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pricejj
10-17-2011, 11:57 AM
How much value have the Broncos lost since Xanders became GM?

1. Cutler trade:
Give:Jay Cutler and 2009 5th round pick (Johny Knox) to Chicago Bears
Get: Kyle Orton, 2009 1st round pick (Robert Ayers), 2009 3rd round pick (Mike Wallace), and 2010 1st round pick

2. Alphonso Smith draft trade:
Give: 2010 1st round pick to Seattle Seahawks (#14 pick Earl Thomas), Iupati and Pouncey still on the board
Get: 2009 2nd round pick (Alphonso Smith)

3. Trade for Richard Quinn:
Give: Broncos traded two 2009 3rd round picks (Mike Wallace, Kraig Urbik) to Pittsburgh Steelers
Get: 2nd round pick (Richard Quinn), and a 4th round pick (Seth Olson)

4. Brandon Marshall trade.
Give: Brandon Marshall to the Miami Dolphins
Get: 2010 2nd round pick (Sergio Kindle), 2011 2nd round pick (Orlando Franklin)

5. Hillis trade:
Give: Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round draft pick
Get: Brady Quinn

6. Trading down in 2010 1st round for Demaryius Thomas:
Give: #11 overall (Anthony Davis OT) to Chicago (SF)
Get: #13 overall and 4th round pick (Aaron Hernandez TE)
Give: #13 overall (Brandon Graham DE) to Eagles
Get: #24 overall and two 2010 3rd round picks (Eric Decker, and trade to Ravens)
Give: #24 overall (Dez Bryant), and 4th round pick (Aaron Hernandez) to NE
Get: #22 overall (Demaryius Thomas)

7. Trading up in 2010 1st round for Tim Tebow:
Give: 2010 2nd round pick (Sergio Kindle), 2010 3rd round pick (Ed *****on), and 4th round pick (Dennis Pitta).
Get: #25 Tim Tebow

8. Trading away Alphonso Smith:
Give: 2009 2nd round pick (Alphonso Smith) to Lions
Get: 2009 7th round pick (Dan Gronkowski)

9. Lawrence Maroney trade:
Give: 2011 4th round pick to NE
Get: Lawrence Maroney and 2011 6th round pick

10. Jabar Gaffney trade:
Give: Jabar Gaffney to Redskins
Get: Jereny Jarmon (cut)

11. Brandon Lloyd trade:
Give: Brandon Lloyd
Get: 2012 6th round pick (conditional)

edog24
10-17-2011, 12:00 PM
I hear he makes a mean pie. Let's start a paypal acct for some billboards.

ColoradoDarin
10-17-2011, 12:00 PM
Your first statement isn't true.

Edit: Thanks for fixing it.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 12:02 PM
Can we get a real GM that doesn't answer to Elway or Fox in the process? If so, then I fully support this. I don't hate all those moves to be honest, but we really need someone who knows how to build a team running the show here. And we clearly don't have that.

Rohirrim
10-17-2011, 12:09 PM
Then who gets the pizza?

It would be a disaster.

jhns
10-17-2011, 12:13 PM
Fire him and Ellis. The Broncos have gone down hill since these two showed up. We don't have to figure out whos fault it is if we just fire everyone that was on staff before this offseason.

Drunk Monkey
10-17-2011, 12:18 PM
Can we get a real GM that doesn't answer to Elway or Fox in the process? If so, then I fully support this. I don't hate all those moves to be honest, but we really need someone who knows how to build a team running the show here. And we clearly don't have that.

Not possible, if the GM doesn't answer to Elway then Elway has no function on the team. If that's what you want you need to can Elway also.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 12:19 PM
Not possible, if the GM doesn't answer to Elway then Elway has no function on the team. If that's what you want you need to can Elway also.

I'm fine with this. Or he can keep a position as a powerless figurehead. Either would work for me.

oubronco
10-17-2011, 12:19 PM
Fire them all who needs leadership

Mr. Elway
10-17-2011, 12:20 PM
Not sure if all your trade details are correct. Didn't we get two second rounders for Marshall? Also wasn't there a pick involved in the Hillis trade also?

Also isn't it fairly common knowledge that McDaniels had the primary say in most of this? Certainly the players we drafted with the picks acquired.

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 12:28 PM
lol @ the Lloyd trade being the last straw in firing Xanders/Elway.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 12:30 PM
lol @ the Lloyd trade being the last straw in firing Xanders/Elway.

This wasn't my last straw. Five games of Orton starting to begin the season was my last straw. I have zero faith in EFX at this point. Zero.

WABronco
10-17-2011, 12:32 PM
Someone get this to dove valley STAT

jhns
10-17-2011, 12:33 PM
lol @ the Lloyd trade being the last straw in firing Xanders/Elway.

You are the first person to mention Elway being fired. There have been multiple threads dedicated to firing Xanders over the past year+.

You are making up drama, while proving you can't read...

UberBroncoMan
10-17-2011, 12:33 PM
It's well known McD had the final say on all the **** that went on while he was here.

As for Lloyd, he was gone after the year anyway and we're not making the playoffs.

We're getting a pick next year now instead of waiting for two years. W/E

bronco militia
10-17-2011, 12:35 PM
mehhh...it could be worse


http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/vikesdie-448x600.jpg

24champ
10-17-2011, 12:42 PM
It's well known McD had the final say on all the **** that went on while he was here.


Not necessarily. Particularly with the Jay Cutler saga, that was purely Pat Bowlen's move. They had an ongoing feud before McD showed up.

WolfpackGuy
10-17-2011, 12:43 PM
Does he even do anything other than order pizza or crunch the occasional number?

oubronco
10-17-2011, 12:44 PM
mehhh...it could be worse


http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/vikesdie-448x600.jpg

Awesome LOL ROFL!

BlueandOrange32
10-17-2011, 01:00 PM
He answers to Bowlen, who seems to have been doing this type of crap before Xanders ever came on the scene.

Starting with Sundquist in 2008.

But, whatever.

jhns
10-17-2011, 01:04 PM
He answers to Bowlen, who seems to have been doing this type of crap before Xanders ever came on the scene.

Starting with Sundquist in 2008.

But, whatever.

How is Sundquist even close to the same as these trades? Who exactly gets better value from firing a GM? Why are you defending a guy that was so horrible with personnel? We had two of tye leagues best drafts in the three years after Sundquist was fired... I shouldn't even have to say what was happening before he was fired...

pricejj
10-17-2011, 01:05 PM
Not sure if all your trade details are correct. Didn't we get two second rounders for Marshall? Also wasn't there a pick involved in the Hillis trade also?

Also isn't it fairly common knowledge that McDaniels had the primary say in most of this? Certainly the players we drafted with the picks acquired.

fixed

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 01:19 PM
You are the first person to mention Elway being fired. There have been multiple threads dedicated to firing Xanders over the past year+.

You are making up drama, while proving you can't read...

Considering a few posts up, someone said they were ok with Elway being fired or being a powerless figurehead, I would suggest it is you that needs to read.

And me, responding to a thread of people overreacting and creating drama over essentially nothing, is me making up drama?

Ok.

jhns
10-17-2011, 01:23 PM
Considering a few posts up, someone said they were ok with Elway being fired or being a powerless figurehead, I would suggest it is you that needs to read.

And me, responding to a thread of people overreacting and creating drama over essentially nothing, is me making up drama?

Ok.

No one has claimed that Elway needs to be fired. You are making up drama, or just can't read...

Over reacting? We have gone from respectable to the worst season in franchise history, with Xanders as GM... What would you say it takes to get fired in the NFL?

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 01:25 PM
Considering a few posts up, someone said they were ok with Elway being fired or being a powerless figurehead, I would suggest it is you that needs to read.

And me, responding to a thread of people overreacting and creating drama over essentially nothing, is me making up drama?

Ok.

Are there people who wouldn't prefer that if it was part of the price to get a real GM who actually knew how to build a team? Really?

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 01:25 PM
This wasn't my last straw. Five games of Orton starting to begin the season was my last straw. I have zero faith in EFX at this point. Zero.

So, if Tebow starts the whole season then you'd have faith in EFX?

I don't have faith in Tebow as a QB, but hope I'm wrong.

Lestat
10-17-2011, 01:29 PM
i get the desiring to fire Xanders part, i can even see firing Ellis.
Elway is in his first year at the helm. he didn't take over the 1998 team that had some pretty good talent. this team is horrendously bereft of talent.

there has to be a complete overhaul and it will take time. it's not going to be a quick 1-2 year fix. this reminds me of all the Packer fans who loathed Ted Thompson and wanted him fired during his first years of the job. now they think he's the best GM in the league.

there are things that could have been done a lot better but Elway is a rookie again and he's going to make mistakes.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 01:30 PM
So, if Tebow starts the whole season then you'd have faith in EFX?

I don't have faith in Tebow as a QB, but hope I'm wrong.

No. The offseason put a huge dent in what little faith I had in them to start. Then the failed Orton trade. Then the decision to start the bum. I was never sold on this trio. Elway has no qualifications to run an NFL team. Xanders has never been a true GM, and has no record of success to speak of. And while I tried to give Fox the benefit of the doubt, he's just killed it for me with his coaching decisions and offensive philosophy.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 01:33 PM
i get the desiring to fire Xanders part, i can even see firing Ellis.
Elway is in his first year at the helm. he didn't take over the 1998 team that had some pretty good talent. this team is horrendously bereft of talent.

there has to be a complete overhaul and it will take time. it's not going to be a quick 1-2 year fix. this reminds me of all the Packer fans who loathed Ted Thompson and wanted him fired during his first years of the job. now they think he's the best GM in the league.

there are things that could have been done a lot better but Elway is a rookie again and he's going to make mistakes.

So you're putting your money on a guy that has no experience running an NFL team being able to turn things around? Retaining Xanders as GM and hiring a coach whose philosophies are stuck in the 70s doesn't seem like a good start to me, but hey maybe the long shot will pay off.

24champ
10-17-2011, 01:35 PM
i get the desiring to fire Xanders part, i can even see firing Ellis.
Elway is in his first year at the helm. he didn't take over the 1998 team that had some pretty good talent. this team is horrendously bereft of talent.

there has to be a complete overhaul and it will take time. it's not going to be a quick 1-2 year fix. this reminds me of all the Packer fans who loathed Ted Thompson and wanted him fired during his first years of the job. now they think he's the best GM in the league.

there are things that could have been done a lot better but Elway is a rookie again and he's going to make mistakes.

Elway is nowhere near what Ted Thompson was in his first years with the Packers. Thompson had experience when he took over the Packers.

Prior to becoming the Packers' general manager, Thompson served with the Seattle Seahawks as their vice president of operations from 2000 to 2004. Thompson had previously worked for the Packers organization from 1992 to 1999, serving as their assistant director of pro personnel in 1992, their director of pro personnel from 1993 to 1997, and their director of player personnel from 1997 to 1999.

Show me were Elway has this type of experience? I'm afraid Elway is out of his element. We need to hire real FO types with tons of experience to execute Drafts and Free Agency properly.

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 01:37 PM
Are there people who wouldn't prefer that if it was part of the price to get a real GM who actually knew how to build a team? Really?

I've been critical of Elway myself. Strongly questioned the idea of someone with no front office experience, having such a big role in making decisions.

But Elway had next to no impact on what Fox did with the QB situation, other then I guess not dealing out Orton when he had the chance.

He had a good draft. Didn't get a lot of free agents, but what teams in rebuild mode do? I think it'll take a few years before we can say anything about him either way.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 01:41 PM
I've been critical of Elway myself. Strongly questioned the idea of someone with no front office experience, having such a big role in making decisions.

But Elway had next to no impact on what Fox did with the QB situation, other then I guess not dealing out Orton when he had the chance.

He had a good draft. Didn't get a lot of free agents, but what teams in rebuild mode do? I think it'll take a few years before we can say anything about him either way.

But if given the choice right now, you wouldn't give him the boot if that was part of what was required to get a true GM who knew how to build a team?

KevinJames
10-17-2011, 01:44 PM
How much value have the Broncos lost since Xanders became GM?

1. Cutler trade:
Give:Jay Cutler and 2009 5th round pick (Johny Knox) to Chicago Bears
Get: Kyle Orton, 2009 1st round pick (Robert Ayers), 2009 3rd round pick (Mike Wallace), and 2010 1st round pick

2. Alphonso Smith draft trade:
Give: 2010 1st round pick to Seattle Seahawks (#14 pick Earl Thomas), Iupati and Pouncey still on the board
Get: 2009 2nd round pick (Alphonso Smith)

3. Trade for Richard Quinn:
Give: Broncos traded two 2009 3rd round picks (Mike Wallace, Kraig Urbik) to Pittsburgh Steelers
Get: 2nd round pick (Richard Quinn), and a 4th round pick (Seth Olson)

4. Brandon Marshall trade.
Give: Brandon Marshall to the Miami Dolphins
Get: 2010 2nd round pick (Sergio Kindle), 2011 2nd round pick (Orlando Franklin)

5. Hillis trade:
Give: Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round draft pick
Get: Brady Quinn

6. Trading down in 2010 1st round for Demaryius Thomas:
Give: #11 overall (Anthony Davis OT) to Chicago (SF)
Get: #13 overall and 4th round pick (Aaron Hernandez TE)
Give: #13 overall (Brandon Graham DE) to Eagles
Get: #24 overall and two 2010 3rd round picks (Eric Decker, and trade to Ravens)
Give: #24 overall (Dez Bryant), and 4th round pick (Aaron Hernandez) to NE
Get: #22 overall (Demaryius Thomas)

7. Trading up in 2010 1st round for Tim Tebow:
Give: 2010 2nd round pick (Sergio Kindle), 2010 3rd round pick (Ed *****on), and 4th round pick (Dennis Pitta).
Get: #25 Tim Tebow

8. Trading away Alphonso Smith:
Give: 2009 2nd round pick (Alphonso Smith) to Lions
Get: 2009 7th round pick (Dan Gronkowski)

9. Lawrence Maroney trade:
Give: 2011 4th round pick to NE
Get: Lawrence Maroney and 2011 6th round pick

10. Jabar Gaffney trade:
Give: Jabar Gaffney to Redskins
Get: Jereny Jarmon (cut)

11. Brandon Lloyd trade:
Give: Brandon Lloyd
Get: 2012 6th round pick (conditional)

I doubt Xanders had much to do with most of these....

jhns
10-17-2011, 01:45 PM
I doubt Xanders had much to do with most of these....

