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BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 04:30 AM
"I don't know how they'll do as far as wins, but I can tell you they won't be disappointed in him,'' said Jabar Gaffney, the Redskins veteran receiver who played with and caught passes from Tebow last year in Denver, where he went 1-2 as the Broncos starter in the last three games of the season. "You won't find a guy who's going to work harder out there and compete any harder than Tim. Last year I got to play with him as a rookie, and I got to work out with him a couple times over this past offseason.

"I could just see in our workouts that he was a bit more poised over the offseason. He changed up his throwing a little bit, and he was getting rid of the ball a lot quicker and making some great throws. I'm excited myself to see how he does out there actually. Because from playing with him last year, and working out with him this year, it was like night and day. You could see that confidence inside of him, like he's ready to play now.''

Gaffney believes he knows. He's been at the other end of a Tebow spiral, and that's something no TV analyst can match at the moment.
"Man, that dude can make every throw out there,'' said Gaffney, who, like Tebow, starred at the University of Florida. " It may not always be pretty, but he can make every throw out there and he can throw just as far as any quarterback in the league. So there's definitely no question about his arm strength.
"As a receiver, it gives you a little bit of extra confidence in knowing he will keep a play alive with his feet. You can never stop on a route, because he gets out of some stuff and he'll throw it to you. Whereas in most cases, you'll look back and you'll be like, 'Oh, man, the quarterback's sacked.' Not with Tebow. He'll come out of it somehow, because he keeps plays alive. As a receiver, you've just always got to stay ready for him.''

Ray Finkle
10-14-2011, 06:09 AM
He's a good guy. Ran into him in Reston a few weeks ago, good guy. Of course it's the one day I go grab lunch and don't have my phone with me for a pic.

El Guapo
10-14-2011, 07:16 AM
He's a good guy. Ran into him in Reston a few weeks ago, good guy. Of course it's the one day I go grab lunch and don't have my phone with me for a pic.

Awesome, guess I need to start hanging around there more often. :thumbsup: The town center?

McDman
10-14-2011, 07:20 AM
He looked worse coming in from the off season. That was the big knock on him.

TheReverend
10-14-2011, 07:28 AM
He looked worse coming in from the off season. That was the big knock on him.

Or so some assumed.

TonyR
10-14-2011, 07:30 AM
He looked worse coming in from the off season.

I think it was more that he just didn't look any better. Same glaring mechanical flaws. I think the expectation was that he'd look more ready and polished and ready to take over as starter.

TotallyScrewed
10-14-2011, 07:35 AM
He looked worse coming in from the off season. That was the big knock on him.

Yeah, but we've got no proof, except that Orton was the starter. And we all know that Orton starting has nothing to do with how well or not so well Tebow was playing. This "he looked worse" is a media myth.

Let's not believe the receiver who worked with Tebow not only for the last three games but over the offseason...who BTW has nothing to gain or lose due to his comments.

And oops...there goes the "Tim did nothing to improve. He only pimped his book".

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 07:44 AM
He looked worse coming in from the off season. That was the big knock on him.

And just how much perspective (on Tebow) could Gaffney possibly have had considering that he was traded to Washington on the first day training camp opened (July 27)?

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/27/2297961/denver-broncos-trade-jabar-gaffney-to-washington-redskins

I'm sure Gaffney couldn't possibly have been biased in favor of a fellow Gator.

jhns
10-14-2011, 07:58 AM
And just how much perspective (on Tebow) could Gaffney possibly have had considering that he was traded to Washington on the first day training camp opened (July 27)?

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/27/2297961/denver-broncos-trade-jabar-gaffney-to-washington-redskins

I'm sure Gaffney couldn't possibly have been biased in favor of a fellow Gator.

He played with him last season. He worked out with him in the offseason. I would say he has great perspective.

Others, like Lloyd, agreed that Tebow was getting better in the offseason. The mistake is comparing him to a 7 year vet that knew the offense so well, in training camp. Of course he isn't going to look better in that situation. Tebow scrambles around and sheds guys. You can't do that in training camp and he obviously isn't as polished of a thrower.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Brandon-Lloyd-working-out-with-Tim-Tebow.html'

In the wake of his breakthrough season last year, Denver Broncos Pro Bowl wide receiver Brandon Lloyd recently worked out with quarterback Tim Tebow in Florida.

ďI thought it was good," Lloyd told 104.3 in Denver, per SportsRadioInterviews.com. "Itís better for morale going into the season when you see how good of shape guys are in. Itís kind of like, I want to see where dudeís at with his training and guys want to see where weíre at so we have some confidence going into the season. Thatís how I took it. It was good to see that Timís improving on his drops, heís improving on his timing, and within the first day we got into rhythm, within the first 20 minutes of it. ..

GreatBronco16
10-14-2011, 08:05 AM
And just how much perspective (on Tebow) could Gaffney possibly have had considering that he was traded to Washington on the first day training camp opened (July 27)?

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/27/2297961/denver-broncos-trade-jabar-gaffney-to-washington-redskins

I'm sure Gaffney couldn't possibly have been biased in favor of a fellow Gator.

LOL, the hate is strong in this one.

MacGruder
10-14-2011, 08:08 AM
I think people are making a big mistake by thinking Tebow didn't work hard enough to improve in the off season.. it is much more likely he tried TOO hard to change things and be perfect.

Joe Montana was interviewed recently and said it was a big no-no to try to mess with his mechanics.. especially since he didn't really need to change them. He had proven himself against SEC defenses playing 4 years and had great success.

I suspect Tebow was trying to be too perfect to silence his critics.. which is why fox said Tebow was trying to be too perfect at the beginning of training camp.. probably sacrificing his passes to have perfect fundamentals..

Mike Holmgren and Jim Harbaugh also said he never should have changed his throwing motion.

bendog
10-14-2011, 08:12 AM
And just how much perspective (on Tebow) could Gaffney possibly have had considering that he was traded to Washington on the first day training camp opened (July 27)?

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/27/2297961/denver-broncos-trade-jabar-gaffney-to-washington-redskins

I'm sure Gaffney couldn't possibly have been biased in favor of a fellow Gator.

or a grudge against EFX ... though he should thank them since he's got a real shot at the playoffs

Ray Finkle
10-14-2011, 08:20 AM
Awesome, guess I need to start hanging around there more often. :thumbsup: The town center?

yes, a lot of the guys live around there or in Ashburn. I saw Fat Al there a lot but thought better than speak to him. He lived at Jackson's in the town center.

McDman
10-14-2011, 08:59 AM
I think people are making a big mistake by thinking Tebow didn't work hard enough to improve in the off season.. it is much more likely he tried TOO hard to change things and be perfect.

Joe Montana was interviewed recently and said it was a big no-no to try to mess with his mechanics.. especially since he didn't really need to change them. He had proven himself against SEC defenses playing 4 years and had great success.

I suspect Tebow was trying to be too perfect to silence his critics.. which is why fox said Tebow was trying to be too perfect at the beginning of training camp.. probably sacrificing his passes to have perfect fundamentals..

Mike Holmgren and Jim Harbaugh also said he never should have changed his throwing motion.

He didn't hire a personal throwing coach in the off season, how did he work too hard? Maybe he worked out in the weight room but his mechanics didn't look any better, if not worse.

I don't care what anyone says, if you watched him in the preseason objectively his mechanics did not improve at all.

McDman
10-14-2011, 09:00 AM
Yeah, but we've got no proof, except that Orton was the starter. And we all know that Orton starting has nothing to do with how well or not so well Tebow was playing. This "he looked worse" is a media myth.

Let's not believe the receiver who worked with Tebow not only for the last three games but over the offseason...who BTW has nothing to gain or lose due to his comments.

And oops...there goes the "Tim did nothing to improve. He only pimped his book".

The people who said he looked worse are local media, not these ESPN jackoffs. They don't have it out for Tebow, they just report what they've seen.

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 09:02 AM
Mcdman. If you didnt see an improvement of Tebow from last preseason to this years preseason, then it is you that hasnt watched objectively.

I know a person like you is so smart and we are all just blithering idiots.

God bless.

Oh and another thing. If you think Orton gave this team the best chance to win and if you think there was any improvement in his game, then perhaps it is you that werent paying attention.

Do you think that is a possibility?

Yeah, Tebow has a tough time with certain things. You gonna include the horrible underthrown balls by Orton? The 7 picks? The pick 6? The dropped fumble? The fact he is the 28th rated QB? The constant 3 and outs? The inability to extend plays? All of the factors we said he didnt do and couldnt be really judged in shorts, red shirts and 7 on 7 drills?


Cause if you are gonna only rip Tebow for his short comings, dont include all of things he does that generates points, then may be you are stuck in your own biased pov? No? Yeah? Maybe?

MacGruder
10-14-2011, 09:10 AM
He didn't hire a personal throwing coach in the off season, how did he work too hard? Maybe he worked out in the weight room but his mechanics didn't look any better, if not worse.

I don't care what anyone says, if you watched him in the preseason objectively his mechanics did not improve at all.

The first thing Tebow did when the season ended was to go work with his Qb coaches he worked with before he was drafted. The guys who work at the training facility he is part owner of. He went back to that D-1 training facility later during the lockout but I don't know if he specifically worked with the QB coaches or what..

I remembered at the time Tebow was working on his game when Orton was in Vegas celebrating a great season with his linemen..

And people have said they have seen the difference in his motion. Tebow never had accuracy problems before they started tinkering with his mechanics and motions..

Pick Six
10-14-2011, 09:16 AM
I hope the receivers we currently have share that same opinion. They need to be on the same page with Tebow...

McDman
10-14-2011, 09:17 AM
The first thing Tebow did when the season ended was to go work with his Qb coaches he worked with before he was drafted. The guys who work at the training facility he is part owner of. He went back to that D-1 training facility later during the lockout but I don't know if he specifically worked with the QB coaches or what..

