics alone he would be much better.. even in a offense he isn't familiar with. If they didn't mess with his mechanics AND let him play in his style of offense i think he would look great.

The offense Florida ran is the definition of a college offense. It cannot be run at the NFL level. Not when you are paying QB's million upon millions of dollars to get injured by running a run heavy option game vs. NFL defenders who are the best athletes on Earth.

As I said.. he doesn't need to run it that much.. especially if he had a decent team built around him. And you make a huge mistake.. because pocket passers are in even more danger in this era than running with Tebow's ability. If they had a decent pass game around him he wouldn't even need to run much.

Even though Mr. Newton runs a few plays a game that loosely resemble the spread option, he butters his bread by throwing the football and doing it well. Most of his runs have come on scramble drills as well.

Because he has great players and coaches around him.. and no Fox..

You will see, as this year continues that Tebow simply isn't the long term answer in Denver. He will continue to throw balls wildly out of bounds and continue to miss wide open WR's. We will continue to turn the ball over and Denver's offense will continue to play poorly.

Are you talks about "looks" pr production.. I don't care what Tebow's play looks like.. but if his coaches keep using him so poorly he will play poorly.. but like I said.. he will likely end up somewhere else and used properly and will dominate.

There is a reason why Denver doesn't throw the ball all that much with Tebow early on….the coaches are terrified of him throwing the ball and therefore don't let him do it. And when the do let him throw the ball, he performs poorly.

I think they are creating their own problems. Fox doesn't believe his Qb is good so he plays conservatively and then it comes true.. if he believed in Tebow and let him play his way he would play well.. like Cam. There is history of this Fox's whole career.. this is why he is a loser.

I liked Tebow in college and thought he had a hell of a career. His place simply put isn't as a starting QB. It's as a QB/Wildcat player inside the 10.

You are just small minded IMO. You don't realize that the game is changing.. Let's put it this way,, if Tebow had been saddled with a coach like Fox in college he never would have had the success in college either. There is no reason Tebow can't be successful in the NFL doing the same. he has proven it already.

You can post on here all you want about how everyone is against Tebow and screwing up his career, but at the end of the day….the kid just isn't good enough.

Then why has he already outplayed Orton even thrown into a horrible situation? doesn't add up.. even wit horrible coaching. You saw Tebow's passing ability in that first drive against Detroit.. how can you deny this? If the coaches had maintained the same style he would have been fine..

So why didn't they? Fox is either too worried about protecting his defense. OR he is trying to sabotage Tebow.. or he is just too inept to figure out how to do it the whole game..

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 09:57 PM
No it isn't.. if it was then Meyer never would have made Brantley Tebow's replacement...



It doesn't have to be that much of an option offense.. just more than Fox is doing. If Tebow had talent around him it would be even less. Or if he had a training camp or some practices or if they didn't screw up his motion..



This is absurd.. if this was true he wouldn't have been playing in junior college or been behind John Brantley AND Tebow.. He even ran much more than Tebow his final year and had better runners around him and a better team and line.



The point is Cam was on a better team and that Florida wasn't as talented as everyone says..



Many people have said they see the difference this season.. like I said though.. of course it is going to breakdown sometimes.. especially when the team is falling apart and his is being miscoached.. You act like Tebow has had no success in the NFL.



A pro farm team that was beaten every time by Auburn? Cam played on a better team.

If his team is so talented then why do they suck without him?



Yes he is a rookie because he hasn't played. consistently as a starter.



Then why did he outplay Orton?



If Tebow couldn't pass then why didn't Florida just put a runner in at Qb and dominate.. Tebow isn't even that great of a runner. If he couldn't pass there would be no way he could run like that.

I think if they had left all his mechanics alone he would be much better.. even in a offense he isn't familiar with. If they didn't mess with his mechanics AND let him play in his style of offense i think he would look great.



As I said.. he doesn't need to run it that much.. especially if he had a decent team built around him. And you make a huge mistake.. because pocket passers are in even more danger in this era than running with Tebow's ability. If they had a decent pass game around him he wouldn't even need to run much.



Because he has great players and coaches around him.. and no Fox..



Are you talks about "looks" pr production.. I don't care what Tebow's play looks like.. but if his coaches keep using him so poorly he will play poorly.. but like I said.. he will likely end up somewhere else and used properly and will dominate.



I think they are creating their own problems. Fox doesn't believe his Qb is good so he plays conservatively and then it comes true.. if he believed in Tebow and let him play his way he would play well.. like Cam. There is history of this Fox's whole career.. this is why he is a loser.



You are just small minded IMO. You don't realize that the game is changing.. Let's put it this way,, if Tebow had been saddled with a coach like Fox in college he never would have had the success in college either. There is no reason Tebow can't be successful in the NFL doing the same. he has proven it already.



Then why has he already outplayed Orton even thrown into a horrible situation? doesn't add up.. even wit horrible coaching. You saw Tebow's passing ability in that first drive against Detroit.. how can you deny this? If the coaches had maintained the same style he would have been fine..

So why didn't they? Fox is either too worried about protecting his defense. OR he is trying to sabotage Tebow.. or he is just too inept to figure out how to do it the whole game..


1. Brantley was one of three QB's Meyer used after Tebow. And if Newton didn't get suspended and transfer he would have slid right into that spot. At Bowling Green and Utah….Meyer ran the spread option….it's what he is known for.

2. Who screwed up his motion? It's the same.

3. LOL….you can say it's absurd all you want. Newton is and always was a more gifted passer than Tebow. And you keep making the mistake that Newton couldn't beat out Brantley….NEWTON WAS SUSPENDED and transferred as a result. He played in junior college because he had terrible grades and was caught cheating at Florida.

