PDA

View Full Version : What is the split between EFX about Tebow?


mkporter
10-05-2011, 09:55 AM
According to Woodrow Paige, EFX is split on Tebow. One for, one against, and one undecided. Time for a speculative poll..

Original thread:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=100413

RaiderH8r
10-05-2011, 10:02 AM
Knowing my luck it is Xanders (that irretrievable meatwad dickbag) that is Tebow YES. Apparently he's been reading my tweets. Hey Xanders! Even when we agree I make the decision better than you! Agreeing with me won't change the fact that I am superior to you in every way Xanders.

mkporter
10-05-2011, 10:08 AM
I think it is probably safe to say that Fox isn't the one for Tebow, because he would be playing if that was the case. My guess is that Xanders is not the one against, because he had a part in drafting him, and if he was the vote against, Tebow would probably be playing.

That leaves me with

Fox against, Xanders undecided, Elway for.
or
Fox against, Xanders for, Elway undecided.
or
Fox undecided, Xanders for, Elway against.

Gonna give the duke the benefit of the doubt here..

Gort
10-05-2011, 10:12 AM
Fox wants pepperoni and sausage. Elway wants pineapple and ham. Xanders wants them to hurry up and decide so he can go get the damned pizza already.

Smiling Assassin27
10-05-2011, 10:18 AM
I think it is probably safe to say that Fox isn't the one for Tebow, because he would be playing if that was the case. My guess is that Xanders is not the one against, because he had a part in drafting him, and if he was the vote against, Tebow would probably be playing.

That leaves me with

Fox against, Xanders undecided, Elway for.
or
Fox against, Xanders for, Elway undecided.
or
Fox undecided, Xanders for, Elway against.

Gonna give the duke the benefit of the doubt here..

All I have to do is divide from what I know of Tebow - is he the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet knowing that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not play the quarterback in front of Tebow. ;)

mkporter
10-05-2011, 10:21 AM
All I have to do is divide from what I know of Tebow - is he the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet knowing that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not play the quarterback in front of Tebow. ;)

Awesome post/avatar tie in. Rep.

Kid A
10-05-2011, 10:23 AM
If true, while not a resounding endorsement for them wanting Tebow to play, this would remove all doubt that they will even think about signing Orton long term. Didn't seem likely anyway, but it was certainly a fear I've seen floating around here.

jhns
10-05-2011, 10:32 AM
My opinion:

Fox is against Tebow because he picks the starter and Tebow isn't starting.

Elway is for Tebow because he tried to trade Orton and talked up Tebow before the season.

Xanders is undecided because he is spineless and doesn't know much about this sport, other than how to write up a contract.

Dedhed
10-05-2011, 10:34 AM
I think that Xanders has been for Tebow starting from the end of last year. It makes sense given that he's the only one at all tied to bringing him here.

I think Fox is against it because he's a conservative old codger who really, insanely, believes that Orton gives them the best chance to win.

I think Elway was willing to defer to Fox's opinion and let Tebow develop, but that given the start, and how poorly Orton's played, he's quickly losing patience with Orton as the leader of the Broncos. He's also probably feeling the strain of the fan pressure even more than Fox after having vowed to get the fans excited about Broncos football and now seeing that the fans are less excited than they've been, possibly, in the history of the franchise.

I think at 1-4 we'll have 2 people decidedly for starting Tebow, it will only be a matter of whether Fox comes around as well, or if Elway and Xanders send down a mandate to bench Orton.

Gort
10-05-2011, 10:39 AM
I think Fox is against it because he's a conservative old codger who really, insanely, believes that Orton gives them the best chance to win.

isn't that what i said when i called him a poopy head?

???

rbackfactory80
10-05-2011, 10:40 AM
Elway and Fox against or else he would get a shot.

crush17
10-05-2011, 10:45 AM
Its week 5 for crying out loud. Lets see how we do back home against Whales Vagina. One week at a time folks

broncocalijohn
10-05-2011, 10:48 AM
My opinion:

Fox is against Tebow because he picks the starter and Tebow isn't starting.

Elway is for Tebow because he tried to trade Orton and talked up Tebow before the season.

Xanders is undecided because he is spineless and doesn't know much about this sport, other than how to write up a contract.

