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View Full Version : 49er thinks Luck is overrated


Gort
10-26-2011, 09:20 AM
(Ricky) Jean Francois went on to say that Luck wouldn't be drafted No. 1 if he had to play in the SEC

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/49ers-defensive-tackle-doesn-8217-t-think-Luck-?urn=nfl-wp10439

i know any mention of the SEC is like catnip to MacGruder, but it's still NFL news of a sort, so worth posting.

bowtown
10-26-2011, 09:23 AM
I always look forward to Francois' takes on the draft. Mayock couldn't hold his jock.

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 09:25 AM
Is Ricky MacGruder?

If so, I drafted MacGruder in the OM Mock draft a year or two ago O_o

My head hurts.

jhns
10-26-2011, 09:27 AM
Dude is going to have to be one of the best QBs to ever play in the NFL in order to not be overrated.

Houshyamama
10-26-2011, 09:38 AM
"I'm not a Pac-12 fan at all," Jean Francois told Inside the 49ers, "I'm an SEC guy.

Opinion ignored.

maher_tyler
10-26-2011, 09:46 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/49ers-defensive-tackle-doesn-8217-t-think-Luck-?urn=nfl-wp10439

i know any mention of the SEC is like catnip to MacGruder, but it's still NFL news of a sort, so worth posting.

WTF?? So to be good in the NFL you have to come from the SEC?? Seems like most guys that come from the SEC end up being a bust...

Kaylore
10-26-2011, 09:49 AM
Yeah let's dismiss every player from every conference except the SEC. ::)

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 09:55 AM
Big-10 or GTFO

bowtown
10-26-2011, 09:55 AM
WTF?? So to be good in the NFL you have to come from the SEC?? Seems like most guys that come from the SEC end up being a bust...

That's because they are unable to adjust to the slower, nerfed style of the NFL.

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 10:05 AM
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydolphin/files/2010/07/wakefins.jpg

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/timesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/02/602231fd-dbbf-582d-9f07-00a189c93019/4e97b5b280635.preview-300.jpg

http://psuinthenfl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Photo-by-Marc-SerotaGetty-Images.png

http://www.fantasyfootballchallenge.com/images/player_photos/raiders-center-stefen-wisniewski-prepares-to-snap-ball-to-qb-trent-edwards.jpg

http://sportscasm.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/tamba-hali-chiefs-sack.jpg

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Dan+Connor+Indianapolis+Colts+v+Carolina+Panthers+ LMtVlmleIvtl.jpg

http://media.pennlive.com/pasports/photo/9100713-large.jpg

Come at me, other schools.

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 10:38 AM
WTF?? So to be good in the NFL you have to come from the SEC?? Seems like most guys that come from the SEC end up being a bust...

It just means that if you play crap defenses outside the SEC you are very very likely to be massively overrated.

The thing is.. what makes it so difficult is that they are the polar opposite of Tebow.. most guys in college now are polished to MANAGE NFL offenses.. and do everything the way NFL scouts want them to.

So you see guys like Flacco, Bradford, Colt McCoy, Andrew Luck.. even Kyle Orton..

These guys are show ponies who are trained to do everything the way NFL people teach them. They can run these NFL offenses and dink and dunk with the bast of them.. but because they are so polished you can't really tell if they have "IT".

When they are playing crap non SEC D it is even tougher to tell..

Look at Jake Locker.. how did he go from God to almost falling out of the first round and then rising back up again..

Conversely SEC QBs have EVERY weakness magnified by these brutal Ds. And the gimmick offenses that work in other conferences don't work in the SEC in this era.. Look at Urban Meyer's offense without Tebow.. Look at Weis trying to coach O in the SEC..

ohiobronco2
10-26-2011, 12:23 PM
Arguably the best QB in the league is from the PAC 12 (Rogers). Others in contention are from the Big Ten (Brady and Brees).

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 12:29 PM
Arguably the best QB in the league is from the PAC 12 (Rogers). Others in contention are from the Big Ten (Brady and Brees).

Excuse me. I believe you're forgetting the pride of PSU

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Kerry+Collins+Indianapolis+Colts+v+Houston+IfTxpaB 2GEal.jpg

Inkana7
10-26-2011, 12:42 PM
It just means that if you play crap defenses outside the SEC you are very very likely to be massively overrated.

The thing is.. what makes it so difficult is that they are the polar opposite of Tebow.. most guys in college now are polished to MANAGE NFL offenses.. and do everything the way NFL scouts want them to.

So you see guys like Flacco, Bradford, Colt McCoy, Andrew Luck.. even Kyle Orton..

These guys are show ponies who are trained to do everything the way NFL people teach them. They can run these NFL offenses and dink and dunk with the bast of them.. but because they are so polished you can't really tell if they have "IT".

