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zdoor
10-12-2011, 03:42 PM
Twitter reports are saying the Broncos are in discussions to trade DJ for a 3rd or 4th round pick....

Smiling Assassin27
10-12-2011, 03:44 PM
Bring it on. A 3rd would be dreamy.

Tombstone RJ
10-12-2011, 03:45 PM
Do it. Do it now.

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 03:45 PM
...the ****.

Because we have such a ****ing strong LB core, right?

TonyR
10-12-2011, 03:45 PM
Raiders just got Curry from the Seahawks...

(just saw there's already a thread on this...)

crush17
10-12-2011, 03:45 PM
Good, Woodyard is as good if not better. Much better tackler and doesnt mess up his lanes as much.

Hope this is true!

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 03:48 PM
Good, Woodyard is as good if not better. Much better tackler and doesnt mess up his lanes as much.

Hope this is true!

You do realize we've been using DJ and Wesley at the same time quite a bit right?

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 03:49 PM
Wha?

Trade him for a dang DT. ;D

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 03:50 PM
Good, Woodyard is as good if not better. Much better tackler and doesnt mess up his lanes as much.

Hope this is true!

Woodyard is such a poor pass defender that he constantly gets picked on in game planning.

I havent seen enough of DJ this year to know if he's any better, but Woodyard has been pretty bad.

Popps
10-12-2011, 03:51 PM
http://jaesonma.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/jesus_praying.jpg

Tombstone RJ
10-12-2011, 03:52 PM
...the ****.

Because we have such a ****ing strong LB core, right?

Insert Nate Irving. Fuggit, let's see what he brings to the table.

Borks147
10-12-2011, 03:58 PM
Crazy - he and champ are the only ones left from 2004 right?

Dedhed
10-12-2011, 03:59 PM
Insert Nate Irving. Fuggit, let's see what he brings to the table.

This. Dj's never lived up to his potential other than a strong rookie year. Not totally his fault, but I'm all for trimming the fat.

Draft Burfict next year to be the beast mike, and let Woodyard and Irving work the will.

Chris
10-12-2011, 04:01 PM
Some tweets are saying it's the Eagles.

elsid13
10-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Insert Nate Irving. Fuggit, let's see what he brings to the table.

Irving is MLB and doesn't have the speed to play WLB. If this is true, it means Miller moves to WLB and Haggen is inserted to Strong side.

Ironlung
10-12-2011, 04:02 PM
Woodyard is such a poor pass defender that he constantly gets picked on in game planning.

This.

Popps
10-12-2011, 04:04 PM
Seems to confirm the suspicions many of us had that his play continued to slip, and he looked downright horrid on Sunday. I haven't re-watched... but the few times I was able to key on him in real-time... I saw him engaging blockers for absolutely no apparent reason and unable to shed. That was when he wasn't guessing completely wrong.
I thought playing back outside might make him less of a liability but that doesn't seem to be the case.

He can't leave town fast enough for me. He's been a weak link for years, imo. Someone on another blog put it very well. He's not awful all the time... but when he makes mistakes, he goes big.

Hamrob
10-12-2011, 04:08 PM
That's a pipe dream! Won't happen.

DJ Willaims was and is an average player who never lived up to where he was drafted.

Problem? We signed him to a $40m contract.

Good luck trying to unload the dead weight. Won't happen.

Bottom line...we need new leaders...because the current ones...do not know how to win football games. Champ and DJW will be gone in the offseason!

This teams leaders will soon become Tebow and Miller!

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 04:09 PM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HyuzNP_UP4w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ghwk
10-12-2011, 04:10 PM
Stockpiling picks to trade them away for Luck. Tebow may be part of that package.

maven
10-12-2011, 04:13 PM
I am all for acquiring more picks.

Dagmar
10-12-2011, 04:14 PM
In before poor Socal meltsdown.

Can I ask who is "reporting" it on twitter?

bowtown
10-12-2011, 04:14 PM
This is my imitation of SoCal when he reads this thread:

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/072011/1310121676_angry_wrestler.gif

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:17 PM
Twitter reports are saying the Broncos are in discussions to trade DJ for a 3rd or 4th round pick....

Who on twitter....?

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Seems to confirm the suspicions many of us had that his play continued to slip, and he looked downright horrid on Sunday. I haven't re-watched... but the few times I was able to key on him in real-time... I saw him engaging blockers for absolutely no apparent reason and unable to shed. That was when he wasn't guessing completely wrong.
I thought playing back outside might make him less of a liability but that doesn't seem to be the case.

He can't leave town fast enough for me. He's been a weak link for years, imo. Someone on another blog put it very well. He's not awful all the time... but when he makes mistakes, he goes big.

...yeah he was pretty hard to notice leading the team in tackles and sacking Rivers and adding 2 more QB knockdowns and hurries.

You were a much better poster when you disappeared.

maven
10-12-2011, 04:19 PM
Stockpiling picks to trade them away for Luck. Tebow may be part of that package.

You never know right?

ROFL!

