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View Full Version : How the Andrew Luck saga may play out


brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 08:22 PM
Alright, let me begin that I am the antithesis of the "Suck for Luck" crowd. I would rather cheer for a team that plays with heart and plays to win. However, the whole Luck thing does fascinate me from the standpoint of how various scenarios play out.

Let's begin with some records shall we? Currently the Colts, Dolphins, and Rams all sit win-less. Then you have the Eagles, Vikings, Panthers, Cardinals. Jaguars, and Broncos with one win. We'll also throw in the Seahawks, Chiefs, and Browns as teams with 2 wins who may be looking at a QB change this off-season.

If you look at the win-less teams who stand the best chance of picking #1, only the Dolphins are clearly picking Luck if they get to the #1 spot. The Rams have Bradford and the Colts would see too much value in moving down with Manning coming back. Of the one win teams you have the Vikings, and maybe the Broncos looking at Luck for their team. The Eagles have Vick and Young, Panthers just drafted Newton, the Jags drafted Gabbert, and the Cardinals just traded for Kolb. Then you have the Seahawks, Chiefs and Browns of the two win teams looking for a possible QB change.

So if we line them up by record we have:

1. Indy
2. Miami
3. St. Louis
4. Carolina
5. Arizona
6. Philly
7. Denver
8. Jacksonville
9. Seattle **(9-11 are in no particular order)**
10. KC
11. Cleveland

Realistically, only 3-4 of the top ten picking teams based on current records have any interest in getting a starting QB from the draft. What does this mean?

Scenario #1: A team that needs a QB "wins" the top pick and selects Luck. Currently Miami seems to be in the best position for this scenario to play out. There are scenarios where another team could fall to the top pick, but it seems unlikely.

Scenario #2: What I think is more likely is that you get a team like the Rams or Indy that see the value of the #1 pick in terms of its trade value. Let's use the Rams as an example.

The Rams have Bradford and are presumably not looking to trade him or draft Luck. Therefore, the Rams are going to be shopping that #1 pick. Especially if a team like Miami or KC is sitting with the #2 pick. They can the parlay that pick into a series of picks with which to build their team up from the draft. So the Rams could drop down ten spots, still get a quality player that can help them out, and pick up an extra second this year and a first and second next year.

Scenario #3: A team not necessarily needing a QB drafts him anyways. Lets say that Indy finishes last in the league. Now, I firmly believe that the Colts would trade out of that pick in a second. But let's say that they take Luck anyways because he is the replacement that they need for Manning who may or may not make it back from this injury. What kind of ridiculous "luck" would a franchise have to have to go from Manning to Luck?

Scenario #4: We get a draft and trade situation where a team like Carolina drafts him anyways in response to teams calling their bluff. Highly unlikely, but fun to think about anyways.

Scenario #5: The #1 pick comes down to a coin flip based on teams with identical records.

Obviously this will all either become more complicated or easily understood as the season progresses. With teams entering bye weeks now it will get a little bit trickier to just look at records until all is evened out and we get a few more games into the season. Personally, I just want to see how it all unfolds.

Tombstone RJ
10-09-2011, 08:26 PM
I have no interest in playing the Luck hypotheticals game. I'm just glad Orton was benched and I hope Tebow is starting the rest of the year.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:32 PM
Put the records in there.

Right now:

Indy: 0-5
Miami: 0-4
St. Louis: 0-4
Philly: 1-4
Minny: 1-4
Jax: 1-4
Carolina: 1-4
Arizona: 1-4
Denver: 1-4

Allies: Carolina, St. Louis, Philly

Neutral: Arizona, Jax, Minnesota

Enemies: Indy, Miami

TDmvp
10-09-2011, 08:33 PM
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9850/ghostbustersh.jpg

maven
10-09-2011, 08:34 PM
To add with the instability at the QB position, and a terrible defense Denver can be right in the thick of things in regards to Luck.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 08:35 PM
I have no interest in playing the Luck hypotheticals game. I'm just glad Orton was benched and I hope Tebow is starting the rest of the year.

I agree with the second part for sure. I have no interest in drafting Luck. I hope we aren't even close to being in position to draft Luck. I just think watching the whole thing unravel throughout the year is going to be interesting.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 08:36 PM
On Nov 18th I think we'll get an idea what the Suck for Luck sweepstakes look like for us.

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 08:36 PM
I'm sorry but the Colts will take Luck if they get the pick. No doubt about it. They were a complete ****hole until they got Manning. Manning has AT BEST another couple of years left in the tank and they know it. They'll take Luck.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:38 PM
I'm sorry but the Colts will take Luck if they get the pick. No doubt about it. They were a complete ****hole until they got Manning. Manning has AT BEST another couple of years left in the tank and they know it. They'll take Luck.

My theory Manning might come back and play a few games before the end of the season. If Manning plays, there's a good chance they win some games.

Now Miami..............

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 08:38 PM
Oh yeah. The good news of this weekend regarding other teams is that the Chiefs have effectively removed themselves from the Luck sweepstakes. They would have to lose out AND have the Colts win three games just to have a higher pick than them. No facing Luck twice a year for us at the very least.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 08:38 PM
To add with the instability at the QB position, and a terrible defense Denver can be right in the thick of things in regards to Luck.

Also be tougher on the road (miami and kc are still only games I expect to win) I do admit watching Tebow will be more fun.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 08:39 PM
Something else that I found interesting while looking at records:

Remember when Harbaugh was hired to coach the 49ers and the thought was that he would play Alex Smith and the team would be awful and he could then draft Luck? Well, they are currently 4-1 and in first place in their division.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:39 PM
Oh yeah. The good news of this weekend regarding other teams is that the Chiefs have effectively removed themselves from the Luck sweepstakes. They would have to lose out AND have the Colts win three games just to have a higher pick than them. No facing Luck twice a year for us at the very least.

The Chiefs, despite their tough injuries, are good enough to win more games.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:41 PM
Also be tougher on the road (miami and kc are still only games I expect to win) I do admit watching Tebow will be more fun.

I'm skeptical of Tebow. I am rooting for him, but I am very skeptical of his game.

The Broncos are bad all over. We will see what happens in the upcoming games. Right now the Broncos are very bad(1-4).

maven
10-09-2011, 08:44 PM
Something else that I found interesting while looking at records:

Remember when Harbaugh was hired to coach the 49ers and the thought was that he would play Alex Smith and the team would be awful and he could then draft Luck? Well, they are currently 4-1 and in first place in their division.

Weak division, QB coach as head coach, and they already drafted their QBOF in Colin Kaepernick high in the 2nd round.

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 08:45 PM
The Chiefs, despite their tough injuries, are good enough to win more games.

Maybe. They do face the Dolphins and we always seem to split regardless of team talent. The next best chance would be at Chicago. Their schedule is just as brutal as ours is.

extralife
10-09-2011, 08:45 PM
I think the OP is underestimating the amount of teams that would draft Luck. Of those in contention, I think Carolina is the <i>only</i> team that absolutely would not draft him. Yes, I think even St. Louis would consider it (at which point Bradford would be on the market, and I'd think we'd be interested there as well).

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 08:46 PM
My theory Manning might come back and play a few games before the end of the season. If Manning plays, there's a good chance they win some games.

Now Miami..............

Manning isn't coming back to play a couple meaningless games. Come on now.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 08:47 PM
I think the OP is underestimating the amount of teams that would draft Luck. Of those in contention, I think Carolina is the <i>only</i> team that absolutely would not draft him. Yes, I think even St. Louis would consider it (at which point Bradford would be on the market, and I'd think we'd be interested there as well).

Not really. Bradford is the man in STL. They need receivers and defense, not another QB.

SoCalBronco
10-09-2011, 08:48 PM
Oh yeah. The good news of this weekend regarding other teams is that the Chiefs have effectively removed themselves from the Luck sweepstakes. They would have to lose out AND have the Colts win three games just to have a higher pick than them. No facing Luck twice a year for us at the very least.

Yes, this is a great development. I was concerned about this but now its not really a realistic scenario, which is great.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:49 PM
Maybe. They do face the Dolphins and we always seem to split regardless of team talent. The next best chance would be at Chicago. Their schedule is just as brutal as ours is.

The Chiefs aren't imploding. The coach wants to win, and so do the players. They haven't given up and they have an all right team(despite key injuries: Moeaki, Charles, Berry).

Go look at Miami and that team is imploding big time. There is some bad sh1t going on with that team.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 08:50 PM
Honestly this Luck bull**** just needs to go away. If we end up with the #1 pick go ahead and talk about it all you want, but right now it's utterly idiotic and premature.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:51 PM
Manning isn't coming back to play a couple meaningless games. Come on now.

I actually think he might. He's not taking these losses well. It's just an opinion Agamemnon.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 08:51 PM
Not really. Bradford is the man in STL. They need receivers and defense, not another QB.

They also need to fire McD and whoever made the dumbass decision to hire him in the first place...

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 08:52 PM
Just embrace it. It isn't going away until April so you might as well get on board and see where the ride goes.