When they are playing crap non SEC D it is even tougher to tell..

Look at Jake Locker.. how did he go from God to almost falling out of the first round and then rising back up again..

Conversely SEC QBs have EVERY weakness magnified by these brutal Ds. And the gimmick offenses that work in other conferences don't work in the SEC in this era.. Look at Urban Meyer's offense without Tebow.. Look at Weis trying to coach O in the SEC..

Hey man, not every QB can have enough "It" to win the SEC like Jason Campbell and Matt Mauck. Ease up on poor Joe Flacco.

EDIT: How could I forget noted SEC Champion D.J. Shockley?

BigPlayShay
10-26-2011, 12:56 PM
Arguably the best QB in the league is from the PAC 12 (Rogers). Others in contention are from the Big Ten (Brady and Brees).

Rodgers wasn't offered a single D1 scholarship. Played at Butte Community College, and was only discovered by Cal as they were scouting a teammate.

bowtown
10-26-2011, 12:58 PM
Hey man, not every QB can have enough "It" to win the SEC like Jason Campbell and Matt Mauck. Ease up on poor Joe Flacco.

EDIT: How could I forget noted SEC Champion D.J. Shockley?

They were all ruined by the coaching staffs of the NFL.

Gort
10-26-2011, 01:00 PM
Rodgers wasn't offered a single D1 scholarship. Played at Butte Community College, and was only discovered by Cal as they were scouting a teammate.

he hheheh hehe heheheeh

you said Butte.

heeee hehehehh hehe

http://www.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Beavis-Butthead-Returns.jpg

bowtown
10-26-2011, 01:03 PM
Hey man, not every QB can have enough "It" to win the SEC like Jason Campbell and Matt Mauck. Ease up on poor Joe Flacco.

EDIT: How could I forget noted SEC Champion D.J. Shockley?

Also to be fair, Matt Mauck did turn out to be a much better dentist than anything the PAC 12 put out.

Kaylore
10-26-2011, 01:33 PM
Actually if you made a list of the ten greatest QB's ever, you'd be lucky to get 1 SEC QB on that list.

Rabb
10-26-2011, 01:34 PM
Actually if you made a list of the ten greatest QB's ever, you'd be lucky to get 1 SEC QB on that list.

not named Peyton at least

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 01:38 PM
Hey man, not every QB can have enough "It" to win the SEC like Jason Campbell and Matt Mauck. Ease up on poor Joe Flacco.

EDIT: How could I forget noted SEC Champion D.J. Shockley?

You are assuming these other QBs failed in the NFL because they sucked.. as Steve Young has shown you can be a good QB and still fail if you aren't in the right spot.

Bottom line is it is much much easier to be overrated in other conferences.

Just as many non-SEC QBs can go to good teams in the NFL and become overrated again just because they are in a good situation..

Look At Peyton Manning though.. his NFL career has been a virtual carbon copy of his SEC career.

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 01:41 PM
Actually if you made a list of the ten greatest QB's ever, you'd be lucky to get 1 SEC QB on that list.

I bet you if you went over the numbers though you would see that over all SEC QBs had a much much higher rate of success compared to QBs that looked good coming out of other conferences.

The high profile SEC QBs are just examined more than all the other Qbs outside the SEC who are complete garbage.

There are just many more NON SEC schools so it makes it LOOK like they are more successful. You are seeing the hits without seeing the endless number of misses.. and not recognizing the consitently high level of quality SEC QBs..

Also remember that NON SEC QBs are overrated.. so they get more opportunities in the NFL than SEC QBs who are ignored because they didn't look great like QBs outside the SEC.

I also bet a lot of QBs won't even go to the SEC knowing they will be facing those tough Ds constantly and not get rewarded for it.. so when you do get greay QBs in the SEC they aren't recognized - like Tebow. Even Peyton Manning was underrated there.

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 01:50 PM
not named Peyton at least

Isn't he the only one?

Handicapping even to modern era for more SEC prominence I still come up with:

Elway - Stanford
Manning - Vols
Montana - Notre Dame
Brady - Mich
Favre - Southern Miss
Marino - Pittsburgh
Young - lol Mormons
Brees - Purdue
Warner - Northern Iowa
Kelly - Miami (because PSU said you're not good enough for us :) )

Agamemnon
10-26-2011, 01:55 PM
I agree that Luck is probably overrated. I don't agree that Luck shouldn't be the #1 pick. Saying he wouldn't be so hyped if he played in the SEC is funny to me. If he was playing for one of the powerhouse teams in the SEC he'd be tearing it up just as much as he is now. If he was playing for Vanderbilt, not so much. Seriously, outside a couple teams there is nothing special about the SEC this year.

