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View Full Version : Time for DJ to go?


McDman
10-09-2011, 10:33 PM
Honestly I've seen nothing but mediocre play out of him this year and I really don't think we lose much, if anything, when Woodyard is on the field. Not only did he not play well but he had that absolutely terrible penalty at the end of the game today.

I say we trade him for a third or fourth to Philly and just get it over with.

Also, isn't he going to be suspended soon anyways for his second DUI?

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 10:35 PM
We aren't going to get a third for him. No chance. But I do agree that Woodyard is just as good if not better. Right now our linebacker play outside of Von Miller is pretty miserable to be honest. I like Mays and Woodyard as backups, but we need real quality starters ahead of them.

TheDave
10-09-2011, 10:36 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but I consider DJ to be a huge improvement over Woodyard.

To be honest I think he is playing very well

24champ
10-09-2011, 10:36 PM
Honestly I've seen nothing but mediocre play out of him this year and I really don't think we lose much, if anything, when Woodyard is on the field. Not only did he not play well but he had that absolutely terrible penalty at the end of the game today.

I say we trade him for a third or fourth to Philly and just get it over with.

Also, isn't he going to be suspended soon anyways for his second DUI?

Woodyard is worse than DJ as a LB, Woodyard is a good ST player but not a starting LBer in this league.

Simple Jake
10-09-2011, 10:37 PM
Woodyard has proven to be one of our best tacklers so far this season.. DJ was constantly out of position today also.. sucks because i've always been a DJ supporter

McDman
10-09-2011, 10:38 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but I consider DJ to be a huge improvement over Woodyard.

To be honest I think he is playing very well

If he is an improvement I don't think it is huge.

Northman
10-09-2011, 10:48 PM
DJ is overrated. Always has been.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 10:48 PM
Lavonte David would look great with Miller. :homer:

24champ
10-09-2011, 10:52 PM
If he is an improvement I don't think it is huge.

I think its huge, when DJ can be a starter for other NFL teams and not Woodyard.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 10:53 PM
DJ is overrated. Always has been.

While this is probably true, he is presently playing worse than I've ever seen. He just seems to have dropped from above average LB to below average LB, and I have to wonder if it's the injuries.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 10:54 PM
I think its huge, when DJ can be a starter for other NFL teams and not Woodyard.

DJ would start on very few teams in the NFL playing at the level he is currently playing at.

24champ
10-09-2011, 10:56 PM
DJ would start on very few teams in the NFL playing at the level he is currently playing at.

Few teams would, and Woodyard wouldn't start on any NFL club. So I don't understand the logic of replacing a LBer with a scrub?

Popps
10-09-2011, 11:04 PM
Honestly I've seen nothing but mediocre play out of him this year and I really don't think we lose much, if anything, when Woodyard is on the field. Not only did he not play well but he had that absolutely terrible penalty at the end of the game today.

I say we trade him for a third or fourth to Philly and just get it over with.

Also, isn't he going to be suspended soon anyways for his second DUI?

I think you're being very kind when you say mediocre. I only had a chance to key in on him a few times, but he just routinely takes himself out of plays.
I don't remember the last big play he made, and he seems to be getting dumber with age. (See the potentially game-losing penalty today.)

Yea, we could trade him I suppose. What's the market like for a drunk, ho-hum LB with pending legal and league issues? (Who was stripped of his captaincy)

Yea, yea.. I know... his tackle numbers are outstanding!

SoCalBronco
10-09-2011, 11:10 PM
http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/554/original/facepalm.jpg?1248715065

He had some issues today with poor angles and missed tackles (and the penalty, which was a bad call, but he shouldn't have responded), but he's getting back from an injury. He'll be fine. He's only 29, so he has a few more good years to provide. He had some good plays too...a sack, a couple stuffs on the goalline and a pass defensed (two actually).

Hopefully the bye will help him heal up.

Carmelo15
10-09-2011, 11:22 PM
I like Woodyard. But anyone he says he's better than D.J. just reveals their lack of football knowledge. SMH. We have much bigger problems. That penalty was complete B.S.

