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epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 01:55 AM
John Fox:

"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day."

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19059921#ixzz1aB67lOyP

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That's a meaty bit of info there.

Fox explicitly stated that he believes in Tebow, and that he specifically believes that Tebow is going to be an excellent QB.

He also said that Tebow is getting better.

So if Fox believes that Tebow will be an excellent QB, and that he is getting better by the day, then the obvious conclusion is that Fox believes that the QB position is locked up long term with Tebow.

I think that we all can use this quote to take it easier on Orton. Its becoming apparent that the Broncos are protecting Tebow. They believe that they have the luxury of developing Tebow in a way that makes him more efficient in the offense in the long term.

I'd love to see the Broncos get a compensatory pick for Orton.

cutthemdown
10-08-2011, 02:06 AM
Most long time fans saw the writing on the wall. Fox will play Orton until its shown he is a bottom tier QB and not capable of big plays in the clutch. Once enough vets believe its time for Tebow, and Orton is say 1-4 1-6 something like that, he will make the move.

Why its smart.

1- you get enough vets behind you to quiet a few like Lloyd
2- you get a throw away yr where you can say you were evaluating qbs
3- you still have enough games top see if Tebow a gamer, and decide what type off guys he needs, what type off offense he could run

in the meantime you have scored on von miller and the defense overall seems a little better.

Tebow will start by week 8 at the latest IMO.

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 02:13 AM
If only we could take them at their word...

What is Fox going to say?

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2011/0116/20110116__Jfox011611a~p1_200.jpg

"I suck as a coach and have no idea how to craft a good offense let alone one around one of the most revolutionary unique QBs in NFL history? One in which I would actually have to use my brain constantly rather than just do what I have been doing for decades?"

"Let's face it.. I'm an old dog and can't and won't do new tricks"

"Tebow has to adapt to me.. because I can't and won't adapt to him.. that's his problem not mine.. no matter how successful he might be if I actually knew what I was doing"

"Sure.. I could let McCoy run McD's system.. but that will make my defense look bad. Then I am in jeopardy of being fired if things go bad"

Is Elway going to say this?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/022g3XkgeFeqL/350x.jpg

"I'm like Fox.. I have ZERO experience. It's tough enough for me to just a build a team in a style I am accustomed to.. let alone trying to adapt to what McD was going to do with Tebow. And besides... if I do that then I am wasting the very thing that makes me an asset to this organization"

"So the best bet would be to trade Tebow since I am unwilling to adapt to him.. but what if he goes somewhere where the new organization can adapt to him and he dominates? And what if the Broncos still suck then? Then we all get fired and my career is over"

"It's much safer to just ignore the whole TEBOW THING and let him rot on the bench and hope the whole problem just goes away."

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 02:19 AM
Most long time fans saw the writing on the wall. Fox will play Orton until its shown he is a bottom tier QB and not capable of big plays in the clutch. Once enough vets believe its time for Tebow, and Orton is say 1-4 1-6 something like that, he will make the move.

Why its smart.

1- you get enough vets behind you to quiet a few like Lloyd
2- you get a throw away yr where you can say you were evaluating qbs
3- you still have enough games top see if Tebow a gamer, and decide what type off guys he needs, what type off offense he could run

in the meantime you have scored on von miller and the defense overall seems a little better.

Tebow will start by week 8 at the latest IMO.

I think that's possible.

I'm starting to come around on the way that these guys are handling the team though.

I have been watching every snap of the OL on DVR every week. They are starting to become a competitive unit who gets alot of stuff accomplished in the trenches. The running game is actually starting to get revved up. We forget that these guys didnt have an offseason with this new coach and this new system with a new focus on the run game. The OL and the run game are getting better every week. Pass blocking is already fantastic...even with a rookie RT who is trying to improve pass blocking.

The draft was a complete success and was the type of draft that we had in 2006...the kind of draft that can change a franchise for 10 years. Von Miller is already arguably the best SLB in the game, and is being used in a way that rookies are rarely used...he gets moved all around the field to present matchup problems. Franklin and Moore are already above-average rookie starters. Thomas and Virgil Green are both surprisingly good. Quentin Carter is getting some minutes.

Bunkley was a score. McGahee is an improvement over Moreno (though not a long-term solution as a primary back).

The wins arent coming yet, but I'm starting to get a little more comfortable with the way they are going about developing the franchise.

With a good draft next season addressing a couple or a few of MLB, CB, RB, DT, and/or DE, the Broncos are well on their way to being competitive for a long time.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 02:21 AM
If only we could take them at their word...

I think that its looking more and more like Elway doesn't want to throw Tebow to the dogs and have the kind of experience he did as a rookie when there is another alternative route to take.

NUB
10-08-2011, 02:25 AM
We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow

This is an interesting quote, the emphasis being on "first round". Sounds like he is trying to ward off the QB-talk for the QB-heavy draft coming up. I really would prefer Denver to draft a lot of defense in the coming draft, early and often, but it's hard to shake the feeling that Tebow will be dumped in the QB bonanza come April no matter what they say (right now).

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 02:29 AM
I think that its looking more and more like Elway doesn't want to throw Tebow to the dogs and have the kind of experience he did as a rookie when there is another alternative route to take.

Why would they let negative things be said about TT though? Why would they say he was going to be the starter then let it be said he is fourth string?

I don't even see them making any effort to develop TT. If there is some effort to do this why don't they let this be known.. this would quiet the demand to let him play.

Instead we just hear really ugly rumors.. even claiming TT hasn't worked hard enough.. which is just preposterous.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 02:30 AM
This is an interesting quote, the emphasis being on "first round". Sounds like he is trying to ward off the QB-talk for the QB-heavy draft coming up. I really would prefer Denver to draft a lot of defense in the coming draft, early and often, but it's hard to shake the feeling that Tebow will be dumped in the QB bonanza come April no matter what they say (right now).

There really isn't a QB bonanza. Its Luck and then not a whole lot.

The only other guy I see getting possibly picked up around where Denver will have a pick is Robert Griffin, and I just dont see Denver trading what is schematically Tim Tebow for Tim Tebow and then committing time to developing that Tim Tebow.

As a huge OU fan, I can tell you that Landry Jones will probably not be as high as he is rated right now the closer that we get to the draft. Robert Griffin will rise.

Denver has too many needs to waste their biggest asset for next season on a player that they will have to sit on the bench to develop just like they are doing with Tebow.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 02:31 AM
Why would they let negative things be said about TT though? Why would they say he was going to be the starter then let it be said he is fourth string?

To take pressure off.

The same kind of pressure that bothered Elway early on.

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 02:35 AM
To take pressure off.

The same kind of pressure that bothered Elway early on.

This completely contradicts what Elway said about damaging his confidence though. Elway said when your confidence is damaged it can be impossible to get it back.. putting him at 4th string does exactly that.. Playing him for one down and not again does the same thing..

I don't see how saying he stinks takes pressure off him.. if anything it puts MORE pressure on him. People had been saying Tebow stunk ever since he left college. That is why he had so much pressure coming out of college to prove himself.

All of this damages his ability to lead as well.. which was his greatest attribute..

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 02:40 AM
This completely contradicts what Elway said about damaging his confidence though. Elway said when your confidence is damaged it can be impossible to get it back.. putting him at 4th string does exactly that.. Playing him for one down and not again does the same thing..

I don't see how saying he stinks takes pressure off him.. if anything it puts MORE pressure on him. People had been saying Tebow stunk ever since he left college. That is why he had so much pressure coming out of college to prove himself.