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 01:55 PM
Even Peyton Manning was underrated there.

He was drafted #1 overall...

bowtown
10-26-2011, 01:57 PM
He was drafted #1 overall...

But ESPN said something bad about him.

Rohirrim
10-26-2011, 01:59 PM
This week, Stanford faces USC, so you can watch Barkley and Luck and compare. Should be an entertaining game, if nothing else.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-26-2011, 02:01 PM
But ESPN said something bad about him.

Hopefully he kept a list and emailed them about anything/everything he felt was incorrect about what was said about Peyton.

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 02:02 PM
But ESPN said something bad about him.

Honestly I can't even fathom that statement. Here's a couple examples of how underrated he was:

"Manning completed his degree in three years, and was projected to be the top overall pick in the NFL Draft, but returned to Tennessee for his senior year."

"As a senior, Manning won numerous awards; he was a consensus First-team All-American, the Maxwell Award winner, the Davey O'Brien Award winner, the Johnny Unitas Award winner, and the Best College Player ESPY award winner, among others; however, he did not win the Heisman, finishing runner-up to Charles Woodson"

"Manning was selected first overall in the 1998 draft by the Indianapolis Colts. In his rookie season, he passed for 3,739 yards with 26 touchdowns, set five different NFL rookie records, including most touchdown passes in a season, and was named to the NFL All-Rookie First Team."

Hercules Rockefeller
10-26-2011, 02:06 PM
Honestly I can't even fathom that statement. Here's a couple examples of how underrated he was:

"Manning completed his degree in three years, and was projected to be the top overall pick in the NFL Draft, but returned to Tennessee for his senior year."

"As a senior, Manning won numerous awards; he was a consensus First-team All-American, the Maxwell Award winner, the Davey O'Brien Award winner, the Johnny Unitas Award winner, and the Best College Player ESPY award winner, among others; however, he did not win the Heisman, finishing runner-up to Charles Woodson"

"Manning was selected first overall in the 1998 draft by the Indianapolis Colts. In his rookie season, he passed for 3,739 yards with 26 touchdowns, set five different NFL rookie records, including most touchdown passes in a season, and was named to the NFL All-Rookie First Team."

If you believe an article Schefter wrote a long, long time ago when he was still at the Post, Manning was not projected as the top pick if he'd gone pro a year early, or at least the Broncos' didn't have him as the top pick and him pegged at 6th or 7th.

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 02:09 PM
If you believe an article Schefter wrote a long, long time ago when he was still at the Post, Manning was not projected as the top pick if he'd gone pro a year early, or at least the Broncos' didn't have him as the top pick and him pegged at 6th or 7th.

Really? Can you find the link? Not doubting you, I'd just love to read it. Can't fathom that logic over all stars like Russell and Westbrook (the DB not the RB)

bowtown
10-26-2011, 02:32 PM
In the last three weeks, the Daily News polled a coach, GM or personnel director from 25 teams. The question: If you had the first pick, would you take Manning or Leaf? An overwhelming 20 said they would take Manning, three went for Leaf and two declined to give an opinion.

"If there is a more impressive guy in the country than Peyton Manning, I would be shocked," Bucs coach Tony Dungy said.

Some of those picking Manning said they were just more familiar with him than Leaf. The bottom line: Manning may be the best-prepared quarterback to ever come into the NFL. He absorbed football through his father, Archie, and has a coach's understanding of the game. He's the safe pick with big-game experience and has a better chance to have success right away than Leaf.


http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/1998/04/05/1998-04-05_the_great_1-2_debate__who_s_.html

Yeah, super underrated.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-26-2011, 02:35 PM
Really? Can you find the link? Not doubting you, I'd just love to read it. Can't fathom that logic over all stars like Russell and Westbrook (the DB not the RB)

I just remember it, so doubt I could ever find it.

The gist of that article was that Shanahan wanted Manning, and was sending out preliminary feelers even before the loss to the Jags to see what it would cost to get into the Top 6 or 7 so they could draft him. Obviously when Manning didn't declare, that changed everything.

Also, Woody alleged a year or two before that Schefter article that Peyton would have declared a year early if he could have guaranteed going to the Broncos. Apparently Archie is good friends with John Beake, so that was the connection to the organization.

And I know, the 1st QB that went that year was Drunkenmiller at the bottom of the 1st. Russell at least went to the Pro Bowl in his 2nd and 3rd seasons though.

Kaylore
10-26-2011, 02:37 PM
Isn't he the only one?