I remembered at the time Tebow was working on his game when Orton was in Vegas celebrating a great season with his linemen..

And people have said they have seen the difference in his motion. Tebow never had accuracy problems before they started tinkering with his mechanics and motions..

You'll have to show me a link saying he went and worked with personal coaches and not just lifted weights. I haven't heard anyone say that before.

If he did have personal coaches and still looked lost in the preseason it is not a good sign.

One of his biggest problems ins his progressions, fortunately that is something he can work on.

bowtown
10-14-2011, 09:21 AM
You'll have to show me a link saying he went and worked with personal coaches and not just lifted weights. I haven't heard anyone say that before.

If he did have personal coaches and still looked lost in the preseason it is not a good sign.

One of his biggest problems ins his progressions, fortunately that is something he can work on.

Please, do you really think ultra football dork Tim Tebow didn't work on his throwing every single day of the offseason? Just rested on his laurels? That's about as easy for me to believe as telling me Champ steered clear of the 6 footer all offseason. He may not have worked with the right people, but there is absolutley no chance he wasn't working on his passing every single day.

MacGruder
10-14-2011, 09:22 AM
I am trying to find the article that came out immediately after the end of the season but here is another one I found talking about Tebow's work ethic.. and as I said.. many QB experts say you shouldn't mess with someone's motion like they did.. Tebow had enough stuff to work on.. add in the lockout and it seems like the Broncos had no workout set up for him. Have you read what the Panthers did for Cam Newton during the lockout? If not I can show you that article too. The Broncos haven't even been working with Tebow even NOW during the season.. I have heard nothing about preparing him.

Zeke Bratkowski: On Tebow (New Article)
Watch the Tebow documentary if need to know who Zeke is and role he played getting Tim ready for the draft.

Source: Rich Campbell
URL: http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/jan/...-doubts-tebow/

I rubbed my eyes and moved closer to the TV screen.

It was back in March and I was watching an ESPN story on Tim Tebow's Pro Day at Florida Field in Gainesville.

The reporter talked at length about Tebow's workout and the new throwing motion he unveiled for NFL scouts. However, my eyes were fixed on the elderly gentleman standing beside Tebow and offering coaching tips.

"Is that ... Zeke Bratkowski?" I said aloud.

Sure enough. My former quarterback coach with the Green Bay Packers looked a few years older, and a few pounds heavier, but his profile was unmistakable.

Ten months later, the Tim Tebow Experiment has completed its first year in Denver. The result? While Tebow remains a work in progress, he continues to surprise even his harshest critics.

Lest we forget, the naysayers were adamant Tebow's throwing motion was too elongated for the pro game. Others said Tebow would need to switch positions ó tight end, fullback, linebacker ó to play in the NFL. However, Tebow's performance his rookie year has muted the criticism. He completed 41 of 82 passes for 654 yards, five touchdowns and three interceptions. He also rushed 43 times for 227 yards and six touchdowns.

Recently, I called Bratkowski and asked him to evaluate the former Gators quarterback.

I quickly learned my old coach is a believer ó and not simply because he was employed for a short time to mentor Tebow.

Bratkowski, who lives in Santa Rosa Beach, worked with Tebow four times a weeks for six weeks in preparation for Pro Day. The key objective was getting Tebow to carry the ball higher and speed up his delivery.

Zeke said his young charge made significant progress on this front, though ball position and delivery remain Tebow's "biggest challenges" in the NFL.

However, Bratkowski, 79, has no doubts Tebow will succeed at quarterback. The reason? A work ethic and intensity Zeke says is "unmatched" by any football player he's ever met.

"I try to tell people how hard he works, but no one believes me," Bratkowski said. "Tim is something special. He loves challenges. I don't know where he is today or what he's doing, but he's probably in the office in Denver looking at film or working out. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a Pro Bowl one day."

My old coach should know. He counts San Diego Chargers quarterback Phillip Rivers and Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Michael Vick among many he's tutored the past 15 years.

AlphaSeirra
10-14-2011, 11:47 AM
I think it was more that he just didn't look any better. Same glaring mechanical flaws. I think the expectation was that he'd look more ready and polished and ready to take over as starter.

LOOKS are for Beauty Contests VS RESULTS are what counts most.

Looking Ready DOES NOT EQUAL Actually Being Ready.

Just like throwing a very pretty Int IS NOT AS GOOD as throwing a very ugly competion.

Same for fancy footwork that RESULTS in a sack AS OPPOSED TO stumbling around for 5-6 ypc and making 40 yard TD runs.

Losers DO NOT EQUAL Winners.

(are people really this petty/stupid?) :welcome:

AlphaSeirra
10-14-2011, 11:56 AM
He didn't hire a personal throwing coach in the off season, how did he work too hard? Maybe he worked out in the weight room but his mechanics didn't look any better, if not worse.

I don't care what anyone says, if you watched him in the preseason objectively his mechanics did not improve at all.

Preseason Results:

Quinn 69 PER with 2 Int's.

Orton 104 PER with 1 Int.

Tebow 108 PER with ZERO INTERCEPTIONS

Now, give us all the benefit of your very best and most logical 'critical' thinking on the ACTUAL ON THE FIELD RESULTS! :welcome:

PS

Currently Tebow 101.7 PER, 17.25 yds/rec, still with ZERO INTERCEPTIONS.

Mr D
10-14-2011, 12:09 PM
And just how much perspective (on Tebow) could Gaffney possibly have had considering that he was traded to Washington on the first day training camp opened (July 27)?

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/27/2297961/denver-broncos-trade-jabar-gaffney-to-washington-redskins

I'm sure Gaffney couldn't possibly have been biased in favor of a fellow Gator.

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/052011/haters-car.gif

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/052011/haters-treadmill.gif

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/052011/haters-pony.gif

McDman
10-14-2011, 02:35 PM
Preseason Results:

Quinn 69 PER with 2 Int's.

Orton 104 PER with 1 Int.

Tebow 108 PER with ZERO INTERCEPTIONS

Now, give us all the benefit of your very best and most logical 'critical' thinking on the ACTUAL ON THE FIELD RESULTS! :welcome:

PS

Currently Tebow 101.7 PER, 17.25 yds/rec, still with ZERO INTERCEPTIONS.

One of the biggest knoxks on Orton was his inflated stats last year, if you're going to throw out QB ratings then Orton deserved to start this year.

Tebow's stats looked good but go back and watch and try to tell me he looked like he knew what he was doing. He looked lost. Hell, even in the last game he did not look good.

I absolutely think he should start now, Orton is done, but you people cannot look objectively at stuff like this. I think he brings a huge spark but hearing people try to justify his poor throws and accuracy is ridiculous.

enjolras
10-14-2011, 02:35 PM
Mcdman. If you didnt see an improvement of Tebow from last preseason to this years preseason, then it is you that hasnt watched objectively.

*looks left*

So mr. Jupiter Florida, I'm guessing that you might have a bias here? Welcome to Broncos fandom, I hope that it's not a temporary distraction for you.

The reality is that Tebow did not come to camp looking very good at all. Folks here, in the local media, and the national media alike could all agree on that. i don't think he regressed, I just saw very little improvement.

I supported starting Orton because he certainly appeared to be the better option. That didn't pan out, so water under the bridge. I'm firmly behind Tebow as long as he is a Bronco. This franchise NEEDS a big break, and Tebow might very well be it. We'll find out, but don't act like Tebow came to camp and was clearly the better quarterback. To the truly objective, that just wasn't true.

The arguments for Tebow had always been more about what Orton COULDN'T do. Those people have been proven right. Orton just isn't a quality starter in the NFL. That doesn't mean Tebow will be either, no matter how much you love (as I do) the intangibles he brings.

I'm hoping for the best, and I'll be at every game rooting the kid on.

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 02:36 PM
Nah... just really don't care what a Washington Redskin has to say about the Broncos. And suspect that bias could enter into the equation due to "college affiliation" and/or butthurt over being traded. One has to consider the source when evaluating any remarks in the media.

Agamemnon
10-14-2011, 02:38 PM
One of the biggest knoxks on Orton was his inflated stats last year, if you're going to throw out QB ratings then Orton deserved to start this year.

Tebow's stats looked good but go back and watch and try to tell me he looked like he knew what he was doing. He looked lost. Hell, even in the last game he did not look good.

I absolutely think he should start now, Orton is done, but you people cannot look objectively at stuff like this. I think he brings a huge spark but hearing people try to justify his poor throws and accuracy is ridiculous.

And you seriously think you are capable of objectivity? Being a human being precludes objectivity in case you didn't know.

McDman
10-14-2011, 02:48 PM
Mcdman. If you didnt see an improvement of Tebow from last preseason to this years preseason, then it is you that hasnt watched objectively.

I know a person like you is so smart and we are all just blithering idiots.

God bless.

Oh and another thing. If you think Orton gave this team the best chance to win and if you think there was any improvement in his game, then perhaps it is you that werent paying attention.

Do you think that is a possibility?

Yeah, Tebow has a tough time with certain things. You gonna include the horrible underthrown balls by Orton? The 7 picks? The pick 6? The dropped fumble? The fact he is the 28th rated QB? The constant 3 and outs? The inability to extend plays? All of the factors we said he didnt do and couldnt be really judged in shorts, red shirts and 7 on 7 drills?


Cause if you are gonna only rip Tebow for his short comings, dont include all of things he does that generates points, then may be you are stuck in your own biased pov? No? Yeah? Maybe?

First, I'm not exactly sure why you are getting so upset over this. I never came close to calling anyone an idiot, you just made that up. Insecurity issues? No? Yes? Maybe?

