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maven
10-16-2011, 05:02 PM
So now with Campbell out for the season, Broncos ship Orton to the Raiders?

RhymesayersDU
10-16-2011, 05:03 PM
They have nothing to trade, do they?

After they traded for Curry, wasn't it reported that they don't have many draft picks this year? Unless we take a player or future pick.

Ray Finkle
10-16-2011, 05:04 PM
Trade him or the lowest ranked DL not named Moss....

maven
10-16-2011, 05:05 PM
They have nothing to trade, do they?

After they traded for Curry, wasn't it reported that they don't have many draft picks this year? Unless we take a player or future pick.

Pick in 2013 could work.

UberBroncoMan
10-16-2011, 05:07 PM
Why not. They'd get someone who knows our O and offensive weakness's by heart and would love nothing more than to beat us every year. Not that it matters at this point.

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:08 PM
Well Al Davis is dead now, so it's not completely unimaginable. But it still seems really far-fetched to me.

Then again, are there really any better options for them? I mean they are looking like a team that could make a run for the division right now, so they need to go for the best option available. Hmm...

Orton in a Raiders uniform does sound perfect to me I've got to be honest. My all-time most hated Bronco going to my all-time most hated team. Perfect.

barryr
10-16-2011, 05:08 PM
The raiders seemingly like big arm QB's who can throw the ball down the field, so that would not fit Orton.

Tim
10-16-2011, 05:09 PM
Orton to Raiders would be awesome but no team is dumb enough to give anything of value for orton, even the raiders.

yerner
10-16-2011, 05:09 PM
Do it.

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:09 PM
Why not. They'd get someone who knows our O and offensive weakness's by heart and would love nothing more than to beat us every year. Not that it matters at this point.

I have absolutely zero fear of Orton beating us. If the Raiders beat us with him on the roster it'd be in spite of him not because of him.

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:10 PM
The raiders seemingly like big arm QB's who can throw the ball down the field, so that would not fit Orton.

Beggars can't be choosers though. What options do they have that are better right now?

LongDongJohnson
10-16-2011, 05:13 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Orton will probably come back and bite us in the ass. Just like he always does.

OrangeSe7en
10-16-2011, 05:14 PM
I'd do it without hesitation.

barryr
10-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Beggars can't be choosers though. What options do they have that are better right now?

A QB who does not know their system and is not exactly playing great is going to help them now?

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Orton will probably come back and bite us in the ass. Just like he always does.

Hilarious!

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:16 PM
A QB who does not know their system and is not exactly playing great is going to help them now?

It's that, Kyle Boler, or Tyrelle Pryor, so...yeah...

barryr
10-16-2011, 05:19 PM
It's that, Kyle Boler, or Tyrelle Pryor, so...yeah...

I would be surprised if the raiders had any interest in Orton other than giving up a 7th round pick so he can hold a clipboard and hope to get a decent compensation pick for him as they let him go next offseason.

lostknight
10-16-2011, 05:21 PM
Raiders put a premium on best of the NFL athletic players, at the cost of skills. I can't think of another team that Kyle fits least then Oakland.

OrangeSe7en
10-16-2011, 05:22 PM
Raiders put a premium on best of the NFL athletic players, at the cost of skills. I can't think of another team that Kyle fits least then Oakland.

Really?! Have you ever seen Ken Stabler run?

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:23 PM
I would be surprised if the raiders had any interest in Orton other than giving up a 7th round pick so he can hold a clipboard and hope to get a decent compensation pick for him as they let him go next offseason.

Again, we are talking about a team that is hoping to make a playoff run. Do you think for a second they are going to roll with Boler or Pryor in that situation? At least Orton has proven he can play at or just below a league average level as a starter. Those two? Not so much...

RhymesayersDU
10-16-2011, 05:23 PM
David Garrard to the white courtesy phone, David Garrard.

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:24 PM
Raiders put a premium on best of the NFL athletic players, at the cost of skills. I can't think of another team that Kyle fits least then Oakland.

They drafted Jaba the Hut at QB, so...yeah... :thumbsup:

oubronco
10-16-2011, 05:24 PM
David Garrard to the white courtesy phone, David Garrard.

Yep

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:25 PM
David Garrard to the white courtesy phone, David Garrard.

Okay, now that's an option they might prefer. And he wouldn't come with a retarded 1 year contract from hell...

vonqkilla
10-16-2011, 05:28 PM
Agree on Garrard, cheaper and better.

DarkHorse
10-16-2011, 05:29 PM
Heh, funny - wife and I just said the same thing

cutthemdown
10-16-2011, 05:30 PM
I think it's going to be Gerrard. He didn't like fish because they ain't going to playoffs, but when Oaktown calls he will go. one yr deal. Mark it down cutthemdown has spoken.

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:32 PM
Agree on Garrard, cheaper and better.

Definitely cheaper. Better? Yeah I don't know about that. He sucks it pretty bad.

bigbucks24
10-16-2011, 05:37 PM
So what do you REALISTICALLY think Orton is worth in a trade to the Big O?

Dr. Broncenstein
10-16-2011, 05:53 PM
Nobody is trading for Orton and his ridiculous salary. That's the kind of money you pay someone who can help your team win some games. Orton at his best might play well enough to not lose. Orton at his recent level of production is arguably the worst quarterback in the league.

Archer81
10-16-2011, 06:07 PM
So trade a QB who needs a strong running game and a solid defense to be successful to a team in division with a strong running game and a solid defense...

I forsee nothing wrong with that at all...

:Broncos:

robbieopperude
10-16-2011, 06:07 PM
Garrard will probably sign for the vet minimum. Nobody is taking Orton's salary on. Now the other option would be for Denver to offer Oakland Brady Quinn. He fits there profile better. If we could get a 6th for him that would be interesting.

I'm not sure he is a better option than Kyle Boller and I honestly like the idea of resigning him in the offseason to be Tebow's backup.

baja
10-16-2011, 06:10 PM
The Raiders beat us physically in the trenches.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-16-2011, 06:11 PM
So trade a QB who needs a strong running game and a solid defense to be successful to a team in division with a strong running game and a solid defense...

I forsee nothing wrong with that at all...

:Broncos:

Orton had all the above last week and still shiat the bed.

broncocalijohn
10-16-2011, 06:20 PM
Nobody is trading for Orton and his ridiculous salary. That's the kind of money you pay someone who can help your team win some games. Orton at his best might play well enough to not lose. Orton at his recent level of production is arguably the worst quarterback in the league.

Raiders have a good running back and a good defense. Orton would be a much better fit than many. While his salary is up there, he is good enough with the surrounding cast to be a possible playoff team. Raiders don't have much time to think about it with 10 games to go. If they want to salvage the season, they get someone like Orton. Would we send him to a division rival? Normally "NO!" but we are not going to go far this season anyways so let them deal with the contract.

broncocalijohn
10-16-2011, 06:21 PM
Orton had all the above last week and still shiat the bed.

He had the defense last week only while he was riding the bench.

OBF1
10-16-2011, 06:28 PM
Somewhere a village is missing it's idiot.

OrangeSe7en
10-16-2011, 06:32 PM
Garrard will probably sign for the vet minimum. Nobody is taking Orton's salary on. Now the other option would be for Denver to offer Oakland Brady Quinn. He fits there profile better. If we could get a 6th for him that would be interesting.

I'm not sure he is a better option than Kyle Boller and I honestly like the idea of resigning him in the offseason to be Tebow's backup.

If the Raiders feel he will better allow them to have a successful season, they might. I think Orton is now only owed like half of his season salary. Besides, if it's to save a season, they might do it. Because the Raiders have looked solid otherwise.

OBF1
10-16-2011, 06:49 PM
Found this on NFL.COM

Raiders quarterback Jason Campbell suffered a broken collarbone in Sunday's 24-17 win over the Cleveland Browns and is likely to miss the rest of the regular season, league sources told NFL Network's Jason La Canfora.

Raiders coach Hue Jackson confirmed the injury during his postgame news conference, but wouldn't confirm how long Campbell would be out.

"I have no idea how long it's going to take. I don't know," Jackson told reporters. "We know he won't be here next week."

Campbell left the game during the second quarter when he landed hard on his right shoulder at the end of a 7-yard run. Campbell was in obvious pain as he walked gingerly off the field with trainers, holding his right arm close to his body. He immediately headed up the stadium tunnel into the locker room.

Campbell started the game 6-of-9 passing for 52 yards. He was replaced by Kyle Boller, who went 8 of 14 passing for 100 yards.

"It’s unfortunate Jason got hurt. I feel for him, I really do," Boller said. "It’s unfortunate it happened. But now it’s my job to lead this offense."

Jackson wouldn't necessarily commit to Boller when asked about the quarterback position going forward, saying he would do whatever gives the team the best chance to win. According to La Canfora, the Raiders might pursue a veteran ahead of Tuesday's trade deadline.

The only other quarterback on Oakland's roster is rookie Terrelle Pryor, who will be activated Monday. Pryor got a one-week roster exemption after serving a five-game suspension to start his career.



Now, If Oakland's front office is simular to ours, I can see the trade being made.... I kept hearing for weeks that Orton gave us the best chance to win, Now oakland is using the same line. I would settle for a 4th round pick and a bag of takis

Bronx33
10-16-2011, 06:51 PM
send the the raiders the sloth i really dont care.

Rolandftw
10-16-2011, 06:52 PM
Raiders still have their 5th and 6th rounders this seasons. Doubt they want to be just left with their first round pick though.

A 2013 pick would be fine though. It's still an asset that can be used to move up for a player the team likes. Oakland's a playoff caliber club, and unless they honestly think Pryor is ready or that Pryor can fill in decently.. doubt they stand pat.

I've always believed that Orton can be a successful QB, with a good line, running game and defense. Think it'd be a perfect fit for him. If he can't succeed in that situation, doubt he could succeed anywhere.

OBF1
10-16-2011, 07:03 PM
Raiders still have their 5th and 6th rounders this seasons. Doubt they want to be just left with their first round pick though.

A 2013 pick would be fine though. It's still an asset that can be used to move up for a player the team likes. Oakland's a playoff caliber club, and unless they honestly think Pryor is ready or that Pryor can fill in decently.. doubt they stand pat.

I've always believed that ANYONE GETTING PAID 9 MILLION A YEAR can be a successful QB, with a good line, running game and defense. Think it'd be a perfect fit for him. If he can't succeed in that situation, doubt he could succeed anywhere.

fixed it for you

Dr. Broncenstein
10-16-2011, 07:06 PM
... doubt he could succeed anywhere.

FTFY

bowtown
10-16-2011, 07:11 PM
http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/amherst/drawing.jpeg

Captain 'Dre
10-16-2011, 07:15 PM
Well Al Davis is dead now, so it's not completely unimaginable. But it still seems really far-fetched to me.

Then again, are there really any better options for them? I mean they are looking like a team that could make a run for the division right now, so they need to go for the best option available. Hmm...

Orton in a Raiders uniform does sound perfect to me I've got to be honest. My all-time most hated Bronco going to my all-time most hated team. Perfect.

Several QBs are out there who would seem to be a better fit for the Raiders, and who wouldn't require compensation in the form of draft picks.

David Garrard comes to mind.

ScottXray
10-16-2011, 07:40 PM
I would be surprised if the raiders had any interest in Orton other than giving up a 7th round pick so he can hold a clipboard and hope to get a decent compensation pick for him as they let him go next offseason.