4. Auburn sucks this year…so does Florida…still not sure what your point is…

5. Tebow has had very little success in the NFL. he is 0-3 vs. teams with winning records and 2-0 vs. teams with losing records. Not impressive.

6. You do realize that Urban Meyer no longer coaches Florida, right? Hmmmm….

7. Tebow is in his 2nd year. By definition he is not a rookie. He also started games his rookie year.

8. My dog could outplay Orton…and guess what…he really hasn't out performed Orton either. Orton hits just under 60% of his passes while Tebow hit's under 50%. Their passer ratings are very similar. And the longer Tebow plays, the lower that number will go.

9. You simply don't know much about the spread option. The run opens up the pass, not the other way around. Florida DOMINATED on the ground and did so running Tebow. You said Tebow isn't a good runner…he owns the SEC rushing TD record beating out Hershel Walker. The whole offense was based off Tebow's ability to run. What that did was open up playaction passing and resulted in wide open pass catchers….players there were wide open. He also threw a TON of screen passes and shovel passes…

10. Newton has great players around him…really? Is that why they have a losing record?

11. Tim Tebow will NEVER dominate the NFL with any combination of teams, players and coaches in the NFL….he simply can't throw the football.

12. I honestly think Tebow is getting played right now because it's popular…and because it sells tickets. I think Fox knows he's bad, but fan pressure is forcing his hand.

13. You are totally right about Tebow being coached by Fox in College. Fox knows nothing about the spread option and if Tebow played under him, he wouldn't have performed the same way. But that should tell you that Tebow is a system QB….a QB that can only perform in ONE system. It's the same reason Eric Crouch, Tony Rice, Darrion Haggan and Tommy Frazier never made it in the NFL…..they were all system QB's.

14. Let's say that Fox hires Rich Rodriquez, Urban Meyer, Chip Kelly and Bill Snyder tomorrow and instal a full blown spread option attack. What do you think the results would be?

I believe they would be disastrous. The defenders in the NFL are too big, too strong and too fast to be fooled by this very simple, very gimmicky offense. Tebow would be injured within 3 games and your backup would be Quinn and Orton….left to run this offense.

The professional game will NEVER allow their QB's to carry the ball 20+ per game when they are the highest paid players in the game.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 10:33 PM
1. Brantley was one of three QB's Meyer used after Tebow. And if Newton didn't get suspended and transfer he would have slid right into that spot. At Bowling Green and Utah….Meyer ran the spread option….it's what he is known for.

Again.. if you are running the option in the SEC why would you use Brantley when you have much better runners available? They ran the option very little with Leak and Brantley in the SEC.

And Cam would NOT have slid in ahead of Brantley. You have bought the BS story that Cma left because of supposed issues he had..he left because he couldn't beat Brantley as Tebow's backup. Cam;s own Dad said the same thing in an article at the time.

It always crack me up when people say Florida would let cam go because of the issues he supposedly had and yet Auburn supposedly paid him a hundred grand to play there. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

The reason Cam left and the reason Florida used Brantley instead of a better athlete were one and the same.. cam could not handle Florida's pass heavy offense. Tebow would have never been able to run in the SEC as a QB if he couldn't pass so well. The only reason cam was so successful at Auburn was because they had a offense more suited to a running QB than Florida. Florida had no primary runners.. Tebow filled that role himself. Which is why auburn beat Floirda just a couple weeks ago. Same runners now as when Tebow was there. Did you see what happened to FLorida's runners and QB against LSU? cam would have gotten crushed just as bad. he is not the passer or runner Tebow is. Cam had an incredible line last seaosn too.. they all graduated last year. Cam has all the same advantages eve now at Carolina..

2. Who screwed up his motion? It's the same.

This is just BS.. people have said repeatedly his motion looks much better this season.. of course there are times when it breaks down.. but that is why it screws him up.. he's fighting his instincts in game..

4. Auburn sucks this year…so does Florida…still not sure what your point is…

Aurbunr beat Florida this year and even when Tebow was there.. the point is Cam was being carried by that team not the other way around. Cam is even benefiting without Fox coaching there.. that's why the Panthers and Tebow are so underrated.. because of Fox.

5. Tebow has had very little success in the NFL. he is 0-3 vs. teams with winning records and 2-0 vs. teams with losing records. Not impressive.

Tebow has half as many road wins right now as Orton had over the past 28 games..

6. You do realize that Urban Meyer no longer coaches Florida, right? Hmmmm….

What is this in response to?

7. Tebow is in his 2nd year. By definition he is not a rookie. He also started games his rookie year.

Semantics.. He's essentially a rookie. What sidderence does it make though? He has no game experience.. and Fox has a different system than McD..

8. My dog could outplay Orton…and guess what…he really hasn't out performed Orton either. Orton hits just under 60% of his passes while Tebow hit's under 50%. Their passer ratings are very similar. And the longer Tebow plays, the lower that number will go.


Tebow had a better YPA than Orton.. scored more points than Orton against the same opponents.. Even outplayed Orton dramatically in the very same game. Tebow lost the 2 best players Orton had.

9. You simply don't know much about the spread option. The run opens up the pass, not the other way around. Florida DOMINATED on the ground and did so running Tebow.

So then why didn't they get another supposed runner that couldn't pass? Florida can't get talent?

You said Tebow isn't a good runner…he owns the SEC rushing TD record beating out Hershel Walker. The whole offense was based off Tebow's ability to run. What that did was open up playaction passing and resulted in wide open pass catchers….players there were wide open. He also threw a TON of screen passes and shovel passes…

You don't understand football.. you think Tebow was the only guy who could run in the SEC? Why didn't anyone run the spread option before then if it was so easy? LOL

What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. no one even considers this.. they said Meyers system wouldn't even work in the SEC.. and without Tebow it doesn't.. so if that is the case what made him special?

