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View Full Version : Would you give up 3 1sts for Luck?


24champ
11-01-2011, 12:18 PM
Vote

TheReverend
11-01-2011, 12:20 PM
2 and 1-2 2nds/Elvis, Champ etc

24champ
11-01-2011, 12:22 PM
2 and 1-2 2nds/Elvis, Champ etc

Would you trade the 3 1sts, knowing you could get high picks for Elvis/Champ from another team that doesn't have the #1 pick?


edit: phrased question wrong.

vonqkilla
11-01-2011, 12:23 PM
Elvis is worth a 5th maybe.
Id trade ours + 3 1sts.

bowtown
11-01-2011, 12:24 PM
Elvis is worth,a 5th maybe..

Please...

bendog
11-01-2011, 12:30 PM
Doom imo is untradeable with a contract guaranteeing 20 mil plus over 12-13. I can't vote. I'd have to see Luck in the combine because I get so few WC games here. I hear his arm is great, but the one game I saw I have to say he showed me less arm that Lambchop did at Vandy.

24champ
11-01-2011, 12:31 PM
Personally, 3 firsts is the limit for me in the event Elway wants to sell the farm for Luck.

It's a real possibility that Indy gets the first overall pick. That's a lot of resources towards Luck, giving up your future draft picks and throwing a lot of dough at the kid. I know some say Bowlen won't spend that kind of cash, but if he is listening to anyone other than Ellis, it's Elway.

If Luck is that generational QB, which I think he is then yes you throw that kind of compensation around to get him.

Ray Finkle
11-01-2011, 12:34 PM
2 1st and a 2nd is as far as I'd go.

Rolandftw
11-01-2011, 12:34 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/424177-what-denver-broncos-elvis-dumervil-will-actually-get-paid

TheChamp24
11-01-2011, 12:36 PM
No. We need more than just Luck to become a competent football team and we'd be trading 2 future top 10 picks IMO.

MagicHef
11-01-2011, 12:39 PM
Yep. An elite player (from what we can tell) at the very most important position? I'd do it.

TheReverend
11-01-2011, 12:40 PM
Would you trade the 3 1sts, knowing you could get high picks for Elvis/Champ from another team that doesn't have the #1 pick?


edit: phrased question wrong.

Well, sure.

...but we couldn't :(

Kaylore
11-01-2011, 12:43 PM
Let's trade Orton, Beadles, Daniel Fells and a sixth round pick for Andrew Luck


Brought to you by TheDave's school of trades from the Orange Mane.

BroncoInferno
11-01-2011, 12:45 PM
If they study Luck and conclude he is a Manning/Rodgers/Brady type of player, then three 1sts would be a bargain. A truly great QB like the above mentioned can mask a lot of other roster deficiencies. Just look at Indy this season. Essentially the same team that last season was a division winning playoff team with Manning is a hopeless joke without him.

Hercules Rockefeller
11-01-2011, 12:46 PM
Absolutely. 3 1sts isn't that much when you're talking about filling the most important position on the field for 15 years.

Indy isn't going to want just picks though if they end up with the 1st overall. They will want a roster player or two that can help them make a couple more Super Bowl runs with Peyton.

The real question- would you be willing to give up someone like Miller or Clady along with a few picks to get Luck?

24champ
11-01-2011, 12:47 PM
No. We need more than just Luck to become a competent football team and we'd be trading 2 future top 10 picks IMO.

I'd be a 100 percent for trading 3 firsts, if we didn't have clowns running the FO.

I really hope Xanders gets the axe in January so we can have an FO staff that can get some hits in the middle rounds.

bowtown
11-01-2011, 12:48 PM
Let's trade Orton, Beadles, Daniel Fells and a sixth round pick for Andrew Luck


Brought to you by TheDave's school of trades from the Orange Mane.

I'd prefer that 6th be conditional if we are also throwing in Beadles.

That One Guy
11-01-2011, 12:50 PM
I read something to the point that Manning wont let Indy take Luck. I haven't seen the actual information and don't recall who said it.

Either way, Miami will need a QB like no other and will be one of the top two picks. Point is completely moot, in my opinion.

24champ
11-01-2011, 12:52 PM
Absolutely. 3 1sts isn't that much when you're talking about filling the most important position on the field for 15 years.

Indy isn't going to want just picks though if they end up with the 1st overall. They will want a roster player or two that can help them make a couple more Super Bowl runs with Peyton.

The real question- would you be willing to give up someone like Miller or Clady along with a few picks to get Luck?

Tough call and you also have to factor in that other teams will be bidding for the #1 overall. Indy is going to be compensated very well for that pick.

3 firsts and Clady for Luck? I don't like it, but the market sets the price.

TheReverend
11-01-2011, 12:53 PM
Let's trade Orton, Beadles, Daniel Fells and a sixth round pick for Andrew Luck


Brought to you by TheDave's school of trades from the Orange Mane.

As long as we get to keep Moore!

NFLBRONCO
11-01-2011, 12:54 PM
I would trade 3 #1's for Luck. Even if all the picks were top 5. Great QB's cover up most weaknesses on the team better then another other. Even if we drafted good and hauled in a DT OT CB with those picks we'd still need so much more.

This Org needs some kind of blockbuster move to rejuvinate excitement I know it worked well in 83 even with Elways struggles for a few years.

Dedhed
11-01-2011, 12:56 PM
If Luck is that generational QB, which I think he is then yes you throw that kind of compensation around to get him.

The question then becomes what kind of team you can surround him with once you have him.

Rohirrim
11-01-2011, 12:56 PM
Sure. The only guy I would consider untouchable is Von.