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:21 PM
ALLsportsINTEL (http://twitter.com/#%21/ALLsportsINTEL) Rich Smith



NFL UPDATE - Source close to the Eagles and Broncos trade talks for D.J. Williams says talks have been ongoing since this morning.

---------------------------------

Primary source that I can find.

They offering DRC? :)

WolfpackGuy
10-12-2011, 04:22 PM
Could be a high 3rd rounder if it's with the Beagles.

LOL

gyldenlove
10-12-2011, 04:23 PM
One can only hope, we better resign Woodyard post-haste then.

TonyR
10-12-2011, 04:24 PM
Some tweets are saying it's the Eagles.

That would make sense. They are awful at the position. My concern is that they usually make pretty smart deals so I hope we don't get taken...

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 04:25 PM
If we do this we better ass **** them and take a 2nd and 5th round pick. After all, their trade of Kolb to AZ was just as crazy for what they got.

Dropping DJ for a ****ing 3rd?...or a 4th? EFX can GTFO.

Requiem
10-12-2011, 04:25 PM
Williams is scheduled to make 5 million and 6 million respectively in base salary (no bonuses) the next two years. Personally, I don't feel it is that much for him but I can understand if the team wants to move him. I just don't think it is a good move because it will necessitate high drafting or larger money acquisition for a comparable player in a position where we already needed help (ILB). I'm also worried it will mean Woodyard is starting the rest of the year, or Von Miller gets moved around and Haggan slides to the strong-side. I'm not sure if these are the right schematic adjustments we need to be making, but who knows. Perhaps they feel that Irving has earned a shot to play. . .

I will say this: There are some very interesting linebackers in this class, so I always welcome the addition of a future cornerstone. However, trading Williams for a third or fourth doesn't do us justice. If the team is the Eagles, they desperately need help. Snag a future selection or get a player in return as well.

If we want to talk underachievers, I will have no problem pointing to Elvis Dumervil who is raking in 14.5 million this year and will continue to have a large cap number through the portion of his contract. I'm not sure he deserves a million dollars for each "TACKLE" he will have this season.

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:28 PM
Williams is scheduled to make 5 million and 6 million respectively in base salary (no bonuses) the next two years. Personally, I don't feel it is that much for him but I can understand if the team wants to move him. I just don't think it is a good move because it will necessitate high drafting or larger money acquisition for a comparable player in a position where we already needed help (ILB).

A third or fourth doesn't do him justice.


If we want to talk underachievers, I will have no problem pointing to Elvis Dumervil who is raking in 14.5 million this year and will continue to have a large cap number through the portion of his contract.

Elvis just popped off 9 hurries a couple days ago though, bro.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:28 PM
...yeah he was pretty hard to notice leading the team in tackles and sacking Rivers and adding 2 more QB knockdowns and hurries.

You were a much better poster when you disappeared.

Sounds better than Patrick Peterson, who led the league in "amassed yardage while getting carried into the endzone" last week when Adrian Peterson trucked him twice.

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 04:28 PM
Elvis just popped off 9 hurries a couple days ago though, bro.

Yeah, he got no sacks but he ****ing dominated.

TonyR
10-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Eagles fans suggesting the source isn't very reliable. But some of their comments are interesting...

http://boards.philadelphiaeagles.com/topic/626132-another-trade-cooking/

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:32 PM
Sounds better than Patrick Peterson, who led the league in "amassed yardage while getting carried into the endzone" last week when Adrian Peterson trucked him twice.

...Is this where I claim "it wasn't what it looked like!" like you did when you got completely ass raped in your Beadles take?

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 04:34 PM
Eagles fans suggesting the source isn't very reliable. But some of their comments are interesting...

http://boards.philadelphiaeagles.com/topic/626132-another-trade-cooking/

ROFL!

So we'd trade them Dawkins too? That would be funny **** right there.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:36 PM
...Is this where I claim "it wasn't what it looked like!" like you did when you got completely ass raped in your Beadles take?

Right. Ha!

Histrionics wins every time.

But Patrick Peterson is a great tackler, isn't he?

If you weren't such a jackass to people all the time, I wouldn't keep reminding you about it.

RunSilentRunDeep
10-12-2011, 04:36 PM
ALLsportsINTEL? Has the Bleacher Report confirmed?

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:36 PM
Right. Ha!

Histrionics wins every time.

But Patrick Peterson is a great tackler, isn't he?

If you weren't such a jackass to people all the time, I wouldn't keep reminding you about it.

He didn't get benched on Sunday if that's what you're asking Ha!

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:37 PM
He didn't get benched on Sunday if that's what you're asking Ha!

And when I say "benched" I mean "benched AGAIN"

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:38 PM
And when I say "benched" I mean "benched AGAIN"

Who are you referring to?

theStifmeister
10-12-2011, 04:38 PM
hey can I get made fun of here?

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:39 PM
hey can I get made fun of here?

Yes. Your avatar looks like something out of 1986. ;)

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:40 PM
Who are you referring to?

http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

maven
10-12-2011, 04:41 PM
ALLsportsINTEL

????

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:41 PM
http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

Seriously...who are you crapping on with that post?

maven
10-12-2011, 04:42 PM
Seriously...who are you crapping on with that post?