BroncoMan4ever
10-09-2011, 11:33 PM
never been a big DJ fan and actually have said for the last few seasons Woodyard is better. DJ keeps his job ahead of Woodyard because of his contract and leadership.

on the field Woodyard outplays him.

Popps
10-10-2011, 12:00 AM
IAOFM has some of the most solid Broncos analysis around. Here's the take on Williams today...

.7. Despite his incredible athleticisim, D.J. Williams is rarely in the right position.  The defense was probably better off when he was on the sideline.  His personal foul penalty late in the game was, how should I put it, ill advised?  Actually, I know exactly how to put it.  It was completely stupid.  I'm not sure if he'll apologize to his teammates for giving the game away like that, but he should give it serious consideration.  As Bill Belichick would say, "One stupid play can make all the difference."  Williams again had a lot of tackles, but why do I always feel like he left double the numbers on the field?

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:05 AM
Few teams would, and Woodyard wouldn't start on any NFL club. So I don't understand the logic of replacing a LBer with a scrub?

I don't think anyone is advocating replacing Williams with Woodyard. At best that's a pointless lateral move. He clearly needs to be replaced in the offseason though. Woodyard is a good backup and that's it. Williams is seriously overpaid and a liability with his DUI's.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:08 AM
IAOFM has some of the most solid Broncos analysis around. Here's the take on Williams today...

.7. Despite his incredible athleticisim, D.J. Williams is rarely in the right position.  The defense was probably better off when he was on the sideline.  His personal foul penalty late in the game was, how should I put it, ill advised?  Actually, I know exactly how to put it.  It was completely stupid.  I'm not sure if he'll apologize to his teammates for giving the game away like that, but he should give it serious consideration.  As Bill Belichick would say, "One stupid play can make all the difference."  Williams again had a lot of tackles, but why do I always feel like he left double the numbers on the field?

I agree with everything but blaming him for that penalty. It was a chippy game from start to finish, and what he did is something I've never seen called before. It was complete bull**** to be honest.

SoCalBronco
10-10-2011, 12:13 AM
DJ is a very good player who had a rough game and is returning from injury (its clear he's not all the way back). He's done a great job as an 8 year starter despite the team playing him at 4 different positions and never with a good line. I'd like to think people would give him a slight break for an uneven game (still made some good plays), guess not, though.

extralife
10-10-2011, 12:38 AM
DJ is the least of our problems. He's a relatively complete linebacker that isn't going to get noticed because he doesn't light the field up with sportscenter hits or scream at the sky and/or teammates after every play/before the game. He's not always in the right place, no, but people don't seem to understand that the line play he has suffered from over his career makes it remarkably difficult to do these things that people seem to take for granted (and his constant role changes have not helped).

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:50 AM
DJ is a very good player who had a rough game and is returning from injury (its clear he's not all the way back). He's done a great job as an 8 year starter despite the team playing him at 4 different positions and never with a good line. I'd like to think people would give him a slight break for an uneven game (still made some good plays), guess not, though.

I used to be with you on this one, but of late he's lost me. I just don't see a player worth the amount of money he's being paid. No matter how hard I look.

cutthemdown
10-10-2011, 01:42 AM
DJ getting older, drinks too much, is sort of always a let down, i could see the Broncos looking to draft a young weakside backer. Would not surprise me at all if the DJ super close to the end of his Bronco days. Not this yr, maybe next off season though.

cutthemdown
10-10-2011, 01:46 AM
Id try and build the whole linebacker corps as fast as i could, get 3 really good ones with Miller anchoring it that can then play together. People underestimate what playing together for 3-4 yrs together means to players.

we are really a work in progress, have lots of new players. Broncos quite honestly still need 3-4 more stud players to be added, or to emerge from the roster somewhere. I actually think Moore can be good even though hes not making big plays and some mistakes. Clearly hes better then carter though.

Until we have a stud at DT to anchor the dline we cant really dominate. Vickerson and Bunkley not bad though way better then we had been getting from that spot.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:56 AM
Id try and build the whole linebacker corps as fast as i could, get 3 really good ones with Miller anchoring it that can then play together. People underestimate what playing together for 3-4 yrs together means to players.

we are really a work in progress, have lots of new players. Broncos quite honestly still need 3-4 more stud players to be added, or to emerge from the roster somewhere. I actually think Moore can be good even though hes not making big plays and some mistakes. Clearly hes better then carter though.