NFLBRONCO
11-01-2011, 12:57 PM
Imo if we had any chance of a trade it would have to include Miller or Clady.

NFLBRONCO
11-01-2011, 01:00 PM
Sure. The only guy I would consider untouchable is Von.

Even as bad as Elway would want Luck I bet he will agree about Von.

DomCasual
11-01-2011, 01:01 PM
Could the three firsts be Thomas, Ayers, and Tebow?

vonqkilla
11-01-2011, 01:03 PM
Please...

No sacks, always hurt, small vs run...

Pick Six
11-01-2011, 01:03 PM
Let's trade the whole team. Then, Luck can play throw and catch with himself...:thumbsup:

Of COURSE NOT! Tebow was not even the biggest problem, Sunday. The defense couldn't get many stops. Andrew Luck can't fix the defense...

mkporter
11-01-2011, 01:06 PM
That's a pretty tough call, but too much risk, IMO. Even for a "slam-dunk" player like Luck. There's always the chance that he doesn't really adapt to the pro game as well as people think, or he gets hurt, or you don't have a coaching staff competent to develop him.

I agree that 3 firsts is probably the going rate for him, though. Now if you had asked if I would trade Cutler and a 1st for Luck, then my answer might be different. Or if I would trade, Moreno, Ayers, Tebow, and DT for luck, then I might answer differently.

24champ
11-01-2011, 01:07 PM
Of COURSE NOT! Tebow was not even the biggest problem, Sunday. The defense couldn't get many stops. Andrew Luck can't fix the defense...

Tebow was a huge problem, we didn't get a lot of 1st downs, if any. Defense got wiped out from being on the field all day. Fact is, this franchise needs some direction to head in. Right now its going nowhere, even with all the prior changes in the offseason.

I would draft Luck and would think that Elway would change up the offensive staff to suit Luck. That means we are likely going to go back to a WCO with Luck at QB.

mkporter
11-01-2011, 01:09 PM
Imo if we had any chance of a trade it would have to include Miller or Clady.

You might be right. Spending 3 firsts on a rookie QB, and then trading away your pro bowl left tackle seems like an ill-considered move, however, and I'd be pissed if we traded Von. It is really nice have some elite talent to watch when the defense is on the field.

extralife
11-01-2011, 01:10 PM
This is the modern NFL: have an elite QB? Then you win, no matter what else you have. Don't have an elite QB? Then you lose, no matter what else you have. Indy is going to win 1 or 2 games this year with the same team they won 10 with last year, and 14 the year before. End of story. If someone is willing to trade Luck, you give them whatever they want.

DarkHorse
11-01-2011, 01:12 PM
You'd better have the utmost confidence in your scouts and ability to find players in the rest of the draft if you give up that much.

extralife
11-01-2011, 01:14 PM
or, conversely, no confidence that they'd use the firsts properly.

alt: I'm pretty sure I'd trade Knowshon, Tebow, Ayers, and DT for Andrew Luck.

DomCasual
11-01-2011, 01:14 PM
I answered yes. That is on the assumption that Luck doesn't have anything happen over the next eight months that drops his value.

An elite QB covers so many other mistakes. And he's a 10 - 15 year investment. Does it really matter who we've drafted with our first round picks in the decade plus since Elway retired? Other than one year, we've had mediocrity, at best.

Steve Sewell
11-01-2011, 01:14 PM
Is Luck worth the following combination:

Tebow, Ayers, and Moreno?

Hell yes he is. And those were all 1st rounders. Sell the farm for the guy! You never know what you're going to get in the 1st round, but Luck is as sure a thing as I've seen in a very long time.

vonqkilla
11-01-2011, 01:15 PM
Let's trade the whole team. Then, Luck can play throw and catch with himself...:thumbsup:

Of COURSE NOT! Tebow was not even the biggest problem, Sunday. The defense couldn't get many stops. Andrew Luck can't fix the defense...

Def forced 7 punts.

vonqkilla
11-01-2011, 01:16 PM
Is Luck worth the following combination:

Tebow, Ayers, and Moreno?

Hell yes he is. And those were all 1st rounders. Sell the farm for the guy! You never know what you're going to get in the 1st round, but Luck is as sure a thing as I've seen in a very long time.

Lol, wed be lucky to get 1 3rd for all 3 combined.

vonqkilla
11-01-2011, 01:18 PM
This is the modern NFL: have an elite QB? Then you win, no matter what else you have. Don't have an elite QB? Then you lose, no matter what else you have. Indy is going to win 1 or 2 games this year with the same team they won 10 with last year, and 14 the year before. End of story. If someone is willing to trade Luck, you give them whatever they want.

Pretty much. 2012 nfl is all about precise passing. Evolve or die.

mkporter
11-01-2011, 01:18 PM
Is Luck worth the following combination:

Tebow, Ayers, and Moreno?

Hell yes he is. And those were all 1st rounders. Sell the farm for the guy! You never know what you're going to get in the 1st round, but Luck is as sure a thing as I've seen in a very long time.

Is he worth Clady, Miller and Cutler? We are picking in the top five to ten this year in all likelihood, so we will be able to select the 2nd or 3rd best QB in a very strong draft, and keep our other two first rounders.

alkemical
11-01-2011, 01:19 PM
Is he worth Clady, Miller and Cutler? We are picking in the top five to ten this year in all likelihood, so we will be able to select the 2nd or 3rd best QB in a very strong draft, and keep our other two first rounders.