That isn't an argument that favors Xanders.

snowspot66
10-17-2011, 01:47 PM
Show me were Elway has this type of experience? I'm afraid Elway is out of his element. We need to hire real FO types with tons of experience to execute Drafts and Free Agency properly.

I don't get this.

Seems to me we did great on the draft and nearly every free agent they have brought in has been a solid addition to our team.

Honestly, what more do you want?

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 01:49 PM
No one has claimed that Elway needs to be fired. You are making up drama, or just can't read...

Over reacting? We have gone from respectable to the worst season in franchise history, with Xanders as GM... What would you say it takes to get fired in the NFL?

Saying you'd be okay with someone being fired, sounds like an endorsement to get fired to me. Me saying I'd be okay with Orton getting cut, sounds like I endorse the move.

And yeah, we sucked last year. Would it have been better if we were .500, and kept McDaniels for another year or two?

We were bad last season. If that was enough to fire him, then we should have fired him... FREAKING LAST OFF-SEASON. Almost all of the decisions made by the Broncos were made by McDaniels, not Xanders. Xanders was mainly a salary/numbers guy. He's still not the guy making most of the decisions.

We are rebuilding. That usually involves a lot of losing. Kinda sucks but it's better then "respectable." **** respectable. We've been 'respectable' 10 of the last 11 seasons until last year.

jhns
10-17-2011, 01:53 PM
Saying you'd be okay with someone being fired, sounds like an endorsement to get fired to me. Me saying I'd be okay with Orton getting cut, sounds like I endorse the move.

And yeah, we sucked last year. Would it have been better if we were .500, and kept McDaniels for another year or two?

We were bad last season. If that was enough to fire him, then we should have fired him... FREAKING LAST OFF-SEASON. Almost all of the decisions made by the Broncos were made by McDaniels, not Xanders. Xanders was mainly a salary/numbers guy. He's still not the guy making most of the decisions.

We are rebuilding. That usually involves a lot of losing. Kinda sucks but it's better then "respectable." **** respectable. We've been 'respectable' 10 of the last 11 seasons until last year.

He was the GM while this franchise was driven into the ground... Saying that the GM wasn't involved in decision making, is not a good defense of the GM...

So you are saying you would rather be one of the worst teams in the league? No wonder you like Xanders...

You are right though, he should have been fired in the offseason.

Lestat
10-17-2011, 01:56 PM
i said it reminded me of the situation, i didn't directly compare the two.
when Thompson came in he was expected to win, win now and win big.
he didn't produce like the fans wanted and for years they clamored for his head and called him an idiot.

my point was that you have to give it time to work. constantly switching out FO guys every 2 years isn't going to work.
let Elway do his job, learn from his mistakes and improve. there is no GM who can wave his magic wand and fix this mess.

Elway did a good job this draft, found some nice contributors and some starters.
he's going to have to build upon that next year in the draft and FA.

Elway is nowhere near what Ted Thompson was in his first years with the Packers. Thompson had experience when he took over the Packers.



Show me were Elway has this type of experience? I'm afraid Elway is out of his element. We need to hire real FO types with tons of experience to execute Drafts and Free Agency properly.

24champ
10-17-2011, 02:02 PM
Seems to me we did great on the draft

Picking in the top 5 is easy, but getting value in the later rounds is critical to our teams depth. Outside of Von Miller, Moore, and maybe Franklin. Time will tell if Nate Irving, Quinton Carter, Julius Thomas, Mike Mohamed, Virgil Green stick around beyond next season or so.


nearly every free agent they have brought in has been a solid addition to our team.

Could have brought in more Corner depth and also add more to the DL. This FO is operating on a shoestring budget that is in place by Ellis and it shows. This team is 1-4, and showing minimal signs of improvement over last season.

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 02:03 PM
But if given the choice right now, you wouldn't give him the boot if that was part of what was required to get a true GM who knew how to build a team?

Depends what you mean by true GM. There's a lot of teams that thought they were getting a true GM (Dolphins in Parcells for instance, Browns with Holmgren, I'd argue Pioli in KC), that are now or will likely be in shambles by the end of the season.

I'm not even saying that I think Elway will be a success as a GM, as he would not have been my pick. But now that we picked him, it's going to be problematic just firing him/putting him in a position where he's just a figurehead.

Teams need stability. We can't keep firing front office guys/coaching staff, and expect to go from a bad team to an average team to an contending team. I don't like losing either, but being in a losing pattern is a lot worse

It's basically the same way I see Tebow. Wouldn't have been my pick, but now that we have him I think he deserves 3 seasons for I can say he's a success for failure as a QB.

Rohirrim
10-17-2011, 02:05 PM
Elway has done a lot of great things for this franchise. I think I'll give him at least a couple of seasons trying to fix the total wreckage he walked into before I start calling for his head.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 02:06 PM
Picking in the top 5 is easy, but getting value in the later rounds is critical to our teams depth. Outside of Von Miller, Moore, and maybe Franklin. Time will tell if Nate Irving, Quinton Carter, Julius Thomas, Mike Mohamed, Virgil Green stick around beyond next season or so.

Could have brought in more Corner depth and also add more to the DL. This FO is operating on a shoestring budget that is in place by Ellis and it shows. This team is 1-4, and showing minimal signs of improvement over last season.

Actually, I'd say outside Von Miller none of our picks are clear cut hits. And honestly Franklin has been much better than Moore so far. Basically the pro-EFX people are hanging on Von Miller right now, and nothing else. EFX has done pretty much nothing right (at least not conclusively) outside that one pick so far.

Edit: Signing McGahee was a solid move.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 02:13 PM
Depends what you mean by true GM. There's a lot of teams that thought they were getting a true GM (Dolphins in Parcells for instance, Browns with Holmgren, I'd argue Pioli in KC), that are now or will likely be in shambles by the end of the season.

I'm not even saying that I think Elway will be a success as a GM, as he would not have been my pick. But now that we picked him, it's going to be problematic just firing him/putting him in a position where he's just a figurehead.

Teams need stability. We can't keep firing front office guys/coaching staff, and expect to go from a bad team to an average team to an contending team. I don't like losing either, but being in a losing pattern is a lot worse

It's basically the same way I see Tebow. Wouldn't have been my pick, but now that we have him I think he deserves 3 seasons for I can say he's a success for failure as a QB.

That's a fair point. I just have such an issue with the hiring of a guy based off of nothing but the fact that he was a great player for us. And the hiring of Fox and retaining of Xanders haven't helped my misgivings. But here's hoping I'm wrong. Because if I'm right, it's going to be a long time before we are a winning team again. I'd much rather be wrong.

lonestar
10-17-2011, 02:19 PM
How much value have the Broncos lost since Xanders became GM?

1. Cutler trade:
Give:Jay Cutler and 2009 5th round pick (Johny Knox) to Chicago Bears
Get: Kyle Orton, 2009 1st round pick (Robert Ayers), 2009 3rd round pick (Mike Wallace), and 2010 1st round pick

2. Alphonso Smith draft trade:
Give: 2010 1st round pick to Seattle Seahawks (#14 pick Earl Thomas), Iupati and Pouncey still on the board
Get: 2009 2nd round pick (Alphonso Smith)

3. Trade for Richard Quinn:
Give: Broncos traded two 2009 3rd round picks (Mike Wallace, Kraig Urbik) to Pittsburgh Steelers
Get: 2nd round pick (Richard Quinn), and a 4th round pick (Seth Olson)

4. Brandon Marshall trade.
Give: Brandon Marshall to the Miami Dolphins
Get: 2010 2nd round pick (Sergio Kindle), 2011 2nd round pick (Orlando Franklin)

5. Hillis trade:
Give: Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round draft pick
Get: Brady Quinn

6. Trading down in 2010 1st round for Demaryius Thomas:
Give: #11 overall (Anthony Davis OT) to Chicago (SF)
Get: #13 overall and 4th round pick (Aaron Hernandez TE)
Give: #13 overall (Brandon Graham DE) to Eagles
Get: #24 overall and two 2010 3rd round picks (Eric Decker, and trade to Ravens)
Give: #24 overall (Dez Bryant), and 4th round pick (Aaron Hernandez) to NE
Get: #22 overall (Demaryius Thomas)

7. Trading up in 2010 1st round for Tim Tebow:
Give: 2010 2nd round pick (Sergio Kindle), 2010 3rd round pick (Ed *****on), and 4th round pick (Dennis Pitta).
Get: #25 Tim Tebow

8. Trading away Alphonso Smith:
Give: 2009 2nd round pick (Alphonso Smith) to Lions
Get: 2009 7th round pick (Dan Gronkowski)

9. Lawrence Maroney trade:
Give: 2011 4th round pick to NE
Get: Lawrence Maroney and 2011 6th round pick

10. Jabar Gaffney trade:
Give: Jabar Gaffney to Redskins
Get: Jereny Jarmon (cut)

11. Brandon Lloyd trade:
Give: Brandon Lloyd
Get: 2012 6th round pick (conditional)
LOL are you eally serious?ROFL!

ever look at what mikey did for 14 years on day one..

now that will make a real fan cry..
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame

2006 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan

2005 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State

2004 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan

2003 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State

2002 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State

2001 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State

2000 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M

1999 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida

1998 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan

1997 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 28 Trevor Pryce LB Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas

1996 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M



now those are keepers if I ever saw some..

KNOW how many of those slugs signed a second contract with DEN after teh rookie contract expired?
5
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
1 28 Trevor Pryce LB Clemson
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)

talk about a waste of a GM..

Lestat
10-17-2011, 02:20 PM
the only thing that makes me angry with EFX is the handling of free agency.
but i don't know how much of that lack of crucial spending was due in part to budget constraints.

not signing MeBane,Franklin,Jenkins or someone of that ilk when the cash was there as a outside observer makes me question the moves.

the draft was pretty good for the Broncos, we took some projects who if they pan out will be huge for the future, if they don't it will be trouble.
Miller,Moore and Franklin have been solid so far but we will hopefully begin to see much more of the draft class emerge later on.
we can't have wasted classes anymore, that's what has plagued us since around 2001 or so.

UberBroncoMan
10-17-2011, 02:31 PM
Our FO for the past three years below.

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/28860062?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/28860062"></a> <a href="http://vimeo.com/user6149008"></a> <a href="http://vimeo.com"></a>.</p>

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 02:35 PM
talk about a waste of a GM..

How does Shanny sucking as a GM (very true by the way) affect whether or not Xanders sucks? Red herring argument if ever there was one.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 02:36 PM
Our FO for the past three years below.


Hope that kid didn't die. I'd feel bad for laughing so hard if he did. Hilarious!

lonestar
10-17-2011, 02:37 PM
I've been critical of Elway myself. Strongly questioned the idea of someone with no front office experience, having such a big role in making decisions.

But Elway had next to no impact on what Fox did with the QB situation, other then I guess not dealing out Orton when he had the chance.

He had a good draft. Didn't get a lot of free agents, but what teams in rebuild mode do? I think it'll take a few years before we can say anything about him either way.

good post

FWIW
our EFX is a combo GM . With Xanders as GM not making all the decisions by himself..

He is the one to execute the deals once it is decided what needs to be done.. he is the guy they call for trades.
I'll just bet that he seeks guidance from John before making the final decision..

Unlike some on here that thinks he is running willing nilly doing things by himself as stated in post one..

Now tha said I was from day one. well not actually day one but somewhere during mikeys REGIME after seeing the debacle he made in player acquisitions. I decided I'd like to have a REAL experienced GM as the first thing I'd do if I were the owner... and let him make the coaching hires down to and including position coaches ( while listening to the HC I hired) but making the final decision..

Now since I was not in charge Pat decided to do it in other ways..

This last change with Elway hired first was a Step in the right direction..
but the retention of Xman was not necessarily a bad choice..

WOuld I have rather had Ploian, Pioli or the ex TE that runs the Ravens as my first choice I'm guessing that when they asked them they said they would stay put.. ;)

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 02:43 PM
This isn't a new phenomenon. None of them deserve their jobs and that's been apparent for years.

lonestar
10-17-2011, 02:43 PM
the only thing that makes me angry with EFX is the handling of free agency.
but i don't know how much of that lack of crucial spending was due in part to budget constraints.

not signing MeBane,Franklin,Jenkins or someone of that ilk when the cash was there as a outside observer makes me question the moves.

the draft was pretty good for the Broncos, we took some projects who if they pan out will be huge for the future, if they don't it will be trouble.
Miller,Moore and Franklin have been solid so far but we will hopefully begin to see much more of the draft class emerge later on.
we can't have wasted classes anymore, that's what has plagued us since around 2001 or so.

Mebane was said to say he wanted to sstay where he was just wanted more money, going FA got him that.

You have to remember that not everyone wants to play in a cowtown (poorti$$ and several others quotes)..
MAny would love to play in the Big Media cities oposed to the media waste land of DEN..
others do not want to play half their games in bad weather, lots of reasons not to like DEN.. very few of them grew up in Colorado and their perception of DEN is skiing (snow cold) and Buffalos roaming in the mountains.... What the TV cut to during NFL commercials

lonestar
10-17-2011, 02:49 PM
That isn't an argument that favors Xanders.

Why?

Mikey was given a pass on all of his FUBARS and he did them all as the guy in charge..

Xman carried out orders from the guy in charge.. no one went to the ovens on his watch. Some questionable (by fans no less) moves were made.. with out knowing what really happened..

typical overkill ROFL!ROFL!ROFL!

jhns
10-17-2011, 02:51 PM
Why?

Mikey was given a pass on all of his FUBARS and he did them all as the guy in charge..

Xman carried out orders from the guy in charge.. no one went to the ovens on his watch. Some questionable (by fans no less) moves were made.. with out knowing what really happened..

typical overkill ROFL!ROFL!ROFL!

Bowlen has stated multiple times that the GM had more power than under Shanahan. Shanahans GMs were also fired... How is that an argument that favors Xanders?

pricejj
10-17-2011, 02:57 PM
Why?