Von Miller I presume

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:42 PM
Von Miller I presume

I'm not sure...he won't say who he is talking about.

Ray Finkle
10-12-2011, 04:43 PM
be worth it to see Socal do this :
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1238157980_scanners_-_head_explosion.gif

Dos Rios
10-12-2011, 04:43 PM
I'll drink to that.

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 04:45 PM
I'm not sure...he won't say who he is talking about.

Him and Orton were the only two benched...

It's fine, I realize you're not bright enough to add 2 and 2.

Don Flamenco
10-12-2011, 04:45 PM
...yeah he was pretty hard to notice leading the team in tackles and sacking Rivers and adding 2 more QB knockdowns and hurries.

You were a much better poster when you disappeared.


Rep

KevinJames
10-12-2011, 04:53 PM
I would rather trade him for a CB than a draft pick

Requiem
10-12-2011, 04:55 PM
Elvis just popped off 9 hurries a couple days ago though, bro.

I've always liked Elvis and his pass rushing abilities but I think the fact that he is going to be paid immensely for the rest of his contract (last year is a sub 10 million ear) he needs to be putting up some fantastic numbers. So far he has done nothing since getting paid. (Unfortunately due to injury, but STILL.)

gyldenlove
10-12-2011, 04:59 PM
I would swap him for Asante Samuel.

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 05:02 PM
I would swap him for Asante Samuel.

Anyone would.

There's a major issue with making this trade. I'd post it now but I'm very confident TJ is going to bring this subject up on the podcast so I'll save it for then so I have more to talk about.

hambone13
10-12-2011, 05:05 PM
...yeah he was pretty hard to notice leading the team in tackles and sacking Rivers and adding 2 more QB knockdowns and hurries.

You were a much better poster when you disappeared.

This. LOLHilarious!

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 05:07 PM
Him and Orton were the only two benched...

It's fine, I realize you're not bright enough to add 2 and 2.

Are you talking about a Bronco?

TheDave
10-12-2011, 05:09 PM
Wiki's got nothing, obviously fake.

ludo21
10-12-2011, 05:10 PM
not worth it. Keep DJ

bowtown
10-12-2011, 05:39 PM
not worth it. Keep DJ

Just to be clear, it's not worth what? I can think of a lot of things it would be worth.

Tim
10-12-2011, 05:53 PM
DJ for a 3rd or 4th would be a good deal for the team.

He is a great tackler and linebacker but his time is up, IMO woodyard makes more plays and is a better leader. And at some point I would hope Irving or Mohammad shows enough promise to play mlb or will.

elsid13
10-12-2011, 05:58 PM
Evidently this is the same guy that tweeted everyone that Willis (SF) was being traded to Philly this preseason and he had solid sources on it.

barryr
10-12-2011, 05:58 PM
If they could get a 3rd rounder, that would be great. I have always thought of him being overrated since he was a 1st rounder and I would expect more big plays from him, but for most of his career, they just haven't been there. Solid player, but not great and replaceable.

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 06:12 PM
I don't get this DJ hate. Try playing 4 positions under a new DC every ****ing year.

The ONLY anger I could get on his regard is his drinking and the crap penalty he pulled. He obviously wasn't all there last game but he still performed well.

Requiem
10-12-2011, 06:13 PM
I don't get this DJ hate. Try playing 4 positions under a new DC every ****ing year.

The ONLY anger I could get on his regard is his drinking and the crap penalty he pulled. He obviously wasn't all there last game but he still performed well.

A lot of people think it is an excuse, but I am with you on the defensive coordinator and various position switches he has had to endure. Had Williams been under a solid defensive coordinator and allowed to stay at WOLB, he could have been our Lance Briggs.

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 06:15 PM
I don't get this DJ hate. Try playing 4 positions under a new DC every ****ing year.

The ONLY anger I could get on his regard is his drinking and the crap penalty he pulled. He obviously wasn't all there last game but he still performed well.

A lot of people think it is an excuse, but I am with you on the defensive coordinator and various position switches he has had to endure. Had Williams been under a solid defensive coordinator and allowed to stay at WOLB, he could have been our Lance Briggs.

Personally I think the position changes have helped him grow into a better, headier player.

Requiem
10-12-2011, 06:17 PM
Personally I think the position changes have helped him grow into a better, headier player.

I think he has done a good job from what is asked of him. I certainly don't feel he needs to be moved.

TheDave
10-12-2011, 06:53 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1208001024/medenverpost_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/#!/cecillammey)

@cecillammey (http://twitter.com/#!/cecillammey)Cecil Lammey


talk of <S class=hash>#</S>broncos (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23broncos) LB DJ Williams going to <S class=hash>#</S>eagles (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23eagles) just a rumor at this point, 1 of my PHI sources says he has heard nothing about a trade

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 06:56 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1208001024/medenverpost_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/#!/cecillammey)

@cecillammey (http://twitter.com/#!/cecillammey)Cecil Lammey


talk of <S class=hash>#</S>broncos (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23broncos) LB DJ Williams going to <S class=hash>#</S>eagles (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23eagles) just a rumor at this point, 1 of my PHI sources says he has heard nothing about a trade

Cecil Lammey

@jkraklau77 all my sources say no deal, but if I were to GUESS it's draft picks or Samuel

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 07:01 PM
Cecil Lammey

DJs value is inflated locally, not THAT highly thought of around the league, GUESS a 3rd rounder

- - -

Ouch ><

McDman
10-12-2011, 07:33 PM
Him and Orton were the only two benched...