If the OP is correct, this would make the most sense. 4 games in, you back off and let the coach do what he is hired to do. GM do get fired when they keep the wrong player based on a coaches decision. EFX would be screwed if Tebow was traded and hit pay dirt somewhere else. With all the trades that went down based on McD's recommendations, I am surprised guys like Ellis and Xanders got to stick around.

Drek
10-05-2011, 10:50 AM
We know Fox isn't "for", otherwise he'd be playing already.

Couple that with Woody's actual quote responding to zdoor's email

"One is for him, one against, one is undecided. 1-1-1."

And the fact that he constantly refers to them as "EFX"

Elway, Fox, Xanders
For, Against, Undecided

Its the instinctive ordering he'd have put them in and reveals quite a bit. It also matches with Fox as against or undecided.

Given that Elway is likely looking to build for the long term and wants an answer on Tebow yesterday so he can either focus on something else or draft a replacement, he is obviously "for" playing him sooner than later. This is corroborated by Elway suddenly feeling the need to publicly state he won't step on the coach's toes when picking a QB.

Xanders apparently never put his foot down once with McDaniels, why would we assume he suddenly has a strong opinion on this after getting a demotion in all but title when Elway came in? He's been castrated enough already, he isn't going to start throwing his opinions out at people.

Fox is generally dismissive towards the thought of playing Tebow, has used classic lines like "well the previous regime didn't play him either" and "we tried it, it didn't work". Goes to reason because Fox is trying to get this locker room behind him and wants to start winning. His traditional comfort zone of winning has been defense and pound the rock running game. Tebow requires a more dynamic style of offense to show you everything he's got (not a different system, but you need to embrace the risk in exchange for Tebow making plays). Makes sense that he's "against".

bronco militia
10-05-2011, 10:52 AM
Its week 5 for crying out loud. Lets see how we do back home against Whales Vagina. One loss at a time folks

fixed

strafen
10-05-2011, 10:53 AM
I think that contrary to popular believe, Fox may want Tebow in there. The big boss -Elway- will not approve, and Xanders got no clue...

Gort
10-05-2011, 10:55 AM
We know Fox isn't "for", otherwise he'd be playing already.

Couple that with Woody's actual quote responding to zdoor's email

"One is for him, one against, one is undecided. 1-1-1."

And the fact that he constantly refers to them as "EFX"

Elway, Fox, Xanders
For, Against, Undecided

Its the instinctive ordering he'd have put them in and reveals quite a bit. It also matches with Fox as against or undecided.

Given that Elway is likely looking to build for the long term and wants an answer on Tebow yesterday so he can either focus on something else or draft a replacement, he is obviously "for" playing him sooner than later. This is corroborated by Elway suddenly feeling the need to publicly state he won't step on the coach's toes when picking a QB.

Xanders apparently never put his foot down once with McDaniels, why would we assume he suddenly has a strong opinion on this after getting a demotion in all but title when Elway came in? He's been castrated enough already, he isn't going to start throwing his opinions out at people.

Fox is generally dismissive towards the thought of playing Tebow, has used classic lines like "well the previous regime didn't play him either" and "we tried it, it didn't work". Goes to reason because Fox is trying to get this locker room behind him and wants to start winning. His traditional comfort zone of winning has been defense and pound the rock running game. Tebow requires a more dynamic style of offense to show you everything he's got (not a different system, but you need to embrace the risk in exchange for Tebow making plays). Makes sense that he's "against".

Elway has repeatedly said that he likes Tebow, but that Tebow is a work in progress and that Tebow has to improve to be a quality NFL QB. it's obvious to me that Elway is undecided. Xanders drafted him, so he's for him and was also the only of the 3 here when Tebow started last season. Fox hates Tebow and would likely murder him in his sleep if he could get away with it. probaby.

Drek
10-05-2011, 10:59 AM
Elway has repeatedly said that he likes Tebow, but that Tebow is a work in progress and that Tebow has to improve to be a quality NFL QB. it's obvious to me that Elway is undecided. Xanders drafted him, so he's for him and was also the only of the 3 here when Tebow started last season. Fox hates Tebow and would likely murder him in his sleep if he could get away with it. probaby.

Xanders was in no way involved with Tebow playing last season. Orton was hurt and the interim coaches rolled with Tebow. Nothing more complex than that.

Elway being for Tebow playing doesn't mean he thinks Tebow is ready. Elway just wants to get him out there and get answers before a draft including Andrew Luck.

