PDA

View Full Version : You know what?... I liked the playcalling.


teknic
10-30-2011, 10:59 PM
I've seen a lot of criticism of McCoy, some deserved and some not, after the loss today. I liked what he was trying to do with Tebow, but he failed to make adjustments when it wasn't working. He gave Tebow a bunch of throws out of the gun, and a lot of 2wr reads for him. There were some slants and posts, and plenty of play-action. I even saw a designed roll-out with a flood to the left.

After 2 games with Tebow, Mccoy has significantly stepped up his playcalling. It wasn't perfect, and we obviously didn't execute, but I liked what I saw from him. I wish he had mixed in a few drags and screens when they were sitting on the slants, but compared to the Miami game, the playcalling was phenomenal.

There were plays to be made on the field today, and I put the blame for our pathetic offense into three categories: dismal protection from the offensive line, terrible throws from Tebow, and an awful performance by our WRs. I never thought the Broncos would miss Lloyd as much as they did today, I was hoping the young receivers could step right in. Tebow was unable to move the offense for much of the game, and I saw entirely too many three and outs.

On the plays where the receivers got separation, the offensive line (looking at you Franklin) blew their assignments. When the offensive line gave Tebow a clean pocket, the receivers were either well covered or dropped very catchable balls. When the offensive line held their blocks and the receivers were open, Tebow was either running around frantically, or completely missing the throw. It was that bad today.

But hey, the sky isn't falling. We were never going to be a playoff team this season. Not even if you got down on one knee and started praying. Tebow just started his fifth game in the NFL. I can think of many great quarterbacks in the NFL that struggled early in their career. I don't know if Tebow will end up being a great QB in the NFL, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Let's give him the season to sink or swim, which I thought was the plan anyways. Evaluate Tebow over the entire season, giving him more and more game experience to improve. Once Tebow plays a few games, he should be able to acclimate to the NFL coverages and speed of the defenders, and we should have a better idea of if he can be the quarterback of the Broncos going forward. And perhaps if McCoy's playcalling continues to improve and he learns how to work with Tebow, maybe we can manage more than 10 points.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 11:02 PM
So you think the playcalling has improved? Really? Not sure what to say to that...

Ronnie Tsunami
10-30-2011, 11:04 PM
YOU PROVIDE FACTS SO I WILL COUNTER WITH NO SUBSTANTIAL ARGUMENT.

INSERT ROLL EYES ICON / ROFL ICON HERE

WHAT GAME WERE YOU WATCHING, MORON?

*Waits 3 minutes for posse to invade thread and blindly back me up*

Seriously though, nice informative post. Just expect the above to happen. Soon.

Edit: oop... beat me to it.

TheChamp24
10-30-2011, 11:06 PM
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/954-not-sure-if-serious.jpg

theAPAOps5
10-30-2011, 11:15 PM
YOU PROVIDE FACTS SO I WILL COUNTER WITH NO SUBSTANTIAL ARGUMENT.

INSERT ROLL EYES ICON / ROFL ICON HERE

WHAT GAME WERE YOU WATCHING, MORON?

*Waits 3 minutes for posse to invade thread and blindly back me up*

Seriously though, nice informative post. Just expect the above to happen. Soon.

Edit: oop... beat me to it.

You weren't good in school were you?

maher_tyler
10-30-2011, 11:16 PM
I strongly disagree! Our offense is about as predictable as it gets. We run on first down way to much. Every time we were spread out with no RB in the back field It was a QB draw! No TE seam routes or any type of plays to try to get them involved at all. Nobody even chipping/helping out Franklin! Clearly struggling to block his guy all game! We might not have much talent but there is zero creativity to try and get guys open! Hense what Detroit did with CJ!

Popps
10-31-2011, 12:23 AM
So you think the playcalling has improved? Really? Not sure what to say to that...

That's not a surprise because he laid out a logical argument using truths and facts instead of random hyperbole.

TDmvp
10-31-2011, 12:27 AM
http://images.mmorpg.com/features/5006/images/Hyperbole1.jpg

Agamemnon
10-31-2011, 12:33 AM
That's not a surprise because he laid out a logical argument using truths and facts instead of random hyperbole.

Fact: McCoy failed to call screens, max protect, or have a TE help Franklin, and therefore did nothing to counter Detroit's pass rush.

Fact: McCoy continuously called slow developing pass plays despite a clear inability to provide adequate protection for Tebow.

Fact: McCoy once again fell into a rut of running on most 1st downs, and was completely predictable based on formation.

But you keep ****ing that chicken...

Blart
10-31-2011, 12:42 AM
We ran option plays today, can't get more Tebow than that.

Popps
10-31-2011, 12:46 AM
We ran option plays today, can't get more Tebow than that.

Dude you're clueless. There is an entire section of our playbook dedicated to QBs that can't hit the side of a barn. See, you have to get them into a "rhythm.".
Eventually, he only misses guys by 3 yards instead of five.

McCoy just refused to use these winning plays because he's obviously in on the conspiracy.

TDmvp
10-31-2011, 12:52 AM
Tebow was the suck , and the play calling sucked just as bad.

Our coaches should really go back and watch film of how we used Jake Plummer.

A lot of that same stuff would be suited to help Tim.

Bootleg Pa not slow developing straight back Pa. , but roll outs where you give him half field reads and the option to run and more slants and crosses moving toward the side you roll to. That style of O also cause De's to think and play contain a lot instead of rushing which would EDIT (could) help our running game.


Tim is no where near the Qb Jake was at his best at this point , but I think a lot of the same stuff that made Jake get the best out of himself would maybe work with Tim.

Archer81
10-31-2011, 01:15 AM
Dude you're clueless. There is an entire section of our playbook dedicated to QBs that can't hit the side of a barn. See, you have to get them into a "rhythm.".
Eventually, he only misses guys by 3 yards instead of five.

McCoy just refused to use these winning plays because he's obviously in on the conspiracy.


Yes. The issue is Tebow. Not the horrid protection or predictability of the offense. Clearly Tebow and Tebow alone is responsible for getting sacked 7 times, having his receivers drop at minimum 5 passes or calling runs 75% of the goddamn time on first down.

All his fault.

:Broncos:

maher_tyler
10-31-2011, 02:06 AM
Yes. The issue is Tebow. Not the horrid protection or predictability of the offense. Clearly Tebow and Tebow alone is responsible for getting sacked 7 times, having his receivers drop at minimum 5 passes or calling runs 75% of the goddamn time on first down.

All his fault.

:Broncos:

Sometimes he just needs to get rid of the ball. Running around trying to improvise will work once in awhile but more times than not, bad things happen when he's running all over the place. Our oline would probably have a hard time blocking a manicin(sp?)..plays usually end up in sacks or holding penalties!

ol#7
10-31-2011, 02:18 AM
I thought he did get rid of the ball early in the ballgame and was pretty accurate through the first 3/4 of the game (putting the ball in the right place even though there wasnt much to show for it), but we had alot of low percentage type throws called (deep passes on 3rd and long).

I have never seen a WR give less effort than Eddie Royal lately, D.Thomas has this habit as well.

I also saw KM turn sideways and look at the end coming around before hitting the line. W.T.F.

BroncoMan4ever
10-31-2011, 02:46 AM
Tebow was the suck , and the play calling sucked just as bad.

Our coaches should really go back and watch film of how we used Jake Plummer.

A lot of that same stuff would be suited to help Tim.

Bootleg Pa not slow developing straight back Pa. , but roll outs where you give him half field reads and the option to run and more slants and crosses moving toward the side you roll to. That style of O also cause De's to think and play contain a lot instead of rushing which would EDIT (could) help our running game.


Tim is no where near the Qb Jake was at his best at this point , but I think a lot of the same stuff that made Jake get the best out of himself would maybe work with Tim.

i agree with the thought of dust off the old Plummer style offense for Tebow. but with that in mind there are things that Plummer had at his disposal that Tebow just doesn't have.

Plummer had a running game that was pretty damn consistent and ranked in the top 5-10 every year he played which took pressure off of him and allowed the playaction to work to its absolute best. Tebow has Moreno and Ball for the next few weeks, don't expect the play action plays to work all that well when the defense doesn't have to respect the run.

another thing Plummer had that Tebow doesn't. an opportunistic defense that was decent at forcing turnovers and giving the offense short fields on occasion while also limiting scoring. our current defense can't cause turnovers worth a **** and today also couldn't stop anyone from scoring.


also, an idea about using Moreno more to his abilities.

Moreno has horrendous field vision. he can seem to find a hole, he has no patience in letting his blocks develop. why not get him the ball in sweeps and toss plays to limit the amount of times he runs into the backs of his linemen when running inside?

his running style is seemingly get the ball and run. no looking for the hole or waiting for the linemen to open one up. avoid that mess and just get him the ball on the outside and let him run that way. play to the strengths he has and quit trying to make him into an inside runner. do that and more screen and dump off passes to him. Moreno is not an elite back and never will be, but if used properly he can still be of some use to the offense instead of the albatross he currently is.

BroncoMan4ever
10-31-2011, 02:52 AM
Sometimes he just needs to get rid of the ball. Running around trying to improvise will work once in awhile but more times than not, bad things happen when he's running all over the place. Our oline would probably have a hard time blocking a manicin(sp?)..plays usually end up in sacks or holding penalties!

i agree. i love the never say die way he plays, but the running around improvising is going to lead to turnovers and eventually injury for him. i have no problem with him using his mobility to extend a play, but he needs to learn it is ok to cut your losses and just throw it away. instead of ending up taking an unnecessary shot because he keeps holding onto the ball looking for an opening just extend the play long enough to throw it away and avoid the sack if there is nothing available

Hotwheelz
10-31-2011, 03:00 AM
REASON HAS NO PLACE HERE.

DBroncos4life
10-31-2011, 03:00 AM
Kyle Orton 5 starts 9 sacks
Tim Tebow 2 starts 14 sacks

I think Tebow is winning the RZ turnover battle as well.

cutthemdown
10-31-2011, 04:26 AM
Bronco fan logic 101

plays that work = great play calling
plays that don't = crappy play calling.

The Joker
10-31-2011, 04:43 AM
I tend to agree with the people saying that I'm not sure what exactly we could be doing differently from a playcalling perspective to get better production.

Tebow's was absolutely awful yesterday and while I do think it's stupid for anyone to write him off after just two starts, looking to blame it on absolutely anybody and everybody else is even more ridiculous.

He needs to improve A LOT between now and the end of the year, otherwise we'll quite rightly be looking for a new QB in the offseason.

fontaine
10-31-2011, 05:24 AM
1. McCoy didn't adjust to Cunningham bringing in blitzes the entire first half. We failed to go into max protect, even when it was clear Franklin/Beadles were getting overwhelmed.

