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View Full Version : Do you trade Lloyd before the deadline?


UberBroncoMan
10-09-2011, 12:43 PM
I'm curious how those on the forum would view a trade such as this.

If you could trade Brandon Lloyd to a team like St. Louis (knows their system and they need a WR badly) before the deadline do you do it?..or is this utter insanity and a guy we need to lockup long term after this season.

With a healthy Royal and both Thomas' back *knock on wood,* that would give us Thomas/Decker/Royal as our WR core, plus Willis and the ability to use Julius as a WR in certain packages. We also have a potentially promising WR in Riley on our practice squad.

We get a 2nd round pick for this trade btw. If you'd take it for a 3rd or something else, say so as well.

Personally I trade him for a 2nd if possible. He makes some amazing catches, but he's getting older, is kind of a diva, will demand a sizable salary and we have a lot of youth waiting on the wing.

Simple Jake
10-09-2011, 12:44 PM
No

vonqkilla
10-09-2011, 12:45 PM
For a 2nd, yes. 3Rd, no.

Conklin
10-09-2011, 12:45 PM
hells yes, and he'd love that trade too as itd get him back in missouri where he's from

oubronco
10-09-2011, 12:46 PM
For a 1st to a desperate team

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 12:46 PM
No.

Play2win
10-09-2011, 12:47 PM
Hell to the f*** NO!!!

maven
10-09-2011, 12:49 PM
For a 2nd? YES, you do it!

Simple Jake
10-09-2011, 12:49 PM
Although I love Royal, he has done nothing since his rookie year.. I also like Julius Thomas but he is unproven (I think that's a word).. and although D. Thomas has all the talent in the world, he has yet to be able to stay healthy.. a healthy Decker and Lloyd is one of the best duo's in the league imo

Requiem
10-09-2011, 12:50 PM
Only if the compensation is right and you know you cannot work out a long-term deal. Keep in mind that Eddie Royal is a free agent at the end of the year.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 12:50 PM
Thomas and Royal can't be counted on period.

Bronx33
10-09-2011, 12:51 PM
Thomas/Royal/Decker


sounds like a great sammich

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 12:51 PM
Although I love Royal, he has done nothing since his rookie year.. I also like Julius Thomas but he is unproven (I think that's a word).. and although D. Thomas has all the talent in the world, he has yet to be able to stay healthy.. a healthy Decker and Lloyd is one of the best duo's in the league imo

^this.

Seriously, haven't we seen enough trading the talent out of town for draft picks for a lifetime?

Play2win
10-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Hopefully Lloyd has a 150yd 2TD day and this thread gets bumped more than Keith Richards on a bad weekend.

Drek
10-09-2011, 12:54 PM
I'd trade him for a 4th. It would be a huge mistake to give him a big long term deal and that is what he's going to need this off-season. Having him this year isn't going to suddenly make us a title contender.

Lloyd likely isn't a positive piece to this team's short term rebuild and he definitely isn't a long term piece. We won't trade him but by not doing so its the equivalent of a farmer letting his crops rot in the barn rather than sell them. Its idiocy.

The Joker
10-09-2011, 12:55 PM
Depends.

If the team doesn't want to sign him long term then yes, I'd do it. We're not going anywhere this year and need picks to rebuild for the future so any extra picks would be great for the draft next year.

Hopefully D Thomas will be back after the bye, Decker looks a legit starter and Royal shouldn't be given up on yet. So we do have depth at receiver, and they're all young guys who'll benefit from getting more reps.

I'd do it...

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 12:55 PM
I'd trade him for a 4th. It would be a huge mistake to give him a big long term deal and that is what he's going to need this off-season. Having him this year isn't going to suddenly make us a title contender.

Lloyd likely isn't a positive piece to this team's short term rebuild and he definitely isn't a long term piece. We won't trade him but by not doing so its the equivalent of a farmer letting his crops rot in the barn rather than sell them. Its idiocy.

WOW

Drek
10-09-2011, 12:56 PM
Hopefully Lloyd has a 150yd 2TD day and this thread gets bumped more than Keith Richards on a bad weekend.

Which would be a perfect opportunity to sell high.

Do you want to give Brandon Lloyd $8M a year with probably nothing less than $15M guaranteed?

Is that really good allocation of our resources?

Will a team that balked at $5M per for Brandon Mebane, a proven DT who was only 26 years old and high on their FA targets list, actually even pony that up?

I'd say the answer to all three questions is a resounding "no". So why sit on a valuable commodity and just watch it expire?

