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View Full Version : Time for Moreno to be gone


FantomForce
10-10-2011, 01:31 PM
It is time. Moreno does not contribute anything really. Yes he had a touchdown I understand. But the blocking and design of play that could have been any RB on the roster. I love how Willis has come in and been not only a great patient runner but he explodes when he needs to. Knowshown is a bust because McCrappy took him in the first round, and he really just can't quite get rid of the injury bug. He needs to go.

Play2win
10-10-2011, 01:36 PM
Your timing is impeccable.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:36 PM
Yes because we have so many better options waiting in the wings right now. Get back to me when we draft a running back that actually proves to be better...

TheReverend
10-10-2011, 01:36 PM
For what gain?

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
10-10-2011, 01:37 PM
No it could not have been any RB on the roster... Moreno's burst of speed if really elite... he just has problem seeing lanes develop. He's a threat in the passing game and he is a great blocker... basically, as a 3rd down/spell RB he's perfect.

This thread was really unwarranted. He can easily be a huge part of the team.

TheChamp24
10-10-2011, 01:37 PM
I find it hilarious McGahee has 3 100 yard games this year and a 4.5 ypc, higher than Moreno ever had his whole career here.

Evenrude
10-10-2011, 01:37 PM
I disagree. I think Moreno fills the role of change of pace/third down back well. He just will never be the 25-30 touches a game workhorse that he was drafted to be.

Pony Boy
10-10-2011, 01:42 PM
He will really improve with Tebow blocking for him

DivineBronco
10-10-2011, 01:42 PM
For what gain?

this +1
what a crazy ass thing to post.....lets cut all non starting players during the bye BRING THE HAMMER

Requiem
10-10-2011, 01:44 PM
Why shouldn't Moreno play out the duration of his rookie contract?

As one of his biggest supporters, I would concede that he doesn't have the ability or durability to be a guy who can pound the rock 300+ times a year like we did with Davis. Not many backs do.

However, he can be a quality receiving option out of the backfield and can fill in during the running game when McGahee is gassed. He is never going to be an All-Pro running back, but he can produce for us and he has. Getting rid of Moreno puts the unnecessary burden of finding another back to go with an aging McGahee (and BTW, I love Willis and touted him being our guy to get way before he was landed) when we seriously need to invest our resources elsewhere.

Axing Moreno doesn't mean "addition by subtraction." It is a stupid thought.

I'd personally like to see more play calls thrown his way. 5-10 runs a game, with some screen and wheel patters out of the backfield and call it a day.

TheDave
10-10-2011, 01:44 PM
He has value as a 3rd down change of pace back who has great hands... Thats his role. Not quite #12 in the draft role, but it is what it is.

Gort
10-10-2011, 01:45 PM
in before somebody posts an "in before" post.

edog24
10-10-2011, 01:46 PM
I see his role as 3rd down back, maybe line him up in the slot, put him in on ST. Might as well use him since we have him, he is a bust for sure.

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
10-10-2011, 01:46 PM
I find it hilarious McGahee has 3 100 yard games this year and a 4.5 ypc, higher than Moreno ever had his whole career here.

To be honest, this isn't a fair comparison. Moreno was a rookie just 2 years ago and McGahee is a vet. McGahee is running behind much better blocking.

McGahee is running lights out right now... he's hasn't looked like this in a long time (looking through his career).

strafen
10-10-2011, 01:51 PM
I find it hilarious McGahee has 3 100 yard games this year and a 4.5 ypc, higher than Moreno ever had his whole career here.
Popps is not going to like this!
He hates facts.
He loves conspiracy theories and speculations better, in fact, if it was heard at a light rail station, he may sink his teeth into it and make an interesting argument about it...

mkporter
10-10-2011, 01:59 PM
Why exactly does it matter when he was drafted anymore? It's a sunk cost. We aren't getting the pick back if we cut him. If he can have a productive role on the team, it is stupid to get rid of him.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-10-2011, 02:00 PM
I think Moreno has a dynamite skill set as a receiver out of the backfield and a change of pace runner. Not to mention, his blocking has improved. Why, after yesterdays game especially, are you suddenly calling for him to go? This board is so friggin weird.

Popps
10-10-2011, 02:00 PM
[not sure if serious gif]

Popps
10-10-2011, 02:01 PM
I think Moreno has a dynamite skill set as a receiver out of the backfield and a change of pace runner. Not to mention, his blocking has improved. Why, after yesterdays game especially, are you suddenly calling for him to go? This board is so friggin weird.

But dude, McCrappy took him.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:07 PM
Why shouldn't Moreno play out the duration of his rookie contract?


Answer: $$

Will have to take a hard look at it in the offseason.

DrFate
10-10-2011, 02:08 PM
Always need a backup for Willis

Orange4Life
10-10-2011, 02:10 PM
Moreno has not been worthy of a #12 pick. But to say he is useless is ridiculous. As many others have said he can be a very solid/great 3rd down back. Its not his fault he was taken #12. It doesn't mean he can't be productive.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 02:10 PM
Answer: $$

Will have to take a hard look at it in the offseason.

Yeah. I'm sure the Broncos are going to have a tough time paying him his $855,000 base salary next year -- which is less than he is making this year. (And his total cap hit, including bonus is less than this year too.)

Try again.

bendog
10-10-2011, 02:11 PM
He will really improve with Tebow blocking for him

Yeah. Line up in "the gun," with two tightends (assuming two are active) and Knowshow takes a direct snap from Walton, and Tebow throws a lead block into a hole between the tight end and tackle.

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
10-10-2011, 02:13 PM
Did people already forget of how amazing Moreno played the flea flicker against the Packers?

Mogulseeker
10-10-2011, 02:16 PM
I think we should keep him as a COP back. Worth 11 overall? Certainly not, but he's still serviceable, young, and has upside. He's on his rookie contract. Cutting him would be a mistake.

Play2win
10-10-2011, 02:17 PM
Poorman's Reggie Bush. I would love this team to go full-on WCO with Tebow behind center. We have some good WCO weapons- Larsen, Moreno, Decker, Lloyd, etc...

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:18 PM
Poorman's Reggie Bush. I would love this team to go full-on WCO with Tebow behind center. We have some good WCO weapons- Larsen, Moreno, Decker, Lloyd, etc...

Reggie Bush is the poor man's Reggie Bush...

Requiem
10-10-2011, 02:19 PM
Reggie Bush was inside Kim Kardashian. Nothing poor about that. :O

Pick Six
10-10-2011, 02:22 PM
Tebow is going to make Knowshon better. They essentially have 2 running backs, out there...

Tombstone RJ
10-10-2011, 02:24 PM
I admit I'm disappointed with Moreno. I've been watching his feet and well, they suck. He's lucky he doesn't trip on almost every carry, his feet are so convoluted. I do think that he is going to get injured again very soon with the way he runs. His legs are always in a precarious situation when he is being tackled and it's only a matter of time before he breaks an ankle.

That being said, he's still effective in the passing game and I'm still holding out some hope he can be more productive. He does run hard.

Play2win
10-10-2011, 02:27 PM
Tebow is going to make Knowshon better. They essentially have 2 running backs, out there...

But one is good at throwing the ball, and one is good at catching the ball.

Seems like a good combination.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:36 PM
Reggie Bush was inside Kim Kardashian. Nothing poor about that. :O

As much as I loathe her as a human being, she is hot. I can't deny it...

McDman
10-10-2011, 02:37 PM
Moreno has the ability to be one of the better third down backs in the league. We absolutely should keep him.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:38 PM
Yeah. I'm sure the Broncos are going to have a tough time paying him his $855,000 base salary next year -- which is less than he is making this year. (And his total cap hit, including bonus is less than this year too.)

Try again.


Knowshon Moreno
Year.....Base..........Signing Bonus....Total
2012......$855,000.......$832,000............$1,68 7,000
2013.....$1,700,000.....$832,000............$2,532 ,000
2014.....$5,080,000.....$832,000............$5,912 ,000


He will probably make the cut next year...but he definitely isn't playing out his rookie contract.

Rolandftw
10-10-2011, 02:39 PM
Moreno is a good fit for a Tebow run offense. He's one of the more underrated receiving HB's in the game, and if utilized in that way will have a chance to make some really big plays in the passing game (with two back sets preferably).