2. On the fumble that led to Detroit recovering for a TD it was Franklin who allowed his guy to get past him and ofcourse, the revolving door we have in Beadles that completely whiffed on his block allowing the defender to get a clear shot at Tebow.

3. Yet no screens, delayed hand offs, TEs flaring out into the zones left by blitzers for a quick easy pass, no shallow crossing routes when the middle was empty because LBs/Safeties were blitzing. McCoy went Mike Martz. Go for the longer developing plays to Decker/Thomas along the sidelines and expect a young QB to stay in the pocket and take hits to complete those longer passes. That is a$$ and typical Mike Martz type of crap.

4. I didn't see (could be wrong) any designed rollouts, bootlegs, or stretch plays where Tebow rolls one way and the RB goes the other. All plays that are DESIGNED to take advantage of an over aggressive front 7 bringing the house on blitzes.

5. No quick passes to WRs at the line until 4-5 minutes left in the game where our bigger WRs like Decker/Thomas could run over defenders. Again plays that are designed to take advantage of defenders stacking the middle.

I'm not saying all of this is on McCoy, Tebow had some bad passes and the OL had it's worst performance all year. But the job of the OC is to counter an over aggressive defense.

McCoy failed to do that.

ShutDownPoster
10-31-2011, 05:49 AM
I've seen a lot of criticism of McCoy, some deserved and some not, after the loss today. I liked what he was trying to do with Tebow, but he failed to make adjustments when it wasn't working. He gave Tebow a bunch of throws out of the gun, and a lot of 2wr reads for him. There were some slants and posts, and plenty of play-action. I even saw a designed roll-out with a flood to the left.

After 2 games with Tebow, Mccoy has significantly stepped up his playcalling. It wasn't perfect, and we obviously didn't execute, but I liked what I saw from him. I wish he had mixed in a few drags and screens when they were sitting on the slants, but compared to the Miami game, the playcalling was phenomenal.

There were plays to be made on the field today, and I put the blame for our pathetic offense into three categories: dismal protection from the offensive line, terrible throws from Tebow, and an awful performance by our WRs. I never thought the Broncos would miss Lloyd as much as they did today, I was hoping the young receivers could step right in. Tebow was unable to move the offense for much of the game, and I saw entirely too many three and outs.

On the plays where the receivers got separation, the offensive line (looking at you Franklin) blew their assignments. When the offensive line gave Tebow a clean pocket, the receivers were either well covered or dropped very catchable balls. When the offensive line held their blocks and the receivers were open, Tebow was either running around frantically, or completely missing the throw. It was that bad today.

But hey, the sky isn't falling. We were never going to be a playoff team this season. Not even if you got down on one knee and started praying. Tebow just started his fifth game in the NFL. I can think of many great quarterbacks in the NFL that struggled early in their career. I don't know if Tebow will end up being a great QB in the NFL, but I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Let's give him the season to sink or swim, which I thought was the plan anyways. Evaluate Tebow over the entire season, giving him more and more game experience to improve. Once Tebow plays a few games, he should be able to acclimate to the NFL coverages and speed of the defenders, and we should have a better idea of if he can be the quarterback of the Broncos going forward. And perhaps if McCoy's playcalling continues to improve and he learns how to work with Tebow, maybe we can manage more than 10 points.

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uoghPts44Ng?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uoghPts44Ng?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

ColoradoDarin
10-31-2011, 06:14 AM
1. McCoy didn't adjust to Cunningham bringing in blitzes the entire first half. We failed to go into max protect, even when it was clear Franklin/Beadles were getting overwhelmed.

2. On the fumble that led to Detroit recovering for a TD it was Franklin who allowed his guy to get past him and ofcourse, the revolving door we have in Beadles that completely whiffed on his block allowing the defender to get a clear shot at Tebow.

3. Yet no screens, delayed hand offs, TEs flaring out into the zones left by blitzers for a quick easy pass, no shallow crossing routes when the middle was empty because LBs/Safeties were blitzing. McCoy went Mike Martz. Go for the longer developing plays to Decker/Thomas along the sidelines and expect a young QB to stay in the pocket and take hits to complete those longer passes. That is a$$ and typical Mike Martz type of crap.

4. I didn't see (could be wrong) any designed rollouts, bootlegs, or stretch plays where Tebow rolls one way and the RB goes the other. All plays that are DESIGNED to take advantage of an over aggressive front 7 bringing the house on blitzes.

5. No quick passes to WRs at the line until 4-5 minutes left in the game where our bigger WRs like Decker/Thomas could run over defenders. Again plays that are designed to take advantage of defenders stacking the middle.

I'm not saying all of this is on McCoy, Tebow had some bad passes and the OL had it's worst performance all year. But the job of the OC is to counter an over aggressive defense.

McCoy failed to do that.

rep

Rohirrim
10-31-2011, 06:35 AM
I thought the playcalling was immaterial. Tebow has very limited NFL level skills. He can't execute even basic NFL requirements of the position such as the quick slant, three step drop or timing routes. He seems to be unable to look beyond a single receiver before bolting out of the pocket. His receivers look like crap because by the time he gets around to them, the timing in their route has passed and now they're free lancing. To make up for Tebow's limited passing skills they would have to create distance between themselves and their coverage that is just not realistic in the NFL. His accuracy is pathetic. His touch on screen passes reminds me of Steve Sax. His spiral is non-existent. His footwork is primitive. He seems unable to read the defense or call out blitz assignments. His pocket awareness is pathetic and he makes up for it with athleticism. It is highly unlikely that, given his limited skill set, he could conduct a 50 yard drive, let alone the kind of 80 yard drives required of an NFL QB. But I can see why it's McCoy's fault. Really.

peacepipe
10-31-2011, 07:09 AM
I thought the playcalling was immaterial. Tebow has very limited NFL level skills. He can't execute even basic NFL requirements of the position such as the quick slant, three step drop or timing routes. He seems to be unable to look beyond a single receiver before bolting out of the pocket. His receivers look like crap because by the time he gets around to them, the timing in their route has passed and now they're free lancing. To make up for Tebow's limited passing skills they would have to create distance between themselves and their coverage that is just not realistic in the NFL. His accuracy is pathetic. His touch on screen passes reminds me of Steve Sax. His spiral is non-existent. His footwork is primitive. He seems unable to read the defense or call out blitz assignments. His pocket awareness is pathetic and he makes up for it with athleticism. It is highly unlikely that, given his limited skill set, he could conduct a 50 yard drive, let alone the kind of 80 yard drives required of an NFL QB. But I can see why it's McCoy's fault. Really.

rep

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:16 AM
1. McCoy didn't adjust to Cunningham bringing in blitzes the entire first half. We failed to go into max protect, even when it was clear Franklin/Beadles were getting overwhelmed.

2. On the fumble that led to Detroit recovering for a TD it was Franklin who allowed his guy to get past him and ofcourse, the revolving door we have in Beadles that completely whiffed on his block allowing the defender to get a clear shot at Tebow.

3. Yet no screens, delayed hand offs, TEs flaring out into the zones left by blitzers for a quick easy pass, no shallow crossing routes when the middle was empty because LBs/Safeties were blitzing. McCoy went Mike Martz. Go for the longer developing plays to Decker/Thomas along the sidelines and expect a young QB to stay in the pocket and take hits to complete those longer passes. That is a$$ and typical Mike Martz type of crap.

4. I didn't see (could be wrong) any designed rollouts, bootlegs, or stretch plays where Tebow rolls one way and the RB goes the other. All plays that are DESIGNED to take advantage of an over aggressive front 7 bringing the house on blitzes.

5. No quick passes to WRs at the line until 4-5 minutes left in the game where our bigger WRs like Decker/Thomas could run over defenders. Again plays that are designed to take advantage of defenders stacking the middle.

I'm not saying all of this is on McCoy, Tebow had some bad passes and the OL had it's worst performance all year. But the job of the OC is to counter an over aggressive defense.

McCoy failed to do that.

This. How do you not call about 20 screens with as much as teams are blitzing now?

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:19 AM
I thought the playcalling was immaterial. Tebow has very limited NFL level skills. He can't execute even basic NFL requirements of the position such as the quick slant, three step drop or timing routes. He seems to be unable to look beyond a single receiver before bolting out of the pocket. His receivers look like crap because by the time he gets around to them, the timing in their route has passed and now they're free lancing. To make up for Tebow's limited passing skills they would have to create distance between themselves and their coverage that is just not realistic in the NFL. His accuracy is pathetic. His touch on screen passes reminds me of Steve Sax. His spiral is non-existent. His footwork is primitive. He seems unable to read the defense or call out blitz assignments. His pocket awareness is pathetic and he makes up for it with athleticism. It is highly unlikely that, given his limited skill set, he could conduct a 50 yard drive, let alone the kind of 80 yard drives required of an NFL QB. But I can see why it's McCoy's fault. Really.

He has executed screens and quick timing routes here before. This was in the NFL. This coach refuses to call any and you claim he can't do it.

You are an idiot.

peacepipe
10-31-2011, 07:24 AM
He has executed screens and quick timing routes here before. This was in the NFL. This coach refuses to call any and you claim he can't do it.

You are an idiot.

,there were screens called. detroit sniffed them out. it's no secret to any team the broncos play that tebow relies on screens for a good chunk of plays, assuming he throws an accurate ball.

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:29 AM
,there were screens called. detroit sniffed them out. it's no secret to any team the broncos play that tebow relies on screens for a good chunk of plays, assuming he throws an accurate ball.

You don't even watch the games as you try to tell me what happened. It is sad.

Rohirrim
10-31-2011, 07:29 AM
He has executed screens and quick timing routes here before. This was in the NFL. This coach refuses to call any and you claim he can't do it.

You are an idiot.

And you are such a Tebow devotee that anything you say can be immediately ignored.

The Lions were getting their sacks and pressure from their line. Goonther had them stuffing the box and forcing Tebow to try and beat them with the pass, which he could not do. Screens would have been a waste of time in that situation. The ones that were called turned to crap for the main reason that the Oline couldn't hold any passing lanes open and Tebow has no touch. But yeah, that's what you should do when their line is kicking your ass all day, and you're having to double team just to hold Suh, pull a guard. :rofl:

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:33 AM
And you are such a Tebow devotee that anything you say can be immediately ignored.

