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Garcia Bronco
10-10-2011, 10:12 AM
One of our big problem offensively is that our WR can't get open. It's like they run to the DB's as long lost friends. I don't see this as a QB issue.

Either they need to scheme something better or get better talent, but these guys couldn't lose a set of care keys. Of course when they do get open the QB Kyle Orton couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. I don't see this getting better with Tebow anytime soon.

snowspot66
10-10-2011, 10:17 AM
I think a part of it is that they have never really had to do a scramble drill in a game. The ball is either coming to one of them or Orton gets sacked. They'll need to get used to plays lasting longer than five seconds.

Steve Prefontaine
10-10-2011, 10:18 AM
One of our big problem offensively is that our WR can't get open. It's like they run to the DB's as long lost friends. I don't see this as a QB issue.

Either they need to scheme something better or get better talent, but these guys couldn't lose a set of care keys. Of course when they do get open the QB Kyle Orton couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. I don't see this getting better with Tebow anytime soon.

I agree the WRs need to do a better job of getting separation. The upside of Tebow is 1) he can extend plays and 2) he can get rushing yards. Both will help loosen up the defense a bit.

So, do you think Tebow should start in Miami? Or still go with Orton? I know you probably cringed when Tebow came into the game, expecting him to cry or start wandering around trying to find the huddle.

Rother8
10-10-2011, 10:19 AM
Can't wait to see Demaryius and Eddie back in there.

We'll have the best corps in the AFCW, imo.

Garcia Bronco
10-10-2011, 10:31 AM
I agree the WRs need to do a better job of getting separation. The upside of Tebow is 1) he can extend plays and 2) he can get rushing yards. Both will help loosen up the defense a bit.

So, do you think Tebow should start in Miami? Or still go with Orton? I know you probably cringed when Tebow came into the game, expecting him to cry or start wandering around trying to find the huddle.

I think Tebow starts from her on out. He's got to get his throwing motion shorter. The best in the game get the ball out in .27 to .30 seconds. Tebow takes almost a full second.

None of that is going to get the guys open though.

As much as I think Orton is a jinx, I can hardly balem him for holding on to the ball. Those WR's can't get open.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 10:35 AM
Easy to see why Lloyd and Decker weren't getting separation~

40 times:
Brandon Lloyd..........4.6 s
Eric Decker..............4.5 s
Demaryius Thomas...4.4 s
Eddie Royal.............4.39 s

Hope Thomas can come back to be that vertical threat we so desperately need.

edog24
10-10-2011, 10:36 AM
Well, our WR's aren't very good, and they are all undersized in today's league. Demaryius is the only big one and he has only shown glimpses of talent. Tebow is not the most accurate passer and it doesn't help that he is throwing to WR's that are undersized and easily covered. We will have to use some innovation to get them open downfield, some play action bootlegs come to mind now that we aren't saddled by pocket sloth anymore.

vonqkilla
10-10-2011, 10:39 AM
Well, our WR's aren't very good, and they are all undersized in today's league. Demaryius is the only big one and he has only shown glimpses of talent. Tebow is not the most accurate passer and it doesn't help that he is throwing to WR's that are undersized and easily covered. We will have to use some innovation to get them open downfield, some play action bootlegs come to mind now that we aren't saddled by pocket sloth anymore.

More post corners, jerk routes, corner comebacks, etc.. That would help.

Steve Prefontaine
10-10-2011, 10:40 AM
Well, our WR's aren't very good, and they are all undersized in today's league. Demaryius is the only big one and he has only shown glimpses of talent. Tebow is not the most accurate passer and it doesn't help that he is throwing to WR's that are undersized and easily covered. We will have to use some innovation to get them open downfield, some play action bootlegs come to mind now that we aren't saddled by pocket sloth anymore.

Decker is listed at 6'3", 218 lbs.

BroncoBen
10-10-2011, 10:52 AM
One of our big problem offensively is that our WR can't get open. It's like they run to the DB's as long lost friends. I don't see this as a QB issue.

Either they need to scheme something better or get better talent, but these guys couldn't lose a set of care keys. Of course when they do get open the QB Kyle Orton couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. I don't see this getting better with Tebow anytime soon.