I am hoping to an NFC team myself.

Tombstone RJ
10-09-2011, 08:52 PM
The Chiefs aren't imploding. The coach wants to win, and so do the players. They haven't given up and they have an all right team(despite key injuries: Moeaki, Charles, Berry).

Go look at Miami and that team is imploding big time. There is some bad sh1t going on with that team.

I guess that whole Brandon Marshall thing is working out well for the phins, eh?

maven
10-09-2011, 08:52 PM
Honestly this Luck bull**** just needs to go away. If we end up with the #1 pick go ahead and talk about it all you want, but right now it's utterly idiotic and premature.

See record.

See team.

It's a realistic possibility for this franchise.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 08:52 PM
See record.

See team.

It's a realistic possibility for this franchise.

I think it is a realistic possibility for a lot of teams.

extralife
10-09-2011, 08:53 PM
I actually think he might. He's not taking these losses well. It's just an opinion Agamemnon.

He can posture all he wants. When he gets close, Polian will pull him into the office and have a nice conversation with him.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:54 PM
I guess that whole Brandon Marshall thing is working out well for the phins, eh?

From GM(Ireland) to head coach(sporano) to vets(Jason Taylor) questioning the team practices to add(henne) is out. That organization is falling apart badly.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 08:54 PM
Honestly this Luck bull**** just needs to go away. If we end up with the #1 pick go ahead and talk about it all you want, but right now it's utterly idiotic and premature.

Its bye week Luck Luck Luck talk :)

maven
10-09-2011, 08:55 PM
He can posture all he wants. When he gets close, Polian will pull him into the office and have a nice conversation with him.

Doesn't Manning have a 28 million or some huge bonus coming in the offseason? I believe it's before the draft too.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 08:55 PM
I think I can already foresee the reaction of a lot of fans on draft night:

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/johncraig0880/GIFS/americanidolreaction.gif

maven
10-09-2011, 08:56 PM
I think it is a realistic possibility for a lot of teams.

True, hence the discussion.

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 08:57 PM
I could live with Miami getting him (they always seem to be underachieving and dysfunctional) though I was rooting for Seattle if not us (though I'd rather Tebow just proves himself so well we don't have a shot in hell at Luck anyway).

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 08:57 PM
I agree that I think Miami is going to be the one to draft him if the rest of the season plays out like it is now.

Imagine those fans that wanted Orton getting Luck instead.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 08:59 PM
I agree that I think Miami is going to be the one to draft him if the rest of the season plays out like it is now.

Imagine those fans that wanted Orton getting Luck instead.

I do think Miami has toughest road

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 09:00 PM
I do think Miami has toughest road

Well with Buffalo showing up for the first time in years they probably will go 0-6 in division. That gives them a great leg up on it.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:01 PM
See record.

See team.

It's a realistic possibility for this franchise.

No it's not. To get the #1 pick the Broncos likely need to win no more than one more game the rest of the season. Seeing as we have been competitive in all but one of our games and now are likely done with the pocket sloth who has seriously hampered our scoring ability for years, it's really unlikely we don't win at least two more games. I give us a 1 in 20 shot to get the #1 pick right now, and I almost feel like that's too generous.

And besides, even if it does eventually happen, talking about it after four games is just silly.

maven
10-09-2011, 09:02 PM
I do think Miami has toughest road

I could live with Miami getting him (they always seem to be underachieving and dysfunctional) though I was rooting for Seattle if not us (though I'd rather Tebow just proves himself so well we don't have a shot in hell at Luck anyway).

If I was a gambling man, I predict Miami will get the #1 overall pick.

spdirty
10-09-2011, 09:03 PM
Rumor going around that Gruden might take over for the fins. Hope so. I don't want him in Miami.

maven
10-09-2011, 09:05 PM
No it's not. To get the #1 pick the Broncos likely need to win no more than one more game the rest of the season. Seeing as we have been competitive in all but one of our games and now are likely done with the pocket sloth who has seriously hampered our scoring ability for years, it's really unlikely we don't win at least two more games. I give us a 1 in 20 shot to get the #1 pick right now, and I almost feel like that's too generous.

And besides, even if it does eventually happen, talking about it after four games is just silly.

Broncos have played 5 games. There are 3 teams with a worse record. It is a fair discussion whether you like it or not. The Broncos are an awful team. Can Tebow lead the Broncos to more victories? We will see.

Pick Six
10-09-2011, 09:07 PM
It's not a cinch that we'll beat Miami. Ergo, that's a roadblock to Miami getting the first pick...

spdirty
10-09-2011, 09:11 PM
It's not a cinch that we'll beat Miami. Ergo, that's a roadblock to Miami getting the first pick...

Yeah everyone's looking at the Miami game as though it's already in the bag as a win. They're talking like it's opening day 2005 or game 15 1998. We suck there, no matter how good we are, or how bad they are.

extralife
10-09-2011, 09:12 PM
Yeah everyone's looking at the Miami game as though it's already in the bag as a win. They're talking like it's opening day 2005 or game 15 1998. We suck there, no matter how good we are, or how bad they are.

...didn't we even lose to them opening day '05?

lol

maven
10-09-2011, 09:14 PM
It's not a cinch that we'll beat Miami. Ergo, that's a roadblock to Miami getting the first pick...

I totally agree. As I said before, this could be Matt Moore's revenge game against his former coach.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 09:15 PM
If I was a gambling man, I predict Miami will get the #1 overall pick.

I agree they are the favs for #1 overall pick

maven
10-09-2011, 09:16 PM
...didn't we even lose to them opening day '05?

lol

Any time the Broncos play @ the Bucs, Jags, Dolphins in September they lose. Must be the humidity.

extralife
10-09-2011, 09:17 PM
we lost there in the other game sp mentioned too. I'm smart. His point is not "it's not like we're great enough to assume a gimme," it's "we suck in Miami even when we're good." my bad.

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 09:17 PM
Yeah everyone's looking at the Miami game as though it's already in the bag as a win. They're talking like it's opening day 2005 or game 15 1998. We suck there, no matter how good we are, or how bad they are.

I'm not. I don't remember the last time we won in Florida regardless of the opponent. Hell I expect a loss just based on history.

spdirty
10-09-2011, 09:18 PM
...didn't we even lose to them opening day '05?

lol

Yeah. In 1998 we were 14-2 and lost to them out there. In 2005 we went 13-3 but got crushed that year out there. I can't think of a time when we ever won out there to be honest.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:19 PM
Broncos have played 5 games. There are 3 teams with a worse record. It is a fair discussion whether you like it or not. The Broncos are an awful team. Can Tebow lead the Broncos to more victories? We will see.

And there are four teams that have the same record as us. It just isn't likely to happen, and it's absurdly premature to even talk about it. And honestly after the promise Tebow showed today it seems blatantly ****ed up to me to actually hope we lose out so we can get Luck. This discussion honestly makes me sick as a Broncos fan. We have never had the #1 pick, and I don't want that to change. Ever.

BroncoBen
10-09-2011, 09:20 PM
Can you imagine how crazy Bronco Nation is going to be if the Broncos are in position to draft Luck, those Tewbow bandwagons will be empty as the Andrew Luck bandwagons fill. Its going to be a whole new vibe on here'.. Mark my words.

extralife
10-09-2011, 09:20 PM
This discussion honestly makes me sick as a <s>Broncos</s> Tebow fan.

fixed it for you

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 09:20 PM
It looks like we have our QB in Denver. Tebow was fantastic today.

Now he has 12 weeks to build his game, his repoire with the WR's, and wins.

Denver will likely beat KC twice, and has a decent shot to beat anyone now that Tebow is playing QB and we have already gotten Green Bay out of the way.

Tebow is our QB NOW. Screw Luck. I'm pulling for the Broncos...not Stanford.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 09:23 PM
What games do you expect Denver to win the rest of the way? KC and Miami are the only ones I can see us winning.

maven
10-09-2011, 09:23 PM
I agree they are the favs for #1 overall pick

Implosion from GM all the way down to the players. When you have the owner(Ross) who flies all the way out west(with GM) to try to convince Harbaugh to coach the team and offered huge money to no avail, yes they have problems. Everyone is trying to save their ass on the team, including the GM(Ireland, who has sucked). Sporano was then given a token 2 year extension.... Now the Dolphins are 0-4 and it's hell there. Fans aren't showing up, and the team is a complete mess. Henne, who isn't the answer, damages is shoulder and is done. Matt Moore? That is the fall back.

Yep, they the favs for #1 overall.

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 09:23 PM
What games do you expect Denver to win the rest of the way? KC and Miami are the only ones I can see us winning.

Honestly, I could see Tebow having a few stellar games where everything comes together and us beating anyone we play during those games.

Just like in the Houston game last year, Tebow looked like an unstoppable force today.

He has a few more of those games in him this season and our defense is now good enough to keep us in those games.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:25 PM
fixed it for you

If you are not sickened by the notion of the Broncos being the worst team in the league you are a ****ty fan. Period. Don't cross out my words and question my fanhood you infinitesimal piece of ****, because you are clearly anything but a fan of this team if you want us to lose enough games to have the #1 pick.