Mikey was given a pass on all of his FUBARS and he did them all as the guy in charge..

Xman carried out orders from the guy in charge.. no one went to the ovens on his watch. Some questionable (by fans no less) moves were made.. with out knowing what really happened..

typical overkill ROFL!ROFL!ROFL!

Shanahan was not a good GM, but he was a great coach, and kept the Broncos competitive...what is the win-loss record with Xanders as GM?

Lestat
10-17-2011, 03:04 PM
that may be true, but if you flash enough cash people tend to get over perceptions. just wonder how much of it was hard line budget.
Mebane was said to say he wanted to sstay where he was just wanted more money, going FA got him that.

You have to remember that not everyone wants to play in a cowtown (poorti$$ and several others quotes)..
MAny would love to play in the Big Media cities oposed to the media waste land of DEN..
others do not want to play half their games in bad weather, lots of reasons not to like DEN.. very few of them grew up in Colorado and their perception of DEN is skiing (snow cold) and Buffalos roaming in the mountains.... What the TV cut to during NFL commercials

lonestar
10-17-2011, 03:05 PM
Shanahan was not a good GM, but he was a great coach, and kept the Broncos competitive...what is the win-loss record with Xanders as GM?

great coach AYE just how many playoff games did he win with out QB named JOHN..

how many years did they start out like guys with their balls on fire, only to whimper into the playoffs.. on the toe of Elam becasue we sucked in the red zone..

Yep great coach Imagine what he could ahve done with real players and not hundreds of millions in DEAD cap space over his regime..

lonestar
10-17-2011, 03:07 PM
that may be true, but if you flash enough cash people tend to get over perceptions. just wonder how much of it was hard line budget.

mikey did that for a decade and it did not get us another Lombardi..

it just wastes money.. hunderds a of millions

probably the reason that Pat is not Plush like he used to be..

lonestar
10-17-2011, 03:08 PM
Bowlen has stated multiple times that the GM had more power than under Shanahan. Shanahans GMs were also fired... How is that an argument that favors Xanders?
and your poiint is?

Xman did it all by himself?

Lestat
10-17-2011, 03:10 PM
to be fair though, the ones that flamed out were obvious to everybody and their momma beforehand.
now some were just bad luck but most were just flat out stupid.

on paper we landed Warren and Bunkley, that gives you Warren,Bunkley,Vickerson,Thomas & McBean for depth.
but not nearly enough depth to pass up some of those top tier FA guys after not reaching for guys in the draft.

mikey did that for a decade and it did not get us another Lombardi..

it just wastes money.. hunderds a of millions

probably the reason that Pat is not Plush like he used to be..

maher_tyler
10-17-2011, 03:28 PM
Then who gets the pizza?

It would be a disaster.

I ****ing hate working hungry!

pricejj
10-17-2011, 03:50 PM
great coach AYE just how many playoff games did he win with out QB named JOHN..

how many years did they start out like guys with their balls on fire, only to whimper into the playoffs.. on the toe of Elam becasue we sucked in the red zone..

Yep great coach Imagine what he could ahve done with real players and not hundreds of millions in DEAD cap space over his regime..

Dude aren't we past this argument yet? I'm talking the here and now...we sucked in the redzone because of a lack of talent on the OL...the GM Shanahan, thought he could turn all late round linemen into Nalen.

It's almost 2012 bro.

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 03:59 PM
He was the GM while this franchise was driven into the ground... Saying that the GM wasn't involved in decision making, is not a good defense of the GM...

So you are saying you would rather be one of the worst teams in the league? No wonder you like Xanders...

You are right though, he should have been fired in the offseason.

It's a good defense when you're judging him on things that he wasn't really involved in. I don't even like Xanders. Just don't think firing him is going to turn around the team like some people here seem to think?

And I don't WANT us to be one of the worst teams in the league. I want us to go in full rebuild mode, rather then hanging around .500 like we have most post-Super Bowl years mainly with a lot of veterans that have little room to improve.

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 04:02 PM
That's a fair point. I just have such an issue with the hiring of a guy based off of nothing but the fact that he was a great player for us. And the hiring of Fox and retaining of Xanders haven't helped my misgivings. But here's hoping I'm wrong. Because if I'm right, it's going to be a long time before we are a winning team again. I'd much rather be wrong.

I agree that hiring him based on him being the greatest Bronco of all time, was highly questionable. For what it's worth, I hope I'm wrong on Tebow.

lonestar
10-17-2011, 04:08 PM
Dude aren't we past this argument yet? I'm talking the here and now...we sucked in the redzone because of a lack of talent on the OL...the GM Shanahan, thought he could turn all late round linemen into Nalen.

It's almost 2012 bro.

Yep that is correct but Everyone uses mikey as the yardstick as how great they expect everyone that comes after him has to be or want them to be..

Just a giving a reality check to those that are still sucking on that teat..

lonestar
10-17-2011, 04:11 PM
It's a good defense when you're judging him on things that he wasn't really involved in. I don't even like Xanders. Just don't think firing him is going to turn around the team like some people here seem to think?

And I don't WANT us to be one of the worst teams in the league. I want us to go in full rebuild mode, rather then hanging around .500 like we have most post-Super Bowl years mainly with a lot of veterans that have little room to improve.


works for me and that means building via the draft and keeping those kids that are up and coming until even them can be replaced with better players..

But both of us KNOW it will not happen after this next draft like all the kiddies, madden GMs, or FF owners do..

Turd_Ferguson
10-17-2011, 04:27 PM
Are there people who wouldn't prefer that if it was part of the price to get a real GM who actually knew how to build a team? Really?

No no, you got it all wrong. They need to hire a GM that has absolutely no experience what so ever in the NFL. Some one that has never negotiated an NFL contract, or played the game. Someone that has never played on a suberbowl winning team. Hell they shouldn't even have any experience running an arena league team. In fact it would be best if they were someone that had absolutely ZERO experience dealing with any aspect of the NFL what so ever... HEY! Agamemnon should send in his resume!

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 04:35 PM
No no, you got it all wrong. They need to hire a GM that has absolutely no experience what so ever in the NFL. Some one that has never negotiated an NFL contract, or played the game. Someone that has never played on a suberbowl winning team. Hell they shouldn't even have any experience running an arena league team. In fact it would be best if they were someone that had absolutely ZERO experience dealing with any aspect of the NFL what so ever... HEY! Agamemnon should send in his resume!

Jesus Christ you are a moron. Me saying that Elway isn't qualified for the job does not mean that I think I am. ****ing idiot.

vonqkilla
10-17-2011, 04:48 PM
3 year plan folks. Tons of holes. It all starts sunday.

eddie mac
10-17-2011, 04:54 PM
This isn't a new phenomenon. None of them deserve their jobs and that's been apparent for years.

Spot on Rev.

HILife
10-17-2011, 06:20 PM
How much value have the Broncos lost since Xanders became GM?

1. Cutler trade:
Give:Jay Cutler and 2009 5th round pick (Johny Knox) to Chicago Bears
Get: Kyle Orton, 2009 1st round pick (Robert Ayers), 2009 3rd round pick (Mike Wallace), and 2010 1st round pick

2. Alphonso Smith draft trade:
Give: 2010 1st round pick to Seattle Seahawks (#14 pick Earl Thomas), Iupati and Pouncey still on the board
Get: 2009 2nd round pick (Alphonso Smith)

3. Trade for Richard Quinn:
Give: Broncos traded two 2009 3rd round picks (Mike Wallace, Kraig Urbik) to Pittsburgh Steelers
Get: 2nd round pick (Richard Quinn), and a 4th round pick (Seth Olson)

4. Brandon Marshall trade.
Give: Brandon Marshall to the Miami Dolphins
Get: 2010 2nd round pick (Sergio Kindle), 2011 2nd round pick (Orlando Franklin)

5. Hillis trade:
Give: Peyton Hillis, 2011 6th round draft pick
Get: Brady Quinn

6. Trading down in 2010 1st round for Demaryius Thomas:
Give: #11 overall (Anthony Davis OT) to Chicago (SF)
Get: #13 overall and 4th round pick (Aaron Hernandez TE)
Give: #13 overall (Brandon Graham DE) to Eagles
Get: #24 overall and two 2010 3rd round picks (Eric Decker, and trade to Ravens)
Give: #24 overall (Dez Bryant), and 4th round pick (Aaron Hernandez) to NE
Get: #22 overall (Demaryius Thomas)

7. Trading up in 2010 1st round for Tim Tebow:
Give: 2010 2nd round pick (Sergio Kindle), 2010 3rd round pick (Ed *****on), and 4th round pick (Dennis Pitta).
Get: #25 Tim Tebow

8. Trading away Alphonso Smith:
Give: 2009 2nd round pick (Alphonso Smith) to Lions
Get: 2009 7th round pick (Dan Gronkowski)

9. Lawrence Maroney trade:
Give: 2011 4th round pick to NE
Get: Lawrence Maroney and 2011 6th round pick

10. Jabar Gaffney trade:
Give: Jabar Gaffney to Redskins
Get: Jereny Jarmon (cut)

11. Brandon Lloyd trade:
Give: Brandon Lloyd
Get: 2012 6th round pick (conditional)

This is causing me so much pain right now.

SoCalBronco
10-17-2011, 06:59 PM
I'm fine with this. Or he can keep a position as a powerless figurehead. Either would work for me.

Agreed

jhns
10-17-2011, 07:42 PM
and your poiint is?

Xman did it all by himself?

Yes. That is clearly what was said. Great reading comprehension.

jhns
10-17-2011, 07:43 PM
It's a good defense when you're judging him on things that he wasn't really involved in. I don't even like Xanders. Just don't think firing him is going to turn around the team like some people here seem to think?

And I don't WANT us to be one of the worst teams in the league. I want us to go in full rebuild mode, rather then hanging around .500 like we have most post-Super Bowl years mainly with a lot of veterans that have little room to improve.

Who said it would turn the team around? How was the GM not involved in anything? Why would you care if he was fired if he isn't doing anything?

24champ
10-17-2011, 08:57 PM
This isn't a new phenomenon. None of them deserve their jobs and that's been apparent for years.

This is true.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/bale_and_kermit.gif

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 09:06 PM
Who said it would turn the team around? How was the GM not involved in anything? Why would you care if he was fired if he isn't doing anything?

Isn't the purpose of making a front office firing being that you think you can hire someone else that does it better?

Again, it's my understanding that Xanders is a cap/numbers guy. Assuming that is correct, I don't think that's doing "nothing." Teams generally hire such people when they have inexperienced people making the final decision on players/contracts. That's not to say that Xanders has no knowledge of football, but I don't think he is the primary decision maker on draft day/free agency/trades.

Firing Xanders would be similar to firing your accountant because your merger with a top company made the company stock plummet.

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 09:09 PM
works for me and that means building via the draft and keeping those kids that are up and coming until even them can be replaced with better players..

But both of us KNOW it will not happen after this next draft like all the kiddies, madden GMs, or FF owners do..

It'll probably take longer, you're right. I'm foolishly optimistic at the beginning of the season though (think I predicted 10-6 this season haha), and then as the season spirals out of control I become overly pessimistic (4-12 if we're incredibly lucky).

It's a vicious cycle.

Popps
10-17-2011, 09:57 PM
How much value have the Broncos lost since Xanders became GM?

1. Cutler trade:

Good riddance.

2. Alphonso Smith draft trade:

Definite mistake.

3. Trade for Richard Quinn:

Bad pick at the end of the 2nd round. Not a shocker.

4. Brandon Marshall trade.

Absolute win. Marshall is useless. Franklin has a chance to be a long-term answer at tackle.

5. Hillis trade:

Obviously not great in hindsight, but with a need for a back-up QB and Hillis clearly demonstrating now with three different staffs that he's got personality issues... dealing him for something isn't a shock.

6. Trading down in 2010 1st round for Demaryius Thomas:

So, we traded down and got 2 potential starting WR's for a team that needed them desperately? Big deal.

7. Trading up in 2010 1st round for Tim Tebow:

Looks like he has a chance to be our starting QB. You'd prefer it was Quinn at this point?

8. Trading away Alphonso Smith:

He isn't exactly lighting the world on fire.

9. Lawrence Maroney trade:

Obvious error, though with no healthy backs and the season in the balance, a move was understandable. The compensation was simply too high.

10. Jabar Gaffney trade:

But, you're not going to mention the Bunkley trade? Only the one that didn't work out? Gaffney seemed expendable at the beginning of the season. We had massive needs on DL. They made an attempt.

11. Brandon Lloyd trade:

Jury is out on this, but it doesn't look good.



You're right that some of these moves sucked, no question. But, you're cherry-picking with whom we could have drafted and you're omitting deals that brought us starters like Bunkley and Mays at discount rates. You're also discounting a pretty great looking draft class from this year. Probably the best defensive player in the draft, a RT that looks great early on... a starting FS and some developmental players.

Go back a few years earlier and let's look at big contracts for guys like Boss Bailey and bringing in Niko Koutouvides as the "premiere" defensive move for an off-season. Travis Henry?

See, we can do this **** all day. Bottom line is, we have a new coaching staff and it's going to take time to see what kind of philosophy they have and what kind of product they put on the field.

People should have figured out by now that we're rebuilding... for real. That's not always going to look pretty. But, you just hope that the end-result is worth the pain.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 10:00 PM
Isn't the purpose of making a front office firing being that you think you can hire someone else that does it better?

Again, it's my understanding that Xanders is a cap/numbers guy. Assuming that is correct, I don't think that's doing "nothing." Teams generally hire such people when they have inexperienced people making the final decision on players/contracts. That's not to say that Xanders has no knowledge of football, but I don't think he is the primary decision maker on draft day/free agency/trades.

Firing Xanders would be similar to firing your accountant because your merger with a top company made the company stock plummet.

That certainly isn't how the FO has portrayed the situation. But then again, they've been known to lie from time to time...

Requiem
10-17-2011, 10:02 PM
Montrose, 24champ, Drek, Mediator, MUG, SpringStein and Rev are now in charge of personnel decisions.

Turd_Ferguson
10-17-2011, 10:26 PM
Jesus Christ you are a moron. Me saying that Elway isn't qualified for the job does not mean that I think I am. ****ing idiot.