It's fine, I realize you're not bright enough to add 2 and 2.

Are you saying you'd rather have Peterson than Von?

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 07:35 PM
If they're looking to trade DJ right now it's about more than his play on the field. Something else is going on.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 07:43 PM
Cecil Lammey

DJs value is inflated locally, not THAT highly thought of around the league, GUESS a 3rd rounder

- - -

Ouch ><

He's not that highly thought of locally either. I think many of us would expect value around a 3rd or 4th for him. He's an average starting LB with off the field issues.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 07:49 PM
A thought just occurred to me.

If there is any truth to this, could it be to offset the extra money Tebow will end up making this season? Trading him for a pick or two would free up like 5 mil or so wouldn't it?

schaaf
10-12-2011, 07:50 PM
A thought just occurred to me.

If there is any truth to this, could it be to offset the extra money Tebow will end up making this season? Trading him for a pick or two would free up like 5 mil or so wouldn't it?

wow

orange crusher
10-12-2011, 08:16 PM
Evidently this is the same guy that tweeted everyone that Willis (SF) was being traded to Philly this preseason and he had solid sources on it.

Maybe he's got his rumors mixed up and we're trading DJ for Willis. :pray:

broncogary
10-12-2011, 08:28 PM
DJ for a 3rd or 4th would be a good deal for the team.

He is a great tackler and linebacker but his time is up, IMO woodyard makes more plays and is a better leader. And at some point I would hope Irving or Mohammad shows enough promise to play mlb or will.

I think Mohammad was cut. Don't know if he was re=signed to the PS.

DENVERDUI55
10-12-2011, 08:35 PM
I hope so. That would be a steal for a slightly better than average lb that doesn't make big plays.

vancejohnson82
10-12-2011, 08:39 PM
I think he is worth AT LEAST a 3rd....

then again I haven't understood a lot of the heat that DJ gets on this board....he is perhaps the 2nd most polarizing player on this board

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 08:41 PM
wow

Wow what? If they've already assessed Williams as a guy they don't see in their future plans, that could be enough to tip the scales for trading him now.

SoCalBronco
10-12-2011, 08:42 PM
This would be terrible if true. :(

http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/american-half-staff.jpg

vonqkilla
10-12-2011, 08:48 PM
Lol @ huntsman

I think mark cuban should be president.

As far as dj goes, itd be a good move to get younger, free up cash, get a pick, but also make us worse immediately.

I dont see how they can say we want to win now with this move. Maybe now they will finally use the R word in dove valley. I dont like it.

DENVERDUI55
10-12-2011, 08:59 PM
Dj for engelberger would be a great deal. An expensive salary dump for a drunk average lb. He is up for the most overrated bronco ever award. Guy makes zero plays.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 09:01 PM
Dj for engelberger would be a great deal. An expensive salary dump for a drunk average lb. He is up for the most overrated bronco ever award. Guy makes zero plays.

Didnt he have a sack last week?

Punisher
10-12-2011, 09:03 PM
Stockpiling picks to trade them away for Luck. Tebow may be part of that package.

this

vancejohnson82
10-12-2011, 09:03 PM
Dj for engelberger would be a great deal. An expensive salary dump for a drunk average lb. He is up for the most overrated bronco ever award. Guy makes zero plays.

this is either very funny....or you're retarded

SoCalBronco
10-12-2011, 09:04 PM
this is either very funny....or you're retarded

I'm betting the latter.

Powderaddict
10-12-2011, 09:14 PM
Lol @ huntsman

I think mark cuban should be president.

As far as dj goes, itd be a good move to get younger, free up cash, get a pick, but also make us worse immediately.

I dont see how they can say we want to win now with this move. Maybe now they will finally use the R word in dove valley. I dont like it.

It would make us a bit worse, but Woodyards play makes DJ expendable imo.

I don't want to see DJ go, but I wouldn't be devastated if he did.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-12-2011, 09:15 PM
this

No, not that.

Any trade (DJ, Lloyd, etc.), makes the team worse and gives them a stronger chance at Luck if Tebow falters. The additional picks are just a bonus. You're not stockpiling picks for Luck when StL is the only team who would trade out if they picked 1st overall, everyone else is picking Luck.

And no team is taking Tebow in a package for Luck. Are you ****ing serious? If you're picking 1st overall and need a QB, you're taking Luck and not trading out of the spot.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:25 PM
everyone else is picking Luck.


Carolina wouldn't and it's far from certain Jacksonville or Minnesota would. Teams don't pick QBs in the 1st round two years in a row.

vonqkilla
10-12-2011, 09:38 PM
Carolina wouldn't and it's far from certain Jacksonville or Minnesota would. Teams don't pick QBs in the 1st round two years in a row.