Oh and go **** yourself.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:28 PM
What games do you expect Denver to win the rest of the way? KC and Miami are the only ones I can see us winning.

Tebow nearly led us on a comeback against a superior team with no reps all week. You really think we won't pull out two or three wins for the rest of the season? Hell he led us to a win in only three games with an interim head coach at the helm of a terrible team. Come on now.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 09:31 PM
Tebow nearly led us on a comeback against a superior team with no reps all week. You really think we won't pull out two or three wins for the rest of the season? Hell he led us to a win in only three games with an interim head coach at the helm of a terrible team. Come on now.

I'm only looking at schedule and see those as wins. I have no idea the actual outcomes will be that why the game is played. Tebow is way more exciting to watch.

maven
10-09-2011, 09:34 PM
And there are four teams that have the same record as us. It just isn't likely to happen, and it's absurdly premature to even talk about it. And honestly after the promise Tebow showed today it seems blatantly ****ed up to me to actually hope we lose out so we can get Luck. This discussion honestly makes me sick as a Broncos fan. We have never had the #1 pick, and I don't want that to change. Ever.

It's not premature to talk about the bottom feeders in the NFL. Unfortunately, the Denver Broncos are one of them.

1-4

Will Tim Tebow help his team and bring some victories? I don't know. We will see. If Tebow helps deliver wins this discussion is done.

Rolandftw
10-09-2011, 09:34 PM
I agree that it's too premature. A loss in Miami changes that though, because they'd be staring a 1-7 start dead in the face.

Denver is unlikely to win any tiebreakers for draft position, unlike last year (due to sos). They'd probably have to go 1-10 after the bye, as I don't see Indy, St. Louis and Miami all getting to four wins.

spdirty
10-09-2011, 09:36 PM
If you are not sickened by the notion of the Broncos being the worst team in the league you are a ****ty fan. Period. Don't cross out my words and question my fanhood you infinitesimal piece of ****, because you are clearly anything but a fan of this team if you want us to lose enough games to have the #1 pick.

Oh and go **** yourself.

The difference between being the worst team in the league and the 7th worst is the worst team all of a sudden has their franchise qb for the next 15 years and probably makes the playoffs as early as 2012, while the 7th worst gets to reach for a DT while hoping that their sideshow gimmick can figure out how to throw an accurate ball from the pocket. Or resign Orton.

Yay 8-8 ceiling the next 3 years. That's what the superfan police would rather have.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 09:36 PM
I watched Fox 31 and they asked Les Shapiro is Tebow the answer. He said, he brought life to the O for the first time this year. After press conf he saw expressions of Fox and Elway they didn't look like they found their QB of the future.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:42 PM
The difference between being the worst team in the league and the 7th worst is the worst team all of a sudden has their franchise qb for the next 15 years and probably makes the playoffs as early as 2012, while the 7th worst gets to reach for a DT while hoping that their sideshow gimmick can figure out how to throw an accurate ball from the pocket. Or resign Orton.

Yay 8-8 ceiling the next 3 years. That's what the superfan police would rather have.

Rooting for your team to lose more games makes you a ****ty fan. Period. Getting the #1 pick rarely turns a franchise around on it's own, and in the meantime you were actually hoping for losses. Good job dip****.

maven
10-09-2011, 09:43 PM
Rumor going around that Gruden might take over for the fins. Hope so. I don't want him in Miami.

The owner has the money and will pay. Miami will be a hot destination if they secure the #1 overall pick. Lots of rumors floating around btw.

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 09:43 PM
I watched Fox 31 and they asked Les Shapiro is Tebow the answer. He said, he brought life to the O for the first time this year. After press conf he saw expressions of Fox and Elway they didn't look like they found their QB of the future.

Well why would they? Half a game and ten pass attempts does not make a franchise QB no matter how much potential the kid has.

Reporters need to shove the "analysis" to the side and report the facts.

maven
10-09-2011, 09:44 PM
I watched Fox 31 and they asked Les Shapiro is Tebow the answer. He said, he brought life to the O for the first time this year. After press conf he saw expressions of Fox and Elway they didn't look like they found their QB of the future.

There's no Tebow love in this organization. Just look at Fox's comments after the game.

Rolandftw
10-09-2011, 09:45 PM
The difference between being the worst team in the league and the 7th worst is the worst team all of a sudden has their franchise qb for the next 15 years and probably makes the playoffs as early as 2012, while the 7th worst gets to reach for a DT while hoping that their sideshow gimmick can figure out how to throw an accurate ball from the pocket. Or resign Orton.

Yay 8-8 ceiling the next 3 years. That's what the superfan police would rather have.

How is getting the 7th pick in the draft making Denver's ceiling 8-8? I agree that teams with great QB's can get better quick, and yeah Luck would make any team better right away.

But there's nothing to stop Denver from taking a QB, IF they walk away unimpressed from Tebow's 11.5 game audition. The franchise QB doesn't have to be the #1 pick in the draft. And other then the Mannings, most #1 picks have been busts (of those still in the NFL).

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 09:46 PM
Well why would they? Half a game and ten pass attempts does not make a franchise QB no matter how much potential the kid has.

Reporters need to shove the "analysis" to the side and report the facts.

You raise an excellent point. From sports media to political media...journalists just need to dig up info and explore stories instead of trying to convince everyone of their pet ideologies.

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 09:49 PM
There's no Tebow love in this organization. Just look at Fox's comments after the game.

Fox is just being diplomatic.

Everyone saw what happened.

Even the previously anti-Tebow media hoardes who saw what happened have been convinced.

extralife
10-09-2011, 09:49 PM
If you are not sickened by the notion of the Broncos being the worst team in the league you are a ****ty fan. Period. Don't cross out my words and question my fanhood you infinitesimal piece of ****, because you are clearly anything but a fan of this team if you want us to lose enough games to have the #1 pick.

Oh and go **** yourself.

You cheered against this team every second your idol wasn't in the lineup. Now that he plays, everyone else is the bad guy. Whatever you say, champ.

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 09:51 PM
There's no Tebow love in this organization. Just look at Fox's comments after the game.

Tell the fanbase

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:52 PM
Luck would make any team better right away.


That remains to be seen. Luck will probably be a very good, or even great QB, but right now he has yet to start a single game in the NFL. The notion that Luck is a "can't miss" prospect is pretty absurd to me (seeing as so many with that title have in fact busted), and the notion that he's a guaranteed all-pro is completely laughable. He may end up being a HoF QB, but to assume so is just silly.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:54 PM
You cheered against this team every second your idol wasn't in the lineup. Now that he plays, everyone else is the bad guy. Whatever you say, champ.

When did I cheer against the Broncos idiot? Just because I was miserably pessimistic about their prospects with Orton, doesn't mean I was rooting against them. But good job being an ass.

Blueflame
10-09-2011, 10:03 PM
Yeah. In 1998 we were 14-2 and lost to them out there. In 2005 we went 13-3 but got crushed that year out there. I can't think of a time when we ever won out there to be honest.

I do. SB XXXIII was played in Miami.

maven
10-09-2011, 10:12 PM
Fox is just being diplomatic.

Everyone saw what happened.

Even the previously anti-Tebow media hoardes who saw what happened have been convinced.

I hope that is right and Fox is playing his cards before the upcoming Miami game. We really shouldn't know who starts the Miami game(should be Tebow btw).

maven
10-09-2011, 10:13 PM
I do. SB XXXIII was played in Miami.

That was against the Falcons.

Blueflame
10-09-2011, 10:19 PM
That was against the Falcons.

Yes, it was. But spdirty said "I can't think of a time when we ever won out there to be honest"... the specification was "in Florida"; not "against a Florida team". :)

Looks like our most recent win... in Florida; against a Florida team.... was October 2, 2005 in Jacksonville (20-7).

Rolandftw
10-09-2011, 10:21 PM
That remains to be seen. Luck will probably be a very good, or even great QB, but right now he has yet to start a single game in the NFL. The notion that Luck is a "can't miss" prospect is pretty absurd to me (seeing as so many with that title have in fact busted), and the notion that he's a guaranteed all-pro is completely laughable. He may end up being a HoF QB, but to assume so is just silly.

I don't think he's a guaranteed future HoF by any stretch. But he has all the intangibles to be a great QB, and do think he would instantly improve pretty much any team that was even in close proximity to draft him.

And that doesn't count teams that are playing too good to likely be in the running for him (KC, Oakland, Washington, Seattle, San Francisco, Dallas) that would still take a likely step up if they could get him.

No player's a guarantee, but he's as close to one as I think you can get at the QB position.

With all that said, I hope we win enough that we don't get him. I would rather build the team's defense.

spdirty
10-09-2011, 10:52 PM
Rooting for your team to lose more games makes you a ****ty fan. Period. Getting the #1 pick rarely turns a franchise around on it's own, and in the meantime you were actually hoping for losses. Good job dip****.