The Lions were getting their sacks and pressure from their line. Goonther had them stuffing the box and forcing Tebow to try and beat them with the pass, which he could not do. Screens would have been a waste of time in that situation. The ones that were called turned to crap for the main reason that the Oline couldn't hold any passing lanes open and Tebow has no touch. But yeah, that's what you should do when their line is kicking your ass all day, and you're having to double team just to hold Suh, pull a guard. :rofl:

They had multiple blitzes where 6+ guys came and screems would have killed them. In fact, that is over half of their defensive plays.

Tebow completes screens with ease last year. This year, we don't call any and you say he can't throw screens. Genius! You aren't just a hatr that has been talking **** for weeks or anything!

You are a clown.

Jetmeck
10-31-2011, 07:35 AM
I thought the playcalling was immaterial. Tebow has very limited NFL level skills. He can't execute even basic NFL requirements of the position such as the quick slant, three step drop or timing routes. He seems to be unable to look beyond a single receiver before bolting out of the pocket. His receivers look like crap because by the time he gets around to them, the timing in their route has passed and now they're free lancing. To make up for Tebow's limited passing skills they would have to create distance between themselves and their coverage that is just not realistic in the NFL. His accuracy is pathetic. His touch on screen passes reminds me of Steve Sax. His spiral is non-existent. His footwork is primitive. He seems unable to read the defense or call out blitz assignments. His pocket awareness is pathetic and he makes up for it with athleticism. It is highly unlikely that, given his limited skill set, he could conduct a 50 yard drive, let alone the kind of 80 yard drives required of an NFL QB. But I can see why it's McCoy's fault. Really.

Why is it you see past the BS on politics but are being blind as a post to the pitiful playcalling the last two weeks. Every OC knows and even a DB named John Lynch who was in the booth for Fox knows that you need some short passes or screens against an aggressive D line. Do you seriously want to dispute this ?

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:36 AM
Why is it you see past the BS on politics but are being blind as a post to the pitiful playcalling the last two weeks. Every OC knows and even a DB named John Lynch who was in the booth for Fox knows that you need some short passes or screens against an aggressive D line. Do you seriously want to dispute this ?

Yeah, Lynch talked about this throughout the game. It is pretty basic stuff...

Rohirrim
10-31-2011, 07:38 AM
They had multiple blitzes where 6+ guys came and screems would have killed them. In fact, that is over half of their defensive plays.

Tebow completes screens with ease last year. This year, we don't call any and you say he can't throw screens. Genius! You aren't just a hatr that has been talking **** for weeks or anything!

You are a clown.

I guess you're starting to realize that your true love has left you at the altar. Poor little biatch.

Yeah, I liked that screen pass Tebow threw to Knowshon last week. Ten feet over his head. There was another one he went for yesterday except that the DE was shoving Clady into his face so instead of tossing it, he had to run for his life. Yeah, call more screens! That will save us!

Tebow would have won that game easily if only McCoy had run more screens.

Rohirrim
10-31-2011, 07:43 AM
Why is it you see past the BS on politics but are being blind as a post to the pitiful playcalling the last two weeks. Every OC knows and even a DB named John Lynch who was in the booth for Fox knows that you need some short passes or screens against an aggressive D line. Do you seriously want to dispute this ?

Lynch was also consistently calling out Tebow for his lousy mechanics, too. Do you dispute this? Can Tebow manage a three step drop and a quick slant? Lynch pointed out, on the play they tried it, how Tim's feet were in the wrong position. How do you guys think all these mystical screens are going to work when their front four is dominating the line of scrimmage? You going to pull a guard and invite Suh into the backfield? All we've got going here is a bunch of Tebow apologists who can't deal with the reality that their guy is not an NFL QB.

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:45 AM
I guess you're starting to realize that your true love has left you at the altar. Poor little biatch.

Yeah, I liked that screen pass Tebow threw to Knowshon last week. Ten feet over his head. There was another one he went for yesterday except that the DE was shoving Clady into his face so instead of tossing it, he had to run for his life. Yeah, call more screens! That will save us!

Tebow would have won that game easily if only McCoy had run more screens.

Haters gonna hate.

You hate Tebow, so you can't be rational. Lynch talked about this throughout the game. I'm sure I'm just making stuff up though. Maybe Lynch just doesn't understand football...

And yes, he said this while critisizinv Tebows performance.

You are a clown.

Spider
10-31-2011, 07:45 AM
He has executed screens and quick timing routes here before. This was in the NFL. This coach refuses to call any and you claim he can't do it.

You are an idiot.

you listen to the TV announcers to much , at best we could have tried a bubble screen , but the Lions LBers wasnt getting caught in any kind of wash ,hard to screen with that happening

Rohirrim
10-31-2011, 07:46 AM
Haters gonna hate.

You hate Tebow, so you can't be rational. Lynch talked about this throughout the game. I'm sure I'm just making stuff up though. Maybe Lynch just doesn't understand football...

And yes, he said this while critisizinv Tebows performance.

You are a clown.

Yeah. Lynch said the Broncos should go to a full screen offense. Yeah. I heard that too.

****ing idiot.

peacepipe
10-31-2011, 07:47 AM
You don't even watch the games as you try to tell me what happened. It is sad.WTF are you talking about! living here in florida I've watched every game tebow has played. I've probably watched more of his games than you have & I'll include college games as well.

Spider
10-31-2011, 07:48 AM
Haters gonna hate.

You hate Tebow, so you can't be rational. Lynch talked about this throughout the game. I'm sure I'm just making stuff up though. Maybe Lynch just doesn't understand football...

And yes, he said this while critisizinv Tebows performance.

You are a clown.

No Lynch didnt , but he was talking about getting Tebow in a rythem , to set up 3-5 step drop passes , and with the way the second level was clean the entire game ,, not sure if that would have worked ....

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:48 AM
you listen to the TV announcers to much , at best we could have tried a bubble screen , but the Lions LBers wasnt getting caught in any kind of wash ,hard to screen with that happening

Nope, I just understand football. You obviously don't.

When they are sending 6+ on multiple plays, just about any screen will work. Of course, you could claim Tebow can't execute a play he has executed perfectly here, multiple times...

What an intelligent bunch.

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:50 AM
Yeah. Lynch said the Broncos should go to a full screen offense. Yeah. I heard that too.

****ing idiot.

That isn't close to what I said. You claim I am an idiot as you show you can't read.

Drama queen hater.

Spider
10-31-2011, 07:50 AM
Nope, I just understand football. You obviously don't.

When they are sending 6+ on multiple plays, just about any screen will work. Of course, you could claim Tebow can't execute a play he has executed perfectly here, multiple times...

What an intelligent bunch.

LMAO , if you say so ......

Play2win
10-31-2011, 07:51 AM
I loved the playcalling at the very end of the game. The short passes, trying for screens, slants-- I love the slant. I would love to see TEs sprinting across the middle.

As far as I am concerned, the more our passing attack can look like the West Coast Offense, the better. Especially for Tebow.

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:52 AM
WTF are you talking about! living here in florida I've watched every game tebow has played. I've probably watched more of his games than you have & I'll include college games as well.

Who cares about college? You don't know what happened in this seasons games. You just proved this. You either don't watch or have no clue what you are watching.

Spider
10-31-2011, 07:54 AM
I loved the playcalling at the very end of the game. The short passes, trying for screens, slants-- I love the slant. I would love to see TEs sprinting across the middle.

As far as I am concerned, the more our passing attack can look like the West Coast Offense, the better. Especially for Tebow.

well i wanted to see more draws out of the shotgun butI doubt they would have worked , we wasnt getting that lions d off thier feet

jhns
10-31-2011, 07:54 AM
LMAO , if you say so ......

I agree with HOF player John Lynch. You agree with a bunch of drama queens that just want to cry about Tebow.

Good luck with that.

Spider
10-31-2011, 07:57 AM
I agree with HOF player John Lynch. You agree with a bunch of drama queens that just want to cry about Tebow.

Good luck with that.

Yeah . ok .......LMAO .whatever you say , this is just like your man crush with cutler , everyone else is to blame but your hero .. Tebow did complete a screen and it took 1 hellva effort from Decker to make it work ...... But hey a man crush is a man crush .. stupid Mccoy is in on the conspircay

TheChamp24
10-31-2011, 08:00 AM
And how many times must it be said? You need to run a spread type offense with Tebow.
4 WR/TE's out there to spread the defense and have quick passes with runs mixed in.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:00 AM
Fox ,mcCoy , Bowlen , Elway , they are all involved , they are all part of the Anti Tebow conspiracy , Soon they will get Lynch and get him involved ......

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:00 AM
Yeah . ok .......LMAO .whatever you say , this is just like your man crush with cutler , everyone else is to blame but your hero .. Tebow did complete a screen and it took 1 hellva effort from Decker to make it work ...... But hey a man crush is a man crush .. stupid Mccoy is in on the conspircay

Who said there was a conspiracy? We have a bad coordinator. It happens all the time. Do you think he is good? Which of his offenses have you liked the most? The ones ranked in the bottom half of the league, or the one ranked near the very bottom?

bronclvr
10-31-2011, 08:01 AM
I am shocked to see Tebow having the problems he is having-he demonstrated accuracy last Year, and has just regressed to the point that the haters are crowing. His inability to read Defenses is kind of understandable, but his accuracy issues are what have me bothered the most, although there were so many dropped passes yesterday that he isn't the only one to blame.

I am still a Tebow fan, and I hope that he picks it up and proves everyone who disbelieves that they are incorrect (or, I'm going to eat some serious crow with my buddies). If they are correct, what a waste of a person who could be a great role model (on a grand stage)-

As Jerry Reid sang "He has a long way to go, and a short time to get there"-oh well, on to next week-

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:05 AM
I am shocked to see Tebow having the problems he is having-he demonstrated accuracy last Year, and has just regressed to the point that the haters are crowing. His inability to read Defenses is kind of understandable, but his accuracy issues are what have me bothered the most, although there were so many dropped passes yesterday that he isn't the only one to blame.

I am still a Tebow fan, and I hope that he picks it up and proves everyone who disbelieves that they are incorrect (or, I'm going to eat some serious crow with my buddies). If they are correct, what a waste of a person who could be a great role model (on a grand stage)-

As Jerry Reid sang "He has a long way to go, and a short time to get there"-oh well, on to next week-

LOL I see so if someone points out Tebow just isnt getting the job done , they are haters ..... it is so much more then that , I wanted tebow to sit this year , take a few snaps here and there , tried to tell everyone Tebow wasnt Ready , Elway even tried to tell people , as far as am concerned , The fan base pouted till they got Tebow , they can live with the growing pains ....
I think Tebow has what it takes , but it is going to take alot longer then the prissy ass bunch of Bronco fans can wait

barryr
10-31-2011, 08:05 AM
If you watch the Steelers and Pats, they employ a lot of shotgun on 1st and 2nd down, spread offense and mix in short passes, screens, and the occasional long bombs. With what I see with the Broncos, is a conservative Dan Reeves type of offense with the QB under center and the QB waiting for receivers to run 15+ yard patterns. I don't know of any QB who would be successful in such an offense, both Orton and Tebow clearly aren't, but if going to use that system again next year, then they will need another QB. Of course that system will not work, so new coach and new OC would be coming soon too.

fontaine
10-31-2011, 08:05 AM
I thought the playcalling was immaterial. Tebow has very limited NFL level skills. He can't execute even basic NFL requirements of the position such as the quick slant,


False, Tebow has made several passes like this to Decker/Royal over the past two weeks.

three step drop or timing routes.