Nah, Lets trade Brady Quinn to the Raiders for 3rd or 4th In 2013. Its perfect.

At least he LOOKS like a QB , and they get stuck with his escalator if he plays the rest of the year. He's been stuck here for the last 2 years and might actually feel gratitude to us..

Actually the Raiders have a need and we have no plans to use him....Move him and move Breton(?) up to third from the PS. He needs to get more time
anyway, and we can insert him if Tebow doesn't pan out ( rather than putting Orton back in). In for a penny , in for a pound.

montrose
10-16-2011, 07:54 PM
It would be awesome, but I dont see it.

Bronx33
10-16-2011, 07:59 PM
A sloth bomb to the raiders would be ( AWESOME!)

KO5K
10-16-2011, 08:12 PM
According to the Associated Press, Kyle Orton has asked the Broncos to trade him in advance of Tuesday's deadline.

(We'll caution that this item was thrown into an AP article discussing the previously reported Brandon Lloyd and Eddie Royal trade requests. "So has QB Kyle Orton in a mini-stampede," writes the Associated Press. It's not the least bit surprising that Orton would ask out considering he was recently benched for Tim Tebow. With the Broncos, Orton wouldn't get that chance again without a Tebow injury, and possibly one to Brady Quinn, too).

Interesting...

Ugly Duck
10-16-2011, 08:14 PM
I think it's going to be Gerrard. He didn't like fish because they ain't going to playoffs, but when Oaktown calls he will go. one yr deal. Mark it down cutthemdown has spoken.

Raiders have already contacted David Garrard to see if he wants to try & bail us out. Our season is ****ed. We're so ****ed its really ****ed up. When I say we're ****ed, I mean we're so ****ing ****ed up that the whole ****ing year is ****ing ****ed up so ****ing bad that we couldn't be any more ****ing ****ed if we ****ing tried. Not only does Boller suck, he hasn't been close enough to the starters to smell their B.O.. Oakland has suddenly become Denver... all we have on the team is Orton Boller & Terrel Tebow. ****. We are so ****ing ****ed... ****!

ScottXray
10-16-2011, 08:14 PM
Actually the offense the Raiders run is exactly the type that Orton would do well in.

Big strong , fast runners, excellent WRs that are tall and can go up for the ball. Ball control type offense.

Orton would do well there.

We would need to get their 5th or 6th and a conditional 2013 2nd or third depending on if he gets them to the playoffs.

His current year contract is largely paid already...so they only pick up about 5mill of it. They might actually go for it, and we might actually regret it in time.

Bronx33
10-16-2011, 08:18 PM
Raiders have already contacted David Garrard to see if he wants to try & bail us out. Our season is ****ed. We're so ****ed its really ****ed up. When I say we're ****ed, I mean we're so ****ing ****ed up that the whole ****ing year is ****ing ****ed up so ****ing bad that we couldn't be any more ****ing ****ed if we ****ing tried. Not only does Boller suck, he hasn't been close enough to the starters to smell their B.O.. Oakland has suddenly become Denver... all we have on the team is Orton Boller & Terrel Tebow. ****. We are so ****ing ****ed... ****!



Chin up sparky orton to the rescue..

Rolandftw
10-16-2011, 08:21 PM
It's not Orton's fault that McDaniels offered a $9 million extension. He's definitely overpaid, but there were teams that would have given $5-7 million a year probably under a short term deal. He was underpaid under his previous deal as well...

Bottomline is he has value, if a team is willing to pay a price of a late round draft pick I don't see any negative in trading him really. Oakland might be confident with Boller... or like Garrard, since he's available. Hard to bring in a QB in the middle of the season

Rolandftw
10-16-2011, 08:24 PM
We would need to get their 5th or 6th and a conditional 2013 2nd or third depending on if he gets them to the playoffs.

We aren't getting that kind of value out of Orton. Not in a contract year, and not when Oakland likely has confidence that Campbell can come back next season and will be the starter. If they can get a 2013 4th rounder, it's a good deal for both sides. They aren't giving up a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a rental.

boltaneer
10-16-2011, 08:35 PM
Raiders have already contacted David Garrard to see if he wants to try & bail us out. Our season is ****ed. We're so ****ed its really ****ed up. When I say we're ****ed, I mean we're so ****ing ****ed up that the whole ****ing year is ****ing ****ed up so ****ing bad that we couldn't be any more ****ing ****ed if we ****ing tried. Not only does Boller suck, he hasn't been close enough to the starters to smell their B.O.. Oakland has suddenly become Denver... all we have on the team is Orton Boller & Terrel Tebow. ****. We are so ****ing ****ed... ****!

Oh, come on. Campbell isn't THAT good.

Sign Garrard or trade the farm in order to bait Mike Brown to trade Carson Palmer and you'll be fine.

Actually, you'll probably still be okay with Boller. Raiders can just run the ball and dominate to sweep the division again.

Oh wait... nevermind.

ScottXray
10-16-2011, 08:38 PM
We aren't getting that kind of value out of Orton. Not in a contract year, and not when Oakland likely has confidence that Campbell can come back next season and will be the starter. If they can get a 2013 4th rounder, it's a good deal for both sides. They aren't giving up a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a rental.

Thats where the CONDITIONAL part comes in. They give us a 5th in the 2012
draft.

If he does well and the Raiders make playoffs and re-sign Orton then its a 2013 4th, if they win division a 2013 third, Superbowl a 2013 2nd. If he bombs then its a 5th this year and another 5th next. About equivalent to a 4th this year , which they don't have.

Fair to everyone, and Orton actually gets another chance where his talents may be a better fit.

Rolandftw
10-16-2011, 08:52 PM
Yeah, but those type of conditions don't usually exist to trades. They're not as elaborate at least. Not in the players best interest either... as the team might not be willing to concede a 4th round pick and resign Orton, if they can get a similar player.

And they'd have a shot at winning the division this year with Orton, and still have to give up that third round pick if they do so.. without even resigning him.

Ugly Duck
10-16-2011, 08:54 PM
About equivalent to a 4th this year , which they don't have.

Raiders get 3 compensatory picks for players that flew the coop (Awesome-wa, Robert Gallery & Zach Miller). Looks to be a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th. Thats why they didn't mind giving up a 3rd in the Supplemental draft for Terrel Tebow... I mean Tim Pryor.

ScottXray
10-16-2011, 08:59 PM
Yeah, but those type of conditions don't usually exist to trades. They're not as elaborate at least. Not in the players best interest either... as the team might not be willing to concede a 4th round pick and resign Orton, if they can get a similar player.

And they'd have a shot at winning the division this year with Orton, and still have to give up that third round pick if they do so.. without even resigning him.

No compensatory pick for trades....only for Free agency losses. You set
the total value at the time of trade, which is why ther are conditional picks to be determined later.

Raiders are in the playoff hunt, and Campbells loss threatens that. Orton could probably get them over the hump . If he doesn't they lose a fifth, if he does and they re-sign him the 13 pick comes in and escalates the further he gets them.

Depends on if they think Orton may be the answer. If not they stick with Boller or bring in Garrard and pray.

Crushaholic
10-16-2011, 09:08 PM
Sending Orton to the Raiders would be a VERY bad idea. As Chris said, the Raiders have a solid running game and a solid defense. I would add that Orton would have nobody (like a Tim Tebow) looking over his shoulder. This would only rejuvenate his career...:thumbsdow

Ugly Duck
10-16-2011, 09:08 PM
No compensatory pick for trades....only for Free agency losses.

Right... Oakland lost those players to free agency.

Yahoo Sports: Before improving to 4-2, the Oakland Raiders lit an eternal flame to honor the late Al Davis. After Sunday’s 24-17 victory over the Cleveland Browns, the team is apparently still channeling Davis’ aggressive spirit. As the NFL trading deadline looms Tuesday at 4 p.m. ET, the Raiders are attempting to fill a black hole at the NFL’s most critical position by approaching Cincinnati about quarterback Carson Palmer.

According to a source familiar with the team’s thinking, the Raiders were “trying hard” to make a deal for Palmer, although the source highly doubted that Cincinnati owner Mike Brown would deal Palmer. Oakland quarterback Jason Campbell left the game with a broken collarbone and could miss the remainder of the season. That leaves the Raiders as a playoff competitor with a shaky quarterback situation. Kyle Boller is the starter and Terrelle Pryor, who just became eligible last week after a five-game suspension, is the backup.

That caused the Raiders to hit the phones quickly after the game Sunday, hoping to get the “retired” Palmer, who has been pushing for a deal since early in the offseason. In fact, Palmer politely asked Brown again this week for a trade, according to a source close to the situation. So far, no go. In all likelihood, Brown will continue to stonewall. Brown has never been a guy to give in to demands, even when they are logical. Bengals fans probably remember the package of draft picks, including at least one first-rounder and another pick that likely would have become a No. 1, Brown once turned down for wide receiver Chad Ochocinco.

Beyond that, Brown might not be willing to trade Palmer to a team that he perceives as a potential playoff competitor. As the first source alluded to Sunday night after Campbell got hurt, you can point a gun at Brown’s head and he won’t flinch.

In this situation, Davis likely would pull out some serious stops. But the Raiders are in a bit of a quandary right now because they don’t have second-, third- or fourth-round picks in 2012 because of a series of moves (they used the third-rounder for Pryor in the supplemental draft, for instance).

In this situation, the Raiders would do well to offer Cincinnati a third-round pick in 2013 that could increase in value to a second- or even first-round pick if Palmer performed well either this year or in 2012.

Palmer hasn’t played very well since the 2007 season and there are lingering questions about his right elbow. Still, with Palmer there is a chance for something good and it’s clear he’s better than Campbell, even without much time to prepare.

Oakland coach Hue Jackson knows Palmer from their days together in Cincinnati. Jackson was the wide receivers coach for the Bengals from 2004-06, when Palmer was just getting started as a player. Jackson privately told people close to him that he would be interested in Palmer once Brown was willing to deal.

Well, the Raiders need to find out now and they need to find out in a hurry.

UberBroncoMan
10-16-2011, 09:09 PM
Agree on Garrard, cheaper and better.

Fits with what they look for in a starting QB too.

bigbucks24
10-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Raiders get 3 compensatory picks for players that flew the coop (Awesome-wa, Robert Gallery & Zach Miller). Looks to be a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th. Thats why they didn't mind giving up a 3rd in the Supplemental draft for Terrel Tebow... I mean Tim Pryor.

Those picks have been announced already? I was under the impression that they were announced just before the draft. Can you tell us what other teams have comp picks coming?

ScottXray
10-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Well, the ghost of AL may be screwing the Raiders now. Nobody wants to help them out and get raped in the process.

Surprise.

Bronx33
10-16-2011, 09:14 PM
Fits with what they look for in a starting QB too.


Plus garrard has the ability to put one foot in front of the other in a speedy motion some times called scrambling.

go_broncos
10-16-2011, 09:16 PM
Garrard will be their QB..He is better than Jason Campbell and Orton

UberBroncoMan
10-16-2011, 09:25 PM
Seems Raider fans think they are going to do everything to get Carson Palmer.

...that would be interesting...

boltaneer
10-16-2011, 11:33 PM
Those picks have been announced already? I was under the impression that they were announced just before the draft. Can you tell us what other teams have comp picks coming?