If Meyer ran so many screens why cant Fox do the same?

10. Newton has great players around him…really? Is that why they have a losing record?

Yes.. because cam isn't very good.. if Tebow was there he would have less turnovers and more wins.. have you seen Cam's line? The guy never gets touched.. and every pass play the guy they target is open because Steve Smith is so dominant and they even have great right ends and runners.

11. Tim Tebow will NEVER dominate the NFL with any combination of teams, players and coaches in the NFL….he simply can't throw the football.

The how do you explain him making so many great throws at time.s. hell.. Tebow and Brandon Lloyd had more highlight plays in Tebow's few games than in Orton's entire career as a Bronco..

12. I honestly think Tebow is getting played right now because it's popular…and because it sells tickets. I think Fox knows he's bad, but fan pressure is forcing his hand.

So if he is so bad and Fox is so smart then why did Tebow outplay Orton?

13. You are totally right about Tebow being coached by Fox in College. Fox knows nothing about the spread option and if Tebow played under him, he wouldn't have performed the same way. But that should tell you that Tebow is a system QB….a QB that can only perform in ONE system. It's the same reason Eric Crouch, Tony Rice, Darrion Haggan and Tommy Frazier never made it in the NFL…..they were all system QB's.

You don;'t get it though dude.. that is the difference.. those guys couldn't do in the NFL what they did in college.. THAT is why they are system QBs in COLLEGE.. but Tebow could do it in the NFL if he had a decent coach. that is why McD drafted him. Tebow weighs 20-40lbs more than those guys you list in college.. Those guys could not do what Tebow did in this era in the SEC. If he could colleges would have other Tebow.. Florida was not more talented than other teams. Tebow was the difference.

14. Let's say that Fox hires Rich Rodriquez, Urban Meyer, Chip Kelly and Bill Snyder tomorrow and instal a full blown spread option attack. What do you think the results would be?

As I said.. it doesn't need to be full blown.. and Tebow has already shown what it can do even run horribly with no talent around him. Cam is doing the same thing.. the differences aren't even that great. They are very subtle. Fox either has no clue or some other agenda..

I believe they would be disastrous. The defenders in the NFL are too big, too strong and too fast to be fooled by this very simple, very gimmicky offense. Tebow would be injured within 3 games and your backup would be Quinn and Orton….left to run this offense.

It's a moot point.. he doesn't need to run that much. He has done it already without running. And as I said it wasn't Tebow's running that made him so good. It was his ability to pass and run. He just isn't comfortable in a pro style offense yet. You need to work it in slowly.. Teams KNOW he isn't.. which is why it is so stupid to force him to do it when teams know it.. and not let Tebow play to his strengths.

The professional game will NEVER allow their QB's to carry the ball 20+ per game when they are the highest paid players in the game.

Again.. he doesn't have to.. he just has to run more than whatever QB he faces.. considering he is the best running QB - best combination of speed and durability.. why couldn't he. That is his advantage over other Qbs and they have no way to match it. It's Tebow's incredible versatility that makes him so great and Fox isn't utilizing it at all.. it's being wasted. He couldn't even use Tebow in certain packages. How much was he trying to win? Why would he not play him at all then play him all of a sudden?

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 11:03 PM
Leak ran the spread option as did Brantley. The difference was Leak and Brantley had the "read" taken away from them and it was called on the sideline…like any normal play. This gives the defense the illusion that they are playing against the option.

You are insane about Newton…he would have easily surpassed Brantley if he could read a book…

Cam was a freshman who did nothing right off the field. He made his bed and was booted. He lit it up in JC and accepted money to play. Pretty simple. Florida let him go as a freshman….they had Tebow. All was right with the world. Meyer thought he was doing the right thing…can't blame him.

Whatever….Tebow's motion is terrible. Show me a link where one person says it's greatly improved.

LOL…Auburn is 6-3 currently without Newton. Last year they went undefeated and Newton won the Heisman putting up Tebow like numbers. The year before Auburn had Newton they went 8-5….yet Auburn carried Newton?

Tebow has no game experience? He's played in 14 games in the two years he's been in the league. At some point Tebow has to share the responsibility regarding HIS poor performance.

The spread option hasn't been around for a long time. It's VERY new in terms of offensive philosophy. That's why not many teams ran it in the SEC. Meyer brought it to the SEC and it's spread to Auburn, Mississippi State and a few others.

LOL….Cam Newton isn't very good? He's ranked 2nd in the NFL is passing yards and is hitting over 60% of his passes. He is dominating the position he plays.

Did you REALLY just ask me why Tebow made so many great passes? Really?
It's truly unbelievable how blind you are.

Tebow is not outperforming Orton…not sure where you are getting that.

McDaniels drafted Tebow…and a bunch of other terrible players. Look at his drafting history. PS. McDaniels was fired for running this franchise into the ground.

You simply don't get it…Tebow's strength is his legs…not his arm. The whole reason Tebow was any good in college was because of:

A. The offense that he ran
B. The fact that he could run

You keep saying Tebow is versatile. He's not. He can run it…he just can't throw.

McDman
11-02-2011, 11:04 PM
Leak ran the spread option as did Brantley. The difference was Leak and Brantley had the "read" taken away from them and it was called on the sideline…like any normal play. This gives the defense the illusion that they are playing against the option.

You are insane about Newton…he would have easily surpassed Brantley if he could read a book…

Cam was a freshman who did nothing right off the field. He made his bed and was booted. He lit it up in JC and accepted money to play. Pretty simple. Florida let him go as a freshman….they had Tebow. All was right with the world. Meyer thought he was doing the right thing…can't blame him.

Whatever….Tebow's motion is terrible. Show me a link where one person says it's greatly improved.