Simple Jake
10-09-2011, 12:57 PM
I'd trade him for a 4th. It would be a huge mistake to give him a big long term deal and that is what he's going to need this off-season. Having him this year isn't going to suddenly make us a title contender.

Lloyd likely isn't a positive piece to this team's short term rebuild and he definitely isn't a long term piece. We won't trade him but by not doing so its the equivalent of a farmer letting his crops rot in the barn rather than sell them. Its idiocy.

:pity:

Dagmar
10-09-2011, 01:00 PM
Only if the compensation is right and you know you cannot work out a long-term deal. Keep in mind that Eddie Royal is a free agent at the end of the year.

What this bloke said.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 01:00 PM
Which would be a perfect opportunity to sell high.

Do you want to give Brandon Lloyd $8M a year with probably nothing less than $15M guaranteed?

Is that really good allocation of our resources?

Will a team that balked at $5M per for Brandon Mebane, a proven DT who was only 26 years old and high on their FA targets list, actually even pony that up?

I'd say the answer to all three questions is a resounding "no". So why sit on a valuable commodity and just watch it expire?
So you think going into the offseason with Decker and Thomas as are two best signed WRs is the best idea for this team moving forward? WR isn't a problem area for this team and all of the sudden you want to make it one for a 4th round draft pick LOL.

broncocalijohn
10-09-2011, 01:01 PM
With dthomas injured and royal far from his rookie season nope.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 01:01 PM
I think the answer depends on replacing his numbers. How do you do that? Decker is coming on but he won't be able to do it by himself. Royal has been wildly inconsistent. D. Thomas can't stay on the field.

Then we are talking about taking a WR with a 1st or 2nd round pick, which should be used on the defensive side of the ball.

They need to pony up the money for a few years until his numbers drop or we have the depth to make that move. Otherwise they need to keep him in Denver.

Jay3
10-09-2011, 01:02 PM
Absolutely I would, but teams don't do that like they do in baseball.

He's not signed for next year. Get value if you can.

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 01:03 PM
This is the NFL, and its extremely rare that players are traded over the course of a season.

SimonFletcher73
10-09-2011, 01:06 PM
I think they'd take a 2nd or 3rd. Good value for a guy that most likely won't be a Bronco next year anyways.

Unless anybody thinks we're poised for a playoff run this year.

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 01:11 PM
The Rams would love to have Lloyd, and I bet they're going to be the high bidder in the offseason.

Drek
10-09-2011, 01:21 PM
So you think going into the offseason with Decker and Thomas as are two best signed WRs is the best idea for this team moving forward? WR isn't a problem area for this team and all of the sudden you want to make it one for a 4th round draft pick LOL.

That is happening anyway. Lloyd will be 31 next season. He can't exactly afford to lose a step. His entire career only has one consistent trait to it, which is that his massive decline from solid to horrible came following a nice contract given to him by the Redskins. Our owner refused to pay less money for a younger, more proven asset at a bigger need position.

Add it all up. Do you really think Lloyd will be back? If so will he be the same guy he was last year? Hell, he isn't even that guy this year. He's been a garbage time stat filler along with Orton this season. Decker is the guy making plays when games are close.

WR is becoming a liability next season whether you like it or not. The real question here is do we burn $8M per of cap room to keep Lloyd, just let him walk, or do we assure ourselves some draft compensation.

One of those is the smart long term play, the other two are various degrees of wasting assets.

I'd expect that we could get a 3rd out of some team, possibly a 2nd or conditional 2nd/3rd. But if all we could get was a 4th? I'd probably still do it. The best we would get when/if he leaves is a 3rd round compensatory pick (back end of the round) and we won't get to actually use that pick until the 2013 draft. A mid-4th in the 2012 draft is a better asset.

Play2win
10-09-2011, 01:47 PM
Which would be a perfect opportunity to sell high.

Do you want to give Brandon Lloyd $8M a year with probably nothing less than $15M guaranteed?

Is that really good allocation of our resources?

Will a team that balked at $5M per for Brandon Mebane, a proven DT who was only 26 years old and high on their FA targets list, actually even pony that up?

I'd say the answer to all three questions is a resounding "no". So why sit on a valuable commodity and just watch it expire?

I don't pay attention to local media anymore, so I don't exactly know what he's said to get everybody in such a tizzy. Don't really care.

I just know he is sure fun to watch play.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 01:48 PM
One of those is the smart long term play, the other two are various degrees of wasting assets.



So getting rid of a WR for a draft pick and then having to use another draft pick on a WR in the draft is thrifty?

