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View Full Version : Schefter: "they decided not to pay him"...


Popps
10-12-2011, 03:37 PM
... on Orton's contract, and why the deal fell apart.

Of course, it's all a moot point now... as Orton won't be moved without a restructuring by Tuesday.

But, Shefter stated that Miami had a $27M contract extension in place for Orton, but then changed course and dropped out.


Curious as to why he's reporting this, while the prevailing opinion around here and other places was that Orton "rejected the trade."

Again, doesn't matter... but for the sake of having some insight into our front office and how they were operating.... who's right?


(Just on Sportscenter)

Tombstone RJ
10-12-2011, 03:41 PM
Sounds like Miami came to their senses before they made the trade. Good for Miami, bad for the Broncos...

UberBroncoMan
10-12-2011, 03:41 PM
They say the owner axed it. Smart move too because who knows what we would have gotten on top of dumping is salary (which might I add should be an awesome cap situation for next year.).

rbackfactory80
10-12-2011, 03:45 PM
I just think they woke up and realized they didn't need Orton to "Suck for Luck". They were bad enough on their own.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 03:52 PM
I just think they woke up and realized they didn't need Orton to "Suck for Luck". They were bad enough on their own.

Nobody loses on purpose in the NFL, and Miami had been building higher hopes for this season.

Popps
10-12-2011, 03:56 PM
I just think they woke up and realized they didn't need Orton to "Suck for Luck". They were bad enough on their own.

Well, this was before the season... and I doubt any of Miami brass thought they had a true shot at the #1 pick before they played a single game.

So, they may have "come to their senses," but why has it been conveyed around here that Orton or our front Office was the reason for this deal falling through?

Schefter seems to be saying it was Miami's call.

OrangeSe7en
10-12-2011, 04:06 PM
Sounds like Miami came to their senses before they made the trade. Good for Miami, bad for the Broncos...

Either that or they played Denver's front office by tying up their time and energy talking with Miami until Denver's other potential trade partners disappear at which point Miami tried to lowball Denver.

enjolras
10-12-2011, 04:09 PM
Well, this was before the season... and I doubt any of Miami brass thought they had a true shot at the #1 pick before they played a single game.

So, they may have "come to their senses," but why has it been conveyed around here that Orton or our front Office was the reason for this deal falling through?

Schefter seems to be saying it was Miami's call.

I never saw anyone definitively report that Orton was the sticking point. That was largely a rumor that was seized up by the Tebowites to discredit Orton.

maven
10-12-2011, 04:10 PM
RANK
2

MIAMI DOLPHINS (0-4)

The Dolphins remain at No. 2 for the second consecutive week. There are whispers that Miami could trade for Kyle Orton, which could prove to be disastrous for the team as they would figure to be more competitive and accidentally win a few games that could take them out of the race. Up next: at New York Jets

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...P11_hot_topics

Popps
10-12-2011, 04:13 PM
Either that or they played Denver's front office by tying up their time and energy talking with Miami until Denver's other potential trade partners disappear at which point Miami tried to lowball Denver.

Unlikely. There were still potentially other teams out there who needed a QB. As I recall, this happened towards the early part of PS, not the end.

Again... the question would be: where did this notion that we killed the trade come from? (Either Denver FO or Orton?) And why is Schefter saying something completely different, as if it's accepted fact?

Dr. Broncenstein
10-12-2011, 04:15 PM
Well the only thing crazier than paying Orton 9 million dollars is paying three times that amount.

ghwk
10-12-2011, 04:18 PM
RANK
2

MIAMI DOLPHINS (0-4)

The Dolphins remain at No. 2 for the second consecutive week. There are whispers that Miami could trade for Kyle Orton, which could prove to be disastrous for the team as they would figure to be more competitive and accidentally win a few games that could take them out of the race. Up next: at New York Jets

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...P11_hot_topics

On Moving the Chains yesterday one of tha guys said this trade likely woudn't happen. The feeling is the Miami regime will be fired at the end of the year so they won't let a lame duck coach tie the team up with an Orton.

maven
10-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Unlikely. There were still potentially other teams out there who needed a QB.