Second, at the beginning of the season I thought Orton would give us the best chance to win, it is clear that that is no longer the case. Orton had a very good year last year and I thought maybe his pressure issues would hopefully have been worked out, clearly thst was not the case.

Third, I have n.o problem with Tebow. I have a problem with people on here looking at him so subjectively they don't see any of his flaws. It amazes me people can watch his games and say he looks like he knows what he is doing. If you watched the preseason and thought he looked better than last year you need a new prescription.

Lastly, it seems if you are not fully sold on him then you are against him. Just bc I am critical of does not mean I want him to fail. I would love to see him do well. He is likeable, adds a spark to this team, and has incredible work ethic. But I am not going to sit here and pretend he does not have serious problems. I am sorry you take offense to me not liking him as a QB yet, I really am.

TotallyScrewed
10-14-2011, 03:22 PM
Nah... just really don't care what a Washington Redskin has to say about the Broncos. And suspect that bias could enter into the equation due to "college affiliation" and/or butthurt over being traded. One has to consider the source when evaluating any remarks in the media.

Oh, but you're not evaluating, you're discounting out of hand because of your hypothesis: that he's a former Gator and mad at Denver and pumping up Tebow because wants to get back at the Denver FO.

Do you like (and pimp) every former player from your old school? I could understand if Tim was currently playing for Florida and a former Gator was talking about the team.

So Gaffney is butthurt over being traded and his "get even" is: Tim has improved since last year and receivers shouldn't give up on plays because you never know with Tim when a play will end. (And these are statements after the Broncos made Tim the starter).

I think your reasoning is pretty weak.

Evaluating means you're unbiased.

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 03:32 PM
First, I'm not exactly sure why you are getting so upset over this. I never came close to calling anyone an idiot, you just made that up. Insecurity issues? No? Yes? Maybe?

Second, at the beginning of the season I thought Orton would give us the best chance to win, it is clear that that is no longer the case. Orton had a very good year last year and I thought maybe his pressure issues would hopefully have been worked out, clearly thst was not the case.

Third, I have n.o problem with Tebow. I have a problem with people on here looking at him so subjectively they don't see any of his flaws. It amazes me people can watch his games and say he looks like he knows what he is doing. If you watched the preseason and thought he looked better than last year you need a new prescription.

Lastly, it seems if you are not fully sold on him then you are against him. Just bc I am critical of does not mean I want him to fail. I would love to see him do well. He is likeable, adds a spark to this team, and has incredible work ethic. But I am not going to sit here and pretend he does not have serious problems. I am sorry you take offense to me not liking him as a QB yet, I really am.

Just remarking that you have not seen any improvement. I do see it.

There are things that he will do that will make you hld your breath. It is a matter of taking the good with the bad or vice versa.

He has improved, regardless of what the reports are. I mention that you should balance it out with some of things that he does well and has done well.

The TC competition and reports have been a joke. We all should know that. He has a problem being accurate that other QBs dont, cause he has the big chest. I would suggest he leaves the bench press completely alone.

My point is Orton....hasnt improved at all. Not in any way. That is something you ought to consider. Since you were so adamant about Tebow not improving.

Do you really think Tebow never took time to work on his game this off season. Think about it. You really think al he did was play golf and go to charities and sell a book?

His ratings in comparison with preseason games from last year to this year does show improvement.

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 03:33 PM
Oh, but you're not evaluating, you're discounting out of hand because of your hypothesis: that he's a former Gator and mad at Denver and pumping up Tebow because wants to get back at the Denver FO.

Do you like (and pimp) every former player from your old school? I could understand if Tim was currently playing for Florida and a former Gator was talking about the team.

So Gaffney is butthurt over being traded and his "get even" is: Tim has improved since last year and receivers shouldn't give up on plays because you never know with Tim when a play will end. (And these are statements after the Broncos made Tim the starter).

I think your reasoning is pretty weak.

Evaluating means you're unbiased.

Meh. I applied two questions to the article:

Is it (Gaffney's opinion) relevant? (No).
Could any bias possibly be involved? (Yes, definitely).

Beyond that, it completely contradicts everything everyone else who was unbiased (reporters, OM'ers, coaches) said they personally saw in the early days of training camp.

Conclusion: Dismissed.

But your mileage may vary.

Agamemnon
10-14-2011, 03:36 PM
The TC competition and reports have been a joke. We all should know that. He has a problem being accurate that other QBs dont, cause he has the big chest. I would suggest he leaves the bench press completely alone.


It couldn't be because he's still virtually a rookie with the lack of OTAs, change in coaches, and lack of 1st team reps. No it's the weight lifting. Hilarious!

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 03:44 PM
*looks left*

So mr. Jupiter Florida, I'm guessing that you might have a bias here? Welcome to Broncos fandom, I hope that it's not a temporary distraction for you.

The reality is that Tebow did not come to camp looking very good at all. Folks here, in the local media, and the national media alike could all agree on that. i don't think he regressed, I just saw very little improvement.

I supported starting Orton because he certainly appeared to be the better option. That didn't pan out, so water under the bridge. I'm firmly behind Tebow as long as he is a Bronco. This franchise NEEDS a big break, and Tebow might very well be it. We'll find out, but don't act like Tebow came to camp and was clearly the better quarterback. To the truly objective, that just wasn't true.

The arguments for Tebow had always been more about what Orton COULDN'T do. Those people have been proven right. Orton just isn't a quality starter in the NFL. That doesn't mean Tebow will be either, no matter how much you love (as I do) the intangibles he brings.

I'm hoping for the best, and I'll be at every game rooting the kid on.

No life long Broncos fan and life long Gator hater. I hate the Gators. I went to FSU.

I walked on at FSU and graduated in 92. I really didnt play, I travelled with the team one year in 1991 to Ann Arbor. My HS football coach is now DC for the Falcons (Brian Van Gorder.)

Anyway, I use to scout HS football players. I actually scouted Alphonso Smith, who played at a local HS fairly close to me. He was a great HS player, breaking Anquan Boldins record for TDs at that school.

I am sick of the double standard and ridicule Tebow gets. I remember hearing from other scouts about Tebow during this time period. I actually remember someone saying he played on a broken leg. I thought it was an urban myth until it was confirmed.

While he looks awkward, he moves the team, and he certainly elevates the energy. It is the same as Elway. Elway had a rather low passer rating. Well, QBing is more than passing. They do a lot more than passing to contribute to wins.

WRs for Elway early on needed to get used to the fact that he didnt give up on plays and to keep running their routes. Those WRs back then were use to Craig Morton and Deberg. That is a quite the paradigm shift. Itis quite the same now imo. Orton is to Morton what Tebow is to Elway as far as extending plays. There are also intangible factors that rubs on the team and their level of play elevates. Need to take all into account.

It is put or shut up time. If the does well, my God....would that be something.

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 03:49 PM
It couldn't be because he's still virtually a rookie with the lack of OTAs, change in coaches, and lack of 1st team reps. No it's the weight lifting. Hilarious!

Did I say it was only weight lifiting? No. I think he struggles with certain passes cause of his mesomorph body type.

Almost everyone struggles with certain, simpler type of passes due to the bigger chest that QBs with out that wide chest dont struggle with.

Dont think so? You know anyone that has a build like that? Try having them throw simple pass routes, they tend to struggle a little more. It is something Tebow will need to over come. It is a frustration we will also need to accept. It will always be there at some level.

campocorto
10-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Meh. I applied two questions to the article:

Is it (Gaffney's opinion) relevant? (No).
Could any bias possibly be involved? (Yes, definitely).

Beyond that, it completely contradicts everything everyone else who was unbiased (reporters, OM'ers, coaches) said they personally saw in the early days of training camp.

Conclusion: Dismissed.

But your mileage may vary.

There are a bunch of dirty plates in the sink that need to be washed.

Dagmar
10-14-2011, 03:56 PM
So who's tiresome alt are you?

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 03:58 PM
There are a bunch of dirty plates in the sink that need to be washed.

Then make yourself useful and wash them.

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 04:01 PM
Meh. I applied two questions to the article:

Is it (Gaffney's opinion) relevant? (No).
Could any bias possibly be involved? (Yes, definitely).

Beyond that, it completely contradicts everything everyone else who was unbiased (reporters, OM'ers, coaches) said they personally saw in the early days of training camp.

Conclusion: Dismissed.

But your mileage may vary.

You dont think Jabar Gaffney's opinion is valid? Maybe you dont know this, but he is an NFL WR that played with him, caught passes from him, and worked out with him.

You don think he has any ethos but you would take the opinion of a slow FB from the Steelers in the 80s who once said......

Brohm would be better than Rodgers.

Pat White is the most important QB in the AFC east

He also said Cam Newton would never be anything inthe NFL.

Yeah, maybe you ought to consider the credibility of opinions. Dismissing a pro WR that played with him while agreeing with John Clayton is funny.

campocorto
10-14-2011, 04:04 PM
Then make yourself useful and wash them.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tWr0vKsHslM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 04:07 PM
You dont think Jabar Gaffney's opinion is valid? Maybe you dont know this, but he is an NFL WR that played with him, caught passes from him, and worked out with him.

You don think he has any ethos but you would take the opinion of a slow FB from the Steelers in the 80s who once said......

Brohm would be better than Rodgers.

Pat White is the most important QB in the AFC east

He also said Cam Newton would never be anything inthe NFL.

Yeah, maybe you ought to consider the credibility of opinions. Dismissing a pro WR that played with him while agreeing with John Clayton is funny.

I believe Gaffney's opinion on last season would be valid. But given that he was traded the first day of training camp, no I do not think his opinion of Tebow's performance this year is...

Furthermore, you're incorrect if you think the opinions of the "slow FB from the Steelers"... or John Clayton factored into my opinions whatsoever. They can think what they want to think. You're free to think what you want. And I'll form and express my opinions. It's all good.