He is not, nor was he ever a between the tackles type running back in the nfl. I have doubts of him even being the second best running HB on our team. yes, he should not have been drafted at #12 in the draft.. but since he was, Denver can still find value for him.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:40 PM
Knowshon Moreno
Year.....Base..........Signing Bonus....Total
2012......$855,000.......$832,000............$1,68 7,000
2013.....$1,700,000.....$832,000............$2,532 ,000
2014.....$5,080,000.....$832,000............$5,912 ,000


He will probably make the cut next year...but he definitely isn't playing out his rookie contract.

Yeah we'll never pay him that 2014 salary.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:42 PM
I like that Moreno has a "never say die" attitude. I always root for him, and his TD was freaking awesome :sunshine:

GO BRONCOS

DrFate
10-10-2011, 02:43 PM
Moreno has the ability to be one of the better third down backs in the league.

He's had 2+ years to show it...

We are still waiting...

houghtam
10-10-2011, 02:44 PM
It is time. Moreno does not contribute anything really. Yes he had a touchdown I understand. But the blocking and design of play that could have been any RB on the roster. I love how Willis has come in and been not only a great patient runner but he explodes when he needs to. Knowshown is a bust because McCrappy took him in the first round, and he really just can't quite get rid of the injury bug. He needs to go.

Okay, can we please stop with the childish McDaniels nicknames? He's gone. He ruined the team, but he's gone. Let's talk about how bad his drafts were, or spygate, or anything else, but seriously, this McPoopypants nicknaming stuff smacks of a 5 year old throwing a tantrum.

Bronco Yoda
10-10-2011, 02:45 PM
I've been among the harshest sometimes on this kid. But I really do think he has a role to play on this team. It's not as a feature every down back. I've always trumpeted this. But he can still do some thing if he's put into space. We saw a perfect example of this last game. Perhaps someday he'll slow down and pick lanes better... or not. Either way....

Fox has some good pieces if he'll just use them correctly. Moreno is one of those pieces. Along with Tebow & Royal etc.

titan
10-10-2011, 02:45 PM
Moreno has the ability to be one of the better third down backs in the league. We absolutely should keep him.

Agreed. I think he could be our Darren Sproles (I was sure glad the Chargers didn't have Sproles yesterday). Was Moreno worth the 12th pick in the draft? No - you don't use a pick that high for a 3rd down back. But he still has a lot of value if used correctly.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 02:46 PM
Knowshon Moreno
Year.....Base..........Signing Bonus....Total
2012......$855,000.......$832,000............$1,68 7,000
2013.....$1,700,000.....$832,000............$2,532 ,000
2014.....$5,080,000.....$832,000............$5,912 ,000


He will probably make the cut next year...but he definitely isn't playing out his rookie contract.

His 2014 salary is a team option for a sixth year. His regular contract is through 2013 for five years.

Popps
10-10-2011, 02:49 PM
A few people have accurately noted that Moreno's value is going to only go up with Tebow at QB. He'll be more involved in our offense.

Anyway, I'm fairly sure this thread was for the lulz, so I'm going to check out.

fontaine
10-10-2011, 03:17 PM
Kyle Orton has nearly as many rushing yards as Slow-shon.

Just saying. :)

bendog
10-10-2011, 03:18 PM
Kyle Orton has nearly as many rushing yards as Slow-shon.

Just saying. :)

That's because EFX don't properly utilize his unique skill set.

razorwire77
10-10-2011, 03:28 PM
He's never going to be an anvil back that gets you 27-155-2. His skill set will allow him to be a 10-12 touch receiving back on 3rd down. Not what you want out of a top 15 RB pick, but definitely better than nothing. This team will still need to address RB next year in the draft, because Willis isn't going to be a long term solution (as awesome as he's been as of late.)

fontaine
10-10-2011, 03:36 PM
That's because EFX don't properly utilize his unique skill set.

Who? Slowshon or Orton?

ROFL!

kappys
10-10-2011, 03:38 PM
A few people have accurately noted that Moreno's value is going to only go up with Tebow at QB. He'll be more involved in our offense.

Anyway, I'm fairly sure this thread was for the lulz, so I'm going to check out.

You mean the fact that Tebow can actually sell a screen pass makes Moreno more useful?

Or is it his ability to extend plays by scrambling - leading to openings in the flat for a crafty pass catching TE or RB?

Or are you referring to the fact that DE's will have to focus on containment rather than pinning their ears back and going full bore pass rush thus reducing the need for max protect and allowing for the RB's to regularly go our on routes?

Mr. Elway
10-10-2011, 03:46 PM
He has value as a 3rd down change of pace back who has great hands... Thats his role. Not quite #12 in the draft role, but it is what it is.

^this. Yesterday is a perfect example of his effectiveness as a role player. He can be productive in the screen game, and McCoy should find ways to get him the ball in space. That salary is too much though, perhaps the FO can restructure to keep him on the team now that it's clear no one's going to pay him a #1 RB salary.

DarkHorse
10-10-2011, 03:55 PM
Moreno has a burst? When did that show up? Who got it for him?

I agree he should be gone, but not from the roster - that's insane. Behind McGahee? Yeah without a doubt right now. Bottom line is that we need to take a look at a back somewhere in the draft next year.

McDman
10-10-2011, 04:02 PM
He's had 2+ years to show it...

We are still waiting...

I think he has shown it many times. He has always been an extremely effective screen guy and pass catcher out of the back field. He has also been proficient in blocking.

Hence, why I said he is a good third down back. He has shown it plenty of times.

UberBroncoMan
10-10-2011, 04:14 PM
He had some killer blocking yesterday.

gyldenlove
10-10-2011, 04:19 PM
He had some killer blocking yesterday.

His biggest strength has always been in the passing game.

DrFate
10-10-2011, 04:29 PM
Hence, why I said he is a good third down back.

No, that's not what you said. What you said was "the ability to be one of the better third down backs in the league"

He has decent hands. Period. He has no breakaway ability. You can't line him up wide and create a mismatch. He's a dumpoff guy. That's a dime-a-dozen player, not the #12 pick.

KevinJames
10-10-2011, 04:47 PM
I think Moreno has a dynamite skill set as a receiver out of the backfield and a change of pace runner. Not to mention, his blocking has improved. Why, after yesterdays game especially, are you suddenly calling for him to go? This board is so friggin weird.

Your spot on.

If used right Moreno is a great weapon for this offense. Why people fail to see that I have no idea.

1 on 1 with a defender he can make you miss.

montrose
10-10-2011, 06:36 PM
He actually trucked a guy on the TD run yesterday, that was awesome.

cabronco
10-10-2011, 06:40 PM
in before somebody posts an "in before" post.

Thats illegal.. :clown:

OrangeSe7en
10-10-2011, 06:57 PM
Why shouldn't Moreno play out the duration of his rookie contract?

As one of his biggest supporters, I would concede that he doesn't have the ability or durability to be a guy who can pound the rock 300+ times a year like we did with Davis. Not many backs do.

However, he can be a quality receiving option out of the backfield and can fill in during the running game when McGahee is gassed. He is never going to be an All-Pro running back, but he can produce for us and he has. Getting rid of Moreno puts the unnecessary burden of finding another back to go with an aging McGahee (and BTW, I love Willis and touted him being our guy to get way before he was landed) when we seriously need to invest our resources elsewhere.

Axing Moreno doesn't mean "addition by subtraction." It is a stupid thought.

I'd personally like to see more play calls thrown his way. 5-10 runs a game, with some screen and wheel patters out of the backfield and call it a day.

But Willis will be getting the workload that should have (in theory) belonged to Moreno this year. So, there will need to be someone taking on Willis' workload next year. And that RB isn't Moreno.

Mr. Elway
10-10-2011, 07:15 PM
He actually trucked a guy on the TD run yesterday, that was awesome.

Totally! (http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d822fd442/QB-Tebow-to-RB-Moreno-28-yd-pass-TD)

It's kind of funny because he had plenty of blockers but he just outran them and put his helmet onto the safety and knocked him on his ass. Funny/ironic because his lack of patience gets him into trouble at the LOS. That safety (#28 Gregory?) read the play and had the position to save the TD, but he just got pwnd.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 07:16 PM
But Willis will be getting the workload that should have (in theory) belonged to Moreno this year. So, there will need to be someone taking on Willis' workload next year. And that RB isn't Moreno.

McGahee isn't going to be one and done in Denver.

OrangeSe7en
10-10-2011, 07:22 PM
McGahee isn't going to be one and done in Denver.

