PDA

View Full Version : McCoy Talks Tebow Strategy


epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Good stuff.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Making-a-Move/2841cf5a-a8cf-493c-a312-c93158f66126#?id=d3f35312-417a-477e-bba3-96bd9bbdcbe3

Greatspirits
10-12-2011, 04:30 PM
Sorry! I hope Tebow doesn't win one game, that way we can draft a real franchise QB next year and get this franchise back on the right track!!

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:33 PM
Sorry! I hope Tebow doesn't win one game, that way we can draft a real franchise QB next year and get this franchise back on the right track!!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_i1ZjNkR4id4/RqD408vEZUI/AAAAAAAAAF8/iCH7NIKeCkA/s320/Troll_Restless72119.jpg

mwill07
10-12-2011, 04:36 PM
Sorry! I hope Tebow doesn't win one game, that way we can draft a real franchise QB next year and get this franchise back on the right track!!

is there not a better thread for this comment?

I know its probably too much to ask, but it would be really great for a thread to not devolve into "Tebow sucks" or "Tebow rulez".

Just once.

rbackfactory80
10-12-2011, 04:36 PM
I think it's horrible they say they "hope" he can help them win. Why not say "we believe Tim will do great things as our starting QB".

Since he gets basically 0 support from the media I would hope he can get some from the team. I mean c'mon, they supported Orton.

Smiling Assassin27
10-12-2011, 04:42 PM
Yeah, these guys need to convey a message of confidence, commitment, but also expectation regarding Tebow.

What Fox should say: We know Tebow has the talent and football mind to be successful and we want to see--in these next 11 weeks--a translation of those things to the field. We expect him to develop and improve weekly and we plan to give him every advantage we can with respect to the offense so that he does.

God Bless. ;)

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 04:44 PM
I think it's horrible they say they "hope" he can help them win. Why not say "we believe Tim will do great things as our starting QB".

Since he gets basically 0 support from the media I would hope he can get some from the team. I mean c'mon, they supported Orton.

I didn't read it that way.

I think that the team has done so poor on so many levels that they aren't under any delusions about what the team is capable of.

MacGruder
10-12-2011, 04:58 PM
I think it's horrible they say they "hope" he can help them win. Why not say "we believe Tim will do great things as our starting QB".

Since he gets basically 0 support from the media I would hope he can get some from the team. I mean c'mon, they supported Orton.

I think it shows their own inability to adapt to Tebow's unique abilities... This is the whole reason they started Kyle over Tebow in the first place..

Flex Gunmetal
10-12-2011, 05:02 PM
Sorry! I hope Tebow doesn't win one game, that way we can draft a real franchise QB next year and get this franchise back on the right track!!

Please go hopeless troll.

Jay3
10-12-2011, 05:22 PM
I think it's horrible they say they "hope" he can help them win. Why not say "we believe Tim will do great things as our starting QB".

Since he gets basically 0 support from the media I would hope he can get some from the team. I mean c'mon, they supported Orton.

But it fit the context -- the "hope" comment came right after Goodman had just said "It's not Orton's fault, we're all at fault." He was emphasizing that the 1-4 record cannot be hung on Kyle. So he said he felt bad that Kyle was taking the fall.

Then right after that he said at the same time he's excited for Tebow, getting his shot. And in that context, he said he "hopes" they can somehow turn it around and get more wins. If he had said he believes replacing the quarterback will get more wins, it would completely undermine what he just said about Kyle not being the cause.

It's like he was saying "the losses are because we're all playing lousy, but I hope the change at quarterback can spark us all to play better."

TheReverend
10-12-2011, 05:23 PM
Just finished listening and I must've missed the "strategy". He said a lot of things while always saying nothing. Was borderline Shanahan presser, imo.

Dedhed
10-12-2011, 05:24 PM
McCoy seems to have the personality of dry paint.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 05:33 PM
But it fit the context -- the "hope" comment came right after Goodman had just said "It's not Orton's fault, we're all at fault." He was emphasizing that the 1-4 record cannot be hung on Kyle. So he said he felt bad that Kyle was taking the fall.

Then right after that he said at the same time he's excited for Tebow, getting his shot. And in that context, he said he "hopes" they can somehow turn it around and get more wins. If he had said he believes replacing the quarterback will get more wins, it would completely undermine what he just said about Kyle not being the cause.