Were there? I do not recall any teams besides Miami. Arizona probably thought about it for a second, but then they quickly jumped on Kolb.

WolfpackGuy
10-12-2011, 04:20 PM
"They weren't stupid enough to pay him"

Requiem
10-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Ugh, I wish we could have made that trade. Just gotta wait for a 2013 Compensatory. . .

maven
10-12-2011, 04:33 PM
Just gotta wait for a 2013 Compensatory. . .

He doesn't see the field unless the player in front of him gets injured. I cannot think of one team that is going to give him multiple reps.

TonyR
10-12-2011, 04:37 PM
On Moving the Chains yesterday one of tha guys said this trade likely woudn't happen.

I'd say the chances are close to zero that they're interested in Orton. It makes no sense for them at this point. Like putting a Band-Aid on a severed limb.

Jay3
10-12-2011, 04:38 PM
It was reported weeks ago that the GM Ireland backed out. It was never the case that Kyle nixed the trade. The Dolphins nixed it.

They were higher on Henne than the media made out. They felt he deserved the shot this year, and Orton was only the Plan B.

Popps
10-12-2011, 04:44 PM
Were there? I do not recall any teams besides Miami. Arizona probably thought about it for a second, but then they quickly jumped on Kolb.

Well, I don't remember the exact signing dates of all players... but it seems to me as if Tennessee and Minnesota were looking right about that time? (End of July, early August.) I'm not sure when it became apparent that Indy needed help, but they could have been a possible party.

But, that's sort of a side story. The main question here again... isn't why Miami didn't sign him. So, the posts about them "not being stupid" etc. aren't relevant to the conversation.

The question is, why were Orton and the Broncos front office vilified for this trade not going through if Miami is the ones who pulled out?

maven
10-12-2011, 04:44 PM
They were higher on Henne than the media made out.

And they were stupid wrong going with Henne. Owner Ross is going to blow that organization up, and if they secure the #1 overall coaches will salivate over the gig.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-12-2011, 04:47 PM
Well, I don't remember the exact signing dates of all players... but it seems to me as if Tennessee and Minnesota were looking right about that time? (End of July, early August.) I'm not sure when it became apparent that Indy needed help, but they could have been a possible party.

But, that's sort of a side story. The main question here again... isn't why Miami didn't sign him. So, the posts about them "not being stupid" etc. aren't relevant to the conversation.

The question is, why were Orton and the Broncos front office vilified for this trade not going through if Miami is the ones who pulled out?

Because the fans are terrible. Am I doing it right?

frerottenextelway
10-12-2011, 04:57 PM
Bronco fans are awesome. We ran McDaniels and Orton out of town. I'm kinda proud of everyone.

TheDave
10-12-2011, 04:58 PM
Sounds like Schefter is trying to improve his access to Tebow...

strafen
10-12-2011, 05:00 PM
Well, this was before the season... and I doubt any of Miami brass thought they had a true shot at the #1 pick before they played a single game.

So, they may have "come to their senses," but why has it been conveyed around here that Orton or our front Office was the reason for this deal falling through?

Schefter seems to be saying it was Miami's call.I think you're into something, popps. Conspiracy!

Jay3
10-12-2011, 05:06 PM
I think you're into something, popps. Conspiracy!

Decker was secretly undermining Orton, too.

TotallyScrewed
10-12-2011, 07:25 PM
I'd say the chances are close to zero that they're interested in Orton. It makes no sense for them at this point. Like putting a Band-Aid on a severed limb.

More like concrete galoshes on severed limb(s).

bronco militia
10-12-2011, 07:51 PM
Bronco fans are awesome. We ran McDaniels and Orton out of town. I'm kinda proud of everyone.

High five everybody!

Popps
10-12-2011, 08:54 PM
I think you're into something, popps. Conspiracy!