I don't want Jim Kelly, Dan Marino or Ken O'Brien!

extralife
11-01-2011, 01:21 PM
I don't want Jim Kelly, Dan Marino or Ken O'Brien!

Well. I'm pretty sure I'd rather have Marino + Clady + Miller than Elway by himself, if we're going there. So if you do think that that USC or Sooner schlub is a star, then yeah, you don't make the Luck deal.

mkporter
11-01-2011, 01:21 PM
Let's trade the whole team. Then, Luck can play throw and catch with himself...:thumbsup:

Of COURSE NOT! Tebow was not even the biggest problem, Sunday. The defense couldn't get many stops. Andrew Luck can't fix the defense...

The defense gave up 31 points, but they were stranded on the field all day long because the offense couldn't put together any kind of drive. The offense was a much much bigger problem on Sunday. Tebow was a big part of the offensive struggles. So was the oline. But your larger point is valid, you need more than Luck.

alkemical
11-01-2011, 01:21 PM
Well. I'm pretty sure I'd rather have Marino + Clady + Miller than Elway by himself, if we're going there. So if you do think that that USC or Sooner schlub is a star, then yeah, you don't make the Luck deal.

= no Superbowls!

You aren't a real fan!

/kidding

;)

Steve Sewell
11-01-2011, 01:24 PM
Lol, wed be lucky to get 1 3rd for all 3 combined.

Exactly my point. That's why you throw 3 1st rounders at getting Luck!

ICON
11-01-2011, 01:26 PM
If you can hit on a franchise qb such as Manning, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger or Rogers it stabilizes your most important position on your team for hopefully a decade maybe even 15 years. So I voted yes.

Steve Sewell
11-01-2011, 01:26 PM
Is he worth Clady, Miller and Cutler? We are picking in the top five to ten this year in all likelihood, so we will be able to select the 2nd or 3rd best QB in a very strong draft, and keep our other two first rounders.

Sure that's possible. But I want the sure thing. Luck is worth 3 first rounders IMO.

mkporter
11-01-2011, 01:37 PM
Sure that's possible. But I want the sure thing. Luck is worth 3 first rounders IMO.

I get that, but nothing is a sure thing. There was debate about Manning v. Leaf. If I could KNOW that I was getting a perennial pro-bowl QB, then yes, I would probably make the trade. But how much more likely is it that Luck is that guy instead of Barkley/Griffin/Jones/Whoever? IMO, not enough to add two first rounders into the mix.

Rohirrim
11-01-2011, 01:38 PM
I don't think Miami would take three firsts for Luck. Indy might, depending on the condition of Peyton.

BroncoBen
11-01-2011, 01:40 PM
Since we are talking the future of the franchise for the next 10-12 years... 3 1st rounds picks is nothing. You can bet with Luck on the team the Broncos would preform so much better. At least Luck can convert a 3rd down to give the Defense a breather.

vonqkilla
11-01-2011, 01:57 PM
Our pick plus 3 more or ours + 2 more?

Either way, yes.

gunns
11-01-2011, 02:01 PM
Hell NO! This team has more needs than just QB.

Yes Indy has done horribly with Manning gone, but it was beginning to manifest itself last year. They have needs and Manning isn't the only reason this is happening to them.

Luck is becoming overhyped and there have been many overhyped players over the years. Only 3 have panned out....Elway, Bruce Smith, and Suh. And as talented and great as Elway was he still needed a team around him.

I do not want to become the next New Orleans Saints in taking Ricky Williams, another overhyped player.

extralife
11-01-2011, 02:04 PM
I don't think Miami would take three firsts for Luck. Indy might, depending on the condition of Peyton.

There's no way Miami would do it, no. Indy is super interesting, because by all rights they should take him, and they certainly know that they should, but is that how they want Peyton to go out? Do they have the balls for that? I think they probably take him.

maven
11-01-2011, 02:05 PM
Swap of 1st round picks and two future #1's?

YES

Play2win
11-01-2011, 02:08 PM
Tebow was a huge problem, we didn't get a lot of 1st downs, if any. Defense got wiped out from being on the field all day. Fact is, this franchise needs some direction to head in. Right now its going nowhere, even with all the prior changes in the offseason.

I would draft Luck and would think that Elway would change up the offensive staff to suit Luck. That means we are likely going to go back to a WCO with Luck at QB.

Getting Luck in here and Getting back to the WCO... as a fan, I would care what the team gave up to make THAT happen...

Love me some WCO...

Taco John
11-01-2011, 02:11 PM
I don't think I would. We're going to have high picks for the next three years with or without Andrew Luck. We should use those picks to build a team.

ColoradoDarin
11-01-2011, 02:11 PM
Hell NO! This team has more needs than just QB.

Yes Indy has done horribly with Manning gone, but it was beginning to manifest itself last year. They have needs and Manning isn't the only reason this is happening to them.

Luck is becoming overhyped and there have been many overhyped players over the years. Only 3 have panned out....Elway, Bruce Smith, and Suh. And as talented and great as Elway was he still needed a team around him.

I do not want to become the next New Orleans Saints in taking Ricky Williams, another overhyped player.

This. We have too many holes to fill.

vonqkilla
11-01-2011, 02:14 PM
Luck is becoming overhyped and there have been many overhyped players over the years. Only 3 have panned out....Elway, Bruce Smith, and Suh. And as talented and great as Elway was he still needed a team around him.

I do not want to become the next overhped player.

Lol

Anyway, only 3 overhyped players ever panned out.

Ok!

Can we all debate with facts, not reckless uninformed opinion?