It's like he was saying "the losses are because we're all playing lousy, but I hope the change at quarterback can spark us all to play better."

Goodman should have talked about how he let the team down on that third down that led to the FG that put the game practically out of reach late in the fourth.

maven
10-12-2011, 05:34 PM
I think it's horrible they say they "hope" he can help them win. Why not say "we believe Tim will do great things as our starting QB".

Since he gets basically 0 support from the media I would hope he can get some from the team. I mean c'mon, they supported Orton.

Maybe because they do not?

rbackfactory80
10-12-2011, 05:35 PM
But it fit the context -- the "hope" comment came right after Goodman had just said "It's not Orton's fault, we're all at fault." He was emphasizing that the 1-4 record cannot be hung on Kyle. So he said he felt bad that Kyle was taking the fall.

Then right after that he said at the same time he's excited for Tebow, getting his shot. And in that context, he said he "hopes" they can somehow turn it around and get more wins. If he had said he believes replacing the quarterback will get more wins, it would completely undermine what he just said about Kyle not being the cause.

It's like he was saying "the losses are because we're all playing lousy, but I hope the change at quarterback can spark us all to play better."


I guess I am looking at it in "context" of the entire situation. It just seems they could be a little more supportive.

CEH
10-12-2011, 05:52 PM
Goodman should have talked about how he let the team down on that third down that led to the FG that put the game practically out of reach late in the fourth.

No way that was one of the best passes I've ever seen at mile high. From my vantage point in the North end zon it looked like Rivers just threw the ball away way but he knew exactly where to throw it long before Floyd even decided to come out of his break. Sometimes the other guy is just better. On that play Rivers was just better.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 06:05 PM
No way that was one of the best passes I've ever seen at mile high. From my vantage point in the North end zon it looked like Rivers just threw the ball away way but he knew exactly where to throw it long before Floyd even decided to come out of his break. Sometimes the other guy is just better. On that play Rivers was just better.

It was a great throw. No doubt. Very deflating as a Bronco fan because it broke our momentum.

CEH
10-12-2011, 07:45 PM
It was a great throw. No doubt. Very deflating as a Bronco fan because it broke our momentum.

I agree. I knew if we got the ball back with 3 and change left we were going to win. After two really bad passes he pulls that out of his ass

Rivers is like 11-2 against Denver.

Dedhed
10-12-2011, 08:05 PM
I agree. I knew if we got the ball back with 3 and change left we were going to win. After two really bad passes he pulls that out of his ass

Rivers is like 11-2 against Denver.
This is a part of the reason I'm excited to watch Tebow. He's going to make mistakes and look downright terrible at times, but he's got the ability to make plays that demoralize a defense. In short he has the ability to overcome mistakes.

With Orton I always felt like that we were doomed as soon as something went wrong because he just doesn't have the ability to make a big play at any time. If he stayed on schedule and in rhythm things were sometimes ok, but as soon as there was a bump in the road, it was like "uh oh".

TotallyScrewed
10-12-2011, 08:05 PM
If everyone will play with the passion that was theirs in the second half...Suck for Luck won't even be close to needed.

Dedhed
10-12-2011, 08:11 PM
If everyone will play with the passion that was theirs in the second half...Suck for Luck won't even be close to needed.

The thing about Tebow is that he has the potential to mean far more to a franchise than Luck does if he can win games in the NFL.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2011, 08:13 PM
I guess I am looking at it in "context" of the entire situation. It just seems they could be a little more supportive.

More supportive than making him the starter?

Jesus, at some ****ing point he's going to have to go out there and perform. I think he can. I hope he does. None of that has any bearing on whether or not he will.

Christ almighty. Not everything is "undermining" Tebow. Just let the kid play.

Jay3
10-12-2011, 08:14 PM
Tebow is always going to be murder to stop in the 4th quarter. He has world class stamina (like Lance Armstrong level), so he can keep it up for 60 minutes.

Put him back in shotgun in a 2 minute offense, and he can just constantly look to throw, or take off and get 10+ yards. Most guys get tired. He doesn't because of his training regimen and genetic talent.

It means you have a puncher's chance in every game, because it will always end with a wild ride if the Broncos are behind.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 08:18 PM
This is a part of the reason I'm excited to watch Tebow. He's going to make mistakes and look downright terrible at times, but he's got the ability to make plays that demoralize a defense. In short he has the ability to overcome mistakes.