All of this damages his ability to lead as well.. which was his greatest attribute..

Elway never said that "Tebow stinks". People can be clumsy with public statements and manipulating the press to communicate what they intend to to a larger audience. Elway could have just been trying to get them to focus their attention on other parts of the team as much as he could.

Elway tried to trade Orton. That says all you need to know about which QB that he wanted.

Dagmar
10-08-2011, 03:42 AM
I like the thread and the positivity (if you ignore MacG). I absolutely hope and pray Tebow starts next year because it means we can focus ALL on D, maybe a RB somewhere like the 4th. MLB, DT, secondary.

I agree with cut though, the winds keep blowing towards a change at QB, the city is gnashing it's teeth at Orton and EFX and if he doesn't play a perfect game, if he makes any mistakes the calls will be louder and louder and louder, eventually they'll have to be addressed in a serious way.

Drek
10-08-2011, 03:52 AM
Why would they let negative things be said about TT though? Why would they say he was going to be the starter then let it be said he is fourth string?

I don't even see them making any effort to develop TT. If there is some effort to do this why don't they let this be known.. this would quiet the demand to let him play.

Instead we just hear really ugly rumors.. even claiming TT hasn't worked hard enough.. which is just preposterous.
It is quite obvious that this Broncos FO above all else is incredibly bad at PR management. They do not control the dialogue in the media like they should. They likely did not realize what they were doing up to this point.

That is my one problem with John Fox's statement. This should have been told to the Denver media repeatedly from day one of camp. Make it clear to everyone that they see Tebow as the future, but just not the now. It doesn't matter from a fan and media perspective if Elway and Fox do buy into Tebow, they need to make it a clear, public statement to that effect otherwise you get a **** storm.

If fans knew that Tebow was going to get a legit shot and that right now Fox is just trying to represent as strongly as he can out of the gate he and Elway would get FAR more leverage with the fans.

They need to take a lesson from the previous guy. He failed to control the media discourse with this team and never gave the fans anything more than played out football cliches for why things happened. How quickly did the fans turn on him and play a key role in ousting him?

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 04:26 AM
It is quite obvious that this Broncos FO above all else is incredibly bad at PR management. They do not control the dialogue in the media like they should. They likely did not realize what they were doing up to this point.

The thing that worries me is that we have been hearing negative rumors coming from the Broncos brain trust from day one when Elway took over. He says TT isn't a QB.. Peter King says Elway isn't high on Tebow... says they don't have TT in their future plans.. Elway says they need to look at other QBs in the draft.. says they are "going forward with TT" when they can't find a better QB. Then TT is supposedly fourth string after one bad day of practice to start training camp. The guy who broke the news about TT being 4th string is supposedly a journalist who has ties to Elway from the old days. Elway says "I'd never give up on Tebow"

I just find it hard to believe they could handle the situation this poorly on accident.. Is it tough love for TT's sake? Is it trying to stop locker room drama and help Orton be successful now?

I honestly can't see Fox letting Orton go. I think if Fox had his way Orton would be his guy for several years and he'd have 5 or 6 years to develop Tebow into Orton 2.0. I think Elway would choose the same.. that is just my read.

IF they were serious about Tebow I think they would be doing things to develop and hype him the way Carolina did with Cam this off season.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-08-2011, 04:34 AM
"We had an open competition."

"Also, this isn't me pissing on your leg. It's just raining."

fontaine
10-08-2011, 04:50 AM
"My job on Sunday is to manage the game as the head coach. The coordinators will be in charge of offense, defense, special teams. It's fair to say that during the week, I will be fully involved in the game-planning, and the majority of time I will be working with the defense on what my defenses have been (many similarities to the old Buddy Ryan '46' defense) and the creative defenses Dennis brings."

Fox announced he will be switching the defense back to a 4-3, but it will have several variations, and he will be returning to Mike Shanahan​'s zone- blocking schemes, with several power- blocking variations — because of the bigger, stronger offensive linemen the Broncos now possess.

And, in regard to the starting quarterback, Fox said he will "get input" from McCoy, quarterbacks coach Adam Gaze and executive vice president John Elway​, but, ultimately, "the final decision is the head coach's."


Read more: Paige: Broncos coach John Fox wants "gamer" as his quarterback - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18434431?source=rss#ixzz1aBqgzafp
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Like I've been saying, it's not as easy as saying Fox is a stubborn or incompetent coach. He's defense first and foremost and I think it's up to Gase/McCoy to put in the work with Tebow to get it done.

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 04:56 AM
Like I've been saying, it's not as easy as saying Fox is a stubborn or incompetent coach. He's defense first and foremost and I think it's up to Gase/McCoy to put in the work with Tebow to get it done.

True.. but McCoy has to work only within the constraints Fox has created for the offense. To Fox, the only purpose of the offense is to work in a supportive fashion for the defense.. and to not lose the game rather that trying to win it.

It seems to me Elway chose Fox exactly because he knew Orton would be so ideal in Fox's system..

Elway got a coach tailor made for Orton's abilities and style (Quinn's too) and HORRIBLY suited to Tebow's style.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-08-2011, 05:00 AM
There was no competition. Why does he use this line? Why doesn't someone in the media call him out on this? I can live with "Orton's the starter because I said so." I might even be able to live with "Orton's the starter because we were clowned by Miami and Orton's existing contract." But this notion of an open competition is just an outright lie.

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 05:25 AM
There was no competition. Why does he use this line? Why doesn't someone in the media call him out on this? I can live with "Orton's the starter because I said so." I might even be able to live with "Orton's the starter because we were clowned by Miami and Orton's existing contract." But this notion of an open competition is just an outright lie.

It's easy to rationalize that there was an open competition though because Fox can always say he was looking for skills Tebow doesn't possess..

fox and Elway both want a guy who plays in the pocket.. Fox wants someone great with the play action run game.

To Fox it's an open compeition but it's Tebow's fault becasue he has no chance competing in Fox's offense. There was an article where McCoy laid out how the Qbs were supposed to play and Tebow's strengths and weaknesses were the complete opposite.

What I wonder is why the media never brings up the fact that Fox has no chance of adapting to Tebow's style of play. Most NFL coaches don't and Fox is probably the worst.

TonyR
10-08-2011, 05:59 AM
If only we could take them at their word...

What is Fox going to say?

Yup, exactly. Foolish too read much into what he said.

oubronco
10-08-2011, 06:11 AM
Suck for Luck in full swing

TheReverend
10-08-2011, 06:34 AM
There was no competition. Why does he use this line? Why doesn't someone in the media call him out on this? I can live with "Orton's the starter because I said so." I might even be able to live with "Orton's the starter because we were clowned by Miami and Orton's existing contract." But this notion of an open competition is just an outright lie.

That

gunns
10-08-2011, 06:43 AM
If only we could take them at their word...

What is Fox going to say?

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2011/0116/20110116__Jfox011611a~p1_200.jpg

"I suck as a coach and have no idea how to craft a good offense let alone one around one of the most revolutionary unique QBs in NFL history? One in which I would actually have to use my brain constantly rather than just do what I have been doing for decades?"