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 04:09 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tWr0vKsHslM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:oyvey: :nutkick

Chris
10-14-2011, 04:27 PM
Is there really a place named Florida on Jupiter?

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 04:32 PM
I believe Gaffney's opinion on last season would be valid. But given that he was traded the first day of training camp, no I do not think his opinion of Tebow's performance this year is...

Furthermore, you're incorrect if you think the opinions of the "slow FB from the Steelers"... or John Clayton factored into my opinions whatsoever. They can think what they want to think. You're free to think what you want. And I'll form and express my opinions. It's all good.

Yeah, well your opinion is half baked at best. At best. I gather from your misguided arrogance who thinks his opinions are facts, that you thought Orton was the best chance for the Broncos.

Maybe you didnt.

Either way, your opinion appears to be incomplete. Of course he has things to work on however if all you do is list all of the things he doesnt do well, and go ahead simply ignore or dont acknowlege...

13TDs to 3 turnovers, averaged 25 points per game as a starter, had a 108 rating in preseason which was higher than Orton and Quinn, and had 101 rating in his half of a game and a better QBR rating than Rodgers and Brady. Snicker away.

Oh dont tell me, he only competed against 3rd teamers. First, that isnt true and even if it was, he also played WITH 3rd teamers. Either way, he couldnt have been that far behind if he ended up with the highest rating.

Does all of that mean I think he will be an automatic success? No, but it does mean that believe he can be. Oh whats the matter, my facts get the way of your half baked opinion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgGA-hHWxtA

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 04:42 PM
Yeah, well your opinion is half baked at best. At best. I gather from your misguided arrogance who thinks his opinions are facts, that you thought Orton was the best chance for the Broncos.

Maybe you didnt.

Either way, your opinion appears to be incomplete. Why? Cause if all you do is list all of the things he doesnt do well, and go ahead simply ignore or dont acknowlege...

13TDs to 3 turnovers, averaged 25 points per game as a starter, had a 108 rating in preseason which was higher than Orton and Quinn, and had 101 rating in his half of a game and a better QBR rating than Rodgers and Brady. Snicker away.

Oh dont tell me, he only competed against 3rd teamers. First, that isnt true and even if it was, he also played WITH 3rd teamers. Either way, he couldnt have been that far behind if he ended up with the highest rating.

Does all of that mean I think he will be an automatic success? No, but it does mean that believe he can be. Oh whats the matter, my facts get the way of your half baked opinion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgGA-hHWxtA

Actually I thought the coaches (you know... the people who are paid to make those decisions) should be the ones to determine which players start. I supported their decision to start Orton and I support the decision to make a change now. Orton wasn't getting it done; he is what he is: a serviceable but nothing-to-write-home-about QB. He'll be gone next year; hell it's possible that all of our QBs might be.

broncosteven
10-14-2011, 04:43 PM
And here I thought mCgoober and alpha(I misspelt my username)seirra were the same poster.

oubronco
10-14-2011, 04:49 PM
http://sadhillnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/you-see-that-its-a-kitchen-now-get-back-in-it-sad-hill-news.jpg

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 04:56 PM
Actually I thought the coaches (you know... the people who are paid to make those decisions) should be the ones to determine which players start. I supported their decision to start Orton and I support the decision to make a change now. Orton wasn't getting it done; he is what he is: a serviceable but nothing-to-write-home-about QB. He'll be gone next year; hell it's possible that all of our QBs might be.

I sure hope Tebow succeeds dont you? Yeah, of course you do.

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 05:02 PM
I sure hope Tebow succeeds dont you? Yeah, of course you do.

Yes, I do. I won't be surprised if we draft a QB next year regardless though.

Tombstone RJ
10-14-2011, 05:06 PM
Did I say it was only weight lifiting? No. I think he struggles with certain passes cause of his mesomorph body type.

Almost everyone struggles with certain, simpler type of passes due to the bigger chest that QBs with out that wide chest dont struggle with.

Dont think so? You know anyone that has a build like that? Try having them throw simple pass routes, they tend to struggle a little more. It is something Tebow will need to over come. It is a frustration we will also need to accept. It will always be there at some level.

He needs to do some yoga for flexibility. I'm not so sure he should stop lifting but he should change his routine to build stamina and not just muscle mass. High rep, low weight types of upper body conditioning.

bowtown
10-14-2011, 05:10 PM
Oh good! It's been forever since we've had a "I know how professional athletes should train better than they do" thread.

Tombstone RJ
10-14-2011, 05:15 PM
Oh good! It's been forever since we've had a "I know how professional athletes should train better than they do" thread.

bleh, working out is not rocket science and lots and lots of people work out besides pro football players... trust me on this brosef...

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 05:16 PM
Yes, I do. I won't be surprised if we draft a QB next year regardless though.

Yeah, they should keep their streak of not drafting a DT alive. That last one was Trevor Pryce.

Great, cause they sure dont need one of those. I remember they said they have a plan.

MacGruder
10-14-2011, 05:19 PM
He needs to do some yoga for flexibility. I'm not so sure he should stop lifting but he should change his routine to build stamina and not just muscle mass. High rep, low weight types of upper body conditioning.

Tebow only lifts to a certain weight now to prevent getting too bulky. Florida coaches made him stop I think Freshman year. He could bench 460 lbs.

I don't know why people can't just take the good with the bad and accept the pluses and minuses..

Tebow is ripped and it probably slows his motion a little.. but he can also take big hits in the pocket for the same reason.. Everything balances out. The good thing is being unique though.. by being different opposing defenses aren't accustomed to dealing with the problems he presents.

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 05:22 PM
He needs to do some yoga for flexibility. I'm not so sure he should stop lifting but he should change his routine to build stamina and not just muscle mass. High rep, low weight types of upper body conditioning.

Leg strength is always essential. He repped 225 38 times. That is insane and I read where he benched around 500lbs 1 rep. He is by far the strongest QB to ever step on the field. The other freaky thing is he vertical leaped 38.5 inches at the combine. That ties the record for QBs at the combine.

The other guy who lept that high was around 175 pounds. Tebow did that at around 245 or 250. What does that mean? It means his leg strength is freak strength. Running into him, or getting trucked by him is like being hit by a truck.

I think he needs to get the bulk of his upper body down as much as he can. It isnt that his arm isnt strong, it is that he cant get the necessary torque. It will be a constant problem. Nothing he can really do about the body type other than trying to cut the bulk down.

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 05:39 PM
Yeah, they should keep their streak of not drafting a DT alive. That last one was Trevor Pryce.

Great, cause they sure dont need one of those. I remember they said they have a plan.

QB depth is going to be necessary too... unless you're advocating extensions for Orton and/or Quinn.

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 05:51 PM
QB depth is going to be necessary too... unless you're advocating extensions for Orton and/or Quinn.

No, but IF Tebow makes something out of his chance, there are all sorts of QBs that can back up. Weber, Gerrard, etc etc.

If they can get Luck, then you do it. If not then no.

TonyR
10-14-2011, 05:52 PM
I sure hope Tebow succeeds dont you? Yeah, of course you do.

Sigh. There it is, folks. If you suggest even the slightest questions or concerns about Tebow it means you want him to fail.

Agamemnon
10-14-2011, 05:53 PM
Yeah, they should keep their streak of not drafting a DT alive. That last one was Trevor Pryce.

Great, cause they sure dont need one of those. I remember they said they have a plan.

Apparently DT isn't a big need anymore. ::)

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 05:57 PM
Apparently DT isn't a big need anymore. ::)

The DTs on this team are average.....at best.

They cant really stop the run, but they make up for that by not getting any push.

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 06:05 PM
No, but IF Tebow makes something out of his chance, there are all sorts of QBs that can back up. Weber, Gerrard, etc etc.

If they can get Luck, then you do it. If not then no.

Except that a FA will cost more than a draft pick. And again, going solely by what "EFX" has publicly said, I will not be surprised if they take a QB. This statement is not necessarily an endorsement of that decision; merely acknowledgement that it is what it is.

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 06:28 PM
Sigh. There it is, folks. If you suggest even the slightest questions or concerns about Tebow it means you want him to fail.

Kinda deja vu... I got the exact same response a couple of years back for being skeptical of McDaniels. Too funny.

broncosteven
10-14-2011, 06:34 PM
Sigh. There it is, folks. If you suggest even the slightest questions or concerns about Tebow it means you want him to fail.

Very good, you must have learned something from your blind defense of mCd.

Having concerns about a guy doesn't mean your a bad fan or what them to fail, it just means you have concerns.

broncosteven
10-14-2011, 06:35 PM
Kinda deja vu... I got the exact same response a couple of years back for being skeptical of McDaniels. Too funny.

HAHA Blue beat me to it!

It was funny to read that kind of response coming from him, he was one of the worst mCd protectors.

Maybe he learned? This would be a better place if he, and others did.

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 06:42 PM
Sigh. There it is, folks. If you suggest even the slightest questions or concerns about Tebow it means you want him to fail.

Oh, are you blind or something, or did you see where I said he is inaccurate and things to work on?

Sigh.

Orton was the wrong choice. Clearly too.

TonyR
10-14-2011, 06:46 PM
Very good, you must have learned something from your blind defense of mCd.

I understand your point but there's a cavernous difference between expressing concerns and having questions about someone on one hand and mercilessly bashing them on the other. I've never bashed Tebow, and I didn't see Blue bashing him earlier to elicit the comment she got implying she wants him to fail.

TonyR
10-14-2011, 06:48 PM
Oh, are you blind or something, or did you see where I said he is inaccurate and things to work on?

I was commenting on your implication that Blue doesn't want Tebow to succeed just because she's not ready to hand him the MVP trophy.