Handicapping even to modern era for more SEC prominence I still come up with:

Elway - Stanford
Manning - Vols
Montana - Notre Dame
Brady - Mich
Favre - Southern Miss
Marino - Pittsburgh
Young - lol Mormons
Brees - Purdue
Warner - Northern Iowa
Kelly - Miami (because PSU said you're not good enough for us :) )

Exactly. When you factor in some of the older QB's (Graham, Unitas, Gabriel) you're still shooting blanks for SEC.

bendog
10-26-2011, 02:39 PM
I might be wrong, but my casual look at nfl qbs told me that there were only 6 sec starting qbs in the League, but I might've missed one or two. still, it's not exactly dominating. I thing the SEC is by far the strongest overall conference though

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 02:42 PM
I just remember it, so doubt I could ever find it.

The gist of that article was that Shanahan wanted Manning, and was sending out preliminary feelers even before the loss to the Jags to see what it would cost to get into the Top 6 or 7 so they could draft him. Obviously when Manning didn't declare, that changed everything.

Also, Woody alleged a year or two before that Schefter article that Peyton would have declared a year early if he could have guaranteed going to the Broncos. Apparently Archie is good friends with John Beake, so that was the connection to the organization.

And I know, the 1st QB that went that year was Drunkenmiller at the bottom of the 1st. Russell at least went to the Pro Bowl in his 2nd and 3rd seasons though.

Holy Christ can you imagine if Shanahan had gotten Peyton?

Kaylore
10-26-2011, 02:43 PM
I might be wrong, but my casual look at nfl qbs told me that there were only 6 sec starting qbs in the League, but I might've missed one or two. still, it's not exactly dominating. I thing the SEC is by far the strongest overall conference though

I don't disagree with that. But I think as a conference they are better at producing defenders it seems.

bendog
10-26-2011, 02:45 PM
I don't disagree with that. But I think as a conference they are better at producing defenders it seems.

yeah, it's about defense in the sec ... unless Petrino is your coach (-:

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 03:24 PM
And yet Ryan Leaf was said to be BETTER than Manning and was complete garbage.. case closed.

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 03:30 PM
I agree that Luck is probably overrated. I don't agree that Luck shouldn't be the #1 pick. Saying he wouldn't be so hyped if he played in the SEC is funny to me. If he was playing for one of the powerhouse teams in the SEC he'd be tearing it up just as much as he is now. If he was playing for Vanderbilt, not so much. Seriously, outside a couple teams there is nothing special about the SEC this year.

They said John Brantley was going to tear it up at Florida too... said he was a great pro prospect.. Looked terrible under Meyer and even Weis couldn't protect him or make him look good.

Chris
10-26-2011, 03:34 PM
This week, Stanford faces USC, so you can watch Barkley and Luck and compare. Should be an entertaining game, if nothing else.

Luck vs Barkley

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltjq240bgx1qhq1pjo1_500.gif

bowtown
10-26-2011, 03:45 PM
And yet Ryan Leaf was said to be BETTER than Manning and was complete garbage.. case closed.

Re-posting for the idiot.


In the last three weeks, the Daily News polled a coach, GM or personnel director from 25 teams. The question: If you had the first pick, would you take Manning or Leaf? An overwhelming 20 said they would take Manning, three went for Leaf and two declined to give an opinion.

"If there is a more impressive guy in the country than Peyton Manning, I would be shocked," Bucs coach Tony Dungy said.

Some of those picking Manning said they were just more familiar with him than Leaf. The bottom line: Manning may be the best-prepared quarterback to ever come into the NFL. He absorbed football through his father, Archie, and has a coach's understanding of the game. He's the safe pick with big-game experience and has a better chance to have success right away than Leaf.


http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/1998/04/05/1998-04-05_the_great_1-2_debate__who_s_.html

Kaylore
10-26-2011, 03:47 PM
And yet Ryan Leaf was said to be BETTER than Manning and was complete garbage.. case closed.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a168/comradejhonka/Forums/batmanridingsuperman.jpg

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 03:53 PM
three went for Leaf

Three people said a complete and total bust was better than arguably the greatest QB in NFL history.. Do you think these three people would have said this had Leaf faced SEC D his whole career in college?

Yesterday some analyst said Andrew Luck was BETTER than Peyton Manning coming out of college..

If Luck played in the SEC NO one would be saying that because the SEC defenses would expose his weaknesses.. there is a very very high probability of this.

Inkana7
10-26-2011, 04:06 PM
Three people said a complete and total bust was better than arguably the greatest QB in NFL history.. Do you think these three people would have said this had Leaf faced SEC D his whole career in college?

Yesterday some analyst said Andrew Luck was BETTER than Peyton Manning coming out of college..

If Luck played in the SEC NO one would be saying that because the SEC defenses would expose his weaknesses.. there is a very very high probability of this.

No there isn't. Shut the **** up.