With Orton I always felt like that we were doomed as soon as something went wrong because he just doesn't have the ability to make a big play at any time. If he stayed on schedule and in rhythm things were sometimes ok, but as soon as there was a bump in the road, it was like "uh oh".

I agree. Its a totally different feel with Tebow out there.

When the offensive calls are good and Tebow is getting to mix up the run and the pass, you feel like the Broncos can move the ball up and down the field pretty consistently.

I'm really interested to see what the offense looks like now that Tebow gets to practice with the ones. I imagine that about 5 weeks or so down the line, once players and coaches start getting into the flow of the new QB, that we'll really see some special moments. McCoy will have a good base knowledge of how to use Tebow to take advantage of defensive adjustments and it will put the opposition in some pickles.

Tebow throws such a great deep ball. Its going to be fun watching Demaryius run the fly while Decker, Lloyd, and Royal work the short and intermediate routes. Teebs in the shotgun with 4-wide and 1-tight will be fun to watch.

Its great to be excited to be a Broncos fan again.

broncswin
10-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Tebow is always going to be murder to stop in the 4th quarter. He has world class stamina (like Lance Armstrong level), so he can keep it up for 60 minutes.

Put him back in shotgun in a 2 minute offense, and he can just constantly look to throw, or take off and get 10+ yards. Most guys get tired. He doesn't because of his training regimen and genetic talent.

It means you have a puncher's chance in every game, because it will always end with a wild ride if the Broncos are behind.

Don't know why, but this seems to remind me of some other guy......7

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2011, 08:25 PM
[/B]

Don't know why, but this seems to remind me of some other guy......7

Let's not go crazy. Seriously.

More accurate:
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/873630/jake_plummer_large.jpg

If Tebow is as good as that guy was in Denver, I'm going to be ****ing THRILLED.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 08:26 PM
[/B]

Don't know why, but this seems to remind me of some other guy......7

Gotta love those guys that hate to lose so bad that they fight until the clock runs out.

Plummer was really the last guy we had who had that in him. He just didn't have the focus.

Tebow has it.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 08:28 PM
I have mixed feelings about McCoy. Sometimes it seems like he's calling good plays, and then he goes on a tear of bubble screens and the like and he loses me. Seriously Mike, enough with the bubble screens...

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 08:31 PM
Let's not go crazy. Seriously.

More accurate:
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/873630/jake_plummer_large.jpg

If Tebow is as good as that guy was in Denver, I'm going to be ****ing THRILLED.

Tebow is far more gifted as a football player than Jake Plummer. He's not as good as Plummer was presently, but his ceiling is a lot higher than the level of Jake the Snake.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2011, 08:35 PM
Tebow is far more gifted as a football player than Jake Plummer. He's not as good as Plummer was presently, but his ceiling is a lot higher than the level of Jake the Snake.

And that's fine, and I don't disagree with you.

But I think that's a reasonable goal for him to strive for. If he surpasses it and becomes as good (or even close to as good) as the greatest player to ever wear the uniform, that's marvelous. But setting him up as "ZOMG he's Elway!" is setting him up for failure, if nowhere else than in our own minds.

He's got a similar playing style to Jake. He's got a similar playing style to John. And while the sky's the limit, athletically, a lot has to happen for him to reach Elway-level rare air.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 08:40 PM
And that's fine, and I don't disagree with you.

But I think that's a reasonable goal for him to strive for. If he surpasses it and becomes as good (or even close to as good) as the greatest player to ever wear the uniform, that's marvelous. But setting him up as "ZOMG he's Elway!" is setting him up for failure, if nowhere else than in our own minds.

He's got a similar playing style to Jake. He's got a similar playing style to John. And while the sky's the limit, athletically, a lot has to happen for him to reach Elway-level rare air.

Oh I'm not saying he'll be as good as Elway. I'm just saying he's got a higher ceiling than a slightly above average QB with a penchant for big plays and comebacks from time to time. Elway comparisons are way too much. Honestly I think they would be too much for Luck if we drafted him at #1. Comparisons to a player like that has to be earned on the field, no matter who you are or how talented you are.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 08:41 PM
I have mixed feelings about McCoy. Sometimes it seems like he's calling good plays, and then he goes on a tear of bubble screens and the like and he loses me. Seriously Mike, enough with the bubble screens...

I'm not a fan of the bubble screen either, especially given that the Broncos haven't had a guy on the field who can be counted on to make the DB miss.