Abqbronco
10-05-2011, 11:02 AM
I think that contrary to popular believe, Fox may want Tebow in there. The big boss -Elway- will not approve, and Xanders got no clue...

Sooo... The coach runs his position battles by Elway? I doubt it. Fox sees what is on the field and plays who he thinks gives the team the best chance to win. Whether he is right or not is another question. If Fox wanted Tebow on the field, he would be on the field.

Dedhed
10-05-2011, 11:10 AM
His traditional comfort zone of winning has been defense and pound the rock running game. Tebow requires a more dynamic style of offense to show you everything he's got (not a different system, but you need to embrace the risk in exchange for Tebow making plays). Makes sense that he's "against".

I mentioned this a couple of times before the season, but I'll reiterate here because it's connect to the theme you bring up here.

I think Fox's style is tailor made for Tebow, and plays directly on the weaknesses that Orton has shown throughout his career. With a pound the ball offensive style you're likely to be faced with a lot of 3rd downs, but they'll be manageable distances in the 1-5 yard range.

Those situations are perfect for Tebow where there's a run/pass threat every time. With Orton we're playing directly towards the weakness of the QB. The defense knows that a menagerie of short routes is coming, and that they don't have to be concerned with the run, particularly from the QB. Orton's pick six to Woodson was a prime example.

Then when you throw in the occassional deep ball, Tebow is again the better option. Otron's deep balls were pitiful against the Packers. One resulting in an INT and one dreadfully under thrown to a wide open receiver who should have scored easily.

While I agree we need a more dynamic style of offense to showcase everything that Tebow has, I think that the offense we're currently running is a much better fit for Tebow than it is for Orton. I think Orton was better suited to the Mcadaniels style of offense that is predicated on various multiple receiver sets/formations and a lot of quick throws.

This offense seems extremely basic to me and designed for manageable 3rd downs. Perfect for Tebow.

Dedhed
10-05-2011, 11:15 AM
I think that contrary to popular believe, Fox may want Tebow in there. The big boss -Elway- will not approve, and Xanders got no clue...

I don't think there's any chance of this being true. Elway has stated he doesn't want to take the decision away from the coaches, and Fox's rhetoric surrounding the situation has been clearly Anti-Tebow.

zdoor
10-05-2011, 11:20 AM
I don't think there's any chance of this being true. Elway has stated he doesn't want to take the decision away from the coaches, and Fox's rhetoric surrounding the situation has been clearly Anti-Tebow.

I agree. Fox's comments make it pretty obvious he is the no vote...

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:41 AM
I don't think there's any chance of this being true. Elway has stated he doesn't want to take the decision away from the coaches, and Fox's rhetoric surrounding the situation has been clearly Anti-Tebow.

I agree. Fox's comments make it pretty obvious he is the no vote...

Those.

And compounded with knowing Xanders doesn't have the pair of balls required to make a decision, that places him in the "undecided" column to me and makes this obvious :)

24champ
10-05-2011, 11:44 AM
Those.

And compounded with knowing Xanders doesn't have the pair of balls required to make a decision, that places him in the "undecided" column to me and makes this obvious :)

Yeah and it's perfect for Xanders. We'll see Xanders make the rounds on the Radio about how he was for Tebow or against all along in order to save his job.

Powderaddict
10-05-2011, 11:46 AM
The poll questions made my head hurt :(

Honestly, I don't really have an opinion or even care who wants who, I just want my team to be competitive on gameday!

broncocalijohn
10-05-2011, 11:47 AM
The poll questions made my head hurt :(

Honestly, I don't really have an opinion or even care who wants who, I just want my team to be competitive on gameday!

Thanks Xanders!

MagicHef
10-05-2011, 12:44 PM
Thanks Xanders!

ROFL!

Drek
10-05-2011, 01:40 PM
While I agree we need a more dynamic style of offense to showcase everything that Tebow has, I think that the offense we're currently running is a much better fit for Tebow than it is for Orton. I think Orton was better suited to the Mcadaniels style of offense that is predicated on various multiple receiver sets/formations and a lot of quick throws.

This offense seems extremely basic to me and designed for manageable 3rd downs. Perfect for Tebow.

I'd completely agree, but unfortunately coupled with Tebow's other advantages comes the risk/reward factor and John Fox is obviously just not comfortable with that.