BlueandOrange32
10-14-2011, 06:58 PM
I was commenting on your implication that Blue doesn't want Tebow to succeed just because she's not ready to hand him the MVP trophy.

Yeah, I know. My comment was to say there are things to be excited about. Who knows how it will work. I cant think of a time I wished for something more. The level of double standard and hatred for someone by the media is frustrating as hell.

Of course there are questions. No different than any other QB. It is just that many inthe media just reveal their obvious leanings by the level of ridicule.

Personally I find it weird that he hasnt ran to the alter yet. I mean, if I had all of those hotties all over me, and how many offer it up....I dont know.

I would have been running for the alter. To me that has me wondering....just a little.

I think that would help him....if he got that.....you know....eh hem out of the way. It will take a while though to learn how to you.....gain confidence and control it.

Anyway, yeah I just get sick of the attacks. Some how I thought that about blue. My bad.

TonyR
10-14-2011, 07:09 PM
Good read on Tebow from ESPN.com's fantasy football guy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=TMR111013

myMind
10-14-2011, 07:29 PM
Good read on Tebow from ESPN.com's fantasy football guy:

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=TMR111013



"I'm not going to lie: Tim Tebow makes me want to be a better man. I'm probably not going to try very hard, but he makes me want to."

That got me laughing pretty hard for some reason.

TotallyScrewed
10-14-2011, 08:20 PM
Meh. I applied two questions to the article:

Is it (Gaffney's opinion) relevant? (No).
Could any bias possibly be involved? (Yes, definitely).

Beyond that, it completely contradicts everything everyone else who was unbiased (reporters, OM'ers, coaches) said they personally saw in the early days of training camp.

Conclusion: Dismissed.

But your mileage may vary.

You really believe that reporters (who are no better than print talkshow hosts), OM'ers (never with an agenda) and coaches are unbiased? Really? Really?

Of course, it's your call to believe what you want to believe. Just remember that "objects may be closer than they appear". If you set your mirrors properly, there is no blind spot.

Hamrob
10-14-2011, 10:46 PM
Leg strength is always essential. He repped 225 38 times. That is insane and I read where he benched around 500lbs 1 rep. He is by far the strongest QB to ever step on the field. The other freaky thing is he vertical leaped 38.5 inches at the combine. That ties the record for QBs at the combine.

The other guy who lept that high was around 175 pounds. Tebow did that at around 245 or 250. What does that mean? It means his leg strength is freak strength. Running into him, or getting trucked by him is like being hit by a truck.

I think he needs to get the bulk of his upper body down as much as he can. It isnt that his arm isnt strong, it is that he cant get the necessary torque. It will be a constant problem. Nothing he can really do about the body type other than trying to cut the bulk down.First off, there is no way that Tebow benched 460lbs. whoever believes that, is a FFFFing idiot!!! In my hay day I could bench 225lbs 25 times. That's where Tebow was at the Combine. My max was aboout 335. Guys putting up 460 on bench are power lifters.

Next, Tebow did not have a verticle of 38" inches. I was a high School QB/WR who ran the 400 in 48 seconds in high school. Though I have 32" arms, I could dunk at 6' tall. There is no way that Tebow has 38" leaping ability. Show me a link??

I love Tebow and his abilities and passion...but, get real!

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 11:17 PM
Yeah, I know. My comment was to say there are things to be excited about. Who knows how it will work. I cant think of a time I wished for something more. The level of double standard and hatred for someone by the media is frustrating as hell.

Of course there are questions. No different than any other QB. It is just that many inthe media just reveal their obvious leanings by the level of ridicule.

Personally I find it weird that he hasnt ran to the alter yet. I mean, if I had all of those hotties all over me, and how many offer it up....I dont know.

I would have been running for the alter. To me that has me wondering....just a little.

I think that would help him....if he got that.....you know....eh hem out of the way. It will take a while though to learn how to you.....gain confidence and control it.

Anyway, yeah I just get sick of the attacks. Some how I thought that about blue. My bad.

Absolutely there are tons of things to be excited about with the Broncos. McDaniels took us to rock bottom and now we're headed back in the right direction. IMHO.

Blueflame
10-14-2011, 11:25 PM
You really believe that reporters (who are no better than print talkshow hosts), OM'ers (never with an agenda) and coaches are unbiased? Really? Really?

Of course, it's your call to believe what you want to believe. Just remember that "objects may be closer than they appear". If you set your mirrors properly, there is no blind spot.

What I believe is this: the story from everywhere the day training camp opened was one thing (Tebow looked awful and had regressed)... and then months later Gaffney (who could be biased and had very limited contact with the team this year due to being traded the day training camp opened) reportedly tells another story that's 180 degrees different from what everybody else said. You'd have to be a totally blind Tebow homer to think Gaffney's remarks were more credible (it's called "history revision").

Agamemnon
10-14-2011, 11:28 PM
First off, there is no way that Tebow benched 460lbs. whoever believes that, is a FFFFing idiot!!! In my hay day I could bench 225lbs 25 times. That's where Tebow was at the Combine. My max was aboout 335. Guys putting up 460 on bench are power lifters.

Next, Tebow did not have a verticle of 38" inches. I was a high School QB/WR who ran the 400 in 48 seconds in high school. Though I have 32" arms, I could dunk at 6' tall. There is no way that Tebow has 38" leaping ability. Show me a link??

I love Tebow and his abilities and passion...but, get real!

His vertical at the combine was 38.5 inches. I have no idea what his max bench was, but 1 rep power and 25 rep endurance are two different animals. Just because you had the same endurance does not mean you had the same max power. That's not how weightlifting works.

Either way none of this really matters. The guy is phenomenally strong and athletic for a QB. His future rests on whether or not he has the ability to master the passing game. The rest of his game is already clearly exceptional even by NFL standards.

Link for vertical:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66563&draftyear=2010&genpos=QB

strafen
10-14-2011, 11:39 PM
There are a bunch of dirty plates in the sink that need to be washed.

You can do better than that man. That's low!

Br0nc0Buster
10-15-2011, 12:18 AM
First off, there is no way that Tebow benched 460lbs. whoever believes that, is a FFFFing idiot!!! In my hay day I could bench 225lbs 25 times. That's where Tebow was at the Combine. My max was aboout 335. Guys putting up 460 on bench are power lifters.

Next, Tebow did not have a verticle of 38" inches. I was a high School QB/WR who ran the 400 in 48 seconds in high school. Though I have 32" arms, I could dunk at 6' tall. There is no way that Tebow has 38" leaping ability. Show me a link??

I love Tebow and his abilities and passion...but, get real!

hmm so you are the standard to which we should judge professional athletes now?

Jay Cutler can bench 400, its not that far fetched to suggest Tebow can do that if not more considering he smashed the qb combine record for bench

I dont know about 460, but I wouldnt be surprised at all if he can get up 400

Im not a Tebow fan boy, but it is well documented the guy is a freak of nature, and his measurables far exceed that of the "normal" athlete

At the combine he beat out like all but 3 "skill" players at the quickness and agility drills all while prolly outweighing them and in some cases prolly outweighing them significantly

and btw no one cares about how much you bench or how big your arms are, this isnt a body building site

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 02:13 AM
First off, there is no way that Tebow benched 460lbs. whoever believes that, is a FFFFing idiot!!! In my hay day I could bench 225lbs 25 times. That's where Tebow was at the Combine. My max was aboout 335. Guys putting up 460 on bench are power lifters.

Next, Tebow did not have a verticle of 38" inches. I was a high School QB/WR who ran the 400 in 48 seconds in high school. Though I have 32" arms, I could dunk at 6' tall. There is no way that Tebow has 38" leaping ability. Show me a link??

I love Tebow and his abilities and passion...but, get real!

There is an old article where the strength and conditioning coach at Florida said Tebow broke the record for the leg press machine for the University of Florida Gators team on a trip he made to be recruited when he was still in high school. He did it after they had McDonald's when the trip was over.

His claimed max bench was 460 while a freshman before they stopped him from benching and lifting with the linemen because they didn't want him getting to bulky. In an interview towards the end of his college career a journalist asked him if he went and benched right now what he could do.. Tebow said "probably around 400"

I heard Donavan McNabb could bench over 400 lbs. But him doing that now and Tebow doing 400 plus as a college freshman is far more impressive to me. I also read Tebow could squat 680 lbs which was exceptional for linemen. Watch this vid to see how powerful Tebow is.. this is as a freshman in like his 3rd game that season.

http://www.myspace.com/video/motleygator/tebow-dominates-lsu/2936127

Watch this doc when he was in high school they talk about how strong he is..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HOUMIgfhJA

Also, in Tebow's book they had them do strength competitions and at one point they had the offense and defense pick their 2 strongest guys to have a tug-of-war. Tebow and the strongest lineman destroyed UF's 2 strongest defenders in the tug of war. There are all kinds of stories like this regarding Tebow being a physical freak. They had mat drills where Tebow dominated everyone he faced at UF too. Tebow is truly a linebacker playing QB.

maven
10-15-2011, 02:16 AM
I remembered at the time Tebow was working on his game when Orton was in Vegas celebrating a great season with his linemen..


I enjoy lines like these...

While Tebow was on a book tour and appearing on national tv shows, Orton was working hard in the gym, practicing, and preparing for a baby.

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 02:25 AM
I enjoy lines like these...

While Tebow was on a book tour and appearing on national tv shows, Orton was working hard in the gym, practicing, and preparing for a baby.

You are comparing doing a PR appearance which helps represent your team publicly and helps his charity to Orton celebrating a losing season as the leader by getting his linemen hammered in Vegas? That stuff might have flown pre 70s in the NFL but this is a different era.

