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Taco John
10-04-2011, 09:14 PM
Download Episode 8 - Week 4 @ Green Bay (http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/7fs99xnai7/111004_orangemanepodcast_08.mp3)
(right click - save as)



http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/7fs99xnai7/111004_orangemanepodcast_08.mp3

Sir_Robin
10-04-2011, 09:16 PM
Does this one have the hotline calls?

Taco John
10-04-2011, 09:17 PM
Yes

TheReverend
10-04-2011, 10:54 PM
Just finished. Super smooth cover up on my disconnect!

There was SOOOOO much I wanted to talk about that I'm somewhat all over the place. Regardless, thanks again, it was an absolute blast and looking forward to it again sometime.

hambone13
10-04-2011, 11:59 PM
Gentlemen,

That was solid. It was not without quake from a production perspective (I'm sure Popps will have all sorts of things to fine tune because of his infinite experience) but it was your best delivery via Voice, of an intelligent representation of 'The Mane' and it's culture, yet.

As I mentioned to TJ on PM, I was waiting with bated breath. Because I tend to scan the forum and don't always pick up on the details and nuisances of personality that you all seem to already understand about each other, it has been awesome to put voice to User Name/Avatar.

What I have enjoyed most about this project in general, is not only the effort but to understand the personalities of some of the more involved, intelligent and informed vein of 'The Mane'.

As social media is becoming a cornerstone of our culture, many of the general complaints about 'The Mane' and it's ability to harbor intelligent discussion ("Like Back in the Day") can be over-come (IMO) with this type of media. There will always be the jackasses but if the leadership that makes 'The Mane' what it is, an "informed community", it will continue to improve.

I adore the concept of that idea continuing. TJ, Montrose, SoCal, Kaylore, thanks a million for the effort. TJ, I applaud your efforts to get your guest "The Rev" on. I'm biased because I suggested it but I really think it added to what this place is really all about. Thanks Rev. I'd be happy to listen to the long story if you're ever inclined. More to come....

Respectfully,

J

TDmvp
10-05-2011, 12:33 AM
The pod cast have been the best addition to the site since Boob Mojo.
Very well conceived T.J. and now you are forced to do these forever ! LOL.
Rev , Socal and Kaylore was always 3 of my favorites here and it's hilarious to hear their takes.
God if only Mock was still here for these it would have been epic.


But well done guys.

Dr. Broncenstein
10-05-2011, 12:45 AM
Nice job, guys. Really enjoyed listening to this.

Requiem
10-05-2011, 01:06 AM
So how many people are following Raj on Twitter? ;)

Great job guys!

strafen
10-05-2011, 06:01 AM
Awesome, well done. I've had a chance to listen to it last night.
Where was Kaylore?
I thought he was supposed to be one of the regulars along with Raj?

Powderaddict
10-05-2011, 07:26 AM
I'm an opening act, I feel so big time LOL

Great job as always.

I enjoyed the discussion on John Fox. I think he can be a good coach here. But you are right - we were sold Tim Tebow, Orton was traded at the starting gun, and now we're supposed to believe that Orton was the QB all along and Denver is happy with him?

That's the disconnect with the fans right there. It's pretty obvious that the team is not willing to do what would be needed to be successful with Tebow. They didn't take him, they inherited him, and if he doesn't fit what they want to do, that's fair. But that being the case, why did they sell him so aggressively? It is unfair to the fans to sell him and put him front and center, then seem so annoyed when the fans expect to see him play, particularly with how uninspiring it is watching Orton.

The FO obviously doesn't really like Orton either, they haven't extended him, they tried to trade him, their action show they are not going to move forward with him, why be surprised when the fans pick up on that and do not want to move forward with him? The difference isn't IF, it's WHEN.

Taco John
10-05-2011, 08:33 AM
Awesome, well done. I've had a chance to listen to it last night.
Where was Kaylore?
I thought he was supposed to be one of the regulars along with Raj?