24champ
11-01-2011, 02:15 PM
Getting Luck in here and Getting back to the WCO... as a fan, I would care what the team gave up to make THAT happen...

Love me some WCO...

It's shaping up to head back to that. This current offense blows and it doesn't matter who the QB is. McCoy is running out of time . Gase is surely going to be on his way out with the regression of the QBs.

I am really hoping for some wholesale changes in January, phase out the leftover crew.

maven
11-01-2011, 02:15 PM
Hell NO! This team has more needs than just QB.

Yes Indy has done horribly with Manning gone, but it was beginning to manifest itself last year. They have needs and Manning isn't the only reason this is happening to them.

Luck is becoming overhyped and there have been many overhyped players over the years. Only 3 have panned out....Elway, Bruce Smith, and Suh. And as talented and great as Elway was he still needed a team around him.

I do not want to become the next New Orleans Saints in taking Ricky Williams, another overhyped player.

Manning went #1 overall and lived up to the hype. If you go back and look at that trade, New Orleans won it by getting Williams. Anyway, you are talking about two potential players lost. Big f'n deal.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
11-01-2011, 02:18 PM
What does three 1st Round picks mean? Does it include the 1st round pick we would swap to trade up for Luck? Because then, you're essentially just giving up two 1st Round picks (2013, 2014). Or, are we talking the swap in 2012, and then 1st rounders in 2013, 2014, and 2015.

Either way, do the damn deal. This team isn't the greatest evaluators of talent in the 1st Round anyway.

vonqkilla
11-01-2011, 02:19 PM
Manning went #1 overall and lived up to the hype. If you go back and look at that trade, New Orleans won it by getting Williams. Anyway, you are talking about two potential players lost. Big f'n deal.

And FA vets can be had cheap as well. Not that I trust Kidd, dir of pro player personel @ ALL.

Rookie risk > vet risk with family and mortgage

See DT vs Lloyd.

extralife
11-01-2011, 02:20 PM
I don't think I would. We're going to have high picks for the next three years with or without Andrew Luck. We should use those picks to build a team.

QB is the ONLY position that matters. It sort of makes modern football boring, to be honest, but it's the truth. If you have that top guy, you sort out the rest and make a run. If you don't have that top guy you're just pissing in the wind. I remember you in '06, when you reasoned that hey, we can't win a super bowl with Plummer no matter what the rest of the team does, so let's go with the kid and hope for the best. And you were right. It's also what Pittsburgh did with Big Ben. These days it's like that only far worse.

NUB
11-01-2011, 02:55 PM
I am disappointed there are so many who voted yes.

TheChamp24
11-01-2011, 03:01 PM
I guess you could argue, would you give up 3 1sts for Peyton Manning back in 1998.
Well, that Colt team was on the verge of something having solid young guys and then added a stud RB in Edgerrin James the next year while getting fast defensive players.
Would the Colts still have been as good as they were in Peyton's early years without the offensive threat of James?
That said, we need a force at RB. I hope we really do strongly look at getting one, and I'm still shaking my head about LeSean McCoy. I knew that guy would explode.

Br0nc0Buster
11-01-2011, 03:03 PM
I guess you could argue, would you give up 3 1sts for Peyton Manning back in 1998.
Well, that Colt team was on the verge of something having solid young guys and then added a stud RB in Edgerrin James the next year while getting fast defensive players.
Would the Colts still have been as good as they were in Peyton's early years without the offensive threat of James?
That said, we need a force at RB. I hope we really do strongly look at getting one, and I'm still shaking my head about LeSean McCoy. I knew that guy would explode.

yes in the 2nd round or below where RB picks belong
we have no business drafting one in the first this year

Br0nc0Buster
11-01-2011, 03:04 PM
I prolly would

If he is as good as advertised then he would be worth it IMO

Granted we suck in most places on this team, but we were actually competitive in our games earlier this year even with god awful qb play

I think a competent offensive coaching staff could go a long way into resurrecting our offense

TheChamp24
11-01-2011, 03:05 PM
yes in the 2nd round or below where RB picks belong
we have no business drafting one in the first this year

I like Trent Richardson, but not where he is projected to go in the top 10. Too many good RB's now a days in the 2nd/3rd rounds. Jones-Drew, McCoy, Gore, Forte, Rice, etc.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-01-2011, 03:08 PM
Yes.

DomCasual
11-01-2011, 03:12 PM
I am disappointed there are so many who voted yes.

I'm just tired of the perpetual process of mediocrity (at best) we're stuck in. From 1983 - 1999, we had a lot of number one draft picks. I'll list them, for the sake of argument:

Steve Sewell
Ricky Nattiel
Ted Gregory
Steve Atwater
Mike Croel
Tommy Maddox
Dan Williams
John Mobley
Trevor Pryce
Marcus Nash
Al Wilson

On that list, I see one great player, a couple really solid players, a bunch of decent starters, and a few absolute disasters.

Yet, in that period, we went to five Super Bowls, and won two of them.

I would roll the dice to get a run like that back. I would do it in a heartbeat. The consistent thread there is obvious. Is Luck another Elway? Obviously, he probably isn't. But I think the odds are better with taking a big chance on a guy like Luck, than taking a lot of little chances on the garbage we've been drafting here, in the last decade.

24champ
11-01-2011, 03:18 PM
http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y374/JKr3w13/AndrewLuckBroncos.jpg

Rohirrim
11-01-2011, 03:22 PM
I don't think I would. We're going to have high picks for the next three years with or without Andrew Luck. We should use those picks to build a team.

Detroit has been wasting first rounders for years, until they used one for Stafford. Now, they're starting to move. Without the QB, in this league, you go nowhere.