Blueflame
10-15-2011, 02:34 AM
Unless you were there in Vegas being the morality police and counting drinks, I'm not sure how you can definitively assert that anyone was "hammered", MacGruder.

Requiem
10-15-2011, 02:38 AM
You are comparing doing a PR appearance which helps represent your team publicly and helps his charity to Orton celebrating a losing season as the leader by getting his linemen hammered in Vegas? That stuff might have flown pre 70s in the NFL but this is a different era.

Cocaine for the Hurricanes. It's real yo.

Cito Pelon
10-15-2011, 02:48 AM
Tebow certainly did look a little shaky early in TC and early in PS, but he looked better later in PS. I think he'll do well as the starter. Dude is an excellent football player.

Like Elway said early on, "Our job is to make him a good QB." Now they've made that commitment, and we'll see. I think Tebow will do well.

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 02:48 AM
Unless you were there in Vegas being the morality police and counting drinks, I'm not sure how you can definitively assert that anyone was "hammered", MacGruder.

Oh come on... either way it is celebrating a horrible season. Any way you slice it that is poor leadership.

Blueflame
10-15-2011, 02:57 AM
A shared vacation trip promotes solidarity and the bonds of friendship. How can that be a negative? Are you really suggesting that they were all supposed to go into seclusion and mope because the team went 4-12? How long of a period of mourning was required? A month? Two? Longer?

Would a trip to Vegas be acceptable if it were just one player + his wife or girlfriend? What if it was a honeymoon trip? ???

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 03:04 AM
A shared vacation trip promotes solidarity and the bonds of friendship. How can that be a negative? Are you really suggesting that they were all supposed to go into seclusion and mope because the team went 4-12? How long of a period of mourning was required? A month? Two? Longer?

That is exactly what I am suggesting... it certainly doesn't present a picture of someone doing everything they can to win. Orton's entire persona is the same way. Tebow did his PR stuff but he also showed how incredibly hard he worls all through the summer. Orton seems to have demanded a trade in the off season and came back even worse than he was last season. and he can't use inexperience as an excuse..

Would a trip to Vegas be acceptable if it were just one player + his wife or girlfriend? What if it was a honeymoon trip? ???

Absolutely... the differences are subtle but there.. spending time with your family is something you need to do.. spending time with your linemen in Vegas is not.. and it sends a bad message after such a horrific season. And Orton's wife wasn't responsible for losing but Orton and the linemen were. Tebow also had those book obligations which were for a higher purpose and the golf things he went to were all for charity. The charity is more important than football any way you slice it.

Blueflame
10-15-2011, 03:17 AM
BS, MacGruder. This team was reeling after all the chaos of the 2010 season... the worst season record in the history of the franchise and the acknowledgement of the epic failure that was the McDaniels era (cutting losses and firing him midway through the year).

Hey, if Orton can afford to take his teammates to Vegas for some fun, who's to say he shouldn't? Are you his accountant? Or just his lifestyle police?

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 03:25 AM
BS, MacGruder. This team was reeling after all the chaos of the 2010 season... the worst season record in the history of the franchise and the acknowledgement of the epic failure that was the McDaniels era (cutting losses and firing him midway through the year).

That epic failure McDaniels made Orton look much much better than he was. Anyone should have known that. The team was reeling because ORTON couldn't get the job done. McD put him in position to do it and he didn't.

Hey, if Orton can afford to take his teammates to Vegas for some fun, who's to say he shouldn't? Are you his accountant? Or just his lifestyle police?

Some fun? lol Do you think as a team they deserved to have that much fun? That's the point. And then they come back even worse nest season.. time for an even LONGER Vegas trip this year!

Blueflame
10-15-2011, 03:44 AM
The epic failure McDaniels is the reason Orton was ever in Denver to begin with. The team was reeling because McDaniels attempted to conceal cheating rather than follow league rules... and was fired for it. He left the team in complete disarray and with very little talent remaining on the roster.

Going on vacation and relaxing after the end of the season is the whole concept behind the Pro Bowl... it seems that by saying teams with losing records don't deserve to have any fun, you're advocating disqualifying players from teams with losing records from participating in the Pro Bowl even if they're voted in.

What's the difference between going to Hawaii and going to Vegas? Your position (telling NFL players how to spend their money and leisure time) is untenable.

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 03:57 AM
The epic failure McDaniels is the reason Orton was ever in Denver to begin with.

And from what I heard McD drafted Tebow because Orton wasn't a good leader and was not a hard worker... his behavior such as this Vegas trip reiterates that.

The team was reeling because McDaniels attempted to conceal cheating rather than follow league rules... and was fired for it. He left the team in complete disarray and with very little talent remaining on the roster.

Belichick was guilty of the same thing and I don't see him getting fired. If Orton had one 1/1000th of the leadership, dedication and QB abilities Brady has McD wouldn't have gotten fired either.

Going on vacation and relaxing after the end of the season is the whole concept behind the Pro Bowl... it seems that by saying teams with losing records don't deserve to have any fun, you're advocating disqualifying players from teams with losing records from participating in the Pro Bowl even if they're voted in.

The Pro bowl is something done for NFL fans to pay them back.. Orton and his linemen celebrating a losing season in Vegas does nothing for anyone but them.. and for what? The worst season in Broncos history, no?

What's the difference between going to Hawaii and going to Vegas? Your position (telling NFL players how to spend their money and leisure time) is untenable.

I disagree, see above. It;s completely tenable. It's called leadership.

BlueandOrange32
10-15-2011, 05:07 AM
First off, there is no way that Tebow benched 460lbs. whoever believes that, is a FFFFing idiot!!! In my hay day I could bench 225lbs 25 times. That's where Tebow was at the Combine. My max was aboout 335. Guys putting up 460 on bench are power lifters.

Next, Tebow did not have a verticle of 38" inches. I was a high School QB/WR who ran the 400 in 48 seconds in high school. Though I have 32" arms, I could dunk at 6' tall. There is no way that Tebow has 38" leaping ability. Show me a link??

I love Tebow and his abilities and passion...but, get real!



Florida QB Tim Tebow posted a 38.5-inch vertical jump on Sunday at the Combine. Tebow's mark ties for the best ever vertical posted by a quarterback.
Read more: http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nfl/Tim_Tebow/805749#ixzz1aqXkyKGs

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/02/tim-tebow-unoffically-runs-40-yard-dash-in-47-seconds/1

I have read that he repped 38 reps.
http://www.40-yard-dash-times.com/tim-tebow-40-yard-dash-time.html

I also know he benches close to 500 lbs.

There you go.

Who feels like the FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFIIIIINNNNGGGGG idiot?

I also find it rather funny how you are comparing yourself to Tebow's HS play. One of the most recruited players in the history of the NCAA. Two time Florida HS player of the year and you compare yourself? You benched over 300 lbs? Me too.

I played at a HS where we broke a record for points given up in a season. 24 all season with 7 shut outs and that stand to this day. The HS I had is now DC for the Atlanta falcons Brian Van Gorder. Yes, we were # 1 in the state in 1987.

Want to meaure our thingies now? I have 8 inches by 6 inches circumference. You?

tsiguy96
10-15-2011, 05:15 AM
First off, there is no way that Tebow benched 460lbs. whoever believes that, is a FFFFing idiot!!! In my hay day I could bench 225lbs 25 times. That's where Tebow was at the Combine. My max was aboout 335. Guys putting up 460 on bench are power lifters.

Next, Tebow did not have a verticle of 38" inches. I was a high School QB/WR who ran the 400 in 48 seconds in high school. Though I have 32" arms, I could dunk at 6' tall. There is no way that Tebow has 38" leaping ability. Show me a link??

I love Tebow and his abilities and passion...but, get real!

tebow combine numbers


40: 4.72
vertical:38.5

he didnt bench press, but its not unheard of for college guys to do 440+, hell brian orakpo was at that 500 level. tebow is an absolute freak of an athlete, i dont doubt he has a 400+ bench.

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 06:56 AM
Look at his freakin thighs haha Tebow literally kicks like a Bronco hah

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-on/2010/03/01/tebow-leapx-large.jpg

bowtown
10-15-2011, 07:17 AM
Oh come on... either way it is celebrating a horrible season. Any way you slice it that is poor leadership.

Surprise, surprise, more terrible takes by MacGruder.

mhgaffney
10-15-2011, 12:00 PM
And just how much perspective (on Tebow) could Gaffney possibly have had considering that he was traded to Washington on the first day training camp opened (July 27)?

http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/27/2297961/denver-broncos-trade-jabar-gaffney-to-washington-redskins

I'm sure Gaffney couldn't possibly have been biased in favor of a fellow Gator.

Not Being a Gator myself -- I wouldn't know.

lonestar
10-15-2011, 12:24 PM
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Tim%20-Tebow?id=497135

40 4.72

vertical 38.5
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=VERTICAL_JUMP&year=2010&position=QB

9'7" Broad jump
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=BROAD_JUMP&year=2010&position=QB

6.66 three cone drill the current record
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=THREE_CONE_DRILL&year=2010&position=QB

4.17 20 yard shuttle
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=TWENTY_YARD_SHUTTLE&year=2010&position=QB

11.27 60 yard shuttle
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#workout=SIXTY_YARD_SHUTTLE&year=2010&position=QB

damned fine athlete.. led all QB's in the shuttle and holds the all time QB record in the cone drills

I did hear he did 38 reps but not at the combine

lonestar
10-15-2011, 12:54 PM
give me a QB this tough and He will entertain me and my fans..


Tebow plays game and runs 20 yard touchdown with broken leg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQWaQkArpE

TheReverend
10-15-2011, 01:14 PM
Want to meaure our thingies now? I have 8 inches by 6 inches circumference. You?

Hilarious!

How many PMs did you get from dudes?