Play2win
10-09-2011, 01:51 PM
I just think Lloyd is one of our best assets on the football field. He is one of the few players we got that can actually put points on the board.

vonqkilla
10-09-2011, 01:52 PM
Just between you and me and the interwebs...

Some have said that some people are pissed about not getting a big contract extension, and are all mopey about it, and probably effecting someones effort, definitely attitude.

Old divas not worth a 2nd anyway.

BroncoLover
10-09-2011, 02:36 PM
i would rather try and see if we can trade royal away and keep Brandon some way. I don't think royal will come back to that rookie year form in this offense. May be Mike should trade for him and work him majic on him again, i don't see him having a good career in Denver.

vanbrugh
10-09-2011, 02:44 PM
Phone miami now brandon and kyle for a 2nd and 4th!

Drek
10-09-2011, 02:47 PM
So getting rid of a WR for a draft pick and then having to use another draft pick on a WR in the draft is thrifty?

We would give up 11 games of a vet WR for young WRs we would have here long term.

See the difference?

If you think we should keep Lloyd then tell me what we should give him for an extension. We sure as **** aren't winning the Super Bowl this year, so the only way Lloyd has any value other than trading him for a draft pick is if we sign him long term.

What kind of contract do you think a 31 year old Brandon Lloyd would sign that isn't going to **** over an already financially strapped team?

maven
10-09-2011, 02:48 PM
If you can move Lloyd for picks, you move him now.

elsid13
10-09-2011, 02:53 PM
Trade his ass

Aftermath
10-09-2011, 02:54 PM
yes. a big yes

Popps
10-09-2011, 02:55 PM
You don't trade our only deep threat unless you want to be spending draft picks on WR's this coming off-season. No matter who or QB is, we need a guy to stretch the field.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 02:56 PM
We would give up 11 games of a vet WR for young WRs we would have here long term.

See the difference?

If you think we should keep Lloyd then tell me what we should give him for an extension. We sure as **** aren't winning the Super Bowl this year, so the only way Lloyd has any value other than trading him for a draft pick is if we sign him long term.

What kind of contract do you think a 31 year old Brandon Lloyd would sign that isn't going to **** over an already financially strapped team?

Financially strapped? Have you seen our cap number?

While I agree that we aren't winning the Super Bowl this year (or next for that matter), I would rather use our draft picks to bring in players for positions that are NOT currently of need. WR is the one position that we could not draft anyone and still be ok. And that is assuming that Royal comes back.

EmpireOrange
10-09-2011, 02:56 PM
Yes. He's hyped right now. We could get great value. By season's end though he will journey man status again. The guy just has bad hands and dosen't like to take hits.

RaiderH8r
10-09-2011, 02:57 PM
Only if they take Orton with him.

Drek
10-09-2011, 03:09 PM
Financially strapped? Have you seen our cap number?

While I agree that we aren't winning the Super Bowl this year (or next for that matter), I would rather use our draft picks to bring in players for positions that are NOT currently of need. WR is the one position that we could not draft anyone and still be ok. And that is assuming that Royal comes back.

1. Yes, I have seen our total salary, it is ~$20M below the cap. Yet we couldn't afford to offer Mebane the $5M per that Seattle gave him.

2. Are you also assuming Lloyd will be back? If so how much will we pay him? And if so do you really expect a 31 year old WR who has had one good season in his entire career to date to be worth the contract he'll require?

WR is a need position regardless of if we trade Lloyd because he's either gone in FA or getting cut for sucking within two years. He has no long term value, and his short term value is squandered on a team that can't win games.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 03:23 PM
1. Yes, I have seen our total salary, it is ~$20M below the cap. Yet we couldn't afford to offer Mebane the $5M per that Seattle gave him.

2. Are you also assuming Lloyd will be back? If so how much will we pay him? And if so do you really expect a 31 year old WR who has had one good season in his entire career to date to be worth the contract he'll require?

WR is a need position regardless of if we trade Lloyd because he's either gone in FA or getting cut for sucking within two years. He has no long term value, and his short term value is squandered on a team that can't win games.

1. Willing to spend the money and affording things are two totally different things.

2. Yes. Hopefully a lot in back-loaded money. He won't require as much as a guy that has had 4+ seasons of productive football.

There is no need in giving him up now in return for a pick just to draft another WR. That makes no sense.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 04:33 PM
Still think we should trade Lloyd?

DenverBound
10-09-2011, 04:34 PM
Smack yourself in the face for making this thread. Thnx.