Ok you ****ing moron, what good does it do to win 5 or 6 games rather than 1 game?? What?? Especially this year. Cuz right now 5 wins is the ultimate ceiling for this team.

Since your trying so desperately to take the title as chief of the fan police away from popps, let me ask you a question and give me an honest answer.

What good would it have done us to beat San Diego week 17 last year? Explain to this ****ty fan how better off we would be had we won that game.

****in idiot.

spdirty
10-09-2011, 10:55 PM
I do. SB XXXIII was played in Miami.

Ok you got me. :P. My point was at Miami against the dolphins.

strafen
10-09-2011, 10:56 PM
On Nov 18th I think we'll get an idea what the Suck for Luck sweepstakes look like for us.

5 out of our next 7 games will be on the road, I think...

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 10:57 PM
Ok you ****ing moron, what good does it do to win 5 or 6 games rather than 1 game?? What?? Especially this year. Cuz right now 5 wins is the ultimate ceiling for this team.

Since your trying so desperately to take the title as chief of the fan police away from popps, let me ask you a question and give me an honest answer.

What good would it have done us to beat San Diego week 17 last year? Explain to this ****ty fan how better off we would be had we won that game.

****in idiot.

I don't call out fans very often, but this is one case where I have no hesitation.

If you are hoping for your team to lose you suck as a fan. Period.

maven
10-09-2011, 10:59 PM
Yes, it was. But spdirty said "I can't think of a time when we ever won out there to be honest"... the specification was "in Florida"; not "against a Florida team". :)

Looks like our most recent win... in Florida; against a Florida team.... was October 2, 2005 in Jacksonville (20-7).

Good point. I wonder overall how is Denver against Florida teams. Interesting last win in FL was 2005.

spdirty
10-09-2011, 11:02 PM
How is getting the 7th pick in the draft making Denver's ceiling 8-8? I agree that teams with great QB's can get better quick, and yeah Luck would make any team better right away.

But there's nothing to stop Denver from taking a QB, IF they walk away unimpressed from Tebow's 11.5 game audition. The franchise QB doesn't have to be the #1 pick in the draft. And other then the Mannings, most #1 picks have been busts (of those still in the NFL).

If you have the 7th pick, you likely miss out on Luck, Jones, and Barkley. And you go into next year with more questions at qb. And if Tebow doesn't show himself to be the answer, we're screwed. Unless we can find some magic beans and whip up an amazing defense, as well as get a top 10 running game going. Which would take several years, and quite a bit of money spent on the right free agents.

spdirty
10-09-2011, 11:07 PM
I don't call out fans very often, but this is one case where I have no hesitation.

If you are hoping for your team to lose you suck as a fan. Period.

And what good would it have done us to win week 17 against the Chargers last year? How would we be better off right now?

You obviously wanted us to win that one superfan. Can you even say we would be better off had we won that game?

Blueflame
10-09-2011, 11:10 PM
Good point. I wonder overall how is Denver against Florida teams. Interesting last win in FL was 2005.

As I was going through the game records on profootballreference.com, what impressed me was... we really don't play the 3 Florida teams all that often, particularly the Bucs (cause they're NFC). I only looked back as far as 2005, but between now and then there were 2 seasons when we had no Florida teams on our schedule at all.

But according to profootballreference.com, the head-to-head records are:

Miami: 3-11-1 (regular season); 1-0 (playoffs)
Jacksonville: 3-5-0 (regular season); 1-1 (playoffs)
Tampa Bay: 5-2-0

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/head-to-head.htm

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 11:12 PM
And what good would it have done us to win week 17 against the Chargers last year? How would we be better off right now?

You obviously wanted us to win that one superfan. Can you even say we would be better off had we won that game?

Do I really need to repeat myself? If you are hoping for your team to lose you suck as a fan. Is that really that hard to understand? True fans root for their team to win. They don't sit there watching their team play, hoping for a loss and a higher draft pick.

spdirty
10-09-2011, 11:21 PM
Do I really need to repeat myself? If you are hoping for your team to lose you suck as a fan. Is that really that hard to understand? True fans root for their team to win. They don't sit there watching their team play, hoping for a loss and a higher draft pick.

But you don't want to answer my question. And you won't. Because you have no answer because you know that the truth is that they would have screwed themselves out of a major building block had they won that game.

See I want the team to get better. That's all. I don't whine about them, I don't b**** about them, I understand the mess they walked into from the time they started this gig, and I'm willing to be patient with the moves they make and see how it plays out.

But what do i know, I'm not one of those superfans that while puffin that chest out and rooting for WINS, turns around and whines and b****es and cries about how screwed up the front office and coach is just because they didn't do exactly what I wanted them to do. But, then again I'm not a superfan. I'm just a ****ty fan who wants his team to get better. Super Bowl contender better.

SoCalBronco
10-09-2011, 11:26 PM
I don't call out fans very often, but this is one case where I have no hesitation.

If you are hoping for your team to lose you suck as a fan. Period.

Not necessarily. One must always root for the result they feel is in the team's best interest. There are some rare situations where a loss may fit this category. What's important is to hope for the result that one feel's is in the best interest of the club, usually, but not always, its a win if we're talking a game.

Rolandftw
10-09-2011, 11:33 PM
If you have the 7th pick, you likely miss out on Luck, Jones, and Barkley. And you go into next year with more questions at qb. And if Tebow doesn't show himself to be the answer, we're screwed. Unless we can find some magic beans and whip up an amazing defense, as well as get a top 10 running game going. Which would take several years, and quite a bit of money spent on the right free agents.

That might not be true. There might not be as many teams looking to draft a QB as you might think. Look at the teams leading the race for Luck.

Dolphins-Definitely should target a QB, whether it's Luck or someone else.
Colts-Can't imagine them going after a QB unless it's Luck.
Rams-Unlikely they go after any QB period.
Jaguars-Just drafted a QB in the first round.
Vikings-Just drafted a QB in the first round.
Eagles-Have tons of money tied to Vick. Hard to imagine them staying as bad as they are right now too.
Panthers-Just spent the #1 pick on Newton.
Cardinals-traded a king's ransom to get Kolb.

Other then the Dolphins, no team on this list will look to take a 1st round qb unless they get the #1 pick.

Teams like the Seahawks, Chiefs and Cowboys could draft a QB but they all have better records then Denver at the moment. Course it's early and hopefully Denver keeps improving and sees the results in the standings. And a lot of the teams on the list could improve as well.. but I think a top 7 pick would likely net you one of the big 3 qb's if a team was so inclined to take one.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 11:40 PM
But you don't want to answer my question. And you won't. Because you have no answer because you know that the truth is that they would have screwed themselves out of a major building block had they won that game.

See I want the team to get better. That's all. I don't whine about them, I don't b**** about them, I understand the mess they walked into from the time they started this gig, and I'm willing to be patient with the moves they make and see how it plays out.

But what do i know, I'm not one of those superfans that while puffin that chest out and rooting for WINS, turns around and whines and b****es and cries about how screwed up the front office and coach is just because they didn't do exactly what I wanted them to do. But, then again I'm not a superfan. I'm just a ****ty fan who wants his team to get better. Super Bowl contender better.

Draft picks are something that happens after the season is over. If your team sucks and you get a high draft pick you can at least be happy that you got a high draft pick. But while the season is going you should always be rooting for your team to win. That's what this is all about. Winning games. And while 4-12 and 5-11 may not seem that far apart if we had gone 2-1 in those last three games maybe EFX wouldn't have just handed the starting job to Orton and sunk the beginning of the season in the process. Maybe we'd have a better record right now. There's no way to know.

See that's the thing. You can look at our current situation and be glad we sucked bad enough to get Von Miller. And you can say we are better off for it, but in the end you have no way to know. There are other great rookies that we might've picked instead. In the meantime you actually rooted for your team to lose. And that's lame.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 11:42 PM
Not necessarily. One must always root for the result they feel is in the team's best interest. There are some rare situations where a loss may fit this category. What's important is to hope for the result that one feel's is in the best interest of the club, usually, but not always, its a win if we're talking a game.

So does that apply to people hoping we lose every game from here on out so we can draft Luck? They think that will make our team better in the long run, so it's justified?

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 11:47 PM
Colts-Can't imagine them going after a QB unless it's Luck.


The Colts will almost certainly draft a QB with their 1st round pick, whether it's Luck or someone else. Manning may be done for good, and if not he's going to be done in a year or two. Drafting a guy to replace him is a must for them. With the new rookie pay scale it's actually possible to draft a QB witha top 3 pick and not have him start right away. It used to be financially unfeasible.

SoCalBronco
10-09-2011, 11:50 PM
So does that apply to people hoping we lose every game from here on out so we can draft Luck? They think that will make our team better in the long run, so it's justified?

