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Broncobiv
10-09-2011, 07:11 PM
Assuming Tebow is deemed the starter for the rest of the season, what does he need to work on the most in practice for the next 2 weeks, through the bye, before the Miami game? I'll start with 3 major ones off the top of my head:

1) Passing accuracy (throwing into the ground) on intermediate routes. At least 2 passes today were badly underthrown, and they weren't deep balls. Tebow actually throws a good deep ball. But he seems to throw the ball short on intermediate routes too often.

2) Looking through his progressions and finding a receiver before taking off to run. I think sometimes Tebow takes off running too early without looking for an open receiver, even if it's #3 or 4 on his progressions. I know Tebow will never be a standard pocket passer - which is totally fine. I just don't want to see him take off and run as soon as his #1 and 2 WR are covered.

3) Center/QB exchange. Self-explanatory, and I assume (no, I pray) this will take care of itself with reps in practice.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-09-2011, 07:13 PM
Center qb exchange for me. He looked good in most other aspects. That's one thy can really work on with coaching and practice reps.

Popps
10-09-2011, 07:14 PM
Throwing the football where the receivers are.

SoCalBronco
10-09-2011, 07:15 PM
Short passes to the right.

ant1999e
10-09-2011, 07:16 PM
Accuracy.

ColoradoDarin
10-09-2011, 07:16 PM
Snaps and timing with the #1s.

Beyond that, let Tebow be Tebow.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 07:17 PM
We are going to get blitzed right up the middle everytime he goes under center. I don't even recall him being as bad as he was last year as he was today. That would be number one on my list.

OABB
10-09-2011, 07:18 PM
accuracy.

rbackfactory80
10-09-2011, 07:19 PM
Getting past his first read while remaining calm in the pocket. Wish his ball didn't look like a dead duck also.

TheDave
10-09-2011, 07:20 PM
Throwing the football where the receivers are.

^... 4/10 will not work long term.

peacepipe
10-09-2011, 07:20 PM
in other words he has to work on being a threat throwing the ball. the samething that he has always had to work on.

schaaf
10-09-2011, 07:21 PM
Getting past his first read while remaining calm in the pocket. Wish his ball didn't look like a dead duck also.

I don't remember any balls that weren't spirals? They all looked good to me but on the short and intermediate passes they were a little underthrown

rbackfactory80
10-09-2011, 07:24 PM
I don't remember any balls that weren't spirals? They all looked good to me but on the short and intermediate passes they were a little underthrown

I would say you have a loose interpretation of a spiral. They weren't flopping but they sure as hell weren't pretty, judging him as a pro QB.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Toughest thing for Tebow is to incorporate the things coaches want him to change and still maintain his own style of play.

Changing your instincts so dramatically is very tough.

For example.. how do you stay in the pocket more yet still use your running ability when to it's fullest? Should he even try to be a pocket QB if his line can't protect him consistently? This is what happened preseason.

I just hope the Broncos coaches watch what Mike Shula is doing with Cam Newton. Who knows where Tebow would be now if he had Shula.

schaaf
10-09-2011, 07:26 PM
I would say you have a loose interpretation of a spiral. They weren't flopping but they sure as hell weren't pretty, judging him as a pro QB.

I agree that they weren't perfect t spirals but that Is far from a dead duck man

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 07:26 PM
in other words he has to work on being a threat throwing the ball. the samething that he has always had to work on.

Actually that didn't used to be an issue until they messed with his motion.

This is why guys like Montana, Harbough and Holmgren said he didn't even need to change it.

peacepipe
10-09-2011, 07:37 PM
Actually that didn't used to be an issue until they messed with his motion.

This is why guys like Montana, Harbough and Holmgren said he didn't even need to change it.apparently it was, he would've been the starter from the get go if it wasn't for his issues throwing the ball.

theAPAOps5
10-09-2011, 07:37 PM
Practicing better so he isn't supplanted by the practice HOF'er Orton.

Tim
10-09-2011, 07:39 PM
I just hope the Broncos coaches watch what Mike Shula is doing with Cam Newton. Who knows where Tebow would be now if he had Shula.

I've seen you post this a lot the past few weeks, and as a long time NFL/college fan I will tell you that shula isn't the reason Cam is succeeding in carolina. Take a look at what shula did at any of the places he coached before.. He didn't do anything, his biggest accomplishment is sadly probably brody croyle.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 07:40 PM
apparently it was, he would've been the starter from the get go if it wasn't for his issues throwing the ball.

Wrong.. it was clearly done for long term success. He wasn't starter because he had a guy in front of him that was supposed to be a capable vet and who is great in practice but sucks in actual games.. let's not rewrtie history to fit the BS spread in the media.

Tebow's problems were fitting in a conventional NFL offense... not his passing ability.

Changing your motion dramatically is never going to help someone short term.. under ANY circumstances.

Jetmeck
10-09-2011, 07:43 PM
^... 4/10 will not work long term.

Damn, tuff considering it was his first start this year and hasn't been practicing with the first team. for the record.....neither does 6/13 for 34 yards but we lived with it long enough. Time to move on.

huh??
10-09-2011, 07:45 PM
Assuming Tebow is deemed the starter for the rest of the season, what does he need to work on the most in practice for the next 2 weeks, through the bye, before the Miami game? I'll start with 3 major ones off the top of my head:

1) Passing accuracy (throwing into the ground) on intermediate routes. At least 2 passes today were badly underthrown, and they weren't deep balls. Tebow actually throws a good deep ball. But he seems to throw the ball short on intermediate routes too often.

2) Looking through his progressions and finding a receiver before taking off to run. I think sometimes Tebow takes off running too early without looking for an open receiver, even if it's #3 or 4 on his progressions. I know Tebow will never be a standard pocket passer - which is totally fine. I just don't want to see him take off and run as soon as his #1 and 2 WR are covered.

3) Center/QB exchange. Self-explanatory, and I assume (no, I pray) this will take care of itself with reps in practice.

I think you're wrong on #2. Watching him through preseason and what he did today, he's making a concerted effort to be a pocket passer. It's now actually degrading his run game. You can see on some of today's runs when the play called was to make a throw and he had to run, he was still looking for a receiver and didn't run "full steam" when he had no other choice.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 07:45 PM
I've seen you post this a lot the past few weeks, and as a long time NFL/college fan I will tell you that shula isn't the reason Cam is succeeding in carolina. Take a look at what shula did at any of the places he coached before.. He didn't do anything, his biggest accomplishment is sadly probably brody croyle.


He turned Garrard from a nobody into a pro bowler... and without him he got cut and Cam Newton is challenging Dan Marino's numbers.

What more do you need to see? Garrard and Cam are the closest players to Tebow in the NFL as well.

It's as simple as playing to a players strengths. Mike Shula was going to recruit Tebow and obviously has given a lot of thought to playing a player with this skill set. he was going to use Tebow in a pro style offense in college as well. So he had a vision of how to use him.

go_broncos
10-09-2011, 07:45 PM
He needs to throw short passes better.
Needs to run less..He will not be able to play full season if he keeps running often.

rugbythug
10-09-2011, 07:46 PM
Things he wont have to work on. Screens. It will be nice to have a more diverse offense.

Jetmeck
10-09-2011, 07:46 PM
in other words he has to work on being a threat throwing the ball. the samething that he has always had to work on.

Well Orton needs to work on being a threat to WIN a freakin game or two ????

WTF anyway I was at TC last year, we all watched him in preseason and real games. Sure he has to make some progress throwing more accurate but you and the media are way overstating it.

peacepipe
10-09-2011, 07:47 PM
He turned Garrard from a nobody into a pro bowler... and without him he got cut and Cam Newton is challenging Dan Marino's numbers.

What more do you need to see? Garrard and Cam are the closest players to Tebow in the NFL as well.

It's as simple as playing to a players strengths. Mike Shula was going to draft Tebow and obviously has given a lot of thought to playing a player with this skill set. he was going to use Tebow in a pro style offense in college as well. So he had a vision of how to use him.don't forget M. Vick & V. Young

gyldenlove
10-09-2011, 07:50 PM
He needs to work with the number 1s, get the center exchange and the snap count timing down and work with timing with his recievers. Throwing the ball will come if he does it enough over the next 2 weeks in practice.

We will also need to flip some plays to work with his left hand.

I was happy to see Franklin do a good job protecting the blind side, he has really made leaps and bounds as a pass blocker over the first 5 weeks.

v2micca
10-09-2011, 07:51 PM
I would like to see Tim work on setting his feet more before he throws. I don't want him to mess with anything from the waste up. A quick release is overrated. If he can learn to progress through his reads quickly, his windup will not be a major issue. But I do want him to continue to work on his lower body mechanics, which did look a little better to me. Still, I would like to see him use his athleticism to generate the space he needs, then set his feet before he throws. I think this will help with the accuracy issues he has been having on the intermediate passes.

Inkana7
10-09-2011, 07:51 PM
I mean, in 2 weeks? Getting the damn snap from Center.

How someone plays quarterback for 9+ years and sucks so bad at getting the snap is beyond me.

GreatBronco16
10-09-2011, 07:53 PM
I just hope the Broncos coaches watch what Mike Shula is doing with Cam Newton. Who knows where Tebow would be now if he had Shula.

LOL

Seriously? Shula? Mikey Shula? Hilarious!

GreatBronco16
10-09-2011, 07:54 PM
I mean, in 2 weeks? Getting the damn snap from Center.

How someone plays quarterback for 9+ years and sucks so bad at getting the snap is beyond me.

How many fumbles has Tebow lost from a Center/QB exchange?

Get back to me when you have that number.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 07:54 PM
I mean, in 2 weeks? Getting the damn snap from Center.

How someone plays quarterback for 9+ years and sucks so bad at getting the snap is beyond me.

Really? You don't get that?

Don't you realize the issue isn't the actual physical act of taking the snap right? It's reading the defense at the same time.


I think it's a matter of Tebow TRYING to hard to be perfect and win the game rather than just taking the snap and fetaling....

It's a matter of changing so many things at once and getting them right without thinking about them and still being able to react quickly and in rhythm.

TheDave
10-09-2011, 07:54 PM
Damn, tuff considering it was his first start this year and hasn't been practicing with the first team. for the record.....neither does 6/13 for 34 yards but we lived with it long enough. Time to move on.

6/13 just got benched... and so will 4/10 if it keeps up.

Thats all i said, try not to take it so personal.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 07:55 PM
Mike Shula was going to draft Tebow. Ha! A QB coach was going to draft someone. What the hell was he going to do run up the the podium and draft him without the GM or the HC's knowing what was going on?

v2micca
10-09-2011, 07:56 PM
How many fumbles has Tebow lost from a Center/QB exchange?