Oh so your you're not qualified for the job, you're just qualified to talk out of your *ss about the job, and qualified to determine who is qualified to do the job that you are not qualified to do? Thanks for clearing that up I feel like such a ****ing idiot moron for not realizing that.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 10:42 PM
Oh so your you're not qualified for the job, you're just qualified to talk out of your *ss about the job, and qualified to determine who is qualified to do the job that you are not qualified to do? Thanks for clearing that up I feel like such a ****ing idiot moron for not realizing that.

No you should feel like such a ****ing moron for thinking your post holds up to even the most simple of logic.

If I told you a proctologist was going to attempt to remove a brain tumor from your brain, would you be okay with that? If you complained that a proctologist wasn't qualified for such surgery would you accept when the nurse told you that you couldn't possibly know who was or wasn't qualified to do brain surgery unless you were qualified to do it yourself? Of course not.

Seriously dude, you should think things through before posting.

Que
10-17-2011, 10:56 PM
No no, you got it all wrong. They need to hire a GM that has absolutely no experience what so ever in the NFL. Some one that has never negotiated an NFL contract, or played the game. Someone that has never played on a suberbowl winning team. Hell they shouldn't even have any experience running an arena league team. In fact it would be best if they were someone that had absolutely ZERO experience dealing with any aspect of the NFL what so ever...

Herman Cain for GM! He'd probably make a kickass GM if you think about it.

pricejj
10-17-2011, 11:13 PM
You're right that some of these moves sucked, no question. But, you're cherry-picking with whom we could have drafted and you're omitting deals that brought us starters like Bunkley and Mays at discount rates. You're also discounting a pretty great looking draft class from this year. Probably the best defensive player in the draft, a RT that looks great early on... a starting FS and some developmental players.

Go back a few years earlier and let's look at big contracts for guys like Boss Bailey and bringing in Niko Koutouvides as the "premiere" defensive move for an off-season. Travis Henry?

See, we can do this **** all day. Bottom line is, we have a new coaching staff and it's going to take time to see what kind of philosophy they have and what kind of product they put on the field.

People should have figured out by now that we're rebuilding... for real. That's not always going to look pretty. But, you just hope that the end-result is worth the pain.

I will give you the Joe Mays trade (for J.J. Arrington), and picking up Bunkley for a conditional 2013 pick (not sure what the terms are?)...but I am not even getting into the terrible FA decisions, contracts, and wasted $ that have occurred under Xanders watch (Jarvis Green, Justin Bannan, Renaldo Hill, Ty Warren, etc. ad nauseam). We can get into that in another thread...

lonestar
10-18-2011, 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhns View Post
Bowlen has stated multiple times that the GM had more power than under Shanahan. Shanahans GMs were also fired... How is that an argument that favors Xanders?

and your poiint is?

Xman did it all by himself?

Yes. That is clearly what was said. Great reading comprehension.

SO you really believe that Xman did all of that by himself with NO DIRECTION from anyone above or aside him..

Josh was not involved, nor PAt or Joe..

all of this because Pat made an off hand comment about Xman having more power than any of the GM dejures under mikey.

I'm guessing if I did some research your one of the ones that was calling/posting Pat a drunk with Alzheimers.

Now everything he said had to be true..ROFL!ROFL!ROFL!

If so, I have some ocean front, white sandy beach land for sale here in El Paso.. give you a really great price on it..

jhns
10-18-2011, 06:19 AM
and your poiint is?

Xman did it all by himself?



SO you really believe that Xman did all of that by himself with NO DIRECTION from anyone above or aside him..

Josh was not involved, nor PAt or Joe..

all of this because Pat made an off hand comment about Xman having more power than any of the GM dejures under mikey.

I'm guessing if I did some research your one of the ones that was calling/posting Pat a drunk with Alzheimers.

Now everything he said had to be true..ROFL!ROFL!ROFL!

If so, I have some ocean front, white sandy beach land for sale here in El Paso.. give you a really great price on it..

Yes, this is my exact argument. Again, your reading comprehension is outstanding. Keep up the good work...

lonestar
10-18-2011, 07:47 AM
Yes, this is my exact argument. Again, your reading comprehension is outstanding. Keep up the good work...

Then I guess if yiu believe that off handed remark your interested in that ocean front property.

As you will bite on anything off hand or in Pats case a feeble mind that some folks infered.

Requiem
10-18-2011, 07:49 AM
Yes, this is my exact argument. Again, your reading comprehension is outstanding. Keep up the good work...

:spit: :wiggle:

jhns
10-18-2011, 07:49 AM
Then I guess if yiu believe that off handed remark your interested in that ocean front property.

As you will bite on anything off hand or in Pats case a feeble mind that some folks infered.

Or, you can realize that you don't understand English.

TheChamp24
10-18-2011, 07:54 AM
You're right that some of these moves sucked, no question. But, you're cherry-picking with whom we could have drafted and you're omitting deals that brought us starters like Bunkley and Mays at discount rates. You're also discounting a pretty great looking draft class from this year. Probably the best defensive player in the draft, a RT that looks great early on... a starting FS and some developmental players.

Go back a few years earlier and let's look at big contracts for guys like Boss Bailey and bringing in Niko Koutouvides as the "premiere" defensive move for an off-season. Travis Henry?

See, we can do this **** all day. Bottom line is, we have a new coaching staff and it's going to take time to see what kind of philosophy they have and what kind of product they put on the field.

People should have figured out by now that we're rebuilding... for real. That's not always going to look pretty. But, you just hope that the end-result is worth the pain.

Shanny sure did make some blunders in FA.
Thing people probably don't remember about Henry is he was actually doing really well at the start of his Bronco career. Then things just went way south for him.
Darryl Gardner, Dale Carter, that Ravens backup DL that we signed to start and sucked, yuck. I still remember how excited people were on here when we got Niko, saying he'd be our next stud MLB. Yeah, signing a former backup special teamer LB to start at MLB for us. Awesome.

jhns
10-18-2011, 07:59 AM
Fire him and Ellis. The Broncos have gone down hill since these two showed up. We don't have to figure out whos fault it is if we just fire everyone that was on staff before this offseason.

Here you go lonestar. Do you see how I said it was only Xanders, as I claimed everybody that was in the front office before this offseason needs fired? Xanders was our entire front office last season, right?

Hamrob
10-18-2011, 05:39 PM
Can we get a real GM that doesn't answer to Elway or Fox in the process? If so, then I fully support this. I don't hate all those moves to be honest, but we really need someone who knows how to build a team running the show here. And we clearly don't have that.I don't think Elway is the problem (at all). I think that he said that there is nowhere to hide for Xanders, that he will get to prove himself. At the end of the year...if he proves that he doesn't know what he is doing...he will be gone!

Interesting to me...is that Casserly was interviewed on the DB website. I would not be surprise one bit...If Elway fires Xanders after the season.

Fox will get at lest another year to prove himself.

lonestar
10-18-2011, 06:10 PM
Or, you can realize that you don't understand English.

As a matter of fact one of my majors.

I have come to a place in life where I could care less about a bunch of internet thugs/bullies/purists/DREAMers whine about the spelling of my posts..

Now will repeat this for your klingons, as for you if the shoes fits wear it..

"It is better to be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt"- Dale Carniege, How to Win Friends and Influnece People. 1936

Popps
10-18-2011, 06:15 PM
Shanny sure did make some blunders in FA.
Thing people probably don't remember about Henry is he was actually doing really well at the start of his Bronco career. Then things just went way south for him.
Darryl Gardner, Dale Carter, that Ravens backup DL that we signed to start and sucked, yuck. I still remember how excited people were on here when we got Niko, saying he'd be our next stud MLB. Yeah, signing a former backup special teamer LB to start at MLB for us. Awesome.

This stuff just isn't easy. People on football message boards (myself included) like to yap about things after the fact... but this stuff is difficult. That's why even the best football minds like Shanahan have problems building winning teams. At least he did it once, thankfully.

Fox and Co. will simply need more time. I like a lot of what I'm seeing. Some, not so much. There's no way to form definitive judgments at this stage.

lonestar
10-18-2011, 06:19 PM
Here you go lonestar. Do you see how I said it was only Xanders, as I claimed everybody that was in the front office before this offseason needs fired? Xanders was our entire front office last season, right?

Off the top of my head NO..

while I have not commmited the the manning chart to memory I can assure you that there are some 50+ other FO employees that work for the Broncos, that are not on the field folks.

frankly I doubt that all of them need to be fired..

Br0nc0Buster
10-18-2011, 06:37 PM
I dont really get the Xanders hate, I thought it was a known fact Josh had final say on personal matters

He was the one willing and dealing, all I heard was Xanders was just the cap guy

As far as Im concerned this past offseason was his first where he actually had GM roles

So far I think he did a pretty good job on the draft and brought in a few quality FAs

Ive been more impressed with our offseason acquisitions that I have of Fox's coaching

jhns
10-18-2011, 08:02 PM
As a matter of fact one of my majors.

I have come to a place in life where I could care less about a bunch of internet thugs/bullies/purists/DREAMers whine about the spelling of my posts..

Now will repeat this for your klingons, as for you if the shoes fits wear it..

"It is better to be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt"- Dale Carniege, How to Win Friends and Influnece People. 1936

Who said anything about your spelling? Way to prove my point...

Agamemnon
10-19-2011, 04:48 AM
I don't think Elway is the problem (at all). I think that he said that there is nowhere to hide for Xanders, that he will get to prove himself. At the end of the year...if he proves that he doesn't know what he is doing...he will be gone!

Interesting to me...is that Casserly was interviewed on the DB website. I would not be surprise one bit...If Elway fires Xanders after the season.

Fox will get at lest another year to prove himself.

And in that case Elway walks away unscathed? "Oops I blew it by keeping Xanders and hiring Fox, but now I've fired them. Everything's good..."

Seriously?

pricejj
03-14-2012, 12:43 PM
Reasons:

1. Saying that Manning would not affect free agency period. Hasn't signed anyone because we are "waiting for Manning".
2. Do not have a legitimate startine #2 receiver. Xanders doesn't seem to care, letting all free agent WR's sign with other teams.
3. The only visiting free agent has been Brandon Meriweather.
4. Apparently Mike Adams (SS) is on a plane to Denver...showing NO interest in Reggie Nelson (SS).
5. Have not signed any of our own free agents.
6. Missing a starting WR, NT, SS, MLB, TE, FB, backup QB, and WOLB...EFX are not interested in bringing in any replacements.
7. Chris Meyers (C) is on the market...Xanders waits by the phone for Manning.


Feel free to add on to the list.

DenverBrit
03-14-2012, 12:46 PM
Reasons:

1. Saying that Manning would not affect free agency period. Hasn't signed anyone because we are "waiting for Manning".
2. Do not have a legitimate startine #2 receiver. Xanders doesn't seem to care, letting all free agent WR's sign with other teams.
3. The only visiting free agent has been Brandon Meriweather.
4. Apparently Mike Adams (SS) is on a plane to Denver...showing NO interest in Reggie Nelson (SS).
5. Have not signed any of our own free agents.
6. Missing a starting WR, NT, SS, MLB, TE, FB, backup QB, and WOLB...EFX are not interested in bringing in any replacements.
7. Chris Meyers (C) is on the market...Xanders waits by the phone for Manning.


Feel free to add on to the list.
LOL

You're all knowing. It must be a burden for you.

pricejj
03-14-2012, 12:57 PM
LOL

You're all knowing. It must be a burden for you.

WR - Eddie Royal is gone - EFX has shown no interest in viable replacements
NT - Tried to lowball Brodrick Bunkley - Who the heck knows where he is. Soliai?
SS - Mike Adams is on his way. Reggie Nelson isn't even on the radar
MLB - Have heard hide nor hair about signing anyone
TE - Guess we're waiting on Dallas Clark
FB - No RB's have scheduled any visits
backup QB - ....waiting...
WOLB - D.J. is suspended. Wesley Woodyard? Who knows?

That's 6 starters that need to be signed through free agency or the draft.

broncosteven
03-14-2012, 01:02 PM
Reasons:

1. Saying that Manning would not affect free agency period. Hasn't signed anyone because we are "waiting for Manning".
2. Do not have a legitimate startine #2 receiver. Xanders doesn't seem to care, letting all free agent WR's sign with other teams.
3. The only visiting free agent has been Brandon Meriweather.
4. Apparently Mike Adams (SS) is on a plane to Denver...showing NO interest in Reggie Nelson (SS).
5. Have not signed any of our own free agents.
6. Missing a starting WR, NT, SS, MLB, TE, FB, backup QB, and WOLB...EFX are not interested in bringing in any replacements.
7. Chris Meyers (C) is on the market...Xanders waits by the phone for Manning.



Feel free to add on to the list.

Meyers is more of a Zone block C, not a power guy.

houghtam
03-14-2012, 01:06 PM
Reasons:

1. Saying that Manning would not affect free agency period. Hasn't signed anyone because we are "waiting for Manning".
2. Do not have a legitimate startine #2 receiver. Xanders doesn't seem to care, letting all free agent WR's sign with other teams.
3. The only visiting free agent has been Brandon Meriweather.
4. Apparently Mike Adams (SS) is on a plane to Denver...showing NO interest in Reggie Nelson (SS).
5. Have not signed any of our own free agents.
6. Missing a starting WR, NT, SS, MLB, TE, FB, backup QB, and WOLB...EFX are not interested in bringing in any replacements.
7. Chris Meyers (C) is on the market...Xanders waits by the phone for Manning.

Feel free to add on to the list.


But adding Manning makes us instantly a contender, so...there's that.

pricejj
03-14-2012, 01:07 PM
Meyers is more of a Zone block C, not a power guy.

The Broncos are running a ZB system with McCoy/Magazu...and Walton is the worst rated Center in the league...but he is only costing about $500,000 a year. That would be a "value" in Xanders eyes.

bendog
03-14-2012, 01:09 PM
you guys are killing me. If only josh woudl come back.