Well cam and ponder are a lot cheaper than bradford.

Indy would take him if peytons health deteriorates or doesn't get better.

Ponder would be a reasonable backup to luck.

New cba changed everything.

Rolandftw
10-12-2011, 09:43 PM
I don't think trading a bunch of players for picks is going to give the team a fair judgment on Tebow. I know Woodyard is a good LB too, but we would be very thin at the position if we made that trade.

I can see why they would want to do it... any young team rebuilding that has a chance to move older players that are replaceable for 2nd/3rd/4th rounders should. It's how you get better through the draft quicker.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-12-2011, 09:45 PM
Carolina wouldn't and it's far from certain Jacksonville or Minnesota would. Teams don't pick QBs in the 1st round two years in a row.

Carolina won't end up with the worst when all is said and done. Gabbert and Ponder aren't on the sane level as Luck and have rookie wage scale contracts.

vonqkilla
10-12-2011, 09:46 PM
I don't think trading a bunch of players for picks is going to give the team a fair judgment on Tebow. I know Woodyard is a good LB too, but we would be very thin at the position if we made that trade.

I can see why they would want to do it... any young team rebuilding that has a chance to move older players that are replaceable for 2nd/3rd/4th rounders should. It's how you get better through the draft quicker.

Our 53 would look ugly, have to go window shopping for scrubs.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:49 PM
Well cam and ponder are a lot cheaper than bradford.

Indy would take him if peytons health deteriorates or doesn't get better.

Ponder would be a reasonable backup to luck.

New cba changed everything.

No it didn't. Draft picks are a finite resource. Teams aren't going to draft the same position high two drafts in a row. They are going to want to develop their picks. Given the choice of replacing Ponder or Gabbert with Luck or getting a motherlode of extra picks to move down a couple slots, I think a lot of GMs will take the second option. Unless, that is, said GMs either change their minds about the QBs they've already drafted high, or assess Luck and really do come to the conclusion he's a once in a generation prospect that they simply can't pass up on.

maven
10-12-2011, 09:52 PM
Well cam and ponder are a lot cheaper than bradford.

Indy would take him if peytons health deteriorates or doesn't get better.

Ponder would be a reasonable backup to luck.

New cba changed everything.

Indy would definitely take him.

Carolina and St Louis will not. They could definitely use the picks. Now Jax and Minny are question marks. But, since rookie pay has been hugely cut, you can gamble and take 2 first round qb's back to back.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:53 PM
Gabbert and Ponder aren't on the sane level as Luck and have rookie wage scale contracts.

This isn't simply about wage scale. It's about resources. Now they could potentially trade them away for decent compensation, but it isn't going to come close to what they originally spent on them.

lonestar
10-12-2011, 09:54 PM
make it happen..

Hell a ham sandwich for Harris would be great..

unload his bloated contract and watch other do as good a job as he did for 20% of the price..

maven
10-12-2011, 10:00 PM
No it didn't. Draft picks are a finite resource. Teams aren't going to draft the same position high two drafts in a row.

Sure they can. They can trade, for example, Ponder to someone else.

OrangeSe7en
10-12-2011, 10:04 PM
this

You can't assume that any team would be willing to trade the pick. There needs to be multiple justifications other than just, "this is how we plan on getting Luck".

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 10:04 PM
Sure they can. They can trade, for example, Ponder to someone else.

And they will lose a lot of value in the process. I'm not saying it's not possible, but those particular GMs are going to have to believe that Luck is the second coming to so quickly toss aside their hand picked QBs from the previous year when they could just take the bonanza of picks instead.

maven
10-12-2011, 10:07 PM
And they will lose a lot of value in the process. I'm not saying it's not possible, but those particular GMs are going to have to believe that Luck is the second coming to so quickly toss aside their hand picked QBs from the previous year when they could just take the bonanza of picks instead.

Value gained in drafting Luck over Ponder. 1st round contracts are easy to trade now. Times have changed. If the organization feels they can be better with Luck over ponder in the long run, it's a small price to pay. Ship Ponder to someone else.

maven
10-12-2011, 10:09 PM
Trading Ponder or Gabbert would be a difficult decision because they could trade the #1 pick for a ton of picks in return.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 10:13 PM
Value gained in drafting Luck over Ponder. 1st round contracts are easy to trade now. Times have changed. If the organization feels they can be better with Luck over ponder in the long run, it's a small price to pay. Ship Ponder to someone else.

Neither Ponder or Gabbert would garner more than a 2nd rounder if they were put on the trading block so soon. That's a big loss in value. When you consider that you're also giving up the absurd amount of picks that you could get for Luck, he has to clearly and undisputedly be a future HoFer to take him in that situation. That or you have to lose faith in your current 1st round QB.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 10:14 PM
Trading Ponder or Gabbert would be a difficult decision because they could trade the #1 pick for a ton of picks in return.