Bigdawg26
10-09-2011, 04:38 PM
HELL NAH!!!!! He is the best WR we have! His hands are freakin crazy good!

fontaine
10-09-2011, 04:39 PM
You don't create a need on the team by trading away talented play makers, and then have to draft for that position.

That is unless, you're a hoodie wearing douche.

We trade Lloyd and that leaves:

DT hasn't shown he can stay healthy.
Royal is a nobody and Decker then gets to line up against the #1 CB, with a bunch of blocking TEs and noobs in Thomas/Green.

Great ******g plan.

Simple Jake
10-09-2011, 04:39 PM
Holy ****** **** what a catch.. this thread is dead

BroncoLover
10-09-2011, 04:40 PM
As i mentioned in the thread earlier, trade royal.. and keep brandon. give him 2 or 3 yr contract and see if he takes it. he is the only deep threat. If bey-bey returns, he , bey-bey and decker will be 3 good bodies to have

ant1999e
10-09-2011, 04:40 PM
Keep Lloyd.

Requiem
10-09-2011, 04:43 PM
You don't trade our only deep threat unless you want to be spending draft picks on WR's this coming off-season. No matter who or QB is, we need a guy to stretch the field.

Brandon Lloyd is on the wrong side of age for a wide receiver to get an extension.

DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe, Steve Johnson, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, etc. are all available in free agency. Only Welker and Wayne are older.

Doesn't mean we have to draft someone.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 04:44 PM
Brandon Lloyd is on the wrong side of age for a wide receiver to get an extension.

DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe, Steve Johnson, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, etc. are all available in free agency. Only Welker and Wayne are older.

Doesn't mean we have to draft someone.

Also means we get to keep Lloyd for less if there are so many talented WRs available.

Bronx33
10-09-2011, 04:45 PM
lets burn this thread

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2328/gascank.jpg

maven
10-09-2011, 04:45 PM
Yes, I would still trade him for a 2nd round pick.

DB-Freak
10-09-2011, 04:46 PM
Yes get the best value out of him.

Incredible body control and great WR, but wrong side of the 30s.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 04:46 PM
Yes, I would still trade him for a 2nd round pick.

Josh?? Is that You??

Requiem
10-09-2011, 04:50 PM
Also means we get to keep Lloyd for less if there are so many talented WRs available.

Not necessarily.

fontaine
10-09-2011, 04:53 PM
Brandon Lloyd is on the wrong side of age for a wide receiver to get an extension.

DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe, Steve Johnson, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, etc. are all available in free agency. Only Welker and Wayne are older.

Doesn't mean we have to draft someone.

I don't mind trading Lloyd as long as we have a replacement ready.

Right now we don't.

Do you really want to trade lloyd and then hope those teams allow those WRs to hit the market and get in a bidding war with other teams?

You don't trade away talent and create a need. That's not how you build a team. All the best franchises have replacements first and foremost and then can afford to trade away over 30 players.

And lloyd doesn't have all that mileage on him for a guy his age.

Requiem
10-09-2011, 04:54 PM
Do you honestly think Lloyd is going to be re-signed? Do you think he is more valuable than some of the players up there?

Bronx33
10-09-2011, 04:55 PM
I don't mind trading Lloyd as long as we have a replacement ready.

Right now we don't.

Do you really want to trade lloyd and then hope those teams allow those WRs to hit the market and get in a bidding war with other teams?

You don't trade away talent and create a need. That's not how you build a team. All the best franchises have replacements first and foremost and then can afford to trade away over 30 players.

And lloyd doesn't have all that mileage on him for a guy his age.


and theres the HUGE problem.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 04:55 PM
Not necessarily.

Maybe, maybe not. Point is that I would rather keep him in Denver and maybe bring in another FA receiver off your list and we are set.

I am tired of the addition by subtraction model. How about we go with the addition by addition model instead.

fontaine
10-09-2011, 05:15 PM
Do you honestly think Lloyd is going to be re-signed? Do you think he is more valuable than some of the players up there?

Who the hell cares right now?

A lot can happen between now and the offseason.

Let's just ride out this season, see how our young guns develop. If Decker/Thomas suck this season, then hell yes, Lloyd gets resigned. You can always franchise tag his a$$ then look to trade him.

But trading him now, before the dead line is just braindead considering we've got a young QB who has a good long ball and needs all the healthy, reliable weapons we got.

maven
10-09-2011, 05:29 PM
Josh?? Is that You??

No. Would like to see the team continue with the youth movement. And to add, paying a 31 year old WR $$$. No thanks.

maven
10-09-2011, 05:31 PM
. You can always franchise tag his a$$ then look to trade him.