Get back to me when you have that number.

Don't be obtuse. Just because he didn't fumble any of the exchanges doesn't mean they didn't adversely affect the outcome of the play. Its not unreasonable to expect your quarterback to be able to make a simple snap exchange without courting disaster. However, I do think that a couple of reps with the first team will largely iron the issue out. Once Walton and Tebow had had a chance to develop a rhythm, I fully expect the problem to go away.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 07:57 PM
Mike Shula was going to draft Tebow. Ha! A QB coach was going to draft someone. What the hell was he going to do run up the the podium and draft him without the GM or the HC's knowing what was going on?

Did I say draft.. I meant recruit.. you are a child..

Or didn't you know Tebow almost went to the school Shula was head coach at in college?

Drek
10-09-2011, 07:58 PM
I mean, in 2 weeks? Getting the damn snap from Center.

How someone plays quarterback for 9+ years and sucks so bad at getting the snap is beyond me.

Cutler had issues taking the snap when he first started here if I recall. Its happened more than a few times before, especially when working with a new or young center.

Look at Dallas, they've had issues with their young center. Romo never had major issues, now its a problem at least once a game. Look at the Jets prior to this week when they were without Mangold. Like playing Russian roulette.

Tebow and Walton just need time. Lots of time. Tebow has only taken snaps from Walton for all of three weeks late last season. Besides that Walton has always been 1st string and Tebow second string.

The biggest thing in my opinion would be finding his comfort zone sooner and not taking so long into games like last season and this game to find his accuracy throwing the ball.

Two weeks of practice reps would certainly help that. But I'd also really like to see McCoy run more two TE sets to help protect him and to script a good sized handful of plays to open the game against Miami, so that they can practice them to perfection and have everyone on the same page for at least the first couple drives.

maher_tyler
10-09-2011, 08:01 PM
Assuming Tebow is deemed the starter for the rest of the season, what does he need to work on the most in practice for the next 2 weeks, through the bye, before the Miami game? I'll start with 3 major ones off the top of my head:

1) Passing accuracy (throwing into the ground) on intermediate routes. At least 2 passes today were badly underthrown, and they weren't deep balls. Tebow actually throws a good deep ball. But he seems to throw the ball short on intermediate routes too often.

2) Looking through his progressions and finding a receiver before taking off to run. I think sometimes Tebow takes off running too early without looking for an open receiver, even if it's #3 or 4 on his progressions. I know Tebow will never be a standard pocket passer - which is totally fine. I just don't want to see him take off and run as soon as his #1 and 2 WR are covered.

3) Center/QB exchange. Self-explanatory, and I assume (no, I pray) this will take care of itself with reps in practice.

I disagree with this statement. Seemed to me he stood in there as long as he could, if he stays there any longer he risks taking a sack. Looked like he worked the pocket better than Orton ever has, imo.

GreatBronco16
10-09-2011, 08:03 PM
Don't be obtuse. Just because he didn't fumble any of the exchanges doesn't mean they didn't adversely affect the outcome of the play. Its not unreasonable to expect your quarterback to be able to make a simple snap exchange without courting disaster. However, I do think that a couple of reps with the first team will largely iron the issue out. Once Walton and Tebow had had a chance to develop a rhythm, I fully expect the problem to go away.

Obtuse? I'm sorry, my response was to a post saying that "he sucks so bad" at a center/qb exchange. If he sucks so bad, then he should have a bunch of fumbles/lost fumbles.

GreatBronco16
10-09-2011, 08:05 PM
Did I say draft.. I meant recruit.. you are a child..

Or didn't you know Tebow almost went to the school Shula was head coach at in college?

He didn't allmost go to Bama anymore than he allmost went to Vandy. And if by some miricle he would have choosen Bama, then Shula would have ruined him for the short time he was there.

Broncobiv
10-09-2011, 08:06 PM
I think you're wrong on #2. Watching him through preseason and what he did today, he's making a concerted effort to be a pocket passer. It's now actually degrading his run game. You can see on some of today's runs when the play called was to make a throw and he had to run, he was still looking for a receiver and didn't run "full steam" when he had no other choice.
I disagree with this statement. Seemed to me he stood in there as long as he could, if he stays there any longer he risks taking a sack. Looked like he worked the pocket better than Orton ever has, imo.
He wasn't too bad today. I think he took off and ran on one play too early. But it might have been because he saw daylight and KNEW he could get the first down.

But I remember thinking this during the preseason as well. Multiple times this preseason I thought he took off too early. Even if it was for a positive gain, it frustrated me because I know he has to try and find that open receiver first.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 08:07 PM
I think the center exchange issue is a great example of Tebow being under a microscope and the issue getting overblown.. not only perception wise but probably with Tebow's actual play too. It's part of being one of the most popular, scrutinized and unique players in sports history.

v2micca
10-09-2011, 08:08 PM
Obtuse? I'm sorry, my response was to a post saying that "he sucks so bad" at a center/qb exchange. If he sucks so bad, then he should have a bunch of fumbles/lost fumbles.

Well, based on tonight's data, he did suck at the center/qb exchange. Its a legitimate area to improve upon. And, as long as he does, it won't be an issue.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 08:09 PM
He didn't allmost go to Bama anymore than he allmost went to Vandy. And if by some miricle he would have choosen Bama, then Shula would have ruined him for the short time he was there.

Bama was his only other choice and in his book he almost accepted. You are nuts to argue that. Tebow was going to go to Bama before Florida started getting successful with Meyer there.

If Tebow can carry guys like Fox, Studesville he could certainly carry a guy who was a freakin QB.. lol

Broncobiv
10-09-2011, 08:10 PM
I think the center exchange issue is a great example of Tebow being under a microscope and the issue getting overblown.. not only perception wise but probably with Tebow's actual play too. It's part of being one of the most popular, scrutinized and unique players in sports history.
How many times did Orton have trouble with the center/QB exchange? None? Once per season? I don't remember any...

Fumbling the exchange is a glaring problem, no matter who the QB is (from Tebow to Aaron Rodgers to Charlie Batch). If it exists, it needs to be addressed. Starting QB's, with ample time to practice with the starting center, should never have a problem with the exchange. That's why I hope it will get ironed out over the next 2 weeks.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 08:16 PM
How many times did Orton have trouble with the center/QB exchange? None? Once per season? I don't remember any...

Fumbling the exchange is a glaring problem, no matter who the QB is (from Tebow to Aaron Rodgers to Charlie Batch). If it exists, it needs to be addressed. Starting QB's, with ample time to practice with the starting center, should never have a problem with the exchange. That's why I hope it will get ironed out over the next 2 weeks.

I could have sworn Orton fumbled a snap just recently.. that is what I am talking about though.. we notice it with Tebow because EVERYONE is looking for it.. like ANY of Tebow's weaknesses.. yet Orton's weaknesses and mistakes are ignored as just bad luck or flukes..

It's all about perception.. Tebow does things in his own way.. so people assume he is a raw poor QB.. most guys do things exactly as they have been trained their whole lives and people can't figure out why they aren't successful

I think it's really part of the problem with how Qbs are developed and evaluated.

It's like trying to coach someone to do something that ca't really be coached..

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 08:16 PM
He didn't allmost go to Bama anymore than he allmost went to Vandy. And if by some miricle he would have choosen Bama, then Shula would have ruined him for the short time he was there.

He almost picked USC, Michigan, and LSU too.

GreatBronco16
10-09-2011, 08:17 PM
Tebow was going to go to Bama before Florida started getting successful with Meyer there.

Did Tebow say that in his book aswell?


Look, as an Alabama fan for 35 years, I can tell you that none of us Bama fans had any belief that Tebow was coming here. The type of person that Tebow is, I would not expect him to say that he never thought about coming to Bama.

Now get over it.

GreatBronco16
10-09-2011, 08:19 PM
Well, based on tonight's data, he did suck at the center/qb exchange. Its a legitimate area to improve upon. And, as long as he does, it won't be an issue.

I'm not saying that he has a minor problem with it. But when he NEVER gets to work with the starting center, this is a problem you should expect to be there.

He didn't have this problem with the backup center during the preseason, why???? Because that was who he has worked with up to this point.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:20 PM
Tebow has a **** ton to work on. Just give him the chance the rest of the season.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:21 PM
But when he NEVER gets to work with the starting center, this is a problem you should expect to be there.


Taking snaps under center isn't the problem. He just haven't worked with him. This will be ironed out quickly.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 08:24 PM
Did Tebow say that in his book aswell?


Look, as an Alabama fan for 35 years, I can tell you that none of us Bama fans had any belief that Tebow was coming here. The type of person that Tebow is, I would not expect him to say that he never thought about coming to Bama.

Now get over it.

It sounds like YOU need to get over it.. lol

Don't you get it.. Tebow KNEW he would be going through all this.. this is WHY he had such a tough decision to make between Florida and Alabama...

Because Bama was going to use him in a pro style offense which would have prepared him for the NFL. He could have avoided all this nonsense about not being a pro QB. He knew he had to learn this as well since he didn't play it in high school and wasn't a prima donna QB prospect in high school getting the best training.

Also he could have started immediately at Bama rather than wait a year behind Leak at UF. He didn't even know for sure Meyer was serious about using him as a QB.

This is why the whole thing was such a tough decision.. the chance for immediate success in college with Meyer or NFL success with Shula..

NFLBRONCO
10-09-2011, 08:24 PM
What Tebow needs to do

1. Win games

Having him play will be more entertaining vs Orton I buy that already.

My biggest fear I have about Tebow is the total glassy eyed feeling alot of fans have about him. Even if he hardly wins fans will be satisfied enough because he's betten then Orton that they will want anything other then QB with top pick. If fanbase is satisfied will FO fold and not take QB just to appaise fans.

What will satisfy you enough from Tebow that you wouldn't want Luck or Landry? What if we go 2-14?

schaaf
10-09-2011, 08:24 PM
Don't be obtuse. Just because he didn't fumble any of the exchanges doesn't mean they didn't adversely affect the outcome of the play. Its not unreasonable to expect your quarterback to be able to make a simple snap exchange without courting disaster. However, I do think that a couple of reps with the first team will largely iron the issue out. Once Walton and Tebow had had a chance to develop a rhythm, I fully expect the problem to go away.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/definitions/images/obtuse-angle.gif

Roasted Bitch.

maven
10-09-2011, 08:27 PM
What Tebow needs to do

1. Win games

Having him play will be more entertaining vs Orton I buy that already.

My biggest fear I have about Tebow is the total glassy eyed feeling alot of fans have about him. Even if he hardly wins fans will be satisfied enough because he's betten then Orton that they will want anything other then QB with top pick. If fanbase is satisfied will FO fold and not take QB just to appaise fans.