Until we have a stud at DT to anchor the dline we cant really dominate. Vickerson and Bunkley not bad though way better then we had been getting from that spot.

We have major needs at MLB, CB, SS, DT, RB, and WLB. This is why I get so perturbed at the notion of drafting yet another QB. This team has so many other needs...

ward63
10-10-2011, 03:50 AM
We have major needs at MLB, CB, SS, DT, RB, and WLB. This is why I get so perturbed at the notion of drafting yet another QB. This team has so many other needs...

I believe DT is our biggest need, BY FAR. No matter who we had there yesterday, they were getting pushed back 2-3 yard way too much!

chanesaw
10-10-2011, 05:02 AM
DJ is a very good LB, but not a great one. He doesn't seem to make enough big plays, especially for somebody with his natural athletic ability. However he has a great team first attitude, never complains to the media, and plays hard. His play this year is down a bit, but I think we will see big improvement after the bye. I also like the way they are bringing in Woodyard on passing plays to cover the TE, which allow Von to chase the QB. Now that most of the D is healthy, the players will settle into their roles and improve.

Drek
10-10-2011, 05:04 AM
Replacing DJ is SOOOOOOO far down the need list that its hardly worth discussion.

Coming off an injury that had him out basically all pre-season and up to this point this season, changing back to WOLB where he hasn't played in over half a decade, in a new defensive front, and people are surprised he isn't 100% comfortable out of the gate.

Despite that he is a far better option than Woodyard.

What this team needs more than anything is to go into next draft and select Manti Te'o or Vontaze Burfict. Both are much closer to the Laurinaitis/Maualuga duo that went in the 2nd round than to Patrick Willis who went in the top 10, so we can likely get a difference maker at another position with our pick in the first, coupled with a new MLB in the 2nd.

Imagine something like D'Andre Kirkpatrick or Jared Crick and Te'o/Burfict. That would be another two huge steps in the right direction defensively.

Elway 4 Life
10-10-2011, 06:06 AM
Mays needs to go way before DJ. DJ can still play, MAys never could.

McDman
10-10-2011, 07:57 AM
Few teams would, and Woodyard wouldn't start on any NFL club. So I don't understand the logic of replacing a LBer with a scrub?

Every time Woodyard is in the game the intensity level goes up and Woodyard gets plenty of tackles.

Hell, I remember a few years ago when two of our starting linebackers went out and Woodyard was one of the replacements, they didn't play that well all yeas as when he was in there.

Broncoman13
10-10-2011, 08:11 AM
Replacing DJ is SOOOOOOO far down the need list that its hardly worth discussion.

Coming off an injury that had him out basically all pre-season and up to this point this season, changing back to WOLB where he hasn't played in over half a decade, in a new defensive front, and people are surprised he isn't 100% comfortable out of the gate.

Despite that he is a far better option than Woodyard.

What this team needs more than anything is to go into next draft and select Manti Te'o or Vontaze Burfict. Both are much closer to the Laurinaitis/Maualuga duo that went in the 2nd round than to Patrick Willis who went in the top 10, so we can likely get a difference maker at another position with our pick in the first, coupled with a new MLB in the 2nd.

Imagine something like D'Andre Kirkpatrick or Jared Crick and Te'o/Burfict. That would be another two huge steps in the right direction defensively.

Dream scenario! Not sure where Kirkpatrick will end up. But I would imagine it would be toward the 7-10 position. If we pick earlier, say in the 3-5 range... it would be outstanding to trade down a bit and get an extra pick to spend on a RB. Speed back in the 2nd or 3rd round. Demps/James type.

Lots of football left to play, but I think CB is a more pressing need at this point. Champ is no longer a game changer. Still a stud in coverage, but doesn't make the spectacular play anymore. Plus, with Goodman and Vaughn giving up yardage by the ton, it's a position in dire need of an upgrade. CB, MLB (though I am not quite as down on Mays as most), DT, RB, SS.