I think Kaylore was watching Dancing With the Stars. ;)

Kaylore
10-05-2011, 08:40 AM
I think Kaylore was watching Dancing With the Stars. ;)

Thankfully not! We had a dinner appointment with a couple of friends and I had dessert duty. It was an apple pie with strudel and was delicious, though I didn't let it cool completely and it ate like a cobbler.

I am sorry I missed this week. I love this format and am listening now. About 58 minutes in and still a half hour to go.

Ray Finkle
10-05-2011, 08:40 AM
Good job....I think it was well done.

Tebow sucks btw

TheDave
10-05-2011, 08:53 AM
Well that was a happy chat...

First off thought everyone did a great job. Things keeping getting more and more polished. Rev, great job and I love the idea of rotating in posters as guest hosts (while keeping the core intact).

Having said that, I sure hope you guys are wrong.

Team... Crap
FO... Crap
Coaching Staff... Crap
CFO... Crap
Owner... Crap

I think we are going overboard here. We got our ass handed to us by the best team in the NFL. That sucks and it shows how far we have to go... But I'm not sure it signifies that everysingle piece of the franchise is crap.

JMO...

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 08:54 AM
Thankfully not! We had a dinner appointment with a couple of friends and I had dessert duty. It was an apple pie with strudel and was delicious, though I didn't let it cool completely and it ate like a cobbler.

I am sorry I missed this week. I love this format and am listening now. About 58 minutes in and still a half hour to go.

The length might be my fault.

Turns out I have a tendency to tangent. Who knew?! :)

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 08:56 AM
Well that was a happy chat...

First off thought everyone did a great job. Things keeping getting more and more polished. Rev, great job and I love the idea of rotating in posters as guest hosts (while keeping the core intact).

Having said that, I sure hope you guys are wrong.

Team... Crap
FO... Crap
Coaching Staff... Crap
CFO... Crap
Owner... Crap

I think we are going overboard here. We got our ass handed to us by the best team in the NFL. That sucks and it shows how far we have to go... But I'm not sure it signifies that everysingle piece of the franchise is crap.

JMO...

...At 1-3 you were expecting glowing reviews?

We discussed how well Von played and how Doom's return benefited him, McGahee's success thus far and Bailey coming back this week etc.

Eldorado
10-05-2011, 08:58 AM
How to get to iphone without itunes?

TheDave
10-05-2011, 09:01 AM
...At 1-3 you were expecting glowing reviews?

We discussed how well Von played and how Doom's return benefited him, McGahee's success thus far and Bailey coming back this week etc.

No, not looking for "glowing reviews"

Just not sure that everything from the owner to the parking lot attendant is a complete loss.

Like I said... JMO.

gyldenlove
10-05-2011, 09:03 AM
Great show guys, very smooth compared to the earlier editions and great idea having Rev on there.

I would like to make a comment on the Eddie Royal issue, I think it is very much utilization that is limiting him. Royal is pretty fast but lacks the size to stretch the field against tight coverage, his real strength is his quickness and his cuts, he really needs to be running routes where he can use double moves and get the ball in a tight area right after he comes out of his breaks, Cutler could deliver that ball but Orton just isn't the guy to make those throws and we are not running an offense that relies a lot on those medium routes.

Oh a note on the TD to Jennings, that looked like a cover-3 to me with Jennings going down the seam, in that situation there is a weakness in the area behind the linebackers in front of the safeties. It looked to me like a bad defensive call that should have been changed on the field to account for the double wide.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 09:06 AM
No, not looking for "glowing reviews"

Just not sure that everything from the owner to the parking lot attendant is a complete loss.

Like I said... JMO.

...Not an exaggeration at all ::)

Do you have some specific points you'd like to raise?

Which parts of the show did you disagree with?

Eldorado
10-05-2011, 09:08 AM
...Not an exaggeration at all ::)

Do you have some specific points you'd like to raise?

Which parts of the show did you disagree with?

The part where I CAN'T ****ING LISTEN TO IT! Anybody? How do I get it on the iphone without itunes?

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 09:13 AM
Great show guys, very smooth compared to the earlier editions and great idea having Rev on there.