Rabb
10-26-2011, 04:20 PM
Isn't he the only one?

Handicapping even to modern era for more SEC prominence I still come up with:

Elway - Stanford
Manning - Vols
Montana - Notre Dame
Brady - Mich
Favre - Southern Miss
Marino - Pittsburgh
Young - lol Mormons
Brees - Purdue
Warner - Northern Iowa
Kelly - Miami (because PSU said you're not good enough for us :) )

I believe you are correct sir

UberBroncoMan
10-26-2011, 04:32 PM
I'm surprised no one has preemptively added Tebow to that list for SEC QB's.

Bronx33
10-26-2011, 04:41 PM
Ya know until they hit the NFL nobody knows whats going to happen it like they go out of their way to ruin these guys before they even are drafted.

Mile High Mojoe
10-26-2011, 04:54 PM
I've said this from the begining of the Luck hype lovefest, now finally someone has the nerve to question the competition Luck faces in the Pac 10. The Pac 10 DOES NOT measure up and here's his own teammate saying the same. The SEC is a better conference right now anyway and had Luck played there instead I doubt he'd have the numbers he's put at Stanford.

This thread will die a quick death is my guess because so many on this board have been suckered into believing he's the next John Elway. He isn't and doubt very seriously this kid will ever be.

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 05:20 PM
I've said this from the begining of the Luck hype lovefest, now finally someone has the nerve to question the competition Luck faces in the Pac 10. The Pac 10 DOES NOT measure up and here's his own teammate saying the same. The SEC is a better conference right now anyway and had Luck played there instead I doubt he'd have the numbers he's put at Stanford.

This thread will die a quick death is my guess because so many on this board have been suckered into believing he's the next John Elway. He isn't and doubt very seriously this kid will ever be.

...what?

You know Luck goes to Stanford and isn't a 49er, right?

Mile High Mojoe
10-26-2011, 05:26 PM
You're right I screwed up this post, he was a teammate of Russell not Luck. I confused my post there, still agree with him about Luck though.

TheReverend
10-26-2011, 05:27 PM
You're right I screwed up this post, he was a teammate of Russell not Luck. I confused my post there, still agree with him about Luck though.

Why? And once you've given that opinion, please use specific examples to support it, please.

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 05:57 PM
No there isn't. Shut the **** up.

Yes there is.. because there are many players that are elite NFL talent in the SEC. They have the most money throguh out the conference that goes into developing these player.s It's the best possible prep you can get for the NFL.

What you are saying is like saying a European basketball player playing against weak European competition won't get overrated compared to a player playing against NBA defenses.

If this was true there would be a much higher success rate of European players translating to the NBA.

What is really funny is that people are constantly saying a player playing well in college doesn't mean anything in the NFL when it comes to Tebow and then you have these same people who are drooling all over Luck.. it makes absolutely no sense..

Tim
10-26-2011, 06:09 PM
I think luck is the best qb in ncaa football right now but I don't think he can dominate alabama and lsu like he can all the soft pac 12 defenses.

huh??
10-26-2011, 06:23 PM
What is really funny is that people are constantly saying a player playing well in college doesn't mean anything in the NFL when it comes to Tebow and then you have these same people who are drooling all over Luck.. it makes absolutely no sense..

Valid point. I think what many are using to qualify Luck being such a good prospect is his upbringing by being a coach's son, and the "pro style" offense that he's been developed in. Does it always work? Hard to say. Elway's son didn't even care about playing football. Wasn't McDaniels' father some kind of coach too?

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 06:49 PM
Valid point. I think what many are using to qualify Luck being such a good prospect is his upbringing by being a coach's son, and the "pro style" offense that he's been developed in. Does it always work? Hard to say. Elway's son didn't even care about playing football. Wasn't McDaniels' father some kind of coach too?

That's why I say that these "greatest prospects ever" using the criteria they do - fundamentals - makes them glorified game managers. That is all they can really evaluate them on. That is the only thing you can say for sure about them. But hat doesn't mean they can really hack being a franchise Qb. Especially when the real hits start coming in the NFL.

i think NFL people are way to concerned with skill in this era. What good does being skilled mean when you have physical beasts crushing these finesse passers in this era?

These guys probably pass worse than Tebow at his worst after they take a savage beating from defenders in this era - unless you are Brady with Belichick. Or you happen to have all the pieces necessary to carry you.. great line, receivers, runnigbacks and D.

HAT
10-26-2011, 08:22 PM
I think luck is the best qb in ncaa football right now but I don't think he can dominate alabama and lsu like he can all the soft pac 12 defenses.



Pac-10 defenses look bad because the QB's and offensive game plans are so good. SEC defenses look good because the QB'ing and play calling are stuck in the 70's.