LOL…Auburn is 6-3 currently without Newton. Last year they went undefeated and Newton won the Heisman putting up Tebow like numbers. The year before Auburn had Newton they went 8-5….yet Auburn carried Newton?

Tebow has no game experience? He's played in 14 games in the two years he's been in the league. At some point Tebow has to share the responsibility regarding HIS poor performance.

The spread option hasn't been around for a long time. It's VERY new in terms of offensive philosophy. That's why not many teams ran it in the SEC. Meyer brought it to the SEC and it's spread to Auburn, Mississippi State and a few others.

LOL….Cam Newton isn't very good? He's ranked 2nd in the NFL is passing yards and is hitting over 60% of his passes. He is dominating the position he plays.

Did you REALLY just ask me why Tebow made so many great passes? Really?
It's truly unbelievable how blind you are.

Tebow is not outperforming Orton…not sure where you are getting that.

McDaniels drafted Tebow…and a bunch of other terrible players. Look at his drafting history. PS. McDaniels was fired for running this franchise into the ground.

You simply don't get it…Tebow's strength is his legs…not his arm. The whole reason Tebow was any good in college was because of:

A. The offense that he ran
B. The fact that he could run

You keep saying Tebow is versatile. He's not. He can run it…he just can't throw.

Just stop, man. It's not worth it.

Miss I.
11-02-2011, 11:05 PM
Just stop, man. It's not worth it.

it is a little like talking to a box of rocks, though you know at least rocks have a use. ;D

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 11:14 PM
it is a little like talking to a box of rocks, though you know at least rocks have a use. ;D

I know I shouldn't be feeding the troll….but I just can't believe how wrong he is about so many things….literally everything he says is wrong.

Miss I.
11-02-2011, 11:29 PM
I know I shouldn't be feeding the troll….but I just can't believe how wrong he is about so many things….literally everything he says is wrong.

No, I get why you are debating with him and I have to admit I find your posts pretty informative and a stark contrast to the "I know you are, but what am I" responses you are getting. Thing is, from these and other posts it's pretty clear he is either very young or a Gator fan or both. He even stated on another thread he hopes Tebow succeeds somewhere else if we let him go and that he wouldn't be a Bronco fan anymore and he'd laugh at our failures. This does not a Bronco fan make. I get he loves Tebow, I hope Tebow gets it together too because I do want my team to succeed and if Tebow succeeds that would help that endeavor. But Tebow is not greater than the sum of the parts, he is just one part of it. It's fruitless to argue though because if you don't entirely agree that Tebow is the best football player or you point out any issues, even if you clearly like the guy as a player and a person, you must then be projecting, witch hunting or still in the early phases of the 3 truths or some such thing. Oh well, it's funny to read sometimes.

StugotsIII
11-02-2011, 11:42 PM
No, I get why you are debating with him and I have to admit I find your posts pretty informative and a stark contrast to the "I know you are, but what am I" responses you are getting. Thing is, from these and other posts it's pretty clear he is either very young or a Gator fan or both. He even stated on another thread he hopes Tebow succeeds somewhere else if we let him go and that he wouldn't be a Bronco fan anymore and he'd laugh at our failures. This does not a Bronco fan make. I get he loves Tebow, I hope Tebow gets it together too because I do want my team to succeed and if Tebow succeeds that would help that endeavor. But Tebow is not greater than the sum of the parts, he is just one part of it. It's fruitless to argue though because if you don't entirely agree that Tebow is the best football player or you point out any issues, even if you clearly like the guy as a player and a person, you must then be projecting, witch hunting or still in the early phases of the 3 truths or some such thing. Oh well, it's funny to read sometimes.

I wish Tebow put up the numbers he did in college:

Sophomore season: 55 touchdowns (rushing/passing)
Junior season: 42 touchdowns (rushing/passing)

Hell, Alex Smith under Urban Meyer at Utah put up 42 TD's combined his last year there.

That's video game numbers….but sometimes…hell…often times it just doesn't translate at the next level.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 11:44 PM
Leak ran the spread option as did Brantley. The difference was Leak and Brantley had the "read" taken away from them and it was called on the sideline…like any normal play. This gives the defense the illusion that they are playing against the option.

So why run it at all then if your QB isn't much of a threat to run?

You are insane about Newton…he would have easily surpassed Brantley if he could read a book…

No he wouldn't.. because he couldn't PASS.

Again.. you didn't answer my question.. if Tebow wasn't a great passer then why couldn't any team put a great runner on their team and dominate? Why couldn't they replace Tebow when he left?

Cam was a freshman who did nothing right off the field. He made his bed and was booted. He lit it up in JC and accepted money to play. Pretty simple. Florida let him go as a freshman….they had Tebow. All was right with the world. Meyer thought he was doing the right thing…can't blame him.

Do you want to bet me? I can post the article if you like.. Cam Newton;s dad says straight up Cam wasn't the backup. You think Auburn would give this guy the world with his record but Florida is going to let this supposed gof walk? They didn't even use Cam in games with Tebow.. you claim the NFL shouldn't risk their Qbs but Florida is going to leave this supposed god on the bench?

Who has better runners on their team minus Tebow and Cam? Auburn or Florida? This is even with Auburn losing their entire team of seniors the year before.

Whatever….Tebow's motion is terrible. Show me a link where one person says it's greatly improved.

People have been saying it all over the boards.. i was just in the last game where it was a supposed issue. Remember when Miami's QB got the ball taken away just like Tebow? Is his motion bad too?

…Auburn is 6-3 currently without Newton.

Again.. Auburn lost their whole team full of seniors last year.. they lost Fairley too.. It's their D that has really suffered not their O.. AND they beat Florida..

Auburn played Alabama better the year before cam got there than Florida played them when Tebow was still there!