You said we need to use resources on other positions but in saying this, you're suggesting that McGahee and Moreno can work again. At the rate things are going, McGahee is going to have a large workload. McGahee also turns 30 this year. Unless you're really thinking McGahee can carry the same workload next year, this idea that we don't need to find a new RB is not one that's realistic. Keeping Moreno isnt going to prevent us from needing a new RB since Moreno cant take on McGahees workload next year. And we're not even through this season yet.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 07:52 PM
You said we need to use resources on other positions but in saying this, you're suggesting that McGahee and Moreno can work again. At the rate things are going, McGahee is going to have a large workload. McGahee also turns 30 this year. Unless you're really thinking McGahee can carry the same workload next year, this idea that we don't need to find a new RB is not one that's realistic. Keeping Moreno isnt going to prevent us from needing a new RB since Moreno cant take on McGahees workload next year. And we're not even through this season yet.

Yes, I'm suggesting that for another year those two would work well. I do not see RB being a Top 3 need going into the draft and off-season.

OrangeSe7en
10-10-2011, 07:55 PM
Yes, I'm suggesting that for another year those two would work well. I do not see RB being a Top 3 need going into the draft and off-season.

You might be right. Time will tell. I'm not convinced McGahee can maintain this workload for the rest of the season, let alone next season. I think it's foolish to bank on McGahee-Moreno with McGahee being the bell cow for another year.

There's a lot up in the air right now. To know the needs, we kind of need to see how this Tebow thing plays out. I hope you're not suggesting a CB is worth a 1st. The rules kind of make taking a CB in the first pointless. You'd be better off taking another pass rusher.

maven
10-10-2011, 08:04 PM
I think Moreno has a dynamite skill set as a receiver out of the backfield and a change of pace runner. Not to mention, his blocking has improved. Why, after yesterdays game especially, are you suddenly calling for him to go? This board is so friggin weird.

Agree. Plus I think Moreno can be a good back for Tebow. Just stop getting your vag pulled and everything will be fine. Yes, you aren't worth the #12 overall pick, but I think Moreno can be all right.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 08:13 PM
You might be right. Time will tell. I'm not convinced McGahee can maintain this workload for the rest of the season, let alone next season. I think it's foolish to bank on McGahee-Moreno with McGahee being the bell cow for another year.

There's a lot up in the air right now. To know the needs, we kind of need to see how this Tebow thing plays out. I hope you're not suggesting a CB is worth a 1st. The rules kind of make taking a CB in the first pointless. You'd be better off taking another pass rusher.

I think Moreno will get more action in the running game as the season goes on.

This class of running backs is not good. Trent Richardson isn't that impressive and I don't think many of the other underclassmen are going to declare.

2013 is going to be nasty at the position and I'd much rather wait until then.

My sleeper RB for this year is Brandon Bolden, but he has had some foot trouble with the slight fracture.

McDman
10-10-2011, 08:39 PM
No, that's not what you said. What you said was "the ability to be one of the better third down backs in the league"

He has decent hands. Period. He has no breakaway ability. You can't line him up wide and create a mismatch. He's a dumpoff guy. That's a dime-a-dozen player, not the #12 pick.

You are splitting hairs. Me saying he is a good third down back and has the ability to be one of the better third down backs in the league is basically the same things.

He has good hands, it has always been one of his pluses. He looked fast enough for me yesterday. Plus, he can block very well.

And I will say this one more time. No, he was not worth the 12th pick in the draft but it was not his fault he was drafted that high. People are mad McD got him there and there is an automatic bias against him.

Vegas_Bronco
10-10-2011, 08:41 PM
Moreno will run harder now that he knows his azz is in trouble. McGahee will actually show him how to be a better back.

ps - this thread is wrong time, wrong place.

barryr
10-10-2011, 08:42 PM
Moreno does not appear to be an every down back, but he is value for sure and can help the team in the passing game. His situation reminds me of Faulk, the RB that played for the Pats for years. He was also a 1st round pick, but never really was an every down back either, but was great in the passing game and played for like 12 years in the NFL.

Taco John
10-10-2011, 08:50 PM
Did people already forget of how amazing Moreno played the flea flicker against the Packers?

I'm pretty sure Knowshon leads the league in flea flicker form this season.

broncocalijohn
10-10-2011, 09:25 PM
To be honest, this isn't a fair comparison. Moreno was a rookie just 2 years ago and McGahee is a vet. McGahee is running behind much better blocking.

McGahee is running lights out right now... he's hasn't looked like this in a long time (looking through his career).

running back is probably one of the easiest to transfer from college to pros. While I do not agree to dump him now, he is going to make us look at a RB in the draft most likely. Sucks because we used a high pick on him and expect him to be around for years to come.

FantomForce
10-30-2011, 06:43 PM
Still hoping for Moreno to be gone he does nothing for this Offense sorry I do not intend this to be a joke I am just sick of watching him dance with no music

Gort
10-30-2011, 06:44 PM
Still hoping for Moreno to be gone he does nothing for this Offense sorry I do not intend this to be a joke I am just sick of watching him dance with no music

we should trade him to "Dancing with the Stars" for one of the hot chick dancers.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 06:47 PM
running back is probably one of the easiest to transfer from college to pros. While I do not agree to dump him now, he is going to make us look at a RB in the draft most likely. Sucks because we used a high pick on him and expect him to be around for years to come.

Having drafted RB, WR, and QB in the 1st round in the last few years, it's pretty depressing to realize that any of those three positions could be our 1st round pick next draft.

Shananahan
10-30-2011, 06:56 PM
I'm finally on board with this thread and ready to abandon whatever hope I was holding to for the guy this season, though I'd add '....from the starting lineup' to the title.

DrFate
10-30-2011, 07:04 PM
He'll get cut in this coming offseason. Then we won't have to talk about him anymore.

TheChamp24
10-30-2011, 07:43 PM
I giggled everytime he'd take a handoff and dance at the LOS, and then prompty get tackled.
Moreno's chart:
Get handoff
Run to Line of Scrimmage
Wiggle left
Wiggle Right
Try to break free of tackle

El Guapo
10-30-2011, 07:43 PM
I was murmuring this mid-game as well. Hell, we need to flush half our players, but hopefully some of them improve. Franklin was giving me the dry heaves today.

Requiem
10-30-2011, 07:48 PM
Franklin needs to be kicked inside to guard and take over for Zane Beadles who can either compete at RT or against Franklin for a starting spot.

No sense in getting rid of Moreno until we add a replacement in the next two drafts.

gyldenlove
10-30-2011, 07:55 PM
I giggled everytime he'd take a handoff and dance at the LOS, and then prompty get tackled.
Moreno's chart:
Get handoff
Run to Line of Scrimmage
Wiggle left
Wiggle Right
Try to break free of tackle

He looks so much like Maroney when he has the ball, he runs to the line then stops dead in his tracks and tries to work out where to go.

Baba Booey
10-30-2011, 07:56 PM
Watching McCoy (picked 41 picks after Moreno in 09) tear **** up makes me really hate my life.

gyldenlove
10-30-2011, 07:56 PM
Franklin needs to be kicked inside to guard and take over for Zane Beadles who can either compete at RT or against Franklin for a starting spot.

No sense in getting rid of Moreno until we add a replacement in the next two drafts.

Franklin is fine as long as he is not the blindside tackle, you only shift him if we keep Tebow.

TheReverend
10-30-2011, 08:00 PM
Franklin is fine as long as he is not the blindside tackle, you only shift him if we keep Tebow.

Nothing about what he's doing is "fine"

JDB7821
10-30-2011, 08:06 PM
Having drafted RB, WR, and QB in the 1st round in the last few years, it's pretty depressing to realize that any of those three positions could be our 1st round pick next draft.

I didn't even think of it that way. That is pretty shocking.

I don't think you guys should lose hope in winning again soon though, the Falcons laid out a pretty golden blue print for any team needing to recover from a disaster:

1. Draft best, most pro ready (read: not Tebow) quarterback available in the draft. (Matt Ryan)
2. Find a reliable, workhorse running back to take pressure off of young quarterback. (Michael Turner)
3. Draft offensive lineman high to protect both (Sam Baker - didn't quite work out, but the logic is still sound)
4. Stabilize the middle of the defense (Curtis Lofton)

Then go from there. Although we didn't have to trade up for Matt Ryan like the Broncos might have to for Luck, I think you have to trade for him no matter what. It all started with Matt Ryan and the rest of the pieces have followed.

24champ
10-30-2011, 08:08 PM
Franklin is fine as long as he is not the blindside tackle, you only shift him if we keep Tebow.

Outside of Von Miller, this recent draft really sucks. My boy Raheem is not doing well, Franklin sucks...and so on.