Tebow has a strong arm. With enough practice, he'll be able to get the ball there on time. That's a rhythm throw, though. Its something that you have to have a billion reps behind to make it clean enough to run consistently in the pros. Its probably not a good idea to run that play when you throw an unpracticed Tebow out on the field in the second half.

Play2win
10-12-2011, 08:44 PM
I don't believe anybody in the history of the NFL could deliver a pure strike better than Elway, and, believe it or not, that includes Tebow.

rbackfactory80
10-12-2011, 08:44 PM
More supportive than making him the starter?

Jesus, at some ****ing point he's going to have to go out there and perform. I think he can. I hope he does. None of that has any bearing on whether or not he will.

Christ almighty. Not everything is "undermining" Tebow. Just let the kid play.


Why such the harsh reply brah??? I am just supporting our quarterback. That's what I do.^5

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 08:45 PM
I'm not a fan of the bubble screen either, especially given that the Broncos haven't had a guy on the field who can be counted on to make the DB miss.

Tebow has a strong arm. With enough practice, he'll be able to get the ball there on time. That's a rhythm throw, though. Its something that you have to have a billion reps behind to make it clean enough to run consistently in the pros. Its probably not a good idea to run that play when you throw an unpracticed Tebow out on the field in the second half.

I'd rather it be removed from the playbook altogether personally. Seems like a waste of Tebow's natural talents, and like you say we have no receivers that can make much of it. Honestly I just hate the play. NE does it great. We aren't NE.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 08:46 PM
I don't believe anybody in the history of the NFL could deliver a pure strike better than Elway, and, believe it or not, that includes Tebow.

It's certainly a short list. I'll say that much.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 08:47 PM
Oh I'm not saying he'll be as good as Elway. I'm just saying he's got a higher ceiling than a slightly above average QB with a penchant for big plays and comebacks from time to time. Elway comparisons are way too much. Honestly I think they would be too much for Luck if we drafted him at #1. Comparisons to a player like that has to be earned on the field, no matter who you are or how talented you are.

Elway is arguably the GOAT at any position on the field.

You don't want to slap those comparisons on anyone (like we have done in Denver to every QB who has come through here...really unfairly to Jake, who in retrospect was really successful here).

But you can say that Tebow adds that same element that Elway brought...that transcendent kind of thing thats hard to quantify. Tebow has a knack for coming up with the big play.

Its going to happen one day where the Broncos win a close game when Tebow takes off running, lowers his pads and plows through a linebacker to score the game winner. When that happens, Broncos fans won't want another QB.

Those are the kinds of plays that Tebow makes...those 15-yard scrambling runs where he shows uncanny vision and feet and then he identifies the target between he and the goal line and just blows the guy backward.

Having a QB like that is something that nobody else has. The gladiator mentality is one that will make Broncos fans and teammates endeared to him over time.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 08:50 PM
I'd rather it be removed from the playbook altogether personally. Seems like a waste of Tebow's natural talents, and like you say we have no receivers that can make much of it. Honestly I just hate the play. NE does it great. We aren't NE.

Yeah, they have that Brady guy.

Manning has never been a bubble screen guy, though.

Jay3
10-12-2011, 08:52 PM
If Tebow can play as good as Plummer, he will be elite. Because Tebow actually has the body, the quickness, and stamina to out-Plummer Plummer.

Plummer was an odd one -- great mobility and play-making ability, but it didn't really come from athletic superiority. It was just how he played the game.

Jay3
10-12-2011, 08:54 PM
Apparently, bubble screens serve an important purpose to keep the defense spread out and not crashing down from the edges. But they don't seem to help at any level.

I'd prefer to see some option tosses out on the edge to do that.

That play Cam and Deangelo ran on Sunday has got everybody talking (Gruden even mentioned it this morning). Wicked reverse pivot by Cam, counter action, toss to Deangelo.

With Knowshon, you could do some real damage with some tosses out there. Bill Walsh believed in the toss instead of the bubble screen to stretch out the D.

broncswin
10-12-2011, 08:58 PM
Let's not go crazy. Seriously.

More accurate:
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/873630/jake_plummer_large.jpg

If Tebow is as good as that guy was in Denver, I'm going to be ****ing THRILLED.

Seriously Mr. Orton?

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 09:01 PM
If Tebow can play as good as Plummer, he will be elite. Because Tebow actually has the body, the quickness, and stamina to out-Plummer Plummer.