They're announced in the off-season. And it will based off of some formula combination of the player's new contract and their performance for this year.

Also, I'm pretty sure, comp picks can be affected by any free agents that particular team signs as well.

I can't remember all of the free agents the Raiders signed this year but Kevin Boss is one and he'll likely nullify Gallery or Zach Miller.

If he's the only significant signing they made, I'd expect them to get two comp picks, with the one for Asomugha most likely being a 3rd round pick.

SoCalBronco
10-16-2011, 11:59 PM
I'm not sure why Ugly Duck is heartbroken over Campbell. There's a reason his middle name is "I can't work with this".

:haw!:

cutthemdown
10-17-2011, 05:18 AM
Looks like Raiders want Carson Palmer and our trying to work a deal. They would probably have to give a first round pick though, its all they have left and Bengals seem content letting Palmer rot.

tebowisdabomb
10-17-2011, 06:06 AM
Orton to Raiders would be awesome but no team is dumb enough to give anything of value for orton, even the raiders.

That so called "Dumb Team" is kicking the Donks ass quite regularly now.

Ugly Duck
10-17-2011, 06:45 AM
I'm not sure why Ugly Duck is heartbroken over Campbell. There's a reason his middle name is "I can't work with this".

:haw!:

Campbell is 7-0 against the AFCW. He's a pedestrian QB that manages the offense well & makes few mistakes. Now the QB is Kyle Boller. He sucks. If Boller goes down, next up is Shane Lechler (the punter).

ESPN John Clayton: Though it was a great victory for the Oakland Raiders (24-17 over the Browns), the loss of quarterback Jason Campbell with a broken collarbone could slow down their playoff run. Campbell is expected to miss the rest of the season. Kyle Boller assumes the Raiders' starting job, but the team might have to make a move. Hue Jackson's coaching may be good enough to get Oakland to beat the Kansas City Chiefs at home next week, but the drop-off from Campbell to Boller could be dramatic.

broncogary
10-17-2011, 07:03 AM
...

Yahoo Sports: Before improving to 4-2, the Oakland Raiders lit an eternal flame to honor the late Al Davis...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sVdBj_98-NM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 07:33 AM
Sending Orton to the Raiders would be a VERY bad idea. As Chris said, the Raiders have a solid running game and a solid defense. I would add that Orton would have nobody (like a Tim Tebow) looking over his shoulder. This would only rejuvenate his career...:thumbsdow

People who still think Orton is a good QB crack me up...

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 07:35 AM
Looks like Raiders want Carson Palmer and our trying to work a deal. They would probably have to give a first round pick though, its all they have left and Bengals seem content letting Palmer rot.

A 1st rounder for Carson Palmer? Hilarious!

Gort
10-17-2011, 07:44 AM
Seems Raider fans think they are going to do everything to get Carson Palmer.

...that would be interesting...

i think Palmer is staying retired. at this point, it's a personal thing with the Bengals owner. he won't give up the rights to Palmer to anybody.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/07/bengals-owner-mike-brown-says-qb-carson-palmer-has-retired/1

tebowisdabomb
10-17-2011, 07:44 AM
I would love to have Orton as the QB for the Raiders and I am a Raiderfan.

+ Orton is in football shape

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 07:48 AM
I would love to have Orton as the QB for the Raiders and I am a Raiderfan.

+ Orton is in football shape

The mods really need to stop letting you change your name from one QB to another. It's almost as if they are encouraging your trolling...

tebowisdabomb
10-17-2011, 07:49 AM
The mods really need to stop letting you change your name from one QB to another. It's almost as if they are encouraging your trolling...

You just worry about what Agamemnon does rookie

tebowisdabomb
10-17-2011, 07:50 AM
i think Palmer is staying retired. at this point, it's a personal thing with the Bengals owner. he won't give up the rights to Palmer to anybody.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/07/bengals-owner-mike-brown-says-qb-carson-palmer-has-retired/1

Hell Palmer hasn't had a good season since 2007.... And I bet he is rusty as hell now.... I would rather have Boller

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 07:52 AM
You just worry about what Agamemnon does rookie

::)

tebowisdabomb
10-17-2011, 08:52 AM
Broncos willing to deal Orton to rival Raiders

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-broncos-willing-to-deal-orton-to-rival-raiders-20111017,0,5134257.story

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 09:38 AM
Raiders have already contacted David Garrard to see if he wants to try & bail us out. Our season is ****ed. We're so ****ed its really ****ed up. When I say we're ****ed, I mean we're so ****ing ****ed up that the whole ****ing year is ****ing ****ed up so ****ing bad that we couldn't be any more ****ing ****ed if we ****ing tried. Not only does Boller suck, he hasn't been close enough to the starters to smell their B.O.. Oakland has suddenly become Denver... all we have on the team is Orton Boller & Terrel Tebow. ****. We are so ****ing ****ed... ****!

Oh if only Terrelle Pryor was half the player Tebow is... Hilarious!

maven
10-17-2011, 10:38 AM
Broncos willing to deal Orton to rival Raiders

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-broncos-willing-to-deal-orton-to-rival-raiders-20111017,0,5134257.story

Ship him for a 2013 6th round pick.

Rolandftw
10-17-2011, 10:42 AM
If he's dealt, it's probably for a 7th rounder... can't imagine Oakland giving up more then a 6th or 7th rounder at this point.

Especially after the Lloyd deal.

tebowisdabomb
10-17-2011, 11:22 AM
If he's dealt, it's probably for a 7th rounder... can't imagine Oakland giving up more then a 6th or 7th rounder at this point.

Especially after the Lloyd deal.

YUP... you guys still owe him like 5 mil, you may give him up for nothing but paying his salary

Sim Pilot 4.0
10-17-2011, 11:22 AM
Oh if only Terrelle Pryor was half the player Tebow is... Hilarious!

Are you serious about this? Tebow is exciting but I would stop short of saying he is better than any quarterback at this point. We really don't know what tebow will be until we see him. He isn't a prototype QB. Pryor is more of a pocket QB but nobody has seen him play. Lets just hope that TT doesn't have us dreaming of the Orton days.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 11:25 AM
Are you serious about this? Tebow is exciting but I would stop short of saying he is better than any quarterback at this point. We really don't know what tebow will be until we see him. He isn't a prototype QB. Pryor is more of a pocket QB but nobody has seen him play. Lets just hope that TT doesn't have us dreaming of the Orton days.

Are you kidding? You would stop short of calling him a better QB than Terrelle Pryor? And Pryor is more of a pocket QB? GTFO...

Sim Pilot 4.0
10-17-2011, 11:32 AM
Are you kidding? You would stop short of calling him a better QB than Terrelle Pryor? And Pryor is more of a pocket QB? GTFO...

No i'm not kidding! Pryor is more like Cam Newton. Any real football fan knows that Newton is light years ahead of Tebow. Pryor has better stuff going on in the pocket than Tebow also. Of course i'm saying this from his college games but its obvious. Tebow is a scramble first pass second QB. Do you deny this fact?

I'm not a homer man. Tebow just cannot throw the ball accurately and its going to hurt us. He's exciting and I will enjoy watching him. I will also enjoy the small improvements from week to week but he can't throw the ball right now.

zdoor
10-17-2011, 12:08 PM
Glazer tweeted that Garrard needs surgery on a herniated disc and is out of the QB talk....

edog24
10-17-2011, 12:21 PM
Sure doesn't bode well seeing our best WR go for a 6th.

For the sloth I think anything above a large pizza and Willie Gault is a win for us at this point.

robbieopperude
10-17-2011, 12:47 PM
I just can't see the Raiders taking Orton unless Garrard's workout is terrible. I mean real terrible.

robbieopperude
10-17-2011, 12:48 PM
Just read the Garrard comment. Things just got better for us. If he goes it will be either for another player or a 7th round pick in 2013. I am sure Bowlen would be happy to cut the 5 million off of the books.

robbieopperude
10-17-2011, 12:50 PM
No i'm not kidding! Pryor is more like Cam Newton. Any real football fan knows that Newton is light years ahead of Tebow. Pryor has better stuff going on in the pocket than Tebow also. Of course i'm saying this from his college games but its obvious. Tebow is a scramble first pass second QB. Do you deny this fact?

I'm not a homer man. Tebow just cannot throw the ball accurately and its going to hurt us. He's exciting and I will enjoy watching him. I will also enjoy the small improvements from week to week but he can't throw the ball right now.

He can throw well enough to be a winner in this league. He and John Fox are going to work well together. We just need to build a defense around him.

maven
10-17-2011, 12:52 PM
Glazer tweeted that Garrard needs surgery on a herniated disc and is out of the QB talk....

http://www.talknerdytomelover.com/storage/thumbs-up-borat.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1296857346732

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 12:58 PM
No i'm not kidding! Pryor is more like Cam Newton. Any real football fan knows that Newton is light years ahead of Tebow. Pryor has better stuff going on in the pocket than Tebow also. Of course i'm saying this from his college games but its obvious. Tebow is a scramble first pass second QB. Do you deny this fact?

I'm not a homer man. Tebow just cannot throw the ball accurately and its going to hurt us. He's exciting and I will enjoy watching him. I will also enjoy the small improvements from week to week but he can't throw the ball right now.

Okay so Pryor is more like Cam Newton. And Cam Newton is light years ahead of Tebow. Sorry I couldn't keep reading past that... Hilarious!

Cam Newton was drafted as high as he was because he is a mobile black QB with a good arm, and those have a history of being drafted high. He also doesn't have the funky throwing motion. If you think Newton is ahead of Tebow in terms of reading defenses or taking snaps from under center you are a complete retard. They have virtually identical games with virtually identical strengths and weaknesses. And the Pryor thing? Jesus Christ...

TonyR
10-17-2011, 01:18 PM
Did anybody see how awful Rex Grossman was yesterday? Maybe Elway should get on the phone with Shanny...

Ugly Duck
10-17-2011, 01:27 PM
The similarities between Pryor & Tebow are that they both can run & they both play the QB position, but nobody knows if either can play QB in the NFL. Differences are that Pryor cost Oakland a 3rd (that they most likely get back from losing Awesome-wa to free agency), and Tebow cost Denver a 2nd and a 3rd and a 4th for the right to use a 1st on him. So far, neither has shown that they can play with the big boys.

bendog
10-17-2011, 01:35 PM
What sucks is that since Oak wasn't gonna pay him, I'd have given them Orton, McBean and the 5th for Lloyd for the right to sign gallery.

Maximus
10-17-2011, 01:53 PM
Okay so Pryor is more like Cam Newton. And Cam Newton is light years ahead of Tebow. Sorry I couldn't keep reading past that... Hilarious!

Cam Newton was drafted as high as he was because he is a mobile black QB.

So... not only are you ignorant about football but you have a hint of the typical racial attitude surrounding the merits of drafting a Black QB high in the draft! You and DogCow ( The Black Man is keeping Teblows down ) are pathetic!

So, Newton was drafted because he's a Black Quarterback and not because he's a good QB... which has been proven by his play! His mechanics are superior to Teblows... His footwork is superior to teblows and he can make all the throws. Unfortunately teblows doesn't have the skill set. Maybe haven't watched the games or more likely your racism has blinded you to the real facts... but, Newton can and is reading defenses and taking snaps from under center. He doesn't rely on the shot gun or belly reads to succeed.