You drop Pete Carrol's Trojans in the SEC and Palmer/Leinart/Sanchito still get drafted very high. You drop the SEC's best defensive team of the 2000's in the Pac-10 for a year and the top level Pac 12 QB's still perform.

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 08:36 PM
Pac-10 defenses look bad because the QB's and offensive game plans are so good. SEC defenses look good because the QB'ing and play calling are stuck in the 70's.

You drop Pete Carrol's Trojans in the SEC and Palmer/Leinart/Sanchito still get drafted very high. You drop the SEC's best defensive team of the 2000's in the Pac-10 for a year and the top level Pac 12 QB's still perform.

so why couldn't oregon score on auburn then?

why couldnt bradford score on florida.. put up 60 on every big12 D

RhymesayersDU
10-26-2011, 08:41 PM
Why? And once you've given that opinion, please use specific examples to support it, please.

I'll field this question on his behalf.

He hates Andrew Luck for no other reason than people on this board like him. He doesn't know anything about Andrew Luck, it just infuriates him that people on this board are already looking on how to make this team better in the future. He believes we've got a chance to win the division, some playoff games, and the Super Bowl.

Make no mistake: He has no on-field opinion on Andrew Luck.

SoCalBronco
10-26-2011, 08:57 PM
I remember when RJF was a big deal coming out of Carol City. Then he underachieved at LSU, save for one game on a massive stage and ended up a 7th rounder, who's done very little in the league.

In other words, STFU RJF.

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 09:07 PM
so why couldn't oregon score on auburn then?

why couldnt bradford score on florida.. put up 60 on every big12 D

Oregon DID score on Auburn genius.

They scored 19 of them and BARELY lost to an Auburn team that paid Cam Newton to play football.

Thomas had nearly 400 yards passing vs. the Mighty Auburn defense and Auburn needed a last second FG to win the game.

Also…in 2008, OU did not score 60 points vs. every team in the Big 12.

So in summary both of your above statements have been proven to be bulll****.

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 09:11 PM
Luck is the best QB in college football right now. He is the entire package. Good athlete, size, big arm, can make every throw….and most importantly he can read defenses thanks to Harbaughs complex offense and coaching. In other words, Luck is damn smart.

I would argue that he would be FAR better in the SEC because he would be surrounded by the highest quality skill players. Imagine Luck throwing to SEC WR's, TE's and having a SEC running game?

Agamemnon
10-26-2011, 09:13 PM
I would argue that he would be FAR better in the SEC because he would be surrounded by the highest quality skill players. Imagine Luck throwing to SEC WR's, TE's and having a SEC running game?

I assume you are referring to LSU or Alabama. Every other SEC team would be a downgrade for the guy right now. Stanford has a lot of talent.

HAT
10-26-2011, 09:15 PM
so why couldn't oregon score on auburn then?



Because they didn't have a top level Pac 10 QB.

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 09:23 PM
I assume you are referring to LSU or Alabama. Every other SEC team would be a downgrade for the guy right now. Stanford has a lot of talent.

Don't forget Arkansas and South Carolina…


Luck makes that Stanford team…


Take a look at the scout.com recruiting class rankings…


Luck was a 5 star blue chipper and in his time at Stanford was the only 5 star offensive player they signed. Take a look at skill players on half the teams in the SEC….littered with 5 star blue chip talent.

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 09:24 PM
Because they didn't have a top level Pac 10 QB.

Their QB threw for nearly 400 yards and 2 TD's and nearly beat a semi pro team.

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 09:39 PM
I've said this from the begining of the Luck hype lovefest, now finally someone has the nerve to question the competition Luck faces in the Pac 10. The Pac 10 DOES NOT measure up and here's his own teammate saying the same. The SEC is a better conference right now anyway and had Luck played there instead I doubt he'd have the numbers he's put at Stanford.

This thread will die a quick death is my guess because so many on this board have been suckered into believing he's the next John Elway. He isn't and doubt very seriously this kid will ever be.

What conference did Elway play in in college?

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 09:44 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/49ers-defensive-tackle-doesn-8217-t-think-Luck-?urn=nfl-wp10439

i know any mention of the SEC is like catnip to MacGruder, but it's still NFL news of a sort, so worth posting.

I love that a guy with one career sack is talking about other players being overrated...

HAT
10-26-2011, 09:46 PM
Their QB threw for nearly 400 yards and 2 TD's and nearly beat a semi pro team.

Right....A top level Pac-10/12 QB of the last decade would've destroyed them.

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 09:48 PM
Right....A top level Pac-10/12 QB of the last decade would've destroyed them.

…but…


Auburn is in the SEC….how could that be?

strafen
10-26-2011, 09:49 PM
Three people said a complete and total bust was better than arguably the greatest QB in NFL history.. Do you think these three people would have said this had Leaf faced SEC D his whole career in college?