There's really only 1 QB to take in the upcoming draft. It all depends on how the season plays out and who ends up where.

Paladin
10-09-2011, 08:27 PM
With the exception of the ONE screen, TT had no passing game. That is what he will have to work on. Going through progressions and learning how to take snaps from Center. He will not be able to just run when other teams stick a spy on him and they put 8 in the box. Exciting play today? yes! Winner? That remains to be seen, but best guess for me is, no.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-09-2011, 08:27 PM
His fetal position and inexplicable bed shiatting. Big shoes to fill.

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 08:30 PM
I disagree with this statement. Seemed to me he stood in there as long as he could, if he stays there any longer he risks taking a sack. Looked like he worked the pocket better than Orton ever has, imo.

Definitely. If anything he was consciously forcing himself to stay and look for an open guy. He took it to the limit.

snowspot66
10-09-2011, 08:32 PM
How many times did Orton have trouble with the center/QB exchange? None? Once per season? I don't remember any...

Fumbling the exchange is a glaring problem, no matter who the QB is (from Tebow to Aaron Rodgers to Charlie Batch). If it exists, it needs to be addressed. Starting QB's, with ample time to practice with the starting center, should never have a problem with the exchange. That's why I hope it will get ironed out over the next 2 weeks.

It's an extremely COMMON problem with young QB's working with a center they don't have a lot of time with. All young QB's have this issue.

schaaf
10-09-2011, 08:32 PM
With the exception of the ONE screen, TT had no passing game. That is what he will have to work on. Going through progressions and learning how to take snaps from Center. He will not be able to just run when other teams stick a spy on him and they put 8 in the box. Exciting play today? yes! Winner? That remains to be seen, but best guess for me is, no.

no passing game? that pass to Fells to the thirty yard line was perfect. he had two passes to lloyd that were put in the perfect spot so that only lloyd could get them and lloyd came down with both but only one in bounds, Tebow had that throw to Decker which was a nice throw just a little too far. and he had two or three that were good just a little too low.

That doesn't constitute "no passing game"... That no passing game still gave him a 104 quarterback rating.

Inkana7
10-09-2011, 08:33 PM
I'm not saying that he has a minor problem with it. But when he NEVER gets to work with the starting center, this is a problem you should expect to be there.

He didn't have this problem with the backup center during the preseason, why???? Because that was who he has worked with up to this point.

He had troubles taking the snap from Center in preseason too. He's just not good at it.

You people make it sound like we're accusing Tebow of genocide or something.

Inkana7
10-09-2011, 08:34 PM
no passing game? that pass to Fells to the thirty yard line was perfect. he had two passes to lloyd that were put in the perfect spot so that only lloyd could get them and lloyd came down with both but only one in bounds, Tebow had that throw to Decker which was a nice throw just a little too far. and he had two or three that were good just a little too low.

That doesn't constitute "no passing game"... That no passing game still gave him a 104 quarterback rating.

Those passes were against prevent. You can't knock Orton for something and then praise Tebow for doing the same thing.

Paladin
10-09-2011, 08:34 PM
How many were completed? That's a pi$$ poor passing game.....

I also have questions whether McCoy can devise a game plan that TT could do.

ghwk
10-09-2011, 08:34 PM
I could have sworn Orton fumbled a snap just recently.. that is what I am talking about though.. we notice it with Tebow because EVERYONE is looking for it.. like ANY of Tebow's weaknesses.. yet Orton's weaknesses and mistakes are ignored as just bad luck or flukes..

It's all about perception.. Tebow does things in his own way.. so people assume he is a raw poor QB.. most guys do things exactly as they have been trained their whole lives and people can't figure out why they aren't successful

I think it's really part of the problem with how Qbs are developed and evaluated.

It's like trying to coach someone to do something that ca't really be coached..

Just how big a tard are you? Ortons mistakes that you say are ignored got him a billboard and railroaded out of town. God I just want to barf whenever I see one of your posts.

Paladin
10-09-2011, 08:35 PM
Those passes were against prevent. You can't knock Orton for something and then praise Tebow for doing the same thing.

Those with blinders can.....

ward63
10-09-2011, 08:38 PM
His footwork imo is his #1 thing to work on. When he throws, it seems to me that he is fading away and not stepping into it. Even if there isn't anybody in his face. The pass to Rosario was a little on Tebow and Rosario. If Tebow steps into it, its a completion, but Rosario could have came back and caught it. All in all, Tebow got thrown into the fire and was told...good luck kid! Give him two weeks to prepare for the Dolphins (which I hope we KILL) and work on his mechanics. Everything will get better going forward.

Kind of off topic, but...I wouldn't be against having Luck, but I really want Tebow to work. Plus our run defense NEEDS, NEEEEEEDS a dominant DT.

extralife
10-09-2011, 08:39 PM
You can't knock Orton for something and then praise Tebow for doing the same thing.

get ready for a lot more of that.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 08:41 PM
Just how big a tard are you? Ortons mistakes that you say are ignored got him a billboard and railroaded out of town. God I just want to barf whenever I see one of your posts.

I see Tebow getting criticized yet he did things as a rookie with ZERO prep that Orton couldn't do as a season vet with ALL the prep..

Also.. another big thing that people are forgetting is that opposing teams KNOW Tebow si a rookie with massive pressur eon him and inexperienced playing in a pro style offense..

You think this might be why teams are trying to jump him and why he might have an issue?

This is what I am talking about with people looking at the wrong things and not putting them in context. Since Tebow came in the league he has had one of the biggest bullseyes on him.. whether it's preseason regular season you name it. And he has still dominated at times and people whine that he doesn't hand off pretty enough or his balls flutter.. or he runs too much NO FAIR... LOL It's a JOKE.

And my posts make you sick? lol

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 08:46 PM
It's funny how people are trashing Tebow's completion percentage yet ignoring his YPA -

7.9 to 2.6 for Orton.

This are the kinds of things people ignore. I suspect the same thing is happening in practice. What looks prettier isn't always more effective.

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 08:47 PM
^... 4/10 will not work long term.

Oh for **** sake, dude. You are pathetic.

OABB
10-09-2011, 08:47 PM
get ready for a lot more of that.

4 starts.....vs 7 YEARS....


idiots.

extralife
10-09-2011, 08:47 PM
I see Tebow getting criticized yet he did things as a rookie with ZERO prep that Orton couldn't do as a season vet with ALL the prep..

Also.. another big thing that people are forgetting is that opposing teams KNOW Tebow si a rookie with massive pressur eon him and inexperienced playing in a pro style offense..

You think this might be why teams are trying to jump him and why he might have an issue?

This is what I am talking about with people looking at the wrong things and not putting them in context. Since Tebow came in the league he has had one of the biggest bullseyes on him.. whether it's preseason regular season you name it. And he has still dominated at times and people whine that he doesn't hand off pretty enough or his balls flutter.. or he runs too much NO FAIR... LOL It's a JOKE.

And my posts make you sick? lol

So your argument is that the main problem here is that there is another team on the field that is, for some reason, attempting to stop Tebow from winning. That's interesting.

TheDave
10-09-2011, 08:47 PM
Oh for **** sake, dude. You are pathetic.

Prove me wrong, but while you are at it... relax

You running around freaking out everytime i do not properly worship the kid is getting really odd.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 08:50 PM
Prove me wrong
Greise, Plummer, Cutler, and Orton all agree with you.

enjolras
10-09-2011, 08:52 PM
For me Tebow needs to work on getting into the flow of the game much more quickly. When the competitive juices gets flowing, his motion gets better and the quality of this passes improves (that strike down the middle of the field on the last drive was a great throw). It seems to me that's been a pattern. It always takes him several possessions to settle down and get going.

I'm really hoping that over the next 10 games we'll see him settle in and learn to start more like he finishes.

Beyond that, as others have said, footwork still needs a huge amount of work. I think that's the issue with the center exchange, he's tripping over himself as he tries to get away which makes it harder to secure the ball. Again, experience and reps are his best chance to fix that.

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 08:52 PM
get ready for a lot more of that.

Most of us know enough to give the guy with 4 starts a bit more leeway than the 7 year vet. God the stupidity around is astounding.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 08:54 PM
There are very few things he doesn't need to improve. He's a young, inexperienced player. This topic seems kind of dumb to me.

OABB
10-09-2011, 08:54 PM
Most of us know enough to give the guy with 4 starts a bit more leeway than the 7 year vet. God the stupidity around is astounding.

im really at my end....Its scary...idiots.

extralife
10-09-2011, 08:55 PM
Most of us know enough to give the guy with 4 starts a bit more leeway than the 7 year vet. God the stupidity around is astounding.

that hasn't been the stumping point here, see. the argument has been that "Tebow gives us the best chance to win." The second he has a bad game, it will change to what you're spouting, of course. But let's not kid ourselves--there is nothing reasonable Orton could have done to save his job, and there is nothing reasonable Tebow could do to draw substantial criticism from the fans.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 08:55 PM
So your argument is that the main problem here is that there is another team on the field that is, for some reason, attempting to stop Tebow from winning. That's interesting.

No.. my problem is that Tebow has a huge magnifying glass on him.. all through college like no other player.. he has more pressure and has had NO prep.. King Neckbeard has hogged all the prep time since Tebow has been there. He didn't even have OTAs..

Add to that his huge popularity.. all the pressure.. and people are wondering why he isn't PERFECT? LOL

It's ludicrous.. Teams know his weaknesses because he is so high profile and GREAT.. the only way he is going to improve is by playing..

When you put it in context that he has played so well even with all this it is amazing.. not a negative as people want to jump to conclusions..

UberBroncoMan
10-09-2011, 08:56 PM
Greise, Plummer, Cutler, and Orton all agree with you.

Side note.

Orton is our only main starting QB since Elway to NOT make the Pro Bowl.

As for the question.

The answer is EVERYTHING. You can't just chose one...and if you do, it's going to be the one that obviously matters the most, which is being able to get the ball to your receivers.

Broncobiv
10-09-2011, 08:57 PM
There are very few things he doesn't need to improve. He's a young, inexperienced player. This topic seems kind of dumb to me.

No kidding. That is why I put the words "the most" in the thread title. As in, What does Tebow have to work on the most over the next 2 weeks?

Just trying to get an idea of what you guys think Tebow really needs to focus hard on to be as successful as possible this season.

OABB
10-09-2011, 08:58 PM
that hasn't been the stumping point here, see. the argument has been that "Tebow gives us the best chance to win." The second he has a bad game, it will change to what you're spouting, of course. But let's not kid ourselves--there is nothing reasonable Orton could have done to save his job, and there is nothing reasonable Tebow could do to draw substantial criticism from the fans.

not suck....and not be awesome.....