Exactly. That was my point. The amount of ammo that could be gained to rebuild those struggling teams is huge.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-12-2011, 10:25 PM
Minnesota and Jacksonville aren't going to care about using a 1st on QBs 2 straight years. They aren't going to cry either that they might get a less than ideal return if they trade Ponder and Gabbert either. They will take what they can get and build around Luck. Denver will do the same with Tebow. There's a 1st round QB, and then there's Luck.

maven
10-12-2011, 10:27 PM
Exactly. That was my point. The amount of ammo that could be gained to rebuild those struggling teams is huge.

Yes, I know. I'm trying to tell you that teams now can take QB's back to back now in the 1st round. If the org values Luck highly over Gabbert and Ponder, you can select Luck and move the other.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 10:28 PM
Minnesota and Jacksonville aren't going to care about using a 1st on QBs 2 straight years. They aren't going to cry either that they might get a less than ideal return if they trade Ponder and Gabbert either. They will take what they can get and build around Luck. Denver will do the same with Tebow. There's a 1st round QB, and then there's Luck.

Please stop acting like your opinions are fact. They might do what you say. They might also decide to stick with the QBs they've been working with for a season and take a ****load of picks to trade down a couple slots.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 10:29 PM
Yes, I know. I'm trying to tell you that teams now can take QB's back to back now in the 1st round. If the org values Luck highly over Gabbert and Ponder, you can select Luck and move the other.

Agreed. It's an option. But it isn't a no brainer.

24champ
10-12-2011, 10:32 PM
...yeah he was pretty hard to notice leading the team in tackles and sacking Rivers and adding 2 more QB knockdowns and hurries.


Ding Ding Ding!

Rolandftw
10-12-2011, 10:37 PM
Our 53 would look ugly, have to go window shopping for scrubs.

Our 53 already look ugly. It'd just be a little worse depth wise.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-12-2011, 10:38 PM
Please stop acting like your opinions are fact. They might do what you say. They might also decide to stick with the QBs they've been working with for a season and take a ****load of picks to trade down a couple slots.

Guess I hit a nerve.

No GM who has Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder as their "QBOTF" is going to pass on Andrew Luck. Especially when Gabbert will have been the starter for almost all of the Jags' games and would be at worst winless or at best 2-12 as a starter, and Ponder was a massive reach. You can pretend all you want that one of those teams *might* take picks over drafting Luck, but it's not happening.

Gotta love the Interwebz GMs, I'll pass on Andrew Luck and roll the dice on CP or BG and draft picks. That's not happening in the real world.

Jekyll15Hyde
10-12-2011, 10:40 PM
Indy would definitely take him.

Carolina and St Louis will not. They could definitely use the picks. Now Jax and Minny are question marks. But, since rookie pay has been hugely cut, you can gamble and take 2 first round qb's back to back.

I have to think Minn is out. They reached so hard and early on Ponder that they have to be in love with him. Then again, they may have gotten some religion by seeing him through TC. I didnt pay much attention to how he looked in preseason

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 10:48 PM
Guess I hit a nerve.

No GM who has Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder as their "QBOTF" is going to pass on Andrew Luck. Especially when Gabbert will have been the starter for almost all of the Jags' games and would be at worst winless or at best 2-12 as a starter, and Ponder was a massive reach. You can pretend all you want that one of those teams *might* take picks over drafting Luck, but it's not happening.

Gotta love the Interwebz GMs, I'll pass on Andrew Luck and roll the dice on CP or BG and draft picks. That's not happening in the real world.

You didn't hit a nerve. I just don't like when people act like their opinions are fact. Something that seems to be a thing for you based off this post.

GMs don't pick QBs in the 1st round that they don't believe in. Clearly they believe that these guys are going to become franchise QBs to have drafted them as high as they did. But because you think Luck is the greatest college QB in history (or something to the effect) they must believe the same thing and discard the QB they've been working with for a year. C'mon man...

I mean it's definitely possible, but to act like it's inevitable is silly.

vancejohnson82
10-12-2011, 10:49 PM
Guess I hit a nerve.

No GM who has Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder as their "QBOTF" is going to pass on Andrew Luck. Especially when Gabbert will have been the starter for almost all of the Jags' games and would be at worst winless or at best 2-12 as a starter, and Ponder was a massive reach. You can pretend all you want that one of those teams *might* take picks over drafting Luck, but it's not happening.

Gotta love the Interwebz GMs, I'll pass on Andrew Luck and roll the dice on CP or BG and draft picks. That's not happening in the real world.

I don't know, dude

If I've got one of them and you offer me this years 1st, 3rd and 5th and then next years 1st....you can "roll the dice" on Luck

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 10:51 PM
I don't know, dude

If I've got one of them and you offer me this years 1st, 3rd and 5th and then next years 1st....you can "roll the dice" on Luck

And I would guess that Luck could draw a much better deal than that if the hype is any indication...

vancejohnson82
10-12-2011, 11:02 PM
And I would guess that Luck could draw a much better deal than that if the hype is any indication...

that was my minimum criteria...

you offer me more and we are in Mike Ditka/Ricky Williams land

The Joker
10-12-2011, 11:02 PM
I'd be happy enough with this.