Your problem is nothing new... you can't see past color... I passed up Dogcow on the comment he made because it was just sheer stupidity! The black man holding down the White Mobile QB... The majority of the people who evaluate the talent and coach are White... That same majority continually state that Tebow can't play the position because of specific reasons and I haven't heard one of them say... he can't do it because he's white! It's mechanics, footwork and the ability to read and react properly to defenses mother ****er!

el chalupacabra
10-17-2011, 02:07 PM
So... not only are you ignorant about football but you have a hint of the typical racial attitude surrounding the merits of drafting a Black QB high in the draft! You and DogCow ( The Black Man is keeping Teblows down ) are pathetic!

So, Newton was drafted because he's a Black Quarterback and not because he's a good QB... which has been proven by his play! His mechanics are superior to Teblows... His footwork is superior to teblows and he can make all the throws. Unfortunately teblows doesn't have the skill set. Maybe haven't watched the games or more likely your racism has blinded you to the real facts... but, Newton can and is reading defenses and taking snaps from under center. He doesn't rely on the shot gun or belly reads to succeed.

Your problem is nothing new... you can't see past color... I passed up Dogcow on the comment he made because it was just sheer stupidity! The black man holding down the White Mobile QB... The majority of the people who evaluate the talent and coach are White... That same majority continually state that Tebow can't play the position because of specific reasons and I haven't heard one of them say... he can't do it because he's white! It's mechanics, footwork and the ability to read and react properly to defenses mother ****er!

High fiving a raider fan for the first, and hopefully last, time in my life.

Nice avatar too.

UberBroncoMan
10-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Well Schefter just said on ESPN that the Broncos would not trade Orton within the division to the Raiders. He's very rarely wrong on Broncos stuff, even since Shanahan left.

Maximus
10-17-2011, 02:24 PM
High fiving a raider fan for the first, and hopefully last, time in my life.

Nice avatar too.

Thank you! I cannot stand prejudice or racial people! I just don't tolerate it from anyone!

maven
10-17-2011, 02:32 PM
Well Schefter just said on ESPN that the Broncos would not trade Orton within the division to the Raiders. He's very rarely wrong on Broncos stuff, even since Shanahan left.

Well that ****ing sucks! It's ****ing Orton. Ship him there now!

BroncoBen
10-17-2011, 03:49 PM
Well Schefter just said on ESPN that the Broncos would not trade Orton within the division to the Raiders. He's very rarely wrong on Broncos stuff, even since Shanahan left.

Well I bet that all would change if the Raiders offered a 1st round pick, I believe that is all they have. Win one for Al... Take the bait and win one for Al..

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 05:19 PM
Well Schefter just said on ESPN that the Broncos would not trade Orton within the division to the Raiders. He's very rarely wrong on Broncos stuff, even since Shanahan left.


Orton is zero threat so hes wrong.

vonqkilla
10-17-2011, 05:20 PM
Really hoping oak gives us a pick for orton.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 05:20 PM
So... not only are you ignorant about football but you have a hint of the typical racial attitude surrounding the merits of drafting a Black QB high in the draft! You and DogCow ( The Black Man is keeping Teblows down ) are pathetic!

So, Newton was drafted because he's a Black Quarterback and not because he's a good QB... which has been proven by his play! His mechanics are superior to Teblows... His footwork is superior to teblows and he can make all the throws. Unfortunately teblows doesn't have the skill set. Maybe haven't watched the games or more likely your racism has blinded you to the real facts... but, Newton can and is reading defenses and taking snaps from under center. He doesn't rely on the shot gun or belly reads to succeed.

Your problem is nothing new... you can't see past color... I passed up Dogcow on the comment he made because it was just sheer stupidity! The black man holding down the White Mobile QB... The majority of the people who evaluate the talent and coach are White... That same majority continually state that Tebow can't play the position because of specific reasons and I haven't heard one of them say... he can't do it because he's white! It's mechanics, footwork and the ability to read and react properly to defenses mother ****er!

Boy did you read into that post...

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 05:22 PM
Thank you! I cannot stand prejudice or racial people! I just don't tolerate it from anyone!


stfu honkey ;D

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Really hoping oak gives us a pick for orton.

More likely:

Palmer
Leinart
Flynn
Hoyer
Thigpen

The brightside? They're running out of time to get their paws on one of these guys :)

vonqkilla
10-17-2011, 05:25 PM
Landeskog gonna be a beast. Avs best team in town!

Maximus
10-17-2011, 05:26 PM
Boy did you read into that post...

Yeah I read it now try to cover it up! You tell me what skin tone has to do with it... Dig yourself out while your at it!

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 05:28 PM
Yeah I read it now try to cover it up! You tell me what skin tone has to do with it... Dig yourself out while your at it!


Get the **** off the soapbox.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 05:30 PM
Yeah I read it now try to cover it up! You tell me what skin tone has to do with it... Dig yourself out while your at it!

I think he's making fun of the other guy for comparing Pryor and Newton and yet not Tebow.

There's your prejudice. Go get em, Sharpton.

Maximus
10-17-2011, 05:54 PM
I think he's making fun of the other guy for comparing Pryor and Newton and yet not Tebow.

There's your prejudice. Go get em, Sharpton.

Cam Newton was drafted as high as he was because he is a mobile black QB with a good arm, and those have a history of being drafted high.

He said it... now if you want to co-sign and share his **** salad be my guest. There are some things you cannot spin!

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 05:55 PM
He said it... now if you want to co-sign and share his **** salad be my guest. There are some things you cannot spin!

What part isn't true?

Is Cam not black?

Is he not mobile?

Does he have a bad arm?

Help me out here, Jesse Jackson?

Maximus
10-17-2011, 05:57 PM
What part isn't true?

Is Cam not black?

Is he not mobile?

Does he have a bad arm?

Help me out here, Jesse Jackson?

I can't help you read...

Was Cam drafted because he was a Black QB? or just because he's a QB?
What does his blackness have to do with anything?

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 05:59 PM
I can't help you read...

Was Cam drafted because he was a Black QB? or just because he's a QB?
What does his blackness have to do with anything?

Um, he didn't say that.

He said he was drafted high because he's a mobile black QB with a good arm.

Point out the falsehood?

Spoiler: He's not the one "race-baiting". YOU ARE.

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 05:59 PM
I can't help you read...

Was Cam drafted because he was a Black QB? or just because he's a QB?
What does his blackness have to do with anything?


You're reading and interpreting it completely wrong jesse.

Maximus
10-17-2011, 06:02 PM
Um, he didn't say that.

He said he was drafted high because he's a mobile black QB with a good arm.

Point out the falsehood?

Spoiler: He's not the one "race-baiting". YOU ARE.

So, saying that he's a mobile QB is not good enough... Pointing out that he's Black has what significance?

I remind you I didn't write the words... I read what Agamemnon said... why did he bring up race... I didn't....?

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:05 PM
So, saying that he's a mobile QB is not good enough... Pointing out that he's Black has what significance?

I remind you I didn't write the words... I read what Agamemnon said... why did he bring up race... I didn't....?



cause hes ummmmmmm black?

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:07 PM
Even if hes didnt mention it (everybody knows he ****** black!) it isnt a bad thing dude sadly you're making it a bad thing why is that?

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 06:09 PM
So, saying that he's a mobile QB is not good enough... Pointing out that he's Black has what significance?

I remind you I didn't write the words... I read what Agamemnon said... why did he bring up race... I didn't....?

OMG SOMEONE MENTIONED A BLACK GUY IS BLACK! IT'S 1940 ALL OVER AGAIN!

Settle down, Malcolm X.

Why does someone being black have a negative connotation WITH YOU, hmmm? Paging Dr Freud.

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:13 PM
yelling racism is so easy its pathetic.

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:13 PM
Orton said he didn't want to be traded because of his new baby.. I think he is waiting for TT to fail because he believes he will have the opportunity to come in and look like a hero..

The Broncos should tell Orton if he is more concerned with spending time with his family than football they are letting him go home for the rest of the season. Cut him.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 06:15 PM
Orton said he didn't want to be traded because of his new baby.. I think he is waiting for TT to fail because he believes he will have the opportunity to come in and look like a hero..

The Broncos should tell Orton if he is more concerned with spending time with his family than football they are letting him go home for the rest of the season. Cut him.

WTF

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:18 PM
gruber is a mental patient

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:18 PM
WTF

What part don't you understand?

Maximus
10-17-2011, 06:19 PM
OMG SOMEONE MENTIONED A BLACK GUY IS BLACK! IT'S 1940 ALL OVER AGAIN!

Settle down, Malcolm X.

Why does someone being black have a negative connotation WITH YOU, hmmm? Paging Dr Freud.


Noooo partner... The OMG is you're too stupid to see that his statement was totally ignorant and had nothing to do with the original post. 3 mobile qb's were being discussed all three have been maligned for mechanics etc...

What does it have to do with White or Black? and why was it brought into the conversation... I'm not the boogie man the attempt to cover up the bull**** is the boogieman... I'm just not afraid to point out the prejudice that has happened several times!

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:19 PM
What part don't you understand?

the stupid part.

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:19 PM
gruber is a mental patient

Yes.. I am the mental patient. please continue your brilliant race discussion..

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:21 PM
Noooo partner... The OMG is you're too stupid to see that his statement was totally ignorant and had nothing to do with the original post. 3 mobile qb's were being discussed all three have been maligned for mechanics etc...

What does it have to do with White or Black? and why was it brought into the conversation... I'm not the boogie man the attempt to cover up the bull**** is the boogieman... I'm just not afraid to point out the prejudice that has happened several times!


You lost iam sorry you lost but (you're wrong) completely wrong.

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:21 PM
the stupid part.

The stupid part would be the people here that said Orton gave the Broncos the best chance to win.. and that McD was causing all the Broncos problems..

Ring a bell? It's like you mocking the one person here making any sense - me.

ND Bronco Fan
10-17-2011, 06:21 PM
Apparently it was ok to be traded when your wife was 8 months pregnant though?

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:22 PM
You lost iam sorry you lost but (you're wrong) completely wrong.

This is the guy calling people mental patients.. lol

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:22 PM
Yes.. I am the mental patient. please continue your brilliant race discussion..



As long as you understand your place which is the dumb**** department.

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:23 PM
As long as you understand your place which is the dumb**** department.

Yes.. your posts are showing your brilliance.. Again.. continue your brilliant race discussion.

It's legendary...

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:23 PM
This is the guy calling people mental patients.. lol


please stay the **** out of something you have no clue whats going on. ;D

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:24 PM
Apparently it was ok to be traded when your wife was 8 months pregnant though?


Ha!

Punisher
10-17-2011, 06:25 PM
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/50852_o.gif

baja
10-17-2011, 06:25 PM
Define "Black"

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:25 PM
please stay the **** out of something you have no clue whats going on. ;D

Yes.. it's so hard to follow your brilliant discussions...

Let me guess.. you were one of the people that said Orton gives us the best chance to win the past 2 seasons weren't you...

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 06:26 PM
Noooo partner... The OMG is you're too stupid to see that his statement was totally ignorant and had nothing to do with the original post. 3 mobile qb's were being discussed all three have been maligned for mechanics etc...

What does it have to do with White or Black? and why was it brought into the conversation... I'm not the boogie man the attempt to cover up the bull**** is the boogieman... I'm just not afraid to point out the prejudice that has happened several times!