TheDave
10-09-2011, 08:58 PM
No kidding. That is why I put the words "the most" in the thread title. As in, What does Tebow have to work on the most over the next 2 weeks?

Just trying to get an idea of what you guys think Tebow really needs to focus hard on to be as successful as possible this season.

Suggesting Tebow has areas where he needs to improve really rubs some people the wrong way...

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 08:59 PM
Side note.

Orton is our only main starting QB since Elway to NOT make the Pro Bowl.

Well he was on pace for over 5000 yards a couple of times in his career here. Ha!

maven
10-09-2011, 09:00 PM
There are very few things he doesn't need to improve. He's a young, inexperienced player. This topic seems kind of dumb to me.

I laughed

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 09:01 PM
im really at my end....Its scary...idiots.

I know. I don't know why I waste my time here. Just glad that it looks like Tebow is finally here to stay. FINALLY.

My thoughts now are how pissed I will feel if this teams closes out the season 8-3 to finish at 9-7 and just out of the playoffs. The fact that it took so long to make the change is mind blowing.

Even if we still finish with 3 or 4 wins and Tebow blows, at least we will know what we have. But one thing is for sure, the dude will never give up.

Tombstone RJ
10-09-2011, 09:03 PM
that hasn't been the stumping point here, see. the argument has been that "Tebow gives us the best chance to win." The second he has a bad game, it will change to what you're spouting, of course. But let's not kid ourselves--there is nothing reasonable Orton could have done to save his job, and there is nothing reasonable Tebow could do to draw substantial criticism from the fans.

and there's nothing reasonable in your post... so you go that going for you.

UberBroncoMan
10-09-2011, 09:03 PM
that hasn't been the stumping point here, see. the argument has been that "Tebow gives us the best chance to win." The second he has a bad game, it will change to what you're spouting, of course. But let's not kid ourselves--there is nothing reasonable Orton could have done to save his job, and there is nothing reasonable Tebow could do to draw substantial criticism from the fans.

If Orton had a +62% completion, 1.2k + yards, 12+ TD's and 2-4 INT's or something similar...I very much doubt people would be viewing him as a problem. I also doubt we'd be 1-4.

Hell a 90+ QBR would be nice.

8 TD's and 7 INT's on top of sub 60% completion and 2 lost fumbles on the other hand. 1-4 makes sense and it's clear he can't handle the pressure of starting with Tebow on his ass. 75.7 QBR after 5 games...yuck.

Orton is playing his worst football since his Rookie/3rd year.

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 09:03 PM
that hasn't been the stumping point here, see. the argument has been that "Tebow gives us the best chance to win." The second he has a bad game, it will change to what you're spouting, of course. But let's not kid ourselves--there is nothing reasonable Orton could have done to save his job, and there is nothing reasonable Tebow could do to draw substantial criticism from the fans.

If Tebow goes 6-21, I will get on his case, cool?

Broncobiv
10-09-2011, 09:04 PM
There are very few things he doesn't need to improve. He's a young, inexperienced player. This topic seems kind of dumb to me.

I laughed

Come on now, I've got a rock-hard, full-force Tebowner, but even I can realistically admit he has a lot of things to work on (some more than others). I mean jeez, he only has 3 starts in the NFL. Of course there are very few things that he does not need to improve!

extralife
10-09-2011, 09:07 PM
If Orton had a +62% completion, 1.2k + yards, 12+ TD's and 2-4 INT's or something similar...I very much doubt people would be viewing him as a problem. I also doubt we'd be 1-4.

Hell a 90+ QBR would be nice.

8 TD's and 7 INT's on top of sub 60% completion and 2 lost fumbles on the other hand. 1-4 makes sense and it's clear he can't handle the pressure of starting with Tebow on his ass. 75.7 QBR after 5 games...yuck.

Orton is playing his worst football since his Rookie/3rd year.

I think we would have to be 4-1 at the very least at this point to have made the Tebow Thing go away. And I also think this team does not have anywhere near the talent necessary to be 4-1. Take away the admittedly terrible fumble against Oakland, the **** throw against Woodson, and the pick today, and Orton has been decent. I agree that decent + those three plays is probably enough to have earned the benching at this point, for this team, in this situation, but this state is full of apparent QB experts spouting loads and loads of bull**** about every throw Orton makes (or every not throw he doesn't make, or every sack he takes, or every sack he <i>doesn't</i> take, etc.), over and over, simply because they saw Tebow on sportscenter when he played for Florida. That's about the long and short of it, as far as I'm concerned.

OABB
10-09-2011, 09:07 PM
Come on now, I've got a rock-hard, full-force Tebowner, but even I can realistically admit he has a lot of things to work on (some more than others). I mean jeez, he only has 3 starts in the NFL. Of course there are very few things that he does not need to improve!

i think you guys read that wrong...hes.saying tebow has a lot to work on.

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 09:08 PM
Of course he has things to work on. It's the intangibles that he brings that will get him thru until the finer points of his game are refined.

maven
10-09-2011, 09:08 PM
Come on now, I've got a rock-hard, full-force Tebowner, but even I can realistically admit he has a lot of things to work on (some more than others). I mean jeez, he only has 3 starts in the NFL. Of course there are very few things that he does not need to improve!

Hopefully the Broncos give him the rest of the season to see what he can do.

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 09:08 PM
i think you guys read that wrong...hes.saying tebow has a lot to work on.

Reading comprehension.

OABB
10-09-2011, 09:09 PM
I think we would have to be 4-1 at the very least at this point to have made the Tebow Thing go away. And I also think this team does not have anywhere near the talent necessary to be 4-1. Take away the admittedly terrible fumble against Oakland, the **** throw against Woodson, and the pick today, and Orton has been decent. I agree that decent + those three plays is probably enough to have earned the benching at this point, for this team, in this situation, but this state is full of apparent QB experts spouting loads and loads of bull**** about every throw Orton makes, over and over, simply because they saw Tebow on sportscenter when he played for Florida. That's about the long and short of it, as far as I'm concerned.

dumbest post ever?


dumbest post ever.

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 09:11 PM
I think we would have to be 4-1 at the very least at this point to have made the Tebow Thing go away. And I also think this team does not have anywhere near the talent necessary to be 4-1. Take away the admittedly terrible fumble against Oakland, the **** throw against Woodson, and the pick today, and Orton has been decent. I agree that decent + those three plays is probably enough to have earned the benching at this point, for this team, in this situation, but this state is full of apparent QB experts spouting loads and loads of bull**** about every throw Orton makes (or every not throw he doesn't make, or every sack he takes, or every sack he <i>doesn't</i> take, etc.), over and over, simply because they saw Tebow on sportscenter when he played for Florida. That's about the long and short of it, as far as I'm concerned.

Give it up. Orton led offense does not score points. Period. And that is the name of the game.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:11 PM
No kidding. That is why I put the words "the most" in the thread title. As in, What does Tebow have to work on the most over the next 2 weeks?

Just trying to get an idea of what you guys think Tebow really needs to focus hard on to be as successful as possible this season.

Just getting 1st team reps would help a lot. I think people often forget that the guy has gotten to work with the 1st team all of three weeks in his short career. That hasn't done him any favors. A lot of the problems he had early on seemed to be clearly coming from being rusty and lacking timing with the receivers. He just needs time to develop. He isn't going to fix any of his problems in two weeks, but I think he'll improve a bit against Miami. Assuming Fox doesn't decide to **** us all over and make us watch Orton again that is.

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 09:12 PM
dumbest post ever?


dumbest post ever.

What kind of fool is still on here carrying a torch for Orton? Must be a joke. For his sake, I hope it is.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:13 PM
i think you guys read that wrong...hes.saying tebow has a lot to work on.

Seriously. WTF? Hilarious!

Maximus
10-09-2011, 09:15 PM
I don't want him to mess with anything from the waste up. A quick release is overrated. If he can learn to progress through his reads quickly, his windup will not be a major issue.

Get real man a slow release will have a QB sitting on the bench playing hide the Gatorade! Corners in this league average running a 40 in about 4.3 - 4.4
that is 9.3 yards per second. The slower the release the longer a CB has to close the distance on a WR. Compound a slow release with poor foot work and you have CB's jumping routes etc. Tebow has low velocity on his throw too. Soooo....

cutthemdown
10-09-2011, 09:18 PM
Tebow has to work at getting the ball under center, faking a hand off, dropping back, then throwing, or scrambling if there is no wr open. He cant just be in shotgun all the time.

OABB
10-09-2011, 09:19 PM
Get real man a slow release will have a QB sitting on the bench playing hide the Gatorade! Corners in this league average running a 40 in about 4.3 - 4.4
that is 9.3 yards per second. The slower the release the longer a CB has to close the distance on a WR. Compound a slow release with poor foot work and you have CB's jumping routes etc. Tebow has low velocity on his throw too. Soooo....

still rather face tebow huh?

idiots.


i cant take the stupidity.....


im out for a while....

tebow 3:16

UberBroncoMan
10-09-2011, 09:19 PM
I think we would have to be 4-1 at the very least at this point to have made the Tebow Thing go away. And I also think this team does not have anywhere near the talent necessary to be 4-1. Take away the admittedly terrible fumble against Oakland, the **** throw against Woodson, and the pick today, and Orton has been decent. I agree that decent + those three plays is probably enough to have earned the benching at this point, for this team, in this situation, but this state is full of apparent QB experts spouting loads and loads of bull**** about every throw Orton makes (or every not throw he doesn't make, or every sack he takes, or every sack he <i>doesn't</i> take, etc.), over and over, simply because they saw Tebow on sportscenter when he played for Florida. That's about the long and short of it, as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry dude, but he hasn't been impressive. Even if you completely ignore the W/L, the stats say otherwise. Like I said. He's playing as bad as a rookie right now. That doesn't win games. Shoulda coulda bull**** doesn't fly. What if Tebow hit Decker in stride? What if DJ didn't get penalized and we had 40 more seconds at the end of the game? What if we converted the two point conversion? What if's don't do ****. Orton has played horrid, and this is the result of his play. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately business...especially when it comes to veterans.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:20 PM
Get real man a slow release will have a QB sitting on the bench playing hide the Gatorade! Corners in this league average running a 40 in about 4.3 - 4.4
that is 9.3 yards per second. The slower the release the longer a CB has to close the distance on a WR. Compound a slow release with poor foot work and you have CB's jumping routes etc. Tebow has low velocity on his throw too. Soooo....

I can't take any more of your idiocy. God I hate Raiders fans...