We need to get rid of Xanders ASAP.

TheChamp24
10-30-2011, 08:09 PM
I didn't even think of it that way. That is pretty shocking.

I don't think you guys should lose hope in winning again soon though, the Falcons laid out a pretty golden blue print for any team needing to recover from a disaster:

1. Draft best, most pro ready (read: not Tebow) quarterback available in the draft. (Matt Ryan)
2. Find a reliable, workhorse running back to take pressure off of young quarterback. (Michael Turner)
3. Draft offensive lineman high to protect both (Sam Baker - didn't quite work out, but the logic is still sound)
4. Stabilize the middle of the defense (Curtis Lofton)

Then go from there. Although we didn't have to trade up for Matt Ryan like the Broncos might have to for Luck, I think you have to trade for him no matter what. It all started with Matt Ryan and the rest of the pieces have followed.

I remember Falcon fans were ready to throw Roddy White away, then he became a pretty solid WR. I sure hope Demarius Thomas becomes a decent WR. It sure made me cringe when he just stopped and watched the DB almost pick off a pass instead of fighting for it.

JDB7821
10-30-2011, 08:13 PM
I remember Falcon fans were ready to throw Roddy White away, then he became a pretty solid WR. I sure hope Demarius Thomas becomes a decent WR. It sure made me cringe when he just stopped and watched the DB almost pick off a pass instead of fighting for it.

I hated the guy, I was glad when there were talks of him being benched and possibly cut that one offseason...then he grew up. Roddy couldn't catch, was lazy in his routes, and didn't work very hard. Joe Horn showed him how to be a pro and Petrino (the only good thing he did) got through to him and told him he'd be out of the league if he didn't step it up. Bay Bay has better physical tools to work with than Roddy, he just has to grow up and learn how to be a pro as well. I definitely wouldn't give up on him.

ColoradoDarin
10-30-2011, 08:15 PM
Nothing about what he's doing is "fine"

I think it's nice the way he cools off DEs by flailing his arms at them when they go right by him. Does that pretty well.

razorwire77
10-30-2011, 08:20 PM
Franklin is a rookie and protecting the blind spot of a project QB that has been holding the ball way too long. That's not to excuse his piss poor pass protection the past couple of games, but it's not time to throw in the towel. Worst case, they draft another tackle and move him inside.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 08:26 PM
Franklin is a rookie and protecting the blind spot of a project QB that has been holding the ball way too long. That's not to excuse his piss poor pass protection the past couple of games, but it's not time to throw in the towel. Worst case, they draft another tackle and move him inside.

Franklin looks and plays like a guard. Not sure why they ever made him a tackle, but again I don't get most the things this team does.

And to be clear, him getting beaten like a drum on every other play has nothing to do with how long Tebow holds the ball. Just stop it with that ****.

cabronco
10-30-2011, 08:28 PM
I think it's nice the way he cools off DEs by flailing his arms at them when they go right by him. Does that pretty well.

Lol...All he needs is one of those spray misters on top of his helmet..the defenders will love it and take turns playing LDE.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 08:30 PM
I didn't even think of it that way. That is pretty shocking.

I don't think you guys should lose hope in winning again soon though, the Falcons laid out a pretty golden blue print for any team needing to recover from a disaster:

1. Draft best, most pro ready (read: not Tebow) quarterback available in the draft. (Matt Ryan)
2. Find a reliable, workhorse running back to take pressure off of young quarterback. (Michael Turner)
3. Draft offensive lineman high to protect both (Sam Baker - didn't quite work out, but the logic is still sound)
4. Stabilize the middle of the defense (Curtis Lofton)

Then go from there. Although we didn't have to trade up for Matt Ryan like the Broncos might have to for Luck, I think you have to trade for him no matter what. It all started with Matt Ryan and the rest of the pieces have followed.

The blueprint is pretty simple. Hit with your first and second round picks. If you don't you end up looking like the Broncos...

Inkana7
10-30-2011, 08:30 PM
Watching McCoy (picked 41 picks after Moreno in 09) tear **** up makes me really hate my life.

McCoy dances more than Moreno!

And as for Franklin, he's not George Foster, so I'm cool with him as a rookie.

razorwire77
10-30-2011, 08:32 PM
Franklin looks and plays like a guard. Not sure why they ever made him a tackle, but again I don't get most the things this team does.

And to be clear, him getting beaten like a drum on every other play has nothing to do with how long Tebow holds the ball. Just stop it with that ****.

You're right. A QB holding the ball in the National Football League until 18 Mississippi has no impact on the effectiveness of a rookie tackle to protect his blindside.

:thumbsup:

JDB7821
10-30-2011, 08:38 PM
The blueprint is pretty simple. Hit with your first and second round picks. If you don't you end up looking like the Broncos...

I've always been a die hard fan of the Falcons so this regime is the first time I've been able to see how you're supposed to build a winning team with sustainability. The thing I'm most impressed with and learned the most about, which I think Elway and Fox are looking to do, is to draft scheme specific players at a position of need. I know everyone says you should play to the strengths of your players and that's what they're doing right now with Tebow, but the Broncos are only going to start winning again when Fox can play football the way he wants to. It should be a serious red flag to people when you see they're tailoring the offense to a more collegiate style for Tebow. Come on, man. It didn't happen overnight for the Broncos like it did for the Falcons, but again, that's because you have to have the right quarterback. You guys got a piece I wish we had in Von Miller, but how many of you wouldn't trade Von Miller for Matt Ryan? I'm guessing no hands went up.

I've been a big supporter of Tebow because he plays over his head and gives effort and every team needs players like him to lead...but he won't win a Super Bowl as the starting quarterback and that's all that matters.

Popps
10-30-2011, 08:38 PM
McCoy dances more than Moreno!

And as for Franklin, he's not George Foster, so I'm cool with him as a rookie.

Yea, man... he's had ups and downs but protecting the blindside of a QB who is holding the ball all day isn't his forte'.

Franklin needs help from a TE if they're going to keep running this offense.

I also think he might be a better G than a tackle, but he's only a few games into his career. I like the pick, and I expect he'll improve.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 08:43 PM
You guys got a piece I wish we had in Von Miller, but how many of you wouldn't trade Von Miller for Matt Ryan? I'm guessing no hands went up.


I don't mean to be rude (and I'm sure you love the guy), but I really don't think that much of Matt Ryan. Rephrase that question with an actual elite QB and I'd be down, but I think I prefer Von Miller to Matt Ryan at the moment to be honest.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 08:46 PM
You're right. A QB holding the ball in the National Football League until 18 Mississippi has no impact on the effectiveness of a rookie tackle to protect his blindside.

:thumbsup:

Franklin getting completely dominated happens whether or not Tebow holds the ball too long. You get that right? The guy was completely exposed all day long. If Tebow gets rid of the ball sooner some of those plays aren't sacks, but that doesn't change that Franklin got owned. It's a pretty simple concept. Try to keep up...

TheReverend
10-30-2011, 08:46 PM
I've always been a die hard fan of the Falcons so this regime is the first time I've been able to see how you're supposed to build a winning team with sustainability. The thing I'm most impressed with and learned the most about, which I think Elway and Fox are looking to do, is to draft scheme specific players at a position of need. I know everyone says you should play to the strengths of your players and that's what they're doing right now with Tebow, but the Broncos are only going to start winning again when Fox can play football the way he wants to. It should be a serious red flag to people when you see they're tailoring the offense to a more collegiate style for Tebow. Come on, man. It didn't happen overnight for the Broncos like it did for the Falcons, but again, that's because you have to have the right quarterback. You guys got a piece I wish we had in Von Miller, but how many of you wouldn't trade Von Miller for Matt Ryan? I'm guessing no hands went up.

I've been a big supporter of Tebow because he plays over his head and gives effort and every team needs players like him to lead...but he won't win a Super Bowl as the starting quarterback and that's all that matters.

Yup... bleak as our situation is, I have no interest in Matt Ryan.

NONE.

Poor man's Matt Schaub with a higher price tag Ha!

Rolandftw
10-30-2011, 08:46 PM
Franklin looks and plays like a guard. Not sure why they ever made him a tackle, but again I don't get most the things this team does.

And to be clear, him getting beaten like a drum on every other play has nothing to do with how long Tebow holds the ball. Just stop it with that ****.

Don't really have too many other options at RT.

I don't understand why the Broncos thinks that Moreno is a between the tackles back.