Last year they went undefeated and Newton won the Heisman putting up Tebow like numbers. The year before Auburn had Newton they went 8-5….yet Auburn carried Newton?

8-5 was what Florida did the year after Tebow left..

Tebow has no game experience? He's played in 14 games in the two years he's been in the league. At some point Tebow has to share the responsibility regarding HIS poor performance.

By that logic most players on the Broncos should be able to play QB too.. since they played in that many games or more..

The spread option hasn't been around for a long time. It's VERY new in terms of offensive philosophy. That's why not many teams ran it in the SEC. Meyer brought it to the SEC and it's spread to Auburn, Mississippi State and a few others.

If it's so new then how do you know it ca't work in the NFL?

….Cam Newton isn't very good? He's ranked 2nd in the NFL is passing yards and is hitting over 60% of his passes. He is dominating the position he plays.

Orton put up Dan Marino-esque numbers last season.. what's your point? So when Cam dominates it;s all him. but when Tebow dominates his team is carrying him. lol Typical Tebow double standard..

Did you REALLY just ask me why Tebow made so many great passes? Really?
It's truly unbelievable how blind you are.

He has mad great passes.. look at the passes he made to win in Miami.. if he can do that how can you deny he can pass?

Tebow is not outperforming Orton…not sure where you are getting that.

Last season he face two teams Orton faced.. and he scored more points against those same teams than Orton did. And did it in far worse circumstances.

McDaniels drafted Tebow…and a bunch of other terrible players. Look at his drafting history. PS. McDaniels was fired for running this franchise into the ground.

I thought he was fired because of spygate? Look at the Pats team.. do you see a ton of talent? McD was building following the same pattern. was Matt Cassel or Brady high draft picks? He got Tebow for his intangibles like Brady and because he fit in that system..

You simply don't get it…Tebow's strength is his legs…not his arm. The whole reason Tebow was any good in college was because of:

A. The offense that he ran
B. The fact that he could run

So again.. why couldn't they replace him.. are you saying Tebow is an unstoppable runner? Would Cam Newton have won 3 or 4 championships in Tebow's position?

Yet Florida wouldn't play him and let him go? lol '

None of this makes any sense man..

You keep saying Tebow is versatile. He's not. He can run it…he just can't throw.

If he couldn't pass at an extremely high level he never would have been able to dominate in college against SEC D.

If he was juts a runner EVERYONE would be running BETTER runners than Tebow and racking up Heismans and championships..

If Tebow was that great of a runner he would be being used as a running back by the Broncos WITH Orton..

You juts don't seem to understand how important coaching is.. Why do you think Fox can't make ANY Qb look good... He even made Orton look MUCH crappier than he did last season.

MacGruder
11-02-2011, 11:46 PM
No, I get why you are debating with him and I have to admit I find your posts pretty informative and a stark contrast to the "I know you are, but what am I" responses you are getting. Thing is, from these and other posts it's pretty clear he is either very young or a Gator fan or both. He even stated on another thread he hopes Tebow succeeds somewhere else if we let him go and that he wouldn't be a Bronco fan anymore and he'd laugh at our failures. This does not a Bronco fan make. I get he loves Tebow, I hope Tebow gets it together too because I do want my team to succeed and if Tebow succeeds that would help that endeavor. But Tebow is not greater than the sum of the parts, he is just one part of it. It's fruitless to argue though because if you don't entirely agree that Tebow is the best football player or you point out any issues, even if you clearly like the guy as a player and a person, you must then be projecting, witch hunting or still in the early phases of the 3 truths or some such thing. Oh well, it's funny to read sometimes.

MissI negged me once because I said I didn't want Orton to have fluke wins because it would prolong his sucking on this team..

Do you neg people who say "Suck for Luck? too?

broncocalijohn
11-02-2011, 11:50 PM
Just stop, man. It's not worth it.

I agree. Between quoting the queef, you are fighting with an imbecile. I really believe MacGruder is an act. I cannot imagine anyone being that dumb, bull****ter,hypocrite and a brick all in one poster. He is a fake. Ignore him and you will feel better.

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 12:00 AM
I agree. Between quoting the queef, you are fighting with an imbecile. I really believe MacGruder is an act. I cannot imagine anyone being that dumb, bull****ter,hypocrite and a brick all in one poster. He is a fake. Ignore him and you will feel better.

You're projecting...

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 12:24 AM
Meyer inherited Leak….

Cam Newton was a good passer in high school, college and has proven this trend in the NFL. The dude can flat out throw the ball.

They couldn't replace Tebow because Newton…who was the Tebow replacement had moved on. Meyer, who coached Florida for one season after Tebow left was forced to use 3 different QB's to try and replace Tebow and Newton. And after Meyer left, the new regime scraped the spread option for a pro style Charlie Weiss lead attack.

The three QB's Florida used for much of last year:

John Brantley
Jordan Reed
Trey Burton

All three players played much of the season…playing to their particular strengths.

LOL….you are taking Newton's dads word for it? The guy that was the middle man between Auburn and Cam's money? LOL. Newton was suspended…it's a fact.

Florida cut their ties to Newton because he was a bad kid…true story. I'm not sure why you don't believe me…but it's a fact. And yes…Auburn paid for Newton to play there…among other players.

This year's Florida and Auburn running backs:

Florida:

Rainey: 526
Demps: 336…averages over 7 yards per carry
Gillislee: 258…averages over 7 yards per carry

Auburn:

Dyer: 986 yards…averages 5.3 yards per carry…186 carries

I would say it's a wash…but then again, Auburn runs the spread option still and is VERY run heavy without Newton. I'd give the slight edge to Dyer.

Auburns offense:

2011: Ranked 73rd (without Newton)
2010: Ranked 7th (with Newton)

Auburns defense:

2011: Ranked 73rd
2010: Ranked 53rd

As you can see….Newton has had a bigger impact on the offense than Fairly had on the defense. Auburn was not known for their defense last year. Fact.