DenverBrit
03-14-2012, 01:09 PM
WR - Eddie Royal is gone - EFX has shown no interest in viable replacements
NT - Tried to lowball Brodrick Bunkley - Who the heck knows where he is. Soliai?
SS - Mike Adams is on his way. Reggie Nelson isn't even on the radar
MLB - Have heard hide nor hair about signing anyone
TE - Guess we're waiting on Dallas Clark
FB - No RB's have scheduled any visits
backup QB - ....waiting...
WOLB - D.J. is suspended. Wesley Woodyard? Who knows?

That's 6 starters that need to be signed through free agency or the draft.


Your comment:

EFX are not interested in bringing in any replacements.

Where did you read this??

pricejj
03-14-2012, 01:18 PM
Your comment:


Where did you read this??

Usually when a team shows interest in a free agent, they schedule a visit. If you are implying that they are showing interest in guys, and being turned down for visits...then we have bigger problems than I ever imagined.

Hulamau
03-14-2012, 01:26 PM
Fire them all who needs leadership

Yeah go for it!! Replace the whole front office with jhns and MacGoober and then its Super Bowl for sure this year!!!

jhns
03-14-2012, 01:28 PM
Yeah go for it!! Replace the whole front office with jhns and MacGoober and then its Super Bowl for sure this year!!!

Macgruder would get punched and thrown out. I would easily have this team in the SB. You can look up my posts. I have been right about pretty much every move this franchise has made. Then, that just makes me smarter than McDaniels, Xanders, Fox, and Elway... Not exactly a high bar in terms of front office guys.

UberBroncoMan
03-14-2012, 01:31 PM
It's pretty ****ing obvious what we're doing. If we get Manning, we unload for w/e is left in terms of stud FA's. If we don't get Manning we go into the year $30 million or so under the cap.

It's ****ing clear.

pricejj
03-14-2012, 01:53 PM
It's pretty ****ing obvious what we're doing. If we get Manning, we unload for w/e is left in terms of stud FA's. If we don't get Manning we go into the year $30 million or so under the cap.

It's ****ing clear.

That might actually be a good idea if Tebow/Manning don't work out. Rollover $30M to next year, and see what happens.

CEH
03-14-2012, 01:57 PM
It's pretty ****ing obvious what we're doing. If we get Manning, we unload for w/e is left in terms of stud FA's. If we don't get Manning we go into the year $30 million or so under the cap.

It's ****ing clear.

I agree. Denver has decided to blow it's wad on Manning. Had they not decided to go after Peyton I'm not convinced they would have done anything major yesterday anyways much to the displeasure of this board. I know they didn't take the Redskins/Cowboy bounty this year deferring to next year

bronco militia
03-14-2012, 02:32 PM
I agree. Denver has decided to blow it's wad on Manning. Had they not decided to go after Peyton I'm not convinced they would have done anything major yesterday anyways much to the displeasure of this board. I know they didn't take the Redskins/Cowboy bounty this year deferring to next year

exactly....this would have been on par with the last few years. (since shanny left)

DomCasual
03-14-2012, 02:40 PM
I agree. Denver has decided to blow it's wad on Manning. Had they not decided to go after Peyton I'm not convinced they would have done anything major yesterday anyways much to the displeasure of this board. I know they didn't take the Redskins/Cowboy bounty this year deferring to next year

That's my guess. Elway looked at Manning as the only reason he'd throw out the plan of being patient and building through the draft. If Manning doesn't sign, you go back to the plan of signing bargain-basement free agents, and building through the draft. You see if Tebow develops, and look at the QB situation on a year-to-year basis. If someone comes up via free agency, or the draft (through either our own pick, or a chance to move up to get someone else's), then you get him. Outside of that, you stay with Tebow, and hope for the best.

Either way, Manning's decision drives the process. If he doesn't sign with us, you haven't lost anything, because you probably weren't going to be buying the guys going in the first few days, anyway.

Jason7730
03-14-2012, 02:44 PM
I don't get this.

Seems to me we did great on the draft and nearly every free agent they have brought in has been a solid addition to our team.

Honestly, what more do you want?

I agree with this and I fully support Elway.........and always have. That's how I feel. Go Broncos!!

DenverBrit
03-14-2012, 03:15 PM
Usually when a team shows interest in a free agent, they schedule a visit. If you are implying that they are showing interest in guys, and being turned down for visits...then we have bigger problems than I ever imagined.

LOL

Talk about ducking and weaving. I said no such thing.

Support your assertion that: EFX are not interested in bringing in any replacements.

JCMElway
03-14-2012, 03:28 PM
It's well known McD had the final say on all the **** that went on while he was here.

As for Lloyd, he was gone after the year anyway and we're not making the playoffs.

We're getting a pick next year now instead of waiting for two years. W/E

QFT

Rohirrim
03-14-2012, 03:30 PM
That's my guess. Elway looked at Manning as the only reason he'd throw out the plan of being patient and building through the draft. If Manning doesn't sign, you go back to the plan of signing bargain-basement free agents, and building through the draft. You see if Tebow develops, and look at the QB situation on a year-to-year basis. If someone comes up via free agency, or the draft (through either our own pick, or a chance to move up to get someone else's), then you get him. Outside of that, you stay with Tebow, and hope for the best.

Either way, Manning's decision drives the process. If he doesn't sign with us, you haven't lost anything, because you probably weren't going to be buying the guys going in the first few days, anyway.

This kind of post really brings down the board, Mr. Buzz-kill.

orangeatheist
03-14-2012, 03:33 PM
That's my guess. Elway looked at Manning as the only reason he'd throw out the plan of being patient and building through the draft. If Manning doesn't sign, you go back to the plan of signing bargain-basement free agents, and building through the draft. You see if Tebow develops, and look at the QB situation on a year-to-year basis. If someone comes up via free agency, or the draft (through either our own pick, or a chance to move up to get someone else's), then you get him. Outside of that, you stay with Tebow, and hope for the best.

Either way, Manning's decision drives the process. If he doesn't sign with us, you haven't lost anything, because you probably weren't going to be buying the guys going in the first few days, anyway.

Brilliant post.

pricejj
04-26-2012, 08:05 PM
I told you Xanders was running this ****. It has been the same thing for the past 4 years. Trading down and losing value. LOSER

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 08:07 PM
So let me get this straight, when things don't go the way you people want it's Xander's fault, and when things go the way you want it's Elway's doing? ::)

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2012, 08:11 PM
You don't trade back 11 picks in the first for one 4th round pick in a shallow draft...dumb azzes.

KevinJames
04-26-2012, 08:17 PM
When we make mistakes in people's eyes its Xanders when we do great its Elway lmao make up your damn mind people.

Realize its a 3 man War Room and I didn't think the move down was that bad at all.

Kid A
04-26-2012, 08:17 PM
lol One other team gets better value on a similar trade back, and suddenly our front office is the worst in the league. Right. And of course we could have drafted Worthy at 25 and nobody bats an eye, and yet apparently that would have been a reach. Not saying they pulled off a great value move, but it doesn't strike me as really getting shafted. Certainly not on par with giving a future 1st for Alphonso Smith.

errand
04-26-2012, 08:18 PM
This wasn't my last straw. Five games of Orton starting to begin the season was my last straw. I have zero faith in EFX at this point. Zero.

31 other teams to choose from dude......

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2012, 08:22 PM
espn reporting denver lost 82 - 90 points in draft value

we don't play to lose.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-26-2012, 08:23 PM
"we feel we're good with the players we have already".

Xander's in 2009, 2010, 2011 offseasons.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 08:24 PM
31 other teams to choose from dude......

Or I can simply wait out the EFX era. It's what fans do all the time when their teams are run by dip****s.

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2012, 08:37 PM
Our #25 was worth 720 points....we traded it for what would eventually be #36 (540 points) and the 101st pick (96 points). WE GAVE UP 84 points tonight from that stupid decision...84 points is enough to have another 4th round from 106 to 126th...or 2 additional 5th rounders or 3 additional 6ths....just stupid!

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

KevinJames
04-26-2012, 08:40 PM
Our #25 was worth 720 points....we traded it for what would eventually be #36 (540 points) and the 101st pick (96 points). WE GAVE UP 84 points tonight from that stupid decision...84 points is enough to have another 4th round from 106 to 126th...or 2 additional 5th rounders or 3 additional 6ths....just stupid!

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

trade chart is out of date.....everyone was losing in point value trading back according to that thing.

ThirtyDegrees
04-26-2012, 08:43 PM
Elway needs to go to, he is completely unqualified.

Hope this helps.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 08:43 PM
Or I can simply wait out the EFX era. It's what fans do all the time when their teams are run by dip****s.

That's where I'm at. Broncos don't at least win a playoff game this year I'm done until Bowlen sells the team.

Taco John
04-26-2012, 08:47 PM
Can we get a real GM that doesn't answer to Elway or Fox in the process?

LOL

What are you talking about? Of course not. John Elway is the top dog - Bowlen isn't hiring someone for Elway to answer to.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 08:49 PM
LOL

What are you talking about? Of course not. John Elway is the top dog - Bowlen isn't hiring someone for Elway to answer to.

And therein lies the problem...

Taco John
04-26-2012, 08:49 PM
And therein lies the problem...

Elway has done nothing but improve the team since he's been here.

ThirtyDegrees
04-26-2012, 08:50 PM
LOL

What are you talking about? Of course not. John Elway is the top dog - Bowlen isn't hiring someone for Elway to answer to.

Which is why we have no chance of winning a Super Bowl in the forseeable future.

This front office just told us that replacing Peyton Manning with Tim Tebow is literally all that needed to be done for this team to win a Super Bowl.

They did nothing in FA to improve the line, receivers, or defense, and they decided to trade down to stock up on players that won't improve the starting lineup next season.

Elway is probably high fiving Michael Jordan and Isiah Thomas right now. At least the Bulls and Pistons were smart enough not to hire them to ruin their teams.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-26-2012, 08:52 PM
Which is why we have no chance of winning a Super Bowl in the forseeable future.

This front office just told us that replacing Peyton Manning with Tim Tebow is literally all that needed to be done for this team to win a Super Bowl.

They did nothing in FA to improve the line, receivers, or defense, and they decided to trade down to stock up on players that won't improve the starting lineup next season.

Elway is probably high fiving Michael Jordan and Isiah Thomas right now. At least the Bulls and Pistons were smart enough not to hire them to ruin their teams.

So youre a goodman fan?

ThirtyDegrees
04-26-2012, 08:53 PM
So youre a goodman fan?

Porter won't make any difference with gaping holes at DT, MLB, and S.

Jekyll15Hyde
04-26-2012, 08:55 PM
Our #25 was worth 720 points....we traded it for what would eventually be #36 (540 points) and the 101st pick (96 points). WE GAVE UP 84 points tonight from that stupid decision...84 points is enough to have another 4th round from 106 to 126th...or 2 additional 5th rounders or 3 additional 6ths....just stupid!

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

I look at more just with Pats deal....

Look at what Minn and Balt did.

Balt goes from 29 to 35 and gets 98. We go from 25 to 31 and get 126. It isnt exactly the same but a relatively comparable jump. 126 vs 98 is almost a full round delta.

Taco John
04-26-2012, 08:57 PM
This front office just told us that replacing Peyton Manning with Tim Tebow is literally all that needed to be done for this team to win a Super Bowl.



Derrrrr - WUT?

cmhargrove
04-26-2012, 08:57 PM
Which is why we have no chance of winning a Super Bowl in the forseeable future.

This front office just told us that replacing Peyton Manning with Tim Tebow is literally all that needed to be done for this team to win a Super Bowl.

They did nothing in FA to improve the line, receivers, or defense, and they decided to trade down to stock up on players that won't improve the starting lineup next season.

Elway is probably high fiving Michael Jordan and Isiah Thomas right now. At least the Bulls and Pistons were smart enough not to hire them to ruin their teams.

Are you high? Do you even know what the **** you are saying? What do you mean replacing Manning with Tebow, it was the other way around. These are the Broncos, not the Jets, do you even follow this team?

BroncoInferno
04-26-2012, 08:58 PM
Elway has done nothing but improve the team since he's been here.

Agammenon and his idiot buddies can't except any reality other than TEBOW. LOL goddamn...stupid. EFX has made this team better in so many ways.

Taco John
04-26-2012, 08:59 PM
I don't know why I'm always amazed at how petulant people can be on the Internet. We were drafting at the end of round 1, trading back is the smartest thing you can do. We've got 6 of the next 90 picks, which is great considering how many holes we still need to fill.

ThirtyDegrees
04-26-2012, 08:59 PM
Are you high? Do you even know what the **** you are saying? What do you mean replacing Manning with Tebow, it was the other way around. These are the Broncos, not the Jets, do you even follow this team?

Obvious typo is obvious. It's midnight where I live, in civilization.

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2012, 09:00 PM
I look at more just with Pats deal....

Look at what Minn and Balt did.

Balt goes from 29 to 35 and gets 98. We go from 25 to 31 and get 126. It isnt exactly the same but a relatively comparable jump. 126 vs 98 is almost a full round delta.

Yep...it was brainless move on our part...moves that even a manager would get hammered over. You don't lose draft trade value when your building through the draft. Even if the chart is incorrect, the ratios are not off by 82 points. The first move back was good...but the 2nd was ridiculously stupid.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 09:02 PM
Obvious typo is obvious. It's midnight where I live, in civilization.

Well if only they hadn't replaced McDaniels with Shanahan...



NURRRRR LOOK AT YOU YOU MADE A MISTAKE.



/gangrape

Taco John
04-26-2012, 09:04 PM
Yep...it was brainless move on our part...moves that even a manager would get hammered over. You don't lose draft trade value when your building through the draft. Even if the chart is incorrect, the ratios are not off by 82 points. The first move back was good...but the 2nd was ridiculously stupid.

We haven't drafted a player yet. How can anybody know if the moves are good or bad until we see what they result in?

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 09:10 PM
LOL

What are you talking about? Of course not. John Elway is the top dog - Bowlen isn't hiring someone for Elway to answer to.

Not from where am I'm sitting. All I see is a team that has failed to shore up either line, while going all-in on a QB well past his prime, in the process dumping the most exciting player (developing player admittedly, but the point remains) to wear a Broncos uniform since...well since Elway. As far as I can tell this team is on a trajectory so steeply downward that they are probably going to make crater when they finally land.