"Let's face it.. I'm an old dog and can't and won't do new tricks"

"Tebow has to adapt to me.. because I can't and won't adapt to him.. that's his problem not mine.. no matter how successful he might be if I actually knew what I was doing"

"Sure.. I could let McCoy run McD's system.. but that will make my defense look bad. Then I am in jeopardy of being fired if things go bad"

Is Elway going to say this?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/022g3XkgeFeqL/350x.jpg

"I'm like Fox.. I have ZERO experience. It's tough enough for me to just a build a team in a style I am accustomed to.. let alone trying to adapt to what McD was going to do with Tebow. And besides... if I do that then I am wasting the very thing that makes me an asset to this organization"

"So the best bet would be to trade Tebow since I am unwilling to adapt to him.. but what if he goes somewhere where the new organization can adapt to him and he dominates? And what if the Broncos still suck then? Then we all get fired and my career is over"

"It's much safer to just ignore the whole TEBOW THING and let him rot on the bench and hope the whole problem just goes away."


<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/temper tantrum/upyourstruly/tantrum.gif?o=3" target="_blank"><img src="http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/tantrum.gif" border="0"></a>

Rohirrim
10-08-2011, 06:48 AM
John Fox:

"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day."

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19059921#ixzz1aB67lOyP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a meaty bit of info there.

Fox explicitly stated that he believes in Tebow, and that he specifically believes that Tebow is going to be an excellent QB.

He also said that Tebow is getting better.

So if Fox believes that Tebow will be an excellent QB, and that he is getting better by the day, then the obvious conclusion is that Fox believes that the QB position is locked up long term with Tebow.

I think that we all can use this quote to take it easier on Orton. Its becoming apparent that the Broncos are protecting Tebow. They believe that they have the luxury of developing Tebow in a way that makes him more efficient in the offense in the long term.

I'd love to see the Broncos get a compensatory pick for Orton.

Where does it say that Tebow starts next year?

rbackfactory80
10-08-2011, 06:48 AM
I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to believe this. You have to be in the bottom 1 percent of all humans to conclude after hearing this that Tebow would be our starter and the FO is behind him.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 06:59 AM
I can't believe anyone would be dumb enough to believe this. You have to be in the bottom 1 percent of all humans to conclude after hearing this that Tebow would be our starter and the FO is behind him.

Fantastic contribution.

Arent you one of those guys who runs around here with hearts and Andrew Luck in their eyes?

zdoor
10-08-2011, 07:03 AM
Sounds like coach speak to me. Not sure you can get anything out of that quote with any certainty.

elsid13
10-08-2011, 07:04 AM
Where does it say that Tebow starts next year?

It doesn't but the Tebownuts are grasping at anything the days.

rbackfactory80
10-08-2011, 07:04 AM
Fantastic contribution.

Arent you one of those guys who runs around here with hearts and Andrew Luck in their eyes?

Give me a break. You run around here with you high and mighty attitude and then post drivel like this.

Actions speak louder than words. Coach speak 101.

Jetmeck
10-08-2011, 07:20 AM
Next week we will be back to Orton gives the best chance to win BS.

These guys make no sense.

Rohirrim
10-08-2011, 07:23 AM
Fantastic contribution.

Arent you one of those guys who runs around here with hearts and Andrew Luck in their eyes?

You named the thread, "Tim Tebow Will Start For the Denver Broncos Next Season."

Where does it say that?

Gort
10-08-2011, 07:37 AM
John Fox:

"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day."

are there any photos from behind... just like to know if he was crossing his fingers behind his back or not. ;)

Broncoman13
10-08-2011, 07:51 AM
Pretty big jump to say Tebow is going to be the starter next year after after one comment. They talked about this Fox quote on local radio quite a bit. The consensus was, its just coach speak. I hope they will give Tebow a shot.

But for all the talk about the draft next year, there is one thing that is certain. Right now it takes a strong passing game to be a premiere team in the NFL. The way the rules are now, the old NFL is out. Defenses are no longer able to consistently dominate games. Run games are no longer the answer either. In fact, of the top rushing teams last year, the only team that made the playoffs was the Chiefs... And that didn't go so well for them. Stud passing game with three and four receivers, a Sharpe-like TE, and a RB that can create mismatches in the passing game is the key. The good news, we have the receivers, we likely have the TE, and Moreno can be that type of RB as his strength is definitely in the passing game. Still, I think another RB, ideally with great speed would really help. Shanny was on his way to achieving that... In fact, he was a RB shy of having completed that on offense. The biggest question I have right now is can Tebow be a QB that can complete enough passes to make an offense like that work. I figure it will take a 60%+ comp. %... Not sure if Tebow is that guy, but I sure hope he is! The second biggest question, can Fox evolve to today's style NFL.

Right now, the perfect scenario would be for Tebow to be that guy, high completion percentage and able to take advantage of all of our weapons on offense. Then you could draft defense in the first and second and get your speed back in the third. I would love to get a guy like James or Demps in next year's draft. James has the potential to be an everydown back, and he can give you that Darren Sproles, Reggie Bush, Danny Woodhead like threat.

If Tebow can't be that high pct. guy, and we are drafting pretty high, sell out to get Luck. It takes a premiere QB to take advantage of today's NFL.

Dedhed
10-08-2011, 07:53 AM
Most long time fans saw the writing on the wall. Fox will play Orton until its shown he is a bottom tier QB and not capable of big plays in the clutch. Once enough vets believe its time for Tebow, and Orton is say 1-4 1-6 something like that, he will make the move.

Why its smart.

1- you get enough vets behind you to quiet a few like Lloyd
2- you get a throw away yr where you can say you were evaluating qbs
3- you still have enough games top see if Tebow a gamer, and decide what type off guys he needs, what type off offense he could run

in the meantime you have scored on von miller and the defense overall seems a little better.

Tebow will start by week 8 at the latest IMO.This is the core of my last hope. All of this makes a little sense in the light of removing any pressure from Tebow to perform this year. If Orton is 1-6 and the media just loves what he brings to the position, they won't be able to bash Tebow for winning 3 games down the stretch.

That said, I disagree with the approach because I don't think Tebow needs that kind of protection. This team was better with him as the starter last year, and I think we'd be at least 2-2 right now with him.

There is always going to be a circus around Tebow, there always has been, and I think that people like Fox and Elway (and Team mates) are unnerved by the attention he garners. However, I don't think that Tebow himself is unnerved by it; he's dealt with it all his life, and performed admirably at every stop.

Everyone knows the expectations are going to be off the charts for Tebow, and I could see where that makes people nervous or to want to shield him from the expectations. I don't think it's needed. Tebow is one of those people who's own expectations are always going to be higher than even absurd expectations from the outside world. He is used to the scrutiny that very few other people ever get. He can handle it.

I don't think the rest of the team is ready for it, I honestly don't, but they will be eventually and when they are it will work in their favor.

go_broncos
10-08-2011, 08:03 AM
John Fox:

"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day."

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19059921#ixzz1aB67lOyP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a meaty bit of info there.

Fox explicitly stated that he believes in Tebow, and that he specifically believes that Tebow is going to be an excellent QB.

He also said that Tebow is getting better.

So if Fox believes that Tebow will be an excellent QB, and that he is getting better by the day, then the obvious conclusion is that Fox believes that the QB position is locked up long term with Tebow.

I think that we all can use this quote to take it easier on Orton. Its becoming apparent that the Broncos are protecting Tebow. They believe that they have the luxury of developing Tebow in a way that makes him more efficient in the offense in the long term.

I'd love to see the Broncos get a compensatory pick for Orton.

I don't believe in EFX..They told Tebow is starting QB this year at one point.
Anyone that believes in their words are more dumb than Mcd.