I would like to make a comment on the Eddie Royal issue, I think it is very much utilization that is limiting him. Royal is pretty fast but lacks the size to stretch the field against tight coverage, his real strength is his quickness and his cuts, he really needs to be running routes where he can use double moves and get the ball in a tight area right after he comes out of his breaks, Cutler could deliver that ball but Orton just isn't the guy to make those throws and we are not running an offense that relies a lot on those medium routes.

Oh a note on the TD to Jennings, that looked like a cover-3 to me with Jennings going down the seam, in that situation there is a weakness in the area behind the linebackers in front of the safeties. It looked to me like a bad defensive call that should have been changed on the field to account for the double wide.

1. Thanks :)

2. Jennings had 1 TD and it was a 17 yard gain over a loose cover 1 where Dawkins (wtf) is playing on Jennings and well... that's a horrid match up and THAT'S a spot to blow a timeout.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011100211/2011/REG4/broncos@packers#menu=highlights&tab=recap

We didn't discuss that play in the podcast, but great post gylden.

Kaylore
10-05-2011, 09:13 AM
Well that was a happy chat...

First off thought everyone did a great job. Things keeping getting more and more polished. Rev, great job and I love the idea of rotating in posters as guest hosts (while keeping the core intact).

Having said that, I sure hope you guys are wrong.

Team... Crap
FO... Crap
Coaching Staff... Crap
CFO... Crap
Owner... Crap

I think we are going overboard here. We got our ass handed to us by the best team in the NFL. That sucks and it shows how far we have to go... But I'm not sure it signifies that everysingle piece of the franchise is crap.

JMO...

There was a lot to like, too though. I think everyone did a good job sharing the podium so to speak. Mike talked more than usual and it made for a balanced show. I thought the calls at the end of the show were outstanding, especially the discussions around them. The different view points on things like what position they would upgrade and the draft guessing were really fun to listen to. I like the way the show is shifting away from talking about just the game to more long term opinions on the Broncos and what they should/could do moving forward.

Unfortunately I have to agree the tone was overly negative for my taste. I feel bad for missing this call if only because I am now realizing I am the only optimist in the group. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the show missed me specifically, and obviously we're a bad team and have many holes, but having said that I felt this session was overly negative and could have used a dissenting voice. There were a couple of times it felt like piling on - excessively. Maybe that's where the fans are at, though. It was a brutal loss, but it was to a Super Bowl team still firing on all cylinders in a place we have never won since the Broncos were created in 1960. The comments against Fox made him sound like he's borderline incompetent.

Obviously its indicative of the guests. SoCal hates Bowlen and while he doesn't enjoy seeing the team suffer, he enjoys seeing the Bowlen suffer and could stomach the team being bad if it made Bowlen unhappy. SoCal, Rev and Taco are all big Shanafans who strongly disagreed with the firing. It surprised me that Montrose was bringing Shanahan up quite a bit as well. I did know Montrose's opinion against Orton and for Tebow or anyone not named Orton to start for the Broncos.

I guess there are people who like the negativity, though. And there is certainly plenty of it to go around for this team, and has been for some time. I remember someone on here saying they like Les Shapiro as a radio host and he's pretty negative and they see it as "calling it like it is" so I guess its a taste thing. Apparently not mine.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 09:24 AM
There was a lot to like, too though. I think everyone did a good job sharing the podium so to speak. Mike talked more than usual and it made for a balanced show. I thought the calls at the end of the show were outstanding, especially the discussions around them. The different view points on things like what position they would upgrade and the draft guessing were really fun to listen to. I like the way the show is shifting away from talking about just the game to more long term opinions on the Broncos and what they should/could do moving forward.

Unfortunately I have to agree the tone was overly negative for my taste. I feel bad for missing this call if only because I am now realizing I am the only optimist in the group. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the show missed me specifically, and obviously we're a bad team and have many holes, but having said that I felt this session was overly negative and could have used a dissenting voice. There were a couple of times it felt like piling on - excessively. Maybe that's where the fans are at, though. It was a brutal loss, but it was to a Super Bowl team still firing on all cylinders in a place we have never won since the Broncos were created in 1960. The comments against Fox made him sound like he's borderline incompetent.