You do know he could sign that contract for 1 year and make a ton of money. No way this team franchise tags him.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 05:34 PM
No. Would like to see the team continue with the youth movement. And to add, paying a 31 year old WR $$$. No thanks.

They can do both.

Drek
10-09-2011, 05:36 PM
Maybe, maybe not. Point is that I would rather keep him in Denver and maybe bring in another FA receiver off your list and we are set.

I am tired of the addition by subtraction model. How about we go with the addition by addition model instead.

And then we get to add another guy in two years when Lloyd losses a step and can't get it done in the NFL anymore.

maven
10-09-2011, 05:39 PM
They can do both.

In regards to the thread, yes I'd trade him for a 2nd.

If he's brought back at decent pay, bring him back. Offering franchise tags and huge guaranteed money is not the way to go.

Will be interesting to see who Tebow develops a rapport with on offense.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 05:40 PM
And then we get to add another guy in two years when Lloyd losses a step and can't get it done in the NFL anymore.

That's fine with me. In the mean time the guy who we drafted on defense has two years experience. If we trade Lloyd that pick becomes a WR and we start all over again.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 05:47 PM
Yes get the best value out of him.

Incredible body control and great WR, but wrong side of the 30s.

He is only 30. You act like WRs don't play well into their 30s which is far from true.

gyldenlove
10-09-2011, 05:49 PM
No, he is our best offensive skill player and with Tebow coming in we are going to need some good WRs especially with Thomas being injured all the time.

vonqkilla
10-09-2011, 05:49 PM
Buy low (draft pick), sell high

Someone said that, props to him

mustangtoby
10-09-2011, 06:04 PM
Haven't we let enough talent go the last couple of years?

Vine
10-09-2011, 06:08 PM
Why the f*** do these stupid ass threads exist?

ColoradoDarin
10-09-2011, 06:45 PM
I don't know the answer, but if the team isn't planning on resigning him, then yeah I think you trade him.

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 06:50 PM
And then we get to add another guy in two years when Lloyd losses a step and can't get it done in the NFL anymore.

He is 30 damn years old. Good God man WRs play well past the age of 30.

Play2win
10-09-2011, 06:57 PM
Insane, this thread is.

Vine
10-09-2011, 07:06 PM
Brandon Lloyd had two of the most athletic catches ever, one was ruled incomplete because he was barely ruled in bounds, the other was a real catch as he fell in bounds, but yeah, he's a bum. So, let's trade him.


Damn, what a stupid thread.

Drek
10-09-2011, 07:28 PM
He is 30 damn years old. Good God man WRs play well past the age of 30.

And Brandon Lloyd was a scrub until he was 29 and played in an offense that forced the ball to him over 100 times last year.

He's not a guy you give a long term deal to, but that is what he's after this off-season. He's not a guy who can afford to give up a step, but he will soon.

We aren't talking about Randy Moss who had speed to spare, Terrell Owens who's physical play removed the need for elite speed, Jerry Rice who was the best fundamental WR of all time, etc..

WRs who work past 30 are damn good WRs. The suggestion to retain Lloyd hinges on him being such a WR, but who for some inexplicable reason didn't emerge until he was 29. That doesn't sound like a very safe bet to me.

To put it more simply, if your option was to give Lloyd a 4 year, $36M deal with $15M guaranteed or could instead trade him for a 3rd and sign Vincent Jackson away from the Chargers for 5 years, $45M and $18M guaranteed?

You keep Lloyd by giving him #1 WR money. I just don't see how a guy with one standout year and a few good games this season commands #1 WR money when there are younger, more proven options that will hit FA. Couple that with the ability to recoup draft value for him and its the smart long term play to ship him out.

brncs_fan
10-09-2011, 07:35 PM
And Brandon Lloyd was a scrub until he was 29 and played in an offense that forced the ball to him over 100 times last year.

He's not a guy you give a long term deal to, but that is what he's after this off-season. He's not a guy who can afford to give up a step, but he will soon.

We aren't talking about Randy Moss who had speed to spare, Terrell Owens who's physical play removed the need for elite speed, Jerry Rice who was the best fundamental WR of all time, etc..

WRs who work past 30 are damn good WRs. The suggestion to retain Lloyd hinges on him being such a WR, but who for some inexplicable reason didn't emerge until he was 29. That doesn't sound like a very safe bet to me.

To put it more simply, if your option was to give Lloyd a 4 year, $36M deal with $15M guaranteed or could instead trade him for a 3rd and sign Vincent Jackson away from the Chargers for 5 years, $45M and $18M guaranteed?