I love it... 'long lost friends'... I think you are right, better talent. Brandon Lloyd is having to live up to his reputation of making the hard catches. Eddie Royal can't get on the field, same goes for TE Julius Thomas, Demaryius Thomas can't stay healthy.

gtown
10-10-2011, 11:00 AM
I don't blame the receivers here. I think this is all part of the maturation process for Tebow. He is hesitating to throw the ball simply because he is waiting for the receiver to be wide-open (as opposed to partially open). Hopefully EFX let him play the rest of the year so he can focus on throwing at receivers that are partially covered, or even better, learning to throw routes open. He does not have the accuracy for tight windows, yet. But that should easily be his prime focus moving forward.

Also, the routes we run all seem the same. It's almost as if we are not utilizing the whole tree. I can't imagine an NFL offense that doesn't have all the routes in it, but the ones we feature seem to be of the comeback route variety. Maybe this matched Orton's and our WR corps strengths, but I see Tim with more of a downfield arm.

ant1999e
10-10-2011, 11:17 AM
I agree the WRs need to do a better job of getting separation. The upside of Tebow is 1) he can extend plays and 2) he can get rushing yards. Both will help loosen up the defense a bit.

So, do you think Tebow should start in Miami? Or still go with Orton? I know you probably cringed when Tebow came into the game, expecting him to cry or start wandering around trying to find the huddle.

I agree.with tebow.being able to loosen up the defense. With orton they knew he wasn't going to run but with.tebow there is always a.chance.

gyldenlove
10-10-2011, 11:31 AM
One of our big problem offensively is that our WR can't get open. It's like they run to the DB's as long lost friends. I don't see this as a QB issue.

Either they need to scheme something better or get better talent, but these guys couldn't lose a set of care keys. Of course when they do get open the QB Kyle Orton couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. I don't see this getting better with Tebow anytime soon.

It is about timing, no WR is going to be open on any non-deep route for more than a second. If your QB does not throw the ball so it gets there during that open window your WR is going to be covered. Orton didn't have the arm and anticipation to throw those passes consistently and Tebow doesn't have the experience to do so.

Wes Mantooth
10-10-2011, 11:43 AM
Easy to see why Lloyd and Decker weren't getting separation~

40 times:
Brandon Lloyd..........4.6 s
Eric Decker..............4.5 s
Demaryius Thomas...4.4 s
Eddie Royal.............4.39 s

Hope Thomas can come back to be that vertical threat we so desperately need.


The play calling is bad. New England TE and WR are not any faster than ours, yet they find a way to make it work.

HILife
10-10-2011, 12:07 PM
Easy to see why Lloyd and Decker weren't getting separation~

40 times:
Brandon Lloyd..........4.6 s
Eric Decker..............4.5 s
Demaryius Thomas...4.4 s
Eddie Royal.............4.39 s

Hope Thomas can come back to be that vertical threat we so desperately need.

4.6s? Didn't know that. He looks faster then that and he is also the deep threat.

Northman
10-10-2011, 12:14 PM
I dont blame the receivers honestly.

For one thing the line is young and still struggles at times. The other is we have a starting QB who is average and does not have a quick release like some of the premier QB's in the NFL. If we had Manning, Brady, or Rodgers right now we would not be 1-4. So having a elite QB means a lot in the NFL. Now, we have a young QB with only 4 starts who has some mechanics to work on as far as his own play is concerned. But if anyone is truly expecting Tebow to light it up passing wise isnt being realistic. He is going to go through some growing pains until he gets enough reps with the first stringers, etc. But i dont think our receivers suck at all. Guys like Manning, Brees, and Brady have made a living making average receivers look like HOF'rs.

TailgateNut
10-10-2011, 12:19 PM
One of our big problem offensively is that our WR can't get open. It's like they run to the DB's as long lost friends. I don't see this as a QB issue.

Either they need to scheme something better or get better talent, but these guys couldn't lose a set of care keys. Of course when they do get open the QB Kyle Orton couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. I don't see this getting better with Tebow anytime soon.....and TimBow thinks they are able to catch balls with their feet.

TheReverend
10-10-2011, 12:21 PM
....and TimBow thinks they are able to catch balls with their feet.

Let's get this out in the open.

Are you retarded?

boltaneer
10-10-2011, 12:21 PM
What happened to Eddie Royal?

He basically fell off the planet after his rookie season.

snowspot66
10-10-2011, 12:26 PM
What happened to Eddie Royal?