Obviously its indicative of the guests. SoCal hates Bowlen and while he doesn't enjoy seeing the team suffer, he enjoys seeing the Bowlen suffer and could stomach the team being bad if it made Bowlen unhappy. SoCal, Rev and Taco are all big Shanafans who strongly disagreed with the firing. It surprised me that Montrose was bringing Shanahan up quite a bit as well. I did know Montrose's opinion against Orton and for Tebow or anyone not named Orton to start for the Broncos.

I guess there are people who like the negativity, though. And there is certainly plenty of it to go around for this team, and has been for some time. I remember someone on here saying they like Les Shapiro as a radio host and he's pretty negative and they see it as "calling it like it is" so I guess its a taste thing. Apparently not mine.

There were a lot of things I wanted to get to without the opportunity to and some flat out mistakes. When TJ asked about the time management I wanted to specifically mention taking a knee before half, specific use of TOs and him running it when we were down by 32 and playing to save face and not to win. Things like that.

I also wanted to get into the schematics of Allen's defense and while we're finally crushing pockets, how it's also made us so susceptible to misdirection and big plays, etc.

Who knew 1:40 wasnt nearly enough time!

As for your comments, maybe a section of the show dedicated to "brightsides" in order? Especially with mounting losses and building frustration? Maybe some MORE focus on Miller and Doom and McGahee and getting healthy?

What specifics would you have been positive about had you been able to make it last night?

Chris
10-05-2011, 09:40 AM
What Khan said. It was a good podcast but somewhat depressing in that it seemed there were few glimmers of hope (off the top of my head Decker and Vondoom's teamwork are the only things to be happy about).

I loved the draft predictions. With the exception of his plan to murder five people for Jake Plummer Rev sounded borderline sane (which was hard to believe) and I appreciated his football takes. I must also now credit him with the creation of the verb "to tangent".

TheDave
10-05-2011, 09:41 AM
...Not an exaggeration at all ::)

Do you have some specific points you'd like to raise?

Which parts of the show did you disagree with?

At this point I would completely disagree with the characterization that our entire FO including ownership and the CFO are a bunch of clowns pocketing all the money while screwing over the fans. What I heard made me think the group was already on the level of a Matt Millen regime with a little al davis thrown in.

I don't think that is the case... at all.

I think people are forgetting the mess this team was in when the season ended in january... Followed by lockout / followed by a truncated FA period camp schedule etc. Point is the deck is completely stacked against them this season. I think they have done an acceptable job so far and deserve more time to enact their "plan".

Let me give a quick example. Several years ago a former friend tried to rip me off through a business we co-owned. Long story short... I removed him from the business and walked head first into a **** storm not unlike the 2010 Broncos. Now I would love to tell you that I walked in made every correct decision and turned everything around in a matter of 6 months. Unfortunately life does not work that way... I didn't make every correct decision and it took a hell of a lot longer than 6 months to fix the mess my personal McDaniel's created... Point is we are jumping the gun, and it is way too early to characterize them as a bunch of incompetent thief's.

By this point in the McD regime we had traded our QB, blown the entire draft, suspended our WR, and were in the process of giving the all screen offense a go... A resounding WTF had been earned.


Now don't get too defensive Rev... I think everyone did a good job. I just think the tone was more helpless than it should be at this point.

Chris
10-05-2011, 09:43 AM
I think it's important to separate their (imo) mistreatment of the current QB situation with the quality of the overall plan. Tebow or no Tebow, I'm actually confident in their ability to bridge the talent gap and get us back to a competitive level over the next few years. I like what Elway's said about the general principles he's applying to his management. I liked this year's draft... and I'm "ok" with the conservative approach of John Fox going forward.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 09:48 AM
At this point I would completely disagree with the characterization that our entire FO including ownership and the CFO are a bunch of clowns pocketing all the money while screwing over the fans. What I heard made me think the group was already on the level of a Matt Millen regime with a little al davis thrown in.

I don't think that is the case... at all.