You keep Lloyd by giving him #1 WR money. I just don't see how a guy with one standout year and a few good games this season commands #1 WR money when there are younger, more proven options that will hit FA. Couple that with the ability to recoup draft value for him and its the smart long term play to ship him out.

The thing that all this hinges on though is whether Tebow finishes out the season as a starter. If he does (and should), then how does it help him to take away your vertical threat and best pass catcher out of the lineup?

To me that is way more important to have a good idea of where Tebow is than to have an extra pick in the third/fourth round.

gyldenlove
10-09-2011, 07:52 PM
Just give him the franchise tag.

extralife
10-09-2011, 09:01 PM
Yeah, lets trade our only experienced receiver. Especially when we're going with a young QB. That core of Decker/????/????/hurt people would look pretty killer.

BroncoMan4ever
10-09-2011, 11:46 PM
this is retarded. Trade the best receiver on the team. just because Demarious might be coming back from injury and the last seasons has made Moreno look like an iron man, Eddie is coming off a pretty rough injury, Thomas can occasionally split out wide, Decker is playing really well and Reilly is on the practice squad?

no chance in hell do you trade him. you sign him to a new deal now, before he goes off and drives his price higher.

cutthemdown
10-10-2011, 01:50 AM
Be hard to find a wr as good as Lloyd for a 2nd even. Its a crap shoot. Id rather just pay him like hes about the 10th best wr in the NFL. If thats not good enough for him then let him walk. But i doubt you can unload him unless he agreed to a new contract which could be tough for another team to want to do. File this in the not going to happen category.

BabyTO
10-10-2011, 02:39 AM
now with tebow in at QB - NO. tebow and lloyd are clicking and lloyd makes the craziest catches when tebow throws him the ball. those 2 will make a lot of bigplays this season. we all saw how bad our other receivers all suck. they dropped the first 4 passes tebow threw

fontaine
10-10-2011, 03:25 AM
And then we get to add another guy in two years when Lloyd losses a step and can't get it done in the NFL anymore.

False. We only have to add in another guy in two years IF Thomas/Decker can't show they're ready.

Right now we don't know if Decker/Thomas can take over. That's the entire point.

fontaine
10-10-2011, 03:28 AM
And Brandon Lloyd was a scrub until he was 29 and played in an offense that forced the ball to him over 100 times last year.

He's not a guy you give a long term deal to, but that is what he's after this off-season. He's not a guy who can afford to give up a step, but he will soon.

We aren't talking about Randy Moss who had speed to spare, Terrell Owens who's physical play removed the need for elite speed, Jerry Rice who was the best fundamental WR of all time, etc..

WRs who work past 30 are damn good WRs. The suggestion to retain Lloyd hinges on him being such a WR, but who for some inexplicable reason didn't emerge until he was 29. That doesn't sound like a very safe bet to me.

To put it more simply, if your option was to give Lloyd a 4 year, $36M deal with $15M guaranteed or could instead trade him for a 3rd and sign Vincent Jackson away from the Chargers for 5 years, $45M and $18M guaranteed?

You keep Lloyd by giving him #1 WR money. I just don't see how a guy with one standout year and a few good games this season commands #1 WR money when there are younger, more proven options that will hit FA. Couple that with the ability to recoup draft value for him and its the smart long term play to ship him out.

Uhm, no. It's not one or the other.

You can still franchise tag him and defer the decision until you know for sure Decker and Thomas are ready.

Drek
10-10-2011, 04:33 AM
Uhm, no. It's not one or the other.

You can still franchise tag him and defer the decision until you know for sure Decker and Thomas are ready.

Sure. If they'd actually do it I'd be all for it. Giving Lloyd top 5 WR money is a ludicrous overpay but it avoids the long term gamble.

I just have no faith Bowlen is willing to pony up that kind of jack in a year when he isn't mandated by the new CBA.

He's got one more year of playing the pauper. I have hard time believing that he's going to forgo that chance and suddenly spend money like a drunken sailor, including handing a $9-10M lump sum over to Lloyd.

That is the problem with Lloyd. He's old but he likely wants big money. Our owner is cheap and the FO as a result refused to give middling money to key FA targets just this past off-season.

To me our best hope is that the glut of FA WRs hitting the market, coupled by his age and previous inconsistencies, drives Lloyd's price way down. If so then fantastic. But that is planning for the best, not just hoping for it and planning for the worst.