That's not an unreasonable position for someone to take. If you believe Luck is a franchise QB, or is at least is a pretty good bet at being a franchise QB and if you also believe the team is going nowhere this year anyway, one could definitely reason that getting this player would provide more long term benefit. It's a perfectly defensible position for one to take. It's all about value and looking at the big picture, not just individual games. You must divorce emotion from this. There are some situations like this where a good faith argument can be made that a loss would be of more benefit.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:02 AM
That's not an unreasonable position for someone to take. If you believe Luck is a franchise QB, or is at least is a pretty good bet at being a franchise QB and if you also believe the team is going nowhere this year anyway, one could definitely reason that getting this player would provide more long term benefit. It's a perfectly defensible position for one to take. It's all about value and looking at the big picture, not just individual games. You must divorce emotion from this. There are some situations like this where a good faith argument can be made that a loss would be of more benefit.

And to me that just sounds like a crappy rationalization for rooting against your team. What if Luck isn't the savior? What then? You sucked as a fan for nothing.

I've been one of the most outspoken anti-Orton posters on here of late, and I still didn't root for the team to lose. Even though I knew that they would need to lose to bench Orton. I was completely uninspired as a fan, but I never rooted against the Broncos. In the end things will play out how they will play out. Rooting against your team doesn't help them in anyway. They'll suck or not suck either way. In the end you're simply rooting against your team. And that's lame, no matter what the rationalization behind it...

SoCalBronco
10-10-2011, 12:06 AM
And to me that just sounds like a crappy rationalization for rooting against your team. What if Luck isn't the savior? What then? You sucked as a fan for nothing.

I've been one of the most outspoken anti-Orton posters on here of late, and I still didn't root for the team to lose. Even though I knew that they would need to lose to bench Orton. I was completely uninspired as a fan, but I never rooted against the Broncos. In the end things will play out how they will play out. Rooting against your team doesn't help them in anyway. They'll suck or not suck either way. In the end you're simply rooting against your team. And that's lame, no matter what the rationalization behind it...

It's not a crappy rationalization, you're doing what you feel is in the team's best interest. Ofcourse, reasonable people can disagree on what constitutes the team's best interest, but so long as there is a good faith belief, that's enough. And what if he isn't the savior, then you lost nothing by it. Why? Because we had already determined that weren't going anywhere anyway and that was a threshold requirement before even getting into this position.

I'll let you in on a little secret: It's very likely we're going to get Andrew Luck one way or another. Elway has such an obvious boner for him, its beyond clear. He was at the game again this week and went off about him again. If we're going to get Andrew Luck (and its a worthy goal), then I'd rather have it be at the least expense possible (i.e. being at or real close to No. 1, rather than paying a King's ransom to move up and thus destroy the team's talent pool).

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:12 AM
It's not a crappy rationalization, you're doing what you feel is in the team's best interest. Ofcourse, reasonable people can disagree on what constitutes the team's best interest, but so long as there is a good faith belief, that's enough. And what if he isn't the savior, then you lost nothing by it. Why? Because we had already determined that weren't going anywhere anyway and that was a threshold requirement before even getting into this position.

How is rooting against your team in their best interests? I don't get that. It's not like you rooting against them is actually going to cause them to lose more games. As a fan you root for your team, and let the chips fall where they may. If we end up sucking bad enough to get the #1 pick so be it, but rooting for it to happen? Yeah that's crazy.

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2011, 12:15 AM
Andrew Luck does not play for the Denver Broncos.

Is there a reason why there are several threads about this guy on the main page during on-season mode?

SoCalBronco
10-10-2011, 12:17 AM
How is rooting against your team in their best interests? I don't get that. It's not like you rooting against them is actually going to cause them to lose more games. As a fan you root for your team, and let the chips fall where they may. If we end up sucking bad enough to get the #1 pick so be it, but rooting for it to happen? Yeah that's crazy.

Again, nothing we do has any effect, so that goes both ways. The key is you want the result that you believe is in the best interest to prevail. That's why one, hypothetically speaking, woudl support that result if they felt that a) Luck is a franchise talent and b) we aren't going anywhere, anyway. We're going in circles, now. It's always a value question where you are balancing the equities and comparing benefits to detriments. It's a fact intensive analysis where you divorce emotion from it.

And as I mentioned above, Elway has a massive hard on for him at this point. He's going to get his guy (sound familiar?), so if that's the case it would be best if we spent the least resources in the process.

Rolandftw
10-10-2011, 12:34 AM
The Colts will almost certainly draft a QB with their 1st round pick, whether it's Luck or someone else. Manning may be done for good, and if not he's going to be done in a year or two. Drafting a guy to replace him is a must for them. With the new rookie pay scale it's actually possible to draft a QB witha top 3 pick and not have him start right away. It used to be financially unfeasible.

If he's done for good, then I could see them doing it. Otherwise, I would be surprised. I think the Colts will go all in at trying to get Peyton one more championship, and that's a hard sell if you spend a top ten pick on a QB. With Luck, they would have an excuse.. don't think that same excuse would fly with anyone else.

Maybe a difference of opinion, but I'm not amazed by either Berkley or Jones. I think they are both talented QB's but nothing exceptional that they couldn't get in most drafts.

I expect they'll take an OT if they're in position to take a talented one. They can always take a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds if they are so inclined.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:37 AM
If he's done for good, then I could see them doing it. Otherwise, I would be surprised. I think the Colts will go all in at trying to get Peyton one more championship, and that's a hard sell if you spend a top ten pick on a QB. With Luck, they would have an excuse.. don't think that same excuse would fly with anyone else.

Maybe a difference of opinion, but I'm not amazed by either Berkley or Jones. I think they are both talented QB's but nothing exceptional that they couldn't get in most drafts.

I expect they'll take an OT if they're in position to take a talented one. They can always take a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds if they are so inclined.

I really hope the Colts aren't delusional enough to think they have any hope of contending with Manning back. That team is terrible without Manning and merely bad to mediocre with him. They aren't going to be contending any time soon.

As far as 2nd or 3rd round QBs, Kellen Moore could be a good fit for them.

Rolandftw
10-10-2011, 12:39 AM
And as I mentioned above, Elway has a massive hard on for him at this point. He's going to get his guy (sound familiar?), so if that's the case it would be best if we spent the least resources in the process.

Other then maybe the Rams, no team is trading Andrew Luck. No matter how many first round picks are thrown their way, it'd be potential career suicide to pass on him.

It'd be like the Cavs trading the #1 pick for a haul of picks/players instead of taking LeBron. The kid may not pan out, but if he does you will be known as the GM that passed on him.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:41 AM
And as I mentioned above, Elway has a massive hard on for him at this point. He's going to get his guy (sound familiar?), so if that's the case it would be best if we spent the least resources in the process.

I really hope he isn't that far gone on the matter. If we get the #1 pick and they really think he's going be a perennial all-pro I'm okay with it (though they better be right). But to trade away our entire draft? I think I might vomit if that happened...

extralife
10-10-2011, 12:42 AM
Other then maybe the Rams, no team is trading Andrew Luck. No matter how many first round picks are thrown their way, it'd be potential career suicide to pass on him.

It'd be like the Cavs trading the #1 pick for a haul of picks/players instead of taking LeBron. The kid may not pan out, but if he does you will be known as the GM that passed on him.

The three most hyped QBs to enter the draft in my lifetime have been Elway, Peyton, and Vick. Of those three, two were traded before they played a down.

Rolandftw
10-10-2011, 12:43 AM
I really hope the Colts aren't delusional enough to think they have any hope of contending with Manning back. That team is terrible without Manning and merely bad to mediocre with him. They aren't going to be contending any time soon.

As far as 2nd or 3rd round QBs, Kellen Moore could be a good fit for them.

I think their o line and pass defense are the biggest question marks. If they're willing to spend the money in fa, I think they could repair quick. They were terrible tho...

Like Kellen Moore a lot. But his height and arm strength are big question marks. Wouldn't surprise me still to see him be the 3rd or 4th best QB of the draft... and get taken in the 4th-5th round.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:46 AM
Other then maybe the Rams, no team is trading Andrew Luck.

Carolina would trade away the pick. And the Vikings and Jaguars would at least consider it. Drafting a QB in the 1st round in the NFL two years in a row is completely unheard of.

Rolandftw
10-10-2011, 12:57 AM
True, Carolina would. But I don't think they have much of a chance of getting the #1 pick. They're in every game they play it seems, and I think will win enough to not be near #1.

Same with Philly. They're doing bad now, and may continue to play bad... but I think they will win enough games to not really be under consideration to get him.

I do think the Jaguars and Vikings take Luck if they get the chance. I agree that it is unheard of and it would obviously force trades of Gabbert and Ponder respectively.

Rolandftw
10-10-2011, 01:00 AM
The three most hyped QBs to enter the draft in my lifetime have been Elway, Peyton, and Vick. Of those three, two were traded before they played a down.

I don't think Luck will pull an Elway, but you never know. Vick was only traded because SD was/is a cheap organization unwilling to meet his salary demands. Worked out well for them anyways, in hindsight.

Anyways, with the rookie salary being standardized that shouldn't really be an issue either.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:08 AM
True, Carolina would. But I don't think they have much of a chance of getting the #1 pick. They're in every game they play it seems, and I think will win enough to not be near #1.