Turd_Ferguson
11-01-2011, 03:25 PM
No, I don't think I would. Matt Barkley looks good too. I don't want to hear about USC QBs Suck and PAC 12 blah blah blah. He looked good. Peter King was on ESPN radio this morning talking about how both Luck and Barkley were calling their own plays last saturday, and that it looked like 2 NFL QBs. I hate Peter King but I agree with him here. If you miss out on them both, draft Kellen Moore in the second round. That said, if they could swap and give up like a 1st a 3rd and DJ williams or champ or somebody then yes do that.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-01-2011, 03:26 PM
I would. Its really only giving up 2 first rounders, since i assume one is a swap? You build your team around good quarterbacking...a franchise QB is worth its weight in gold. You should do what you can to get it.

extralife
11-01-2011, 03:27 PM
I guess you could argue, would you give up 3 1sts for Peyton Manning back in 1998.
Well, that Colt team was on the verge of something having solid young guys and then added a stud RB in Edgerrin James the next year while getting fast defensive players.
Would the Colts still have been as good as they were in Peyton's early years without the offensive threat of James?
That said, we need a force at RB. I hope we really do strongly look at getting one, and I'm still shaking my head about LeSean McCoy. I knew that guy would explode.

are you honestly saying that, even with the hindsight of knowing what he's done, you would not have given up three first round picks for Peyton Manning? really?

ColoradoDarin
11-01-2011, 03:29 PM
Detroit has been wasting first rounders for years, until they used one for Stafford. Now, they're starting to move. Without the QB, in this league, you go nowhere.

And they spent the 3rd overall pick for Joey Harrington. Selecting a QB high is not a guarantee that he will pan out. So maybe Stafford only works now because they spent the intervening years putting talent into their roster top to bottom so the next QB could be successful?

Punisher
11-01-2011, 03:37 PM
I'll be your lover, i'll be forever
I'll be tomorrow, i'll do anything for Andrew Luck

Gort
11-01-2011, 03:43 PM
I read something to the point that Manning wont let Indy take Luck. I haven't seen the actual information and don't recall who said it.

Either way, Miami will need a QB like no other and will be one of the top two picks. Point is completely moot, in my opinion.

what you are referring to is Phil Simms' opinion.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/10/phil-simms-no-way-peyton-manning-will-let-colts-draft-andrew-luck/1

however, Indy's owner has already strongly implied that they would draft Luck if they have the #1 pick.

http://www.wpxi.com/sports/29448661/detail.html

Blart
11-01-2011, 04:34 PM
if I would trade, Moreno, Ayers, Tebow, and DT for luck, then I might answer differently.


That's four 1sts! And totally worth it. Broncos 1st round picks are terrible,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Denver_Broncos_first-round_draft_picks

We get about 1 good player out of 5 picks. So yes, 1 good player out of 3 picks would be a huge upgrade for this franchise.

UberBroncoMan
11-01-2011, 04:37 PM
Well...Indy and Miami are both going to draft him and one of em will be #1 so it's a moot point.

Blart
11-01-2011, 04:40 PM
Well...Indy and Miami are both going to draft him and one of em will be #1 so it's a moot point.

But if we keep faith in Timmy, anything can happen!

UberBroncoMan
11-01-2011, 04:43 PM
And they spent the 3rd overall pick for Joey Harrington. Selecting a QB high is not a guarantee that he will pan out. So maybe Stafford only works now because they spent the intervening years putting talent into their roster top to bottom so the next QB could be successful?

...when he was a rookie QB they went 2-14. He also had a pathetic 53.3% completion and 13 TD's to 20 INT's. Now he's raping it up with 19 TD's to 4 INT's.

People seem to forget how ****ing ****ty so many great QB's were their rookie seasons. Often because their teams were **** (which is why they were picked high), but also because they were rookies.

This is essentially Tebow's rookie year. He's on **** team. Not the Packers. He HAS played like ****, but I don't expect him to be remotely this bad next year if we stick with it.

I'd also expect Andrew Luck to come in and throw something like 15 TD's to 15 INT's.

Garcia Bronco
11-01-2011, 05:10 PM
Only 3 1sts. I'd be overpaying..maybe, but I'd do it in a heartbeat.

NUB
11-01-2011, 05:23 PM
I'm just tired of the perpetual process of mediocrity (at best) we're stuck in. From 1983 - 1999, we had a lot of number one draft picks. I'll list them, for the sake of argument:

Steve Sewell
Ricky Nattiel
Ted Gregory
Steve Atwater
Mike Croel
Tommy Maddox
Dan Williams
John Mobley
Trevor Pryce
Marcus Nash
Al Wilson

On that list, I see one great player, a couple really solid players, a bunch of decent starters, and a few absolute disasters.

Yet, in that period, we went to five Super Bowls, and won two of them.

I would roll the dice to get a run like that back. I would do it in a heartbeat. The consistent thread there is obvious. Is Luck another Elway? Obviously, he probably isn't. But I think the odds are better with taking a big chance on a guy like Luck, than taking a lot of little chances on the garbage we've been drafting here, in the last decade.

Key difference between those years and today is that Denver is a really bad team today.