There's the real problem. Fox won't risk a 2 yard loss on the potential of a 15 yard gain. That makes sense if you have the horses at RB and bulls on the OL he employed most of his tenure in Carolina, but we don't have that. Our running game generally works in the range of -1 to +5 yards per play (I'm probably being generous on the high end there). Big plays are exceedingly rare. Losses or no gains are not. This is not the Broncos of old or the Panthers from Fox's best years there where the running game will almost always give worthwhile positive yardage with a fairly high frequency to break the big run.

The worst part about all this is that we've kept McDaniels' passing offense and instead just call it super safe because Orton has zero pocket presence and is unwilling to look down field as a result. That passing offense does not work unless you can hit the defense deep for the big game changing plays. That is at the core of what McDaniels designed. Tebow is easily our best deep ball passer and he also is by far the best QB on our team at creating extra time to pass the ball.

You take this offense as it stands right now with only a few slight changes. More plays out of 12 personnel to give Tebow blockers on the wings. Go deep more often. Incorporate a few more designed roll outs and toss in a couple QB option plays.

Hell, anything beyond that are changes we should consider in general, regardless of QB. Like more two back with Moreno and McGahee paired up, where we can motion Moreno out into the slot for example. ****ing stupid that we have an elusive guy like him who can run routes and catch yet we treat him like a 3 yards and a cloud of dust power back. Use him like the Saints used Bush and now use Sproles coupled with a power back and we'd all be far happier with the results.

But Fox is apparently far too risk adverse to consider any of this.

Play2win
10-05-2011, 03:11 PM
Tebow - Hillis - Larsen

What a Backfield that would have been!!

mkporter
10-05-2011, 03:49 PM
Tebow - Hillis - Larsen

What a Backfield that would have been!!

Whitest in the league by far!

Popps
10-05-2011, 03:51 PM
Paige is just so awful. Just unreadable, even in the rare event that he's right about anything. Honestly, the post needs some new blood.

Archer81
10-05-2011, 03:56 PM
Whitest in the league by far!


Productive, though.


:Broncos:

mkporter
10-05-2011, 04:02 PM
Productive, though.


:Broncos:

In short yardage if nothing else. Probably not too many RB, FB, QB combos where the players are all the same size (huge) like that.

shalowlow
10-05-2011, 04:02 PM
Even if Woody has no idea what he is talking about, it is fun to read things like this and hope that change will be made.

I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, but I sense it may be as simple as this:

Fox was interviewed and showed enthusiasm to play Tebow (I would hope this was the case)

They tried to trade Orton with the plan of starting Tebow.

It didn't work out and Orton blew everyone away just how well he was playing in practice and Tebow just...well...blew it.

The problem was, as we can see now, it was all a fascade, and Orton did it again: making everyone think that he was better than he actually is.

Now the change is much harder to make because everyone in the organization watched Tebow blow it, and Orton does just enough so that a qb change seems like a panic move to the rest of the team.

In the end, I just wish that Tebow had not blown it so bad. I truly believe that they would have tailored an offense to his strengths and tried to make a playoff push with an improved defense.

But Orton did it again. He made everyone (including me) think that he had become a good quarterback.

Archer81
10-05-2011, 04:05 PM
In short yardage if nothing else. Probably not too many RB, FB, QB combos where the players are all the same size (huge) like that.


If they get 7 in the RZ I am more than ok with them being gigante. The threat of running it in opens up so many other options.

Oh, well.

:Broncos:

uplink
10-05-2011, 04:36 PM
"Truth is, EFX is 1-1-1 on the two quarterbacks.
So Fox breaks the tie. " seems to mean fox is the one undecided


Woody seems to have all the insider info nowadays and he didn't have it a year ago. I think he is tight with Elway, so he wouldn't say things that would paint Elway's point of view in a bad way. Woody is screaming for Tebow to play nowadays.

So Elway for, Xanders against, fox undecided

rbackfactory80
10-05-2011, 04:57 PM
I just don't believe they would be split now. They both don't believe in Tebow. When Fox was hired, I am sure they knew what they both wanted. I think Fox was hired because he shared the same views as Elway on the qb situation.

They both clearly understood what they were getting in both Tebow and Orton.

mkporter
10-05-2011, 05:26 PM
I just don't believe they would be split now. They both don't believe in Tebow. When Fox was hired, I am sure they knew what they both wanted. I think Fox was hired because he shared the same views as Elway on the qb situation.