I will say though, now that Fox has finally grew a pair and is starting Tebow I would be much more hesitant to give him up, and would no longer take a 4th, probably not even a 3rd. The experience Tebow will gain by having good WR options is more valuable than than the value difference between those picks in 2012 and the compensatory pick we'd likely get in 2013 if we do lose him.

But if someone like the Rams offered was was likely an early to mid-2nd for him? I'm there in a heartbeat. The only way this rebuild works is if the organization can hit on its 1st and 2nd round targets. Giving them more fire power only helps.

SPORTSWRITER
10-10-2011, 05:57 AM
I'm curious how those on the forum would view a trade such as this.

If you could trade Brandon Lloyd to a team like St. Louis (knows their system and they need a WR badly) before the deadline do you do it?..or is this utter insanity and a guy we need to lockup long term after this season.

With a healthy Royal and both Thomas' back *knock on wood,* that would give us Thomas/Decker/Royal as our WR core, plus Willis and the ability to use Julius as a WR in certain packages. We also have a potentially promising WR in Riley on our practice squad.

We get a 2nd round pick for this trade btw. If you'd take it for a 3rd or something else, say so as well.

Personally I trade him for a 2nd if possible. He makes some amazing catches, but he's getting older, is kind of a diva, will demand a sizable salary and we have a lot of youth waiting on the wing.

If we couldn't get a first for Brandon Marshall (only got a second, I think) then I don't see anyone giving us more than a third for Lloyd. I might take that though, if it were a high third-round pick.

AlphaSeirra
10-10-2011, 06:01 AM
Maybe,,,, if the Redskins would give us a 2nd and J.Gaffney back for him. ;)

But I doubt that Shanny would be stupid enough to go for that.... Ha!

55CrushEm
10-10-2011, 06:08 AM
And Brandon Lloyd was a scrub until he was 29 and played in an offense that forced the ball to him over 100 times last year.

He's not a guy you give a long term deal to, but that is what he's after this off-season. He's not a guy who can afford to give up a step, but he will soon.

We aren't talking about Randy Moss who had speed to spare, Terrell Owens who's physical play removed the need for elite speed, Jerry Rice who was the best fundamental WR of all time, etc..

WRs who work past 30 are damn good WRs. The suggestion to retain Lloyd hinges on him being such a WR, but who for some inexplicable reason didn't emerge until he was 29. That doesn't sound like a very safe bet to me.

To put it more simply, if your option was to give Lloyd a 4 year, $36M deal with $15M guaranteed or could instead trade him for a 3rd and sign Vincent Jackson away from the Chargers for 5 years, $45M and $18M guaranteed?

You keep Lloyd by giving him #1 WR money. I just don't see how a guy with one standout year and a few good games this season commands #1 WR money when there are younger, more proven options that will hit FA. Couple that with the ability to recoup draft value for him and its the smart long term play to ship him out.

That is the key. People whining that we must keep Lloyd, aren't acknowledging this part. And again, we ARE NOT winning the
Superbowl this year.....so IF you trade him, you HAVE to do it now. Repeating the obvious here......but BL is a FA at the end of the year.

55CrushEm
10-10-2011, 06:09 AM
Just give him the franchise tag.

That could be an option.....but I have to say I agree with Drek.....BL is not a guy I want to give #1 WR money to....he's just not. I don't mind giving him a 4 year deal.....but not at #1 money.

55CrushEm
10-10-2011, 06:10 AM
now with tebow in at QB - NO. tebow and lloyd are clicking and lloyd makes the craziest catches when tebow throws him the ball. those 2 will make a lot of bigplays this season. we all saw how bad our other receivers all suck. they dropped the first 4 passes tebow threw

Well, to be fair to the other WR's you mention here......Tebow's first few passes sucked.....that were at the tops of their shoes.

ChrisToker
10-10-2011, 06:19 AM
Although I love Royal, he has done nothing since his rookie year.. I also like Julius Thomas but he is unproven (I think that's a word).. and although D. Thomas has all the talent in the world, he has yet to be able to stay healthy.. a healthy Decker and Lloyd is one of the best duo's in the league imo

Royal has to do ninja **** to catch the ball. He is always having to do shoes string cathes or dive for the reception. I think Orton was trying to get him injured sometimes. W/ poor accuracy Tebow has Royal will be a non factor. Hope he finds his way to Washington or Chicago where he would be allowed to shine.

oubronco
10-10-2011, 06:30 AM
We would be up shytcreek if they traded Lloyd

Who make the circus acrobatic catches

AlphaSeirra
10-10-2011, 06:50 AM
Well, to be fair to the other WR's you mention here......Tebow's first few passes sucked.....that were at the tops of their shoes.