Rolandftw
10-30-2011, 08:48 PM
You guys got a piece I wish we had in Von Miller, but how many of you wouldn't trade Von Miller for Matt Ryan? I'm guessing no hands went up.

I think Ryan's a good QB, but I wouldn't trade Miller for him. He's pretty much the only untouchable that I see on this team at the moment.

JDB7821
10-30-2011, 08:50 PM
I don't mean to be rude (and I'm sure you love the guy), but I really don't think that much of Matt Ryan. Rephrase that question with an actual elite QB and I'd be down, but I think I prefer Von Miller to Matt Ryan at the moment to be honest.

I know Ryan isn't the best and far from it (so far), but that actually was more to my point than picking an elite quarterback. He isn't the best, but he wins a LOT more than he loses and is far better than anything you guys have had recently. I'm sure you guys would take 11-5, 9-7, 13-3, and 4-3 over what you've had to endure recently. He isn't the kind of quarterback like Manning where he IS the team, but he's the kind of quarterback that can make accurate throws and win ball games. He also lets Dimitroff do what a lot of you want to do before getting a good quarterback...put weapons in place around him.

I've been really hard on him actually in recent times, but it's only because I'm getting tired of being really good and not really great. My point was that I'm sure a lot of you would take really good over really bad right now. I know I was sure happy to have really good after the Vick fiasco.

TheReverend
10-30-2011, 08:59 PM
I know Ryan isn't the best and far from it (so far), but that actually was more to my point than picking an elite quarterback. He isn't the best, but he wins a LOT more than he loses and is far better than anything you guys have had recently. I'm sure you guys would take 11-5, 9-7, 13-3, and 4-3 over what you've had to endure recently. He isn't the kind of quarterback like Manning where he IS the team, but he's the kind of quarterback that can make accurate throws and win ball games. He also lets Dimitroff do what a lot of you want to do before getting a good quarterback...put weapons in place around him.

I've been really hard on him actually in recent times, but it's only because I'm getting tired of being really good and not really great. My point was that I'm sure a lot of you would take really good over really bad right now. I know I was sure happy to have really good after the Vick fiasco.

Do you feel Dimitroff is VASTLY overrated?

JDB7821
10-30-2011, 09:00 PM
Yup... bleak as our situation is, I have no interest in Matt Ryan.

NONE.

Poor man's Matt Schaub with a higher price tag Ha!

I'm not turning this into a debate about Matt Ryan, but I hope my last post made my point a little more clear. My point is you need a better quarterback and the way the league is setup now, even a decent quarterback (Ryan) can look a lot better than he actually is. The Broncos need Luck, even if they have to trade up for him. He's the only one in the upcoming draft that CAN be a Rodgers/Brees type. If you try for Jones or Barkley, you might get stuck in a limbo like we are where we might have capped out with Ryan's ability. We win, but we don't win when it really matters.

On a side note, if we DID have Rodgers/Brees with our surrounding offense, I have absolutely no doubt we would have the number one offense in the NFL.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 09:02 PM
I know Ryan isn't the best and far from it (so far), but that actually was more to my point than picking an elite quarterback. He isn't the best, but he wins a LOT more than he loses and is far better than anything you guys have had recently. I'm sure you guys would take 11-5, 9-7, 13-3, and 4-3 over what you've had to endure recently. He isn't the kind of quarterback like Manning where he IS the team, but he's the kind of quarterback that can make accurate throws and win ball games. He also lets Dimitroff do what a lot of you want to do before getting a good quarterback...put weapons in place around him.

I've been really hard on him actually in recent times, but it's only because I'm getting tired of being really good and not really great. My point was that I'm sure a lot of you would take really good over really bad right now. I know I was sure happy to have really good after the Vick fiasco.

Atlanta has a lot more offensive talent than Denver. As far as I'm concerned, with this offensive lineup and coaching staff Matt Ryan probably isn't any better than Orton. A QB like Matt Ryan wouldn't even begin to fix this dog **** team. But they'd probably do a damn good job of making him look bad.

JDB7821
10-30-2011, 09:06 PM
Do you feel Dimitroff is VASTLY overrated?

If I concede that, then I have to say Mike Smith is VASTLY underrated. There's something really weird about our team that I haven't quite figured out yet. Dimitroff doesn't draft any stars outside of maybe Julio, but that's yet to be seen. We have an offense just like Fox wants to run that's stuck in the 70's. We have a vanilla Cover 2 defense without any true game changers, although I love Brent Grimes. Yet somehow through all of it, we win a lot of games. That's what has been annoying me so much lately. It seems like we play the most perfect game of absolute basic football in the league and it wins a lot of games. It hasn't (and probably won't) won us a Super Bowl though. So as much as I have appreciated the best stretch in Falcons history (sad, isn't it?), it's given me the same feeling I have for the Braves...I'm tired of seeing a lot of games won for pretty much nothing.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 09:07 PM
I'm not turning this into a debate about Matt Ryan, but I hope my last post made my point a little more clear. My point is you need a better quarterback and the way the league is setup now, even a decent quarterback (Ryan) can look a lot better than he actually is. The Broncos need Luck, even if they have to trade up for him. He's the only one in the upcoming draft that CAN be a Rodgers/Brees type. If you try for Jones or Barkley, you might get stuck in a limbo like we are where we might have capped out with Ryan's ability. We win, but we don't win when it really matters.

On a side note, if we DID have Rodgers/Brees with our surrounding offense, I have absolutely no doubt we would have the number one offense in the NFL.

That is a complete unknown at this point. Aaron Rodgers was drafted late in the 1st round. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Not all elite QBs are taken early in the 1st.

And trading up for Luck is very unlikely to be a)feasible with all our other needs and the picks it would take to make it happen or b)possible if the team with the #1 pick needs a franchise QB as well.

Agamemnon
10-30-2011, 09:10 PM
If I concede that, then I have to say Mike Smith is VASTLY underrated. There's something really weird about our team that I haven't quite figured out yet. Dimitroff doesn't draft any stars outside of maybe Julio, but that's yet to be seen. We have an offense just like Fox wants to run that's stuck in the 70's. We have a vanilla Cover 2 defense without any true game changers, although I love Brent Grimes. Yet somehow through all of it, we win a lot of games. That's what has been annoying me so much lately. It seems like we play the most perfect game of absolute basic football in the league and it wins a lot of games. It hasn't (and probably won't) won us a Super Bowl though. So as much as I have appreciated the best stretch in Falcons history (sad, isn't it?), it's given me the same feeling I have for the Braves...I'm tired of seeing a lot of games won for pretty much nothing.

The truth is that your team is an elite QB away from being a true contender. Matt Ryan is to you what Jake Plummer used to be to us. It's better than outright sucking as a team, but it's still unsatisfying.

TheReverend
10-30-2011, 09:10 PM
If I concede that, then I have to say Mike Smith is VASTLY underrated. There's something really weird about our team that I haven't quite figured out yet. Dimitroff doesn't draft any stars outside of maybe Julio, but that's yet to be seen. We have an offense just like Fox wants to run that's stuck in the 70's. We have a vanilla Cover 2 defense without any true game changers, although I love Brent Grimes. Yet somehow through all of it, we win a lot of games. That's what has been annoying me so much lately. It seems like we play the most perfect game of absolute basic football in the league and it wins a lot of games. It hasn't (and probably won't) won us a Super Bowl though. So as much as I have appreciated the best stretch in Falcons history (sad, isn't it?), it's given me the same feeling I have for the Braves...I'm tired of seeing a lot of games won for pretty much nothing.

I think Dimitroff is mega overrated and that Mike Smith is underrated, yes.

I mean... what out of this is even average, let alone commendable?

2011 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 6 Julio Jones WR Alabama
3 91 Akeem Dent LB Georgia
5 145 Jacquizz Rodgers RB Oregon State
6 192 Matt Bosher P Miami (Fla.)
7 210 Andrew Jackson G Fresno State
7 230 Cliff Matthews DE South Carolina
2010 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 19 Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri
3 83 Corey Peters DT Kentucky
3 98 Mike Johnson G Alabama
4 117 Joe Hawley C Nevada-Las Vegas
5 135 Dominique Franks DB Oklahoma
5 165 Kerry Meier WR Kansas
6 171 Shann Schillinger DB Montana
2009 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 24 Peria Jerry DT Mississippi
2 55 William Moore DB Missouri
3 90 Chris Owens DB San Jose State
4 125 Lawrence Sidbury DE Richmond
5 138 William Middleton DB Furman
5 156 Garrett Reynolds T North Carolina
6 176 Spencer Adkins LB Miami (Fla.)
7 210 Vance Walker DT Georgia Tech
2008 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College
1 21 Sam Baker T USC
2 37 Curtis Lofton MLB Oklahoma
3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Louisiana State
3 84 Harry Douglas WR Louisville
3 98 Thomas DeCoud FS California
5 138 Robert James MLB Arizona State
5 154 Kroy Biermann DE Montana
6 172 Thomas Brown RB Georgia
7 212 Wilrey Fontenot CB Arizona
7 232 Keith Zinger TE Louisiana State

JDB7821
10-30-2011, 09:15 PM
The truth is that your team is an elite QB away from being a true contender. Matt Ryan is to you what Jake Plummer used to be to us. It's better than outright sucking as a team, but it's still unsatisfying.