I know the spread option can't work because financially the owners would never allow their high priced QB's to run it. Cam Newton who may be absolutely perfect to run it in the NFL doesn't run it for that very reason. Take a look at his highlights so far….he is running a pro style offense. Yes, he does run some spread option stuff, but I'd but those plays at about 2%.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7l_GsLuwCM

Please don't compare Brady to Tebow….they are nothing alike.

Cam would have been plugged right into the same offense at Florida and they wouldn't have missed a beat. I would also say that if Newton played instead of Tebow vs. Alabama in 2009….Florida would have won. Tebow lost that game because of his inability to throw the ball.

Again…Florida suspended Newton for multiple off the field transgressions. Newton decided to transfer…"On November 21, 2008, Newton was arrested for alleged theft of a laptop computer from a student at the University of Florida. He was subsequently temporarily suspended by the team after the laptop was in fact found to be in his possession.[12][13] Investigators tracked the stolen laptop to the athlete, and how Newton tossed the computer out his dorm window in a humorously ill-advised attempt to hide it from the Police (a friend scooped up the laptop and hid it behind a dumpster at a nearby school building).[14] Newton was suspended indefinitely and announced his intention to transfer three days before Florida's national championship win over Oklahoma.[10] All charges against Newton were dropped after he completed a court-approved pretrial diversion program."

The reason Tebow dominated SEC defenses…which if I'm being honest are overrated as a whole, was because of the offense he ran and the fact that he had a truly versatile player in Percy Harvin. The tandem of Tebow and Harvin was UNSTOPPABLE. Harvin averaged nearly 10 yards rushing….for his career. That is insane.

Florida was LOADED with speed on offense. Plug that speed into the spread option and put Tebow in at QB along with Meyer's creativity….the SEC and the rest of college football didn't have a chance.

But make no mistake…Tebow is not a running back. He is/was successful running the ball because of the misdirection and basic principles of the offense he was running.

Tebow was a very productive passer in college….but not because he himself is a skilled passer. His production was a result of an outstanding offensive philosophy.

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 12:58 AM
Do you realize TEbow had a better record the season after Harvin left than he ever had with him?

LOL

You don't know ANYTHING!

You think Florida is going to kick a player BETTER than Tebow to the curb because of a laptop and some tests? Do you know how many Florida players get in trouble? Do you see them kicking any of them out? LOL

If Cam was so great why wasn't he even the starter when he went to Auburn? he was behind their other QB until the season started..

Why wasn't Auburn a championship favorite if he was considered better than Tebow coming out of Florida?

The stuff you spew makes zero sense.. just like the media talking heads.. Tebow was far far and away a greater passer than Cam ever showed to be at any time in college.

Cam had better runners than Tebow ever had at any time at Florida and he still couldn't pass at a high level..



Exclusive: QB Cam Newton to transfer to Texas JC
Florida Gators — posted by jeremy fowler on January, 5 2009 8:55 AM
Discuss This: Comments(17) | Add to del.icio.us | Digg it
Sophomore quarterback Cam Newton, who has had a tough season after facing legal trouble, has decided to find a new home at an undisclosed Texas junior college, his father, Cecil Newton, told the Sentinel.

Numerous factors played into the decision to leave, Cecil said, including playing time and the search for a fresh start after a November arrest for allegedly stealing a student’s laptop and throwing it out of his dorm window. The departure of Dan Mullen to Mississippi State also attributed to the decision, Cecil said.

The legal proceedings are still unfolding in Newton’s case until possibly next week or beyond, according to lawyer Huntley Johnson. There is "absolutely no" animosity toward Florida, said Cecil, who certainly isn’t taking a page out of the Robert Marve book of transferring.

"We’ll be rooting for the Gators for life," Cecil said. "Cam had a great experience at Florida. We just feel Cam has all the tools to play at a major college level. He’s going to start this new chapter of his life and become re-recruited next year."

The idea, at least from a football standpoint, is to follow the path of former Gators safety Jamar Hornsby, who was kicked off the team last year for his arrest on credit card fraud, played a year of junior college ball and later signed with Ole Miss.

Newton, 19, will fight for a redshirt after injuring his ankle early in the 2008 season. Newton didn’t travel with the team to Miami for Thursday’s national championship game after facing three felony counts for the arrest. Newton is expected to be treated as a first-time offender with at least one charge dropped, according to a source.

The former five-star recruit entered the 2008 season battling for the backup job with redshirt freshman John Brantley, who now appears to be the future of Florida once Tim Tebow leaves. Newton, an undeniably talented athlete, will end his Gators career with 113 rushing yards along with 6-of-12 passing for 54 yards.

Cecil said he never found closure from Florida Coach Urban Meyer about his son’s future as a Gator once Mullen left, though he understands the Gators have priorities while fighting for a national title.

"Was he No. 2 or No. 3? We never really did define that," Cecil said about Cam’s status in the lineup. "And the verdict is out on whether Tim will stay or go this season."

Is this how a team treats a guy they think is a Heisman winner and national championship winner?

Auburn was ideal for a run first QB like Cam.. Cam's Qb coach right now is the same guy that made David Garrard look like a pro bowler.. without him Garrard was cut from the Jags..

Florida; offense was way too tough for cam to run and way too pass heavy. Tebow also was the primary runner.. his between the tackles running opened things for everyone else. Dyer was the inside runner creating opportunities for cam to run..

Cam couldn't have filed Tebow's role as a runner or passer at Florida.. certainly not both.

If he could have why on Earth wouldn't they have used him WITH Tebow?

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 01:21 AM
Do you realize TEbow had a better record the season after Harvin left than he ever had with him?