Play2win
04-26-2012, 09:10 PM
I would like to see how the draft pans out, what net results we get, before hammering about how bad a trade was, way before we actually really knew what it got us in return.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 09:12 PM
We haven't drafted a player yet. How can anybody know if the moves are good or bad until we see what they result in?

Because pick value is in no way connected with the actual players selected. I really don't get why people don't get this. The 6th round pick used to select Terrell Davis wasn't worth a 1st rounder simply because TD was the player selected with it. That's not how it works.

Taco John
04-26-2012, 09:14 PM
Not from where am I'm sitting. All I see is a team that has failed to shore up either line, while going all-in on a QB well past his prime, in the process dumping the most exciting player (developing player admittedly, but the point remains) to wear a Broncos uniform since...well since Elway. As far as I can tell this team is on a trajectory so steeply downward that they are probably going to make crater when they finally land.



LOL

We haven't even drafted a single player yet, and all you see is a team that has failed to shore up either line, and a QB who can't play anymore.

You're a real charm...

This team has done nothing but improve since Elway became the top dog. We haven't even drafted a single player in this draft yet, and people like you are flapping their arms about value charts that mean nothing past the top 15 because they can't account for year to year draft depth.

Taco John
04-26-2012, 09:15 PM
Because pick value is in no way connected with the actual players selected.

"pick value" means absolutely nothing past the top 10-15 picks. Zero. It's a chart for nerds - for geeks like us - not for real NFL application. Pick value charts have as much meaning to NFL execs as 25 sided dice. Those charts are fun for the amateurs, but mean nothing to the pros.

colonelbeef
04-26-2012, 09:16 PM
Xanders is a lap dog, he spits out stats and figures, nothing more. Elway and Fox are making the personnel decisions.

If anybody should go, it should be Ellis. He was instrumental in bringing McFailure to Denver and was behind all of the trades mentioned in the first post. He might be a great guy, but he definitely does not deserve to be making decisions for an NFL team in any manner.

Elway has done a great job so far, nice to see an adult back in charge

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 09:18 PM
"pick value" means absolutely nothing past the top 10-15 picks. Zero. It's a chart for nerds - for geeks like us - not for real NFL application. Pick value charts have as much meaning to NFL execs as 25 sided dice. Those charts are fun for the amateurs, but mean nothing to the pros.

Yet the Ravens got the appropriate "nerd" value, and we categorically didn't. Please explain how that works, and how it reflects well on EFX.

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2012, 09:19 PM
"pick value" means absolutely nothing past the top 10-15 picks. Zero. It's a chart for nerds - for geeks like us - not for real NFL application. Pick value charts have as much meaning to NFL execs as 25 sided dice. Those charts are fun for the amateurs, but mean nothing to the pros.

There were to be many more traded picks in the late 1st due to the smaller talent gap than expense gap with the new rookie wage scale system. This doesn't translate to losing out on an added 4th - 5th round pick or two sixth rounders. Elway should know best that 6th rounders are precious in Denver.

In round 1 of the NFL draft From 2001 to 2010 there have been 20 recorded trades from pick 6 to 15; 46 trades between picks 16-30...that is 66 picks from which that chart has been negogiated from. I'd say it has some fractional relevancy.

cmhargrove
04-26-2012, 09:19 PM
Obvious typo is obvious. It's midnight where I live, in civilization.

In civilization, you're still a dumb****. Where I live, if we do make mistakes, we apologize and admit it. Where you are, I guess you blame everyone else. Maybe I should strive to be more civilized like you, because you are obviously brilliant.

CEH
04-26-2012, 09:23 PM
When Elway went on after the draft and said they got multiple calls and they came away with a high 4th and Balt got a much better deal and pick in front of us twice.

Chart be damned Hard to explain this as nothing other than getting played.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 09:25 PM
We haven't drafted a player yet. How can anybody know if the moves are good or bad until we see what they result in?

Raiders haven't drafted a player yet, either. How will we EVER know??

BroncoInferno
04-26-2012, 09:27 PM
Raiders haven't drafted a player yet, either. How will we EVER know??

Stupid take. Let's wait and see who we draft, eh? Like I said, many here would have been thrilled with Reyes, Worthy, Fleener, etc. @ #25. We may well get one of those players AFTER moving down to # 36.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 09:27 PM
LOL

We haven't even drafted a single player yet, and all you see is a team that has failed to shore up either line, and a QB who can't play anymore.

You're a real charm...

This team has done nothing but improve since Elway became the top dog. We haven't even drafted a single player in this draft yet, and people like you are flapping their arms about value charts that mean nothing past the top 15 because they can't account for year to year draft depth.

You think this is just about this draft? Not even close.

We let Bunkley, our only decent DT walk.

We overpaid Mays by a factor of four.

We traded away our two top receivers during McD's last season for what amounted to a 5th rounder.

We traded a young, developing QB, who had just led us to an improbable playoff win in his first year starting a significant amount, for a 4th rounder.

We drafted a guard to play tackle.

We drafted a safety and linebacker in the 2nd and 3rd rounds to sit on the bench while seriously sub-par players stayed on the field.

We massively overpaid for an old and injured Peyton Manning.

We stuck with Kyle "I can't win a game to save my life" Orton for way too long when we couldn't manage a simple trade to get rid of the bum.

The list goes on and on.


Von Miller is the only thing they've really done right as far as I'm concerned since Elway took over, and in my eyes that really doesn't amount to a net improvement.

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2012, 09:29 PM
Raiders haven't drafted a player yet, either. How will we EVER know??

They essentially traded Carson Palmer for Dre Kirkpatrick (the best run stopping cb for years to come)....I think we'll have no problems continuing to run through them for years to come...Hilarious!

BroncoInferno
04-26-2012, 09:29 PM
You think this is just about this draft? Not even close.

We let Bunkley, our only decent DT walk.

We overpaid Mays by a factor of four.

We traded away our two top receivers during McD's last season for what amounted to a 5th rounder.

We traded a young, developing QB, who had just led us to an improbable playoff win in his first year starting a significant amount, for a 4th rounder.

We drafted a guard to play tackle.

We drafted a safety and linebacker in the 2nd and 3rd rounds to sit on the bench while seriously sub-par players stayed on the field.

We massively overpaid for an old and injured Peyton Manning.

We stuck with Kyle "I can't win a game to save my life" Orton for way too long when we couldn't manage a simple trade to get rid of the bum.

The list goes on and on.


Von Miller is the only thing they've really done right as far as I'm concerned since Elway took over, and in my eyes that really doesn't amount to a net improvement.

Goddamn, you are stupid.

colonelbeef
04-26-2012, 09:29 PM
You think this is just about this draft? Not even close.

We let Bunkley, our only decent DT walk.

We overpaid Mays by a factor of four.

We traded away our two top receivers during McD's last season for what amounted to a 5th rounder.

We traded a young, developing QB, who had just led us to an improbable playoff win in his first year starting a significant amount, for a 4th rounder.

We drafted a guard to play tackle.

We drafted a safety and linebacker in the 2nd and 3rd rounds to sit on the bench while seriously sub-par players stayed on the field.

We massively overpaid for an old and injured Peyton Manning.

We stuck with Kyle "I can't win a game to save my life" Orton for way too long when we couldn't manage a simple trade to get rid of the bum.

The list goes on and on.


Von Miller is the only thing they've really done right as far as I'm concerned since Elway took over, and in my eyes that really doesn't amount to a net improvement.

Remember your silly bitching when the Broncos win 11 games this year.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 09:33 PM
Stupid take. Let's wait and see who we draft, eh? Like I said, many here would have been thrilled with Reyes, Worthy, Fleener, etc. @ #25. We may well get one of those players AFTER moving down to # 36.

Yes but those takes were made before the draft, before seeing how the first round shook out. Hightower was taken at our original pick. Two running backs were taken before our first actual pick.

It's not a stupid take at all.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 09:37 PM
Remember your silly b****ing when the Broncos win 11 games this year.

Assuming it happens (and honestly I doubt it will looking at how bad our roster is overall, not to mention our brutal schedule), it will only be a short-term surge due to Manning still having something in the tank. It won't change that getting rid of Tebow before he was allowed to develop, and EFX apparently having very little personnel acumen, the future looks very bleak.

scorpio
04-26-2012, 09:43 PM
Assuming it happens (and honestly I doubt it will looking at how bad our roster is overall, not to mention our brutal schedule), it will only be a short-term surge due to Manning still having something in the tank. It won't change that getting rid of Tebow before he was allowed to develop, and EFX apparently having very little personnel acumen, the future looks very bleak.

Your avatar really bothers me.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 09:45 PM
Your avatar really bothers me.

I couldn't care less.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 09:50 PM
Assuming it happens (and honestly I doubt it will looking at how bad our roster is overall, not to mention our brutal schedule), it will only be a short-term surge due to Manning still having something in the tank. It won't change that getting rid of Tebow before he was allowed to develop, and EFX apparently having very little personnel acumen, the future looks very bleak.

If the Broncos win 11 games this year, I will eat my words, and have no problem doing so.

As of right now, this team looks much worse than last year, even with Manning and his 20% of the payroll at QB.

scorpio
04-26-2012, 09:57 PM
I couldn't care less.

It just makes you look like even more of a silly bitch is all.

colonelbeef
04-26-2012, 10:00 PM
Assuming it happens (and honestly I doubt it will looking at how bad our roster is overall, not to mention our brutal schedule), it will only be a short-term surge due to Manning still having something in the tank. It won't change that getting rid of Tebow before he was allowed to develop, and EFX apparently having very little personnel acumen, the future looks very bleak.


Tebow is a terrible QB. The fact that they were only able to get a 4th for him speaks volumes about his perception across the NFL.

Elway did the only thing he could do in order to get rid of the Tebow quandary- he signed a future HOF QB to replace him. It was the right move on multiple levels.

Now we get 3-4 years of a motivated Peyton Manning before we move on to whomever they draft in the next few years. After the McDaniels ****up, it was the only solution, and a masterful one at that.

Oh, and in the meantime, the Broncos are relevant again.

Jason7730
04-26-2012, 10:04 PM
^ "This team looks much worse than last year, even with Manning". Why wait till next year to root for the jets or another team?

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:05 PM
It just makes you look like even more of a silly b**** is all.

Well on this special day in Broncos history I think maybe it is time to change it. Here's to you scorpio!

Requiem
04-26-2012, 10:06 PM
It just makes you look like even more of a silly b**** is all.

Well, when you picture him what do you see? I see a big, fat man with tator tot tits wearing a Storm Trooper helmet drinking from a Taco Bell cup.

colonelbeef
04-26-2012, 10:06 PM
Manning makes the entire team look better. He makes the kicking game look better. He makes the defense look much better due to his ability to eat up the clock with prolonged drives and far less 3 and outs (Tebow was atrocious at TOP and converting 3rd downs)

Manning makes receivers look better. Watch DT and Decker blossom into a top 10 duo. Tamme was a fantastic pickup, he was Dallas Clark 2.0 prior to the Manning injury. The running game will pick up significantly as teams need to respect the entire field, and Mannings' ability to read coverages and blitzes at the line.

If he's healthy, Peyton Manning is a top 3 QB in the league- and he's motivated. His little brother just won his 2nd superbowl afterall.

Broncos win 11 games this year, get at least 1 home game, and cause trouble in the playoffs.

They need glue players, and picks in the 2-4th rounds will provide that. 3 bonafide starters, maybe a legit star or 2, and the draft is a total success.

Jason7730
04-26-2012, 10:06 PM
Tebow is a terrible QB. The fact that they were only able to get a 4th for him speaks volumes about his perception across the NFL.

Elway did the only thing he could do in order to get rid of the Tebow quandary- he signed a future HOF QB to replace him. It was the right move on multiple levels.

Now we get 3-4 years of a motivated Peyton Manning before we move on to whomever they draft in the next few years. After the McDaniels ****up, it was the only solution, and a masterful one at that.

Oh, and in the meantime, the Broncos are relevant again.

Ahmen! :strong:

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:07 PM
Tebow is a terrible QB. The fact that they were only able to get a 4th for him speaks volumes about his perception across the NFL.

Elway did the only thing he could do in order to get rid of the Tebow quandary- he signed a future HOF QB to replace him. It was the right move on multiple levels.

Now we get 3-4 years of a motivated Peyton Manning before we move on to whomever they draft in the next few years. After the McDaniels ****up, it was the only solution, and a masterful one at that.

Oh, and in the meantime, the Broncos are relevant again.

You like most on this board don't get it, and I'm over trying to explain it. It's like trying to explain the theory of relativity to a monkey, only harder...

houghtam
04-26-2012, 10:07 PM
^ "This team looks much worse than last year, even with Manning". Why wait till next year to root for the jets or another team?

Translation:

Rawr if you don't like the moves they make go root for another team rawr.

Real translation:

I have no ****ing clue what I'm talking about so I'll just spew nonsense.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 10:07 PM
Tebow is a terrible QB. The fact that they were only able to get a 4th for him speaks volumes about his perception across the NFL.

Elway did the only thing he could do in order to get rid of the Tebow quandary- he signed a future HOF QB to replace him. It was the right move on multiple levels.

Now we get 3-4 years of a motivated Peyton Manning before we move on to whomever they draft in the next few years. After the McDaniels ****up, it was the only solution, and a masterful one at that.

Oh, and in the meantime, the Broncos are relevant again.

We got good value for a punt protector.

Flex Gunmetal
04-26-2012, 10:08 PM
Assuming it happens (and honestly I doubt it will looking at how bad our roster is overall, not to mention our brutal schedule), it will only be a short-term surge due to Manning still having something in the tank. It won't change that getting rid of Tebow before he was allowed to develop, and EFX apparently having very little personnel acumen, the future looks very bleak.

But where will you be when tebow throws his way out of the NFL and you have no cause to champion?


www.thegangreen.com and get the ***k out, please.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 10:08 PM
Translation:

Rawr if you don't like the moves they make go root for another team rawr.

Real translation:

I have no ****ing clue what I'm talking about so I'll just spew nonsense.

What position are we worse at then last year?

Jekyll15Hyde
04-26-2012, 10:09 PM
You like most on this board don't get it, and I'm over trying to explain it. It's like trying to explain the theory of relativity to a monkey, only harder...