Plummer was an odd one -- great mobility and play-making ability, but it didn't really come from athletic superiority. It was just how he played the game.

Plummer's problems were arm strength and focus. Tebow has neither of those problems.

Tebow's problems right now are just being mentally up to speed as a pocket passer. Thats something that I am very confident that will be ironed out with time and exposure. We saw on that last play against the Chargers that Tebow is physically able to be a step ahead of the players that get into the backfield. What he needs to do next is to become intellectually a step ahead of the defensive backfield.

Tebow's instincts and physical gifts translate at this level. That's big.

Looking down the road 2-3 years, I see Tebow as fully comfortable with defenses and able to take advantage of them consistently. He really could be a great player because he isn't lacking anything physically. Its all upstairs that he needs to get in line. And given the guy's motivation, commitment, and will to win...does anyone really think that given the experience that he will not be able to gain that mental advantage at some point?

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:01 PM
If Tebow can play as good as Plummer, he will be elite. Because Tebow actually has the body, the quickness, and stamina to out-Plummer Plummer.

Plummer was an odd one -- great mobility and play-making ability, but it didn't really come from athletic superiority. It was just how he played the game.

Plummer's two big downfalls as far as I'm concerned: sub-par arm strength and a lack of football smarts. They really showed up sometimes. The guy was terrible at reading defenses, and really never could deliver the ball downfield with any velocity or accuracy. Tebow doesn't seem to have either of those problems.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:03 PM
Plummer's problems were arm strength and focus. Tebow has neither of those problems.

Tebow's problems right now are just being mentally up to speed as a pocket passer. Thats something that I am very confident that will be ironed out with time and exposure. We saw on that last play against the Chargers that Tebow is physically able to be a step ahead of the players that get into the backfield. What he needs to do next is to become intellectually a step ahead of the defensive backfield.

Tebow's instincts and physical gifts translate at this level. That's big.

Looking down the road 2-3 years, I see Tebow as fully comfortable with defenses and able to take advantage of them consistently. He really could be a great player because he isn't lacking anything physically. Its all upstairs that he needs to get in line. And given the guy's motivation, commitment, and will to win...does anyone really think that given the experience that he will not be able to gain that mental advantage at some point?

Clearly many people do.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2011, 09:04 PM
Apparently, bubble screens serve an important purpose to keep the defense spread out and not crashing down from the edges. But they don't seem to help at any level.

I'd prefer to see some option tosses out on the edge to do that.

That play Cam and Deangelo ran on Sunday has got everybody talking (Gruden even mentioned it this morning). Wicked reverse pivot by Cam, counter action, toss to Deangelo.

With Knowshon, you could do some real damage with some tosses out there. Bill Walsh believed in the toss instead of the bubble screen to stretch out the D.

Anyone remember the double-reverse throw to Elway streaking down the left side?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4pXfHLUlZf4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 09:05 PM
Plummer's two big downfalls as far as I'm concerned: sub-par arm strength and a lack of football smarts. They really showed up sometimes. The guy was terrible at reading defenses, and really never could deliver the ball downfield with any velocity or accuracy. Tebow doesn't seem to have either of those problems.

I don't think it was football smarts with Jake, I think that it was a lack of focus and discipline. Shanny moved on from him because Jake wouldn't do his homework.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-12-2011, 09:05 PM
Plummer's two big downfalls as far as I'm concerned: sub-par arm strength and a lack of football smarts. They really showed up sometimes. The guy was terrible at reading defenses, and really never could deliver the ball downfield with any velocity or accuracy. Tebow doesn't seem to have either of those problems.

He didn't have the arm, but his instincts were terrific.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:08 PM
I don't think it was football smarts with Jake, I think that it was a lack of focus and discipline. Shanny moved on from him because Jake wouldn't do his homework.

That could've been it as well. The end result was the same on the field.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:09 PM
He didn't have the arm, but his instincts were terrific.

Yep. Unfortunately, many coverages are designed to fool instinctual QBs as we saw a fair number of times.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 09:09 PM
Clearly many people do.

I don't think that those people have really thought about it.

There seems to be this obstinant ignorance out there about Tebow.

Its really ironic that Newton has come into the league this season and has had success doing the things that people believe that were impossible in the NFL. He's basically Tebow. But still, people have this ignorance about Tebow...that he's not as capable athletically of making those plays that Cam makes, and that Cam is a better thrower of the ball. Cam has had a couple of crappy games...they just throw the ball tons of times. The Panthers are getting Cam ready by just getting him tons of experience.