He basically fell off the planet after his rookie season.

Poor utilization of his abilities and a few injuries. He actually had a decent year last year but nothing earth shattering.

Pony Boy
10-10-2011, 12:29 PM
It's amazing what a pump fake when the QB is a real threat to run will do to get a receiver open.

TheReverend
10-10-2011, 12:29 PM
What happened to Eddie Royal?

He basically fell off the planet after his rookie season.

QB play

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:56 PM
One of our big problem offensively is that our WR can't get open. It's like they run to the DB's as long lost friends. I don't see this as a QB issue.

Either they need to scheme something better or get better talent, but these guys couldn't lose a set of care keys. Of course when they do get open the QB Kyle Orton couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. I don't see this getting better with Tebow anytime soon.

Our receivers get open fine. But you need a QB that can find the open man. Orton couldn't do that, and while Tebow actually did find them he struggled getting the ball where it needed to be, at least early on. Tebow is a young guy that hasn't gotten any reps with the 1st string though. He'll improve.

BroncoBen
10-10-2011, 12:56 PM
What happened to Eddie Royal?

He basically fell off the planet after his rookie season.

I remember like it was yesterday back in the 2008 draft, the Broncos had a choice to make.. They were looking for a Kick Returner... either draft Eddie Royal from Virginia Tech or DeShawn Jackson out of California.

There was talk that DeShawn had 'Character or Attitude' issues, so the Broncos took the safer pick .. the rest is history.

SonOfLe-loLang
10-10-2011, 12:58 PM
Are we really now calling Brandon Lloyd bad? He might not be the fastest guy or the biggest guy, but he's proven to be a reliable deep threat and, as far as jump balls go, he's one of the best at going up and grabbing em.

Garcia Bronco
10-10-2011, 12:58 PM
I don't blame the receivers here. I think this is all part of the maturation process for Tebow. He is hesitating to throw the ball simply because he is waiting for the receiver to be wide-open (as opposed to partially open). Hopefully EFX let him play the rest of the year so he can focus on throwing at receivers that are partially covered, or even better, learning to throw routes open. He does not have the accuracy for tight windows, yet. But that should easily be his prime focus moving forward.

Also, the routes we run all seem the same. It's almost as if we are not utilizing the whole tree. I can't imagine an NFL offense that doesn't have all the routes in it, but the ones we feature seem to be of the comeback route variety. Maybe this matched Orton's and our WR corps strengths, but I see Tim with more of a downfield arm.

It's not Tebow.....or Orton IMO.

Garcia Bronco
10-10-2011, 01:00 PM
What happened to Eddie Royal?

He basically fell off the planet after his rookie season.

He can't get open in this league. That's his problem. His other prblem is we haven't had a QB that takes chances. And on top of that...he can't catch. He's had numerous balls hit him in the hands the last two season that he drops.

Garcia Bronco
10-10-2011, 01:01 PM
I remember like it was yesterday back in the 2008 draft, the Broncos had a choice to make.. They were looking for a Kick Returner... either draft Eddie Royal from Virginia Tech or DeShawn Jackson out of California.

There was talk that DeShawn had 'Character or Attitude' issues, so the Broncos took the safer pick .. the rest is history.

I don't think anyone is calling him bad, but more making the point that he can't be the only one.

boltaneer
10-10-2011, 01:07 PM
I remember like it was yesterday back in the 2008 draft, the Broncos had a choice to make.. They were looking for a Kick Returner... either draft Eddie Royal from Virginia Tech or DeShawn Jackson out of California.

There was talk that DeShawn had 'Character or Attitude' issues, so the Broncos took the safer pick .. the rest is history.

I didn't understand a word you said. Nice avatar. ;)

Gort
10-10-2011, 01:16 PM
I love it... 'long lost friends'... I think you are right, better talent. Brandon Lloyd is having to live up to his reputation of making the hard catches. Eddie Royal can't get on the field, same goes for TE Julius Thomas, Demaryius Thomas can't stay healthy.

if that avatar isn't rep-worthy, then no avatar is rep-worthy!