Definitely not a conspiracy. I don't see who would have benefited from the misinformation, really.

But, again... the notion that Orton or our front office killed this deal has been purveyed here (and even on some credible blogs) as accepted fact.

Scores of people criticized the front office and chastised Orton for being "greedy" and blocking the deal. Now one of the most reputable reporters on Broncos happenings is saying (matter of factly) that Miami killed the deal, not us.

To me, that sheds a bit of a new light on the entire Tebow/Orton/EFX debate. It also illustrates just how gullible people are, I suppose. Also supports the notion that if enough people repeat something... other people start repeating it, and believing it themselves.

Hey, I bought it. I didn't do enough fact-checking, either. But it always sounded far-fetched to me that Orton would have turned down a multi-year deal in a city where the fans wanted him... to play for a one year deal for a city that didn't. It also wouldn't have made sense for the staff to initiate talks, and then pull out completely several days later... with supposed deal parameters reached.

No one is refuting Shefter, though. So, it looks like the wrong story was told enough until it was accepted as truth.

Probably the kind of thing we should remember the next time Denver is embroiled in a controversy.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:17 PM
Definitely not a conspiracy. I don't see who would have benefited from the misinformation, really.

But, again... the notion that Orton or our front office killed this deal has been purveyed here (and even on some credible blogs) as accepted fact.

Scores of people criticized the front office and chastised Orton for being "greedy" and blocking the deal. Now one of the most reputable reporters on Broncos happenings is saying (matter of factly) that Miami killed the deal, not us.

To me, that sheds a bit of a new light on the entire Tebow/Orton/EFX debate. It also illustrates just how gullible people are, I suppose. Also supports the notion that if enough people repeat something... other people start repeating it, and believing it themselves.

Hey, I bought it. I didn't do enough fact-checking, either. But it always sounded far-fetched to me that Orton would have turned down a multi-year deal in a city where the fans wanted him... to play for a one year deal for a city that didn't. It also wouldn't have made sense for the staff to initiate talks, and then pull out completely several days later... with supposed deal parameters reached.

No one is refuting Shefter, though. So, it looks like the wrong story was told enough until it was accepted as truth.

Probably the kind of thing we should remember the next time Denver is embroiled in a controversy.

It changes little in my eyes either way. I still hold this whole QB debacle against our FO. Either trade or cut Orton. That was their only two viable options. Instead they balked at the money they would lose and made the terrible decision to actually start him, doing nothing to help this franchise long-term or short-term in the process.

Popps
10-12-2011, 09:37 PM
It changes little in my eyes either way. I still hold this whole QB debacle against our FO. Either trade or cut Orton. That was their only two viable options. Instead they balked at the money they would lose and made the terrible decision to actually start him, doing nothing to help this franchise long-term or short-term in the process.

Starting him is somewhat irrelevant. They would have taken a massive hit by cutting him. So much so, that it made no sense to do so. If nothing else... for around the same price as cutting him, you could keep him on board. He's a guy who knew the offense and when your next option is Brady Quinn.... you keep him on board.

How is that not 100% logical, business-wise and strategy-wise. (Again, starting him is an entirely different conversation that has been well-covered.)

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:40 PM
Starting him is somewhat irrelevant. They would have taken a massive hit by cutting him. So much so, that it made no sense to do so. If nothing else... for around the same price as cutting him, you could keep him on board. He's a guy who knew the offense and when your next option is Brady Quinn.... you keep him on board.

How is that not 100% logical, business-wise and strategy-wise. (Again, starting him is an entirely different conversation that has been well-covered.)

Cutting him costs 6 million. Keeping him costs 9 million. Three million bucks seems like a significant sum to me. No one pays a backup 9 million dollars, especially not a team that has clearly made efforts to stay well below the cap. And don't forget that he made it very clear he had little interest in backing Tebow up at the end of last season.