False, tebow has thrown passes based on timing (like splitting under/over coverage). Quick passes based on short dropbacks (like the Decker TD in 2nd half which was a quick timing based pass as soon as the ball was snapped.

He seems to be unable to look beyond a single receiver before bolting out of the pocket. His receivers look like crap because by the time he gets around to them, the timing in their route has passed and now they're free lancing.

Again false, that TD throw, and other passes to the sidelines in the first drive and later in the game, on the money timing passes where only his WRs could make the grab.

To make up for Tebow's limited passing skills they would have to create distance between themselves and their coverage that is just not realistic in the NFL. His accuracy is pathetic. His touch on screen passes reminds me of Steve Sax. His spiral is non-existent. His footwork is primitive. He seems unable to read the defense or call out blitz assignments. His pocket awareness is pathetic and he makes up for it with athleticism. It is highly unlikely that, given his limited skill set, he could conduct a 50 yard drive, let alone the kind of 80 yard drives required of an NFL QB. But I can see why it's McCoy's fault. Really.

Tebow's thrown two very good touch passes to Fells/Moreno on screens that resulted in TDs.

Look the point is that every young QB will struggle, look hesitant and lost when the pass protection isn't there, WRs aren't consistently getting open or under continious pressure from outside/inside/delayed blitzes.

This isn't something new, and Tebow isn't going to overcome that by himself. It's just going to take time and a lot of reps week after week after week.

To say RIGHT NOW, he can't do something is very very short sighted.

Put it another way: Other draft picks get two/three years to develop and show what they can do.

Why should Tebow be any different?

oubronco
10-31-2011, 08:09 AM
I thought the playcalling was immaterial. Tebow has very limited NFL level skills. He can't execute even basic NFL requirements of the position such as the quick slant, three step drop or timing routes. He seems to be unable to look beyond a single receiver before bolting out of the pocket. His receivers look like crap because by the time he gets around to them, the timing in their route has passed and now they're free lancing. To make up for Tebow's limited passing skills they would have to create distance between themselves and their coverage that is just not realistic in the NFL. His accuracy is pathetic. His touch on screen passes reminds me of Steve Sax. His spiral is non-existent. His footwork is primitive. He seems unable to read the defense or call out blitz assignments. His pocket awareness is pathetic and he makes up for it with athleticism. It is highly unlikely that, given his limited skill set, he could conduct a 50 yard drive, let alone the kind of 80 yard drives required of an NFL QB. But I can see why it's McCoy's fault. Really.

This is the real problem

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:09 AM
Who said there was a conspiracy? We have a bad coordinator. It happens all the time. Do you think he is good? Which of his offenses have you liked the most? The ones ranked in the bottom half of the league, or the one ranked near the very bottom?

LOL actually neither , I want an offense that is goin to mature my young QB ,IE cut the verbage , basic audibles 3-5 step drops 1-2 wr sets 2 back power I and get him in a rythem , but of course the young QB has to use the basic skills he has been learning since childhood

barryr
10-31-2011, 08:10 AM
And where is Royal? Where has he been the last 3 years now? He is showing to be pretty useless. Can he beat any CB's in man coverage? Did Orton and now Tebow just miss him being open all the time and refused to throw him the ball? For as much speed as Royal is said to have, he sure plays slow.

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:10 AM
LOL actually neither , I want an offense that is goin to mature my young QB ,IE cut the verbage , basic audibles 3-5 step drops 1-2 wr sets 2 back power I and get him in a rythem , but of course the young QB has to use the basic skills he has been learning since childhood

So you don't like the coordinator but troll anyone that questions that coordinator?

Only you are smart enough to pull this off...

Pick Six
10-31-2011, 08:12 AM
The bootlegs essentially ended when Kubiak left. That's when Plummer started having trouble. The offensive genius was gone, and it wasn't Shanahan. Unfortunately, we have zero chance of getting Kubiak back. The Texans are on their way to winning their division...:-[

Play2win
10-31-2011, 08:12 AM
well i wanted to see more draws out of the shotgun butI doubt they would have worked , we wasnt getting that lions d off thier feet

Its hard when you don't have a real running back you can depend on. Missing McGahee was big.

barryr
10-31-2011, 08:13 AM
Those backing McCoy need to look at the Bronco numbers while Orton was at QB. They were hardly lighting things up then either. The play designs are not much that I can see. When you see CB's jumping on routes, one can easily see that the Bronco receivers do not run complicated pass routes at all and this has been a problem going back to last season too. If you are easy to study on tape, you have problems. Royal is open? Thomas is open? The TE's are open?

I watch the Pats and Steelers and they seem to have receivers open all over the field, in sho0rt or long pass routes.

Traveler
10-31-2011, 08:16 AM
I thought the playcalling was immaterial. Tebow has very limited NFL level skills. He can't execute even basic NFL requirements of the position such as the quick slant, three step drop or timing routes. He seems to be unable to look beyond a single receiver before bolting out of the pocket. His receivers look like crap because by the time he gets around to them, the timing in their route has passed and now they're free lancing. To make up for Tebow's limited passing skills they would have to create distance between themselves and their coverage that is just not realistic in the NFL. His accuracy is pathetic. His touch on screen passes reminds me of Steve Sax. His spiral is non-existent. His footwork is primitive. He seems unable to read the defense or call out blitz assignments. His pocket awareness is pathetic and he makes up for it with athleticism. It is highly unlikely that, given his limited skill set, he could conduct a 50 yard drive, let alone the kind of 80 yard drives required of an NFL QB. But I can see why it's McCoy's fault. Really.

Guess this kind of vindicates Elway and company. There said early and often that Tebow was very raw. Not saying Tebow is a failure, but he has a long way to go before he becomes an efficient pro QB. Not sure Denver has that kind of time or coaches needed to train him properly.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:18 AM
So you don't like the coordinator but troll anyone that questions that coordinator?

Only you are smart enough to pull this off...

didnt say I didnt like the O Cord , and with the personel we got , the O I wanted to see is a stretch , but with that said , I wanted to see tebow keep composure , use the basics , look I am not a tebow hater , the boy stepped up in the pocket knowing he was going to get pelted , and threw the ball , I also noted Tebow is starting to look more down field on to throw when he runs , last week Tebow showed the never say die attitude , I am not saying Tebow isnt going to make it , what I am saying is , blaming this ,person , or that person , just isnt getting it done , this here is growing pains , and something else you forgot to mention Genius , That Lions D is one hellva D , we wasnt getting them off their feet , we wasnt creating a wash ..... How in the **** do you or Lynch expect screens to work when we are not doing these things ?
How many ineligible linemen down field penalties did we have ?

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:20 AM
Its hard when you don't have a real running back you can depend on. Missing McGahee was big.

agreed , but doesnt matter we needed a Barry Sanders , I mean all the D line men were standing , Linebackers were clean . But of course according to the football guru aka Jhns , screens would have fixed that ..somehow

Play2win
10-31-2011, 08:20 AM
Guess this kind of vindicates Elway and company. There said early and often that Tebow was very raw. Not saying Tebow is a failure, but he has a long way to go before he becomes an efficient pro QB. Not sure Denver has that kind of time or coaches needed to train him properly.

TBH, Tebow looks like a scout team QB, if that.

Play2win
10-31-2011, 08:21 AM
agreed , but doesnt matter we needed a Barry Sanders , I mean all the D line men were standing , Linebackers were clean . But of course according to the football guru aka Jhns , screens would have fixed that ..somehow

Agreed.

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:21 AM
didnt say I didnt like the O Cord , and with the personel we got , the O I wanted to see is a stretch , but with that said , I wanted to see tebow keep composure , use the basics , look I am not a tebow hater , the boy stepped up in the pocket knowing he was going to get pelted , and threw the ball , I also noted Tebow is starting to look more down field on to throw when he runs , last week Tebow showed the never say die attitude , I am not saying Tebow isnt going to make it , what I am saying is , blaming this ,person , or that person , just isnt getting it done , this here is growing pains , and something else you forgot to mention Genius , That Lions D is one hellva D , we wasnt getting them off their feet , we wasnt creating a wash ..... How in the **** do you or Lynch expect screens to work when we are not doing these things ?
How many ineligible linemen down field penalties did we have ?

Learn English. I can't even follow you cluster **** of a post.

You either like what the offensive coordinator of a horrible offense is doing, or you agree with me. Tebow haters hate reality. I haven't seen anyone defending Tebows play. The haters are defending a coordinator that has never had a good offense though. Tebow haters are clowns.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:24 AM
well here is the rub folks , tebow is Raw , and he doesnt keep his basics , we dont have blocking wr , our Fullback played as a Linebacker for us , our oline hasnt gelled , and our TE doesnt dominate the Hashmarks ..... but somehow , some way screens are going to save us ....... LOL I love this place

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:25 AM
Learn English. I can't even follow you cluster **** of a post.

You either like what the offensive coordinator of a horrible offense is doing, or you agree with me. Tebow haters hate reality. I haven't seen anyone defending Tebows play. The haters are defending a coordinator that has never had a good offense though. Tebow haters are clowns.

if you cant follow then bail junior ...... cause what i said is pretty easy to follow

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:25 AM
agreed , but doesnt matter we needed a Barry Sanders , I mean all the D line men were standing , Linebackers were clean . But of course according to the football guru aka Jhns , screens would have fixed that ..somehow

It is obvious that you didn't watch the game, troll.

They just had guys stsnding around, doing nothing? Really?

Those plays where they lined everyone up at the line and rushed 6+ guys, were plays where the linebackers just stood around?

You are right though. John Lynch doesn't understand the basics. You clearly know more than him.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:26 AM
LOL jhns , you claim to know alot about ball , did I lose you on the wash thing ? if so i can dumb it down

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:27 AM
if you cant follow then bail junior ...... cause what i said is pretty easy to follow

Wtf are you even trying to say? Do you ever try reading your posts?

It is pretty obvious why you became a truck driver...