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 09:23 PM
still rather face tebow huh?

idiots.


i cant take the stupidity.....


im out for a while....

tebow 3:16

The board will mourn for you.

broncocalijohn
10-09-2011, 09:24 PM
Throwing the football where the receivers are.

According to some, that would be wrong. The receivers should either be on his knees or expect the ball a yard short and low.

He fixes this problem and his game is vastly improved. Many times he had a ton of time to find a receiver so I hope he can feel comfortable with mega time and know that he doesnt have to look at one receiver and then decide his next option is the run. Know that a 10 yard pass is easier than trying to get a ten yard run. We already know he has the confidence.

OABB
10-09-2011, 09:25 PM
The board will morn for you.

but will it mourn?

broncocalijohn
10-09-2011, 09:28 PM
There are very few things he doesn't need to improve. He's a young, inexperienced player. This topic seems kind of dumb to me.

Yet you were able to name one of them (inexperience) in a very short post. Why would you consider this topic dumb? Besides MacGruder and some others (don't worry, I wont name you in that group), he has some flaws that need to improve. Discussing them is dumb? Would that be because you don't want to hear them or there are only a few as you stated and no need to bring it up for discussion?

Edit: Rereading of your post, I might think you agree he has issues more than a few, correct? If so, why would it be not worthy of discussion? He has 2 weeks to correct some, what are the most important? That is what Biv wants us to discuss.

DarkHorse
10-09-2011, 09:29 PM
Would like him to work on center exchange and setting his feet when he throws.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 09:30 PM
but will it mourn?

I corrected myself and I doubt you leave. Just another baby crying on a message board but, if you do leave please type a really long goodbye thread Ha!

MplsBronco
10-09-2011, 09:32 PM
Yet you were able to name one of them (inexperience) in a very short post. Why would you consider this topic dumb? Besides MacGruder and some others (don't worry, I wont name you in that group), he has some flaws that need to improve. Discussing them is dumb? Would that be because you don't want to hear them or there are only a few as you stated and no need to bring it up for discussion?

Learn to comprehend.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 09:33 PM
Yet you were able to name one of them (inexperience) in a very short post. Why would you consider this topic dumb? Besides MacGruder and some others (don't worry, I wont name you in that group), he has some flaws that need to improve. Discussing them is dumb? Would that be because you don't want to hear them or there are only a few as you stated and no need to bring it up for discussion?

No the dumb thing is the way the question is phrased. What does he need to work on most over the next 2 weeks? Err...being an NFL quarterback? Aside from running it and avoiding the pass rush, the guy needs to work on everything, and two weeks isn't going to fix any of his shortcomings. There's just this instant gratification mentality surrounding Tebow that is honestly getting on my nerves.

Maximus
10-09-2011, 09:33 PM
I can't take any more of your idiocy. God I hate Raiders fans...

What you can't take is the truth moron! Bring the hero on... I've been waiting for this ****!

Maximus
10-09-2011, 09:34 PM
still rather face tebow huh?

idiots.


i cant take the stupidity.....


im out for a while....

tebow 3:16

4/10 **** passes and a loss... I'll take it dimwit!

Momentum
10-09-2011, 09:36 PM
Tebow is awful. The only thing he is good at is running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. If this team does not get Andrew Luck the Tebow/McDaniels eras will haunt us for a long time.

broncocalijohn
10-09-2011, 09:37 PM
No the dumb thing is the way the question is phrased. What does he need to work on most over the next 2 weeks? Err...being an NFL quarterback? Aside from running it and avoiding the pass rush, the guy needs to work on everything, and two weeks isn't going to fix any of his shortcomings. There's just this instant gratification mentality surrounding Tebow that is honestly getting on my nerves.

Ugh, I editted it as you were posting this. As for instant gratification, I wholly agree. I also think the excuses people come up with is sickening too. He is going to make mistakes and he is far from perfect. I don't mind the Tebow Nuts ecstatic right now for him being in the game but I just wish they would also be honest and not make an excuse when he throws a bad ball to Rosario or Willis and put the blame on those receivers. If they are going to rip on Orton for an exact type of throw, then they need to not make excuses for Tebow and call him out on it. Their opinion would be more believable and accepted when they speak of Tebow. If not, I put them in the same catagory as MacGruber.

maven
10-09-2011, 09:38 PM
It will help Tebow a lot if the team commits to him the rest of the season.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 09:52 PM
If they are going to rip on Orton for an exact type of throw, then they need to not make excuses for Tebow and call him out on it. Their opinion would be more believable and accepted when they speak of Tebow. If not, I put them in the same catagory as MacGruber.

Uh no.. you are comparing a rookie with abilities Orton can't even dream of with a guy who is a seasoned vet who plays worse than a rookie.

Orton is so atrocious athletically that combined with his weak passing he doesn't even belong on a football field.

If Orton had great passing ability it could offset his atrocious athleticism.. but he doesn't.

schaaf
10-09-2011, 09:53 PM
Those passes were against prevent. You can't knock Orton for something and then praise Tebow for doing the same thing.

Sorry if I expect more from my 7 year veteran, captain quarterback... You're right I should have the exact same expectations for Tebow as I should for Orton. That would be okay if I did because, like I said that no passing game gave tebow a 104 qbr compared to Ortons 24?

GreatBronco16
10-09-2011, 10:01 PM
It sounds like YOU need to get over it.. lol

Don't you get it.. Tebow KNEW he would be going through all this.. this is WHY he had such a tough decision to make between Florida and Alabama...

Because Bama was going to use him in a pro style offense which would have prepared him for the NFL. He could have avoided all this nonsense about not being a pro QB. He knew he had to learn this as well since he didn't play it in high school and wasn't a prima donna QB prospect in high school getting the best training.

Also he could have started immediately at Bama rather than wait a year behind Leak at UF. He didn't even know for sure Meyer was serious about using him as a QB.

This is why the whole thing was such a tough decision.. the chance for immediate success in college with Meyer or NFL success with Shula..


All I can say is wow. You act like you've spoken to him personally to get all this information.

Also, your post is pretty much saying that Tebow choose college success over long term NFL success.

But no really, you need to get over it. You are not about to tell an Alabama fan, who lives in the state where Bama football is played, that Tebow nearly picked Bama to play at. I was here, I was around all the talk. It was never going to happen.

So yeah, let go of the Tebow nut hair, and get over it.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 10:02 PM
Ugh, I editted it as you were posting this. As for instant gratification, I wholly agree. I also think the excuses people come up with is sickening too. He is going to make mistakes and he is far from perfect. I don't mind the Tebow Nuts ecstatic right now for him being in the game but I just wish they would also be honest and not make an excuse when he throws a bad ball to Rosario or Willis and put the blame on those receivers. If they are going to rip on Orton for an exact type of throw, then they need to not make excuses for Tebow and call him out on it. Their opinion would be more believable and accepted when they speak of Tebow. If not, I put them in the same catagory as MacGruber.

The problem is that we really need to stop judging Tebow (or anyone) off of a few bad plays. Orton was judged over the span of 2+ years. Tebow deserves the same. At minimum he deserves a solid season's worth of starts before people judge his game. The guy is virtually still a rookie. He threw some bad passes today. That's what young, inexperienced QBs do. Elway did it on levels that would cause fits on these boards if he was playing now. The lack of patience is the thing that is starting to really bug me. Let the guy play. If in a couple years he's still short-hopping it to receivers or has happy feet in the pocket, move on. Franchise QBs are not made over night.

Broncobiv
10-09-2011, 10:06 PM
4/10 **** passes and a loss... I'll take it dimwit!
Mock?

ScottXray
10-09-2011, 10:07 PM
6/13 just got benched... and so will 4/10 if it keeps up.

Thats all i said, try not to take it so personal.

Lloyd dropped passes from Tebow and Orton today that although somewhat difficult to handle were essentially in his hands.

The killer was the second 2 pointer...Lloyd had it in his hands and couldn't hold it when the DB hit his arms.

Overall Tebow seems to start out every game, I've seen, somewhat erratic and nervous. As he plays he seems to warm up and get better in accuracy and settle down.

He plays best from the shotgun and maybe they should give him more shotgun snaps early in games to get him quieted down.

Frankly, he almost pulled this game out today, and he is going to get better as he should now get the reps that he hasn't been with the first string.

and Center QB exchanges aren't just his problem. Most teams have some trouble when a new QB comes in, and practice ( again) should straighten that out.

The problem is whether Fox still thinks that Orton is the "starter" after actually seeing the teams entire demeanor and dynamic change with TT at QB. He lifts both the O and D.

Hopefully TT starts the rest of the way and we find out what hes really got.:strong:

Broncos4Life
10-09-2011, 10:09 PM
^... 4/10 will not work long term.

Damn hater. Its too bad 3 1/2 games doesn't account for anything. Your boy Orton looked like a has-been back up today.

TheDave
10-09-2011, 10:13 PM
Damn hater. Its too bad 3 1/2 games doesn't account for anything. Your boy Orton looked like a has-been back up today.

4/10was just for today if you include the other 3 games he is probably around 48%...

So do you think that number needs to improve?

broncocalijohn
10-09-2011, 10:13 PM
Agamennon, two things is I don't disagree with knowing he will make mistakes. It is those that want to disregard that and blame others for those mistakes. A QB isnt going to be perfect, Tebow or Orton. Just want the same balance for both. Sure Orton has had more experience. It doesn't excuse bad throws and everyone should realize that Tebow will make bad plays on calls that should be successful 80% of the time. I don't care if he ****s up on first down if he can get the team the first down when it is 3rd and 5. Today, he lost some battles but almost won the war and that is what is important. 2nd, I think instant gratification will be wanted by many here because they want the quick 12 game answer so we know what we have with Tebow or do we go with a QB in the draft. I really think it won't be just us fans but the front office. That is going to be one hot topic for Bronco Nation. F.O. will have a tough decision as Tebow might improve but is it enough for EFX and Bowlen? Tebow needs to win over EFX and not only the fans. We already know that popular opinion doesn't mean much to what EFX thinks. I would love for Tebow to be our future because that means we are going defense again with that first pick. At least at this moment I think we would be doing that.
I Wonder if Orton wants to go to Miami now and have two weeks to face the Broncos?

SoCalBronco
10-09-2011, 10:17 PM
4/10was just for today if you include the other 3 games he is probably around 48%...

So do you think that number needs to improve?

If he can get up to around 55% consistently, it'll be sufficient for his kind of game.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 10:20 PM
All I can say is wow. You act like you've spoken to him personally to get all this information.

This is all common knowledge... Tebow had planned on going to Bama for a long time because they wanted him and Florida had a QB in Leak.. would you want to go to a school where you didn't start because they already had a QB when you could go to just as a goood a school and start?? It's a nobrainer..