Inkana7
10-12-2011, 09:47 PM
Cutting him costs 6 million. Keeping him costs 9 million. Three million bucks seems like a significant sum to me. No one pays a backup 9 million dollars, especially not a team that has clearly made efforts to stay well below the cap. And don't forget that he made it very clear he had little interest in backing Tebow up at the end of last season.

Mostly because he was hurt at the end of last season.

lonestar
10-12-2011, 09:49 PM
It changes little in my eyes either way. I still hold this whole QB debacle against our FO. Either trade or cut Orton. That was their only two viable options. Instead they balked at the money they would lose and made the terrible decision to actually start him, doing nothing to help this franchise long-term or short-term in the process.

Guess you have found it way to easy to spend someone elses money..

did you vote for hope and change? sounds like you did..

lonestar
10-12-2011, 09:51 PM
Cutting him costs 6 million. Keeping him costs 9 million. Three million bucks seems like a significant sum to me. No one pays a backup 9 million dollars, especially not a team that has clearly made efforts to stay well below the cap. And don't forget that he made it very clear he had little interest in backing Tebow up at the end of last season.

news flash at the time he was not a backup, nor was there any intention of him being one..

BTW if you look hard enough I'll bet there have been several $8.8 million back of QB's over the years..

Popps
10-12-2011, 09:53 PM
Cutting him costs 6 million. Keeping him costs 9 million. Three million bucks seems like a significant sum to me. No one pays a backup 9 million dollars, especially not a team that has clearly made efforts to stay well below the cap. And don't forget that he made it very clear he had little interest in backing Tebow up at the end of last season.

Well, if you don't truly have a trade partner... what Kyle had interest in is not relevant, either. (Unless he just flat out retires.)

So, if the difference was 3 mil (and that is a large sum).... you have to also factor in his replacement. Presumably, the staff was confident enough in Tebow to give him a shot at starting in the pre-season. But, after seeing what they saw on tape of Quinn last pre-sason, that couldn't have possibly been comfortable with him as the only other option.

So, the reality is... you're looking at dragging some vet QB off the street to compete with Quinn for back-up reps. Even Kerry Collins demanded several million. Hasselbeck got 3 years, 20 mil. I suppose there was probably some scrub we could have brought in for a million a year or so.

But, do the math at that point... you're saying (maybe) a couple mil, to bring in an unknown to back up a 2nd year QB who you really have no idea how he'll play.

Again, put all of that math together, and it just doesn't make sense to flat-out cut him. Not even financially.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:58 PM
Guess you have found it way to easy to spend someone elses money..

did you vote for hope and change? sounds like you did..

Weren't you just chastising others for this kind of crap?

And just so you know, not cutting Orton and playing Tebow enough to get his escalators is by far the most expensive option. Seriously, my approach would be saving them money the way things are currently playing out.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 10:00 PM
Well, if you don't truly have a trade partner... what Kyle had interest in is not relevant, either. (Unless he just flat out retires.)

So, if the difference was 3 mil (and that is a large sum).... you have to also factor in his replacement. Presumably, the staff was confident enough in Tebow to give him a shot at starting in the pre-season. But, after seeing what they saw on tape of Quinn last pre-sason, that couldn't have possibly been comfortable with him as the only other option.

So, the reality is... you're looking at dragging some vet QB off the street to compete with Quinn for back-up reps. Even Kerry Collins demanded several million. Hasselbeck got 3 years, 20 mil. I suppose there was probably some scrub we could have brought in for a million a year or so.

But, do the math at that point... you're saying (maybe) a couple mil, to bring in an unknown to back up a 2nd year QB who you really have no idea how he'll play.

Again, put all of that math together, and it just doesn't make sense to flat-out cut him. Not even financially.

Quinn would've been fine as the backup. If Tebow goes down, considering how bad this team is, who the backup is really doesn't matter. Quinn is easily as good as Kerry Collins right now. For whatever that's worth. This team really needed to move on from Orton. They still do.

maven
10-12-2011, 10:02 PM
BTW if you look hard enough I'll bet there have been several $8.8 million back of QB's over the years..