That One Guy
10-08-2011, 08:17 AM
So... Am I the only one that envisions Tebow not getting a chance if they truly want a new QB? If Tebow is detrimental long term, why would they give the fans a few flashes for the ordinary fan to grab and claim success? If they're set on getting Luck, any Tebow success just makes trading a draft away or using the #1 overall a more frustrating experience for the very vocal Tebow crowd. If we get a quality QB, the next soundbite goes something like "things just didn't develop quite as fast as we would've liked... " and the fans really never know better.

Inkana7
10-08-2011, 08:58 AM
I don't believe in EFX..They told Tebow is starting QB this year at one point.
Anyone that believes in their words are more dumb than Mcd.

You sound like a crying child.

vonqkilla
10-08-2011, 09:13 AM
Reading way to much into it. He was just answering a question by restating facts and giving him a mild endorsement.

GreatBronco16
10-08-2011, 09:55 AM
I'll believe it when I see it. Otherwise, this is just a fluff piece of the FO and Fox trying to cover up some of their other stupid quotes.

go_broncos
10-08-2011, 10:03 AM
You sound like a crying child.

Well..I am telling the facts.
if you want to be fooled, believe everything what they say.

Requiem
10-08-2011, 10:20 AM
There really isn't a QB bonanza. Its Luck and then not a whole lot.

Wrong. This class will be stacked with pro-level talent with junior declarations.

Wes Mantooth
10-08-2011, 10:24 AM
He would be starting now if he was good enough. Rest is speculation based on nothing.

Popps
10-08-2011, 10:25 AM
Wrong. This class will be stacked with pro-level talent with junior declarations.

Req, would love to see your early projection on where you think the top QBs will fall in the 1st (or 2nd?) round next year.

Miss I.
10-08-2011, 10:36 AM
John Fox:

"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day."

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19059921#ixzz1aB67lOyP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a meaty bit of info there.

Fox explicitly stated that he believes in Tebow, and that he specifically believes that Tebow is going to be an excellent QB.

He also said that Tebow is getting better.

So if Fox believes that Tebow will be an excellent QB, and that he is getting better by the day, then the obvious conclusion is that Fox believes that the QB position is locked up long term with Tebow.

I think that we all can use this quote to take it easier on Orton. Its becoming apparent that the Broncos are protecting Tebow. They believe that they have the luxury of developing Tebow in a way that makes him more efficient in the offense in the long term.

I'd love to see the Broncos get a compensatory pick for Orton.

No offense dude, but way to pick and choose what you emphasize. I went to read the whole article. In no way does Fox say Tebow will be starting QB next season. He very carefully avoids that. He talks about using Tim in specific offensive run packages, but he is definitely NOT saying Tebow is the starter next year.

And here's the full section you selectively cut and paste:
"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day. But we had an open competition, all right. Kyle Orton was named the starter. . . . There might be noise on the outside. Our locker room is very comfortable with where we are. Not so much (with the) record, but where we are moving forward at all positions, not just the quarterback position."
Although the loose talk in Denver is that Fox will make a move at quarterback if the Broncos fall to the Chargers and are 1-4 at the bye week, the coach doesn't sound like he will."


and he also says the following:
"I asked coach John Fox earlier this week if he put Tebow in the game just paraphrasing here to appease fans who had been calling for Tebow.
"I mean, No. 1, Tim Tebow is not our starting quarterback, all right," the coach said. "He was in our first (scripted) 15 plays, and there's an element of Tim playing quarterback in a type of offense in that position that can be beneficial to the Broncos. . . . It could be the run game . .


Read more: Paige: Broncos' Tim Tebow silently watches tempest - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19059921#ixzz1aDFOgfrn
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse


I'd like to see Tebow play, but I do not see this article as giving any indication when or if Tebow will be starting QB.

Bronx33
10-08-2011, 10:42 AM
This completely contradicts what Elway said about damaging his confidence though. Elway said when your confidence is damaged it can be impossible to get it back.. putting him at 4th string does exactly that.. Playing him for one down and not again does the same thing..

I don't see how saying he stinks takes pressure off him.. if anything it puts MORE pressure on him. People had been saying Tebow stunk ever since he left college. That is why he had so much pressure coming out of college to prove himself.

All of this damages his ability to lead as well.. which was his greatest attribute..


You're an excuse machine. ROFL!

baja
10-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Most long time fans saw the writing on the wall. Fox will play Orton until its shown he is a bottom tier QB and not capable of big plays in the clutch. Once enough vets believe its time for Tebow, and Orton is say 1-4 1-6 something like that, he will make the move.

Why its smart.

1- you get enough vets behind you to quiet a few like Lloyd
2- you get a throw away yr where you can say you were evaluating qbs
3- you still have enough games top see if Tebow a gamer, and decide what type off guys he needs, what type off offense he could run

in the meantime you have scored on von miller and the defense overall seems a little better.

Tebow will start by week 8 at the latest IMO.

How can you be so perceptive on the main board and so dense in the WPR forum? ;D

Requiem
10-08-2011, 11:05 AM
Req, would love to see your early projection on where you think the top QBs will fall in the 1st (or 2nd?) round next year.

Absolutely. Sorry if this gets a little long-winded:

Elite Tier

Andrew Luck is obviously going to be the #1 selection, unless a team like the Rams is picking.

First Tier

Matt Barkley would be my second rated quarterback. He has continuously improved since he was a Freshman and runs a very sophisticated pro-style offense that will have him prepared for the NFL. A coaching change and losing NFL talent included, and he has still accomplished quite a bit. He is an accurate passer and good on the move. I see him throw off his back foot way too much, but that can be changed in time. He is not on Luck's level but should develop into a very good NFL quarterback. He is easily a top ten talent.

Landry Jones will probably go around the same area Christian Ponder went last year, but he doesn't deserve to (and neither did Christian). Jones has an All-Star cast on his team and puts up incredible numbers. He is also an incredible risk taker, which is probably his biggest flaw as a quarterback, but is a very accurate thrower outside the risks. I don't think he will be a very good professional quarterback unless he can minimize his mistakes. Typical case of a system QB who will have trouble commanding an offense in the NFL, though people are going to fall in love with his size and numbers. Top 25 Talent.

Robert Griffin III is an interesting dynamic. Extremely athletic, an accurate passer and one of the most intelligent quarterbacks to play college football. Graduated with his degree in Political Science in 3 years and is law school bound if he so chooses. If Cam Newton can succeed in the NFL, there is no doubt RGIII can. I don't think he is a first-round quarterback, but he is certainly a first-rate talent. He has an unmatched scrambling ability in this class and is a dual threat because of his rushing talents. He will cause problems for NFL defenses due to his immense talents. He is a winner and easily a Top 40 talent.

Second Tier

In the second tier is where you get the Seniors this year: Nick Foles (Arizona) Ryan Tannehill (Texas A&M) and Kirk Cousins (Michigan State). These are guys who have second round potential for sure. I have even seen some people thinking Foles or Tannehill could hit the first round if they keep performing well.

Right there is seven guys who have the shot to lead an NFL offense and there are several other quarterbacks who at least would be serviceable back-ups. I think this class (with junior declarations) has a lot of potential.

TheReverend
10-08-2011, 11:12 AM
^ I'm still not ready to buy the Griffin hype. Great season so far, but he's going to need to return for a senior year to qualify being in the same sentence as Jones and Barkley... who both have their glaring flaws as well.

OABB
10-08-2011, 11:15 AM
andrew luck is a once in a generation player. like reggie bush a few years ago. generations are getting shorter btw. saw it in readers digest.

peacepipe
10-08-2011, 11:15 AM
^ I'm still not ready to buy the Griffin hype. Great season so far, but he's going to need to return for a senior year to qualify being in the same sentence as Jones and Barkley... who both have their glaring flaws as well.

when a running QB proves he can win a SB i'll buy in until then, no chance.