Dude, he is going to be out of the league in 5 years

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:09 PM
Translation:

Rawr if you don't like the moves they make go root for another team rawr.

Real translation:

I have no ****ing clue what I'm talking about so I'll just spew nonsense.

This sums up most of the sheep on this board as far as I can tell.

"Elway is the greatest evaarr at all thingz, and if U don't like it go root for da Jetz!!1!!!11!!"

houghtam
04-26-2012, 10:11 PM
What position are we worse at then last year?

DT. LB. CB. OL. RB.

McDman
04-26-2012, 10:11 PM
Well I guess it's official, Ag has taken over Jhizz' spot to hate literally everything the front office does.

Jason7730
04-26-2012, 10:11 PM
We get a hall of fame lock at QB and we are far worse off? Translation: You are a whiney ass who should probably change buses.

colonelbeef
04-26-2012, 10:12 PM
You like most on this board don't get it, and I'm over trying to explain it. It's like trying to explain the theory of relativity to a monkey, only harder...

Says the guy who thought Josh McDaniels was a good HC and made good personnel decisions, haha

::)

McDman
04-26-2012, 10:14 PM
DT. LB. CB. OL. RB.

Dt, yes. But seriously, who would have been happy paying Bunkley what the Saints paid him?

LB? No, same crew and Von should get better.

CB? Not at all. Got rid of Goodman and brought I a younger Porter. Plus, Harris has a year under his belt. How are we worse?

Ol. No. Kuper will be rehabbed by the start of the year and our young guys will have one more year of experience. How is that worse?

Rb. No. Same crew plus whoever we draft.

Fail.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:14 PM
Says the guy who thought Josh McDaniels was a good HC and made good personnel decisions, haha

::)

LOL when have I ever said that? The most I've eve said is that not all of his moves were terrible, but there's no way in hell I ever said he was a good head coach. Way to just make things up. :thumbsup:

Taco John
04-26-2012, 10:14 PM
You think this is just about this draft? Not even close.

We let Bunkley, our only decent DT walk.

We overpaid Mays by a factor of four.

We traded away our two top receivers during McD's last season for what amounted to a 5th rounder.

We traded a young, developing QB, who had just led us to an improbable playoff win in his first year starting a significant amount, for a 4th rounder.

We drafted a guard to play tackle.

We drafted a safety and linebacker in the 2nd and 3rd rounds to sit on the bench while seriously sub-par players stayed on the field.

We massively overpaid for an old and injured Peyton Manning.

We stuck with Kyle "I can't win a game to save my life" Orton for way too long when we couldn't manage a simple trade to get rid of the bum.

The list goes on and on.


Von Miller is the only thing they've really done right as far as I'm concerned since Elway took over, and in my eyes that really doesn't amount to a net improvement.

Most of this is stuff that either couldn't have been prevented, needed to be done, or isn't even a problem whatsoever. Your hyperventilating probably bothers some people, but it just makes me laugh. At you.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 10:15 PM
DT. LB. CB. OL. RB.

Hilarious! Porter is better then Goodman so CB is a fail. We are the same at RB, OL so that is a fail. DT maybe but, Bunkley wasn't that good anyways. The improvement at QB and TE is much higher then the lose of ****ing Bunkley. Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious! Hilarious!Hilarious!

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:15 PM
We get a hall of fame lock at QB and we are far worse off? Translation: You are a whiney ass who should probably change buses.

I love how people act like we got Manning from 2005 or something. The very epitome of delusion right there...

Requiem
04-26-2012, 10:15 PM
Well, give Amegmoop some credit, he is supporting local Colorado music in a desperate attempt to be witty. What a homo.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 10:16 PM
Dt, yes. But seriously, who would have been happy paying Bunkley what the Saints paid him?

LB? No, same crew and Von should get better.

CB? Not at all. Got rid of Goodman and brought I a younger Porter. Plus, Harris has a year under his belt. How are we worse?

Ol. No. Kuper will be rehabbed by the start of the year and our young guys will have one more year of experience. How is that worse?

Rb. No. Same crew plus whoever we draft.

Fail.

100% this :strong:

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:16 PM
Most of this is stuff that either couldn't have been prevented, needed to be done, or isn't even a problem whatsoever. Your hyperventilating probably bothers some people, but it just makes me laugh. At you.

That's cool. I find myself going from aggravation to amusement myself. All the "true believers" on this site really are kind of funny in a sad way I have to admit.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 10:17 PM
Hilarious! Porter is better then Goodman so CB is a fail. We are the same at RB, OL so that is a fail. DT maybe but, Bunkley wasn't that good anyways. The improvement at QB and TE is much higher then the lose of ****ing Bunkley. Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious! Hilarious!Hilarious!

So staying the same when other teams are improving is improving?

Requiem
04-26-2012, 10:18 PM
That's cool. I find myself going from aggravation to amusement myself. All the "true believers" on this site really are kind of funny in a sad way I have to admit.

The only thing sad here is that you are a 37 year old virgin.

http://www.troll.me/images/obv/seriously-bro-troll-harder-thumb.jpg

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:18 PM
Well, give Amegmoop some credit, he is supporting local Colorado music in a desperate attempt to be witty. What a homo.

Please tell me you are twelve. That would be the only understandable explanation for your constant homophobia and the crap you've been spamming in my rep box.

McDman
04-26-2012, 10:19 PM
That's cool. I find myself going from aggravation to amusement myself. All the "true believers" on this site really are kind of funny in a sad way I have to admit.

Yes, you're so enlightened.

Requiem
04-26-2012, 10:20 PM
Please tell me you are twelve. That would be the only understandable explanation for your constant homophobia and the crap you've been spamming in my rep box.

No, I'm 25. How about you, sexy?

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:21 PM
No, I'm 25.

That's just sad...

Requiem
04-26-2012, 10:22 PM
That's just sad...

Well, I'm hoping you are younger than me, because if you aren't that would be sad.

colonelbeef
04-26-2012, 10:23 PM
LOL when have I ever said that? The most I've eve said is that not all of his moves were terrible, but there's no way in hell I ever said he was a good head coach. Way to just make things up. :thumbsup:

I remember you ripping Shanahan while giving McDaniels the benefit of the doubt- beyond that I may have you confused with someone else. I took a long leave of absence from this board over the last year or so. If it wasn't you, my mistake.

Heyneck
04-26-2012, 10:23 PM
Come on?! What's all this fire Xanders crap?! We all know he is pizza boy/coffee run guy! The big decision come from Elway, Fox and board set by the scouts. Xanders should have maybe instigated another team into giving us more... but in all truth... the FO has aced it. The same talent that many expected us to pick at 25 are at our reach at 36. We have a high 4th that could be used as ammo to get 2 great players in the next 15 picks. The FO has aced it!!! End of story!!! Stop bitching about it!!!

scorpio
04-26-2012, 10:24 PM
Well on this special day in Broncos history I think maybe it is time to change it. Here's to you scorpio!

Your way of showing how little you care?

Taco John
04-26-2012, 10:24 PM
That's cool. I find myself going from aggravation to amusement myself. All the "true believers" on this site really are kind of funny in a sad way I have to admit.


I don't know about "true believers," but what I do know about are facts. The fact is that this team has done nothing but improve since Elway took the top leadership role. The losers mentality that Bowlen, Ellis, and McDaniels installed into the locker room has been replaced with a "win now" attitude. The "me first" players have been shipped out of town for whatever we could get for them, and we have a veteran coaching staff, with a HOF quarterback who has something to prove. For anybody to be looking at this situation and see the glass half-empty, all I can say is you must be a new fan because nobody who was here for the McDaniels era should be looking at what we have now with anything but relief. Welcome to the Broncos fan base. Do more listening and less talking.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 10:25 PM
So staying the same when other teams are improving is improving?

Like who the Ravens? Steelers? Bengals? Houston? Chargers? Chiefs? Raiders? What AFC team was making so many moves? The Pats made the most and really how are they that much better? They lost two DE's with 10 plus sacks. A starting LT. A RB that rushed for 11 TDs. Awesome they added two rookies that could be good and a ton of WR's like they had a problem passing the ball.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:26 PM
Well, I'm hoping you are younger than me, because if you aren't that would be sad.

When I start calling people gay as if it's a bad thing and start telling people they have never had sex for some unknown reason (which is an insult technique I vaguely recall from High School), you'll have a point. All I do is tell stupid people when they are being stupid. Like you, pretty much all the time.

I'm 32 by the way.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:28 PM
I don't know about "true believers," but what I do know about are facts. The fact is that this team has done nothing but improve since Elway took the top leadership role. The losers mentality that Bowlen, Ellis, and McDaniels installed into the locker room has been replaced with a "win now" attitude. The "me first" players have been shipped out of town for whatever we could get for them, and we have a veteran coaching staff, with a HOF quarterback who has something to prove. For anybody to be looking at this situation and see the glass half-empty, all I can say is you must be a new fan because nobody who was here for the McDaniels era should be looking at what we have now with anything but relief. Welcome to the Broncos fan base. Do more listening and less talking.

I'm far from a new fan (the first Broncos game I remember watching was in 1986), and the culture of this team is so far from what it used to be when we were one of the premiere franchises, that it's sickening to me. Reading your post tells me you are definitely a "true believer", but "true believers" never really see themselves that way.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:30 PM
Your way of showing how little you care?

Sure.

Really it was time for a change, and your post reminded me of as much.

BroncoBeavis
04-26-2012, 10:30 PM
Dt, yes. But seriously, who would have been happy paying Bunkley what the Saints paid him?

LB? No, same crew and Von should get better.

CB? Not at all. Got rid of Goodman and brought I a younger Porter. Plus, Harris has a year under his belt. How are we worse?

Ol. No. Kuper will be rehabbed by the start of the year and our young guys will have one more year of experience. How is that worse?

Rb. No. Same crew plus whoever we draft.

Fail.

To be fair we could still have bunk and now hightower and our run d could've really taken a step up.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:31 PM
I remember you ripping Shanahan while giving McDaniels the benefit of the doubt- beyond that I may have you confused with someone else. I took a long leave of absence from this board over the last year or so. If it wasn't you, my mistake.

Look at my join date. During the McD debacle I was actually on Broncomania.

Flex Gunmetal
04-26-2012, 10:31 PM
This sums up most of the sheep on this board as far as I can tell.

"Elway is the greatest evaarr at all thingz, and if U don't like it go root for da Jetz!!1!!!11!!"

Many of us have loyalty to and patience for the greatest Bronco in history.
I understand your position since you were likely too young to ever see him play live.
edit: despite your bullsht claims.

McDman
04-26-2012, 10:32 PM
To be fair we could still have bunk and now hightower and our run d could've really taken a step up.

I agree. We could have Bunkley but really, not many people would be happy had we given him that contract. I was all for Hightower but apparently the FO didn't have him on their board. Hpefully that means Irving is the future Mike.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 10:33 PM
Many of us have loyalty to and patience for the greatest Bronco in history.
I understand your position since you were likely too young to ever see him play live.
edit: despite your bullsht claims.

His ability to play has nothing to do with his ability to GM.

Elway is still my favorite Bronco player ever.

Taco John
04-26-2012, 10:33 PM
I'm far from a new fan (the first Broncos game I remember watching was in 1986), and the culture of this team is so far from what it used to be when we were one of the premiere franchises, that it's sickening to me. Reading your post tells me you are definitely a "true believer", but "true believers" never really see themselves that way.

We're closer this year to a Superbowl than we were two years ago. If that makes me a true believer, so be it. I like the direction this team is going in, and am looking forward to every game this season. But more than that, right now, I'm looking forward to seeing how the draft plan unfolds before making any judgments about it.

gunns
04-26-2012, 10:35 PM
This wasn't my last straw. Five games of Orton starting to begin the season was my last straw. I have zero faith in EFX at this point. Zero.

And this means zero to me. You've made it quite clear how you feel about Elway. And this after a season in which he did absolutely nothing but attempt to destroy the team, yet it went to the playoffs and actually won one. But then again that had nada to do with Elway or the team he tried to put together out of a disasterous mess, only Tebow. How naive. If that was your last straw, why are you still here? To bless us with your hate?

As far as Xanders, the OP looks terribly suspicious to me. I was always under the impression the majority of those were McDaniels moves and I'm sure that's a little closer to the actual truth. And that's why we should get rid of Xanders. Except for the pizza, he's worthless.

BroncoBeavis
04-26-2012, 10:36 PM
I agree. We could have Bunkley but really, not many people would be happy had we given him that contract. I was all for Hightower but apparently the FO didn't have him on their board. Hpefully that means Irving is the future Mike.

It's the Mays deal that makes not paying bunk look so dumb. Especially now that we couldda had Hightower.

Requiem
04-26-2012, 10:37 PM
When I start calling people gay as if it's a bad thing and start telling people they have never had sex for some unknown reason (which is an insult technique I vaguely recall from High School), you'll have a point. All I do is tell stupid people when they are being stupid. Like you, pretty much all the time.

I'm 32 by the way.

Haha, 32. What a loser.

Taco John
04-26-2012, 10:38 PM
His ability to play has nothing to do with his ability to GM.

His ability to GM pretty well stands on its own at this point, and despite a short tenure, there is quite a bit of success to point to:


-Re-signing Champ Bailey
-Hiring John Fox & Dennis Allen
-Drafting Von Miller
-Signing Willis McGahee
-Carrying enough cap room from 2011 to 2012 to:
-Lure Peyton Manning, and thus freeing the franchise to:
-Move Tim Tebow
-Hiring Jack Del Rio
-Changing the atmosphere from hoping for playoffs to expecting Superbowls

Say what you will about Elway's "qualifications," but his track record shows that he's handing the position just fine.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:39 PM
Many of us have loyalty to and patience for the greatest Bronco in history.
I understand your position since you were likely too young to ever see him play live.
edit: despite your bullsht claims.

Elway is my all-time second favorite Bronco player after Terrell Davis. But unlike the most of the rest of you, that has nothing to do with what I think of him as a person or a football executive. Your mentality is not unlike someone hiring a person to babysit their kids because that person did a really good job mowing their lawn. It is utterly illogical, and based purely on nothing more than an emotional attachment to a completely unrelated event.