+1

Northman
10-10-2011, 01:16 PM
It has more to do with the QB position. Is it any surprise that when Cutler was here he was able to find Royal? Not really. Since then we have had Orton who has been average and have what is basically a rookie QB who needs work on his passing technique. Royal's biggest issue as of late is catching and injuries but he is a good receiver. He just needs a QB who can get him and the rest of them the ball on a regular basis and with the correct timing.

Inkana7
10-10-2011, 01:17 PM
What happened to Eddie Royal?

He basically fell off the planet after his rookie season.

He's not that good.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:19 PM
It has more to do with the QB position. Is it any surprise that when Cutler was here he was able to find Royal? Not really. Since then we have had Orton who has been average and have what is basically a rookie QB who needs work on his passing technique. Royal's biggest issue as of late is catching and injuries but he is a good receiver. He just needs a QB who can get him and the rest of them the ball on a regular basis and with the correct timing.

Newsflash: Cutler is mediocre as well.

Royal's success had a lot more to do with how Shanahan schemed with him than Cutler.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:21 PM
He's not that good.

This is the truth that so many Broncos fans refuse to accept. His rookie season was an anomaly. It's pretty obvious at this point.

Simple Jake
10-10-2011, 01:22 PM
4.6s? Didn't know that. He looks faster then that and he is also the deep threat.

40 times aren't as importanat as they are made out to be.. all player are faster during a game than they are on their 40

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:22 PM
40 times aren't as importanat as they are made out to be.. all player are faster during a game than they are on their 40

Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 or 4.7 as I recall, so yeah...

Northman
10-10-2011, 01:25 PM
Newsflash: Cutler is mediocre as well.

Hard to say, he has probably the worst Oline in all of football. But he also hasnt taken that step to be an upper eschalon gunslinger either. But he still is better than anything we have on the squad currently.

Royal's success had a lot more to do with how Shanahan schemed with him than Cutler.

Sure, Shanny's scheme played a hand in it but you still have to have a QB who can get the ball to him.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:29 PM
Hard to say, he has probably the worst Oline in all of football. But he also hasnt taken that step to be an upper eschalon gunslinger either. But he still is better than anything we have on the squad currently.


Sure, Cutler is better than a young, developing Tebow who has only played in 3 and 1/2 games, but Tebow's intangibles and overall potential blows away what Cutler is right now (and what Cutler is right now is a mediocre QB with a strong arm).

pricejj
10-10-2011, 01:31 PM
What makes Brandon Lloyd special is his athletic ability (ambidexterity, leaping ability, great hands)...that said, he isn't the kind of guy who gets separation down the field.

Everytime Orton threw him the ball deep, he relied on Lloyd to stop, elevate, and make the adjustment midair to catch the ball. Orton relied on Lloyd heavily since his Chicago days to catch the underthrown ball...Lloyd has made it an artform.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:31 PM
Sure, Shanny's scheme played a hand in it but you still have to have a QB who can get the ball to him.

Brandon Lloyd led the league in receiving yards last year. The year before that Brandon Marshall had over a 100 catches. All with Kyle Freaking Orton. The problem hasn't been that the QB couldn't get him the ball. The problem has been that he isn't very good, and can't get open reliably.

gyldenlove
10-10-2011, 01:31 PM
40 times aren't as importanat as they are made out to be.. all player are faster during a game than they are on their 40

Quite the opposite in fact, every single player is slower when in full gear than he is in track shoes.

Northman
10-10-2011, 01:35 PM
Sure, Cutler is better than a young, developing Tebow who has only played in 3 and 1/2 games, but Tebow's intangibles and overall potential blows away what Cutler is right now (and what Cutler is right now is a mediocre QB with a strong arm).

Dont know about that. While Tebow does possess a great ability to run his accuracy in the passing game is questionable at best. The biggest problem for Jay has always been whats between his ears. But there's no denying that Jay has the talent to be a very good QB in the league. While Tebow has the possibility of becoming a great QB its not a given and he's going to need more work than your average QB. Hopefully Fox gives him time this year to work it out. If he's not the answer we go and draft one in the upcoming draft. If Tebow wants to succeed he will need to be a pass first/run second QB not vice versa.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 01:35 PM
Sure, Cutler is better than a young, developing Tebow who has only played in 3 and 1/2 games, but Tebow's intangibles and overall potential blows away what Cutler is right now (and what Cutler is right now is a mediocre QB with a strong arm).