8.8 million backup? I highly doubt that. I cannot think of any backup earning that much coin in one year.

Popps
10-12-2011, 10:21 PM
8.8 million backup? I highly doubt that. I cannot think of any backup earning that much coin in one year.

Again, he was going to be an 8.8 mil back-up or a 6 mil player for another team. (with us having a hole at back up QB )

So, unless you have financial info to the contrary... The notion of cutting him was simply not realistic.

ol#7
10-13-2011, 03:25 AM
Maybe this is just a semantics argument, but its not as if that reported 27 mil contract came out of thin air. I have a feeling thats what Ortons agent was trying to negotiate and the phins backed off from that amount even though it was on the table. Had the contract been more palatable he is probably QB'ing the 1 win Dolphins right now. I think the owner just balked at the last moment after it had been negotiated. Dont see a ton of blame from the Orton Camp or the Dolphins for coming to there senses, but had he asked for less it may have worked in his favor long run.

Northman
10-13-2011, 05:50 AM
Had the contract been more palatable he is probably QB'ing the 1 win Dolphins right now. I think the owner just balked at the last moment after it had been negotiated.

^This

You cant blame people for "coming down on Orton/FO" when all the information you have to go is that "Orton backed out of the deal". I mean, this was MONTHS ago and we are only now hearing a different version of the deal so what do you really expect? If the media didnt come out right away and debunk the rumors than people will ride with what they got. But in the end Miami didnt feel that Kyle was worth the asking price he was trying to get which is smart on their part. They are looking at our situation now and laughing because they came so close to pulling the trigger for him.

cmhargrove
10-13-2011, 05:57 AM
Maybe Miami decided not to pay him, but if the Broncos beat Miami next weekend, the fans will really be pissed. I bet the Miami boo birds will be in full effect in the second half.

I also respect how Kyle is handling this whole thing. There is enough media circus, and he has decided to come to work with his hard hat on and not make an issue here (albeit for a nice salary). However, there has been so much negative drama in Denver over the past 5 years - it would be really nice to see things go "positive" for the rest of this season.

DrFate
10-13-2011, 06:14 AM
So Miami was unwilling to pay what Orton wanted. How is this not on Orton?

If he was willing to take a lower deal, he'd be in Miami. Isn't that been fact for a couple months now?

What am I missing?

alkemical
10-13-2011, 06:17 AM
The Sword Skanking in MIA would have been epic brother, epic.

McDman
10-13-2011, 06:55 AM
Well, if you don't truly have a trade partner... what Kyle had interest in is not relevant, either. (Unless he just flat out retires.)

So, if the difference was 3 mil (and that is a large sum).... you have to also factor in his replacement. Presumably, the staff was confident enough in Tebow to give him a shot at starting in the pre-season. But, after seeing what they saw on tape of Quinn last pre-sason, that couldn't have possibly been comfortable with him as the only other option.

So, the reality is... you're looking at dragging some vet QB off the street to compete with Quinn for back-up reps. Even Kerry Collins demanded several million. Hasselbeck got 3 years, 20 mil. I suppose there was probably some scrub we could have brought in for a million a year or so.

But, do the math at that point... you're saying (maybe) a couple mil, to bring in an unknown to back up a 2nd year QB who you really have no idea how he'll play.

Again, put all of that math together, and it just doesn't make sense to flat-out cut him. Not even financially.

One thing Schlereth said was that they fully planned on going with Tebow until they saw how he looked when he came back from the break.

lonestar
10-13-2011, 07:30 AM
Weren't you just chastising others for this kind of crap?

And just so you know, not cutting Orton and playing Tebow enough to get his escalators is by far the most expensive option. Seriously, my approach would be saving them money the way things are currently playing out.

I agree that Orton to a team the fans wanted Jim would have been best for all.

But I do not believe that the money side had anything to donwith it other than Orton wanting a long term deal.
Frankly would you change jobs for less money?