Really bad. And the best players are only getting older. This team needs to radically pump fresh talent in at almost every single position. Selling out the future on the hopes that one guy is gonna crack it on this squad is bad strategy. I mean, it would make sense if we had some foundations around here, but the team simply does not. Given the fact that both Fox and McCoy are pretty bad offensive thinkers, you would probably be better of keeping those picks and drafting some linemen and linebackers which is what I think Denver really needs to focus on. Drop some defensive players like you see on that list on this squad and Denver turns it around pretty quick. No QB is going to come here and be a miracle worker, but very few people seem to realize that the issues here are way bigger than just this one position.

cutthemdown
11-01-2011, 05:26 PM
you are really asking if you would trade Ayers, Moreno, Moss for Luck, of course you would. First round picks are unproven, if Luck a cant miss qb hes worth 5 first round picks.

But if hes not the next manning/elway combined you blew it. I doubt he gets traded though.

rbackfactory80
11-01-2011, 05:35 PM
I love this place. About a month ago I made this same statement and everyone and their sister jumped down my throat saying I was insane. Now that we see Tebow in two games, everyone has changed their minds.

My personal position- I want to see more of Tebow.

However, if Tebow continues on the decline and our head coach allows him to play out the season, I say pull the trigger. Von and two firsts or three firsts alone is fine by me. Our defense is so far from legitimate it isn't even funny.

ScottXray
11-01-2011, 05:44 PM
I would IF
1. Tebow does not pan out ( obviously)
2. That is ALL. No other players or picks.
3. Less if players such as Miller etc involved.
I could possibly see Miller and 2 #1s (12/13) but would be disappointed since that is the only young player on our team that looks like he is worth his pick position ( 2nd player in 11 draft).

4. Bet this...! We will NOT be able get Luck without giving up TOO much
in terms of players and picks and will stink for the next 6 years, at least, if we do. By then Luck will be injured or gone to FA.

gunns
11-01-2011, 05:55 PM
Lol

Anyway, only 3 overhyped players ever panned out.

Ok!

Can we all debate with facts, not reckless uninformed opinion?

Sure, go ahead. I'll wait.

oubronco
11-01-2011, 05:56 PM
2 and 1-2 2nds/Elvis, Champ etc

^ This

Bronx33
11-01-2011, 05:56 PM
Put it this way (would you gamble your house and everything you own) on a stock tip from donald trump knowing full well if it fails you are screwed for years too come.

gunns
11-01-2011, 05:58 PM
Manning went #1 overall and lived up to the hype. If you go back and look at that trade, New Orleans won it by getting Williams. Anyway, you are talking about two potential players lost. Big f'n deal.

Uh, no. Manning was not overhyped. There was great debate whether he or Ryan Leaf would go first. And there were many who thought Ryan Leaf. If he was overhyped there would have been no debate. New Orleans won what by getting Williams and giving up an entire draft?

gunns
11-01-2011, 06:00 PM
Could the three firsts be Thomas, Ayers, and Tebow?

Now this I would gladly do

TheReverend
11-01-2011, 06:00 PM
Uh, no. Manning was not overhyped. There was great debate whether he or Ryan Leaf would go first. And there were many who thought Ryan Leaf. If he was overhyped there would have been no debate. New Orleans won what by getting Williams and giving up an entire draft?

No there weren't.

DomCasual
11-01-2011, 06:08 PM
Key difference between those years and today is that Denver is a really bad team today.

Really bad. And the best players are only getting older. This team needs to radically pump fresh talent in at almost every single position. Selling out the future on the hopes that one guy is gonna crack it on this squad is bad strategy. I mean, it would make sense if we had some foundations around here, but the team simply does not. Given the fact that both Fox and McCoy are pretty bad offensive thinkers, you would probably be better of keeping those picks and drafting some linemen and linebackers which is what I think Denver really needs to focus on. Drop some defensive players like you see on that list on this squad and Denver turns it around pretty quick. No QB is going to come here and be a miracle worker, but very few people seem to realize that the issues here are way bigger than just this one position.

I don't know. I think we have some decent players. I think our WRs have a chance to develop into LOTS more than we had in 1983, when Elway was brought in. Our OL is better, too. (IIRC, Elway didn't have a Pro Bowl OL until fairly late in his career). I don't think we have a RB - which is pathetic, since we made an investment in one. But we can get a RB outside of the 1st Round - and plug in guys like McGahee. Overall, I don't see any reason why our offense should be as awful as it is, once our WRs develop, a little. QB has killed us - it's been a revolving door.

On defense, I think we have Von, Elvis, Champ, and a bunch of question marks - and that's assuming that we can squeeze some solid years out of Champ at Safety (and that we get something out of Elvis). But there was some talent available through FA this year - especially, in the middle of the line. We have young talent at Safety - especially if Champ ends up at Safety. We would need to draft CB and LB. It would be nice if Ayers continued to improve at DE.

Plug in above-average play at QB, and I don't see why we can't be an 8-9 win team. That's about where we were when we traded for Elway (we were 20-21 in the three years prior to Elway).

I don't know. Does any of that seem crazy? I'm so tired of our QB play. I long for the days of Jake Plummer. That says a lot.

DomCasual
11-01-2011, 06:10 PM
Put it this way (would you gamble your house and everything you own) on a stock tip from donald trump knowing full well if it fails you are screwed for years too come.

If my house was a cardboard box under the overpass?

In a word, yes.

Rolandftw
11-01-2011, 06:26 PM
Three firsts for a rebuilding team like ours would be suicide. I wouldn't even give up two first rounders in back to back years.

I wouldn't want to give up more then:
2012 1st, 2nd
2013 2nd
2014 1st

yerner
11-01-2011, 06:30 PM
Three firsts for a rebuilding team like ours would be suicide. I wouldn't even give up two first rounders in back to back years.