Someone compared Pryor to Newton but not Tebow. That person wasn't the one you're calling out for "racism".

You're the ignorant one, but go ahead living your life yelling at shadows.

Punisher
10-17-2011, 06:28 PM
Every Thread ends up with Everyone Vs MacGruder lol

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:28 PM
Ha!

See.. it's a witch hunt.. If you aren't a witch you can say the exact same thing and not be demonized.. lol

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:29 PM
Yes.. it's so hard to follow your brilliant discussions...

Let me guess.. you were one of the people that said Orton gives us the best chance to win the past 2 seasons weren't you...


I rest my case you nitwit everybody here knows i wasnt in orton corner you fool (everybody) now get back to fondling your tebow doll.

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:29 PM
Every Thread ends up with Everyone Vs MacGruder lol

Shouldn't surprise you.. that's all they do here is witch hunts.

These are the guys who said Orton should start. That is why they blame me for their own stupidity.

Like it's my fault.. like it's my fault they knew nothing about Tebow and I had to explain to them how the media knew as much about Tebow as they do.

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:30 PM
I rest my case you nitwit everybody here knows i wasnt in orton corner you fool (everybody) now get back to fondling your tebow doll.

Sure you weren't... no one was - now..

Stage 3. It's considered self evident...

Maximus
10-17-2011, 06:49 PM
Someone compared Pryor to Newton but not Tebow. That person wasn't the one you're calling out for "racism".

You're the ignorant one, but go ahead living your life yelling at shadows.


Shadows my ass Rev... go back to post 83 and look at the conversation! Tebow Pryor and Newton were all lumped together and compared. Agamemnon brought race in out of the blue... They were all drafted because of their abilities all have been scrutinized and all are mobile... what did color have to do with it?

Was Tebow drafted because he's a white QB?

Is it ok for me to say the following: The only reason Tebow was drafted is because of his skin color because he has no QB skills... If he were black with no skills they would make him play FB or WR. Is that ok?

Don't try to put it on me Rev... Your boy said it and you want to defend a BS statement.

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:52 PM
just stop!! it isnt racism! max

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 06:54 PM
Shadows my ass Rev... go back to post 83 and look at the conversation! Tebow Pryor and Newton were all lumped together and compared. Agamemnon brought race in out of the blue... They were all drafted because of their abilities all have been scrutinized and all are mobile... what did color have to do with it?

Was Tebow drafted because he's a white QB?

Is it ok for me to say the following: The only reason Tebow was drafted is because of his skin color because he has no QB skills... If he were black with no skills they would make him play FB or WR. Is that ok?

Don't try to put it on me Rev... Your boy said it and you want to defend a BS statement.

Spot on! Post #83 is totally racist!

Oh if only Terrelle Pryor was half the player Tebow is... Hilarious!

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3334048&postcount=83

Seriously, in this thread, you're the racist seeming one. I'd be ashamed of your paranoia if I were you.

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 06:56 PM
pathetic

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 06:58 PM
Shadows my ass Rev... go back to post 83 and look at the conversation! Tebow Pryor and Newton were all lumped together and compared. Agamemnon brought race in out of the blue... They were all drafted because of their abilities all have been scrutinized and all are mobile... what did color have to do with it?

Oh lord I was busy lol'ing at you calling post 83 racist that I missed the rest of this!

Was Tebow drafted because he's a white QB?

Is it ok for me to say the following: The only reason Tebow was drafted is because of his skin color because he has no QB skills... If he were black with no skills they would make him play FB or WR. Is that ok?

WTF lol. Please explain how that equates to him saying Cam is mobile, black and has a good arm? In ANY way shape or form?

Don't try to put it on me Rev... Your boy said it and you want to defend a BS statement.

Ftr, Agammemnon is not "my boy". Your attitude is just extremely weak, Johnny Cochran.

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 06:59 PM
Spot on! Post #83 is totally racist!



http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3334048&postcount=83

Seriously, in this thread, you're the racist seeming one. I'd be ashamed of your paranoia if I were you.

Whatta you know.. the Rev in another conversation not about Football in a football thread.. Surprise Surprise.

Who are you blowing to not get banned?

You still posting here is a bigger abomination than Orton being a starter for so long..

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 07:00 PM
Whatta you know.. the Rev in another conversation not about Football in a football thread.. Surprise Surprise.

Who are you blowing to not get banned?

You still posting here is a bigger abomination than Orton being a starter for so long..

I go out of my way to avoid you and your thread jacking so please stop talking to me.

baja
10-17-2011, 07:03 PM
Shadows my ass Rev... go back to post 83 and look at the conversation! Tebow Pryor and Newton were all lumped together and compared. Agamemnon brought race in out of the blue... They were all drafted because of their abilities all have been scrutinized and all are mobile... what did color have to do with it?

Was Tebow drafted because he's a white QB?

Is it ok for me to say the following: The only reason Tebow was drafted is because of his skin color because he has no QB skills... If he were black with no skills they would make him play FB or WR. Is that ok?

Don't try to put it on me Rev... Your boy said it and you want to defend a BS statement.

You called him 'boy' tisk tisk

MacGruder
10-17-2011, 07:07 PM
I go out of my way to avoid you and your thread jacking so please stop talking to me.

More BS from theRev.. surprise surprise... The guy who mocked me in a thread I respond to the mocking an i am banned.. and now you claim YOU avoid me. LMAO

You must do some serious ass kissing to still be posting here and still be such a doosh.

Maximus
10-17-2011, 07:08 PM
Oh lord I was busy lol'ing at you calling post 83 racist that I missed the rest of this!



WTF lol. Please explain how that equates to him saying Cam is mobile, black and has a good arm? In ANY way shape or form?



Ftr, Agammemnon is not "my boy". Your attitude is just extremely weak, Johnny Cochran.

LOL Can I be Chuck D next? Please.... OMG too funny!

Read from post 83 and tell me why blackness was brought up? First Pryor and Tebow were compared... Then Pryor was compared to cam because Sim pilot said they both were similar in the pocket... Then it was stated that Newton was light years ahead of Tebow

Why was Color a factor?

bowtown
10-17-2011, 07:09 PM
http://clevelandim.co/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/peyton_hillis_blog.jpg

"Hey dudes, what's shaking?"

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 07:11 PM
LOL Can I be Chuck D next? Please.... OMG too funny!

Read from post 83 and tell me why blackness was brought up? First Pryor and Tebow were compared... Then Pryor was compared to cam because Sim pilot said they both were similar in the pocket... Then it was stated that Newton was light years ahead of Tebow

Why was Color a factor?

You have your order all sorts of screwed up. Read through those posts in order again. Sim Pilot makes the Pryor and Newton comparison.

And why is mentioning Cam's black a bad thing? Seriously explain that to me. You seem to be avoiding that question.

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 07:12 PM
Hey max! congrats on making this thread completely stupid!

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 07:13 PM
You called him 'boy' tisk tisk

calling him white would have been over the line.

Bronx33
10-17-2011, 07:15 PM
LOL Can I be Chuck D next? Please.... OMG too funny!

Read from post 83 and tell me why blackness was brought up? First Pryor and Tebow were compared... Then Pryor was compared to cam because Sim pilot said they both were similar in the pocket... Then it was stated that Newton was light years ahead of Tebow

Why was Color a factor?


LOL just stop its not there it never was.

Maximus
10-17-2011, 07:33 PM
You have your order all sorts of screwed up. Read through those posts in order again. Sim Pilot makes the Pryor and Newton comparison.

And why is mentioning Cam's black a bad thing? Seriously explain that to me. You seem to be avoiding that question.

LOL OMG are you being obtuse on purpose?

Race wasn't a factor in the conversation... I have asked you numerous times Why did it become a factor in a conversation that was comparing 3 people (No matter what color) who have gone through the same scrutiny. All of them have the same type of style.

Sounds like your boy! feels like being black has been an advantage to Newton and... Your boy probably feels like Tebow isn't getting a fair shake because he's white! Color had no place in the conversation and I called it out! You're a fool for trying to defend someone else's ignorance.

My position is they all are being judged on their skills to play on the NFL level being Mobile QB's... All Mobile QB's have to live up to the most successful Mobile QB and that is Steve Young!

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 07:43 PM
LOL OMG are you being obtuse on purpose?

Race wasn't a factor in the conversation... I have asked you numerous times Why did it become a factor in a conversation that was comparing 3 people (No matter what color) who have gone through the same scrutiny. All of them have the same type of style.

Sounds like your boy! feels like being black has been an advantage to Newton and... Your boy probably feels like Tebow isn't getting a fair shake because he's white! Color had no place in the conversation and I called it out! You're a fool for trying to defend someone else's ignorance.

My position is they all are being judged on their skills to play on the NFL level being Mobile QB's... All Mobile QB's have to live up to the most successful Mobile QB and that is Steve Young!

Race wasn't a factor in the conversation?

Seems like it was when someone compared Newton and Pryor and not Tebow.

...but hey, racism only works one way right? Just don't mention a black person is black and it's all good!

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 07:46 PM
I think Max's point is that Agamemnon's post (with a single word omitted):

"Cam Newton was drafted as high as he was because he is a mobile QB with a good arm, and those have a history of being drafted high."

... would have made the point just fine. Agamemnon didn't need to add the word that specified skin color...

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 07:48 PM
I think Max's point is that Agamemnon's post (with a single word omitted):

"Cam Newton was drafted as high as he was because he is a mobile QB with a good arm, and those have a history of being drafted high."

... would have made the point just fine. Agamemnon didn't need to add the word that specified skin color...

...but adding it is racist? Ha!

Maximus
10-17-2011, 07:49 PM
...but adding it is racist? Ha!

When you say he was drafted BECAUSE He's black it indicates something else...

baja
10-17-2011, 07:50 PM
LOL Can I be Chuck D next? Please.... OMG too funny!

Read from post 83 and tell me why blackness was brought up? First Pryor and Tebow were compared... Then Pryor was compared to cam because Sim pilot said they both were similar in the pocket... Then it was stated that Newton was light years ahead of Tebow

<b>Why was Color a factor?

Not that I have a dog in this hunt but some would say it would take a racist thought to see this as racist and not just an innocent comment.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 07:50 PM
When you say he was drafted BECAUSE He's black it indicates something else...

I'd totally agree with you if he had said anything close to that.

...but he didn't.

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 07:51 PM
...but adding it is racist? Ha!

Adding it is irrelevant. Putting it in there makes it sound like the Panthers drafted him so high because he's black; not because of his skillset or the potential they saw in him to be their QBOTF.

Maximus
10-17-2011, 07:51 PM
I think Max's point is that Agamemnon's post (with a single word omitted):

"Cam Newton was drafted as high as he was because he is a mobile QB with a good arm, and those have a history of being drafted high."

... would have made the point just fine. Agamemnon didn't need to add the word that specified skin color...

Exactly Blue!!!

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 07:54 PM
Adding it is irrelevant. Putting it in there makes it sound like the Panthers drafted him so high because he's black; not because of his skillset or the potential they saw in him to be their QBOTF.

That's absurd.

If I referred to you at some point as the female mod, do you take that with some self-inferred, phantom negative connotation?

Maybe we should just avoid all adjectives in posts from here on out?

Maximus
10-17-2011, 07:55 PM
I'd totally agree with you if he had said anything close to that.