LOL

You don't know ANYTHING!

You think Florida is going to kick a player BETTER than Tebow to the curb because of a laptop and some tests? Do you know how many Florida players get in trouble? Do you see them kicking any of them out? LOL

If Cam was so great why wasn't he even the starter when he went to Auburn? he was behind their other QB until the season started..

Why wasn't Auburn a championship favorite if he was considered better than Tebow coming out of Florida?

The stuff you spew makes zero sense.. just like the media talking heads.. Tebow was far far and away a greater passer than Cam ever showed to be at any time in college.

Cam had better runners than Tebow ever had at any time at Florida and he still couldn't pass at a high level..





Is this how a team treats a guy they think is a Heisman winner and national championship winner?

Auburn was ideal for a run first QB like Cam.. Cam's Qb coach right now is the same guy that made David Garrard look like a pro bowler.. without him Garrard was cut from the Jags..

Florida; offense was way too tough for cam to run and way too pass heavy. Tebow also was the primary runner.. his between the tackles running opened things for everyone else. Dyer was the inside runner creating opportunities for cam to run..

Cam couldn't have filed Tebow's role as a runner or passer at Florida.. certainly not both.

If he could have why on Earth wouldn't they have used him WITH Tebow?

Actually with Harvin in 2008, Florida went undefeated and won a national championship.

And without him Tebow and the Gators went 12-1 and played in a meaningless bowl game. Sooo….I'm not sure how they did better without Harvin…

I really don't care what you say….Florida suspended Newton after he was ARRESTED for theft…and yes, when a player is that egregious…they get suspended. And Guess what…he WAS Tebow's backup and transferred right before the National title game. Brantley had red shirted that year.

Auburn started Newton from the beginning of the season. They weren't a title contender simply because of how average their team was the previous year. That is also a product of the current setup in college football. Just because you have a preseason ranking that is high….it means nothing. All the preseason stuff is nothing but guessing based on what people saw from the previous year and what you have returning.

Newton was the better passer in college. Newton is the better passer in the NFL. I'm not sure why you keep saying Newton couldn't throw the ball…he had the 2nd highest QB rating in all of college football. In fact, Tebow's best college passer efficiency was 172 while Newton's was 182….10 points higher than Tebows.

I mean…those are facts…not sure how you or anyone else could refute them.

Garrard was cut as a salary cap saving move…he won the starting job during preseason.

Florida basically ran the same exact offense that Auburn ran with Newton. FYI….Newton threw it 280 times compared to Tebow's 314 his last year. They threw for the same amount of yards and Newton threw 9 more TD's…so I'm not sure why you are saying that Tebow threw it WAY more.

Why wouldn't they use him WITH Tebow? Because he was the backup QB. When have you ever seen two QB's on the field at the same time?

Newton had nearly identical numbers that Tebow had in his best year with the Gators….running the same offense.

Newton ran for nearly 1500 yards last year in college….Tebow never came close to that.

MacGruder
11-03-2011, 02:21 AM
Actually with Harvin in 2008, Florida went undefeated and won a national championship.

WTF?

They lost to Auburn that year... the team you claim was so lacking in talent compared to Florida.. beat probably the most talented Florida team in history.. and Tebow went UNDEFEATED the regular season when Harvin left.. something Tebow never did with Harvin.

And without him Tebow and the Gators went 12-1 and played in a meaningless bowl game. Sooo….I'm not sure how they did better without Harvin…

They won all their regular season games.. no team has ever won back to back BCS championships.. so you are asking the impossible there.. When Harvin had his biggest games the Gators usually lost.. what does that tel you..

I really don't care what you say….Florida suspended Newton after he was ARRESTED for theft…and yes, when a player is that egregious…they get suspended. And Guess what…he WAS Tebow's backup and transferred right before the National title game. Brantley had red shirted that year.

So then why did another school play him and Florida wouldn't.. don't you realize all the trouble Florida players get into and still play. You think Cam's dad is going to say he was 3rd string if he wasn't? LOL You think Florida isn't going to bend over backwards to show they want cam if he is as great as people pretend he is?

And yet Auburn wasn't even talked about when Cam went there.. And Florida never even played him with Tebow and you claim the NFL won't risk their QBs yet they would NOT play Cam to protect Tebow.. none of it makes sense dude..


Newton was the better passer in college. Newton is the better passer in the NFL. I'm not sure why you keep saying Newton couldn't throw the ball…he had the 2nd highest QB rating in all of college football. In fact, Tebow's best college passer efficiency was 172 while Newton's was 182….10 points higher than Tebows.

Yes.. because he had a great run game around him and a dominant line. His team was full of seniors.

I have always said Cam's year was much more comparable to Chris Leak.. in that he and Leak were role players. The real stars were Tebow and Dyer. Cam like Leak isn't an NFL QB either..

I mean…those are facts…not sure how you or anyone else could refute them.

Because Cam is overrated just like everyone claimed Tebow was overrated.. Cam had a service place him on that team. BECAUSE it was ideal for a run first QB.

Garrard was cut as a salary cap saving move…he won the starting job during preseason.

Again.. not true.. they said he played horrible all preseason and training camp.

Florida basically ran the same exact offense that Auburn ran with Newton. FYI….Newton threw it 280 times compared to Tebow's 314 his last year. They threw for the same amount of yards and Newton threw 9 more TD's…so I'm not sure why you are saying that Tebow threw it WAY more.

Compare the year Tebow had talent on offense to Cam's year when his team was loaded.. And Tebow did that as a sophomore while Cam was in his 4th year.

Why wouldn't they use him WITH Tebow? Because he was the backup QB. When have you ever seen two QB's on the field at the same time?