I think that Cam vs. Tebow is the future star match-up of the league. Both are exciting gamers that can beat you in many ways.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 09:14 PM
That could've been it as well. The end result was the same on the field.

Jake had us in the playoffs several years. People complained about it because we had such high expectations (super bowl), but I'm sure that every Broncos fan here would take those results over what has happened since.

Jake got us to the AFC title game and won a conference title for us. He was a good player, and a historically significant Bronco. We just never really had a complete team for him. Manning used to absolutely destroy us because we didn't have a pass rush or a good secondary. Jake was good enough to get us there, but he wasn't good enough to compete with the Manning onslaught. But in retrospect, Manning is one of the greatest to play that position and he was in his prime. I won't fault Jake for being the Broncos' Stabler. Jake was alot of fun to watch too.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:15 PM
I don't think that those people have really thought about it.

There seems to be this obstinant ignorance out there about Tebow.

Its really ironic that Newton has come into the league this season and has had success doing the things that people believe that were impossible in the NFL. He's basically Tebow. But still, people have this ignorance about Tebow...that he's not as capable athletically of making those plays that Cam makes, and that Cam is a better thrower of the ball. Cam has had a couple of crappy games...they just throw the ball tons of times. The Panthers are getting Cam ready by just getting him tons of experience.

I think that Cam vs. Tebow is the future star match-up of the league. Both are exciting gamers that can beat you in many ways.

Tebow > Newton in virtually every way. Unfortunately there's a huge disparity between how each organization is approaching them. Carolina is all in with Cam Newton, while Denver had to have its arm twisted to the point of snapping before they would use Tebow. It's been infuriating to watch honestly.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:21 PM
Jake had us in the playoffs several years. People complained about it because we had such high expectations (super bowl), but I'm sure that every Broncos fan here would take those results over what has happened since.

Jake got us to the AFC title game and won a conference title for us. He was a good player, and a historically significant Bronco. We just never really had a complete team for him. Manning used to absolutely destroy us because we didn't have a pass rush or a good secondary. Jake was good enough to get us there, but he wasn't good enough to compete with the Manning onslaught. But in retrospect, Manning is one of the greatest to play that position and he was in his prime. I won't fault Jake for being the Broncos' Stabler. Jake was alot of fun to watch too.

Not my point. Plummer was good in a limited sort of way, and when he was outside of his comfort zone he played about as dumb as a QB can play. Our offense with Plummer was predicated on keeping him in that comfort zone, and I think Shanahan got sick of coming up with tricks to make that happen. He just never put it together as a pocket passer, and to me that looked almost entirely due to an inability to read defenses and deliver the ball to the open man when in the pocket. If that was due to his unwillingness to study and master the game, okay, but he just always seemed like a dumb QB to me (again in either case the end result was the same on the field).

maher_tyler
10-12-2011, 09:21 PM
Plummer's down fall was not being able to throw from the pocket consistently. If our run game wasn't working, we were ****ed because the roll outs weren't going to fool anyone. There is no reason Tebow can't be just as good/successful. We need to make improvements at a lot of positions though. Mostly on the D side of the ball.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 09:25 PM
Tebow > Newton in virtually every way. Unfortunately there's a huge disparity between how each organization is approaching them. Carolina is all in with Cam Newton, while Denver had to have its arm twisted to the point of snapping before they would use Tebow. It's been infuriating to watch honestly.

Its possible that Carolina's success with Cam has had an influence on the Broncos and Fox's decision about Tebow.

I imagine that the players see the similarities too, so it might damper skepticism a little.

Play2win
10-12-2011, 09:25 PM
If Tebow can play as good as Plummer, he will be elite. Because Tebow actually has the body, the quickness, and stamina to out-Plummer Plummer.

Plummer was an odd one -- great mobility and play-making ability, but it didn't really come from athletic superiority. It was just how he played the game.

He was about as quick as they come, tho.

Agamemnon
10-12-2011, 09:30 PM
Elway is arguably the GOAT at any position on the field.

You don't want to slap those comparisons on anyone (like we have done in Denver to every QB who has come through here...really unfairly to Jake, who in retrospect was really successful here).

But you can say that Tebow adds that same element that Elway brought...that transcendent kind of thing thats hard to quantify. Tebow has a knack for coming up with the big play.