That's probably the best summary I can think of actually. Anyway, because I don't want to seem like I come here to only talk Falcons, what do you do about the Broncos? Let the cards fall where they do and hope the value is there on a quarterback besides Luck?

TheReverend
10-30-2011, 09:16 PM
That's probably the best summary I can think of actually. Anyway, because I don't want to seem like I come here to only talk Falcons, what do you do about the Broncos? Let the cards fall where they do and hope the value is there on a quarterback besides Luck?

No thanks, let's talk Falcons.

Talking Broncos is too depressing today.

JDB7821
10-30-2011, 09:21 PM
I think Dimitroff is mega overrated and that Mike Smith is underrated, yes.

I mean... what out of this is even average, let alone commendable?

2011 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 6 Julio Jones WR Alabama
3 91 Akeem Dent LB Georgia
5 145 Jacquizz Rodgers RB Oregon State
6 192 Matt Bosher P Miami (Fla.)
7 210 Andrew Jackson G Fresno State
7 230 Cliff Matthews DE South Carolina
2010 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 19 Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri
3 83 Corey Peters DT Kentucky
3 98 Mike Johnson G Alabama
4 117 Joe Hawley C Nevada-Las Vegas
5 135 Dominique Franks DB Oklahoma
5 165 Kerry Meier WR Kansas
6 171 Shann Schillinger DB Montana
2009 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 24 Peria Jerry DT Mississippi
2 55 William Moore DB Missouri
3 90 Chris Owens DB San Jose State
4 125 Lawrence Sidbury DE Richmond
5 138 William Middleton DB Furman
5 156 Garrett Reynolds T North Carolina
6 176 Spencer Adkins LB Miami (Fla.)
7 210 Vance Walker DT Georgia Tech
2008 - Atlanta Falcons
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College
1 21 Sam Baker T USC
2 37 Curtis Lofton MLB Oklahoma
3 68 Chevis Jackson CB Louisiana State
3 84 Harry Douglas WR Louisville
3 98 Thomas DeCoud FS California
5 138 Robert James MLB Arizona State
5 154 Kroy Biermann DE Montana
6 172 Thomas Brown RB Georgia
7 212 Wilrey Fontenot CB Arizona
7 232 Keith Zinger TE Louisiana State

The bolded are players that are starters and the underlined are players that contribute from backup or special teams positions. Like I said, he doesn't seem to have a knack for picking any stars, but he knows how to fill out the depth of a roster. I do think he should get credit for the turnaround, but we are definitely about to find out if he's capable of building more than a consistent team and instead creating an elite team. He won't have a first round pick next year to do it, so he's definitely going to earn his money if he does it.

DENVERDUI55
10-30-2011, 10:39 PM
He has value as a 3rd down change of pace back who has great hands... Thats his role. Not quite #12 in the draft role, but it is what it is.

I've always said he is Kevin Faulk. Faulk is a much better player though.

fontaine
10-31-2011, 04:32 AM
Moreno had one nice cutback run in the game which was his longest play in the game.

Outside of that, he was nothing special.

FantomForce
10-31-2011, 06:26 AM
He is not a first round guy. Hell I don't know if we tried to trade him he would have enough value to get anything in return

DENVERDUI55
10-31-2011, 06:56 AM
I can't believe that this guy was drafted in the first round. I also can't believe he looked explosive in Georgia and looks like an undrafted bum in Denver. This experiment needs to be euthanized.

barryr
10-31-2011, 07:08 AM
Moreno is really only useful in the passing game, but they don't appear to use him much there either, so he is another guy that doesn't fit this oh so complicated offense they are running.

MplsBronco
10-31-2011, 09:43 AM
I've been one to give Moreno some slack but yesterday solidified for me that the guy flat out sucks, in all facets. I've been very frustrated with him this year on screen plays where he isn't patient enough to follow his lineman that are out in front of him in space. He never set up his blockers. Is he that impatient? Does he not know how to run woth the ball? Even on his TD against the Chargers, it was a nice play, but he had a lineman in front of him that he could have followed in to the end zone but instead decided to take the defender head on.

And then he always has to juke air or some other BS and ends up stubbing his toe and stumbling forward.

As for yesterday, I can't stand to see anymore of a RB take a hand off and essentially stop all forward motion before the line of scrimmage in order to shuffle his feet and dance around. He is down right god awful. Tebow played terrible and it's been a long time since I have been that disappointed (because I truly thought Tebow could succeed) but he had absolutely no help out there. It seemed like he was by himself. Out run game is sh!t.

Traveler
10-31-2011, 10:30 AM
And then he always has to juke air or some other BS and ends up stubbing his toe and stumbling forward.

Gerald Willhite 2.0

LRtagger
10-31-2011, 10:37 AM
To be fair, they did have 8 and 9 in the box and he still managed 4.9ypc. I do agree that I wish he would hit the hole and take whats there instead of stopping at the LOS and trying to turn every handoff into a big run.

I think he can contribute as a 3rd down back...I wanted Tebow to work out so we could draft Richardson, but now it looks like we will be doing whatever we can to get a 1st round QB.

FantomForce
11-07-2011, 09:30 AM
I'm going to beat this until he is gone! HE BRINGS NOTHING TO THE TEAM! He had his touches, get rid of this bum.

TheReverend
11-07-2011, 09:34 AM
I'm going to beat this until he is gone! HE BRINGS NOTHING TO THE TEAM! He had his touches, get rid of this bum.

At this point I like Lance Ball better than Moreno is every situation aside from the screen game. That being said, cut him for what though? Just to make a statement or is there someone available you want to bring in?

broncocalijohn
11-07-2011, 09:37 AM
Gerald Willhite 2.0

without the endzone dance.

cutthemdown
11-07-2011, 09:55 AM
When we have 3 rbs better then Moreno then he's gone. Until then he's still the 2nd or at worst 3rd best back on the team. Still I think Broncos have to look to draft Rb's. Sort of one of those positions you always need fresh legs at.

edog24
11-07-2011, 09:59 AM
Maybe start using him in the slot for quick slants? Does he have enough speed for that? That is about the only use I see for him at this point.

LRtagger
11-07-2011, 10:19 AM
When they go 5 wide he seems to be in the slot every time.

Those stupid ass shovel screens dont work, though. Throw that crap out of the playbook.

The guy is a good runner, he just has piss poor vision. McFadden had the same problem his first couple seasons, too.

Bronco Yoda
11-07-2011, 10:41 AM
Yes, a slot receiver in a 4-5 man spread is what I see KM able to do. He could always be audibled for protection duties as well. He does have experience in blocking/chipping. We need to learn how to start making lemonade out of lemons. We are so thin everywhere.

Popps
11-07-2011, 11:09 AM
Yes, a slot receiver in a 4-5 man spread is what I see KM able to do. He could always be audibled for protection duties as well. He does have experience in blocking/chipping. We need to learn how to start making lemonade out of lemons. We are so thin everywhere.

Trust me, Fox and Co. don't care where he was drafted at this point. They'll milk him for what they can get out of him. It's clear he doesn't have the durability to be an every down back at this point. So, throw him passes... let him protect the QB, line him up as a receiver, make use of him as a multi-faceted back-up. I like the idea of him being able to come in and act as a spark-plug.

People didn't like the shovel passes, but I think the Raiders just had them read well. That's a nice call imo, at least the first time. That's the way to play to your players' abilities. Remember the screen against SD a couple weeks back? Same thing... get Knowshon in some space with fresh legs and let him contribute.

McGahee is the unquestioned every-down pounder for us. But, that doesn't mean we should fire the rest of the players, or hate them simply because he's playing well. Moreno didn't draft himself.... and Fox doesn't care where he was drafted. He's going to try to find ways to use him that help the team.