Same with Philly. They're doing bad now, and may continue to play bad... but I think they will win enough games to not really be under consideration to get him.

I do think the Jaguars and Vikings take Luck if they get the chance. I agree that it is unheard of and it would obviously force trades of Gabbert and Ponder respectively.

Outside of the Green Bay game we've been in every game as well, and we finally have some hope at QB. If people think we have a chance at the #1 pick so do those teams...

As far as the Jaguars and Vikings go I think a lot depends on how they feel about their young QBs at the end of the year. Blaine Gabbert has been awful so far, and Ponder hasn't played yet. It's hard to predict one way or the other, but the fact that teams just don't draft QBs two years in a row tends to make me think they'd probably opt out for all the extra picks they could get.

cutthemdown
10-10-2011, 01:13 AM
until we have 2 games left in the season im not interested in playing this game.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 01:15 AM
until we have 2 games left in the season im not interested in playing this game.

A very reasonable position.

cutthemdown
10-10-2011, 01:48 AM
A very reasonable position.

I take it back your cool.

snowspot66
10-10-2011, 08:26 AM
How is rooting against your team in their best interests?

This is from the Penguins Wikipedia page.

Mario Lemieux, one of the most highly touted NHL draft picks in history, was due to be drafted in the 1984 NHL Entry Draft. Heading towards the end of the season ahead of the New Jersey Devils, who were placed last, the Penguins made a number of questionable moves that appeared to weaken the team in the short-term. The Penguins posted three six-game winless streaks in the last 21 games of the season (out of which they won only three) and earned the right to draft Lemieux amidst protests from Devils president Bob Butera.[4] Pittsburgh coach Lou Angotti later admitted that a conscious decision was made to finish the season as the team with the worst record, stating in an interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that a mid-season lunch prompted the plan, in light of the fact that there was a high chance of the franchise folding if Lemieux was not drafted.[5] In particular, Angotti gave the example of a game the Penguins were winning 31, at which point general manager Eddie Johnston asked the coach "what are you doing?" in the first intermission of the game that was eventually lost 63. The Penguins were still, despite losing ten of their last twelve games, only two games away from losing Lemieux to the Devils.

Now this is an extreme example of where the team actually made the decision to suck but the results are quite obvious. Years of championship contention, back to back Championships, and one of the best players to ever put on skates.

If you think Luck is a guy who can be like Elway, Manning, or Brady then you do whatever it takes to get him. Even if it means hoping for losses.

It's really up to Tebow. If he plays well he'll keep us far away from the top pick. If he doesn't we'll be going after Luck hard.

BroncoBen
10-10-2011, 08:35 AM
until we have 2 games left in the season im not interested in playing this game.

So don't play... let the rest of us dream of drafting Andrew Luck or Landry Jones with each Bronco loss. Get excited all you want with Tim Tebow with all his broken plays running around, and his 'Intangibles'.. until I see wins I am not a believer. Tebow is a perfect fit for the CFL not the NFL.

55CrushEm
10-10-2011, 08:55 AM
It's not a crappy rationalization, you're doing what you feel is in the team's best interest. Ofcourse, reasonable people can disagree on what constitutes the team's best interest, but so long as there is a good faith belief, that's enough. And what if he isn't the savior, then you lost nothing by it. Why? Because we had already determined that weren't going anywhere anyway and that was a threshold requirement before even getting into this position.

I'll let you in on a little secret: It's very likely we're going to get Andrew Luck one way or another. Elway has such an obvious boner for him, its beyond clear. He was at the game again this week and went off about him again. If we're going to get Andrew Luck (and its a worthy goal), then I'd rather have it be at the least expense possible (i.e. being at or real close to No. 1, rather than paying a King's ransom to move up and thus destroy the team's talent pool).

Every year there are people on here hoping we draft one of the top skill position players. Sam Bradford....struggling. CJ Spiller....on the bench. Adrian Peterson....great player, but his team is no better off than we are right now. The list goes on and on.

And will Andrew Luck be a great NFL QB? Perhaps.....probably. But every couple of years, another great college QB comes along. As I said, some here said we HAD TO HAVE Sam Bradford. And now Andrew Luck comes along. In a couple more years another Luck or Bradford will come along.

I think it's in the best interest of the team to stick with Tebow for at least this year and probably next. Our offense is VERY VERY young. Let them develop.....keep drafting predominantly defense....and see how we improve. If Tebow isn't panning out after these next 11 games, and one more season....THEN we go after the next "Luck".

BroncoBen
10-10-2011, 09:24 AM
Every year there are people on here hoping we draft one of the top skill position players. Sam Bradford....struggling. CJ Spiller....on the bench. Adrian Peterson....great player, but his team is no better off than we are right now. The list goes on and on.



I believe Sam Bradford had some kind of hand injury from week one, nerve damage and should be sitting out.

Fred Jackson is having what many are calling a MVP type of year, who do you play?

Didn't Peterson have like 3 TDs yesterday in their 34-10 win.

55CrushEm
10-10-2011, 09:31 AM
I believe Sam Bradford had some kind of hand injury from week one, nerve damage and should be sitting out.

Fred Jackson is having what many are calling a MVP type of year, who do you play?

Didn't Peterson have like 3 TDs yesterday in their 34-10 win.

You're missing my point. I listed 3 top offensive players that many on here clamored for during their respective drafts. I'm not saying they aren't good players. What I'm saying is that their teams either suck, or in the case of Spiller, he's not even a starter.

Hate to belabor an obvious point here.....but drafting Luck would guarantee nothing......and since we have so many other needs, and "more Lucks will come along"..... guess what I'm saying is that I'm going out on a limb, being premature, and saying that I don't want us to draft Luck......no matter what. We have too many other holes to fill.

Rolandftw
10-10-2011, 10:40 AM
Outside of the Green Bay game we've been in every game as well, and we finally have some hope at QB. If people think we have a chance at the #1 pick so do those teams...

Carolina's stayed close against teams like the Packers and Saints. We've stayed close against Oakland, Tennessee, and SD.

Not saying Denver will get the #1 pick (I think the odds are very low overall, again the SoS makes it very unlikely win any tiebreaker), but a loss in Miami after the bye and it's going to be the main story. Other then Miami, Minnesota and the two Kansas City games we have a brutal schedule. Doesn't mean we can't beat some of the other teams on our schedule but it would definitely be an upset.

Miami is probably the biggest game of Tebow's NFL career to this point.

BroncoBen
10-10-2011, 12:05 PM
You're missing my point..... ...."more Lucks will come along".....

Wasn't that the same thing that was said about Peyton Manning ? .. "more Peyton Mannings will come along".

peacepipe
10-10-2011, 12:14 PM
You're missing my point. I listed 3 top offensive players that many on here clamored for during their respective drafts. I'm not saying they aren't good players. What I'm saying is that their teams either suck, or in the case of Spiller, he's not even a starter.

Hate to belabor an obvious point here.....but drafting Luck would guarantee nothing......and since we have so many other needs, and "more Lucks will come along"..... guess what I'm saying is that I'm going out on a limb, being premature, and saying that I don't want us to draft Luck......no matter what. We have too many other holes to fill.Considering the impact a franchise QB makes for example,the Colts have a **** load of holes but you would've never known if it wasn't for Payton manning. if tobow doesn't pan out & denver has the #1 pick,luck it is.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:16 PM
It's really up to Tebow. If he plays well he'll keep us far away from the top pick. If he doesn't we'll be going after Luck hard.

I agree with this. And I've already said our chances of getting the #1 pick are pretty much squat right now. We have been mostly competitive with dog**** at QB. Now we have a guy that actually makes the players around him better. We're still bad, but we're not the worst team in the league.

RADRHATR
10-10-2011, 12:28 PM
I am of the opinion that Elway is currently or had conversations with Luck, telling him "just do what I did and tell all teams that you will not play for them and you only have interest in playing for the Broncos" . This is the only reason I can think of as to why our FO is such a clusterf**k right now. I do not think the Broncos want Tebow to succeed or give him the opportunity because it screws everything up for the Luck sweepstakes.

This organization is in real jeopardy of losing its fan base with the current shenanigans going on and they now have a very crucial two week period to decide how they want to proceed and the only way I see it is they have no choice to play Tebow from here on out and see if he will sink or swim. I am not a huge Tebow supporter but I am a huge fan of the way he plays and he by far gives the Broncos the "best chance to win"!

I do believe that Elway is 100% in the Luck sweepstakes and REALLY wants Tebow to fail because he was not his pick and Elway is such a competitor that he thinks that if he brings Luck to denver it will build to his legacy at this level.

RADRHATR
10-10-2011, 12:31 PM
Wasn't that the same thing that was said about Peyton Manning ? .. "more Peyton Mannings will come along".

Yes, and they have. Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers...

BroncsCheer
10-10-2011, 01:05 PM
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9850/ghostbustersh.jpg

that looks like a booger in the middle of the "no luck" symbol . .