I wouldn't want to give up more then:
2012 1st, 2nd
2013 2nd
2014 1st

Luck is going to play for 15 years barring injury.

gunns
11-01-2011, 06:42 PM
No there weren't.

Yes there were. Up until Manning was announced as the first pick they were debating which one the Colts would/should take. Most thought Manning but there were many who said they would take Leaf.

razorwire77
11-01-2011, 06:46 PM
Watched 90 percent of Luck's games, and barring a catastrophic injury, or sudden crack cocaine addiction the kid is going to be great. It's not just his top tier measurables, but his command of the offense. The kid is calling his own plays at the line of scrimmage, audibling into runs where the back breaks off 40 yarders. I think I'd be OK with a couple of 1st rounders, plus anybody on the roster not named Von Miller. If it's Miami, there's no way he gets traded. My guess is an Indy or a St. Louis is going to want 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, and a starting player like Champ.

bowtown
11-01-2011, 06:46 PM
Yes there were. Up until Manning was announced as the first pick they were debating which one the Colts would/should take. Most thought Manning but there were many who said they would take Leaf.

Around the NFL, it was almost a total consensus Manning was the better pick. Almost nobody thought Leaf was the better prospect. Manning was the can't miss, Leaf was the boom or bust.

Bronx33
11-01-2011, 06:50 PM
If my house was a cardboard box under the overpass?

In a word, yes.



;)

DomCasual
11-01-2011, 07:04 PM
Around the NFL, it was almost a total consensus Manning was the better pick. Almost nobody thought Leaf was the better prospect. Manning was the can't miss, Leaf was the boom or bust.

Leaf had better upside. Manning was safer. Leaf had the body everybody liked. He had the strongest arm that anyone had seen since Jeff George. Manning had more above the shoulders, and a royal football pedigree.

If I remember correctly, the consensus moved toward Manning in the month before the draft. I can't remember what the reasoning behind that was. But it wasn't clear cut until that last month.

The jury is still out, but most people consider Manning to have had the better NFL career. :)

gunns
11-01-2011, 07:27 PM
Around the NFL, it was almost a total consensus Manning was the better pick. Almost nobody thought Leaf was the better prospect. Manning was the can't miss, Leaf was the boom or bust.

That's the way I felt and was surprised with the talk about Leaf. Manning had the most exposure in college but many expounded on this and what Leaf could do that many hadn't seen. Many were not happy with Mannings happy feet and I recall him being called a prima donna.

extralife
11-01-2011, 07:28 PM
It was more like Manning was The Guy for a year and a half and then Leaf sort of came from nowhere that year--bandwagons being bandwagons, suddenly there was a debate.

*WARHORSE*
11-01-2011, 07:52 PM
Two firsts and a second.

Rohirrim
11-01-2011, 07:52 PM
And they spent the 3rd overall pick for Joey Harrington. Selecting a QB high is not a guarantee that he will pan out. So maybe Stafford only works now because they spent the intervening years putting talent into their roster top to bottom so the next QB could be successful?

Yeah, but that was Matt Millen doing the drafting whereas we have...






wait a minute...

oubronco
11-01-2011, 07:54 PM
Two firsts and a second.

In a heartbeat :strong:

Punisher
11-01-2011, 08:00 PM
In a heartbeat :strong:

Oh I like your heartbeat ;)

spdirty
11-02-2011, 08:07 AM
If all it will take is 3 firsts I'll do it without thinking twice about it. I'm thinking market value would be 3 1sts. 2-3 2nds, 2-3 3rds, 2-3 4ths, and a young stud. Whether I'd do that would depend on whether we could get griffin/jones/Barkley and what I thought of those guys.

Really wish we could just **** ourselves the rest of the year and see everyone else win at least 3 games. Miami and bengals games really screwed us.

Rolandftw
11-02-2011, 07:03 PM
Phil Simms doesn't think Luck has an NFL arm.

http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/33086157

vonqkilla
11-02-2011, 07:09 PM
Phil Simms doesn't think Luck has an NFL arm.

http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/33086157

He does not have Vicks arm, big deal.

He is throwing to Tes, Rbs, and 2 possession wrs. None of them burners, so yeah, he guides it in, given speed, he'll fire it as needed.

Rolandftw
11-02-2011, 07:11 PM
I agree. Luck will be a talent. Just don't think he's worth anywhere close to three first rounders.

GoBroncos84
11-02-2011, 07:27 PM
I don't know if any player in the league is worth 3 1st round draft picks. I would love to have Andrew Luck, no question, but that is too high a risk for me. Granted, Luck is labeled as an absolutely can't miss prospect and the highest graded player since Elway. But what if he doesn't live up to the hype, or if he suffers a major injury early in his career, or a series of other variables that could occur. If you spend that much on one player and it doesn't work out it could be a decade before the team fully recovers. Maybe you entertain the idea if you feel your team is "one player away" from being a championship team and you just need that franchise QB to put you over the top. The Denver Broncos have so many holes and depth issues right now, we simply cannot afford to give up those premium picks. We will probably have a top 10 pick in the draft. Would you honestly rather give up 3 first round picks to get Luck or give up nothing and just take Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, or RG3(whoever you personally grade higher)? I will take the top player on that board and keep my picks, even though I agree that Luck will be phenomenal.

TheReverend
11-02-2011, 08:17 PM
Yes there were. Up until Manning was announced as the first pick they were debating which one the Colts would/should take. Most thought Manning but there were many who said they would take Leaf.

...or not:

In the last three weeks, the Daily News polled a coach, GM or personnel director from 25 teams. The question: If you had the first pick, would you take Manning or Leaf? An overwhelming 20 said they would take Manning, three went for Leaf and two declined to give an opinion.