Cutler can be VERY accurate down the field in small windows...which is one of the reasons Eddie Royal had so much success. The other reason, of course, is Mike Shanahan's offense.

Orton was NOT an accurate passer, and rarely threw into tight coverage.

We will see about Tebow...

GO BRONCOS

Northman
10-10-2011, 01:35 PM
Brandon Lloyd led the league in receiving yards last year. The year before that Brandon Marshall had over a 100 catches. All with Kyle Freaking Orton. The problem hasn't been that the QB couldn't get him the ball. The problem has been that he isn't very good, and can't get open reliably.

Ha!

You mean, inflated stats because we were playing catchup 85% of the time? Really? LOL

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:42 PM
Ha!

You mean, inflated stats because we were playing catchup 85% of the time? Really? LOL

Why didn't Royal benefit from the same inflated stats then? Your critical thinking skills are kind of weak it seems...

Here I'll help. Eddie Royal isn't very good. Stop making excuses for him.

Memento
10-10-2011, 01:43 PM
What happened to Eddie Royal?

He basically fell off the planet after his rookie season.

I bought his 1960 throw-back jersey... that's what happened to him.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:45 PM
Cutler can be VERY accurate down the field in small windows...which is one of the reasons Eddie Royal had so much success. The other reason, of course, is Mike Shanahan's offense.

Orton was NOT an accurate passer, and rarely threw into tight coverage.

We will see about Tebow...

GO BRONCOS

Cutler can be accurate in small windows. Except when he's not. Then he's an interception machine. And I certainly don't recall Royal's production his rookie year coming off of tons of passes into tight spaces. Seemed like it was mostly coming off of mismatches and him being wide open because Shanahan schemed perfectly to take advantage of his speed and acceleration.

maher_tyler
10-10-2011, 01:56 PM
It has more to do with the QB position. Is it any surprise that when Cutler was here he was able to find Royal? Not really. Since then we have had Orton who has been average and have what is basically a rookie QB who needs work on his passing technique. Royal's biggest issue as of late is catching and injuries but he is a good receiver. He just needs a QB who can get him and the rest of them the ball on a regular basis and with the correct timing.

Imagine him on the Pats...he'd put up 80+ catches in that offense!

pricejj
10-10-2011, 01:58 PM
Cutler can be accurate in small windows. Except when he's not. Then he's an interception machine. And I certainly don't recall Royal's production his rookie year coming off of tons of passes into tight spaces. Seemed like it was mostly coming off of mismatches and him being wide open because Shanahan schemed perfectly to take advantage of his speed and acceleration.

Orton would hardly ever look at (let alone throw the ball to) someone not #84.

...too scared of the pick 6.

Inkana7
10-10-2011, 02:00 PM
Orton would hardly ever look at (let alone throw the ball to) someone not #84.

...too scared of the pick 6.

This has been refuted time and again.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:02 PM
This has been refuted time and again.

Your boy Orton will never start in the league again...let it go.

maher_tyler
10-10-2011, 02:08 PM
Cutler can be accurate in small windows. Except when he's not. Then he's an interception machine. And I certainly don't recall Royal's production his rookie year coming off of tons of passes into tight spaces. Seemed like it was mostly coming off of mismatches and him being wide open because Shanahan schemed perfectly to take advantage of his speed and acceleration.

Seems to me since Shanny left, he's been under utilized. How many times did Orton lock onto his first read?? Which was usually always Lloyd. Imo, he could easily put up the same numbers of his rookie year if given the chance and with a QB that looks to more than just Lloyd.

Northman
10-10-2011, 02:13 PM
Why didn't Royal benefit from the same inflated stats then? Your critical thinking skills are kind of weak it seems...



Because its obvious Orton locks onto targets. He did it with both Brandons. Try actually being objective and you might just be taken seriously.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:13 PM
Seems to me since Shanny left, he's been under utilized. How many times did Orton lock onto his first read?? Which was usually always Lloyd. Imo, he could easily put up the same numbers of his rookie year if given the chance and with a QB that looks to more than just Lloyd.

Except that Gaffney of all people was more productive than him two years in a row. You're logic just doesn't hold up. Royal just isn't that good. The evidence is pretty overwhelming at this point.

Northman
10-10-2011, 02:14 PM
Orton would hardly ever look at (let alone throw the ball to) someone not #84.

...too scared of the pick 6.