Its going to happen one day where the Broncos win a close game when Tebow takes off running, lowers his pads and plows through a linebacker to score the game winner. When that happens, Broncos fans won't want another QB.

Those are the kinds of plays that Tebow makes...those 15-yard scrambling runs where he shows uncanny vision and feet and then he identifies the target between he and the goal line and just blows the guy backward.

Having a QB like that is something that nobody else has. The gladiator mentality is one that will make Broncos fans and teammates endeared to him over time.

I 100% agree. Now if only we could commit to him as our QB and start building the rest of the team...

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2011, 09:53 PM
I 100% agree. Now if only we could commit to him as our QB and start building the rest of the team...

I think that we'll have that in the offseason.

Tebow doesn't seem like the type to fail given a real opportunity. It seems to be a repeating pattern throughout his history as a player that he has generally taken advantage of opportunities.

People keep setting this really high bar for Tebow to secure the job. In reality, I don't think that its like that. I really think that its the opposite. There is no amount of games that Tebow "has to win" to secure the job.

On the contrary, I think that Tebow has to utterly fail to lose the job.

Tebow is the biggest star in the NFL. Yesterday when he was named the starter, it was covered as a major story all over the country. Every Tebow highlight will be shown on repeat all over the country.

The potential for Tebow to make the Broncos money hand over fist is off the charts. He makes everyone money. Clicks, papers, page views, commentary, ratings...imagine Tebow in a playoff game. Tebow in the superbowl. He's like the Elvis of football...he'll carry the sport to new levels if he has the success of even a guy like Roethlisberger. Forget LeBron James in the NBA...Tebow could be the biggest thing possibly in NFL history. He has that kind of natural draw.

So for the Broncos to part ways with an asset like that, it would take a pretty significant failure that ruins Tebow's marketing power.

Jay3
10-13-2011, 06:30 AM
I think that we'll have that in the offseason.

Tebow doesn't seem like the type to fail given a real opportunity. It seems to be a repeating pattern throughout his history as a player that he has generally taken advantage of opportunities.

That's why I just wanted him on the field. I was more worried about his window of opportunity closing than I was about him being "not ready" or "ruined."

People accuse Tebow fans of wanting Tebow playing more than we want wins, but actually we are well aware the scrutiny and "hatin'" will ramp up when he's actually losing or winning games.

But we still want it. We think he'll hold up to close inspection in actual games.

pricejj
10-13-2011, 09:56 AM
I think that we'll have that in the offseason.

Tebow doesn't seem like the type to fail given a real opportunity. It seems to be a repeating pattern throughout his history as a player that he has generally taken advantage of opportunities.

People keep setting this really high bar for Tebow to secure the job. In reality, I don't think that its like that. I really think that its the opposite. There is no amount of games that Tebow "has to win" to secure the job.

On the contrary, I think that Tebow has to utterly fail to lose the job.

Tebow is the biggest star in the NFL. Yesterday when he was named the starter, it was covered as a major story all over the country. Every Tebow highlight will be shown on repeat all over the country.

The potential for Tebow to make the Broncos money hand over fist is off the charts. He makes everyone money. Clicks, papers, page views, commentary, ratings...imagine Tebow in a playoff game. Tebow in the superbowl. He's like the Elvis of football...he'll carry the sport to new levels if he has the success of even a guy like Roethlisberger. Forget LeBron James in the NBA...Tebow could be the biggest thing possibly in NFL history. He has that kind of natural draw.

So for the Broncos to part ways with an asset like that, it would take a pretty significant failure that ruins Tebow's marketing power.


1. I am a huge Broncos/Tebow fan, but I am not hitching 2012 to a guy who has trouble hitting a 5 yard out to the right.
2. We all want Tebow to bring us to the Superbowl, but can he do it? I believe his window of opportunity is right now, these 11 games. He will either sink or swim. If he swims, get BPA in the draft. If he sinks, the FO needs to find out if there is a "franchise" QB available in the draft.
3. I know Tebow didn't have an offseason, and no reps during the season. It will be tough to win games with this team...but we will be able to tell by the end of the year, if Tebow can carry this team.
4. I have all the confidence in the world that Timmy is going to surprise us all. :sunshine:

More excited for the Broncos than I have been in a long time!!