"If there is a more impressive guy in the country than Peyton Manning, I would be shocked," Bucs coach Tony Dungy said.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998-04-05/sports/18070614_1_manning-or-leaf-colts-president-bill-polian-manning-family

McDman
11-02-2011, 08:22 PM
Leaf had better upside. Manning was safer. Leaf had the body everybody liked. He had the strongest arm that anyone had seen since Jeff George. Manning had more above the shoulders, and a royal football pedigree.

If I remember correctly, the consensus moved toward Manning in the month before the draft. I can't remember what the reasoning behind that was. But it wasn't clear cut until that last month.

The jury is still out, but most people consider Manning to have had the better NFL career. :)

I'm still on the Leaf bandwagon, I just don't think he's been given enough time to develop properly.

Br0nc0Buster
11-02-2011, 09:07 PM
I'm still on the Leaf bandwagon, I just don't think he's been given enough time to develop properly.

he was sabotaged by his coaches and FO

[CoMoChief]
11-02-2011, 09:15 PM
LOL at people thinking Champ Bailey has strong trade value.

He's not a top tier CB in this league anymore and is declining by the year. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just really high.

FireFly
11-02-2011, 10:01 PM
I voted no.

But after reading through this thread I think my answer is yes. As much as it pains me to say it (or even think it) maybe Tebow isn't the answer... teams NEED very good QB's to be competitive in the modern NFL and it's not like we've had a great deal of success with our 1st round picks over the last 10 years!!

ChrisToker
11-02-2011, 10:38 PM
Trade KnoSho, Ayers, Tebow (every team wants a good FB, & sale a ****ton of jerseys from team store), and two 1st plus some combo of 3rds n 4ths to get some sucker team to bite. I would say at Tops 10 QB's in a 32 team league would have job security if their teams had a shot to draft a rookie Luck

DenverBroncosJM
11-02-2011, 10:38 PM
Double post

DenverBroncosJM
11-02-2011, 10:39 PM
I think a better question is if you are Miami or Indy would you take 3 1st?

I think Indy might but no way Miami does. Miami will have a new coach and that would right off the bat be how he is judged week in and week out is how well Luck is doing on another team.

Rolandftw
11-02-2011, 10:43 PM
;3355306']LOL at people thinking Champ Bailey has strong trade value.

He's not a top tier CB in this league anymore and is declining by the year. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just really high.

Champ Bailey probably doesn't have much trade value, but doubt Denver is looking to trade him anyways. But it's more due to his age then his performance. Stafford couldn't get the ball to Calvin Johnson until they moved him to the slot, from what I remember of the horror show last week.

Other then injury risks due to age, Champ is a great value at corner. Top ten easy, and ESPN voted him at #5 during the off-season. I imagine to lengthen his career he will get moved to safety as well.

teknic
11-02-2011, 10:45 PM
If all it will take is 3 firsts I'll do it without thinking twice about it. I'm thinking market value would be 3 1sts. 2-3 2nds, 2-3 3rds, 2-3 4ths, and a young stud. Whether I'd do that would depend on whether we could get griffin/jones/Barkley and what I thought of those guys.

Really wish we could just **** ourselves the rest of the year and see everyone else win at least 3 games. Miami and bengals games really screwed us.

Hilarious!

If any team would even consider that kind of trade, they deserve the years of terrible teams they will have to endure. First of all, no prospect (and arguably no veteran) is worth that kind of bounty. Luck has proven nothing in the NFL. Nadda. Zip. Everyone ready to crown him as the greatest of all time, just stop. He's a great prospect, but that does not equal a great NFL quarterback. I really would not wish it on anyone, but for all you know, he takes a low hit, blows out a knee and he would never be the same. Not to mention, how is a young QB going to survive with no talent around him? Trading away picks will definitely leave a talent deficit.

If Tebow doesn't work out, would I consider three first for Luck? No. Two firsts? Now I'm thinking about it. Really, I think it will more likely be a 1,2,2,3 + a player if the number one team decides to trade the pick. Maybe Barkley ends up the better pro, so would you rather get Barkley and use the saved picks to draft some talent around him, or pray that Luck can carry the team?

TDmvp
11-02-2011, 10:52 PM
As crappy as we are in so many places no way. Maybe if your a solid young team on both sides of the ball and just missing that IT Qb you want to run it , but not when your basically a pasta strainer on D and a O that can't block or produce...

No way I want a rock star Qb and crap protection and no 1st rounders to fix it.


One of the Bears issues after giving us what they did for Cutler was no picks to fill the holes around him . We don't just have holes we have black holes... (and I mean large dark places in outer space not , well I mean large dark places in space) :)

ChrisToker
11-02-2011, 11:09 PM
0-13 or some ish on 3rd down, 80% of teams inthis league will put up 30 points aginst you.

Mile High Mojoe
11-02-2011, 11:54 PM
The question then becomes what kind of team you can surround him with once you have him.

Exactly and can he survive the pressure and pounding he's sure to get? Seems like a big gamble that could send the Broncos into oblivion for years to come if he doesn't prove to be the super stud he's projected to be. 3 #1 seems crazy and as for who would go in a trade other than Miller who want any of the other Broncos in a major trade deal?

I think the whole idea of getting him is impossible because Denver won't get the first pick anyway and the team that does get it isn't about to let Luck get away at any price since the whole football world thinks he's the next big thing. I just hope Elway and X is working on another draft strategy that looks to fill the other big holes the Broncos have and there's plenty if the Luck thing isn't doable.