Did you see the offense after Tebow left? All those guys were QBs.. they needed any kind of runner.. Tebow had to fill the role of runner himself. Why wouldn't you use such a supposed talent player if you have them?

Newton had nearly identical numbers that Tebow had in his best year with the Gators….running the same offense.

Tebow never had runners like that at UF. Tebow had to fill the role of a power runner himself. And never missed a game.. no way on Earth Cam could do that.. especially with his weak passing. The only reason he could pass that year was because he had those runners. And he barely passed then. Look at his championship game.. he didn't play well.

[quote]Newton ran for nearly 1500 yards last year in college….Tebow never came close to that.[QUOTE]

Yrs.. but Tebow's running yards were much more valuable than Cam;s.. because like Dyer Tebow was the inside runner. Cam padded his stats a lot against weak teams too.Tebow;s between tackles running opened things for everyone else - he padded their stats. Like Harvin.. Cam was in the Harvin role.. he was the guy who benefited from Dyer. Cam was the liability. Teams dared him to run and pass the ball.. without Dyer he never could have done that. Teams focused on stopping Tebow and Dyer first.. Cam and Harvin second.

StugotsIII
11-03-2011, 02:58 AM
2008 was Harvin's last year with the Gators:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/57/year/2008/florida-gators

This is the year they ran the table and won the title.

2009, Harvin was in the NFL and Tebow and the Gators went 12-1.

Gator history lesson:

2006: Beat OSU to win the title
2007: Lost 4 games and lost to UM in a New Years day bowl game
2008: Went undefeated and won the title
2009: Went 12-1 and won a BCS bowl game

Why did Auburn pay him? They wanted to win. Why did Florida suspend him? He was arrested for theft. Getting arrested is a big deal, even at Florida.

Well, Auburn WAS talked about and so was Newton. ESPN televised their spring game and they were raving about Newton. You just weren't paying attention.

Cams dad is a liar…so I don't put much faith into what he says.

Did you really say that Cam Newton was a role player in college? He won the Heisman…and the BCS Championship MVP.

Newton is also second to Drew Brees in passing yardage…indicating that he can in fact throw the football.

You keep saying Newton was a run first QB in college, yet he threw for the same amount of yards and more TD's than Tebow did his senior year. So far, Newton is not overrated. He has performed wonderfully in the NFL….far better than expected.

Tebow had talent on his offense every year he was at Florida, but I'll compare their Heisman winning years:

Tebow:

Total Yards: 4181
Total TDs: 55

Newton:

Total Yards: 4369
Total TDs: 51

Newton has slightly more yards and Tebow has slightly more TD's.
Total TDs:

You apparently didn't watch much of Newton at Auburn….he was definitely a power runner…just a faster version of Tim Tebow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0IUuI97Jys&feature=related

Here is Tebow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INxqYDAFSQ8

Nearly identical offenses….

Cam padded his stats vs. weak teams? Really? They played in the same conference.

I suggest you do some reading on the spread option offense. Watch Oregon and Auburn.

andre
11-03-2011, 05:34 AM
haha , speechless

fontaine
11-03-2011, 06:47 AM
Semantics.. He's essentially a rookie. What sidderence does it make though? He has no game experience.. and Fox has a different system than McD.


It makes a helluva sidderence. Tebow should have spent his offseason sidderently.

Even before the draft, Tebow voluntarily wanted to have a sidderent throwing motion and worked on it.

If things had worked out sidderently and Tebow actually worked on the one weakeness on his game then who knows, he could be a completely sidderent QB right now.

The current staff didn't force sidderences on his throwing motions/mechanics. Those sidderences starting LAST year with McDaniels. Fox and co didn't even spend a lot of time in training with Tebow to put in sidderences into his throwing motion.

So blame Tebow/McDaniels for his throwing motion.

Unless you think sidderently.

Miss I.
11-03-2011, 08:29 AM
MissI negged me once because I said I didn't want Orton to have fluke wins because it would prolong his sucking on this team..

Do you neg people who say "Suck for Luck? too?

well, you should feel special, I very rarely actually negative rep someone. I give way more positive. In this case I was probably tired of the general overall let's wish ill on our own players bent and your statement whatever it was probably just pushed my last straw.

And no I don't go near the Suck for Luck threads because I don't think it's a good strategy if you want to even call it that. If we get a chance at him in the draft, fine, if not so be it.

Mostly I read your stuff and laugh and move on. If I happen on the suck for luck stuff it's kind of the same. Anyway, I hope you understand that most people aren't actually anti-tebow even if they identify gaps in his skills. Even Tebow would probably acknowledge that. I am however a bit sick of the hype around him. Just let him play and win the job. Every great player can overcome obstacles and doesn't use them as excuses, Tebow might do that too.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-03-2011, 09:10 AM
it is a little like talking to a box of rocks, though you know at least rocks have a use. ;D

True.

I could throw a rock at MacGoober.

Tebow could, too. He'd just miss his target by 20 yards.

broncocalijohn
11-03-2011, 10:10 AM
True.

I could throw a rock at MacGoober.

Tebow could, too. He'd just miss his target by 20 yards.

According to MacGruber, at least no one else will pick off that rock.

HAT
11-03-2011, 07:06 PM
Joe Montana and Harbough said he never even should have messed with his motion. Mike Holmgren said the same..




4. Tebow's motion IS the same as it was in college. His muscle memory takes over and his mechanics break down.


This is juts not true.. of course there are going to be times when he regresses.. but it's obvious how hard he has been working on it and you can see the improvements he has made.


So let me get this straight.....

MacGuano has been posting that Montana line since he's been here...

Stugots counters that his motion has, in fact, not changed.

Then Mac comes back with: "No he's worked hard to IMPROVE it but some times he REGRESSES to his "old" ways that Montana says he shouldn't have changed in the first place"

Silly MacGuano.