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:28 AM
It is obvious that you didn't watch the game, troll.

They just had guys stsnding around, doing nothing? Really?

Those plays where they lined everyone up at the line and rushed 6+ guys, were plays where the linebackers just stood around?

You are right though. John Lynch doesn't understand the basics. You clearly know more than him.

yeah ok ....answer the question , when we are not creating a wash on the Linebackers , Linemen standing , how does a screen work ?

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:29 AM
Wtf are you even trying to say? Do you ever try reading your posts?

It is pretty obvious why you became a truck driver...

just answer the question genius

Rohirrim
10-31-2011, 08:29 AM
False, Tebow has made several passes like this to Decker/Royal over the past two weeks.



False, tebow has thrown passes based on timing (like splitting under/over coverage). Quick passes based on short dropbacks (like the Decker TD in 2nd half which was a quick timing based pass as soon as the ball was snapped.



Again false, that TD throw, and other passes to the sidelines in the first drive and later in the game, on the money timing passes where only his WRs could make the grab.



Tebow's thrown two very good touch passes to Fells/Moreno on screens that resulted in TDs.

Look the point is that every young QB will struggle, look hesitant and lost when the pass protection isn't there, WRs aren't consistently getting open or under continious pressure from outside/inside/delayed blitzes.

This isn't something new, and Tebow isn't going to overcome that by himself. It's just going to take time and a lot of reps week after week after week.

To say RIGHT NOW, he can't do something is very very short sighted.

Put it another way: Other draft picks get two/three years to develop and show what they can do.

Why should Tebow be any different?

For every one of these passes you pluck out that worked I can pull out five that didn't, or looked downright ridiculous. What a QB should show is improvement from game to game. We all know that these questions about his passing, footwork, timing are not new. Supposedly, he worked all off season with his own coaches to help him. I imagine he's been getting consistent coaching on those same elements since he's been on the Broncos. There are too many QBs coming in out of college able to play the game at a much higher level than Tebow. No team can afford to wait years for somebody with as many issues as Tebow has to turn it around.

People on this board try to compare Tebow's early troubles with Elway's. But from the first game that Elway went in to relieve DeBerg, everybody was writing about his arm. That was evident right out of the gate. He was already making passes that would electrify the crowd. The plays I have seen Tebow do that are when he runs. That would be great if he was an Hback or something. But his passing looks dreadful. Hell, even his long balls wobble like something Billy Kilmer's. And this is a passing league.

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:31 AM
LOL jhns , you claim to know alot about ball , did I lose you on the wash thing ? if so i can dumb it down

LOL

As if you could teach me anything.

It is pretty clear that you don't even know what we are saying. Keep thinking you know more than Lynch though. I'm sure you can try making the case that he is just a dumb player... Of course, everyone will laugh at you for saying it.

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:34 AM
For every one of these passes you pluck out that worked I can pull out five that didn't, or looked downright ridiculous. What a QB should show is improvement from game to game. We all know that these questions about his passing, footwork, timing are not new. Supposedly, he worked all off season with his own coaches to help him. I imagine he's been getting consistent coaching on those same elements since he's been on the Broncos. There are too many QBs coming in out of college able to play the game at a much higher level than Tebow. No team can afford to wait years for somebody with as many issues as Tebow has to turn it around.

People on this board try to compare Tebow's early troubles with Elway's. But from the first game that Elway went in to relieve DeBerg, everybody was writing about his arm. That was evident right out of the gate. He was already making passes that would electrify the crowd. The plays I have seen Tebow do that are when he runs. That would be great if he was an Hback or something. But his passing looks dreadful. Hell, even his long balls wobble like something Billy Kilmer's. And this is a passing league.

I can name you all kinds of stuff! Trust me, even though I can't give a single example!

LOL...

Keep defending McCoy. I'm sure he'll get an offense ranked in the top half of the league at some point in his career. I mean, he is such a great game planner and play caller...

Clown.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:34 AM
LOL

As if you could teach me anything.

It is pretty clear that you don't even know what we are saying. Keep thinking you know more than Lynch though. I'm sure you can try making the case that he is just a dumb player... Of course, everyone will laugh at you for saying it.

well you are saying the same thing about Elway , Lynch know more about QBing then Elway ? Elway tried to tell people about tebow , no one listened , yet lynch says something positive about Tebow , all of the sudden Lynch genius , Elway hater ......

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:35 AM
I can name you all kinds of stuff! Trust me, even though I can't give a single example!

LOL...

Keep defending McCoy. I'm sure he'll get an offense ranked in the top half of the league at some point in his career. I mean, he is such a great game planner and play caller...

Clown.

speaking of Clowns , answer my question genius ....... pretty simple question for a bright guy like you

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:37 AM
well you are saying the same thing about Elway , Lynch know more about QBing then Elway ? Elway tried to tell people about tebow , no one listened , yet lynch says something positive about Tebow , all of the sudden Lynch genius , Elway hater ......

LOL

You think Elway calls the plays?

LOL

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:38 AM
speaking of Clowns , answer my question genius ....... pretty simple question for a bright guy like you

Sorry, I only understand English.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:44 AM
Sorry, I only understand English.

thought so , you dont have an answer , Lynch didnt go that deep ..... well ok .....it wouldnt have worked , the screen that turned into a TD was all on Decker , The Lions Defense was playing short , and when you got a D doing that , and our O is not getting them off thier feet and offense not hitting Deep , well ...And all Lynch was talking about was using Screens to get Tebow in a rythem , that is all ....

fontaine
10-31-2011, 08:44 AM
For every one of these passes you pluck out that worked I can pull out five that didn't, or looked downright ridiculous. What a QB should show is improvement from game to game. We all know that these questions about his passing, footwork, timing are not new. Supposedly, he worked all off season with his own coaches to help him. I imagine he's been getting consistent coaching on those same elements since he's been on the Broncos. There are too many QBs coming in out of college able to play the game at a much higher level than Tebow. No team can afford to wait years for somebody with as many issues as Tebow has to turn it around.


Yes you're right, for every one good pass, he's got another poor one. Some of the other passes are due to WRs dropping passes, OL issues and so on.

QBs should improve game to game but you know, and I know that's not the reality. Young QB's face different fronts, coverages, matchups and alignments every week. Last week against Miami they used a spy with delayed blitzes by Yeremiah Bell/Dansby, last game it was aggressive two/three blitzers all first half from the outside and up the middle with a stacked front.

Yes, we can expect him to improve, but honestly, did we expect Ayers/Moreno/A Smith/R Quinn/Von/Walton/Beadles to improve week to week?

C'mon now, let's be honest here. People in the business know it takes at least two years for a young QB to develop and start getting more comfortable.

Why should Tebow be any different?

Let's wait for the season to be finished before we start throwing around "he can't, he's a bust, etc etc."

We've got no one else to turn to since Quinn/Orton are gone after this year.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:45 AM
LOL

You think Elway calls the plays?

LOL

huh ? I think Elway knows the QB position and what it takes to be a QB .... of course I would have to ask Lynch about that ...

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:45 AM
thought so , you dont have an answer , Lynch didnt go that deep ..... well ok .....it wouldnt have worked , the screen that turned into a TD was all on Decker , The Lions Defense was playing short , and when you got a D doing that , and our O is not getting them off thier feet and offense not hitting Deep , well ...And all Lynch was talking about was using Screens to get Tebow in a rythem , that is all ....

You don't know the basics of this sport.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:46 AM
Yes you're right, for every one good pass, he's got another poor one. Some of the other passes are due to WRs dropping passes, OL issues and so on.

QBs should improve game to game but you know, and I know that's not the reality. Young QB's face different fronts, coverages, matchups and alignments every week. Last week against Miami they used a spy with delayed blitzes by Yeremiah Bell/Dansby, last game it was aggressive two/three blitzers all first half from the outside and up the middle with a stacked front.

Yes, we can expect him to improve, but honestly, did we expect Ayers/Moreno/A Smith/R Quinn/Von/Walton/Beadles to improve week to week?

C'mon now, let's be honest here. People in the business know it takes at least two years for a young QB to develop and start getting more comfortable.

Why should Tebow be any different?

Let's wait for the season to be finished before we start throwing around "he can't, he's a bust, etc etc."

We've got no one else to turn to since Quinn/Orton are gone after this year.

Yeah , I agree , Lions had one hellva D , I havent got to see many lions games , but they are dayum good

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:46 AM
huh ? I think Elway knows the QB position and what it takes to be a QB .... of course I would have to ask Lynch about that ...

LOL

You think Elway calls the plays. What a dumb ****.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:47 AM
LOL

You think Elway calls the plays. What a dumb ****.

ok ...... if thats what you are going to run with .... face it everyone has out classed you on this thread , post like this are not helping you save face

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:48 AM
You don't know the basics of this sport.

Lynch tell you that ?

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:48 AM
ok ...... if thats what you are going to run with .... face it everyone has out classed you on this thread , post like this are not helping you save face

You are the one claiming Elway calls plays.

Dumb.

deltbucs
10-31-2011, 08:49 AM
Yes you're right, for every one good pass, he's got another poor one. Some of the other passes are due to WRs dropping passes, OL issues and so on.


Can you really blame the WR's for dropping some of those balls? I could throw a better spiral with my left foot. And you can't really blame the OL when he sits in the pocket for a few seconds and then his pocket presence consists of him spinning around in a 360.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:50 AM
You are the one claiming Elway calls plays.

Dumb.

show me where I made that claim ?

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:53 AM
Can you really blame the WR's for dropping some of those balls? I could throw a better spiral with my left foot. And you can't really blame the OL when he sits in the pocket for a few seconds and then his pocket presence consists of him spinning around in a 360.

true , but tebow will settle down , I still think tebow will be a top hand in this leaue , but it is obvious he wasnt ready ..... But the Billboard gang got what they wanted ......

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:54 AM
show me where I made that claim ?

You are bringing Elway up in an argument about playcalling. You are talking about what Lynch said, as you talk about Elway. So, what are you trying to claim then? What does Elway have to do with the horrible play calling?

deltbucs
10-31-2011, 08:55 AM
true , but tebow will settle down , I still think tebow will be a top hand in this leaue , but it is obvious he wasnt ready ..... But the Billboard gang got what they wanted ......

Based on what? Obviously not on his performance the last 2 weeks.

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:56 AM
well you are saying the same thing about Elway , Lynch know more about QBing then Elway ? Elway tried to tell people about tebow , no one listened , yet lynch says something positive about Tebow , all of the sudden Lynch genius , Elway hater ......

See? I talk about play calling. Lynch talks about the play calling. You respond with this.