...but he didn't.

Maybe you don't see it... Because "YOU" don't feel that way or see color like that Rev. However, it's in black and white ( no pun intended ).

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 07:57 PM
That's absurd.

If I referred to you at some point as the female mod, do you take that with some self-inferred, phantom negative connotation?

Maybe we should just avoid all adjectives in posts from here on out?

Do you believe the Panthers factored his skin color into the decision to draft him? I don't... not for a nanosecond.

For what it's worth, I have been slammed as a mod for being female. Oh, well. I don't care. TJ didn't choose me as a mod based on gender either.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 07:57 PM
Maybe you don't see it... Because "YOU" don't feel that way or see color like that Rev. However, it's in black and white ( no pun intended ).

Clearly you do.

I think that's the point to walk away from this with.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 07:58 PM
Do you believe the Panthers factored his skin color into the decision to draft him? I don't... not for a nanosecond.

No

For what it's worth, I have been slammed as a mod for being female. Oh, well. I don't care. TJ didn't choose me as a mod based on gender either.

You didn't answer the question. I repeat:

"If I referred to you at some point as the female mod, do you take that with some self-inferred, phantom negative connotation?"

UberBroncoMan
10-17-2011, 07:59 PM
With all the talk of racism...

Anyone notice how Philly and Oakland have each had three black QB's over the last few years.

McNabb - Vick - Young
JaFatass - Campbell - Pryor

Plot to keep down the white QB?

I think we're on to something!

baja
10-17-2011, 07:59 PM
Maybe you don't see it... Because "YOU" don't feel that way or see color like that Rev. However, it's in black and white ( no pun intended ).

Are you aware that most black people and most white people are to some degree racist?

It's the elephant in the middle of the room that society tries to ignore.

baja
10-17-2011, 08:01 PM
Do you believe the Panthers factored his skin color into the decision to draft him? I don't... not for a nanosecond.

For what it's worth, I have been slammed as a mod for being female. Oh, well. I don't care. TJ didn't choose me as a mod based on gender either.


For two years you passed yourself off as a male - what does that say?

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 08:02 PM
No



You didn't answer the question. I repeat:

"If I referred to you at some point as the female mod, do you take that with some self-inferred, phantom negative connotation?"

Yes, I did answer the question. That has happened. Whether or not it's taken with any negative... or positive... or neutral... connotation depends entirely on context.

However, if gender isn't relevant to the debate, why introduce it? ???

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 08:05 PM
For two years you passed yourself off as a male - what does that say?

I did not. People assumed I was male and for a couple of months, I didn't correct that misconception.

baja
10-17-2011, 08:06 PM
I did not. People assumed I was male and for a couple of months, I didn't correct that misconception.

Why not?

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 08:09 PM
Why not?

Why should I have? I mean, really... my football takes stand on their own (or don't) regardless of my physical characteristics.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 08:09 PM
Yes, I did answer the question. That has happened. Whether or not it's taken with any negative... or positive... or neutral... connotation depends entirely on context.

However, if gender isn't relevant to the debate, why introduce it? ???

No, you certainly didn't answer it.

Saying you've been slammed in the past for being female has nothing to do with what I asked.

That's like saying Cam's been slammed in the past for being black so clearly Agammemnon was being racist by mentioning he's black.

Maximus
10-17-2011, 08:11 PM
Clearly you do.

I think that's the point to walk away from this with.

Nice try... I didn't bring color into this your boy did! And you tried to defend his BS and there was no reason to bring color into the discussion.... Zero...He did it and you defended it. Knowing its wrong and defending it is willful ignorance!

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 08:14 PM
No, you certainly didn't answer it.

Saying you've been slammed in the past for being female has nothing to do with what I asked.

That's like saying Cam's been slammed in the past for being black so clearly Agammemnon was being racist by mentioning he's black.

OK. Do you believe my gender was in any way a factor in TJ's decision to make me a mod? (It wasn't). Just as Cam Newton's skin color didn't enter into the Panthers' decision to draft him. It's irrelevant to the discussion, so why bring it up? Clearly it must carry some significance for the person who does...

Maximus
10-17-2011, 08:15 PM
Are you aware that most black people and most white people are to some degree racist?

It's the elephant in the middle of the room that society tries to ignore.

Wrong... Baja... Prejudice is the proper term. Everyone has built in prejudice. Racism or having racial beliefs is completely different!

jhns
10-17-2011, 08:16 PM
There is a simple solution to all this fighting. Both Agamemnon and Maximus are racist. Their football takes prove it. One likes the raiders and the other is a McFan...

Maximus
10-17-2011, 08:20 PM
There is a simple solution to all this fighting. Both Agamemnon and Maximus are racist. Their football takes prove it. One likes the raiders and the other is a McFan...

LOL

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 08:22 PM
Nice try... I didn't bring color into this your boy did! And you tried to defend his BS and there was no reason to bring color into the discussion.... Zero...He did it and you defended it. Knowing its wrong and defending it is willful ignorance!

::)

Call me when you actually have something to complain about.

FFS, you can walk outside and get a LOT more racism to complain about than in his effing post, that's for sure.

OK. Do you believe my gender was in any way a factor in TJ's decision to make me a mod? (It wasn't). Just as Cam Newton's skin color didn't enter into the Panthers' decision to draft him. It's irrelevant to the discussion, so why bring it up? Clearly it must carry some significance for the person who does...

No, I certainly don't. Nor do I think it has any bearing on anything. Yet I might absolutely refer to you as a female mod.

This is a pointless discussion. You guys are HYPER sensitive and a part of the problem, imo. And yes, I'm dead serious.

vonqkilla
10-17-2011, 08:26 PM
Holy @$&# this forum sucks.

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 08:29 PM
::)

Call me when you actually have something to complain about.

FFS, you can walk outside and get a LOT more racism to complain about than in his effing post, that's for sure.



No, I certainly don't. Nor do I think it has any bearing on anything. Yet I might absolutely refer to you as a female mod.

This is a pointless discussion. You guys are HYPER sensitive and a part of the problem, imo. And yes, I'm dead serious.

I'm not going to get offended if you refer to me as a female mod. And I personally don't think my football takes are inherently marginalized because of my gender... but there are some posters in cyberspace who have made it clear that they do, indeed, believe that it's impossible to have both boobs and brains. There is a stereotype that says all females need to have a male explain all nuances of the game of football to them because they're incapable of "getting it". I rather enjoy meeting (in person) guys like this. And pwning them. ;D

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 08:36 PM
I'm not going to get offended if you refer to me as a female mod. And I personally don't think my football takes are inherently marginalized because of my gender... but there are some posters in cyberspace who have made it clear that they do, indeed, believe that it's impossible to have both boobs and brains. There is a stereotype that says all females need to have a male explain all nuances of the game of football to them because they're incapable of "getting it". I rather enjoy meeting (in person) guys like this. And pwning them. ;D

......yet you were unable to isolate that and just answer the question I asked you?

And has Agammemnon done that with black people? If not, why are people reading WAY too into his post because of one word used as an adjective?

Christ people... he called a black guy black and people are crying racism? Real racism doesn't go away from the PC movement. It goes away from discussing things openly. Witch hunting someone for stating a fact doesn't create an environment conducive to open and honest discussion to make progress with the actual issue you and Max are complaining about... in fact it does quite the opposite.

So I'll tell you what:

You and Max are racist.

Ridiculous? Yup. But guess what? I have more evidence to that end than you two do crucifying Agammemnon.

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 08:43 PM
......yet you were unable to isolate that and just answer the question I asked you?

And has Agammemnon done that with black people? If not, why are people reading WAY too into his post because of one word used as an adjective?

Christ people... he called a black guy black and people are crying racism? Real racism doesn't go away from the PC movement. It goes away from discussing things openly. Witch hunting someone for stating a fact doesn't create an environment conducive to open and honest discussion to make progress with the actual issue you and Max are complaining about... in fact it does quite the opposite.

So I'll tell you what:

You and Max are racist.

Ridiculous? Yup. But guess what? I have more evidence to that end than you two do crucifying Agammemnon.

How many times do I have to answer your question? (think I already did 3 times...)

If the fact that Cam Newton is black was/is not significant to Agamemnon, then why did he mention it (when it wasn't relevant to the point he was trying to make?)

Hey, I'm not "crucifying" Agamemnon... just saying that (IMHO) "he is a mobile QB with a good arm" was a perfectly adequate characterization for Cam Newton in explaining why he was drafted where he was.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 08:50 PM
How many times do I have to answer your question? (think I already did 3 times...)

If the fact that Cam Newton is black was/is not significant to Agamemnon, then why did he mention it (when it wasn't relevant to the point he was trying to make?)

Hey, I'm not "crucifying" Agamemnon... just saying that (IMHO) "he is a mobile QB with a good arm" was a perfectly adequate characterization for Cam Newton in explaining why he was drafted where he was.

"I'm not going to get offended if you refer to me as a female mod" was the FIRST time you answered the question. The rest of the time you dodged it by listing an irrelevant history of being criticized for being a female. Had nothing to do with a straight forward question.

As for the rest of your post:

Whatever, racist.

(is that fair? :wiggle: )

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 08:52 PM
"I'm not going to get offended if you refer to me as a female mod" was the FIRST time you answered the question. The rest of the time you dodged it by listing an irrelevant history of being criticized for being a female. Had nothing to do with a straight forward question.

As for the rest of your post:

Whatever, racist.

(is that fair? :wiggle: )

Meh... I'm unfazed. (been called far worse). *shrug* ;)

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 08:55 PM
Meh... I'm unfazed. (been called far worse). *shrug* ;)

And I'm sure Cam has been called worse than a "mobile black QB with a good arm".

Oh the humanity!

If that's being racist, someone be racist to me so I feel even better.

baja
10-17-2011, 08:57 PM
ban him for slander. ;D

bowtown
10-17-2011, 08:58 PM
And I'm sure Cam has been called worse than a "mobile black QB with a good arm".

Oh the humanity!

If that's being racist, someone be racist to me so I feel even better.

Cracker-Faced Cracker.

Sorry, got a little over-excited, did I miss the point?

Dr. Broncenstein
10-17-2011, 08:59 PM
My mom says there are a lot of mobile quarterbacks in Africa.

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 09:01 PM
Cracker-Faced Cracker.

Sorry, got a little over-excited, did I miss the point?

Can't respond. On the phone with NAACP.




...but seriously, I'm going to refer to any black QB as "black QB _____ [insert QB name]" from this moment on.

Blueflame
10-17-2011, 09:02 PM
And I'm sure Cam has been called worse than a "mobile black QB with a good arm".

Oh the humanity!

If that's being racist, someone be racist to me so I feel even better.

Cam very well might have been offended by the remark in its full context.

But back to topic (this segue has pretty much run its course)... Trade Orton to the Raiders?

TheReverend
10-17-2011, 09:03 PM
Cam very well might have been offended by the remark in its full context.

Oh Jesus Christ Ha!

I'm out of here.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-17-2011, 09:03 PM
Cam very well might have been offended by the remark in its full context.

But back to topic (this segue has pretty much run its course)... Trade Orton to the Raiders?

The place with the BLACK HOLE?

baja
10-17-2011, 09:05 PM
Oh Jesus Christ Ha!

I'm out of here.