Yesterday some analyst said Andrew Luck was BETTER than Peyton Manning coming out of college..

If Luck played in the SEC NO one would be saying that because the SEC defenses would expose his weaknesses.. there is a very very high probability of this.

Andrew Luck is the real deal. I know you feel threaten by him because or your great support for Tebow.

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 10:10 PM
Andrew Luck is the real deal. I know you feel threaten by him because or your great support for Tebow.

You have got me totally wrong.. Luck doesn't threaten me at all. Tebow is going to get his real shot sooner or later.

If the Broncos dumped Tebow and got Luck somehow I think it would be the most hilarious thing in history. I almost hope it happens just for the epic lulz.

Just like I am going to lulz when cam Newton comes crashing back to Earth.

Every year there are 10 legendary college QBs who can't miss in the NFL yet the NFL can never find decent QBs.

I remember when people said Colt Brennan was better than Tebow.. his own college coach said the same thing. Then he faced an SEC D and got slaughtered.

I haven't really watched Luck enough to say whether he can or can't make it but from what I have seen it doesn't interest me to look deeper. The odds certainly say he won't pan out. They usually don't.

I don't see what separates Luck from any other prospect though.. This is what makes no sense to me about Tebow.. I have never seen a prospect like him and he proved himself against the toughest D. I can see people doubting him but I don't see how anyone can say he can't work.. because there has never been anyone like him. Not at all the case with Luck.

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 10:12 PM
Because they didn't have a top level Pac 10 QB.

So how did they dominate the Pac10 more than anyone else?

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 10:17 PM
Oregon DID score on Auburn genius.

They scored 19 of them and BARELY lost to an Auburn team that paid Cam Newton to play football.

And what did Oregon score against all the other PAC10 Ds? Much much more than against Auburn.

Just like Sam Bradford put up 60 points against BIG12 Ds and couldn't score to save his life against Florida.

Thomas had nearly 400 yards passing vs. the Mighty Auburn defense and Auburn needed a last second FG to win the game.

And Kyle Orton put up Dan Marino numbers last year.. what is your point?

Also…in 2008, OU did not score 60 points vs. every team in the Big 12.

So in summary both of your above statements have been proven to be bulll****.

Semantics.. they put up 60 on most of their opponents... they put up way more points than they ever would in the SEC. Bradford would have gotten WRECKED in the SEC playing that style he did in the BIG12. Just like Brantley did running Meyer's system. Tebow could take that physical punishment those guys couldn't. I highly doubt Luck could take it either..

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 10:21 PM
And what did Oregon score against all the other PAC10 Ds? Much much more than against Auburn.

Just like Sam Bradford put up 60 points against BIG12 Ds and couldn't score to save his life against Florida.



And Kyle Orton put up Dan Marino numbers last year.. what is your point?



Semantics.. they put up 60 on most of their opponents... they put up way more points than they ever would in the SEC. Bradford would have gotten WRECKED in the SEC playing that style he did in the BIG12. Just like Brantley did running Meyer's system. Tebow could take that physical punishment those guys couldn't. I highly doubt Luck could take it either..




I'm guessing that if Oregon played all 12 SEC teams, they would have blown most of them out.


Kyle Orton did not put up Dan Marino numbers last year. And my point was, Oregon moved the ball and scored against your mighty SEC opponent….when you said they didn't.


Brantley isn't a spread option QB….so why on Earth would he be successful?


And if you believe Tebow will succeed based on his SEC play, why don't you believe Newton won't?

MacGruder
10-26-2011, 10:37 PM
I'm guessing that if Oregon played all 12 SEC teams, they would have blown most of them out.

They had their chance and DIDN'T. What fantasy world is this in?


Kyle Orton did not put up Dan Marino numbers last year. And my point was, Oregon moved the ball and scored against your mighty SEC opponent….when you said they didn't.

They scored far far far less than against PAC10 opponents... how can I state it more simply? They looked like a SEC offense.. worse in fact. And again.. try it a full season and see how long their QB lasts..

Brantley isn't a spread option QB….so why on Earth would he be successful?

So then why did Florida play him? They chose him over Cam Newton which is why cam left Florida. The reason is Cam could not run Florida's offense. Auburn had runners and a great line that allowed him to be successful Something he has on the Panthers as well.


And if you believe Tebow will succeed based on his SEC play, why don't you believe Newton won't?

I never said all SEC QBs would be good NFL QBs.. I said that they are usually underrated compared to non-SEC teams.