Guy is almost 30, his greatest strength has always been his amazing athleticism and that's going to start deteriorating pretty soon I'd imagine. We're one of the worst teams in the league, we need to rebuild and getting some extra picks would be a good move IMO.

He's a decent player who could have been a really good one had his career gone a different way, but I think that ship has sailed.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 11:04 PM
that was my minimum criteria...

you offer me more and we are in Mike Ditka/Ricky Williams land

Which I fully expect at this point...

BroncoBuff
10-12-2011, 11:32 PM
No it didn't. Draft picks are a finite resource. Teams aren't going to draft the same position high two drafts in a row.

Not a hard-fast rule, especially since free agency. Shanahan drafted three CBs 1-2-3 in 2005, then three D-linemen in just 4 2007 picks. Lions took three 1st round WRs in four years, two of them overall #2 picks. Browns used back-to-back top 3 overall picks on D-linemen (both were Broncos 4 years later), Claussen then Newton with the Panthers, other examples.

Look closely sometime, analyze even recent history. I think you'll agree with me the draft is basically a crapshoot.

Lots of guys share your "finite resource" philosophy, SoCalBronco for one. Me, I prefer quality over quantity. I'd rather give Jim Goodman 5 draft picks than give Josh McDaniels 8.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 11:48 PM
Not a hard-fast rule, especially since free agency. Shanahan drafted three CBs 1-2-3 in 2005, then three D-linemen in just 4 2007 picks. Lions took three 1st round WRs in four years, two of them overall #2 picks. Browns used back-to-back top 3 overall picks on D-linemen (both were Broncos 4 years later), Claussen then Newton with the Panthers, other examples.

Look closely sometime, analyze even recent history. I think you'll agree with me the draft is basically a crapshoot.

Lots of guys share your "finite resource" philosophy, SoCalBronco for one. Me, I prefer quality over quantity. I'd rather give Jim Goodman 5 draft picks than give Josh McDaniels 8.

All those examples other than Newton/Clausen involve positions where 2 or more players of that position are on the field at once. And none of them involve drafting QBs in the 1st round two years in a row. And while Luck is an exceptional prospect to say that picking him is automatic for Minnesota or Jacksonville is just silly.

By the way, looking at the post you quoted I misspoke. I really meant QB, not any position. Well actually it's true of RB as well, but that's about it.

NUB
10-13-2011, 12:14 AM
I would be willing to trade him for a cornerback or a defensive tackle. Draft picks wont be worth it unless it's a 2nd, IMO. Williams is a productive player and a team veteran; you don't trade him for crappy draft picks.

lonestar
10-13-2011, 12:43 AM
I would be willing to trade him for a cornerback or a defensive tackle. Draft picks wont be worth it unless it's a 2nd, IMO. Williams is a productive player and a team veteran; you don't trade him for crappy draft picks.

A drunk and well who knows what else. Just a DUI away from major suspension.

Frankly his play has not been great since his rookie year since then tackle fount is high but then it has been mostly from behind after the perp has gotten a few yards.
His lack of big Plays for a loss says loads.

Now that said Mikey really screwed with his head moving him to what ever back seven spot he needed a warm body to fill.

Until late last year he had never had a blitz sack. For a guy that is making nigh on to 8 mil A year well is pretty pathetic. Imho

peacepipe
10-13-2011, 11:17 AM
Schefter was just on espn talking about a trade that would send DJ & Dawkins to eagles,but contracts seem to be the hold up.

BroncoInferno
10-13-2011, 11:29 AM
Schefter was just on espn talking about a trade that would send DJ & Dawkins to eagles,but contracts seem to be the hold up.

Did he mention what we would get if it happened?

Unless DJ & Dawkins restructure, I don't see how the Eagles could squeeze it under their cap after all the money they threw around this offseason.

gyldenlove
10-13-2011, 11:40 AM
Did he mention what we would get if it happened?

Unless DJ & Dawkins restructure, I don't see how the Eagles could squeeze it under their cap after all the money they threw around this offseason.

They have around 6 mill in cap space which would not be enough, they would probably have to move Asante Samuel to make it happen.

DENVERDUI55
10-13-2011, 11:42 AM
Denver should make that move and toss in a 30 pack to dj on plane ride over to thank him for his time here in Denver.

peacepipe
10-13-2011, 11:50 AM
Did he mention what we would get if it happened?

Unless DJ & Dawkins restructure, I don't see how the Eagles could squeeze it under their cap after all the money they threw around this offseason.

didn't catch the whole thing, I caught what I posted & somethingelse about it making sense cause of the need for leadership on the eagles defense.

Dedhed
10-13-2011, 11:55 AM
They have around 6 mill in cap space which would not be enough, they would probably have to move Asante Samuel to make it happen.

I would move DJ and DAwk for Asante and a draft pick in a heartbeat.

TonyR
10-13-2011, 11:58 AM
I didn't see the report but looking around it sounds more like Schefter suggested the trade as an interesting idea more than saying it was actually something in the works. So I'm not sure there's much to this.