Requiem
10-08-2011, 11:16 AM
^ I'm still not ready to buy the Griffin hype. Great season so far, but he's going to need to return for a senior year to qualify being in the same sentence as Jones and Barkley... who both have their glaring flaws as well.

Cam Newton's success in the NFL after such limited time and experience at QB makes me believe Griffin, someone who is more experienced and has very good athletic ability can make it too.

TheReverend
10-08-2011, 11:44 AM
Cam Newton's success in the NFL after such limited time and experience at QB makes me believe Griffin, someone who is more experienced and has very good athletic ability can make it too.

I don't disagree... and he's having a lightning in a bottle season so far.

...but the season's just begun and he's also much smaller than Cam and lacking that portion of measurables

Mogulseeker
10-08-2011, 12:06 PM
John Fox:

"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day."

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19059921#ixzz1aB67lOyP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a meaty bit of info there.

Fox explicitly stated that he believes in Tebow, and that he specifically believes that Tebow is going to be an excellent QB.

He also said that Tebow is getting better.

So if Fox believes that Tebow will be an excellent QB, and that he is getting better by the day, then the obvious conclusion is that Fox believes that the QB position is locked up long term with Tebow.

I think that we all can use this quote to take it easier on Orton. Its becoming apparent that the Broncos are protecting Tebow. They believe that they have the luxury of developing Tebow in a way that makes him more efficient in the offense in the long term.

I'd love to see the Broncos get a compensatory pick for Orton.

I was ecstatic when I heard that the Broncos were talking a second for Orton. Maybe we can pull off a third at the trade deadline. IDK. Lets just keep Orton in there this week, heading into the bye.

Throwing Tebow in there without a full offseason would really hurt his development. If the Broncos are 1-4 headed into the bye, by all means lets give Tebow as many reps through the bye and throw him in there.

Get a corner, center, and maybe a RB in the first day of the drat next year.

Tom G
10-08-2011, 01:03 PM
...But for all the talk about the draft next year, there is one thing that is certain. Right now it takes a strong passing game to be a premiere team in the NFL. The way the rules are now, the old NFL is out....

...Stud passing game with three and four receivers, a Sharpe-like TE, and a RB that can create mismatches in the passing game is the key. The good news, we have the receivers, we likely have the TE, and Moreno can be that type of RB as his strength is definitely in the passing game....

...The biggest question I have right now is can Tebow be a QB that can complete enough passes to make an offense like that work. I figure it will take a 60%+ comp. %... Not sure if Tebow is that guy, but I sure hope he is!...

I don't understand all this talk about Tebow being just a running QB and being an inaccurate passer. He holds all the SEC career passing records. His SEC career passing percentage is over 67%, his TD/INT ratio is 88/15, and his yards per attempt is over 8 yds per try, all better then both Mannings, Stafford, Cutler and all the other hot shot QB s who played in the SEC, arguably the best conference in the country.

If the comments were that he doesn't have experiencence as a drop back passer, and adjusting to 3,5, and 7 step drop mechanics has him thinking about those rather than where his receivers are, and therefore his passing accuracy sucks in practice and preseason games so far, OK, I can get with that. But not being basically accurate? That's simply not his lifetime legacy.

And come on, he's a freak of an athlete. I can't believe that adjusting to being a drop back passer will be that tough for him.

Just saying.

cutthemdown
10-08-2011, 01:11 PM
How can you be so perceptive on the main board and so dense in the WPR forum? ;D

Well it's not an easy solution but the equation goes something like this.

Smart ass * thinks he knows it all + you are the same way
whole room thinks its pretty ****ing smart

Mogulseeker
10-08-2011, 01:12 PM
I don't understand all this talk about Tebow being just a running QB and being an inaccurate passer. He holds all the SEC career passing records. His SEC career passing percentage is over 67%, his TD/INT ratio is 88/15, and his yards per attempt is over 8 yds per try, all better then both Mannings, Stafford, Cutler and all the other hot shot QB s who played in the SEC, arguably the best conference in the country.

If the comments were that he doesn't have experiencence as a drop back passer, and adjusting to 3,5, and 7 step drop mechanics has him thinking about those rather than where his receivers are, and therefore his passing accuracy sucks in practice and preseason games so far, OK, I can get with that. But not being basically accurate? That's simply not his lifetime legacy.

And come on, he's a freak of an athlete. I can't believe that adjusting to being a drop back passer will be that tough for him.

Just saying.

I agree on some levels, but...

He didn't play in a pro-style offense. The window to throw (both time and space) is much smaller in the NFL. Passes that would have been TDs in the NCAA turn into sacks at the NFL level. That's why people are high on Luck - he has the composure and quickness that fits an NFL-style offense.

I'm not saying Tebow can't adjust. I'm just saying he's in a different world now. And yeah, I think he can be good... Rodgers' was a scrambling QB that had throwing motion problems coming out of college, too, and the Pack waited till he was ready.

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 03:59 PM
I agree on some levels, but...

He didn't play in a pro-style offense. The window to throw (both time and space) is much smaller in the NFL. Passes that would have been TDs in the NCAA turn into sacks at the NFL level. That's why people are high on Luck - he has the composure and quickness that fits an NFL-style offense.

I'm not saying Tebow can't adjust. I'm just saying he's in a different world now. And yeah, I think he can be good... Rodgers' was a scrambling QB that had throwing motion problems coming out of college, too, and the Pack waited till he was ready.

Tebow's accuracy was never an issue UNTIL he had his motion messed with.. which many said wasn't necessary.

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 04:07 PM
He would be starting now if he was good enough. Rest is speculation based on nothing.

Mike Vick was beat by Kolb in training camp according to their coaches and in the first game he replaced Kolb outplayed him and nearly won MVP that season. Practice is a horrible indicator of ability in games.

People want to say Tebow's college performance doesn't matter, nor actual games last season where Tebow outplayed Orton, then give Orton the job based on non contact practices? I can't imagine more absurd logic.

Tombstone RJ
10-08-2011, 04:20 PM
John Fox:

"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day."

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19059921#ixzz1aB67lOyP

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a meaty bit of info there.

Fox explicitly stated that he believes in Tebow, and that he specifically believes that Tebow is going to be an excellent QB.

He also said that Tebow is getting better.

So if Fox believes that Tebow will be an excellent QB, and that he is getting better by the day, then the obvious conclusion is that Fox believes that the QB position is locked up long term with Tebow.

I think that we all can use this quote to take it easier on Orton. Its becoming apparent that the Broncos are protecting Tebow. They believe that they have the luxury of developing Tebow in a way that makes him more efficient in the offense in the long term.

I'd love to see the Broncos get a compensatory pick for Orton.

I hope this is true. I've stated in the past I think Tebow will start once the Broncos are mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs. The reason I think this will happen is because the locker room demands that the vet with the most experience leads the team and this is why Fox continues to preach "QB with best chance of winning." However, once the Broncos are functionally castrated from the playoffs then Fox can justifiable play Tebow because he's the future.

oldschoolorange
10-08-2011, 05:41 PM
Did not see the link to the actual interview posted so here it is:

http://wpc.31d2.edgecastcdn.net/8031D2/xxsportsl/common/global_audio/40/36240.mp3

BTW, while he did say he believed Tebow would be a good quarterback in the NFL, he never said he would start for the Broncos next year.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 06:57 PM
No offense dude, but way to pick and choose what you emphasize. I went to read the whole article. In no way does Fox say Tebow will be starting QB next season. He very carefully avoids that. He talks about using Tim in specific offensive run packages, but he is definitely NOT saying Tebow is the starter next year.