I think people are forgetting the mess this team was in when the season ended in january... Followed by lockout / followed by a truncated FA period camp schedule etc. Point is the deck is completely stacked against them this season. I think they have done an acceptable job so far and deserve more time to enact their "plan".

Let me give a quicky example. Several years ago a former friend tried to rip me off through a business we co-owned. Long story short... I removed him from the business and walked head first into a **** storm not unlike the 2010 Broncos. Now I would love to tell you that I walked in made every correct decision and turned everything around in a matter of 6 months. Unfortunately life does not work that way... I didn't make every correct decision and it took a hell of a lot longer than 6 months to fix the mess my personal McDaniels created... Point is we are jumping the gun, and it is way too early to characterize them as a bunch of incompetent thiefs.

By this point in the McD regime we had traded our QB, blown the entire draft, suspended our WR, and were in the process of giving the all screen offense a go... A resounding WTF had been earned.


Now don't get too defensive Rev... I think everyone did a good job. I just think the tone was more helpless than it should be at this point.

I'm not getting defensive, I'm just asking you for examples. Why are you getting defensive about being asked to provide them? :kiss:

I think the only real FO comments were about how they completely neglected CB coming into the season and how they've sold Tebow to fans only to bench him and related dishonesty.

Personally I don't see how anyone can disagree with those points.

Now, you mentioned the FO inheriting a huge mess.... but most of the FO is held-over from last year, sooooo... what am I missing that was discussed that you disagree with? I mean, exaggerated paraphrasing is swell and all, but genuinely some specific examples would help ME see your POV?

gyldenlove
10-05-2011, 10:12 AM
1. Thanks :)

2. Jennings had 1 TD and it was a 17 yard gain over a loose cover 1 where Dawkins (wtf) is playing on Jennings and well... that's a horrid match up and THAT'S a spot to blow a timeout.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011100211/2011/REG4/broncos@packers#menu=highlights&tab=recap

We didn't discuss that play in the podcast, but great post gylden.

I see what you mean, on the TV I was watching I didn't see the outside guy go down the sideline so it looked like Vaughn was backing into a deep zone, which is why I said cover 3.

Dawkins in general had a rough day against the pass they went to him several times knowing they had a big speed advantage.

gyldenlove
10-05-2011, 10:20 AM
There were a lot of things I wanted to get to without the opportunity to and some flat out mistakes. When TJ asked about the time management I wanted to specifically mention taking a knee before half, specific use of TOs and him running it when we were down by 32 and playing to save face and not to win. Things like that.

I also wanted to get into the schematics of Allen's defense and while we're finally crushing pockets, how it's also made us so susceptible to misdirection and big plays, etc.

Who knew 1:40 wasnt nearly enough time!

As for your comments, maybe a section of the show dedicated to "brightsides" in order? Especially with mounting losses and building frustration? Maybe some MORE focus on Miller and Doom and McGahee and getting healthy?

What specifics would you have been positive about had you been able to make it last night?

The kneel-down at the end of the 1st half really set the tone for me, it is 28 seconds, all 3 time-outs and an 11 point game at the time, you have a kicker with a big leg and if you can move the ball to the GB 40 you have an outside shot at 3 points, that play to me showed that Fox does not trust Orton as much as he would like us to believe - if you trust your QB to go out and and not make a mistake, you take that chance, hope you can get enough yards for a FG and make it a 1 possession game, especially with GB recieving in the 2nd half, you risk being down by 3 scores by the time you get the ball back.

As for the positives, the defensive line is doing better than I think anyone would have anticipated, they are still not a strong unit but considering how far behind the rest of an otherwise bad team they were last year it is good to see some improvement there. I think Rahim Moore is showing some good things, he is obviously still a rookie and still makes rookie mistakes but the talent is obvious. On offense Decker is clearly showing a lot of promise, he still has a few miscues with route running, but he makes a lot of plays and the mental side of the game will come with more game time. So far I would say the free agents we did bring in have done well, Mcgahee, Fells and Bunkley (I know he was a trade) have contributed.