What you don't know, is how Tim was coached to throw the ball at UF against ball hawking SEC defenses.

Why does Tim throw so few Ints?

Ball Placement is why. Put it where ONLY your guy has a chance to catch it.
This does require receivers that can adjust to the ball and make a tough catch, but isn't that what NFL receivers get paid to do?

What looks like inaccuracy to most, is in reality 'excellent' ball placement.

Tim was only 4 of 10 in that game (inaccurate?), but look at the actual results of his 10 throws: 20 yds/comp, 1 TD, 0 Ints, while giving up 0 Sacks.
That yeilds a game NFL Pass Efficiency Rating of 101.7 ^5

Just a FYI, Last season:
Orton with Lloyd - 1 TD per 7 Comp's, 18.3 ypc
Tebow with Lloyd - 1 TD per 7 Comp's, 18.8 ypc

55CrushEm
10-10-2011, 06:55 AM
What you don't know, is how Tim was coached to throw the ball at UF against ball hawking SEC defenses.

Why does Tim throw so few Ints?

Ball Placement is why. Put it where ONLY your guy has a chance to catch it.
This does require receivers that can adjust to the ball and make a tough catch, but isn't that what NFL receivers get paid to do?

What looks like inaccuracy to most, is in reality 'excellent' ball placement.

Tim was only 4 of 10 in that game (inaccurate?), but look at the actual results of his 10 throws: 20 yds/comp, 1 TD, 0 Ints, while giving up 0 Sacks.
That yeilds a game NFL Pass Efficiency Rating of 101.7 ^5

Just a FYI, Last season:
Orton with Lloyd - 1 TD per 7 Comp's, 18.3 ypc
Tebow with Lloyd - 1 TD per 7 Comp's, 18.8 ypc

Dude....I'm not a Tebow hater. I was responding to the other posters comments that our other receivers suck. The pass to Rosario was at his shoe laces....and it wasn't to avoid and interception.....nor was it "good ball placement".

BTW.....I'm pumped that we're finally starting Tebow. You just missed was I was responding to.

alkemical
10-13-2011, 05:29 AM
You trade him if you are going to Suck for Luck & commit totally to the rebuild.

Crushaholic
10-13-2011, 08:38 AM
You trade him if you are going to Suck for Luck & commit totally to the rebuild.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

broncocalijohn
10-13-2011, 08:59 AM
What you don't know, is how Tim was coached to throw the ball at UF against ball hawking SEC defenses.

Why does Tim throw so few Ints?

Ball Placement is why. Put it where ONLY your guy has a chance to catch it.
This does require receivers that can adjust to the ball and make a tough catch, but isn't that what NFL receivers get paid to do?
What looks like inaccuracy to most, is in reality 'excellent' ball placement.

Tim was only 4 of 10 in that game (inaccurate?), but look at the actual results of his 10 throws: 20 yds/comp, 1 TD, 0 Ints, while giving up 0 Sacks.
That yeilds a game NFL Pass Efficiency Rating of 101.7 ^5

Just a FYI, Last season:
Orton with Lloyd - 1 TD per 7 Comp's, 18.3 ypc
Tebow with Lloyd - 1 TD per 7 Comp's, 18.8 ypc

Sorry but you have got to be MacGruder. Same BS we have now heard from him. You used to just give the same stat lines over and over but now with "placing the ball where no one else can get it" is complete to where you have gone full retard. Stop making excuses for bad passes. It happens. We want most of our catches to have some yards after catch not catch and get tagged down because you had to dive to get it.

There is no way we can have two ****ing retards on Tebow's joke. You and MacGruder have got to be the same. (cant believe I have used iggy a few times in the last two weeks but someone is getting closer to joining Mac)

Peoples Champ
10-13-2011, 10:01 AM
i dont mind it, i just dont think denver will do it.

teknic
10-13-2011, 10:35 AM
I would be okay with the move, and I'd understand it if it did happen, but I'd much rather Lloyd stay a Bronco. We have more than enough cap room to resign him, and at some point we have to stop trading away talent.

Tebow is still developing as a passer, and sometimes has poor accuracy. What receiver in the league is better at adjusting to poorly thrown balls and making amazing catches? Not very many. Lloyd convinced some people last year that Orton was a good quarterback because of all the catches he made on terrible throws by Orton. Lloyd is one of the top possession receivers in the league. Look at the Houston game with Tebow last year; that comeback never happens if Lloyd doesn't bail Tebow out a couple of times.