Shhhh, your being unreasonable man. Ha!

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:16 PM
Because its obvious Orton locks onto targets. He did it with both Brandons. Try actually being objective and you might just be taken seriously.

And again, Jabar Geffney also outproduced him for two straight years. Was Orton locking onto Gaffney as well? Was it just some conspiracy to screw Royal? Come on now.

I've never seen people hold on to a player as something great for so long with nothing to back it up. It's bizarre.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 02:17 PM
Easy to see why Lloyd and Decker weren't getting separation~

40 times:
Brandon Lloyd..........4.6 s
Eric Decker..............4.5 s
Demaryius Thomas...4.4 s
Eddie Royal.............4.39 s

Hope Thomas can come back to be that vertical threat we so desperately need.

40 yard dash times are not the type of numbers you would use to discuss separation at the line. Sorry.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:21 PM
Because its obvious Orton locks onto targets. He did it with both Brandons. Try actually being objective and you might just be taken seriously.

I hate Orton as much as anyone, and I do agree that he often locks onto his primary receiver. But let's not be stupid. Orton threw for roughly 7000 yards over the last two seasons. If Royal was a genuinely good receiver he would've gotten a bigger slice of that pie than a mere 1000 yards. But he isn't that good, so he didn't.

Really this isn't complicated. Good receivers produce. Not so good receivers struggle to start and don't produce. Eddie Royal belongs to which group again?

Northman
10-10-2011, 02:23 PM
And again, Jabar Geffney also outproduced him for two straight years.


You mean when McD decided to move Royal to the slot and on KR duties? Of course Jabar would get more targets than Royal at that point.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:30 PM
40 yard dash times are not the type of numbers you would use to discuss separation at the line. Sorry.

I am talking about separation down the field...of which there was none.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:33 PM
You mean when McD decided to move Royal to the slot and on KR duties? Of course Jabar would get more targets than Royal at that point.

You do realize that the slot receiver in McDaniels offense is pretty much as important as any other receiver right? You do know that's primarily what Wes Welker played under McD, and that he produced insane numbers right? Honestly, how many more lame excuses do you have for this guy's lack of production?

Requiem
10-10-2011, 02:35 PM
I am talking about separation down the field...of which there was none.

You never mentioned down the field. You spoke of 40 times and indicated that as being a reason why Decker and Lloyd aren't getting separation. There are better drills and even qualities of the player that are better used to suggest why one isn't getting separation.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:38 PM
And again, Jabar Geffney also outproduced him for two straight years. Was Orton locking onto Gaffney as well? Was it just some conspiracy to screw Royal? Come on now.

I've never seen people hold on to a player as something great for so long with nothing to back it up. It's bizarre.

Eddie Royal is a good slot receiver with a ability to be a game changer if utilized correctly...what else do you want?

Jabar Gaffney is pretty good too, and should be for being a former 1st round draft pick, who played in the NE system for 3 years before becoming a Bronco.

What is the issue?

Bronco Yoda
10-10-2011, 02:40 PM
I don't put very much stock in these 40 times. I'd rather have a slow WR that runs good routes than a fast guy who's clueless. Our timing has been off all season so far for whatever reason.

We need to spread them out more. Seen too many times where there's multiple WR's ending up in the same area. Are routes being ran wrong?

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:42 PM
Eddie Royal is a good slot receiver with a ability to be a game changer if utilized correctly...what else do you want?

Jabar Gaffney is pretty good too, and should be for being a former 1st round draft pick, who played in the NE system for 3 years before becoming a Bronco.

What is the issue?

The issue is that Broncos fans continue to think Royal is this incredible receiver who simply isn't being used correctly, when the much more likely explanation is he's not that good. Gaffney is a mediocre starting receiver in this league. All evidence seems to indicate that Royal isn't as good as Gaffney. That would seem to show that Royal just isn't that good. But the delusions of grandeur continue because of one anomalous season...

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:45 PM
You never mentioned down the field. You spoke of 40 times and indicated that as being a reason why Decker and Lloyd aren't getting separation. There are better drills and even qualities of the player that are better used to suggest why one isn't getting separation.

Do you think that Lloyd's and Decker's obvious lack of speed could possibly contribute to the reason that they are not getting open down the field...rather than within 5 yards of the LOS?