Also, your post is pretty much saying that Tebow choose college success over long term NFL success.

That college success could help him get TO the NFL.. just as it helped him get taken in the first round even though he didn't have experience in a pro style system. But what if he hadn't been such an overwhelming success at Florida? that is what he gambled on and it ended up paying off.. but you act like that was a given.. it wasn't... which is WHY it was such a tough decision and why he was prepared to go to Bama..

But no really, you need to get over it. You are not about to tell an Alabama fan, who lives in the state where Bama football is played, that Tebow nearly picked Bama to play at. I was here, I was around all the talk. It was never going to happen.

So yeah, let go of the Tebow nut hair, and get over it.

You are lying to yourself if you think it never could have happened.. the fact remains they were his number 2 choice because of Shula.. and we are seeing why. He is using similar, yet less talented, QBs to perfection.

TheDave
10-09-2011, 10:29 PM
If he can get up to around 55% consistently, it'll be sufficient for his kind of game.

As long as you supplant it with his running, I agree.

As a general rule I think you need to be in the 60+ range to make it in the NFL, but with his running ability I think he can make up for that 5-7% discrepency.

zdoor
10-09-2011, 10:52 PM
Anybody believe Tebow isn't first guy in building tomorrow watching film?

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 11:07 PM
Agamennon, two things is I don't disagree with knowing he will make mistakes. It is those that want to disregard that and blame others for those mistakes. A QB isnt going to be perfect, Tebow or Orton. Just want the same balance for both. Sure Orton has had more experience. It doesn't excuse bad throws and everyone should realize that Tebow will make bad plays on calls that should be successful 80% of the time. I don't care if he ****s up on first down if he can get the team the first down when it is 3rd and 5. Today, he lost some battles but almost won the war and that is what is important. 2nd, I think instant gratification will be wanted by many here because they want the quick 12 game answer so we know what we have with Tebow or do we go with a QB in the draft. I really think it won't be just us fans but the front office. That is going to be one hot topic for Bronco Nation. F.O. will have a tough decision as Tebow might improve but is it enough for EFX and Bowlen? Tebow needs to win over EFX and not only the fans. We already know that popular opinion doesn't mean much to what EFX thinks. I would love for Tebow to be our future because that means we are going defense again with that first pick. At least at this moment I think we would be doing that.
I Wonder if Orton wants to go to Miami now and have two weeks to face the Broncos?

I don't disagree with anything you are saying for the most part. Though I do feel that many judge Tebow against a standard that should be reserved for veterans. Criticizing the bad plays is fine as long as there's some perspective involved. Not this reactionary "Tebow sucks!" when he goes through a string of four or five bad passes.

As far as EFX drafting a QB if Tebow doesn't impress them in the next 11 games, you may be right. Personally, I think Luck is the only guy they are really wanting, and barring a complete suckfest by Tebow from here on out I don't think they'll just draft a QB to draft a QB. We shall see. Maybe they really don't like Tebow, and can't wait to move on. It's hard to say.

Popps
10-09-2011, 11:10 PM
Really? You don't get that?

Don't you realize the issue isn't the actual physical act of taking the snap right? It's reading the defense at the same time.


I think it's a matter of Tebow TRYING to hard to be perfect and win the game rather than just taking the snap and fetaling....

It's a matter of changing so many things at once and getting them right without thinking about them and still being able to react quickly and in rhythm.



If there's one thing that could take the joy out of Tim Tebow for Broncos fans, it's your posts.

Popps
10-09-2011, 11:14 PM
4/10was just for today if you include the other 3 games he is probably around 48%...

So do you think that number needs to improve?

Absolutely. Vick finally learned to throw the football well enough to make teams pay for crowding the line and going after him.

Expect Tebow to see a heavy fronts and lots of pressure from here on out.
Teams are absolutely going to force him to beat them with his arm.

If we were playing against him next week, what would you want our D to do?
No question, you put guys up there and take away his ability to run. Play man coverage, send some blitzes he might not expect and force him to play in the pocket.


The staff will need to find creative ways to help him improve on his completion %, and make things happen with his arms... not just his legs.
If Tebow is going to be a long-term solution, that movement has to start immediately.

extralife
10-09-2011, 11:14 PM
If he can get up to around 55% consistently, it'll be sufficient for his kind of game.

In today's NFL, 55% is not even good enough to get you a seat on the bench. He will have to be a 60% guy if he even wants to make it in the league as a backup. That's just how it is.

TheDave
10-09-2011, 11:24 PM
Absolutely. Vick finally learned to throw the football well enough to make teams pay for crowding the line and going after him.

Expect Tebow to see a heavy fronts and lots of pressure from here on out.
Teams are absolutely going to force him to beat them with his arm.

If we were playing against him next week, what would you want our D to do?
No question, you put guys up there and take away his ability to run. Play man coverage, send some blitzes he might not expect and force him to play in the pocket.



1st couple of games people will still be trying to figure him out (both us and the oponents)... the interesting part is after they figure out how to stop what he is good at. How quickly does he develop new counter punches.

Thats everything for him... Can he develop enough in the passing game to to make him a true dual threat.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 11:29 PM
Absolutely. Vick finally learned to throw the football well enough to make teams pay for crowding the line and going after him.

Expect Tebow to see a heavy fronts and lots of pressure from here on out.
Teams are absolutely going to force him to beat them with his arm.

If we were playing against him next week, what would you want our D to do?
No question, you put guys up there and take away his ability to run. Play man coverage, send some blitzes he might not expect and force him to play in the pocket.


The staff will need to find creative ways to help him improve on his completion %, and make things happen with his arms... not just his legs.
If Tebow is going to be a long-term solution, that movement has to start immediately.

You might be right. The problem is that he actually has a pretty good deep ball. Crowding the line with man coverage on the outside could be very dangerous against a QB that excels at throwing it deep. Heavy blitzing is probably the best strategy, but with Tebow's playmaking potential it could very dangerous. As far as defending the passing game goes, I think zone defense is going to be far better against him. It usually is against young QBs. There's not a lot of zone in college, especially not the complex zone coverages of the NFL. Personally, I'd probably run mostly cover 2 and cover 3 and spy with a LB throughout the game. With a fair bit of blitzing in obvious passing situations.

BroncoMan4ever
10-09-2011, 11:32 PM
i am not too worried about him shorting a few throws today. if it continues then i will worry. but coming in having not thrown in a game situation since the preseason and not against good starters since last year, there was bound to be some rust, so i am not going to over react to that today. so basically anything with him passing i am not too worried about. the guy completed better than 65% of his passes on college, so i believe with reps and live snaps he will improve.

center exchange is another i won't worry too much on, because his reps come mainly from Ramirez on the 2nd team and Walton sucks anyway.

what i want to see worked on is going through his progressions. i want to see more than him just look to his primary and maybe secondary options before he tucks it and runs. i would like to see him audible from the LOS. he needs to see before the snap if he needs to change the play. but again these are things i believe will come from repetition and being on the field.

Ugly Duck
10-09-2011, 11:37 PM
What does Tebow have to work on the most over the next 2 weeks?

Footwork?

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/830408/tebow_spins_medium.gif

SoCalBronco
10-09-2011, 11:44 PM
In today's NFL, 55% is not even good enough to get you a seat on the bench. He will have to be a 60% guy if he even wants to make it in the league as a backup. That's just how it is.

This isn't a traditional player, though. Yes, given today's rules and passing games, 60 is where you should be at and 63-64 is good. However, when talking about Tebow there are some other factors at play. It's not just completion percentage, but its yards per attempt. Tebow's YPA is very high for a guy with not good comp. percentage. He moves the ball in chunks. Strangely, his deep ball is much more accurate and deadly than his very short ball (usually the other way around for 98% of QB's), so right off the bat we're kind of outside of how the norm works. You cannot apply the norm to Tim Tebow. Even at 4/10, he made many things happen and was just inches away from getting three more BIG plays (Lloyd, Decker and last play).

IMO, if they can tailor the offense to his strengths, they can get away with 15/29 games if he can still get 7.7+ YPA even with only 15 completions. Throw in a couple bubble screens to get some cheap yards and you can make it work. This is not going to be a traditional NFL offense. It's not going to be pretty, but it will (should) be creative, hard to defend and difficult to prepare for. 55% can get it done if you've got alot of big plays mixed in there.

Agamemnon
10-09-2011, 11:55 PM
This isn't a traditional player, though. Yes, given today's rules and passing games, 60 is where you should be at and 63-64 is good. However, when talking about Tebow there are some other factors at play. It's not just completion percentage, but its yards per attempt. Tebow's YPA is very high for a guy with not good comp. percentage. He moves the ball in chunks. Strangely, his deep ball is much more accurate and deadly than his very short ball (usually the other way around for 98% of QB's), so right off the bat we're kind of outside of how the norm works. You cannot apply the norm to Tim Tebow. Even at 4/10, he made many things happen and was just inches away from getting three more BIG plays (Lloyd, Decker and last play).

IMO, if they can tailor the offense to his strengths, they can get away with 15/29 games if he can still get 7.7+ YPA even with only 15 completions. Throw in a couple bubble screens to get some cheap yards and you can make it work. This is not going to be a traditional NFL offense. It's not going to be pretty, but it will (should) be creative, hard to defend and difficult to prepare for. 55% can get it done if you've got alot of big plays mixed in there.

A more vertically oriented passing game will always have a lower completion percentage as well. People talking about QBs with completion percentages in the mid to high 60s are talking about dink and dunk QBs that live off the short pass. While I'm sure that Tebow will improve in that area, that doesn't seem like the best way to take advantage of his natural talents.

Anyway, all this talk of completion percentage is silly. All QBs improve their completion percentage as they play more, usually reaching a plateau during their third or fourth year as a starter. Tebow's completion percentage isn't a big deal considering his lack of experience and 1st team reps.

epicSocialism4tw
10-10-2011, 12:13 AM
This isn't a traditional player, though. Yes, given today's rules and passing games, 60 is where you should be at and 63-64 is good. However, when talking about Tebow there are some other factors at play. It's not just completion percentage, but its yards per attempt. Tebow's YPA is very high for a guy with not good comp. percentage. He moves the ball in chunks. Strangely, his deep ball is much more accurate and deadly than his very short ball (usually the other way around for 98% of QB's), so right off the bat we're kind of outside of how the norm works. You cannot apply the norm to Tim Tebow. Even at 4/10, he made many things happen and was just inches away from getting three more BIG plays (Lloyd, Decker and last play).