Good job Blue!

bowtown
10-17-2011, 09:05 PM
In other news, Mexican QB, Mark Sanchez played better tonight.

McDman
10-17-2011, 09:07 PM
In other news, Mexican QB, Mark Sanchez played better tonight.

Hahahaha.

baja
10-17-2011, 09:08 PM
In other news, Mexican QB, Mark Sanchez played better tonight.

You got something against beaners?

Dr. Broncenstein
10-17-2011, 09:08 PM
In other news, Mexican QB, Mark Sanchez played better tonight.

http://item.slide.com/r/1/180/i/jaBPR-Tf4T8oZ-uIPCPRAJvHW2NLaBFc/

Sanchez wasn't afraid to mix it up and get dirty.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 10:11 PM
LOL at the reaction to my referring to Cam Newton's race. That's awesome. If anyone thinks race isn't still a part of player assessment, even if its only on a subconscious level they are crazy. Period. If you don't think an athletic black QB is perceived differently than an athletic white QB you are not living in the real world.

Next up, people will be claiming they never made note of Hillis being a white running back. Hilarious!

baja
10-17-2011, 10:12 PM
LOL at the reaction to my referring to Cam Newton's race. That's awesome. If anyone thinks race isn't still a part of player assessment, even if its only on a subconscious level they are crazy. Period. If you don't think an athletic black QB is perceived differently than an athletic white QB you are not living in the real world.

Next up, people will be claiming they never made note of Hillis being a white running back. Hilarious!

Next you will be saying blacks make up 80% of the NFLPA while only 20% of the general population.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 10:21 PM
I think Max's point is that Agamemnon's post (with a single word omitted):

"Cam Newton was drafted as high as he was because he is a mobile QB with a good arm, and those have a history of being drafted high."

... would have made the point just fine. Agamemnon didn't need to add the word that specified skin color...

Yes I did. That was central to my point. Michael Vick, Vince Young, etc. I can't think of a lot of scrambling, white QBs being picked high in the 1st round can you? This PC **** is such garbage. My calling him black is not a bad thing. It's not racist. It simply points out a trait that is readily apparent and easily likened to other players. People compare Newton to Vick and Young all the time, but they rarely do the same with Tebow. Are you telling me that is purely coincidental? Come on now. Who does Tebow get compared to most often (at least when people are being positive)? Steve Young.

Go look at scouting reports sometime. Players are rarely compared to players of a different race in those. It happens sometimes, but not often.

You people are delusional PC nutjobs who don't live in reality. That's all I can say honestly.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 10:27 PM
Next you will be saying blacks make up 80% of the NFLPA while only 20% of the general population.

Serious question. Do you honestly believe that the NFL is color blind? Do you honestly believe that a white WR with the same exact measurables as a black WR are perceived as equal prospects in scouting reports? This isn't even about racism. It's about prejudism and preconceived notions. Players of different races are perceived differently at different positions and are almost always compared to other players of the same race even when a player of a different race is more similar. Do you think Eric Decker would constantly be compared to Eddie Mac if he weren't white? Because I can honestly say watching him play I just don't see it. He doesn't move the same way. He doesn't catch the same way. And he sure as hell doesn't block the same way. In fact, I'd say he plays more like Rod Smith than Ed McCaffrey honestly.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 10:33 PM
And to anyone claiming I'm racist because I'm being honest get over yourself.

My best friend in high school was mexican. My best friend in college was black. I fell head over heels in love with a woman who was a black korean mix once.

I'm just being honest. Get over it.

baja
10-17-2011, 11:21 PM
Serious question. Do you honestly believe that the NFL is color blind? Do you honestly believe that a white WR with the same exact measurables as a black WR are perceived as equal prospects in scouting reports? This isn't even about racism. It's about prejudism and preconceived notions. Players of different races are perceived differently at different positions and are almost always compared to other players of the same race even when a player of a different race is more similar. Do you think Eric Decker would constantly be compared to Eddie Mac if he weren't white? Because I can honestly say watching him play I just don't see it. He doesn't move the same way. He doesn't catch the same way. And he sure as hell doesn't block the same way. In fact, I'd say he plays more like Rod Smith than Ed McCaffrey honestly.

I'd say anyone that says they are color blind is a lier. We all have some level of societal induced prejudice. When you offer your friendship with a black man as proof of your lack of prejudice that in it self is a racist statement.

Best to except the truth and work from there.

Que
10-17-2011, 11:32 PM
I fell head over heels in love with a woman who was a black korean mix once.


Still talking about that night of power boozing where you thought Hines Ward was a chick huh?

;)

extralife
10-17-2011, 11:39 PM
Go look at scouting reports sometime. Players are rarely compared to players of a different race in those. It happens sometimes, but not often.

You people are delusional PC nutjobs who don't live in reality. That's all I can say honestly.

so you're saying that this happens, giving evidence of it, more or less explaining why it is bad--and then doing it anyway and getting mad?

ok.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 11:51 PM
I'd say anyone that says they are color blind is a lier. We all have some level of societal induced prejudice. When you offer your friendship with a black man as proof of your lack of prejudice that in it self is a racist statement.

Best to except the truth and work from there.

And this is the problem with our society when it comes to race. This notion that a person noticing race, or commenting on it in any way, is inherently racist is poisonous to be honest. To say that me saying "I had a friend of x race" is racist is so absurd I'm really not sure what to say. To me it's not much different than saying I had a friend that had red hair. It's a fact that I'm aware of. It's a trait that defines their physical appearance. Therefore I'll state it if it's pertinent to a conversation. I certainly don't talk about my friends as "my black friend" or my "mexican friend" in casual conversation.

At the same time to pretend that race doesn't affect societal (in this case NFL) tendencies is silly. I see clearly how players of different races are treated in the NFL depending on the position they play. And I'm simply stating what I see. Some positions and play styles are skewed towards black players and others toward white players. Players of a race not perceived to be the norm for a given position or play style usually have a tougher time getting the same looks. White wide receivers. White cornerbacks. Or black pocket passers. And honestly it's not racism in the traditional sense of the word. What it is expectation based on previous experience.

And one of the prime examples is QB. The established pattern with QBs is that black QBs are supposed to be scramblers and great athletes who can throw the ball too, while white QBs are supposed to be pocket passers who may or may not have mobility to escape the pass rush. There are exceptions mind you, but the pattern is set in most peoples' minds. So when two QBs show the same skill set but are of a different race much of what is used to assess them is based off these preconceived notions--usually based off of existing NFL players. Mobile, scrambling QBs who are black are generally compared to Vick if they are considered elite prospects. Or to Kordell Stewart or the like if they are seen as pure athlete with little potential as a QB. Mobile, scrambling QBs who are white? Well to be honest there isn't any precedent for that other than Steve Young and he struggled for a good portion of his career. Sure there have been white QBs that were pocket passers with escapability, but a QB that runs as much or more than he throws in college? No one knows what to do with that.

And really race is just one aspect of this phenomena. Players with idiosyncratic or unique styles or quirks are generally frowned upon because they don't fit the mold of successful players of the past. On the other hand a player that plays and looks like a HoF great is automatically seen as an elite prospect. In fact, many scouting reports have a section dedicated solely to coming up with the closest NFL analog to the prospect in question. And though I personally think it's ridiculous, race is often a major part of those comparisons. Like I said before you'll rarely see players of different races compared to each other in scouting reports. That's not a coincidence.

Just open your eyes and look. It's easy to see.

WABronco
10-17-2011, 11:55 PM
My mom says there are a lot of mobile quarterbacks in Africa.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/4760553/funny-picture-cat-picture-ehpien-cat_large.jpg

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 12:01 AM
so you're saying that this happens, giving evidence of it, more or less explaining why it is bad--and then doing it anyway and getting mad?

ok.

Huh? I'm saying that it happens. I'm not drafting or assessing players. I'm just pointing out that it happens.

The Cam Newton/Tim Tebow thing is pretty much the perfect example. Cam Newton has has better looking throwing motion. I'll admit it. But outside that for one to be drafted #1 overall with a general lack of criticism and the other to be drafted #25 to the overwhelming ridicule of many in the media, I really can't imagine what else it could be. They both played in spread option offenses. Neither took snaps from under center. Neither had any clue how to read pro style offenses coming out of college. Yet the disparity in how they have been treated as prospects is drastic. I mean these guys are pretty much the same player, and no one can say otherwise. The explanation is pretty obvious to me. Pointing it out, is not endorsing it. It's simply pointing it out.

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 12:02 AM
Still talking about that night of power boozing where you thought Hines Ward was a chick huh?

;)

Okay now that is ****ing funny. Hilarious!

baja
10-18-2011, 12:17 AM
Here is one definition of racism;

"1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others"


Do you believe this is a true statement?

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 12:23 AM
Here is one definition of racism;

"1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others"


Do you believe this is a true statement?

No I don't. Have you actually read my posts?

baja
10-18-2011, 12:33 AM
No I don't. Have you actually read my posts?

I do, does that make me a racist?

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 12:39 AM
I do, does that make me a racist?

Nope just a troll. But don't worry, I'm not racist against trolls.

baja
10-18-2011, 12:47 AM
Not trolling. I do believe we are all racist to some degree. Not necessarily in a bad way. I think most of us try not to be but we are.

Do you think Jimmie the Greek was a racist?

Should he have lost his job for what he said?

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 01:04 AM
Not trolling. I do believe we are all racist to some degree. Not necessarily in a bad way. I think most of us try not to be but we are.

Do you think Jimmie the Greek was a racist?

Should he have lost his job for what he said?

I think we are all prejudiced, racially or otherwise. Racism is an ideology though. It's a belief that one race is better than another, or at the very least that there are intrinsic differences beyond certain physical characteristics.

The Jimmy the Greek thing I had to look up, and honestly I can't say whether his comments were racist or simply ignorant. Truthfully I don't necessarily believe that the notion that some black people have a slight genetic tendency towards being faster or more athletic in certain ways to be all that racist. But the way he said it, and the ridiculous explanations he posits, are pretty bad. Genetics make allowance for differences in height, build, and natural body fat percentage, etc. depending on race, so the notion that certain peoples' might be slightly faster or stronger on average isn't all that far-fetched to me. The notion that such things might make one race inherently superior to another on the other hand is pretty freaking silly.

baja
10-18-2011, 01:30 AM
I think we are all prejudiced, racially or otherwise. Racism is an ideology though. It's a belief that one race is better than another, or at the very least that there are intrinsic differences beyond certain physical characteristics.

The Jimmy the Greek thing I had to look up, and honestly I can't say whether his comments were racist or simply ignorant. Truthfully I don't necessarily believe that the notion that some black people have a slight genetic tendency towards being faster or more athletic in certain ways to be all that racist. But the way he said it, and the ridiculous explanations he posits, are pretty bad. Genetics make allowance for differences in height, build, and natural body fat percentage, etc. depending on race, so the notion that certain peoples' might be slightly faster or stronger on average isn't all that far-fetched to me. The notion that such things might make one race inherently superior to another on the other hand is pretty freaking silly.

You see I'm not trolling. We are both racist, at least we can admit it. I don't like that about myself but I have to except the truth and work on it. This is the elephant in the room I mentioned in a previous post. We cover it up with extreem political correctness but it is there in almost all of us I believe.

baja
10-18-2011, 01:32 AM
Maximus is correct yours was a racist slip.