They both clearly understood what they were getting in both Tebow and Orton.

Seems unlikely given that they were gung-ho on trading Orton before the season.

rbackfactory80
10-05-2011, 05:46 PM
Seems unlikely given that they were gung-ho on trading Orton before the season.


Are we sure that's really what happened? Maybe they knew a trade wasn't possible due to his high salary. I just don't believe anything coming out of Dove Valley.

I think they came out and threw us a couple bones so we could gain their trust and then went Belichick on us. I am not complaining by the way. I don't think a FO should be transparent.

This is a business and it's first priority is making money. Saying Tebow was going to start is a good business decision.

Agamemnon
10-05-2011, 05:47 PM
They both clearly understood what they were getting in both Tebow and Orton.

If that were true, the starter would not be who it is.

rbackfactory80
10-05-2011, 05:57 PM
If that were true, the starter would not be who it is.

So what about now?

They have a sample of Orton's "work" to look over. Do they seem upset? NO! They are getting what they expected from Orton.

Hell, everyone on this board minus 5 posters knew what they were going to get from Orton and Tebow. The decisions they are making don't make sense, they are making them for a reason though.

uplink
10-05-2011, 06:02 PM
Seems unlikely given that they were gung-ho on trading Orton before the season.

Apparently Orton has asked for a trade, then changed his mind when the Fins deal fell through

uplink
10-05-2011, 06:03 PM
I think the split Woody is talking about is not should Tebow start, but should they even plan for him in the future as part of the team (even a 2nd string QB)

tsiguy96
10-05-2011, 06:11 PM
one thing im starting to realize, that until they make the switch, there will be absolute 100% support for orton coming from the front office. they will not question IF a switch needs to be made at all, they will just do it, eventually .

SoCalBronco
10-05-2011, 07:54 PM
Xanders is waiting to see how Tebow turns out in the end and then he'll tell us what his position was back way back when.

gyldenlove
10-05-2011, 07:58 PM
Xanders is waiting to see how Tebow turns out in the end and then he'll tell us what his position was back way back when.

He may also tell us if Tebow prefers deep pan or cheese crust.

Rock Chalk
10-05-2011, 08:05 PM
All I have to do is divide from what I know of Tebow - is he the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet knowing that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not play the quarterback in front of Tebow. ;)

Brilliant.

Rock Chalk
10-05-2011, 08:06 PM
Paige wasn't saying it's a split vote to start Tebow or not.


What he was illustrating is that theoretically, Xanders, Fox, and Elway all have an equal amount of decision making power. He then explained that while in concept that makes it 1-1-1, Elway and Xanders are choosing to defer to John Fox on decision making at this time. So, basically, Fox is running the team with Shanahan and McDaniels-esque control.

No thats not what that means at all.

It means, when it comes to who to play and there is some split between the three main football guys, they defer to the coach.

Which is how most organizations are ****ing run.

ward63
10-05-2011, 10:49 PM
I love Tebow and I definitely want him to start, but if this season lands us Luck, is somehow considered a success? I mean, we will have probably the best young QB in the league and can make us at least relevant for the next 10-15 years. Idk...just trying to be positive in all this b/c watching Orton makes me want to vomit anymore.

Jay3
10-06-2011, 04:58 AM
I love Tebow and I definitely want him to start, but if this season lands us Luck, is somehow considered a success?

It's not going to happen. The Broncos are going to win at least 4 games and maybe 7.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-06-2011, 05:12 AM
It's not going to happen. The Broncos are going to win at least 4 games and maybe 7.

:rofl:

The Joker
10-06-2011, 05:15 AM
It's not going to happen. The Broncos are going to win at least 4 games and maybe 7.

This team winning 7 games. LOL

My guess on the split would be

Fox prefers Orton, as he's a conventional QB which is what Fox has always gone for, and he was alarmed by Tebow looking awful in practice.

Xanders prefers Tebow, as he had a hand in drafting him and it looks awful for him if a first round pick that he had a hand in selecting gets shipped out before being given a shot.

Elway is undecided as he can probably see a lot of great things in Tebow that might translate to success on the field, but as a great QB himself he can also see some pretty glaring concerns and is therefore understandably weary to endorse the guy fully and effectively force him on the new head coach.