Why anyone would do so is beyond dumb.

I know loads if folks hate the guy for various reasons mostly because he replaced jaysus. The other prime reason is Josh stuck the deal for him.

But that is bunk IMO given the same skill set surrounding him he could put up the same QBR as most in the league.

I still believe that jaysus would nit have done much better than he did in the first year considering eveyome on the team including the coaches was learning a new scheme. In fact I think jaysus may have done worse because he would have been frustrated in a scheme that is a very controlled passing scheme. Jaysus loves to force balls into tights spots and fumbling the rock. In other words a TO machine.

That would have went over like a turd in the pool. Probably one of the reasons he asked for a trade the day Josh was announced knowing that he could not handle being chastised for turn overs.

Rohirrim
10-13-2011, 07:54 AM
Maybe Miami decided not to pay him, but if the Broncos beat Miami next weekend, the fans will really be pissed. I bet the Miami boo birds will be in full effect in the second half.

I also respect how Kyle is handling this whole thing. There is enough media circus, and he has decided to come to work with his hard hat on and not make an issue here (albeit for a nice salary). However, there has been so much negative drama in Denver over the past 5 years - it would be really nice to see things go "positive" for the rest of this season.

Dreamer. ;D

Northman
10-13-2011, 08:14 AM
Bronco fans are awesome. We ran McDaniels and Orton out of town. I'm kinda proud of everyone.

Cant get better unless you cut out the dead weight.

Crushaholic
10-13-2011, 08:15 AM
Frankly would you change jobs for less money?



Less money, in exchange for respect? I probably would do it. Orton was never given a chance by many of the Denver fans, who are deluded in thinking that we can automatically find another Elway. Tebow better prove that he's the real deal, or he'll suffer the same wrath...

Abqbronco
10-13-2011, 08:17 AM
news flash at the time he was not a backup, nor was there any intention of him being one..

BTW if you look hard enough I'll bet there have been several $8.8 million back of QB's over the years..

I'll bet there aren't any. I'm not going to look hard enough though. As a matter of fact, I'm not going to look at all. Instead, I'm going to let my faith in common sense guide me on this one.

Northman
10-13-2011, 08:18 AM
Less money, in exchange for respect? I probably would do it. Orton was never given a chance by many of the Denver fans, who are deluded in thinking that we can automatically find another Elway. Tebow better prove that he's the real deal, or he'll suffer the same wrath...

Good thing for Kyle he doesnt care what the fans think otherwise he might actually let it affect his play.

bronco militia
10-13-2011, 08:20 AM
Good thing for Kyle he doesnt care what the fans think otherwise he might actually let it affect his play.

this^

bendog
10-13-2011, 08:24 AM
EFX have this franchise in dissaray and the laughing stock of the NFL and every fan. I weep.

strafen
10-13-2011, 08:29 AM
Less money, in exchange for respect? I probably would do it. Orton was never given a chance by many of the Denver fans, who are deluded in thinking that we can automatically find another Elway. Tebow better prove that he's the real deal, or he'll suffer the same wrath...I don't know about you or anybody else, but I already knew Orton sucked before he landed in Denver.
So, I'm pretty sure a few others knew that as well.
And just to prove how ridiculous that statement (in bold) is, do you really think WE Broncos fans are going to be looking a for the next Elway off the waiver wire or in the FA market?
Nobody with a sane mind will ever compare Orton to Elway in any way shape or form...
Are you ****ting me?

DrFate
10-13-2011, 08:37 AM
I don't know about you or anybody else, but I already knew Orton sucked before he landed in Denver.

The whole notion is comedy gold, honestly. Orton lost multiple QB competitions to Rex Grossman, and was on the verge of being unemployed before McDaniels 'hand picked' him to be the Broncos QB - only a year later McD ponied up a pile of picks to draft his replacement in Tebow.

He was rifraf in Chicago, and the only guy who wanted him was ready to replace him after a single season. What does that tell you?