You are a moron.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:56 AM
You are bringing Elway up in an argument about playcalling. You are talking about what Lynch said, as you talk about Elway. So, what are you trying to claim then? What does Elway have to do with the horrible play calling?

and this means I made the claim elway called the plays ? your ass has got to hurt after pulling this gem out . go back reread . good gravy

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:57 AM
See? I talk about play calling. Lynch talks about the play calling. You respond with this.

You are a moron.
no play calling is going to save a qb THAT ISNT READY .... Elway knew this , Lynch did not

jhns
10-31-2011, 08:57 AM
and this means I made the claim elway called the plays ? your ass has got to hurt after pulling this gem out . go back reread . good gravy

I just quoted it for you. You are so stupid that you don't even know what you are saying. Sad stuff.

Spider
10-31-2011, 08:59 AM
LMAO just cause I brought up Elway saying Tebow wasnt ready doesnt mean I said Elway called the plays you goof ....... you always twist and turn when you lose an argument

deltbucs
10-31-2011, 09:00 AM
An honest question from an outsider......


Is Tebow allowed to call audibles? Can he make checks for hot reads?

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:03 AM
An honest question from an outsider......


Is Tebow allowed to call audibles? Can he make checks for hot reads?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on both ... But those will take time

jhns
10-31-2011, 09:05 AM
LMAO just cause I brought up Elway saying Tebow wasnt ready doesnt mean I said Elway called the plays you goof ....... you always twist and turn when you lose an argument

Then what is the crap about him being smarter than Lynch? When did Elway say anything about the play calling? Elway would have to be calling the plays for that response to make any sense.

No one, including Lynch, said anything about Tebows play when questioning McCoy. No one said it would make him a great QB. The QB can play bad and the play calling can be bad.

Learn English.

deltbucs
10-31-2011, 09:07 AM
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on both ... But those will take time

Why not? Is it just that he lacks the mental capacity?

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:09 AM
Then what is the crap about him being smarter than Lynch? When did Elway say anything about the play calling? Elway would have to be calling the plays for that response to make any sense.

No one, including Lynch, said anything about Tebows play when questioning McCoy. No one said it would make him a great QB. The QB can play bad and the play calling can be bad.

Learn English.

Elway daid Tebow wasnt ready ...... Kinda makes play calling moot now doesnt it ..... you can have hte perfect play called but of the QB doesnt execute it , well so much for that now huh ......

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:10 AM
Why not? Is it just that he lacks the mental capacity?

come on , his 5 th game , look Tebow has his fair share of problems , but stupidity isnt one of them , lets keep it real here , besides you see I am dealing with Jhns , cut me some slack and bring legit questions ....

jhns
10-31-2011, 09:13 AM
Elway daid Tebow wasnt ready ...... Kinda makes play calling moot now doesnt it ..... you can have hte perfect play called but of the QB doesnt execute it , well so much for that now huh ......

Oh, well that just makes **** play calling okay then. Not only that, it also means you should defend bad play calling. Sorry that we brought it up...

LOL

Dumb.

So, why is Elway smarter than Lynch, based on him saying Tebow isn't ready? You still aren't explaining this. At what point did Lynch claik Tebow is ready?

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:14 AM
Oh, well that just makes **** play calling okay then. Sorry that we brought it up...

LOL

Dumb.

but then Screens would have saved the game ,:rofl:

deltbucs
10-31-2011, 09:14 AM
come on , his 5 th game , look Tebow has his fair share of problems , but stupidity isnt one of them , lets keep it real here , besides you see I am dealing with Jhns , cut me some slack and bring legit questions ....

Even if it's his first game, you'd think that he should at least be able to make some checks. I can't think of a single QB in the league that doesn't call any audibles. And, yes, let's keep it real here. Tebow never been called one of the sharper QB's around. I recall his wonderlic being pretty low.

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:20 AM
Even if it's his first game, you'd think that he should at least be able to make some checks. I can't think of a single QB in the league that doesn't call any audibles. And, yes, let's keep it real here. Tebow never been called one of the sharper QB's around. I recall his wonderlic being pretty low.

well screens would have saved the game .. ;D ..... sorry just joking around ...yeah tebow has alot of problems , but lets be fair , the wr not fighting for the ball , then Ball trying to keep the ball on the PAP play causing a fumble , we are just not on the same page on the O side

jhns
10-31-2011, 09:22 AM
but then Screens would have saved the game ,:rofl:

Proving that you don't understand English is not helping your case.

Of course, I don't expect much from someone that thinks Elway calls the plays.

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:23 AM
Proving that you don't understand English is not helping your case.

Of course, I don't expect much from someone that thinks Elway calls the plays.

if only we had thrown screens , we would be on our way to the playoffs ......

Pendejo
10-31-2011, 09:26 AM
I think the Donks have caught the perfect storm. Inept coaching, a seemingly disinterested front office, and a roster full of players that can't play.

deltbucs
10-31-2011, 09:26 AM
well screens would have saved the game .. ;D ..... sorry just joking around ...yeah tebow has alot of problems , but lets be fair , the wr not fighting for the ball , then Ball trying to keep the ball on the PAP play causing a fumble , we are just not on the same page on the O side

Was that a play action or was that an end read play where Tebow has the option of handing the ball off to Ball or keeping it depending on what the DE does?

jhns
10-31-2011, 09:26 AM
if only we had thrown screens , we would be on our way to the playoffs ......

I never even claimed it would have resulted in better play. You just can't read.

Of course, you also seem to think Elway calls the plays...

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:29 AM
Was that a play action or was that an end read play where Tebow has the option of handing the ball off to Ball or keeping it depending on what the DE does?

it was .... looked like a PAP bootleg .tebow had no intention on handing that ball off

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:30 AM
I never even claimed it would have resulted in better play. You just can't read.

Of course, you also seem to think Elway calls the plays...

Oh god in heaven why didnt we screen , we would have won ........ Dayum you McCoy

jhns
10-31-2011, 09:32 AM
it was .... looked like a PAP bootleg .tebow had no intention on handing that ball off

Just stop. You don't understand the basics of this sport. Elway doesn't call plays and that was not a bootleg. There was no pass called. It was an option. Either Tebow or Ball run on that play...

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:34 AM
Just stop. You don't understand the basics of this sport. Elway doesn't call plays and that was not a bootleg. There was no pass called. It was an option. Either Tebow or Ball run on that play...

it was a screen .......

jhns
10-31-2011, 09:35 AM
it was a screen .......

That is about as bad as calling it a bootleg.

deltbucs
10-31-2011, 09:40 AM
Just stop. You don't understand the basics of this sport. Elway doesn't call plays and that was not a bootleg. There was no pass called. It was an option. Either Tebow or Ball run on that play...

I'm beginning to think that you're right. I have a hard time believing that Tebow wasn't allowed to call any audibles like he said, either.

Spider
10-31-2011, 09:55 AM
we will never know cause the ball was fumbled ....... just point ot 1 time tebow has audibiled ..

Dedhed
10-31-2011, 10:10 AM
I didn't have a problem with the overall play calling, but the specific pass plays are terrible. John Lynch was saying the entire game, "You have to run plays that encourage the kid to get the ball out of his hand."

There were very few of those plays.

Dedhed
10-31-2011, 10:11 AM
we will never know cause the ball was fumbled ....... just point ot 1 time tebow has audibiled ..

Two point conversion versus miami.

jhns
10-31-2011, 10:14 AM
we will never know cause the ball was fumbled ....... just point ot 1 time tebow has audibiled ..

We know exactpy what the play was...

Watch a Nebraska game. You will see it run 10 times.

fontaine
10-31-2011, 11:34 AM
Can you really blame the WR's for dropping some of those balls? I could throw a better spiral with my left foot. And you can't really blame the OL when he sits in the pocket for a few seconds and then his pocket presence consists of him spinning around in a 360.

It's not all on the WRs or OL. But it wasn't just Tebow playing badly at times and the WRs/OL playing stellar.

For example, the fumble that resulted in Avril returning it for a TD was on the OL with both Franklin and Beadles whiffing on their blocks and giving the QB no time as the defenders reached him at the end of his dropback.

Decker could have easily planted his 2nd foot on a great pass in the endzone at the end of the first drive but his but his inexperience showed. Royal running a two yard route on 3rd and three and so on.

This isn't an offense that was churning out 25 plus points a game before the QB change.

This is an offense minus it's best TWO skill players in Lloyd and McGahee.

But anyway, if people want to judge Tebow/Franklin now then go ahead. I'll wait till the season's over to have a better perspective.

Rohirrim
10-31-2011, 11:36 AM
Yes you're right, for every one good pass, he's got another poor one. Some of the other passes are due to WRs dropping passes, OL issues and so on.

QBs should improve game to game but you know, and I know that's not the reality. Young QB's face different fronts, coverages, matchups and alignments every week. Last week against Miami they used a spy with delayed blitzes by Yeremiah Bell/Dansby, last game it was aggressive two/three blitzers all first half from the outside and up the middle with a stacked front.

Yes, we can expect him to improve, but honestly, did we expect Ayers/Moreno/A Smith/R Quinn/Von/Walton/Beadles to improve week to week?

C'mon now, let's be honest here. People in the business know it takes at least two years for a young QB to develop and start getting more comfortable.

Why should Tebow be any different?

Let's wait for the season to be finished before we start throwing around "he can't, he's a bust, etc etc."

We've got no one else to turn to since Quinn/Orton are gone after this year.

Oh, I already realize that it's pointless to make changes now. Putting Orton back in would also be pointless. This season is lost. Might as well let Tebow play out the string. I don't know how much longer the Broncos can put up with being the laughingstock of the league, though. If they've got any pride left, this week would be the time to dig it out and put it on the field. I just hope that QB is the #1 position on the Broncos draft chart after the misery is over. Be honest, the only time Tebow is makes an exciting play is when he's escaping from a sack and running. Can you imagine him orchestrating an 80 yard drive?

teknic
10-31-2011, 12:11 PM
The problems on offense can be blamed just as much, if not more, on execution than the play calls themselves.

Why are so many people ready to write off Tebow after his fifth start? Give him the season before you decide to jump off a bridge.

DenverBroncosJM
10-31-2011, 01:10 PM
We went from CDTL to CDTD.

(Chuck it deep to lloyd to chuck it deep to decker)

HAT
10-31-2011, 01:19 PM
This isn't an offense that was churning out 25 plus points a game before the QB change.

.

All summer we heard that the Tebow led Broncos scored 25 PPG after taking over last year when 20.5 or so had been the norm for a while.

Some pointed out that 3 games is a laughably small sample size but most didn't want to hear that though. Tebow was going to guarantee 25 PPG according to some.