But Cam was in a very unique situation and is a unique player as well. Cam has really lived the charm life the past season and a half. It's ironic because everyone said Tebow was just lucky and it's really Cam that has had all the incredible fortune.. well not entirely luck.. he has a service place him in the ideal environment for success. And the same thing is happening in Carolina.

If Cam was on the Broncos with Fox as his coach he would be going through all the same issues Tebow is but even worse.. because I don't think he would have the mental toughness to get through it.. or the ability to work through those issues.

I view Cam as a bizarro version of Orton when he won those 6 games when first coming to the Broncos. This is the honeymoon period...

Lestat
10-26-2011, 10:40 PM
but he was also considered to be a safer pick than Ryan Leaf.
Leaf was considered by many to be the better talent but the worry was that he could bust out. Peyton was considered to be safe and would at worst be a 10-15 year solid QB. Leaf was HOF or out of the league quickly.
He was drafted #1 overall...

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 10:40 PM
They had their chance and DIDN'T. What fantasy world is this in?




They scored far far far less than against PAC10 opponents... how can I state it more simply? They looked like a SEC offense.. worse in fact. And again.. try it a full season and see how long their QB lasts..



So then why did Florida play him? They chose him over Cam Newton which is why cam left Florida. The reason is Cam could not run Florida's offense. Auburn had runners and a great line that allowed him to be successful Something he has on the Panthers as well.




I never said all SEC QBs would be good NFL QBs.. I said that they are usually underrated compared to non-SEC teams.

But Cam was in a very unique situation and is a unique player as well. Cam has really lived the charm life the past season and a half. It's ironic because everyone said Tebow was just lucky and it's really Cam that has had all the incredible fortune.. well not entirely luck.. he has a service place him in the ideal environment for success. And the same thing is happening in Carolina.

If Cam was on the Broncos with Fox as his coach he would be going through all the same issues Tebow is but even worse.. because I don't think he would have the mental toughness to get through it.. or the ability to work through those issues.

I view Cam as a bizarro version of Orton when he won those 6 games when first coming to the Broncos. This is the honeymoon period...

Are you a Florida Gator fan?

Lestat
10-26-2011, 10:44 PM
Auburn was a solid team without Cam Newton, they were great with him.
Carolina is/was not a fortunate situation.
they're a bad team and while they do have more talent overall than most teams that pick #1.

they were and are still a poor team.

They had their chance and DIDN'T. What fantasy world is this in?




They scored far far far less than against PAC10 opponents... how can I state it more simply? They looked like a SEC offense.. worse in fact. And again.. try it a full season and see how long their QB lasts..



So then why did Florida play him? They chose him over Cam Newton which is why cam left Florida. The reason is Cam could not run Florida's offense. Auburn had runners and a great line that allowed him to be successful Something he has on the Panthers as well.




I never said all SEC QBs would be good NFL QBs.. I said that they are usually underrated compared to non-SEC teams.

But Cam was in a very unique situation and is a unique player as well. Cam has really lived the charm life the past season and a half. It's ironic because everyone said Tebow was just lucky and it's really Cam that has had all the incredible fortune.. well not entirely luck.. he has a service place him in the ideal environment for success. And the same thing is happening in Carolina.

If Cam was on the Broncos with Fox as his coach he would be going through all the same issues Tebow is but even worse.. because I don't think he would have the mental toughness to get through it.. or the ability to work through those issues.

I view Cam as a bizarro version of Orton when he won those 6 games when first coming to the Broncos. This is the honeymoon period...

StugotsIII
10-26-2011, 10:45 PM
"So then why did Florida play him? They chose him over Cam Newton which is why cam left Florida. The reason is Cam could not run Florida's offense. Auburn had runners and a great line that allowed him to be successful Something he has on the Panthers as well."


You do realize that Newton was suspended from the team for stealing a laptop and then transferred as a result…right?


If Newton HAD stayed…he would have started after Tebow left. That is a fact.

Mile High Mojoe
10-26-2011, 11:22 PM
As for this idea by some Broncos Fans who think the Broncos should lay down and "Suck for Luck" listen to what TE Anthony Fasano said after listening to Dolphins Fans chanting for Luck during the game against the Broncos.

"It's sick, actually," Fasano said. "I can't even fathom those thoughts of those people that conjure up that stuff. They have never played sports and pretty much aren't really our loyal fans. I can't really put any weight into that and I know the players don't listen to it. It's a shame, but people are going to talk and we just have to block that out."

I agree 100%, I can't imagine any scenario where the Broncos lose on purpose to get a player whether he's the greatest QB to come out college since John Elway, which Luck is far from being. I think it's a moot point because I think going forward the Broncos will end up winning to many games to be in the hunt. As mentioned by others trading away the house to get Luck if the Broncos win more games than they lose the rest of the season would be a enormous blunder.