BlueandOrange32
10-15-2011, 01:40 PM
Hilarious!

How many PMs did you get from dudes?

Sigmund Freud would love to analyze your comment. _i_O_i_

Requiem
10-15-2011, 01:42 PM
Hey cutie. . . nice girth.

Drek
10-15-2011, 02:22 PM
I did hear he did 38 reps but not at the combine
The 38 reps number comes from him doing 38 reps of 185 as a high school senior at one of the high school all american events.

He hasn't benched in a competitive environment since he was a freshman and Urban Meyer locked him out of the weight room, after he shattered many of the existing records.

Going by MaxPrep he's somewhere between 10-20 pounds heavier now.

It would probably be a safe assumption that if he did bench at the combine he woud have set an all time QB high.

TheReverend
10-15-2011, 02:27 PM
Sigmund Freud would love to analyze your comment. _i_O_i_

You caught me.

CEH
10-15-2011, 02:47 PM
Why do ppl assumed being overly muscular is conducive to playing QB especially throwing. I know several ex-pro baseball players (pitchers) who think Tebow is too muscular and that is part of his throwing and accuracy issues

BlueandOrange32
10-15-2011, 02:50 PM
Why do ppl assumed being overly muscular is conducive to playing QB especially throwing. I know several ex-pro baseball players (pitchers) who think Tebow is too muscular and that is part of his throwing and accuracy issues

Yes, I for one mentioned his mesomorph body type is a detriment in a lot of ways and is a big reason for his lack of accuracy.

There is the skinny, unatheletic body of Orton, and the exact opposite in Tebow.

There you.

Take the good, take the bad, take them both and there you have the facts of life.

Sit ubu sit.

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 03:01 PM
Why do ppl assume being overly muscular is conducive to playing QB especially throwing. I know several ex-pro baseball players (pitchers) who think Tebow is too muscular and that is part of his throwing and accuracy issues

I look at it the complete opposite.. what makes people think being a finesse passer is conducive to winning in today's NFL? It truly seems absurd and comical the guys they roll out against defenses in this era with athletes that they simply can't compete with physically. Orton is a prime example of this. Which is why it is so silly to base a Qbs ability on non contact scrimmages the way they did Orton.

Sure Orton can pass the ball decent and knows the offense.. but athletically he has no business being on an NFL field in this era. They need one of those things at amusement parks with the "you must be this height to go on this ride". But in the NFL it should be - you must meet these athletic requirements to play in an NFL game OR pass like Aaron Rodgers. Orton has nether.

Agamemnon
10-15-2011, 03:01 PM
Yes, I for one mentioned his mesomorph body type is a detriment in a lot of ways and is a big reason for his lack of accuracy.

There is the skinny, unatheletic body of Orton, and the exact opposite in Tebow.

There you.

Take the good, take the bad, take them both and there you have the facts of life.

Sit ubu sit.

He had absolutely zero accuracy issues in college. How about we wait and see if this is a long-term issue or an issue due to youth and inexperience, before going off on tangents about how he's built. Many guys have historically had accuracy issues in their first three or four games. Pretty much none of them were built like Tebow.

Cito Pelon
10-15-2011, 03:01 PM
Why do ppl assumed being overly muscular is conducive to playing QB especially throwing. I know several ex-pro baseball players (pitchers) who think Tebow is too muscular and that is part of his throwing and accuracy issues

If the guy had torpedo sized breasts I could see it being a problem. This getting silly.

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 03:04 PM
He had absolutely zero accuracy issues in college. How about we wait and see if this is a long-term issue or an issue due to youth and inexperience, before going off on tangents about how he's built. Many guys have historically had accuracy issues in their first three or four games. Pretty much none of them were built like Tebow.

Let's not forget Tebow has changed his throwing motion and all his footwork as well. And he is adapting to the NFL pro style game. oh, and he also has had no real preparation and has been thrown into every game he has played without any decent prep. Oh, and he outplayed every rookie Qb last season even thrown into the worst situation imaginable..

Agamemnon
10-15-2011, 03:04 PM
If the guy had torpedo sized breasts I could see it being a problem. This getting silly.

Yep. It's not because he's only 3 and 1/2 games into his career. It's because he's too built. ::)

razorwire77
10-15-2011, 03:12 PM
If the guy had torpedo sized breasts I could see it being a problem. This getting silly.

Yeah, this is getting ridiculous. It's not like he's ****ing Ronnie Coleman or something. Tebow will succeed or he will fail, but it doesn't have anything to do with his physique.

BlueandOrange32
10-15-2011, 03:31 PM
Yep. It's not because he's only 3 and 1/2 games into his career. It's because he's too built. ::)

You are of course missing the point. I am telling you the body type is one of the main reasons he struggles with accuracy. He didnt struggle with it in college, cause he was asked to run something totally different.

I am talking about a pro style, in the pocket accuracy. Itis just something that will always be there.

His positives out weigh the negatives.

Agamemnon
10-15-2011, 05:04 PM
You are of course missing the point. I am telling you the body type is one of the main reasons he struggles with accuracy. He didnt struggle with it in college, cause he was asked to run something totally different.

I am talking about a pro style, in the pocket accuracy. Itis just something that will always be there.

His positives out weigh the negatives.

And I'm telling you that you are being ridiculous. Accuracy problems are the norm for young QBs in their early starts. Even more so for spread option QBs trying to learn pocket passing. To say his muscle mass is more of an issue than the fact that he is a young QB who had never really lined up under center before going to the NFL is absurd.

Blueflame
10-15-2011, 06:01 PM
And I'm telling you that you are being ridiculous. Accuracy problems are the norm for young QBs in their early starts. Even more so for spread option QBs trying to learn pocket passing. To say his muscle mass is more of an issue than the fact that he is a young QB who had never really lined up under center before going to the NFL is absurd.

I find it kinda absurd that any QB can make it to the NFL having "never really lined up under center before"... generally they teach that in Pop Warner.

MacGruder
10-15-2011, 06:19 PM
I find it kinda absurd that any QB can make it to the NFL having "never really lined up under center before"... generally they teach that in Pop Warner.

Come on, you aren't even trying. lol You are saying his experience way back in pop warner should carry him through in the NFL? lol

Remember, people forget, the issue isn't taking the snap. The issue is reading the defense while playing under center in the NFL and taking the snap while the opponent is about to come flying over the line of scrimmage knowing you haven't got the pro game down as much as everyone else you are competing against.. PLUS you have to deliver a pass in the smallest window while doing all this.

It would be like someone having to read a book while flying in a F-18 while traveling at mach 2 and asking them what the problem is.. asking if they forgot how to read. The issue isn't reading.. the issue is reading while doing dog rolls and loops at supersonic speeds while inverted and keeping your lunch down.

lonestar
10-15-2011, 10:01 PM
The 38 reps number comes from him doing 38 reps of 185 as a high school senior at one of the high school all american events.

He hasn't benched in a competitive environment since he was a freshman and Urban Meyer locked him out of the weight room, after he shattered many of the existing records.

Going by MaxPrep he's somewhere between 10-20 pounds heavier now.

It would probably be a safe assumption that if he did bench at the combine he woud have set an all time QB high.

unfortunately your incorrect about the urban meyer comment.

HE stopped him from lifting with the LOS guys on D and O as he was doing much the same weights and reps as they were..

I do remember seeing somewhere that he did the 38 reps in or near his senior year just before the combine..

just can't find it at this time..

but even if he did not, he is built more like a LB than a pansy QB.

lonestar
10-15-2011, 10:05 PM
He had absolutely zero accuracy issues in college. How about we wait and see if this is a long-term issue or an issue due to youth and inexperience, before going off on tangents about how he's built. Many guys have historically had accuracy issues in their first three or four games. Pretty much none of them were built like Tebow.

Actually and I am recalling this from memory..Tebow had about a 60% completion rate but MOST of those passes were screen and dinks and dunks..

I do not ever expect him in his early years to be much more than 58% or so. As he gets more comfortable and the coaches get their heads out of their collective asses they will realize he is more like John E than Johnny U.

lonestar
10-15-2011, 10:10 PM
And I'm telling you that you are being ridiculous. Accuracy problems are the norm for young QBs in their early starts. Even more so for spread option QBs trying to learn pocket passing. To say his muscle mass is more of an issue than the fact that he is a young QB who had never really lined up under center before going to the NFL is absurd.

Let me add even if has been said before his. Fumbling the sanp frm Center has more to do with not working with JD until the second half of the game..

All of his reps until then this year have been with the second string center..

I suspect that JD and tebow will be working on that a bunch this next few weeks..

And EVEN when he did not get a clean exchange it is not like he put it on teh ground.. he recovered quite nicely.. Once he can put that out of his mind then otehr things will go smoother also..

Like you I do not see the issues that some of these clowns in the media do..

Blueflame
10-15-2011, 11:46 PM
No, MacGruder, I'm saying that "taking a snap from center" is generally a skill that they begin teaching to QB prospects in Pop Warner football. It's very unusual for a QB to make it through Pop Warner, high school, and college... and still not be comfortable taking a snap under center. That is not the norm.

MacGruder
10-16-2011, 03:12 AM
No, MacGruder, I'm saying that "taking a snap from center" is generally a skill that they begin teaching to QB prospects in Pop Warner football. It's very unusual for a QB to make it through Pop Warner, high school, and college... and still not be comfortable taking a snap under center. That is not the norm.

Then why do many NFL QBs often fumble the snap even players who have only played in that system their whole life?

It is said all the time that QBs who didn't play in pro style offenses have to get adjusted to that.. it's not just Tebow.

And also as I said.. it's not the snap itself that is the issue...