Granted Jerry Rice was a superb route runner, who was extremely fluid, and had the best hands ever...but not everyone is Jerry Rice.

And if speed is not an issue, why did Jerry Rice not wear pads? Why did he cut pieces out of his shoes to be lighter and thus....run faster?

Requiem
10-10-2011, 02:51 PM
Do you think that Lloyd's and Decker's obvious lack of speed could possibly contribute to the reason that they are not getting open down the field...rather than within 5 yards of the LOS?

Yes. Are those the main reasons? No.

Northman
10-10-2011, 02:52 PM
You do realize that the slot receiver in McDaniels offense is pretty much as important as any other receiver right? You do know that's primarily what Wes Welker played under McD, and that he produced insane numbers right? Honestly, how many more lame excuses do you have for this guy's lack of production?

You do realize we dont have Tom Brady right? Hilarious!

Northman
10-10-2011, 02:53 PM
The issue is that Broncos fans continue to think Royal is this incredible receiver who simply isn't being used correctly, when the much more likely explanation is he's not that good. Gaffney is a mediocre starting receiver in this league. All evidence seems to indicate that Royal isn't as good as Gaffney. That would seem to show that Royal just isn't that good. But the delusions of grandeur continue because of one anomalous season...

Thats not correct. I never said he was an incredible receiver. I just said he wasnt garbage.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 02:56 PM
This is probably Eddie's last year as a Bronco. Not on the field and hasn't produced (outside the San Diego returns) for the Broncos in a long time. Do not see him being re-signed when there are better veteran options at receiver this coming off-season and viable prospects in the draft.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:56 PM
The issue is that Broncos fans continue to think Royal is this incredible receiver who simply isn't being used correctly, when the much more likely explanation is he's not that good. Gaffney is a mediocre starting receiver in this league. All evidence seems to indicate that Royal isn't as good as Gaffney. That would seem to show that Royal just isn't that good. But the delusions of grandeur continue because of one anomalous season...

1. I think it's fair to say that Eddie Royal was underutilized his 2nd year.
2. He had a significant hip injury last year, which didn't help.
3. He has been injured so far this year.
4. Royal did have 59 catches last year, which is good for only starting 10 games.
5. Although Royal may not have the size or ability to be a #1, I think he is good in the slot, can't think of anyone else I would rather have. Solid freaking player if he could get healthy.
6. Good talent find in the 2nd round.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:56 PM
You do realize we dont have Tom Brady right? Hilarious!

You are hopeless. No we don't have Brady. That doesn't matter. If a slot receiver can't have success in a McD offense with a QB producing above average yardage totals, he's probably not that good. And if you move Royal to the outside you end up facing the reality that he is undersized for such a role. Again this does not help the case for his supposed greatness. But whatever. You probably believe in fairies and unicorns as well...

pricejj
10-10-2011, 02:58 PM
WTF is up with all the Eddie hate? Get off his nuts. I hope when he gets back on the field he goes off.

Eddie is on our team...if you don't like the Broncos GTFO.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 03:00 PM
This is probably Eddie's last year as a Bronco. Not on the field and hasn't produced (outside the San Diego returns) for the Broncos in a long time. Do not see him being re-signed when there are better veteran options at receiver this coming off-season and viable prospects in the draft.

I will take you on that bet.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 03:01 PM
You are hopeless. No we don't have Brady. That doesn't matter. If a slot receiver can't have success in a McD offense with a QB producing above average yardage totals, he's probably not that good. And if you move Royal to the outside you end up facing the reality that he is undersized for such a role. Again this does not help the case for his supposed greatness. But whatever. You probably believe in fairies and unicorns as well...

"Success" and "McD offense" should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

Royal is a "Shanahan guy"...we all know what happened to all the Shanahan guys when McD was here. They all got embarrassed and shipped out.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 03:02 PM
WTF is up with all the Eddie hate? Get off his nuts. I hope when he gets back on the field he goes off.

Eddie is a on our team...if you don't like the Broncos GTFO.

I hope when Eddie returns to the field he has his best games as a Bronco as well.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 03:02 PM
I will take you on that bet.

What is the wager?

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 03:03 PM
"Success" and "McD offense" should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

Royal is a "Shanahan guy"...we all know what happened to all the Shanahan guys when McD was here. They all got embarrassed and shipped out. Get off Eddie's nuts.