Anyone want to update the PPG stat under Tebow?

Small sample size is still small sample size.

bendog
10-31-2011, 01:27 PM
The problems on offense can be blamed just as much, if not more, on execution than the play calls themselves.

Why are so many people ready to write off Tebow after his fifth start? Give him the season before you decide to jump off a bridge.

I agree that the complaints about the playcalling seem lame. they ran 5-9 times on first down before the game got out of hand. Tebow's accuracy has always been better on longer throws and the ten yard or so shorter stuff, than mid-range. The mid-range stuff has to improve for him to make it, but Detroit brang safties up. I still think Decker caught that ball, and Royal needs to run his routes out at full speed, or else they need to trade his ass too.

teknic
10-31-2011, 02:32 PM
Tebow is still a rookie in this league. He hasn't started for an entire season, not even half of a season. Just because he (and the entire team) had an awful performance does not mean he can't be a QB in this league. We need a larger sample size than 5 games, and get Tebow as much game experience as possible. Fox announced that he's still going with Tebow next week, but it worries me that he had to say it in a press conference.

Inspired by this article,
http://www.athlonsports.com/nfl/tim-tebow-john-elway-comparison

Here's a little perspective for all the Tim Tebow haters out there, John Elway included: In Elway's fifth career start, he was 4-of-10 passing for 36 yards and no touchdowns, and he threw a pick-six before being yanked in favor of Steve DeBerg in a 3114 loss to the Bears. The game dropped Elway's record as a starter to 23, and at that point in his career, he was 38-of-83 passing (45.7 percent) for 420 yards (84 yards per game) and one one! touchdown. His highest passer rating in any of his first five games? 58.8. I guess the Broncos should have declared the Elway experiment to be a failure and moved on to their "Suck for Esiason" strategy.

Here's a side-by-side comparison between Tebow and the man who will decide his future in the league (over their first five career starts):

Tim Tebow John Elway
Starting Record 23 23
Att-Comp 75-157 (47.7%) 38-83 (45.7%)
Passing Yards 984 427
TD-INT 8-4 1-5
Rushing Yards 327 41

I looked up a few other QBs stats in their first 5 starts too.

Peyton Manning:
(W-L) 1-4
(Comp-Att) 93-169 (55.0%)
(Pass) 1129yd, 11 sacks
(TD-INT) 4-12
(Rush) 33yd

Michael Vick:
(W-L) 2-3
(Comp-Att) 64-119 (53.8%)
(Pass) 757yd, 16 sacks
(TD-INT) 5-1
(Rush) 235yd

Steve Young:
(W-L) 2-3
(Comp-Att) 96-151 (63.6%)
(Pass) 1290yd, 8 sacks
(TD-INT) 8-4
(Rush) 147yd

Ben Roethlisberger:
(W-L) 5-0
(Comp-Att) 84-117 (71.8%)
(Pass) 957yd, 5 sacks
(TD-INT) 7-2
(Rush) 28yd

Step back of that ledge you people that are ready to sit Tebow again.

bendog
10-31-2011, 02:35 PM
teknic,

Are you saying Elway hates tebow and if so why?

teknic
10-31-2011, 02:44 PM
teknic,

Are you saying Elway hates tebow and if so why?

Nah, I don't think Elway dislikes Tebow, but I believe that he wants to win now more than anything.

Part of the problem is the fanbase that is still divided on who should be our quarterback (Orton, Tebow, or those idiots that want to suck to have a chance to draft another unproven rookie), and that means that they are ready to complain loudly when whoever is the QB doesn't have a good game. Many people are looking past the fact that Tebow is a rookie (in terms of game started, I realize he was on the roster in 2010). Not every QB looks great in their first season. We have too small of a sample size to fairly judge Tebow, and we have too many problems on this team to give all of the blame to the QB (either Orton or Tebow). The added pressure by the fans to put a winning product on the field puts Elway in a bad spot. Does he give Tebow the chance to develop, or does he go all in for Luck if he believes that he gives us the best chance to win? What if Luck struggles in his first year too?

There was very little chance of a playoff berth this year, so going with Tebow for the rest of the season to see what he can do in the league is the best thing we can do. That was the argument for starting him over Orton this season, I don't know why some fans have changed their minds already. You knew this was a possibility if Tebow was started, so live with the consequences. He may improve, or he may not. But I'd rather know one way or another at the end of this season.

Dedhed
10-31-2011, 02:47 PM
All summer we heard that the Tebow led Broncos scored 25 PPG after taking over last year when 20.5 or so had been the norm for a while.

Some pointed out that 3 games is a laughably small sample size but most didn't want to hear that though. Tebow was going to guarantee 25 PPG according to some.

Anyone want to update the PPG stat under Tebow?

Small sample size is still small sample size.
Comparing this offense to McDaniels' is silly, and that 25ppg argument was a comparison between Orton and Tebow.

To update the Broncos were averaging 18.6 ppg under Orton this year, and are averaging 19.6 with Tebow.

jhns
10-31-2011, 02:52 PM
I also like the play calling from the guy that gas somehow made this offense, Orton, and Tebow much worse than they were the past two seasons. I mean, you have to be doing a good job when a bottom half of the league offense somehow manages to get worse!

bendog
10-31-2011, 02:55 PM
Elway's problem is that if the offense gives up 14 pts and we lose like 45-10, the fans will be mad regardless of who is the qb. I thought Tebow showed improveent early on, but he can't pick up the blitz and even with decent time he is not consistently completing passes with man coverage. I'm not making comparisons at all, but Elway was not the most accurate passer, but I distinctly recall that once he recognized blitzes he became deadly on 3rd down. If a defense blitzed him, he could make the read. If a defense didn't blitz him, he'd run around all day long back there till a dback fell down.

It's really up to Tebow. The Lions had game film. I suspect we'll see 8 men in the box and man coverage on the wrs and te until Tebow forces defenses to do otherwise.

Inkana7
10-31-2011, 02:58 PM
Comparing this offense to McDaniels' is silly, and that 25ppg argument was a comparison between Orton and Tebow.

To update the Broncos were averaging 18.6 ppg under Orton this year, and are averaging 19.6 with Tebow.

14+18+10/2.5 =/= 19.6

We are averaging 16.8 ppg with Tebow, and 14.0 since he's taken over as a starter.

Bronx33
10-31-2011, 05:57 PM
The play calling was stone age and simplistic any defense can easily walk around it (and they did) heck you could just stand in the way and stop it, how could anybody like the play calling the last two games?

Bronx33
10-31-2011, 06:00 PM
I think the Donks have caught the perfect storm. Inept coaching, a seemingly disinterested front office, and a roster full of players that can't play.


I fear you have hit the nail on the head.

peacepipe
10-31-2011, 06:02 PM
The play calling was stone age and simplistic any defense can easily walk around it (and they did) heck you could just stand in the way and stop it, how could anybody like the play calling the last two games?

When you got QB who can't read a defense & has terrible mechanics/fundamentals you're going to be limited on what you can do on offense.

peacepipe
10-31-2011, 06:05 PM
Comparing this offense to McDaniels' is silly, and that 25ppg argument was a comparison between Orton and Tebow.

To update the Broncos were averaging 18.6 ppg under Orton this year, and are averaging 14 with Tebow.fixed it for you.

Archer81
10-31-2011, 06:06 PM
When you got QB who can't read a defense & has terrible mechanics/fundamentals you're going to be limited on what you can do on offense.


We made an AFCC game with Jake Plummer, who was not always mechanically sound and was not always able to read a defense. So our offense led the league in rushing and the passing game was designed to cut Plummer's reads in half. We had success. At bare minimum Tebow is capable of doing the same thing.

:Broncos:

razorwire77
10-31-2011, 06:10 PM
I don't really see the point in benching Tebow. Good, bad, and most likely ugly, you just let the kid play out the string and see if he shows enough improvement to stay with the team. Say he gets the hook after the Raider game, and suddenly Brady Quinn starts. Even if he looks marginally good, is the team going to hitch it's wagon to a journeyman QB who's not under contract?

peacepipe
10-31-2011, 06:10 PM
We made an AFCC game with Jake Plummer, who was not always mechanically sound and was not always able to read a defense. So our offense led the league in rushing and the passing game was designed to cut Plummer's reads in half. We had success. At bare minimum Tebow is capable of doing the same thing.

:Broncos:plummers problem was poor decision making. not mechanics/fund.

Archer81
10-31-2011, 06:12 PM
plummers problem was poor decision making. not mechanics/fund.


And I suppose his throwing off his back foot, side arming it, throwing it left handed was what? My imagination?


:Broncos:

Br0nc0Buster
10-31-2011, 06:15 PM
math, how does it work?

peacepipe
10-31-2011, 06:16 PM
And I suppose his throwing off his back foot, side arming it, throwing it left handed was what? My imagination?


:Broncos:I have no problems with throwing off your back foot if you can make the thow. the left handed throw was a poor decision.
tebows mechanics are so poor that throwing off his back foot would be an improvement.

Archer81
10-31-2011, 06:21 PM
I have no problems with throwing off your back foot if you can make the thow. the left handed throw was a poor decision.
tebows mechanics are so poor that throwing off his back foot would be an improvement.


Tim needs to fix his feet. when that happens, accuracy goes up. However, even Tebow right now could run an offense similar to the one Denver used in 2005. Give him three options, Pass A, Pass B, Run. Build from that.


:Broncos:

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
10-31-2011, 06:24 PM
Tim needs to fix his feet. when that happens, accuracy goes up. However, even Tebow right now could run an offense similar to the one Denver used in 2005. Give him three options, Pass A, Pass B, Run. Build from that.


:Broncos:

The problem is, the organization doesn't care about Tebow to really work on this with him. I mean, this should have been addressed if there was OTA's, Mini Camps, Training Camp...etc... but there was none.

Tebow was not drafted to come in and play great with where he was at a QB, he drafted based on where he could potentially end up during his career, and that's a Super Bowl team leading QB.

Bronx33
10-31-2011, 06:24 PM
When you got QB who can't read a defense & has terrible mechanics/fundamentals you're going to be limited on what you can do on offense.


Well you would think that's where (COACHES) come in!!

teknic
11-01-2011, 12:18 AM
Tim needs to fix his feet. when that happens, accuracy goes up. However, even Tebow right now could run an offense similar to the one Denver used in 2005. Give him three options, Pass A, Pass B, Run. Build from that.


:Broncos:

Part of the reason that he rarely has his feet set when he throws is because he's under pressure quite often. Franklin has let way too many people have shots at Tebow, and Tebow looks to run quickly now because of the pressure.