AlphaSeirra
10-13-2011, 10:40 AM
I think it shows their own inability to adapt to Tebow's unique abilities... This is the whole reason they started Kyle over Tebow in the first place..

Mac, your logic is non-existent and you've been listening to the average media moron for to long.

At UF, in a S/O offense, Tim set the SEC Career Record with a 170.79 PER plus a 4.3 ypc running against the tough SEC defenses.

Then in last years Bronco 'system' Tebow had the #1 Rookie NFL PER at 82.1 WITH a 5.3 ypc running.

This year, with the new foxy offense, Tebow had a 108 PER with 5.3 ypc in the preseason.

And he just had a 101.7 PER with 6.3 ypc, going in cold in the 2nd half against SD.

Why do some continue to claim that Tim can't play unless they adapt some 'special' offense for him???

NOBODY can back their way into the future..... :thumbsup:

AlphaSeirra
10-13-2011, 11:11 AM
Oh I'm not saying he'll be as good as Elway. I'm just saying he's got a higher ceiling than a slightly above average QB with a penchant
for big plays and comebacks from time to time. Elway comparisons are way too much. Honestly I think they would be too much for Luck
if we drafted him at #1. Comparisons to a player like that has to be earned on the field, no matter who you are or how talented you are.

Don't worry about Tebow and Elway comparisons.

The chips will fall where they may in this, besides, Tebow won't have Elway's surrounding cast either.
Comparisons are not needed in this, they are each their own man and their own QB.

However, Tim had a similar problem when he arrived at UF.

In 1996, Danny Wuerffel had just won a mNC, UF 52 - 20 FSU.
Danny was #2 in NCAA history with 121 TD passes behind BYU's Ty Detmer, who didn't get his against SEC defenses.
Danny, as a Sr in 1996, won UF"s 2nd Heisman by a QB.
Danny also won the academic Heisman, then the Draddy Trophy, among his pages of records and awards.
Danny Wonderful was the king of the Wuerffel House, otherwise known as the SWAMP.

Tebow never threw for 121 TD's while at UF, (88 TD's to just 16 Ints).

However: Tim did win UF's 3rd Heisman, as the FIRST Soph in NCAA history to ever be awarded the Trophy.
Tim Set the SEC Career PER with a Career 170.79, with his supposedly weak and inaccurate arm.
Tim Broke RB Herschel Walkers (49) SEC Career Rushing TD record with 57 TD's.
Tim had 145 Total TD's plus 2 BCS-NC's, plus the Campbell Trophy, (new name for the Draddy)
Along with his pages of other records and awards.

What that says to me is that Tim finds it 'NO PROBLEM' to be playing behind a hometown legend.

Pressure rolls right off his broad shoulders.

And Tim will play just as hard and just as excited, whether his team is up by 20 pts, or down by 20 pts.
There is no more consistent player that I've ever seen in my many long years of football watching.
Tim may never equal the 'team' success that Elway had, depending on Tim's team, but no player in Bronco
history will work harder in an attempt to make it happen. :notworthy

Irish Stout
10-13-2011, 11:53 AM
Sorry! I hope Tebow doesn't win one game, that way we can draft a real franchise QB next year and get this franchise back on the right track!!

. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :,
. . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
. . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,}
. . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.}
. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ~,_. . . ..~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .=,_. . . .-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .=-._. . .;,,./`. . / . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
. . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-
. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
. . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__
,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-,
. .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--

Lolad
10-13-2011, 01:29 PM
If McCoy calls 1 draw play from Tebow next game I'll be pissed. He is very unimaginative, what he should be doing is watching tapes of Plummer when he was here, watch redskins, texans tape to show how to move the pocket and run various bootlegs, and playaction passes

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-13-2011, 01:53 PM
If McCoy calls 1 draw play from Tebow next game I'll be pissed. He is very unimaginative, what he should be doing is watching tapes of Plummer when he was here, watch redskins, texans tape to show how to move the pocket and run various bootlegs, and playaction passes

You know, he scored on the draw last game.

Agamemnon
10-13-2011, 04:03 PM
If McCoy calls 1 draw play from Tebow next game I'll be pissed. He is very unimaginative, what he should be doing is watching tapes of Plummer when he was here, watch redskins, texans tape to show how to move the pocket and run various bootlegs, and playaction passes

The draw with Tebow is good. But only against defenses geared primarily towards stopping the pass. When they call a draw for Tebow on 1st and 10 from his own 30 I start seeing red...