UberBroncoMan
10-13-2011, 12:02 PM
Schefter was just on espn talking about a trade that would send DJ & Dawkins to eagles,but contracts seem to be the hold up.

Losing Dawkins makes me sad.

He just turned 38 today though...so yeah, he's nearing the end. Philly cold use him back on their D though for the leadership, etc.

If we give them DJ and Dawkins we better destroy then in what we get in return. They've got to be desperate at 1-4 with all their expectations. Desperate teams can do crazy stuff.

Doggcow
10-13-2011, 12:03 PM
I would move DJ and DAwk for Asante and a draft pick in a heartbeat.

Hell give me Asante no pick and I'm happy.

Would be a good deal for both teams IMO.

Eagles NEED some leadership bad, Dawkins gives them that, they also need years at LB...

UberBroncoMan
10-13-2011, 12:03 PM
Hell give me Asante no pick and I'm happy.

Would be a good deal for both teams IMO.

Eagles NEED some leadership bad, Dawkins gives them that, they also need years at LB...

Imagine if we traded Mays, DJ and Dawkins, haha.

We'd then have Miller - Irving - Woodyard with Mohamed brought back up from PS for depth. Complete youth movement.

peacepipe
10-13-2011, 12:07 PM
I didn't see the report but looking around it sounds more like Schefter suggested the trade as an interesting idea more than saying it was actually something in the works. So I'm not sure there's much to this.As I posted I only caught part of it,but you may be right. It sounded from what I heard to be too specific to be just idle talk.

Doggcow
10-13-2011, 12:07 PM
Imagine if we traded Mays, DJ and Dawkins, haha.

We'd then have Miller - Irving - Woodyard with Mohamed brought back up from PS for depth. Complete youth movement.

I'd be OK with Irving getting some time. I think he can play.

Also Haggan in the middle wouldn't be too bad IMO.

Woodyard is "OK" enough for me this year. He seems to make more plays than DJ does, but gives up more too.

UberBroncoMan
10-13-2011, 12:20 PM
I'd be OK with Irving getting some time. I think he can play.

Also Haggan in the middle wouldn't be too bad IMO.

Woodyard is "OK" enough for me this year. He seems to make more plays than DJ does, but gives up more too.

If we're going to test drive people and have a fail boat season I don't see much point in starting the 31 year old Haggan in mid over giving our rook 11 games of experience and seeing if he's our guy.

Taco John
10-13-2011, 12:35 PM
Word I just received is that DJ isn't going anywhere...

Rulon Velvet Jones
10-13-2011, 12:36 PM
Word I just received is that DJ isn't going anywhere...

I also texted a buddy that's close to some guys in the Eagles office and they're also saying "this isn't happening".

gyldenlove
10-13-2011, 12:37 PM
Word I just received is that DJ isn't going anywhere...

Word

gyldenlove
10-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Apparently to ensure this deal won't happen Asante Samuel locked himself inside the Eagles dressing by barricading the door with a putter and tying the handles together with rope - nobody was able to report why there was a putter and rope in the Eagles locker room to begin with.

Smilin Assassin
10-13-2011, 12:46 PM
Losing Dawkins makes me sad.

He just turned 38 today though...so yeah, he's nearing the end. Philly cold use him back on their D though for the leadership, etc.

If we give them DJ and Dawkins we better destroy then in what we get in return. They've got to be desperate at 1-4 with all their expectations. Desperate teams can do crazy stuff.

I think it was more of a suggestion on Adam's part to fix Philly.

Dawk is a proven leader who easily could have left us this offseason and didn't.

Youth movement or not, I don't see Fox trading 2 team captains away and I seriously doubt this would be something Dawk wants either, so I doubt he approached them on it.

bendog
10-13-2011, 01:40 PM
Apparently to ensure this deal won't happen Asante Samuel locked himself inside the Eagles dressing by barricading the door with a putter and tying the handles together with rope - nobody was able to report why there was a putter and rope in the Eagles locker room to begin with.

dog killin' paraphenilla

Shananahan
10-13-2011, 01:47 PM
Dawk is a proven leader who easily could have left us this offseason and didn't.
What?

Doggcow
10-13-2011, 01:49 PM
If we're going to test drive people and have a fail boat season I don't see much point in starting the 31 year old Haggan in mid over giving our rook 11 games of experience and seeing if he's our guy.

Didn't you get the memo? Tebow is starting. 12-4 season.

gyldenlove
10-13-2011, 01:55 PM
dog killin' paraphenilla

I wasn't going to go there, but my thought exactly.

broncocalijohn
11-13-2011, 02:50 PM
Saw just the 2nd half of todays game but seems he had miss tackles and left his guy on the fakegoalline run for the td pass. Socal bronco care to fill us in on why he is such a huge asset for this team besides the Miami game. Hopefully he was a total 1st half stud but I don't see it.

bronco militia
11-13-2011, 02:52 PM
dj did not have a good game today

theAPAOps5
11-13-2011, 02:53 PM
DJ had a soso game. Wouldn't say it wasn't good. He had great plays and then he had DJ plays.