As for debating draft in 2012, I can only see 2 options in the first round, CB or QB.

Requiem
10-05-2011, 10:26 AM
I'd keep CB and DL in the first round as well.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 10:32 AM
Great posts gylden! And I know what you meant with the coverage, 3 and 1 can be confusing. As far as your first cover 3 comment, there is no opening between deep thirds and LBs... The SS will float in there.

Cover 3 is specifically used to take away the deep and intermediate balls and force someone to come after you underneath with slants and outs.

...Unfortunately our personnel probably won't even allow an effective use of 3 until Champ returns. Then Moore can cheat to goodman a little.

Re: moore I fully agree with you but he made huge mental errors this game. His play on the jennings bomb was just stupid and he needs to sack up and not run OOB when he gets the ball. Just a couple off the cuff examples

24champ
10-05-2011, 10:36 AM
Now, you mentioned the FO inheriting a huge mess.... but most of the FO is held-over from last year, sooooo... what am I missing that was discussed that you disagree with?

ALL of the FO is held over from last year, only added Elway...

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 10:37 AM
DEATHSicle can provide better music, the 1st bumper was bad though the voice over intro was pointed in the right direction.

Just started to listen, I had a full day of dr's yesterday.

BTW Taco, DEATHSicle got DEATHSicles new synth, little mono Dave Smith Mopho. Hint, Hint!

Chris
10-05-2011, 10:40 AM
ALL of the FO is held over from last year, only added Elway...

At least Ellis isn't holding the reins anymore.

bronco militia
10-05-2011, 10:41 AM
rev, you were much more diplomatic than I expected. props on playing nice.

great job again!

bronco militia
10-05-2011, 10:47 AM
on the negativity.....

IMO, the only way the mood changes for Broncos fans is when the team starts winning again.

Kaylore, you are more negative on the podcast than you are with your posts on the Mane. Just my opinion.

Taco John
10-05-2011, 11:02 AM
The length might be my fault.

Turns out I have a tendency to tangent. Who knew?! :)


Every week it goes an hour and a half. With all the things to talk about, it's hard to keep it shorter than that. I've gotten a lot of feedback from people saying they like the length. I've gotten some from others who wish it were shorter. I personally like the hour and a half format. It's very throurough. It gives us a chance to really hash over the issues. It lends itself to the panel format really well. It's compelling throughout. And best of all, it fills the space when I'm on my bike ride. I like to listen to podcasts while I'm excersizing, cooking, doing chores, etc. I listen to several podcasts that are over an hour long - some of them even going over 2 hours. If the discussion is entertaining, it think it works out ok.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:04 AM
on the negativity.....

IMO, the only way the mood changes for Broncos fans is when the team starts winning again.

Kaylore, you are more negative on the podcast than you are with your posts on the Mane. Just my opinion.

I felt that way too and frankly was surprised by it. I thought Kaylore has been the most ruthless towards Orton until I was on, in fact.

bronco militia
10-05-2011, 11:07 AM
FYI, I don't mind the negativity....

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:10 AM
FYI, I don't mind the negativity....

I get the gripe, I'm just asking for people to give examples so TJ can implement them towards the development of his show. Somehow it'll be viewed as "needlessly confrontational" though Hilarious!

Taco John
10-05-2011, 11:10 AM
As for debating draft in 2012, I can only see 2 options in the first round, CB or QB.

Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 11:16 AM
Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

And a RB, C, DT, RG...

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:17 AM
Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

Upgraded corners mean less two deep looks ;)

Taco John
10-05-2011, 11:19 AM
Upgraded corners mean less two deep looks ;)



I'm all for an upgrade in corner, but I think we can find that in FA. Teams don't let top flight safeties get away - they're not as expensive to sign usually and are easier to keep around. You got to get a top safety through the draft.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:24 AM
I'm all for an upgrade in corner, but I think we can find that in FA. Teams don't let top flight safeties get away - they're not as expensive to sign usually and are easier to keep around. You got to get a top safety through the draft.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/e6d6r6.gif

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 11:24 AM
I am about 35 min in and I can't believe you guys are talking about firing Fox already.