Rohirrim
11-07-2011, 11:13 AM
Trust me, Fox and Co. don't care where he was drafted at this point. They'll milk him for what they can get out of him. It's clear he doesn't have the durability to be an every down back at this point. So, throw him passes... let him protect the QB, line him up as a receiver, make use of him as a multi-faceted back-up. I like the idea of him being able to come in and act as a spark-plug.

People didn't like the shovel passes, but I think the Raiders just had them read well. That's a nice call imo, at least the first time. That's the way to play to your players' abilities. Remember the screen against SD a couple weeks back? Same thing... get Knowshon in some space with fresh legs and let him contribute.

McGahee is the unquestioned every-down pounder for us. But, that doesn't mean we should fire the rest of the players, or hate them simply because he's playing well. Moreno didn't draft himself.... and Fox doesn't care where he was drafted. He's going to try to find ways to use him that help the team.

Watch it. You can be punished for logic 'round these here parts, pardner.

broncosteven
11-07-2011, 12:24 PM
Not sure what his cap number is like next year but I would shop him around the league before the draft.

Tired of seeing him go down hard at the LOS, go down at 1st contact, and last but far from least: run backwards rather than through guys.

I hope the RB coach is up his ass telling him not to dance or run backward with the ball, power up field like a real back would!

MVPlaya II - Electric Boogaloo
11-07-2011, 12:28 PM
No reason for Moreno to be gon when he can be a good weapon on 3rd downs. Moreno is ideally the prototypical 3rd down back. He can block well and catch well out the back field and make plays in the open field.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 12:45 PM
No reason for Moreno to be gon when he can be a good weapon on 3rd downs. Moreno is ideally the prototypical 3rd down back. He can block well and catch well out the back field and make plays in the open field.

This

FantomForce
11-07-2011, 12:49 PM
At this point I like Lance Ball better than Moreno is every situation aside from the screen game. That being said, cut him for what though? Just to make a statement or is there someone available you want to bring in?

Rev, I've always had respect for your words on this board. This for me is more of a rant than anything else I have no real insight of who to bring in but I cannot stand it when we give him the ball, he brings nothing special to the table, screen game, blocking there is no "it" factor with this player. We might as well snap the ball spike it and call it a carry for Moreno because that is essentially all we'll get out of it. This is what I'm doing:deadhorse because I just can't stand to watch us lose a down

DrFate
11-07-2011, 12:51 PM
This

Somebody send me a PM when they see Moreno "block well and catch well out the back field and make plays in the open field."

The guy has decent hands. That's where his resume ends.

Requiem
11-07-2011, 12:52 PM
Moreno is a good receiver and blocker.

Popps
11-07-2011, 12:53 PM
Somebody send me a PM when they see Moreno "block well and catch well out the back field and make plays in the open field."

The guy has decent hands. That's where his resume ends.

Honestly, if you haven't seen him picking up blitzers... you're not watching the games. He does it routinely, and well. Even his harshest critics recognize it.

FantomForce
11-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Somebody send me a PM when they see Moreno "block well and catch well out the back field and make plays in the open field."

The guy has decent hands. That's where his resume ends.

+100

Seriously, the guy doesn't pancake block anyone, when he does catch it he doesn't explode to the endzone. He does not excel above and beyond what any other player could do. Lance Ball could study film and learn how to block, come on!

DrFate
11-07-2011, 12:58 PM
I'll never understand the Moreno apologists who continue to label him things like 'an ideal 3rd down back'. Darren Sproles is an ideal 3rd down back. Moreno isn't Sproles. Moreno isn't even Reggie Bush.

If someone wants to make the case that he's an out-of-this-world blitz picker-upper, more power to them. Moreno has zero burst, zero ability to break a tackle, zero ability to make guys miss. He's good at falling down.


and he was drafted way too early :)

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 01:06 PM
+100

Seriously, the guy doesn't pancake block anyone, when he does catch it he doesn't explode to the endzone. He does not excel above and beyond what any other player could do. Lance Ball could study film and learn how to block, come on!

If you're measuring a RBs ability to block based on the number of pancake blocks he has, you've got issues.

Dedhed
11-07-2011, 01:09 PM
I was as high on Moreno as anyone, but I'm ready to throw in the towel. He's brutally impatient, displays poor vision, and can't stay out of his own way. He's painful to watch.

That said, I don't think there's reason to cut him at this point.

TheReverend
11-07-2011, 01:14 PM
Rev, I've always had respect for your words on this board. This for me is more of a rant than anything else I have no real insight of who to bring in but I cannot stand it when we give him the ball, he brings nothing special to the table, screen game, blocking there is no "it" factor with this player. We might as well snap the ball spike it and call it a carry for Moreno because that is essentially all we'll get out of it. This is what I'm doing:deadhorse because I just can't stand to watch us lose a down

That's fair and I feel your frustration. Better to hold him and ride out his rookie contract to see if he finally breaks out than cut him with no compensation and without even a comparable player in line to fill his role (or lack thereof).

TheReverend
11-07-2011, 01:16 PM
Honestly, if you haven't seen him picking up blitzers... you're not watching the games. He does it routinely, and well. Even his harshest critics recognize it.

Another 5 star popps post




























http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/KnowBlock.png

That's Moreno getting decleted into Tebow mid throw on the miss deep to Decker a few weeks ago and then people like Popps blamed the pass on Tebow's inaccuracy

Popps
11-07-2011, 01:19 PM
I was as high on Moreno as anyone, but I'm ready to throw in the towel. He's brutally impatient, displays poor vision, and can't stay out of his own way. He's painful to watch.

That said, I don't think there's reason to cut him at this point.

He definitely won't be cut. Again... knows the system, blocks well, catches well, runs for 4 yards a carry and has 2500 combined yards in 2.5 seasons as a Bronco. He's also young and under contract for two more seasons, I believe.

He's going to be a back-up, utility-back for us. There would be no logical need for the staff to "cut" him. To the contrary... he fills a need that they can simply forget about and go onto more important issues.

What you're seeing with Moreno is simply backlash from where he was drafted. People would just as soon chop their nose to spite their faces with him. "Well, he was drafted high and isn't a Pro Bowler so we probably should cut him."

Makes no sense, and luckily coaches and evaluators don't think that way.

DrFate
11-07-2011, 01:20 PM
Cut today? No

Cut in the off-season? There is little doubt...

FantomForce
11-07-2011, 01:23 PM
If you're measuring a RBs ability to block based on the number of pancake blocks he has, you've got issues.

I understand that my point is that he is not THE ideal blocker, there is no absolute on why this guy cannot be cut

WolfpackGuy
11-07-2011, 01:31 PM
Who?

Tombstone RJ
11-07-2011, 01:32 PM
I was as high on Moreno as anyone, but I'm ready to throw in the towel. He's brutally impatient, displays poor vision, and can't stay out of his own way. He's painful to watch.

That said, I don't think there's reason to cut him at this point.

Yep. There's absolutely no reason for him to suck this bad. The running game works fine with McGahee and then collapses with Moreno. Why? One reason I've noticed is his lousy footwork. I've never seen a guy move his feet so much and accomplish absolutely nothing. He's a tap dancing fool who goes nowhere.

Popps
11-07-2011, 01:33 PM
I understand that my point is that he is not THE ideal blocker, there is no absolute on why this guy cannot be cut

Yea, but you're basing your reason for cutting him on personal dislikes. People treat Knowshon like a girlfriend who broke up with them that they can't be friends with. He didn't turn out to be Terrel Davis. Bummer. Doesn't mean the staff is going to cut a decent utility back because of mad guys on message boards.

As for his blocking, he's always been known as a guy who could block. From what I've seen this year, he's done it mostly well. It's been chronicled by the talented writers over at IAOFM a few times this year.


...He is a very effective blocker
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114939

Moreno is a willing blocker with a good eye for picking up the blitz...
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114939


He came out of school well-known as a good blocker. I'm not sure where you're going with this "pancake" thing. A RB rarely pancakes a blitzing linebacker. Not exactly the best metric.


I love McGahee and he's our every-down basher, no question. But, the same people telling us to "cut" Moreno around here remind me of the forum "experts" who told us Hillis had no behind the scenes issues.

The coaches have it right with him. Use him as a utility back and get value out of him while he's under contract.

Now, the wildcard is his contract. It was 5 years, 16M. Seems pretty cheap. But, I don't know what the last two years look like. If they're up in the $4M range... then yea, you could be looking at having to re-work his deal or cutting him at that price.