MABroncoFan
10-10-2011, 09:41 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AmPpeXboD76fAPlXR_1MmSlDubYF?slug=jc-cole_colts_andrew_luck_2012_draft_101011

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 09:44 PM
I am of the opinion that Elway is currently or had conversations with Luck, telling him "just do what I did and tell all teams that you will not play for them and you only have interest in playing for the Broncos" .

Yeah that's totally plausible. /sarcasm

EmpireOrange
10-11-2011, 06:47 AM
I'm sorry but the Colts will take Luck if they get the pick. No doubt about it. They were a complete ****hole until they got Manning. Manning has AT BEST another couple of years left in the tank and they know it. They'll take Luck.

This is spot on with respect to Indy. They are already on record of saying they will draft him if the opportunity presents itself. Also, I would even throw in Philly as well. With Vick's style likelyhood of getting hurt game in and game out, they'd stupid not to draft Luck if they were in the postions. Bottom line, I live in Indy and I can say this franchise will not only draft Luck, they will hold Manning out the whole season to tank the season to draft Luck.

spdirty
10-11-2011, 08:17 AM
I just refuse to believe that Luck would allow himself to sit on the sidelines for 2-3 years while Manning finishes his career.

55CrushEm
10-11-2011, 08:18 AM
I just refuse to believe that Luck would allow himself to sit on the sidelines for 2-3 years while Manning finishes his career.

Why? Aaron Rogers did.

spdirty
10-11-2011, 08:26 AM
Why? Aaron Rogers did.

Aaron Rodgers wasn't the 1st pick like Luck will be. Hell half the teams in the league passed on Rodgers.

BroncoBen
10-11-2011, 08:32 AM
I just refuse to believe that Luck would allow himself to sit on the sidelines for 2-3 years while Manning finishes his career.

No kidding... Manning is a douch when it comes time to practice and pretty much takes all the reps, that is known fact.

But what can Luck do if the Colts draft him but sit on the bench, I don't think he can can pull a Elway and say he will go play Baseball instead of playing for the Colts.

Maybe the Colts draft him and demand a Kings ransom for him in future draft picks.

Rohirrim
10-11-2011, 08:37 AM
I don't know about that. Sounds to me like there's a possibility that Manning never plays another down in the NFL. I know if I had that kind of injury, I wouldn't. Maybe he'll pull a Bradshaw, though.

(For those who don't know the story, Bradshaw had elbow surgery but told the Steelers he was going to be fine, and ready to play. He wasn't. The Steelers passed on drafting Marino because of Bradshaw's assurances that he was ready to go).

robbieopperude
10-11-2011, 08:47 AM
After Seattles big upset win I am thinking more and more that Luck will be heading to Indi or Miami. Like I said in an earlier post the Rams are going to be 0-7 and look like a frontrunner but then there schedule gets infinitely easier.
Seattle really blew there chances by beating the G men.
KC and Minni hurt there causes too.
Miami is still right in this thing and if they lose to us it could be the start to an 0-16 season. I know Indi gets two winnable games against Jax. I'm not sure whoesle Miami has on there schedule besides us and K.C. I really think Denver is going to go in there with Tebow and put the hurt on them with Matt Moore as there new QB but who knows.

HooptyHoops
10-11-2011, 08:57 AM
Luck Bowl is the Broncos @ Miami game....I believe the Seahawks are easily the worse team, but they already, somehow, won 2 games.

TheChamp24
10-11-2011, 08:59 AM
The Suck for Luck bowl standings:
1. Indianapolis 0-5
2. Miami 0-4
3. St. Louis 0-4
4. Minnesota 1-4
5. Denver 1-4
6. Jacksonville 1-4
7. Carolina 1-4
8. Arizona 1-4
9. Philadelphia 1-4
10. Kansas City 2-3

Long shots to take Luck:
St. Louis - Bradford
Carolina - Newton
Jacksonville - Gabbert
Minnesota - Ponder

Possible long shots to take Luck:
Philadelphia - gave Vick huge money
Arizona - just traded for Kolb

Leaves down to 4 teams:
1. Indianapolis
2. Miami
3. Denver
4. Kansas City

Based on what I've seen and remaining schedule here is how I see each team finishing:
Indianapolis currently 0-5:
@Cincy - L
@Saints - L
@Titans - L
Falcons - L
Jaguars - W
Panthers - L
@Pats - L
@Ravens - L
Titans - W
Texans - L
@Jaguars - W
Final record: 3-13

Miami Dolphins currently 0-4:
@Jets - L
Broncos - W
@Giants - L
@Chiefs - L
Redskins - L
Bills - W
@Cowboys - L
Raiders - L
Eagles - L
@Bills - L
@Pats - L
Jets - L
Final record: 2-14

Denver Broncos, currently 1-4:
@Miami - L
Detroit - L
@Oakland - L
@KC - L
Jets - L
@Chargers - L
@Vikings - L
Bears - W
Patriots - L
@Bills - L
Chiefs - W
Final record: 3-13

Kansas City, currently 2-3:
@Oakland - L
Chargers - L
Miami - W
Denver - W
@Patriots - L
Steelers - L
@Bears - L
@Jets - L
Packers - L
Raiders - W
@Broncos - L
Final record: 5-11

Winner of the Suck for Luck bowl is....Miami!

Kaylore
10-11-2011, 09:10 AM
We could lose to Miami and then they get the tie breaker all things being equal. I don't have a terrible amount of confidence in this game. Miami owns us historically. The good news is that its October, and not the 100 degree weather we usually get there and we will probably have a lot fans rooting for Tebow. Still, with no Defensive Tackles and Tebow a work in progress, its going to be tough for sure.

If Tebow fails the rest of the way and doesn't show any improvement then I would welcome Luck being drafted. If he's good, hopefully we win ourselves out of first pick so the front office doesn't have to make that call.

NFLBRONCO
10-11-2011, 09:32 AM
We could lose to Miami and then they get the tie breaker all things being equal. I don't have a terrible amount of confidence in this game. Miami owns us historically. The good news is that its October, and not the 100 degree weather we usually get there and we will probably have a lot fans rooting for Tebow. Still, with no Defensive Tackles and Tebow a work in progress, its going to be tough for sure.

If Tebow fails the rest of the way and doesn't show any improvement then I would welcome Luck being drafted. If he's good, hopefully we win ourselves out of first pick so the front office doesn't have to make that call.



If we end up in position to get Luck we should do it regardless the promise fans see in Tebow. Alot of fans think Elway will do whatever it takes to get Luck. I think different I think only way we go hard after Luck is if Tebow really struggles rest of the way. I truly believe the fans wear the pants in the Broncos org now that the overblown Tebew mania is in full force will cloud FO judgement in 12 draft. I agree fans should have some say but, not run all the major decisions shows weakness in FO imo. I think Tebow mania so overblown that if he looks decent and we go 1-15 nobody would be open to taking at QB with top pick they'd be convinced wonderboy was for sure the answer.

barryr
10-11-2011, 09:59 AM
The Broncos would draft Luck if had the chance, but they only do if they lose out the rest of the season. Putting the future of your team on a player in the next draft you will be lucky to be in position to get is plain stupid and good evidence you will either not be running a team for very long or at least won't be very successful doing it. Elway can like Luck all he wants, but you don't put your future on a player who don't currently have and may not get anyway.

epicSocialism4tw
10-11-2011, 10:48 AM
If we end up in position to get Luck we should do it regardless the promise fans see in Tebow. Alot of fans think Elway will do whatever it takes to get Luck. I think different I think only way we go hard after Luck is if Tebow really struggles rest of the way. I truly believe the fans wear the pants in the Broncos org now that the overblown Tebew mania is in full force will cloud FO judgement in 12 draft. I agree fans should have some say but, not run all the major decisions shows weakness in FO imo. I think Tebow mania so overblown that if he looks decent and we go 1-15 nobody would be open to taking at QB with top pick they'd be convinced wonderboy was for sure the answer.

Tebowmania didn't bring the team back from a 16-point deficit to almost win the game on Sunday. That was Tebow.

Denver will win at least 3 more games this season and will not be in position to take Luck.

Rolandftw
10-11-2011, 10:59 AM
We could lose to Miami and then they get the tie breaker all things being equal. I don't have a terrible amount of confidence in this game. Miami owns us historically. The good news is that its October, and not the 100 degree weather we usually get there and we will probably have a lot fans rooting for Tebow. Still, with no Defensive Tackles and Tebow a work in progress, its going to be tough for sure.

If Tebow fails the rest of the way and doesn't show any improvement then I would welcome Luck being drafted. If he's good, hopefully we win ourselves out of first pick so the front office doesn't have to make that call.

Draft tiebreakers are first strength of schedule (the lower one getting the higher pick). The only team that has a higher strength of schedule then us, is Minnesota. Course that could change as we're only five weeks into the season.

Those tiebreakers helped us out a lot last year. This year, they likely will not.

TheChamp24
10-17-2011, 06:49 AM
Man, I really do think its going to come down between Miami and Indy for Luck. Its hard for me to see either team winning a game this year.

Rohirrim
10-17-2011, 07:13 AM
Polian will make absolutely sure that Indy gets Luck.