I think the FO just wanted to stabilize the team and find out what they have talent wise rather than desperately trying to over pay for FA's this year.

Give Fox at least 2 years to stabilize the franchise and fill out the depth before you pick up your pitch forks.

Socal has the right idea.

It does sound like the Broncos Marketing staff had a disconnect with the FO/coaching staff with their marketing of Timbo on the tickets and merch.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:26 AM
I am about 35 min in and I can't believe you guys are talking about firing Fox already.

I think the FO just wanted to stabilize the team and find out what they have talent wise rather than desperately trying to over pay for FA's this year.

Give Fox at least 2 years to stabilize the franchise and fill out the depth before you pick up your pitch forks.

Socal has the right idea.

It does sound like the Broncos Marketing staff had a disconnect with the FO/coaching staff with their marketing of Timbo on the tickets and merch.

Haha NO ONE on the show advocated firing Fox.

24champ
10-05-2011, 11:26 AM
At least Ellis isn't holding the reins anymore.

Do you really believe that?

Ellis controls what Elway and Co. can spend.

gyldenlove
10-05-2011, 11:27 AM
Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

I just don't think we can spend two 2nd round picks and a 1st round picks on safeties over a 4 year period, S is not nearly as important a position as CB - I would be much happier getting a good CB and picking up a journeyman safety (there are always a few floating around FA).

gyldenlove
10-05-2011, 11:28 AM
And a RB, C, DT, RG...

Aside from DT I wouldn't draft any of those positions in the 1st round.

vancejohnson82
10-05-2011, 11:31 AM
Or Safety. We absolutely need a safety on this team.

In the first 3 rounds I wouldnt even look at safety....

we just blew two picks in the last draft on safety

Powderaddict
10-05-2011, 11:32 AM
Every week it goes an hour and a half. With all the things to talk about, it's hard to keep it shorter than that. I've gotten a lot of feedback from people saying they like the length. I've gotten some from others who wish it were shorter. I personally like the hour and a half format. It's very throurough. It gives us a chance to really hash over the issues. It lends itself to the panel format really well. It's compelling throughout. And best of all, it fills the space when I'm on my bike ride. I like to listen to podcasts while I'm excersizing, cooking, doing chores, etc. I listen to several podcasts that are over an hour long - some of them even going over 2 hours. If the discussion is entertaining, it think it works out ok.

I like the length just fine. In fact, if it was stretched to 2 hours I'd have no complaint, it would cover a commute to and from work just about perfectly :D

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:32 AM
Do you really believe that?

Ellis controls what Elway and Co. can spend.

Ignore the idiot. Ellis was just promoted to effing President of the Broncos but he "doesn't hold the reins anymore"

Ray Finkle
10-05-2011, 11:33 AM
Again let me first start by stating this, I really like the pod cast. However, the constant bitching and finger pointing about who is at fault is tiring. Socal's Venom for Bowlen, Everyone else's venom against Orton takes away a lot of the great parts.

I understand it's a round table discussion but I am so Orton/Tebow'd out....

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:33 AM
In the first 3 rounds I wouldnt even look at safety....

we just blew two picks in the last draft on safety

Blow is a strong word. It was needed and it's a heady position, so the mental errors they're making (Moore we can visibly see) are substantially amplified.

vancejohnson82
10-05-2011, 11:35 AM
Blow is a strong word. It was needed and it's a heady position, so the mental errors they're making (Moore we can visibly see) are substantially amplified.

true...blow was a bad choice of word

but I would feel like we would be "blowing" a pick with a first day look at a safety....there are too many holes on the team to go early with positions we already have young guys we are trying to develop

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:39 AM
true...blow was a bad choice of word

but I would feel like we would be "blowing" a pick with a first day look at a safety....there are too many holes on the team to go early with positions we already have young guys we are trying to develop

Fully agree.

We played a cover 2 shell against both the Jennings 43 yard bomb and the Jordy Nelson 50 yard touchdown. Moore bit hard on Jennings and paid the price, Dawkins couldn't run with Jordy on the other.