And here's the full section you selectively cut and paste:
"During his conference call with San Diego media this week, in response to a question about the Broncos' quarterback controversy, Fox replied: "We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day. But we had an open competition, all right. Kyle Orton was named the starter. . . . There might be noise on the outside. Our locker room is very comfortable with where we are. Not so much (with the) record, but where we are moving forward at all positions, not just the quarterback position."
Although the loose talk in Denver is that Fox will make a move at quarterback if the Broncos fall to the Chargers and are 1-4 at the bye week, the coach doesn't sound like he will."


and he also says the following:
"I asked coach John Fox earlier this week if he put Tebow in the game just paraphrasing here to appease fans who had been calling for Tebow.
"I mean, No. 1, Tim Tebow is not our starting quarterback, all right," the coach said. "He was in our first (scripted) 15 plays, and there's an element of Tim playing quarterback in a type of offense in that position that can be beneficial to the Broncos. . . . It could be the run game . .


Read more: Paige: Broncos' Tim Tebow silently watches tempest - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_19059921#ixzz1aDFOgfrn
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse


I'd like to see Tebow play, but I do not see this article as giving any indication when or if Tebow will be starting QB.

We'll see, won't we?

Miss I.
10-08-2011, 06:59 PM
We'll see, won't we?

indeed.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 06:59 PM
I don't understand all this talk about Tebow being just a running QB and being an inaccurate passer. He holds all the SEC career passing records. His SEC career passing percentage is over 67%, his TD/INT ratio is 88/15, and his yards per attempt is over 8 yds per try, all better then both Mannings, Stafford, Cutler and all the other hot shot QB s who played in the SEC, arguably the best conference in the country.

If the comments were that he doesn't have experiencence as a drop back passer, and adjusting to 3,5, and 7 step drop mechanics has him thinking about those rather than where his receivers are, and therefore his passing accuracy sucks in practice and preseason games so far, OK, I can get with that. But not being basically accurate? That's simply not his lifetime legacy.

And come on, he's a freak of an athlete. I can't believe that adjusting to being a drop back passer will be that tough for him.

Just saying.


Tebow is so polarizing that people literally ignore the facts to suit their arguments.

DenverBrit
10-08-2011, 07:00 PM
Tebow won't start until Orton loses the locker room, and only if his contact escalators don't kick in.

Watching Eddie Mac on a pre-game show, he basically said that Tebow isn't ready as a pocket passer and Orton is the better QB on the team right now.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 07:06 PM
indeed.

I simply laid out a logical extension of Fox's own words in the original post and drew a conclusion.

That's why I posted the steps in logic. I could have posted the Aristotelian square of opposition for each important segment of that quote, but that probably wouldnt have accomplished what I had set out to do with this thread. Ha!

Fox explicitly stated that he 1) believes in Tebow long-term, 2) believes that Tebow will be a "heck of a quarterback", and 3) understands that the fans love him. The writing is on the wall. Management appears to be committed to Tebow.

This is a much more reasonable position based on what management has said and done rather than all of the wild and generally baseless speculation that Tebow will be traded or that Denver will trade their entire draft for the forseeable future for a QB in this draft.

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 07:14 PM
Tebow won't start until Orton loses the locker room, and only if his contact escalators don't kick in.

Watching Eddie Mac on a pre-game show, he basically said that Tebow isn't ready as a pocket passer and Orton is the better QB on the team right now.

Why did Tebow outplay him last year against the same opponents then?

gunns
10-08-2011, 07:23 PM
Wrong. This class will be stacked with pro-level talent with junior declarations.

Very much agree.

DenverBrit
10-08-2011, 07:27 PM
Why did Tebow outplay him last year against the same opponents then?

Ask the coaches, ask the players, watch the practices, go to meetings, watch the film,....then you'll have your answer.

rbackfactory80
10-08-2011, 07:30 PM
I simply laid out a logical extension of Fox's own words in the original post and drew a conclusion.

Fox explicitly stated that he 1) believes in Tebow long-term, 2) believes that Tebow will be a "heck of a quarterback", and 3) understands that the fans love him. The writing is on the wall. Management appears to be committed to Tebow.



What is he supposed to say? He can't slander his own player. It was his only option. Why you chose to make a big deal about it is beyond me.

Fox is a smart coach and to be a smart coach you must also be a politician. This is not his first rodeo.

Circle Orange
10-08-2011, 07:30 PM
You named the thread, "Tim Tebow Will Start For the Denver Broncos Next Season."

Where does it say that?

I was scratching my head about that, too.

Honestly, the braintrust needs to stop trying to appease everyone with these wild statements...from Tebowfans who love the guy madly to bronco fans who love the team...the media, and the lockerroom. Just pick one story and stick with it, for crying out loud. Or go wobble on the beach with the other jellyfish. http://scosoft.com/s/q/5feb68c6.gif

tsiguy96
10-08-2011, 07:31 PM
Tebow won't start until Orton loses the locker room, and only if his contact escalators don't kick in.

Watching Eddie Mac on a pre-game show, he basically said that Tebow isn't ready as a pocket passer and Orton is the better QB on the team right now.

this is the crazy thing to me, how can someone who has watched the QB play on this team the last 16 games or so say that?

DenverBrit
10-08-2011, 07:33 PM
Drama, fix your thread title with a "?" Then it will make some sense. ;)

DenverBrit
10-08-2011, 07:41 PM
this is the crazy thing to me, how can someone who has watched the QB play on this team the last 16 games or so say that?

They know something we don't?

Requiem
10-08-2011, 07:45 PM
I simply laid out a logical extension of Fox's own words in the original post and drew a conclusion.

You drew the conclusion you wanted out of his statements. Nowhere in his dialogue did he explicitly state that Tim was going to be our starter next year.

MacGruder
10-08-2011, 07:57 PM
Ask the coaches, ask the players, watch the practices, go to meetings, watch the film,....then you'll have your answer.

I don't need to do all that to know why... from what I have seen of the NFL and the bizarre Tebow saga it is about Tebow simply being different.. with that comes skepticism, jealousy and fear of the unknown.

It is truly amazing to me that in a sport that supposedly prides itself on manliness, toughness and courage it's full of a bunch of cry babies, whiners and chickens.

One thing we do know about football people and this goes from players to coaches.. they aren't the brightest bunch. The NFL is way behind the times from where they should be.. and Tebow is way ahead of the times.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 07:58 PM
Drama, fix your thread title with a "?" Then it will make some sense. ;)

I intended for it to be a statement. That's probably why I explained the reasoning. I guess I was asking too much for people to read anything besides the thread title. Ha!

DenverBrit
10-08-2011, 08:05 PM
I intended for it to be a statement. That's probably why I explained the reasoning. I guess I was asking too much for people to read anything besides the thread title. Ha!


You simply made up a title that was unsupported by the article.

Which is why a "?" is appropriate, instead of a statement of fact.

Requiem
10-08-2011, 08:05 PM
A statement that was nowhere in John Fox's comments. Another misguided thread title by the forum's biggest drama stooge.

Requiem
10-08-2011, 08:05 PM
You simply made up a title that was unsupported by the article.

Which is why a "?" is appropriate, instead of a statement of fact.