McDman
04-26-2012, 10:40 PM
It's the Mays deal that makes not paying bunk look so dumb. Especially now that we couldda had Hightower.

I agree. Not sure why they did that.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 10:43 PM
I agree. Not sure why they did that.

Because Bunk only plays 40% of the time.

gunns
04-26-2012, 10:43 PM
We're closer this year to a Superbowl than we were two years ago. If that makes me a true believer, so be it. I like the direction this team is going in, and am looking forward to every game this season. But more than that, right now, I'm looking forward to seeing how the draft plan unfolds before making any judgments about it.

No ****. One round and we've failed. People usually tweak after a pick but now we're criticizing and predicting failure before a pick. Unbelievable.

Flex Gunmetal
04-26-2012, 10:46 PM
His ability to play has nothing to do with his ability to GM.

Elway is still my favorite Bronco player ever.

Sure.

But to slight him because Tebow is gone for a 4th (when Mcdaniels reached a number of rounds to acquire him), and now manning is here, is disloyalty and impatience. Especially when the team has done nothing but improve since elway took his current position.


I wouldn't call myself a company man, but I damn sure will wait for the team to get worse before I bitch about Elways effort.
My point was homeboy just wants to go against the grain and complain all the time. Call it a need to be noticed or garner attention, but his schtick is old and tired.

And lol@Ag being 32, never woulda guessed a day over 19. Have you ever played a down of competitive football, ag?

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:47 PM
His ability to GM pretty well stands on its own at this point, and despite a short tenure, there is quite a bit of success to point to:


-Re-signing Champ Bailey
-Hiring John Fox & Dennis Allen
-Drafting Von Miller
-Signing Willis McGahee
-Carrying enough cap room from 2011 to 2012 to:
-Lure Peyton Manning, and thus freeing the franchise to:
-Move Tim Tebow
-Hiring Jack Del Rio
-Changing the atmosphere from hoping for playoffs to expecting Superbowls

Say what you will about Elway's "qualifications," but his track record shows that he's handing the position just fine.

-Failing to trade Orton before the 2011 season.
-Failing to resign our only decent DT.
-Failing to draft much else other than Von Miller.
-Failing to spend even close to the cap in 2011, and failing to using the rolled over surplus in 2012.
-Overpaying an old Peyton Manning coming off a very serious injury that caused nerve damage.
-Paying a MLB who should never have become a starter in the first place starter money.
-Trading Tim Tebow before he had an honest chance to develop (never really did get a full offseason with any system) right after he led the team to a playoff win.
-Hiring John Fox after a 2-14 season.
-Changing the atmosphere to that of complete and total dishonesty.

It's amazing how different people can look at the same thing and see something totally different...

Flex Gunmetal
04-26-2012, 10:49 PM
But unlike the most of the rest of you, that has nothing to do with what I think of him as a person or a football executive. Your mentality is not unlike someone hiring a person to babysit their kids because that person did a really good job mowing their lawn. It is utterly illogical, and based purely on nothing more than an emotional attachment to a completely unrelated event.

Except football is football and landscaping is childcare, right?

Do you even own any broncos gear?

gunns
04-26-2012, 10:50 PM
I'm far from a new fan (the first Broncos game I remember watching was in 1986), and the culture of this team is so far from what it used to be when we were one of the premiere franchises, that it's sickening to me. Reading your post tells me you are definitely a "true believer", but "true believers" never really see themselves that way.

1986. So you are under the impression that the Broncos have always been a premiere franchise. No dude, it's when you can hang in the bad times, and stay loyal, that when you are a true fan. No team stays a premiere franchise, they all have their lows. If I hadn't been a true believer in the 70's I would have never reaped the benefits of the 80s and 90s. Elway hasn't been perfect in his 1st year but he's a hell of lot better than anything we've had in the 2000's. And he appears to learn from his mistakes.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:51 PM
It's the Mays deal that makes not paying bunk look so dumb. Especially now that we couldda had Hightower.

Yep.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:54 PM
1986. So you are under the impression that the Broncos have always been a premiere franchise. No dude, it's when you can hang in the bad times, and stay loyal, that when you are a true fan. No team stays a premiere franchise, they all have their lows. If I hadn't been a true believer in the 70's I would have never reaped the benefits of the 80s and 90s. Elway hasn't been perfect in his 1st year but he's a hell of lot better than anything we've had in the 2000's. And he appears to learn from his mistakes.

I'm loyal to the Broncos franchise (annoyingly so honestly). The people in charge right now not so much. I have literally disliked 90% of what EFX has done since taking over, and that's my prerogative as a fan.

Taco John
04-26-2012, 10:56 PM
-Failing to trade Orton before the 2011 season.
-Failing to resign our only decent DT.
-Failing to draft much else other than Von Miller.
-Failing to spend even close to the cap in 2011, and failing to using the rolled over surplus in 2012.
-Overpaying an old Peyton Manning coming off a very serious injury that caused nerve damage.
-Paying a MLB who should never have become a starter in the first place starter money.
-Trading Tim Tebow before he had an honest chance to develop (never really did get a full offseason with any system) right after he led the team to a playoff win.
-Hiring John Fox after a 2-14 season.
-Changing the atmosphere to that of complete and total dishonesty.

It's amazing how different people can look at the same thing and see something totally different...

I'm never amazed at when people who have bad attitudes turn out to be big pessimists.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 10:56 PM
We're closer this year to a Superbowl than we were two years ago. If that makes me a true believer, so be it. I like the direction this team is going in, and am looking forward to every game this season. But more than that, right now, I'm looking forward to seeing how the draft plan unfolds before making any judgments about it.

We aren't even remotely close to a Super Bowl. Manning is fool's gold. We couldn't possibly perceive the current state of this franchise more differently.

McDman
04-26-2012, 10:57 PM
Because Bunk only plays 40% of the time.

No. I'm not sure why they gave Mays so much money.

gunns
04-26-2012, 10:58 PM
I'm loyal to the Broncos franchise (annoyingly so honestly). The people in charge right now not so much. I have literally disliked 90% of what EFX has done since taking over, and that's my prerogative as a fan.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be criticism and yes you have a right to your opinion. It just seems you have put blinders on and can't see anything beyond Tebow. There is no way you could tell me or convince me 90% of this criticism by you doesn't have to do with Tebow. Insignificant.

Flex Gunmetal
04-26-2012, 10:58 PM
I'm never amazed at when people who have bad attitudes turn out to be big pessimists.

It's clamoring for attention. He can't just be a regular contributing poster, gotta stand out from the crowd.

A peek in his closet and you'll find dated Maralyn Manson shirts and trenchcoats.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 10:59 PM
I'm never amazed at when people who have bad attitudes turn out to be big pessimists.

Probably good a time as any to mention that a google search for "gutless drunk" still brings up the Orangemane as the first result.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 11:01 PM
I'm not saying there shouldn't be criticism and yes you have a right to your opinion. It just seems you have put blinders on and can't see anything beyond Tebow. There is no way you could tell me or convince me 90% of this criticism by you doesn't have to do with Tebow. Insignificant.

Actually a lot of my criticism of EFX has nothing to do with Tebow. The Tebow element is not insignificant, and the way EFX and this fan base treated the kid is disgraceful in my eyes, but all the other things that they've done that I say that I hate I really do hate. The Tebow issue is just part of it.

McDman
04-26-2012, 11:12 PM
-Failing to trade Orton before the 2011 season.what would we have gotten for him? Basically nothing. Plus, he came into camp looking much better than an unprepared Tebow. They planned on Tebow starting and he looked terrible when he came in.
-Failing to resign our only decent DT. Again, there would have been a riot had we outbid the Saints for Bunkley. He was good but he was vastly overpaid.
-Failing to draft much else other than Von Miller. it is the second year. If you are already calling it a failure just go ahead and get a hater tatoo on your forehead. Carter contributed greatly and will start this year. Franklin started every game and will only get better. Green looked good for a rookie. Thomas was hurt but has potential. It's too early to tell on Moore.
-Failing to spend even close to the cap in 2011, and failing to using the rolled over surplus in 2012. Like they said, they're not going to just go spend money to spend it.
-Overpaying an old Peyton Manning coming off a very serious injury that caused nerve damage. I will, so will many of the NFL owners, take an old Manning over Tebow anyday.
-Paying a MLB who should never have become a starter in the first place starter money. bad move.
-Trading Tim Tebow before he had an honest chance to develop (never really did get a full offseason with any system) right after he led the team to a playoff win. it's clear by the compensation we received what every other NFL team thought of him. He is a distraction and he is not very good.
-Hiring John Fox after a 2-14 season.He is a good coach who would have been hired elsewhere. Coaches get fired. It is the name of the game. Yes, he went 2-14. He also went to a Super Bowl.
-Changing the atmosphere to that of complete and total dishonesty.you're right, McD just made us all so trusting of him. Literally everyone involved in the NFL lies. Get over it.

It's amazing how different people can look at the same thing and see something totally different....

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 11:18 PM
.

So let me get this straight, I'm a hater for calling the 2011 draft kind of crappy outside Miller, while people who claim Tebow will never be any good, despite showing more flashes in his first year starting than any of the 2011 players not named Von Miller, are perfectly reasonable? Okay...

houghtam
04-26-2012, 11:24 PM
So let me get this straight, I'm a hater for calling the 2011 draft kind of crappy outside Miller, while people who claim Tebow will never be any good, despite showing more flashes in his first year starting than any of the 2011 players not named Von Miller, are perfectly reasonable? Okay...

He has a throwing motion like Randall Cunningham.

He has followers like any backup QB who is better than the QB he is going to replace.

He only helped the team win 8 games, no more.

He looked like **** in a preseason after a lockout with no OTAs.

Do you need any more proof?

colonelbeef
04-27-2012, 08:38 AM
Actually a lot of my criticism of EFX has nothing to do with Tebow. The Tebow element is not insignificant, and the way EFX and this fan base treated the kid is disgraceful in my eyes, but all the other things that they've done that I say that I hate I really do hate. The Tebow issue is just part of it.


Waahhhhh, they way they treated Tebow was disgraceful! Wahhhh!

They don't like him as a QB. They didn't want to have him as a QB. They got rid of him.

This isn't a high school dramedy, it's the NFL- if your team doesn't think you are capable, you're gone, period. Deal with it.

Br0nc0Buster
04-27-2012, 02:43 PM
Browns just took a dump on McCoy, it is the big boy league, it happens

Good thing for Tebow he is not the giant pussy his fanboys are

Rohirrim
04-27-2012, 02:44 PM
If they fired Xanders they wouldn't have anybody to run all that computer stuff.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-27-2012, 02:48 PM
So let me get this straight, I'm a hater for calling the 2011 draft kind of crappy outside Miller, while people who claim Tebow will never be any good, despite showing more flashes in his first year starting than any of the 2011 players not named Von Miller, are perfectly reasonable? Okay...

you are crying about not giving Tebow enough time to develop, yet sealed the fate of the entire 2011 draft?

BroncoBeavis
04-27-2012, 02:50 PM
Waahhhhh, they way they treated Tebow was disgraceful! Wahhhh!

They don't like him as a QB. They didn't want to have him as a QB. They got rid of him.

This isn't a high school dramedy, it's the NFL- if your team doesn't think you are capable, you're gone, period. Deal with it.

So if Tebow turns out to be a pro-bowler and we're sitting here trophyless and playing tiddlywinks with the newest version of Colt McCoy in a couple years, we'll have to conclude EFX is incapable and should be gone.

Deal with it.

Amirite?

Br0nc0Buster
04-27-2012, 02:51 PM
I remember you ripping Shanahan while giving McDaniels the benefit of the doubt- beyond that I may have you confused with someone else. I took a long leave of absence from this board over the last year or so. If it wasn't you, my mistake.

Hes not a fan of this team and wasnt around then, you are thinking of someone else

colonelbeef
04-27-2012, 02:52 PM
So if Tebow turns out to be a pro-bowler and we're sitting here trophyless and playing tiddlywinks with the newest version of Colt McCoy in a couple years, we'll have to conclude EFX is incapable and should be gone.

Deal with it.

Amirite?

If Peyton Manning returns to form, or even a reasonable facsimile, your argument is moot. That is the tradeoff. Tebow for Peyton Manning.

Only Tebow fanboys fail to see how obvious the choice is.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-27-2012, 02:55 PM
So if Tebow turns out to be a pro-bowler and we're sitting here trophyless and playing tiddlywinks with the newest version of Colt McCoy in a couple years, we'll have to conclude EFX is incapable and should be gone.

Deal with it.

Amirite?

outside of his fanbase and Skip Bayless, no one is considering him a starter...they dont pick pro bowlers for punt protection...so far its not looking good that your "if" pans out..

BroncoBeavis
04-27-2012, 02:57 PM
If Peyton Manning returns to form, or even a reasonable facsimile, your argument is moot. That is the tradeoff. Tebow for Peyton Manning.

Only Tebow fanboys fail to see how obvious the choice is.

1. Big If.
2. Two years vs a decade or more is potentially a very substantial trade-down.

Especially if we're talking 2010 Peyton vs say 2005.

lonestar
04-27-2012, 02:57 PM
So if Tebow turns out to be a pro-bowler and we're sitting here trophyless and playing tiddlywinks with the newest version of Colt McCoy in a couple years, we'll have to conclude EFX is incapable and should be gone.

Deal with it.

Amirite?

I liked the kid ..

But once Manning was signed there was NO way he would put up with the side-show that Tebow brings with him..

Nor did Elway ever like the kid, he was Joshes boi and because of that had to go..

We ALL KNOW that when he was put in the game it was to tank the season to suck for luck..They had zero confidence in him to rally the troops and win games, BUT the kid has gonads the size of Montana and leadership skills the size of Alaska..

He raised the TEAM level and they won just enough games to lose out on the luck sweepstakes..

I also think that a few years from now we will be looking for the next FQB and Tebow will be kicking our ass every time we play them..

Requiem
04-27-2012, 02:59 PM
No. I'm not sure why they gave Mays so much money.

If Mays doesn't improve this year, he will probably be axed. He three year deal is really one. As a fellow Bison, I'm rootin' for one of the best players to ever run with the Herd. \m/