All of this is assuming that Tebow shows enough to warrant us staying with him and not drafting a QB in the first, Luck or otherwise.

Br0nc0Buster
10-10-2011, 08:14 AM
DJ is solid and is better than Woodyard

He isnt going anywhere, nor should he

Unfortunately he also has the intellectual capacity of a ferret so we occasionally will have some on and off the field issues with him

snowspot66
10-10-2011, 08:15 AM
Can we stop bitching about DJ? This has gone on for years and for years he has been one of our least concerns. We have bigger needs to address.

cmhargrove
10-10-2011, 08:24 AM
Mays needs to go way before DJ. DJ can still play, MAys never could.

We might just check our opinions against the facts here.

Mays may be a liability in coverage, but the dude is a tackling hammer. Also, he led our team in tackles yesterday.

When you lead the team in tackles, you probably don't suck. Woodyard is our leader on the season, with Mays in second place.

edog24
10-10-2011, 08:38 AM
I think what we are expecting from DJ is a pipe dream. His strength was from the weakside making plays when our LB corps were very good and he could clean up while lineman had to focus on our other good LB's. Now they all suck, and blockers can focus on DJ almost exclusively and let Mays over pursue and run around like a maniac.

I would say he is above average, not great, nor will he ever be. For our talent level right now, he is serviceable while we fill other more gaping holes on the D.

Drek
10-10-2011, 08:42 AM
Lots of football left to play, but I think CB is a more pressing need at this point. Champ is no longer a game changer. Still a stud in coverage, but doesn't make the spectacular play anymore.

Champ can't be a game changer when the entire rest of our secondary is a liability. Too easy to just avoid him.

We might just check our opinions against the facts here.

Mays may be a liability in coverage, but the dude is a tackling hammer. Also, he led our team in tackles yesterday.

When you lead the team in tackles, you probably don't suck. Woodyard is our leader on the season, with Mays in second place.

DJ has led this team in tackles for almost his entire career. How does that fit with your "lead the team in tackles = not suck" hypothesis?

Mays can't cover, at all. He grossly over pursues all the time. He's got no lateral agility at all. He picks a hole, he hammers into it, and if he picks wrong he screws the rest of the team over.

Woodyard has many of the same issues, though he's far more agile. But he's small and can be eliminated by TEs and FBs easily, let alone stand against a guard.

Neither of them are every down starters. DJ is an every down starter. Give him some time to knock the rust off and he'll be a key part to our defense improving down the stretch.

razorwire77
10-10-2011, 08:55 AM
Replacing DJ is SOOOOOOO far down the need list that its hardly worth discussion.


That's really what it comes down to. D.J. had a bad game coming off an injury. His instincts are below average, and if this team was a playoff contender trying to break through, OK maybe you look to sign upgrade from D.J., but when you're starting Joe "I can't tackle anybody in space Mays" A 47 year-old Brian Dawkins, who as much of a warrior as he is, really can't function much more than as an in the box safety, Andre ****ing Goodman, and a D-line that lacks any rotational depth at all, D.J. really ain't really the major problem.

DT, MLB, CB depth, RB, interior offensive-lineman depth are all areas that need to be addressed first.

Now, if you want to argue that D.J. is overpaid (which I think he is), well that's another discussion.

barryr
10-10-2011, 08:58 AM
I have always thought DJ was overrated. He leads the team in tackles most years. That's nice, but being the leading tackler on one of the worst defenses every year the last few years will not make a good resume. How many impact plays does he ever make? Making tackles 5-15 yards down field does not make one great. He isn't horrible, but he isn't exactly a big difference maker either. He's replaceable.

baja
10-10-2011, 09:19 AM
http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/554/original/facepalm.jpg?1248715065

<B>He had some issues today </B>with poor angles and missed tackles (and the penalty, which was a bad call, but he shouldn't have responded), but he's getting back from an injury. He'll be fine. He's only 29, so he has a few more good years to provide. He had some good plays too...a sack, a couple stuffs on the goalline and a pass defensed (two actually).

Hopefully the bye will help him heal up.