Which is more accurate:

Drama Llama is a fat ****.

Drama Llama is a fat ****?

DenverBrit
10-08-2011, 08:07 PM
That would depend upon his height and weight and the meaning of ****. ;)

Requiem
10-08-2011, 08:08 PM
That would depend upon his height and weight and the meaning of ****. ;)

The **** word rhymes with truck and if you put a PH in it you might be in Southeast Asia.

epicSocialism4tw
10-08-2011, 08:20 PM
You simply made up a title that was unsupported by the article.

Which is why a "?" is appropriate, instead of a statement of fact.

Goodness you're stupid.

DenverBrit
10-08-2011, 08:27 PM
Goodness you're stupid.


Drama translation: "I ****ed up, stop pointing it out."


You're so predictable! Hilarious!

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 02:55 AM
One thing I find funny is that Elway said at one time the fans want to win now.. this seemed to be his rationale for playing Orton over Tebow.. "because he gives us the best chance to win".

But it seems the fans overwhelmingly want Tebow to play now. So who is Elway really trying to please then?

Taco John
10-09-2011, 02:57 AM
Goodness you're stupid.

No I completely agree. Your thread title is jacked. There's absolutely nothing to support the wild leap you are making here. You're basically projecting what you hope and pretending - nothing more than pretending - that this is the message that John Fox or the Broncos are sending. It's kind of jacked up that you are attempting this. Maybe if you create a thread hard enough, you'll get the Broncos to go along with you or something?

I'd be embarrassed for this site that you started this thread except that there are so many people here wondering what in the hell you were even thinking.

Taco John
10-09-2011, 02:59 AM
One thing I find funny is that Elway said at one time the fans want to win now.. this seemed to be his rationale for playing Orton over Tebow.. "because he gives us the best chance to win".

But it seems the fans overwhelmingly want Tebow to play now. So who is Elway really trying to please then?

I think that the Broncos genuinely believe that Orton gives this team the best chance to win, and that wins will satisfy the fan base at large.

MacGruder
10-09-2011, 03:52 AM
I think that the Broncos genuinely believe that Orton gives this team the best chance to win, and that wins will satisfy the fan base at large.

I think that's misguided though because even if Orton wins we know he isn't leading the team anywhere. It's like beating a dead horse.. it's like staying in a relationship you both know is over.. and you don't even have fun together anymore. You even have Orton making comments that the fans don't know what they are talking about.

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 04:08 AM
No I completely agree. Your thread title is jacked. There's absolutely nothing to support the wild leap you are making here. You're basically projecting what you hope and pretending - nothing more than pretending - that this is the message that John Fox or the Broncos are sending. It's kind of jacked up that you are attempting this. Maybe if you create a thread hard enough, you'll get the Broncos to go along with you or something?

I'd be embarrassed for this site that you started this thread except that there are so many people here wondering what in the hell you were even thinking.

Quit being a drama queen.

Its pretty obvious where the conclusion can come from given what Fox said.

Throwing the idea out there and exploring it is what media people are supposed to do, and if Denver had any worth reading, they would have already explored this angle.

Maybe you should be embarrassed for them.

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 04:23 AM
Drama translation: "I ****ed up, stop pointing it out."

You're so predictable!

What's predictable is that subtlety is lost on you.

Broncoman13
10-09-2011, 05:52 AM
No I completely agree. Your thread title is jacked. There's absolutely nothing to support the wild leap you are making here. You're basically projecting what you hope and pretending - nothing more than pretending - that this is the message that John Fox or the Broncos are sending. It's kind of jacked up that you are attempting this. Maybe if you create a thread hard enough, you'll get the Broncos to go along with you or something?

I'd be embarrassed for this site that you started this thread except that there are so many people here wondering what in the hell you were even thinking.

I am more embarrassed of the "Elvis is on the Juice?" thread title. Imagine somebody googling Dumervil and that pops up in the search. Talk about a thread that makes a wild leap!

Tombstone RJ
10-09-2011, 08:15 AM
Why did Tebow outplay him last year against the same opponents then?

it was a different offense brosef. Tebow was much better prepared to start last year as apposed to this year. Quit being an idiot. please?

DenverBrit
10-09-2011, 08:57 AM
What's predictable is that subtlety is lost on you.

Yeah, that's the problem, you're too subtle. Ha!

Rohirrim
10-09-2011, 09:02 AM
Yeah, that's the problem, you're too subtle. Ha!

Hilarious!

Rohirrim
10-09-2011, 09:04 AM
"We've got a first-round draft pick in Tim Tebow that was a Heisman Trophy winner. Very popular. An outstanding young man. (He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time, and is getting better every day."

Here, drama llama. Let me translate that for you into human speech:

"Coach speak. Coach speak. Coach speak. Coach speak. Coach speak. Coach speak. Coach speak. Coach speak. Coach speak. Coach speak."

Requiem
10-09-2011, 09:51 AM
What's predictable is that subtlety is lost on you.

You got called out by the owner of the site for being a douche with your misleading posts.

This isn't the first, nor the last time it will happen.

You have a penchant for this and nobody is surprised by your tactics.

Have fun eating that 20 piece KFC feast by yourself today, fatso!

oubronco
10-09-2011, 10:11 AM
Luck will start for the Broncos next year!

Now that sounds great

AlphaSeirra
10-09-2011, 10:31 AM
Continue to play Boreton all season, for the 'best chance to win.'
Leave Tebow on the bench with NO 1st team practice time, and little to no QB game time.
After all, rookie Elway got better just sitting on the bench for Denver, same for rookie P.Manning with the Colts. Everyone knows that, right?

Then you can sell the entire donkey farm for a chance to get Lucky.

While you totally ignore:

Tebow set the SEC All Time QB Pass Efficiency Rating at 170.79
Tebow's Senior class set the SEC All Time Career W/L record at 48 - 7, (against 40 Bowl team opponents).
Tebow was the 1st Soph in NCAA History to win the Heisman.
Leak-Tebow/UF beat #1 Ranked tOSU with Heisman QB T.Smith 41 - 14 for the 2006 BCS-NC.
Tebow also won the Academic Heisman (Campbell Trophy).
Tebow/UF beat #1 Ranked Okla with Heisman QB Bradford 24 - 14 for the 2008 BCS-NC.

Tebow had the #1 NFL Rookie QB Passer rating in 2010, better than #1 Pick Bradford.
Tebow had the #1 Bronco QB PER in the 2011 preseason:
Tebow 108 PER, ZERO Ints, and with a 6.4 ypc rushing.
Orton 104 PER
Quinn 69 PER
To bad that he lost that 'FAIR' QB competition, huh?

Elway started as a rookie, not on the bench, 7 TD's to 14 Ints with a 50 something PER.
Manning started as a rookie, not on the bench and he set a new NFL Rookie QB Int Record while going 3-13.

But sinceTebow played WAY better as a rookie than either of them,
he obviously needs to be on the bench again in his 2nd season so that he can improve. WTF ??? ------------ Ha!

AlphaSeirra
10-09-2011, 10:39 AM
it was a different offense brosef. Tebow was much better prepared to start last year as apposed to this year. Quit being an idiot. please?

Yeah, everyone knows that, or they should.... Ha!

Tebow had the #1 NFL Rookie QB Passer rating (82.1) in 2010, better than #1 Pick Bradford, plus a 5.3 ypc with 6 rushing TD's.