UberBroncoMan
10-17-2011, 10:09 AM
I agree with the second part for sure. I have no interest in drafting Luck. I hope we aren't even close to being in position to draft Luck. I just think watching the whole thing unravel throughout the year is going to be interesting.

Unless we finish 1-15 and the next closest is 2-14. Which means if we don't want Luck we're going to be loaded with picks via trade.

Momentum
10-17-2011, 10:35 AM
Tebowmania didn't bring the team back from a 16-point deficit to almost win the game on Sunday. That was Tebow.

Denver will win at least 3 more games this season and will not be in position to take Luck.

I'm tired of Tebow fans and these moral victories.

Keep piling up the moral victories... and we'll just draft Andrew Luck to get some real ones.

robbieopperude
10-17-2011, 12:11 PM
Pretty sure if we finish with pick 2 or 3 we might be in the Barkley sweepstakes too. Just throwing that out there.

TheChamp24
10-17-2011, 12:17 PM
Pretty sure if we finish with pick 2 or 3 we might be in the Barkley sweepstakes too. Just throwing that out there.

Barkley is this guy part 2:
http://www.thejetsblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/m_sanchez_090522_blog.jpg

Rohirrim
10-17-2011, 12:19 PM
Barkley is this guy part 2:
http://www.thejetsblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/m_sanchez_090522_blog.jpg

Not true. Barkley will have far more playing time under his belt by the time he comes out.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 12:25 PM
Pretty sure if we finish with pick 2 or 3 we might be in the Barkley sweepstakes too. Just throwing that out there.

Luck I could live with. He's probably going be pretty freakin good. Barkley? I just threw up in mouth. I'll roll with Tebow, thank you very much.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 12:26 PM
I'm tired of Tebow fans and these moral victories.

Keep piling up the moral victories... and we'll just draft Andrew Luck to get some real ones.

Yep Luck is going to lead us to so many wins without any talent around him...

oubronco
10-17-2011, 12:26 PM
We got this

myMind
10-17-2011, 12:30 PM
You suck for luck folks are pathetic. Not as people, but as fans.
Luck aint a sure thing people. I can't believe you actually WANT to lose games.
Sad.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 12:31 PM
You suck for luck folks are pathetic. Not as people, but as fans.
Luck aint a sure thing people. I can't believe you actually WANT to lose games.
Sad.

QFT.

oubronco
10-17-2011, 12:35 PM
You suck for luck folks are pathetic. Not as people, but as fans.
Luck aint a sure thing people. I can't believe you actually WANT to lose games.
Sad.

Nobody wants to lose games but the reality is they are

Rohirrim
10-17-2011, 12:36 PM
I say we go three games with Tebow and then revisit the question.

smoke4815162342
10-17-2011, 12:37 PM
Realistically, only 3-4 of the top ten picking teams based on current records have any interest in getting a starting QB from the draft. What does this mean?

Entirely disagree with this. If Luck as a highly rated prospect by team scouts as he allegedly is, those other teams will move their qb and get luck if they have the oppertunity.

robbieopperude
10-17-2011, 12:37 PM
Landry Jones from Oklahoma may also be our pick. I still think Indi will get the number 1 pick. I don't see them beating the Titans. I imagine they will be 2-14 and get Luck.
I'm not sure what Minnesota will do but I imagine Miami will take Jones or Barkley with there pick and I think if KC finishes in the top 3 they would do the same.

Agamemnon
10-17-2011, 12:39 PM
I say we go three games with Tebow and then revisit the question.

A bit premature, but less so than talking about it right now.

robbieopperude
10-17-2011, 12:39 PM
Barkley is probably a good comparison to Sanchez. If that's the case I will take Tebow.

maven
10-17-2011, 12:40 PM
Entirely disagree with this. If Luck as a highly rated prospect by team scouts as he allegedly is, those other teams will move their qb and get luck if they have the oppertunity.

A bounty of picks can rebuild an organization. It will be interesting to see who lands the #1.

WolfpackGuy
10-17-2011, 12:42 PM
A bounty of picks can rebuild an organization. It will be interesting to see who lands the #1.

In most cases, unless you let an idiot former Patriots assistant anywhere near your front office!

maven
10-17-2011, 12:43 PM
In most cases, unless you let an idiot former Patriots assistant anywhere near your front office!

ROFL!

brncs_fan
11-07-2011, 05:24 PM
So if we line them up by record we have:

1. Indy
2. Miami
3. St. Louis
4. Carolina
5. Arizona
6. Philly
7. Denver
8. Jacksonville
9. Seattle **(9-11 are in no particular order)**
10. KC
11. Cleveland


Update:

1. Indy (No change) 0-9
2. St. Louis
3. Miami
4. Seattle
5. Minnesota
6. Jacksonville
7. Carolina
8. Arizona
9. Washington
10. Denver (up 3 spots)
11. Cleveland
12. Philly

My money right now is on Indy (if they could trade Manning) or Seattle.

Requiem
11-07-2011, 05:29 PM
#10 is a perfect place to be selecting. BOSS BALLA.

robbieopperude
11-07-2011, 09:37 PM
Indi will take Luck even if they keep Manning. They will just make him sit behind Manning for 3 years and he can come in and play during all the blowouts Manning orchestrates. If I am Luck and Indi is picking 1 I think I decide to stay in college for another year or force a trade.

robbieopperude
11-07-2011, 09:41 PM
Luck I could live with. He's probably going be pretty freakin good. Barkley? I just threw up in mouth. I'll roll with Tebow, thank you very much.

I'm not sure what to think of Barkley but I do believe he is going to be the number 2 pick in the draft. I am just glad to see Denver is now down there at 10. That is a perfect spot to take a DB or MLB to help this team.

Jesterhole
11-07-2011, 09:44 PM
By the time the draft rolls around, Tim will have either proven that he is our guy, or he isn't. If he isn't, I'm all for giving whatever it takes to get a franchise QB in place. Without that, your team isn't going to do anything anyway.

I think we'll be happy with what we have, and hopefully will continue to fix the defense.

Wes Mantooth
11-07-2011, 09:51 PM
Fix the D and get a Dalton.

epicSocialism4tw
11-07-2011, 10:07 PM
Fix the D and get a Dalton.


You can't just go out and get "A Dalton". Dude might end up being the best QB out of this draft. Bengals are 6-2 and Dalton has been solid all year.

Most of those late first round/early second round QB's end up being "A Tommy Maddox" if they're lucky.

Tebow's improving. I think that QB will be secure by the end of the year.

robbieopperude
11-08-2011, 05:24 PM
The Kid from Baylor has worked himself up the draft. He might end up going between 10 and 20 thanks to the success of Cam this year. I think we now have to be worried about Denver taking him with there first pick.

BroncoMan4ever
11-08-2011, 07:55 PM
You suck for luck folks are pathetic. Not as people, but as fans.
Luck aint a sure thing people. I can't believe you actually WANT to lose games.
Sad.

thank you. everyone talks about the guy like he is a sure fire 1st ballot hall of famer. like we should just give him the ****ing jacket and mold the bust now. this is the NFL, nothing is a sure bet and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he got picked 1st overall had all the hype and fell flat on his face.

i say **** Luck. hope that Tebow improves and shows he is the real deal so we can fix the rest of this team.

BroncoMan4ever
11-08-2011, 07:56 PM
The Kid from Baylor has worked himself up the draft. He might end up going between 10 and 20 thanks to the success of Cam this year. I think we now have to be worried about Denver taking him with there first pick.

so you think that Denver would want to move away from Tebow to Griiffin a guy with the same type of skill set but smaller?

BroncoMan4ever
11-08-2011, 07:58 PM
I'm not sure what to think of Barkley but I do believe he is going to be the number 2 pick in the draft. I am just glad to see Denver is now down there at 10. That is a perfect spot to take a DB or MLB to help this team.

Barkley is probably the 2nd best QB in the draft. however due to him being on the shorter side at around 6'1" it is likely he is the 3rd QB selected, after Luck and Landry Jones

Carmelo15
11-08-2011, 08:02 PM
thank you. everyone talks about the guy like he is a sure fire 1st ballot hall of famer. like we should just give him the ****ing jacket and mold the bust now. this is the NFL, nothing is a sure bet and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he got picked 1st overall had all the hype and fell flat on his face.

i say **** Luck. hope that Tebow improves and shows he is the real deal so we can fix the rest of this team.

This

redrocket
11-11-2011, 02:57 PM
nfc alll day errr' day

pricejj
11-11-2011, 03:38 PM
Barkley is probably the 2nd best QB in the draft. however due to him being on the shorter side at around 6'1" it is likely he is the 3rd QB selected, after Luck and Landry Jones

Barkley is 6'2.1" 220 lbs.

He will be the 2nd QB taken...and probably #2 overall...he has way more value than any LT (Kalil), RB (Richardson), or DE (Coples).

Griffin is probably better than Jones.

Rohirrim
11-11-2011, 04:03 PM
If the Colts don't beat the Jags, they're going 0 and 16.