Ya Orton had a few issues on Sunday as well, he couldn't hit his receivers.

You are such a homer when it comes to DJ or Dick Nixon

baja
10-10-2011, 09:22 AM
I hope we spend major assets on D this off season.

24champ
10-10-2011, 10:21 AM
Every time Woodyard is in the game the intensity level goes up and Woodyard gets plenty of tackles.


So does DJ, he lead the team in tackles the past couple seasons. Woodyard has started 4 games THIS season and how many sacks did he get in DJ's place? ZERO. Coming off a major injury, DJ already got a sack in a yesterday's game.

cabronco
10-10-2011, 10:31 AM
Speaking of Mays, he may not be the best all around LB, but its fun watching him blow running backs up ! I believe he sent Tolbert out of the game, and blew up a couple more. We definetly need upgrades on D, but they are playing physical. When TT came in they seemed to step it up a notch.

baja
10-10-2011, 11:32 AM
Love watching Mays "Kaboom" people.

Simple Jake
10-10-2011, 12:14 PM
That hit on Matthews for a 5 yard loss by Mays made me jump outta my seat.. by the end of the game if you looked at Matthews and Hesters body language they were frustrated about getting hit so hard all the time.. especially on that last drive the entire D was putting hits on the running backs

BroncoMan4ever
10-10-2011, 01:00 PM
DJ is a very good LB, but not a great one. He doesn't seem to make enough big plays, especially for somebody with his natural athletic ability. However he has a great team first attitude, never complains to the media, and plays hard. His play this year is down a bit, but I think we will see big improvement after the bye. I also like the way they are bringing in Woodyard on passing plays to cover the TE, which allow Von to chase the QB. Now that most of the D is healthy, the players will settle into their roles and improve.

DJ used to be a good LB, but lately he is just serviceable. he isn't really impacting games anymore. it is like watching a slightly better Ian Gold again. he makes a lot of tackles but they aren't anything special when they are tackles 5-8 yards up the field.

Elway 4 Life
10-10-2011, 01:00 PM
We might just check our opinions against the facts here.

Mays may be a liability in coverage, but the dude is a tackling hammer. Also, he led our team in tackles yesterday.

When you lead the team in tackles, you probably don't suck. Woodyard is our leader on the season, with Mays in second place.

Mays also led the team on whiffs, and is number one on the team in this category. FACT I did enjoy him blowing up Matthews for the -5 loss though. I'm just not sure he thinks when he plays. To me he just looks like he runs balls out at a hole and hopes he makes the play. His lateral movement is horrible and he consistantly makes bad decisions. I think he is a very valueable goaline LB but he is not an every down starter. We need better to be better.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:01 PM
I believe DT is our biggest need, BY FAR. No matter who we had there yesterday, they were getting pushed back 2-3 yard way too much!

Our DT problem isn't as glaring as last year, but yeah it's still a major need.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:02 PM
Mays also led the team on whiffs, and is number one on the team in this category. FACT I did enjoy him blowing up Matthews for the -5 loss though. I'm just not sure he thinks when he plays. To me he just looks like he runs balls out at a hole and hopes he makes the play. His lateral movement is horrible and he consistantly makes bad decisions. I think he is a very valueable goaline LB but he is not an every down starter. We need better to be better.

I think Mays would be fine as a backup and goalline LB like you say. We definitely need to upgrade at the position though. As a starter he is clearly sub-par.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:04 PM
That hit on Matthews for a 5 yard loss by Mays made me jump outta my seat.. by the end of the game if you looked at Matthews and Hesters body language they were frustrated about getting hit so hard all the time.. especially on that last drive the entire D was putting hits on the running backs

I doubt they were that frustrated. They got 160 or so yards on the ground...

Popps
10-10-2011, 01:23 PM
Replacing DJ is SOOOOOOO far down the need list that its hardly worth discussion.


I don't know man. I realize he's not in the top 4 needs, per se. But, why is it that we consistently look better when he's out of the line-up? I think he's been an overlooked weak link on this defense for a long time, and I think a lot of the big running plays we've regularly seen are attributed to him being so lost out there.