Tebow had the #1 Bronco QB PER in the 2011 preseason:
Tebow 108 PER, ZERO Ints, and with a 6.4 ypc rushing.
Orton 104 PER
Quinn 69 PER

So:
2010 82.1 PER with a 5.3 ypc rushing.
2011 108 PER with a 6.4 ypc rushing.

So yep, Tim digressed in that shortened off season cause it's a different offense and he was on a book signing tour.... Hilarious!

DBroncos4life
10-09-2011, 10:41 AM
Same post over and over again, yeah he isn't Mac at all.

OABB
10-09-2011, 10:44 AM
Same post over and over again, yeah he isn't Mac at all.

It's a great quote. Funny to watch people ignore it.

oubronco
10-09-2011, 10:44 AM
Tebow had the #1 NFL Rookie QB Passer rating (82.1) in 2010, better than #1 Pick Bradford, plus a 5.3 ypc with 6 rushing TD's.


16 games to 3 games is not a fair assessment

jhildebrand
10-09-2011, 10:51 AM
It is quite obvious that this Broncos FO above all else is incredibly bad at PR management. They do not control the dialogue in the media like they should. They likely did not realize what they were doing up to this point.

That is my one problem with John Fox's statement. This should have been told to the Denver media repeatedly from day one of camp. Make it clear to everyone that they see Tebow as the future, but just not the now. It doesn't matter from a fan and media perspective if Elway and Fox do buy into Tebow, they need to make it a clear, public statement to that effect otherwise you get a **** storm.

If fans knew that Tebow was going to get a legit shot and that right now Fox is just trying to represent as strongly as he can out of the gate he and Elway would get FAR more leverage with the fans.


Great post! I was on board with Elway's 'transparency' until it came to the so called QB competition.

There only real F up for me for this regime so far is the botched trade of Orton. I don't know which I dislike more: the failed trade or how they handled the aftermath.

Your post is exactly what should have been done. I don't see how so many fans can see this but seasoned NFL guys, both of whom have been around the league their entire life, couldn't.


They need to take a lesson from the previous guy. He failed to control the media discourse with this team and never gave the fans anything more than played out football cliches for why things happened. How quickly did the fans turn on him and play a key role in ousting him?

At a minimum they should see that McDaniels kremlin like control on all Bronco information will affect them. I know they are a different regime but they need to see the fanbase is a bit jaded from that.

Taco John
10-09-2011, 10:56 AM
Quit being a drama queen.

Its pretty obvious where the conclusion can come from given what Fox said.

Throwing the idea out there and exploring it is what media people are supposed to do, and if Denver had any worth reading, they would have already explored this angle.

Maybe you should be embarrassed for them.

LOL!

Yeah, that's the problem... The media just hasn't explored the things that the Broncos front office has said about Orton/Tebow. If only we could get the media to look at this situation... ROFL!

frerottenextelway
10-09-2011, 11:08 AM
Coach Fox said Tebow will be our starting Quarterback after the bye if we don't win against San Diego. To quote him exactly, he said "Tebow is improving each week".

baja
10-09-2011, 11:12 AM
Fox said, "I am a teatotaller". Clearly he was mis quoted what he actually said is "I have a teabonner".

Taco John
10-09-2011, 11:13 AM
Fox plans on starting him today. To be specific, he said, "(He's) going to be a heck of a quarterback in time."

Smilin Assassin
10-09-2011, 11:14 AM
16 games to 3 games is not a fair assessment

Why not?

It seems fair for everyone to use the same games to predict Tebow won't succeed and that Bradford is a lock, no?

Gutless Drunk
10-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Why not?

It seems fair for everyone to use the same games to predict Tebow won't succeed and that Bradford is a lock, no?

Sample size determination is the act of choosing the number of observations to include in a statistical sample. The sample size is an important feature of any empirical study in which the goal is to make inferences about a population from a sample. In practice, the sample size used in a study is determined based on the expense of data collection, and the need to have sufficient statistical power. In complicated studies there may be several different sample sizes involved in the study: for example, in as survey sampling involving stratified sampling there would be different sample sizes for each population. In a census, data are collected on the entire population, hence the sample size is equal to the population size. In experimental design, where a study may be divided into different treatment groups, there may be different sample sizes for each group.

Sample sizes may be chosen in several different ways:

expedience - For example, include those items readily available or convenient to collect. A choice of small sample sizes, though sometimes necessary, can result in wide confidence intervals or risks of errors in statistical hypothesis testing.
using a target variance for an estimate to be derived from the sample eventually obtained
using a target for the power of a statistical test to be applied once the sample is collected.

Larger sample sizes generally lead to increased precision when estimating unknown parameters. For example, if we wish to know the proportion of a certain species of fish that is infected with a pathogen, we would generally have a more accurate estimate of this proportion if we sampled and examined 200, rather than 100 fish. Several fundamental facts of mathematical statistics describe this phenomenon, including the law of large numbers and the central limit theorem.

In some situations, the increase in accuracy for larger sample sizes is minimal, or even non-existent. This can result from the presence of systematic errors or strong dependence in the data, or if the data follow a heavy-tailed distribution.

Sample sizes are judged based on the quality of the resulting estimates. For example, if a proportion is being estimated, one may wish to have the 95% confidence interval be less than 0.06 units wide. Alternatively, sample size may be assessed based on the power of a hypothesis test. For example, if we are comparing the support for a certain political candidate among women with the support for that candidate among men, we may wish to have 80% power to detect a difference in the support levels of 0.04 units.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination

go_broncos
10-09-2011, 12:30 PM
They know something we don't?

hmm.you said the same thing about Mcd.
you act as if everything the coaches do is correct.
open your eyes and stop supporting the coaches blindly.

DenverBrit
10-09-2011, 12:56 PM
hmm.you said the same thing about Mcd.
you act as if everything the coaches do is correct.
open your eyes and stop supporting the coaches blindly.

Yep, I had a 'wait and see' attitude with McD instead of junking him before a game had been played. Same goes with Fox/Elway.

I'll give them time to perform rather than try and tell them who to start at QB.

I understand that no matter what, some here think they know best from their armchairs. I don't.

epicSocialism4tw
10-09-2011, 10:38 PM
Yeah, that's the problem... The media just hasn't explored the things that the Broncos front office has said about Orton/Tebow. If only we could get the media to look at this situation...

The media have been pushing this issue as a fan-related problem. The have accumulated no good information on the deal at all.

That's part of the reason why fans have been so perturbed by this whole issue. There has been no clear resolution of the issue. The media has not revealed the teams' plans with Tebow, and have not come up with any significant amount of information on the deal other than EFX abstractions.

Meanwhile, the people at the Denver Post (other than Paige) continue to berate and belittle fans for advocating Tebow rather than to compile statistics and actually uncover information on why one player plays and the other doesn't. The editors at the Denver Post sports page are lazy. They have proven that they accept a substandard level of work from their writers. They actually think that its a good idea to battle the fans and try to control the way they think in an age when fans do much of the research that sports journalists do, and come up with much better educated opinions in a shorter amount of time.

To his credit, Woody Paige knows this. He wrote an article on it a few weeks back where he talked about how fans are sometimes right about players while coaches are wrong on the same issue.

Listen. I made a declarative statement with this thread title. I used the Fox quote as a general framework that I believe can and will be supported by evidence over time.

I will stand by it.

Wanna make another avatar bet?

Agamemnon
10-10-2011, 02:05 AM
Why not?

It seems fair for everyone to use the same games to predict Tebow won't succeed and that Bradford is a lock, no?

Bradford sure doesn't look better than Tebow right now I'll say that much.