Garcia Bronco
11-07-2011, 01:39 PM
Moreno is a good blocker. He was at Georgia and he's been okay in the NFL

broncosteven
11-07-2011, 01:40 PM
He definitely won't be cut. Again... knows the system, blocks well, catches well, runs for 4 yards a carry and has 2500 combined yards in 2.5 seasons as a Bronco. He's also young and under contract for two more seasons, I believe.

He's going to be a back-up, utility-back for us. There would be no logical need for the staff to "cut" him. To the contrary... he fills a need that they can simply forget about and go onto more important issues.

What you're seeing with Moreno is simply backlash from where he was drafted. People would just as soon chop their nose to spite their faces with him. "Well, he was drafted high and isn't a Pro Bowler so we probably should cut him."

Makes no sense, and luckily coaches and evaluators don't think that way.

Lance Ball has 4.7 YPC for his career and 5.2 this year. Ball's play has forced KM to the 3rd string.

KM is getting $1mill this year, next year it dipps down to $855k then in 2013 it jumps back up to $1.7 mill and 2014 we can pay $5mill for a club option.

Kinda high to pay a 3rd down back who isn't producing, especially since he got $13 mill guaranteed money. But then we are paying Orton 9 Mill to be a 3rd string QB...

When I mean not producing I mean 228 total yards and 1 TD through 8 games this year.

If they do keep him in 2012 I am guessing he is gone by 2013 unless he starts playing worthy enough to earn the Millions left on his contract.

I just hope in the mean time he plays better and contributes to some more wins this season.

Go Broncos.

Tombstone RJ
11-07-2011, 01:43 PM
Lance Ball has 4.7 YPC for his career and 5.2 this year. Ball's play has forced KM to the 3rd string.

KM is getting $1mill this year, next year it dipps down to $855k then in 2013 it jumps back up to $1.7 mill and 2014 we can pay $5mill for a club option.

Kinda high to pay a 3rd down back who isn't producing, especially since he got $13 mill guaranteed money. But then we are paying Orton 9 Mill to be a 3rd string QB...

When I mean not producing I mean 228 total yards and 1 TD through 8 games this year.

If they do keep him in 2012 I am guessing he is gone by 2013 unless he starts playing worthy enough to earn the Millions left on his contract.

I just hope in the mean time he plays better and contributes to some more wins this season.

Go Broncos.

It's a sad reality that if McGahee goes down the running game sucks. That's all on Moreno. Let's just hope McGahee stays healthy.

Popps
11-07-2011, 01:51 PM
KM is getting $1mill this year, next year it dipps down to $855k then in 2013 it jumps back up to $1.7 mill and 2014 we can pay $5mill for a club option.

Kinda high to pay a 3rd down back

855K is "kinda high?"

Good god, what's the league minimum for vets?

If he's making 855K next season, you can rest assured he will be back.
2013 is too far away to even be bothered with at this point. (Especially considering the Cybil-like nature of this board.)

At that price, he'll be back. 2500 combined yards, effective blocking and a decent back up at 855K is pretty much a no-brainer.

But, I don't want to step on any dreams. Maybe he'll get cut and some of you guys will feel better about life. Personally, I don't get the stink about it at this stage. We've got a great #1 RB option. He'll file a role. End of story.

TheReverend
11-07-2011, 01:53 PM
It's a sad reality that if McGahee goes down the running game sucks. That's all on Moreno. Let's just hope McGahee stays healthy.

Without McGahee - 195 yards rushing at 6.5 ypc

Popps
11-07-2011, 01:57 PM
It's a sad reality that if McGahee goes down the running game sucks. That's all on Moreno. Let's just hope McGahee stays healthy.

Seriously. What a great pick-up. Not that the staff will be given any credit for it, of course... those bozos.

I'm just hoping we can get at least one more year out of him like this one. But he is at that "magical" age of 30. Seems like drafting a similar back for future 1st down duty might be in order.

broncosteven
11-07-2011, 02:00 PM
855K is "kinda high?"

Good god, what's the league minimum for vets?

If he's making 855K next season, you can rest assured he will be back.
2013 is too far away to even be bothered with at this point. (Especially considering the Cybil-like nature of this board.)

At that price, he'll be back. 2500 combined yards, effective blocking and a decent back up at 855K is pretty much a no-brainer.

But, I don't want to step on any dreams. Maybe he'll get cut and some of you guys will feel better about life. Personally, I don't get the stink about it at this stage. We've got a great #1 RB option. He'll file a role. End of story.

Way to take a post out of context to suit your agenda.

Read the whole sentence, if not the whole post, not just what you wanted to hear.

Tombstone RJ
11-07-2011, 02:02 PM
Without McGahee - 195 yards rushing at 6.5 ypc

Yah but a lot of that is Tebow and IMHO I'd rather he didn't run so much.

TheReverend
11-07-2011, 02:19 PM
Yah but a lot of that is Tebow and IMHO I'd rather he didn't run so much.

Even a bigger chunk of this past week was Tebow.

Tombstone RJ
11-07-2011, 02:21 PM
Even a bigger chunk of this past week was Tebow.

yep, but I'm not sure the Broncos win without McGahee.

TheReverend
11-07-2011, 02:31 PM
yep, but I'm not sure the Broncos win without McGahee.

That's fair. Because I AM sure we wouldn't win with Orton. Willis had the speed to break that big one and that was one of the most valuable plays of the day by far.

fontaine
11-07-2011, 03:15 PM
What you're seeing with Moreno is simply backlash from where he was drafted. People would just as soon chop their nose to spite their faces with him. "Well, he was drafted high and isn't a Pro Bowler so we probably should cut him."

Makes no sense, and luckily coaches and evaluators don't think that way.

Wrong.

What you're seeing with Moreno is a guy who's already been replaced by McGahee and now is on par with Ball in snaps.

People don't talk about Moreno not getting it done because he was drafted high, it's because he doesn't have vision, little cutback ability, routinely gets tripped up and easily tackled and hardly ever fights and falls forward for a first down.

If it was the Raiders/Chiefs/or Bolts that drafted him Bronco fans would be laughing at his piss poor play but since he's a Bronco all kinds of excuses are made for the guy.

I hope he pans out and somehow starts playing up to his potential but there's nothing wrong with calling it straight and Moreno is an average backup at best.

The next game Moreno has where he doesn't run into his blockers, makes the first tackler miss and gains yards after contact will be his first.

That sucks no matter where he was drafted.

txtebow
11-07-2011, 03:24 PM
It is time. Moreno does not contribute anything really. Yes he had a touchdown I understand. But the blocking and design of play that could have been any RB on the roster. I love how Willis has come in and been not only a great patient runner but he explodes when he needs to. Knowshown is a bust because McCrappy took him in the first round, and he really just can't quite get rid of the injury bug. He needs to go.

cosign. and note, I was COMPLETELY wrong about knowshon. I sincerely thought that he was going to be the next Ladanian Tomlinson (no ****) and remember hearing after the draft that the chuggers had targeted him. They can have him

FantomForce
11-07-2011, 03:26 PM
Yea, but you're basing your reason for cutting him on personal dislikes. People treat Knowshon like a girlfriend who broke up with them that they can't be friends with. He didn't turn out to be Terrel Davis. Bummer. Doesn't mean the staff is going to cut a decent utility back because of mad guys on message boards.

As for his blocking, he's always been known as a guy who could block. From what I've seen this year, he's done it mostly well. It's been chronicled by the talented writers over at IAOFM a few times this year.


...He is a very effective blocker
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114939

Moreno is a willing blocker with a good eye for picking up the blitz...
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114939


He came out of school well-known as a good blocker. I'm not sure where you're going with this "pancake" thing. A RB rarely pancakes a blitzing linebacker. Not exactly the best metric.


I love McGahee and he's our every-down basher, no question. But, the same people telling us to "cut" Moreno around here remind me of the forum "experts" who told us Hillis had no behind the scenes issues.

The coaches have it right with him. Use him as a utility back and get value out of him while he's under contract.

Now, the wildcard is his contract. It was 5 years, 16M. Seems pretty cheap. But, I don't know what the last two years look like. If they're up in the $4M range... then yea, you could be looking at having to re-work his deal or cutting him at that price.

This pancake thing is getting blown out of porpotion. What I meant was as he might block "well" he isn't the best blocking running back of all time, his overall value is not because he is such a great blocker. Your quotes can be made about any player, just like almost all horoscopes fit everyone no matter if your gemeni or leo. My point is this he holds no special reason not to be cut