IMO, if they can tailor the offense to his strengths, they can get away with 15/29 games if he can still get 7.7+ YPA even with only 15 completions. Throw in a couple bubble screens to get some cheap yards and you can make it work. This is not going to be a traditional NFL offense. It's not going to be pretty, but it will (should) be creative, hard to defend and difficult to prepare for. 55% can get it done if you've got alot of big plays mixed in there.

I'd love to see this team run roll-outs, moving pockets, bootlegs, and shotguns all as the primary sets. Play-action, pitches, counters, sweeps, draws, etc. in the run game.

Tebow should be a creative offensive coaches dream. You could literally try to run some throwback pistol formations as well as even trying the option and tons of other plays lost to the slow advent of the modern game.

Tebow is an unconventional player. Its fun to listen to Gruden talk about Tebow because you can hear the excitement in his voice for the opportunity that he presents in revolutionizing offense. The NFL is a copycat league. The innovators are few and far between. Gruden is one of those guys. Being an innovator makes you a legend as a coach. Shanny's run game, Bum Phillips' D, Belichik's passing game, McD's defense, etc. A coach could turn QB'ing on its head with Tebow if he was creative and courageous enough.

If you put Tebow on the move, the defense is automatically at a strategic disadvantage in several ways. That's a powerful reference point to begin from if you are designing an offense. Having an omnilateral platform from which to execute running and passing plays also ensures that defensive players have to exert more energy in covering ground that would otherwise be left as dead space as well as exerting more mental focus by being able to maintain their assignments in moving sets with a QB who is a threat in both offensive phases. If the right brilliant coach got ahold of Tebow, he could fundamentally revolutionize not only the QB position, but the entire way the game is played.

Gort
10-10-2011, 12:21 AM
Footwork?

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/830408/tebow_spins_medium.gif

sure, it looks funny when you crop out all the spazzed-out sparklers players, but we all know Sandy Eggo was lucky to escape with a 5-point victory.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:29 AM
sure, it looks funny when you crop out all the spazzed-out sparklers players, but we all know Sandy Eggo was lucky to escape with a 5-point victory.

He clearly felt the pressure coming from behind when his lineman (Clady?) actually still had the guy locked up. Better than being oblivious and winding up to only have the ball batted out of your hand.

NUB
10-10-2011, 12:36 AM
He just needs to calm down and play the way he can. I think he can be a 60% passer easy, but things like that take time. Right now he is not trusting his reads and is getting happy feet. I think he'll get over that the more he works with the number ones.

fontaine
10-10-2011, 04:24 AM
This thread is awesome.

We had a 6/7 year veteran QB who was struggling to go through his progressions, make good decisions, beat the stacked defenders in the box, and get into the flow of the game.

Yet, these are all things now, apparently, Tebow is expected to work on and improve without the benefit of as much practice, 1st team reps and experience as Orton.

Yeah good luck with that one.

My expectations haven't changed. I still expected the OL/DL to improve, for the run game to carry this offense and for the QB not to get in the way by having multiple turn over games, and killing drives by taking sacks, fumbling or checking it down for a 3/4 yard completion on 3rd and long.

Having a QB who actually wants to be in Denver for the long haul and keep drives alive by scrambling is a bonus.

MacGruder
10-10-2011, 04:29 AM
My expectations haven't changed. I still expected the OL/DL to improve, for the run game to carry this offense and for the QB not to get in the way by having multiple turn over games, and killing drives by taking sacks, fumbling or checking it down for a 3/4 yard completion on 3rd and long.


Also.. even if Tebow has turnovers.. he has an explosive good side Orton doesn't. With Orton there is 1st gear 2nd gear and 3rd gear is lots of turnovers..

Tebow has 5 gears.. even if he happens to crash and burn when at high speed sometimes.. plus he has 4 wheel drive and a kickass stereo..

Old Dude
10-10-2011, 04:54 AM
He needs to work on all of the above, but, unless he gets injured, it looks like he'll get a chance to do it over the next 11 games.

If he makes progress and the Broncos pick up a few wins, then they can continue the restoration job on defense. If it's a trainwreck, then Luck becomes a real possibility. No place to go but up.

v2micca
10-10-2011, 05:44 AM
Get real man a slow release will have a QB sitting on the bench playing hide the Gatorade! Corners in this league average running a 40 in about 4.3 - 4.4
that is 9.3 yards per second. The slower the release the longer a CB has to close the distance on a WR. Compound a slow release with poor foot work and you have CB's jumping routes etc. Tebow has low velocity on his throw too. Soooo....


4.3 - 4.4 Is the league average? Really? Come one man. 4.3 to 4.4 isn't even the league average for Wide Receivers and Corner Backs, much less Defensive Ends, Safeties and Linebackers.

The difference between a quick release and a long wind-up is about .38 seconds. So yes, a guy with a quick release will evade some sacks by getting rid of the ball quicker. But a QB who can go through his reads in the time it takes him to make his 3 step drop is far more valuable.

MacGruder
10-10-2011, 05:56 AM
One thing I think we all need to keep in mind is that Tebow's stats will likely look bad even if he is playing well. That is what Fox's system does to QBs. The offense suffers in order to help the defense. We don't see it because Orton has been so bad.. if Tebow is efficient scoring his numbers will look bad but we could see them pulling out these close wins.

jhns
10-10-2011, 06:01 AM
LOL @ Tebow haters arguing along side raider fans.

Tebow produces. You girls defended Orton when he didn't produce. You are about as smart as a rock...

oubronco
10-10-2011, 06:02 AM
One thing I think we all need to keep in mind is that Tebow's stats will likely look bad even if he is playing well. That is what Fox's system does to QBs. The offense suffers in order to help the defense. We don't see it because Orton has been so bad.. if Tebow is efficient scoring his numbers will look bad but we could see them pulling out these close wins.

No that's what happens when you underthrow the ball to a RB in the flat or overthrow a WR (unless it's Lloyd who makes a circus one handed catch) on an 15 yd out or underthrow a TE who is wide open

That's the things that will make him look bad

MacGruder
10-10-2011, 06:09 AM
No that's what happens when you underthrow the ball to a RB in the flat or overthrow a WR (unless it's Lloyd who makes a circus one handed catch) on an 15 yd out or underthrow a TE who is wide open

That's the things that will make him look bad

I disagree.. I think a lot of those things you are pointing out are simply about being in tune with the starters and the QB...

Tebow has his own little things he likes to do as a QB.. he likes to throw the ball low because it prevents interceptions. His receivers will get used to this and learn to drop to catch passes.

Would you rather have receivers have to drop or risk them having passes bounce off their hands and get intercepted? Tebow dominated college football using these methods. His running ability also prevents him from having to take risks other QBs take.

I actually saw Orton using Tebow's methods. Orton is very smart.. he was trying to take elements of the better QB seeing how effective they are..

Dr. Broncenstein
10-10-2011, 06:12 AM
No that's what happens when you underthrow the ball to a RB in the flat or overthrow a WR (unless it's Lloyd who makes a circus one handed catch) on an 15 yd out or underthrow a TE who is wide open

That's the things that will make him look bad

And produced 14 points vs Orton's 3... and drove the length of the field with less than a minute, giving the team an actual chance... and giving life to a team that was DOA under Orton.

jhns
10-10-2011, 06:16 AM
And produced 14 points vs Orton's 3... and drove the length of the field with less than a minute, giving the team an actual chance... and giving life to a team that was DOA under Orton.

After never practicing with that unit. Many good QBs have had trouble with timing and center exchanges when thrown in with guys they don't normally work with. Tebow had these problems and still produced.

oubronco
10-10-2011, 06:16 AM
I disagree.. I think a lot of those things you are pointing out are simply about being in tune with the starters and the QB...
No cause either you can throw or you can't

Tebow has his own little things he likes to do as a QB.. he likes to throw the ball low because it prevents interceptions. His receivers will get used to this and learnt o drop to catch passes. This has got to be one of the most idiotic things i've read. The QB is supposed to get the ball in the WR's hands in stride so he can run with the ball afterwards not fall down

Would you rather have receivers have to drop or risk them having passes bounce off their hands and get intercepted? Tebow dominated college football using these methods. His running ability also prevent shim from having to take risks other QBs take. I'd rather the QB hit the WR in stride so he can get YAC

I actually saw Orton using Tebow's methods. Orton is very smart.. he was trying to take elements of the better QB seeing how effective they are..LOL

Bold

oubronco
10-10-2011, 06:17 AM
And produced 14 points vs Orton's 3... and drove the length of the field with less than a minute, giving the team an actual chance... and giving life to a team that was DOA under Orton.

I'm glad he replaced Orton but come on he played like shyt if it wasn't for Lloyd making a circus catch and Mcgahee running so well they wouldn't have been in it, not to mention the Defense

Dr. Broncenstein
10-10-2011, 06:20 AM
Forgot to mention a front office that has done nothing but undermine Tebow, a coaching staff that openly lies about how Tebow lost an honest competition for the starting job, no offseason or preseason reps, and being inserted as the halftime starter when the team is teetering on the edge of implosion. Less than ideal circumstances, and the guy just flat out makes things happen.

jhns
10-10-2011, 06:21 AM
I'm glad he replaced Orton but come on he played like shyt if it wasn't for Lloyd making a circus catch and Mcgahee running so well they wouldn't have been in it, not to mention the Defense

We ran well in the first half. We have had good running in multiple games...

The defense didn't just suddenly get better. Someday you will learn that the offense has to help the defense...

MacGruder
10-10-2011, 06:22 AM
No cause either you can throw or you can't

How do you know Tebow didn't mean to throw it where he did?

The QB is supposed to get the ball in the WR's hands in stride so he can run with the ball afterwards not fall down

The receiver is supposed to be OPEN too.. so if he isn't open should the QB just not pass the ball? Or try to put it where it can only be caught by his guy?

I'd rather the QB hit the WR in stride so he can get YAC

I am sure Tebow wishes he had a better offensive coach and players that could get open.. but that's not reality.. You have to be creative.. what is the difference between throwing the ball low if the defender is deep or throwing the ball high when you have a receiver that can jump like Stafford and his tight end..

oubronco
10-10-2011, 06:28 AM
How do you know Tebow didn't mean to throw it where he did?
So the WR's are now supposed to make circus catches and fall down to catch the ball? interesting


The receiver is supposed to be OPEN too.. so if he isn't open should the QB just not pass the ball? Or try to put it where it can't be caught?
I don't know how more open the TE could've been there



I am sure Tebow wishes he had a better offensive coach and players that could get open.. but that's not reality.. You have to be creative.. what is the difference between throwing the ball low if the defender is deep or throwing the ball high when you have a receiver that can jump like Stafford and his tight end..
It's called hitting your WR in the hands where he can make a play with it and something Tebow needs to work on, isn't that the point of this thread? .

enjolras
10-10-2011, 06:31 AM
I'm glad he replaced Orton but come on he played like shyt if it wasn't for Lloyd making a circus catch and Mcgahee running so well they wouldn't have been in it, not to mention the Defense

That circus catch was impressive, but so was the throw. He slotted in over the underneath coverage and gave his man a chance to make that play. He could have been a bit quicker with the pass, but that's timing that comes with experience. The quality of the actual throw, however, was really good.