McDman
11-01-2011, 12:56 AM
1. McCoy didn't adjust to Cunningham bringing in blitzes the entire first half. We failed to go into max protect, even when it was clear Franklin/Beadles were getting overwhelmed.

2. On the fumble that led to Detroit recovering for a TD it was Franklin who allowed his guy to get past him and ofcourse, the revolving door we have in Beadles that completely whiffed on his block allowing the defender to get a clear shot at Tebow.

3. Yet no screens, delayed hand offs, TEs flaring out into the zones left by blitzers for a quick easy pass, no shallow crossing routes when the middle was empty because LBs/Safeties were blitzing. McCoy went Mike Martz. Go for the longer developing plays to Decker/Thomas along the sidelines and expect a young QB to stay in the pocket and take hits to complete those longer passes. That is a$$ and typical Mike Martz type of crap.

4. I didn't see (could be wrong) any designed rollouts, bootlegs, or stretch plays where Tebow rolls one way and the RB goes the other. All plays that are DESIGNED to take advantage of an over aggressive front 7 bringing the house on blitzes.

5. No quick passes to WRs at the line until 4-5 minutes left in the game where our bigger WRs like Decker/Thomas could run over defenders. Again plays that are designed to take advantage of defenders stacking the middle.

I'm not saying all of this is on McCoy, Tebow had some bad passes and the OL had it's worst performance all year. But the job of the OC is to counter an over aggressive defense.

McCoy failed to do that.

What's funny is that if Orton was playing no one would ever bring up the playcalling. In fact, now that I think about it, no one ever used that excuse for him.

TDmvp
11-01-2011, 01:43 AM
What's funny is that if Orton was playing no one would ever bring up the playcalling. In fact, now that I think about it, no one ever used that excuse for him.

Because with Orton it's not the play calling it's his skill set and deathly fear of The Red Zone.

jhns
11-01-2011, 07:07 AM
What's funny is that if Orton was playing no one would ever bring up the playcalling. In fact, now that I think about it, no one ever used that excuse for him.

That is wrong. I have been saying McCoy and Fox need fired from about week 2. The play calling was always a big part of that.

teknic
12-19-2011, 11:09 AM
Bump...

Does everyone still think that McCoy's playcalling is holding the team back? LOL

Boobs McGee
12-19-2011, 01:06 PM
That is wrong. I have been saying McCoy and Fox need fired from about week 2. The play calling was always a big part of that.

:thumbsup: clowns post is clownish.

jhns
12-19-2011, 01:08 PM
Bump...

Does everyone still think that McCoy's playcalling is holding the team back? LOL

It didn't lose us the game but it is still horrible play calling. We need a guy that has actually developed a QB before. We also need a guy that doesn't call back to back QB draws, ever...

jhns
12-19-2011, 01:10 PM
:thumbsup: clowns post is clownish.

Sure it is. They were throwing games early and we have horrible offensive play calling. I get that you McFans don't care about this stuff. Fox doesn't need fired, now that he stopped throwing games, but this team could definately use an offensive coordinator.

McDman
12-19-2011, 02:13 PM
Sure it is. They were throwing games early and we have horrible offensive play calling. I get that you McFans don't care about this stuff. Fox doesn't need fired, now that he stopped throwing games, but this team could definately use an offensive coordinator.

There is clearly something wrong with you if you think he was actually throwing games.

And get over your McD obsession. You're literally the only person on the board that talks about him anymore.

TonyR
12-19-2011, 02:18 PM
Wait, you mean jhns isn't always right?

jhns
12-19-2011, 02:32 PM
There is clearly something wrong with you if you think he was actually throwing games.

And get over your McD obsession. You're literally the only person on the board that talks about him anymore.

He was throwing games. I am not a conspiracy theorist. It wasn't on purpose. It was his horrible decisions.

Answer this: Do you think this team has more or less wins if Tebow starts the first five games? Do you think this offense looks better, or the same, if it is developed from the start of camp with Tebow getting first team reps.

Then again, why would the staff trust last years game tape when they clearly see Orton is the better option under conditions that favor him by a wide margin...

Your blindly defended McDaniels. This makes you a McFan. You now blindly defend this staff. This makes your McFanaticism relevant.

jhns
12-19-2011, 02:32 PM
Wait, you mean jhns isn't always right?

Since when?

Pick Six
12-19-2011, 02:35 PM
He was throwing games. I am not a conspiracy theorist. It wasn't on purpose. It was his horrible decisions.

I think "throwing games" implies that it was on purpose...

jhns
12-19-2011, 02:37 PM
I think "throwing games" implies that it was on purpose...

Then my wording is bad. I think you can throw games with incompetence though.

teknic
01-11-2012, 09:09 PM
Sure it is. They were throwing games early and we have horrible offensive play calling. I get that you McFans don't care about this stuff. Fox doesn't need fired, now that he stopped throwing games, but this team could definately use an offensive coordinator.

Hilarious!

jhns
01-11-2012, 09:18 PM
Hilarious!

Of course you think so. Most of you agreed that Orton was the best QB on this team. This was after the backup had proven to be better in live games. That sure turned out to be right...

Lucky for this front office, Tebow seems to be working out so far. They are screwed if they have to find thier own QB.

teknic
01-11-2012, 09:19 PM
Of course you think so. Most of you agreed that Orton was the best QB on this team. That sure turned out to be right...

I certainly wasn't one of the people advocating Orton....

jhns
01-11-2012, 09:21 PM
I certainly wasn't one of the people advocating Orton....

Fox was. He was losing games because of it. Again, this front office would be screwed if it had to get its own QB. They couldn't figure out who was the best out of the four guys here... That was after one had proven to be the best in live games...

If you think losing games from incompetence is acceptable, good for you. I don't agree. Luckily they pulled their heads out of their asses just in time.

Also, calling back to back QB draws and skipping points that cost you a game, are not good play calling. Never will be...

Calling QB draws on the number of third downs they did is bad play calling. They basically gave up on a huge number of drives.

Fox has done a good job and McCoy is learning. McCoy needs to get better though.

jhns
01-12-2012, 07:14 AM
You got me to thinking about this and if I was too harsh, without giving them a chance. I have concluded that I may have been too harsh on McCoy. While I think his play calling has been pretty bad at times, he is new to play calling and deserves a chance show he can learn. I do think he has been getting better.

As for Fox, I woupd say he definately was on the path to getting fired if Elway and Bowlen are half as smart as I hope they are. The season has played out enough now to know that we are a playoff team with Tebow. We were on our way to another top five pick with his choice of starting Orton. If your decision is the difference between a top five pick and the playoffs... I just don't get why anyone wouldn't think that was a good enough reason to question him.

Again though, this doesn't matter now as Fox made the change just in time. I liked this past offseason and hope Fox sticks around for a while.

TonyR
01-12-2012, 07:42 AM
jhns you still fail to see the bigger picture of what was going on. Tebow showed a complete inability in camp and practice to be an NFL passing QB. They knew they couldn't send him out there with such a complete inability to run the offense because of his inefficiencies in the passing game. So what did they do when they realize they were in a no win situation because Orton sucks so bad? They designed a radically conservative offense to hide Tebow's flaws and accentuate his strengths. Whether by luck or fate or chance or divine intervention is has worked more than not. If you've actually been paying attention you know that it hasn't worked for large parts of many games, and that later in the regular season it appears teams had it mostly figured out. Pittsburgh erred in their game plan and Tebow and the O played well enough to make them pay for it. But it still remains to be seen whether or not this type of offense has long term viability, and whether or not Tebow can improve/adapt enough to run a more conventional offense. I know your bias, insecurity, and investment in being right makes it difficult to see these things, or admit to seeing them, but despite the results they are right there in front of you.

EmpireOrange
01-12-2012, 07:57 AM
Good post. I like what McCoy has done this year. Fox made an interesting comment after the game last week. He said they really didn't change that much for the Steeler game, the difference was the players excecuting. Denver is a young team. The coaches have done a pretty good job adjusting to thier talent and putting the players in the best position to win. I'm very optimistic for the future. I hope both McCoy and Allen stick around for a few more years. Denver is going to be a very tough out.

jhns
01-12-2012, 07:59 AM
jhns you still fail to see the bigger picture of what was going on. Tebow showed a complete inability in camp and practice to be an NFL passing QB. They knew they couldn't send him out there with such a complete inability to run the offense because of his inefficiencies in the passing game. So what did they do when they realize they were in a no win situation because Orton sucks so bad? They designed a radically conservative offense to hide Tebow's flaws and accentuate his strengths. Whether by luck or fate or chance or divine intervention is has worked more than not. If you've actually been paying attention you know that it hasn't worked for large parts of many games, and that later in the regular season it appears teams had it mostly figured out. Pittsburgh erred in their game plan and Tebow and the O played well enough to make them pay for it. But it still remains to be seen whether or not this type of offense has long term viability, and whether or not Tebow can improve/adapt enough to run a more conventional offense. I know your bias, insecurity, and investment in being right makes it difficult to see these things, or admit to seeing them, but despite the results they are right there in front of you.

The season has played out just as I said. If we played Orton, the team fails. If we play Tebow, they actually stand a chance. Everything else is a lame spin attempt. This all was proven in live games last season.

It hasn't worked? It took a 1-4 team, that had the second overall pick, to the playoffs. It won a playoff game already. I think you need to realize that you don't understand football as well as you think you do. You clearly can't figure out why we are so much better now.

Tebow looked worse in practice, with an offense designed for Orton. This only highlights the incompetence of this staff. Tebow didn't even get time with the first team to see if he could run that offense. They didn't want Tebow and Fox almost coached his way out of the league. There is no way he gets another head coaching job if he failed here with a few more top five picks. That isn't exactly a good argument for Fox and that terrible decision.

TonyR
01-12-2012, 08:14 AM
It hasn't worked?

I explicitly said that is has. The question is whether it will continue to work. There are plenty of reasons to question/doubt whether or not it will. In the mean time let's enjoy this playoff run.

jhns
01-12-2012, 08:29 AM
I explicitly said that is has. The question is whether it will continue to work. There are plenty of reasons to question/doubt whether or not it will. In the mean time let's enjoy this playoff run.

There are also pleanty of reasons to think it will conttinue working. The top one being, it is working now and the team is very young at most positions. Young players don't usually get worse, although it does happen. I, for one, am very excited about the future(and present).

Also, you did claim it didn't work. You are also still acting like young players can't have bad games. The offense just had to have been figured out and the players had to regress. It can't be that an extremely young offense just had some bad games...

They just proved that you are an idiot in a playoff game. That game was against the best defense in football. They clearly don't have this offense figured out...