That said, I think we could easily replace him in FA. I mean, half of the people watching already feel like Woodyard is an upgrade. I certainly think our defense looks more solid when he's out. It's become very apparent in the past two games.

Popps
10-10-2011, 01:24 PM
Mays probably isn't a top caliber starter, but you've got to find a way to keep him on the field in the right situations. He makes teams pay for running the ball on a regular basis, and that's something we haven't had for a long time.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 01:24 PM
If you want Teo, you are going to have to use a Top 25 selection on him. Suggesting that we could get him in the second is a dream scenario. Him and Luke are going to dominate in the NFL and will get picked accordingly.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:27 PM
While some have made a good point regarding Williams level of play being low on our list of concerns, he is massively overpaid and that is always a factor. Then again, we are so far under the cap, it probably doesn't matter...

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:28 PM
If you want Teo, you are going to have to use a Top 25 selection on him. Suggesting that we could get him in the second is a dream scenario. Him and Luke are going to dominate in the NFL and will get picked accordingly.

There are always players in the early 2nd round that people were certain would be gone in the first. And predicting things this far out is particularly silly to be honest.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 01:28 PM
Mays probably isn't a top caliber starter, but you've got to find a way to keep him on the field in the right situations. He makes teams pay for running the ball on a regular basis, and that's something we haven't had for a long time.

Mays also makes his fair share of whiffs in the running game because he has small arms (length) and doesn't drive through the ball carrier; instead he would prefer to kill them. He also lacks a bit in being able to move laterally and doesn't always get the best angle on the ball carrier. This is based off of seeing Joe Mays career with NDSU Bison and his whole entire NFL career. There are just physical limitations to his game that cannot be overcome -- but I love the guy.

He is a good two-down guy, but isn't an all-down backer who will make our defense special. You're right though -- in the right scenarios he deserves action. Just don't put him back in coverage.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 01:28 PM
There are always players in the early 2nd round that people were certain would be gone in the first. And predicting things this far out is particularly silly to be honest.

Luke and Teo are going in the first round. I will put a grand on it right now. Want to take up the bet?

Play2win
10-10-2011, 01:57 PM
We might just check our opinions against the facts here.

Mays may be a liability in coverage, but the dude is a tackling hammer. Also, he led our team in tackles yesterday.

When you lead the team in tackles, you probably don't suck. Woodyard is our leader on the season, with Mays in second place.

The Dude seems to plug the middle. Our Run defense seems much better, and Mays has got to have something to do with that. Without Mays, Teams would probable have twice the rushing yards. We would have a lot less wins if our run defense was at least this good... oh, wait...

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:00 PM
Luke and Teo are going in the first round. I will put a grand on it right now. Want to take up the bet?

No thanks. That would be a stupid bet. But to say it's not possible they slip to the early 2nd round before the college season, combine, or pro days are in is a bit premature wouldn't you say?

Play2win
10-10-2011, 02:01 PM
Its great to at least have a little certain physicality to our D again. Have missed that!!

24champ
10-10-2011, 02:27 PM
I don't know man. I realize he's not in the top 4 needs, per se. But, why is it that we consistently look better when he's out of the line-up?

Care to list which games we looked great in without DJ? Just curious when the factual information comes in here...


That said, I think we could easily replace him in FA. I mean, half of the people watching already feel like Woodyard is an upgrade. I certainly think our defense looks more solid when he's out. It's become very apparent in the past two games.

Half? There's one or two people clamoring for Woodyard because they have it in for DJ. I don't know where they see the upgrade but anyone stating that DJ is worse than Woodyard has a below average football IQ. Woodyard isn't even half the linebacker that DJ is. As shown yesterday, DJ who had one perfectly functioning arm and he still outperforms Woodyard by a mile. Woodyard is not a starting NFL LBer. He isn't great, nor solid. He is what he is...a special teams player.

24champ
10-10-2011, 02:30 PM
Luke and Teo are going in the first round. I will put a grand on it right now. Want to take up the bet?

I'm torn between Teo and Burfict.

Elway 4 Life
10-10-2011, 02:38 PM
I'm torn between Teo and Burfict.

I would love to have either one. They are both gonna be good.