::)

Northman
10-10-2011, 03:09 PM
You are hopeless. No we don't have Brady. That doesn't matter. If a slot receiver can't have success in a McD offense with a QB producing above average yardage totals, he's probably not that good. And if you move Royal to the outside you end up facing the reality that he is undersized for such a role. Again this does not help the case for his supposed greatness. But whatever. You probably believe in fairies and unicorns as well...

You do realize that under McDaniels this year Bradford is one of the worst QB's in the league right? While i agree that the system that is used with Welker is a great system (something i still think Royal would be good in) you still have to have a QB who can scan the field, hit the targets in stride, and make all the throws. Currently we dont have that on this team. Also keep in mind that Eddie was on the outside his rookie year. He is undersized, but if you have a QB who can actually get him the ball he will perform.

Bronco Yoda
10-10-2011, 03:15 PM
Royal IMO is good at the slants and go's where you can hit him in stride. He's not really able to go up and fight for the ball and he gets pushed around when he has to sit down and claim his territory. Cutler had the arm and Shanahan had the offense to make things happen with ER. Since then he's not been able to fit in too well. I hope something changes.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 03:25 PM
::)

I am rooting for Eddie Royal and the Broncos...You can do what you want, but there is no evidence that says Eddie isn't a good player when healthy.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 03:27 PM
What is the wager?

unfriendly bet...

Eddie is a Bronco next year.

Inkana7
10-10-2011, 03:59 PM
I am rooting for Eddie Royal and the Broncos...You can do what you want, but there is no evidence that says Eddie isn't a good player when healthy.

So he's been unhealthy since his Rookie year?

Hey, I like Eddie and I hope he does well. He's a pretty good returner. But as a receiver? Let's face it, he's not as great as his rookie year might suggest. He drops a LOT of balls and for whatever reason can't get separation.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 03:59 PM
I am rooting for Eddie Royal and the Broncos...You can do what you want, but there is no evidence that says Eddie isn't a good player when healthy.

Sure, if you completely ignore his lack of production...

And I'm not rooting against the guy. He seems like a good kid and I'd love for him to tear it up for us. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking he's great based off of one season that is long past.

maher_tyler
10-10-2011, 04:08 PM
Except that Gaffney of all people was more productive than him two years in a row. You're logic just doesn't hold up. Royal just isn't that good. The evidence is pretty overwhelming at this point.

I just don't agree with you that he isn't any good. During the Cincy game before he got hurt, it looked to me that he was poised for a big game. Looked like the passing game was going to be focused around him. I could be wrong, time will tell. He is far from the worst of our problems and is a team first guy...he's a guy i want on this team for a long time. Can return punts and kicks also.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 04:11 PM
I just don't agree with you that he isn't any good. During the Cincy game before he got hurt, it looked to me that he was poised for a big game. Looked like the passing game was going to be focused around him. I could be wrong, time will tell. He is far from the worst of our problems and is a team first guy...he's a guy i want on this team for a long time. Can return punts and kicks also.

I never said he was terrible. Don't read into what I'm saying. I'm just saying that he isn't that good. And by "that good" I mean he's not a guy that is likely to ever be a feature receiver or even sniff a thousand yards. He's fine as a depth player.

pricejj
10-10-2011, 04:13 PM
So he's been unhealthy since his Rookie year?

Hey, I like Eddie and I hope he does well. He's a pretty good returner. But as a receiver? Let's face it, he's not as great as his rookie year might suggest. He drops a LOT of balls and for whatever reason can't get separation.

I'm gonna let him play out the year until I make a judgement call on him...we just need this guy on the field.

maher_tyler
10-10-2011, 04:24 PM
WTF is up with all the Eddie hate? Get off his nuts. I hope when he gets back on the field he goes off.

Eddie is on our team...if you don't like the Broncos GTFO.

Because on the Mane, if you're not putting up pro bowl/HoF numbers at every position you're a bust or are garbage...

maher_tyler
10-10-2011, 04:27 PM
"Success" and "McD offense" should never be mentioned in the same sentence.

Royal is a "Shanahan guy"...we all know what happened to all the Shanahan guys when McD was here. They all got embarrassed and shipped out.

I'd say it was more Belichick the Mcd at this point..considering there has been zero drop off in that offense since Mcd left...