There was a Hard Knocks episode where Mark Sanchez was having trouble taking the snap and he played in a pro offense at USC. Joe Namath was trying to get Sanchez to use a different technique than the one Tebow and Sanchez use because he said it wasn't effective.

Also.. if you watch the centers they are the ones that make taking the snap tough.. because they have to fend off the defender the instant they snap the ball. So it is likely the center causing the issues and the QB has to deal with it. but because of politics the center never gets blamed for it.. it's always the QBs fault. so again. also, if Tebow was just concerned with laying down in the fetal position rather than actually winning the game I am sure taking the snap wouldn't be an issue at all.

MacGruder
10-16-2011, 03:22 AM
Actually and I am recalling this from memory..Tebow had about a 60% completion rate but MOST of those passes were screen and dinks and dunks..


This is total BS. lol

Tebow was one of the best deep passers in college football. also, remember, the only way opposing defenses could slow his offense was by sitting on his receivers. Tebow didn't have the runners a Cam Newton had. He himself was the primary runner. So opposing defenses would sit on their passing game to make their offense less prolific and DARE TT to run because this gave them the best chance to knock him out of the game. This is why he made the little runners around him look so great. They benefited from the defenses pressure taking Tebow's passing away and trying to knock him out of the game.

This is why I have always said Cam Newton couldn't have ran the offense at Florida. He wasn't a good enough passer nor durable runner. He was in the ideal situation for a run first QB at Auburn. Tebow was in the ideal situation preparing him for the NFL passing wise. cam also spent his time on the bench and in junior college working on his throwing motion while TT was dominating even with flawed mechanics and fundamentals. That was why TT waited to change his motion until after school.

Blueflame
10-16-2011, 04:18 AM
You're deflecting, MacGruder. "QBs occasionally fumbling a snap" has nothing to do with a QB coming into the league having "never really lined up under center before".

Jay3
10-16-2011, 04:32 AM
Actually and I am recalling this from memory..Tebow had about a 60% completion rate but MOST of those passes were screen and dinks and dunks..


That could not be more wrong. His completion was 66% and there were almost no dinks and dunks. He can't even throw a good dink or dunk.

MacGruder
10-16-2011, 04:33 AM
You're deflecting, MacGruder. "QBs occasionally fumbling a snap" has nothing to do with a QB coming into the league having "never really lined up under center before".

Tebow has lined up under center before.. he just hasn't done it enough to be comfortable in the NFL.. that is what people mean when they say that.

Jay3
10-16-2011, 04:34 AM
You're deflecting, MacGruder. "QBs occasionally fumbling a snap" has nothing to do with a QB coming into the league having "never really lined up under center before".

It's more and more common. Sam Bradford had almost never taken snaps under center at Oklahoma. Cam Newton was always gun.

It's proliferated at the high schools in many areas.

It's not literally "no snaps under center." But a of teams just almost never snap it under center.

Blueflame
10-16-2011, 05:25 AM
It's more and more common. Sam Bradford had almost never taken snaps under center at Oklahoma. Cam Newton was always gun.

It's proliferated at the high schools in many areas.

It's not literally "no snaps under center." But a of teams just almost never snap it under center.

That may work in college but it won't in the NFL. :)

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:51 AM
I find it kinda absurd that any QB can make it to the NFL having "never really lined up under center before"... generally they teach that in Pop Warner.

Well, he might have in Pop Warner, and maybe in H.S. (all the good those do him in the NFL), I don't know, but he didn't do it at all in college. It's getting to be pretty common anymore with the popularity of spread offenses.

Drek
10-16-2011, 05:53 AM
That may work in college but it won't in the NFL. :)
But why is this such a Tebow specific issue when many other QBs have come into this league out of similar spread offenses?

Sam Bradford's collegiate team spent as much time in shotgun as Florida, Bradford played significantly less college ball than Tebow. Yet he went 1st overall and no one mentioned the transition he would need to make.

Cam Newton was Tebow's backup at Florida and spent the rest of his collegiate career in a spread, only starting one season for Auburn almost entirely out of shotgun. Yet no one assumes he'll never make it.

Aaron Rodgers came from a college offense that was shotgun heavy. In fact, Rodgers had almost all the same knocks coming out of school as Tebow. Not enough time behind center, no touch/accuracy on short passes, college offense he played in had never turned out a good pro QB, etc.. Now Rodgers is talked about like he's some mythical prototype QB by the very same talking heads who said he was rubbish and far inferior to Alex Smith.

I'd like to see Tebow given regular reps with Walton at center before buying into the notion the can't work from behind center.

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 05:58 AM
That may work in college but it won't in the NFL. :)

I disagree. All it takes is a daring coach who knows what he's doing to make it work. Most NFL coaches stick with what they know, and so they stick with the QB under center most of the time.

Agamemnon
10-16-2011, 06:02 AM
But why is this such a Tebow specific issue when many other QBs have come into this league out of similar spread offenses?

Sam Bradford's collegiate team spent as much time in shotgun as Florida, Bradford played significantly less college ball than Tebow. Yet he went 1st overall and no one mentioned the transition he would need to make.

Cam Newton was Tebow's backup at Florida and spent the rest of his collegiate career in a spread, only starting one season for Auburn almost entirely out of shotgun. Yet no one assumes he'll never make it.

Aaron Rodgers came from a college offense that was shotgun heavy. In fact, Rodgers had almost all the same knocks coming out of school as Tebow. Not enough time behind center, no touch/accuracy on short passes, college offense he played in had never turned out a good pro QB, etc.. Now Rodgers is talked about like he's some mythical prototype QB by the very same talking heads who said he was rubbish and far inferior to Alex Smith.

I'd like to see Tebow given regular reps with Walton at center before buying into the notion the can't work from behind center.

It's not an issue that is unique to Tebow. It's not even an issue that's unique to spread QBs. Have people already forgotten all the issues Cutler had taking snaps in his rookie season? This "issue" is such a non-issue it's laughable. Anybody with two functional hands can master taking snaps from under center. Seriously this is the last thing anyone should be worried about.

Worry about what he does after getting the snap, not the snap itself...

eddie mac
10-16-2011, 08:21 AM
Quality WR traded for a 2bob ******** $450k pa Defensive Lineman who lasted less than a month here. Gotta love the **** that is Fox.

bowtown
10-16-2011, 08:26 AM
Quality WR traded for a 2bob ******** $450k pa Defensive Lineman who lasted less than a month here. Gotta love the **** that is Fox.

You're drinking early today.

BlueandOrange32
10-16-2011, 09:03 AM
At some point people are going to need to see the common denominator. Mcdaniels is gone.

So is it Xanders? Or....is it Bowlen budget issues?

Lets see. Bowlen could have paid Cutler which is what he and his agent were really after. He could have paid Marshall, who was paid top dollar 47 million dollars.

Mike Nolan was "bought up" by Miami.

Bowlen did lay off a bunch of the Broncos staff like Sundquist before the 2008 season. Preparing for what he knew was coming. There was talk of a lack of revenue sharing and a soft cap rather than hard cap.

Many owners have been preparing for that and the minimal salary floor doesnt kick in until 2013.

At the end of the 2008 season, the Broncos were 34 million under the cap which was third most room behind the Cardinals and Bills. Two owners notoriously frugal.

Now the rumors of the bonuses to Tebow, combined with Orton's big contract.

You have Bowlen not being able to sell luxury suites along with other things. EFX are under real budget constraints.

Lloyd is due for a big contract. If he thrives and does well, they will need to pay him big money. Big money that he is unwilling to pay at the expense of other issues.

What has been the real common denominator? Look at the Bills and how they have rid themselves of stars over the years. The Cardinals the same sort of thing.

The common denominator in this purging of Broncos "stars" is Bowlen.

eddie mac
10-16-2011, 09:04 AM
You're drinking early today.

Maybe early for you Bow but us Irishmen start early on a Sunday morning.

Blueflame
10-16-2011, 01:50 PM
But why is this such a Tebow specific issue when many other QBs have come into this league out of similar spread offenses?

Sam Bradford's collegiate team spent as much time in shotgun as Florida, Bradford played significantly less college ball than Tebow. Yet he went 1st overall and no one mentioned the transition he would need to make.

Cam Newton was Tebow's backup at Florida and spent the rest of his collegiate career in a spread, only starting one season for Auburn almost entirely out of shotgun. Yet no one assumes he'll never make it.

Aaron Rodgers came from a college offense that was shotgun heavy. In fact, Rodgers had almost all the same knocks coming out of school as Tebow. Not enough time behind center, no touch/accuracy on short passes, college offense he played in had never turned out a good pro QB, etc.. Now Rodgers is talked about like he's some mythical prototype QB by the very same talking heads who said he was rubbish and far inferior to Alex Smith.

I'd like to see Tebow given regular reps with Walton at center before buying into the notion the can't work from behind center.

It's a Tebow-specific issue on a Broncos forum... because our coaches want him to be able to work from under center and he isn't comfortable with it due to having little experience. Broncos fans in general couldn't care less if Sam Bradford or Cam Newton can't play under center, but it concerns us if our QB can't (and a significant portion of the offensive playbook calls for it).

Drek
10-16-2011, 02:54 PM
It's a Tebow-specific issue on a Broncos forum... because our coaches want him to be able to work from under center and he isn't comfortable with it due to having little experience. Broncos fans in general couldn't care less if Sam Bradford or Cam Newton can't play under center, but it concerns us if our QB can't (and a significant portion of the offensive playbook calls for it).

That's just it. Sam Bradford is going just fine under center. It took him a little bit to find a rhythm with his center but it wasn't some massive insurmountable challenge.

Cutler had a lot of issues under center when he first started for us, he played most of his college career in a more pro style offense.

Its a rookie problem and not the kind that ends careers. It is a minor part of a QB growing in the NFL, and it'll be a minor part of Tebow's growth.