On the very next play he made an even better throw over the middle to setup a shot at a game winning TD.

Look, I've been critical of the guy... but I find very little to fault on those last 3 plays of the game.

elsid13
10-10-2011, 06:35 AM
Suggesting Tebow has areas where he needs to improve really rubs some people the wrong way...

No ****, it alright to point out that he sucked when came to passing the ball yesterday. He had one good screen pass to Morena and great catch by Lloyd to highlight his day. The rest of his attempts were not good.

For the thread OP questions, he going to need to work on his feet and recognizing the blitz up the middle and from the his left. Yesterday he came in and was able to play against a defense that wasn't prepped for him, he won't have the chance the rest of the season as DCs will force him to uncomfortable positions. In many way Tebow is the prefect #2 QB, able to come without little practice with the 1st team and run around to make plays.

oubronco
10-10-2011, 06:36 AM
That circus catch was impressive, but so was the throw. He slotted in over the underneath coverage and gave his man a chance to make that play. He could have been a bit quicker with the pass, but that's timing that comes with experience. The quality of the actual throw, however, was really good.

On the very next play he made an even better throw over the middle to setup a shot at a game winning TD.

Look, I've been critical of the guy... but I find very little to fault on those last 3 plays of the game.

I've been critical of him as well but I see things differently I guess

MplsBronco
10-10-2011, 07:14 AM
No that's what happens when you underthrow the ball to a RB in the flat or overthrow a WR (unless it's Lloyd who makes a circus one handed catch) on an 15 yd out or underthrow a TE who is wide open

That's the things that will make him look bad

Are you that dense? The ball was put in a spot where only Lloyd could catch it. It was a great pass and a great catch in a high pressure situation. For the love of God.

MplsBronco
10-10-2011, 07:16 AM
I've been critical of him as well but I see things differently I guess

yeah, because you are clearly an idiot. It was a great pass and a great catch.

jhns
10-10-2011, 07:19 AM
Are you that dense? The ball was put in a spot where only Lloyd could catch it. It was a great pass and a great catch in a high pressure situation. For the love of God.

He makes those catches for Orton and it shows how polished Orton is.

He makes those catches for Tebow and it proves Tebow can't throw.


I like that the Tebow haters are clinging to such retarded takes though. I like that they are saying it doesn't matter if you have practiced with your center or receivers. As if a second year player should have his timing down after not working with any of these players this year...

oubronco
10-10-2011, 07:42 AM
He makes those catches for Orton and it shows how polished Orton is.No it's still a shytty throw

He makes those catches for Tebow and it proves Tebow can't throw.It was a bad throw just like the others


I like that the Tebow haters are clinging to such retarded takes though. I like that they are saying it doesn't matter if you have practiced with your center or receivers. As if a second year player should have his timing down after not working with any of these players this year...

The point of the thread is what does Tebow need to work on and I stated his throws whats so fuggin hard to interpret about that

jhns
10-10-2011, 07:44 AM
The point of the thread is what does Tebow need to work on and I stated his throws whats so fuggin hard to interpret about that

Haters gonna hate.

snowspot66
10-10-2011, 07:56 AM
55% can get it done if you've got alot of big plays mixed in there.

Yesterday he was 4/10 but one of those was the hail marry, two were in Lloyds hands but he just couldn't bring them down, one was a near miss long ball to Decker after some fantastic scrambling just to get the pass off. As best I can remember he really only had the one dirt ball to the TE that was bad.

I'm hoping he'll be at 60% but 55% would work too like you said. The difference is just 1 in 20. His mobility and big play abilities will more than make up for that one in 20 as long as he protects the ball properly.

Pendejo
10-10-2011, 08:03 AM
The point of the thread is what does Tebow need to work on and I stated his throws whats so fuggin hard to interpret about that

The only proper answer to the questioned posed in the thread title is...everything.

go_broncos
10-10-2011, 08:08 AM
I'm glad he replaced Orton but come on he played like shyt if it wasn't for Lloyd making a circus catch and Mcgahee running so well they wouldn't have been in it, not to mention the Defense

Sam bradford sucks..I know you are mad at Tebow as he defeated your college team.

zdoor
10-10-2011, 08:46 AM
Footwork, timing and getting used to NFL defenses

broncocalijohn
10-10-2011, 10:22 AM
Are you that dense? The ball was put in a spot where only Lloyd could catch it. It was a great pass and a great catch in a high pressure situation. For the love of God.

That was mostly on Lloyd. It could have been thrown on the other shoulder and a foot lower. **** MacGruder. He thinks Tebow is perfect as the quotes I have seen from posters responding to him. The Tebowites are so blind it is unbelievable. What sucked for Orton is now great for Tebow. The Lloyd catch wasnt an easy throw but it wasnt on the money either. You make it sound like the defender was all over Lloyd on that catch. No he wasnt. Tebow had a 4-10 day but made a hell of a run and a nice pass to Moreno on the screen and the team led him down for the score. The incomplete pass to Rosario and Willis was absolute dog**** and Orton would have been given so much grief in the chat room yesterday. Tebow can make a good game out of a 4 for 10 game unlike Orton. Some of you need to realize there will be some ugly games with Tebow at the helm. I am just hoping those are also ugly wins for us.

MplsBronco
10-10-2011, 11:05 AM
That was mostly on Lloyd. It could have been thrown on the other shoulder and a foot lower. **** MacGruder. He thinks Tebow is perfect as the quotes I have seen from posters responding to him. The Tebowites are so blind it is unbelievable. What sucked for Orton is now great for Tebow. The Lloyd catch wasnt an easy throw but it wasnt on the money either. You make it sound like the defender was all over Lloyd on that catch. No he wasnt. Tebow had a 4-10 day but made a hell of a run and a nice pass to Moreno on the screen and the team led him down for the score. The incomplete pass to Rosario and Willis was absolute dog**** and Orton would have been given so much grief in the chat room yesterday. Tebow can make a good game out of a 4 for 10 game unlike Orton. Some of you need to realize there will be some ugly games with Tebow at the helm. I am just hoping those are also ugly wins for us.

Whatever makes you feel better.

broncocalijohn
10-10-2011, 11:21 AM
Whatever makes you feel better.

nice explanation. What makes me feel better is wins. Excuses are not going to get them or improve a player.

Drunk Monkey
10-10-2011, 11:23 AM
He makes those catches for Orton and it shows how polished Orton is.

He makes those catches for Tebow and it proves Tebow can't throw.


I like that the Tebow haters are clinging to such retarded takes though. I like that they are saying it doesn't matter if you have practiced with your center or receivers. As if a second year player should have his timing down after not working with any of these players this year...

Jhns, does your world cease to function if people are not placed in 2 orderly groups of pro Jhns view vs opposed to Jhns? Almost everyone agrees it is time for Tebow and happy as all hell that he is finally playing. When someone points out that 4 /10 is not a stellar number they are not automatically a hater.

jhns
10-10-2011, 11:27 AM
Jhns, does your world cease to function if people are not placed in 2 orderly groups of pro Jhns view vs opposed to Jhns? Almost everyone agrees it is time for Tebow and happy as all hell that he is finally playing. When someone points out that 4 /10 is not a stellar number they are not automatically a hater.

They do when talking like he only brought bad to the team as the teams production skyrocketed. They do when saying he has accuracy issues based on that, without mentioning that he hasn't even played with that group of players yet.

Tebow played great for the situation he was thrown into. If your argument doesn't consist of anything positive, you are a hater.

I just go with the facts.

Of course, I'm sure the fact that these same people were claiming he was fourth string before this game, doesn't help prove that they are just haters...

Drunk Monkey
10-10-2011, 12:43 PM
They do when talking like he only brought bad to the team as the teams production skyrocketed. They do when saying he has accuracy issues based on that, without mentioning that he hasn't even played with that group of players yet.

Tebow played great for the situation he was thrown into. If your argument doesn't consist of anything positive, you are a hater.

I just go with the facts.

Of course, I'm sure the fact that these same people were claiming he was fourth string before this game, doesn't help prove that they are just haters...

4 / 10 and missing a few open targets does classify as accuracy issues. He will get better.

As for the 3rd string thing Fox never clarified and they speculated.

I said it in an other thread, everyone needs to chill the **** out and let Tebow prove through actual game time that he is the QB for next year or prove we need to draft one.

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 12:49 PM
I said it in an other thread, everyone needs to chill the **** out and let Tebow prove through actual game time that he is the QB for next year or prove we need to draft one.

Yep. Give the kid time. If he is still struggling with the rookie issues he's struggling with right now at the end of the season, then throw him under the bus if you are so inclined. To judge the guy because he was rusty coming off the bench and playing with guys he has little to no timing with because he threw some crappy passes is just silly. He did some good things, he did some bad things. This is part of the process of QB development.

jhns
10-10-2011, 02:14 PM
4 / 10 and missing a few open targets does classify as accuracy issues. He will get better.

As for the 3rd string thing Fox never clarified and they speculated.

I said it in an other thread, everyone needs to chill the **** out and let Tebow prove through actual game time that he is the QB for next year or prove we need to draft one.

4/10 when thrown into a horrible situation, with a unit he hasn't practiced with. 4/10 while bringing a dead offense back to life and giving us a chance to win. It isn't like they were stacking the run while way ahead...

It will be an issue if he has a low percentage in later games. It meant nothing this game.

You are being a hater if you say he was the third best qb in preaseason. Quinn was terrible.

I agree, he does need to prove he is the future. In his 3.5 real games, he has been extremely productive. He will have to be one of the few QBs that actually gets worse after their first few games in order to be what some are claiming. The guy ran the seventh best offense in the league last year. He instantly upped our production against a decent defense this year. I don't get the third string, he probably won't make it, talk. It is an opinion that ignores all facts.

Requiem
10-10-2011, 02:15 PM
Quick reads opposite field.

Bronco Yoda
10-10-2011, 02:20 PM
Somebody needs to write some bible verses on Walton's ass every day so Tebow can better lay hands on it. :)

A verse a day will keep the fumbles away...

Maximus
10-10-2011, 03:51 PM
Mock?

:D Yeah it was appropriate