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 01:42 AM
I give up. Either you can't comprehend what I've been saying, or you simply refuse to.

It wasn't a slip, and it wasn't racist. It was a non-PC statement referring to the only possible explanation for why Newton was drafted #1 and no one said much, and Tebow was drafted at #25 and everyone went off the deep end. They are nearly identical players of different race who are treated completely differently. It's either race or Tebow's religion. It certainly isn't their abilities as football players. I tend to think it's race, seeing as there have been many devout Christian players who have never received any kind of serious hate for their religion.

Seriously dude, I really don't get how you think I was admitting to racism. Go back and read that definition you posted. If you have a belief in the inherent superiority of one race over another, that's your business. Don't drag me into it.

baja
10-18-2011, 01:52 AM
I give up. Either you can't comprehend what I've been saying, or you simply refuse to.

It wasn't a slip, and it wasn't racist. <b> It was a non-PC statement referring to the only possible explanation for why Newton was drafted #1 and no one said much, and Tebow was drafted at #25 and everyone went off the deep end.</b> They are nearly identical players of different race who are treated completely differently. It's either race or Tebow's religion. It certainly isn't their abilities as football players. I tend to think it's race, seeing as there have been many devout Christian players who have never received any kind of serious hate for their religion.

Seriously dude, I really don't get how you think I was admitting to racism. Go back and read that definition you posted. If you have a belief in the inherent superiority of one race over another, that's your business. Don't drag me into it.

If what you say is true shouldn't it be the other way around considering it is the QB position we are talking about?

Doggcow
10-18-2011, 02:26 AM
A lot of times people confuse stereotyping and racism. I was waiting in line for a football game once, I had set my new sunglasses on a table (where they check bags and stuff), and a group of "Event Staff" people walked by. I didn't notice for about a minute and looked down and couldn't find my sunglasses. I looked down the side of the Stadium, and one of the Event Staff people was walking and looking at them in his hand. I immediately started yelling at the staff in front of us, "He stole my glasses" and my friends saw it too, the supervisor asked me who, and it was the only African American of the group of about 20...


I got my sunglasses back, he lost his job.

Stereotypes are real, and grounded in facts, they doesn't make you racist.

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 02:35 AM
If what you say is true shouldn't it be the other way around considering it is the QB position we are talking about?

Okay you clearly didn't read my other posts. Tebow is a white QB that plays more like what many people think a black QB plays like. Guys like Vick make that acceptable for black QBs, but with Tebow people just don't buy it, not in the NFL. If he doesn't look like a traditional pocket passer, he's not any good. Why? Because he's white, and white QBs are supposed to be pocket passers first and foremost. It's pretty freaking obvious. I actually can't believe I'm having to explain this. It's so out there for everyone to see.

This gets reversed with black QBs. More traditional pocket passing QBs that are black often simply get blown off, and rarely even get a chance to play QB at all. This happens from High School on up. If you're a black QB you are expected to be a scrambling dynamo that can beat people with your arm, but only after you've beaten them with your legs.

This isn't about the traditional QB racism of the past (you know, the "only white men are smart enough to play QB" crap). It's about preconceived notions of what a QB should look like based on his race.

White QB = pocket passer who may or may not have some athleticism and escapability

Black QB = scrambler and athlete that opens up the passing game due to his threat as a runner

I may be wrong, but from everything I've ever seen, including watching them both play a fair bit in college and the pros, it just looks like Tebow is the victim of being a white guy that plays QB like what people think a black guy should play QB like. Cam Newton is black, so people just shrug their shoulders and say "Wow, a bigger, slower Mike Vick, he's going to be good."

It's about preconceived notions and how they shape peoples' perceptions, pure and simple.

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 02:44 AM
A lot of times people confuse stereotyping and racism. I was waiting in line for a football game once, I had set my new sunglasses on a table (where they check bags and stuff), and a group of "Event Staff" people walked by. I didn't notice for about a minute and looked down and couldn't find my sunglasses. I looked down the side of the Stadium, and one of the Event Staff people was walking and looking at them in his hand. I immediately started yelling at the staff in front of us, "He stole my glasses" and my friends saw it too, the supervisor asked me who, and it was the only African American of the group of about 20...


I got my sunglasses back, he lost his job.

Stereotypes are real, and grounded in facts, they doesn't make you racist.

So he stole your sunglasses because he was black? Is that what you are saying? Sorry but that actually is a racist sentiment. Whoever he was, whatever his personal circumstances were, that was what led him to stealing your sunglasses. Not the color of his skin.

Racial stereotypes are the very definition of racism because they rob individuals of their individuality and instead lump them into a group of "others" who inevitably have negative traits and behaviors that must be avoided or extreme cases purged.

The Nazis propagated every Jewish stereotype in the book in an effort to pave the way for their extermination.

bowtown
10-18-2011, 04:18 AM
A lot of times people confuse stereotyping and racism. I was waiting in line for a football game once, I had set my new sunglasses on a table (where they check bags and stuff), and a group of "Event Staff" people walked by. I didn't notice for about a minute and looked down and couldn't find my sunglasses. I looked down the side of the Stadium, and one of the Event Staff people was walking and looking at them in his hand. I immediately started yelling at the staff in front of us, "He stole my glasses" and my friends saw it too, the supervisor asked me who, and it was the only African American of the group of about 20...


I got my sunglasses back, he lost his job.

Stereotypes are real, and grounded in facts, they doesn't make you racist.

Pssst, stereotyping is racist, and so is your story above.

jhns
10-18-2011, 06:09 AM
Not trolling. I do believe we are all racist to some degree. Not necessarily in a bad way. I think most of us try not to be but we are.

Do you think Jimmie the Greek was a racist?

Should he have lost his job for what he said?

You should realize that you are only speaking for your generation...

Ray Finkle
10-18-2011, 06:19 AM
Pssst, stereotyping is racist, and so is your story above.

stereotyping is not racist, judging all people on said stereotypes is racist.

For example, my sister hits every Italian stereotype in the book. Claiming all Italians fit those stereotypes is racist....

GreatBronco16
10-18-2011, 06:33 AM
So if the roles were reversed, and it was Tebow taken #1 overall, and Cam taken around 25th or so, do you think we would see an outlash of comments from the 'black' community saying that Tebow went 1st because he is white and is considered a good ole christian boy while Cam isn't because of his problems in college?

I believe people would be attacking it and bringing it up in a more harsh tone.

bowtown
10-18-2011, 06:35 AM
stereotyping is not racist, judging all people on said stereotypes is racist.

For example, my sister hits every Italian stereotype in the book. Claiming all Italians fit those stereotypes is racist....

Judging people on sterotypes is stereotyping.

jhns
10-18-2011, 06:37 AM
So if the roles were reversed, and it was Tebow taken #1 overall, and Cam taken around 25th or so, do you think we would see an outlash of comments from the 'black' community saying that Tebow went 1st because he is white and is considered a good ole christian boy while Cam isn't because of his problems in college?

I believe people would be attacking it and bringing it up in a more harsh tone.

Of course. There wrre claims that the media were racist for questioning Cam in the offseason. The claim was that white QBs don't get questioned like that. What is funny is, every critisism of Cam, plus a ton more, have been directed at Tebow. People look for drama. It is how most humans work. Just look at what is on TV...

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/03/warren-moon-criticism-of-cam-newton-is-blatant-racism/1

baja
10-18-2011, 06:50 AM
Okay you clearly didn't read my other posts. Tebow is a white QB that plays more like what many people think a black QB plays like. Guys like Vick make that acceptable for black QBs, but with Tebow people just don't buy it, not in the NFL. If he doesn't look like a traditional pocket passer, he's not any good. Why? Because he's white, and white QBs are supposed to be pocket passers first and foremost. It's pretty freaking obvious. I actually can't believe I'm having to explain this. It's so out there for everyone to see.

This gets reversed with black QBs. More traditional pocket passing QBs that are black often simply get blown off, and rarely even get a chance to play QB at all. This happens from High School on up. If you're a black QB you are expected to be a scrambling dynamo that can beat people with your arm, but only after you've beaten them with your legs.

This isn't about the traditional QB racism of the past (you know, the "only white men are smart enough to play QB" crap). It's about preconceived notions of what a QB should look like based on his race.

White QB = pocket passer who may or may not have some athleticism and escapability

Black QB = scrambler and athlete that opens up the passing game due to his threat as a runner

I may be wrong, but from everything I've ever seen, including watching them both play a fair bit in college and the pros, it just looks like Tebow is the victim of being a white guy that plays QB like what people think a black guy should play QB like. Cam Newton is black, so people just shrug their shoulders and say "Wow, a bigger, slower Mike Vick, he's going to be good."

It's about preconceived notions and how they shape peoples' perceptions, pure and simple.

Oh OK I see. You are correct I did not read all the posts and did not get the point you were trying to make.

Is stereotyping a race racist?

baja
10-18-2011, 06:54 AM
You should realize that you are only speaking for your generation...

I agree that I am probably somewhat out of touch with the 20 to 30 something folks but I doubt racial attitudes have changed that much. Do you think they have?

jhns
10-18-2011, 07:07 AM
I agree that I am probably somewhat out of touch with the 20 to 30 something folks but I doubt racial attitudes have changed that much. Do you think they have?

A lot, if the people in Nebraska are a good indication of everywhere. I have met a ton of openly racist older people and pretty much none my age. I say pretty much because I know a couple of guys that went to prison and came out extremely racist. I don't see race as an issue, but I also grew up with all races and everyone was always treated equally. My generation wasn't screwed as children by horrible examples.

It is crazy how many older white guys will get really racist as soon as there are only white people in the room though. I didn't see it as a kid but it is everywhere now. I was at a gas station and the white clerk was being real nice to the black couple buying some stuff. The second they walked out the door, it was "those n bombs are screwing our country! It used to be so much better here!" It makes me laugh and cry at the same time. It happens a ton here.

I would bet you find a lot more racists my age in the country though. People that weren't raised with other races are probably more likley to be racist.

maven
10-18-2011, 11:09 AM
**** you Orton!!!!!! For not being worth a **** on the open market! **** you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheReverend
10-18-2011, 11:37 AM
How do people feel about taking a look at Jew QB Sage Rosenfels?

bendog
10-18-2011, 11:38 AM
Jesus Christ, poor Tim's a victim, a victim I tell you, of being a white christian in a black athlete's body, I think taking a Jew would initiate a hate crime.

Agamemnon
10-18-2011, 12:35 PM
Jesus Christ, poor Tim's a victim, a victim I tell you, of being a white christian in a black athlete's body, I think taking a Jew would initiate a hate crime.

It's not about victimhood. Get over yourself. Tebow has an unconventional style for a white QB and is therefore the recipient of more skepticism than black QBs that are similar to him. He's still getting a chance. It's not the end of the world. It's just a difference that is pretty obvious to anyone who has the sense to understand that even white people are seen through the lens of preconception. In the world in general that's often to their benefit. In the sports world it's often not. It's pretty freaking obvious honestly.

bowtown
10-18-2011, 12:40 PM
How do people feel about taking a look at Jew QB Sage Rosenfels?

He already plays for the Cuban Miami Dolphins.

TheReverend
10-18-2011, 12:56 PM
He already plays for the Cuban Miami Dolphins.

That sucks. How's the depth looking on the Mexican Illegally Immigrated San Diego Chargers?