...but frankly, they were just as much Goodman (Jennings) and Vaughn (Jordy) fault. They were playing man underneath that cover 2 shell and that SHOULD empower the safeties TO play aggressive and go for the ball or vice versa. It didn't!

We could have the best safeties in the world right now and we'd still get chewed up underneath.

24champ
10-05-2011, 11:39 AM
Ignore the idiot. Ellis was just promoted to effing President of the Broncos but he "doesn't hold the reins anymore"



http://i46.tinypic.com/9hs2s4.jpg

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 11:43 AM
Haha NO ONE on the show advocated firing Fox.

Maybe it was the pain meds, but Taco was talking to Montrose about what he had heard on the radio about Fox and it seemed that everyone was losing patience with Fox. I will relisten after my nap

vancejohnson82
10-05-2011, 11:44 AM
Fully agree.

We played a cover 2 shell against both the Jennings 43 yard bomb and the Jordy Nelson 50 yard touchdown. Moore bit hard on Jennings and paid the price, Dawkins couldn't run with Jordy on the other.

...but frankly, they were just as much Goodman (Jennings) and Vaughn (Jordy) fault. They were playing man underneath that cover 2 shell and that SHOULD empower the safeties TO play aggressive and go for the ball or vice versa. It didn't!

We could have the best safeties in the world right now and we'd still get chewed up underneath.

The one on Dawkins was absolutely disgusting.....I didn't even see Vaughn in the screen and Dawkins obviously isn't going to be able to run with 80% of the WRs in the league right now. Are you sure that was a Cover 2? If so, I'm putting that one more on Dawkins than Vaughn.

Again though....the one thing I will say about playing such a tough schedule this year is that there are going to be PLENTY of instances for Moore and Carter to learn some hard lessons and look stupid during the film sessions which will either make or break them...we will know a lot about what we have back there by the end of the year

The injury to Champ has also shown us that we have NOTHING out there....We haven't had a decent corner behind Champ since D-Will and even he was overrated a bit by the fans, IMO....wouldn't mind seeing us take a look at a corner early on

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 11:48 AM
Aside from DT I wouldn't draft any of those positions in the 1st round.

I woudn't take a DT high, I would take a midround guy we can home grow, I wouldn't take a RB high, I think we need to take a QB in the 1st and pick up a Vet for depth.

I didn't catch that Taco was talking about a high round pick.

I would take some OL depth as high as we can. It would be nice to have competition for Walton and Beadles.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 11:49 AM
The one on Dawkins was absolutely disgusting.....I didn't even see Vaughn in the screen and Dawkins obviously isn't going to be able to run with 80% of the WRs in the league right now. Are you sure that was a Cover 2? If so, I'm putting that one more on Dawkins than Vaughn.

Again though....the one thing I will say about playing such a tough schedule this year is that there are going to be PLENTY of instances for Moore and Carter to learn some hard lessons and look stupid during the film sessions which will either make or break them...we will know a lot about what we have back there by the end of the year

The injury to Champ has also shown us that we have NOTHING out there....We haven't had a decent corner behind Champ since D-Will and even he was overrated a bit by the fans, IMO....wouldn't mind seeing us take a look at a corner early on

Positive. Watch it again. It's out of 21 personnel for GB so it's a straight forward play. And if you can't see Vaughn in your screen on that one you need to get your eyes checked... he and Dawkins are both one to two steps behind Jordy.

It was the Jennings TD that was more on Dawkins (single man covered), which is just Allen being schematically abused by McCarthy.

Pretty good post though.

Chris
10-05-2011, 11:51 AM
Hey Rev thanks for being a complete jerk as always.

What evidence is there that Ellis has any input at this point? From everything I've seen it's EFX and EFX only making the football decisions. Ellis may have greater day to day operational control... but I don't hear about him making any football decisions.

Kaylore
10-05-2011, 11:53 AM
on the negativity.....

IMO, the only way the mood changes for Broncos fans is when the team starts winning again.

Kaylore, you are more negative on the podcast than you are with your posts on the Mane. Just my opinion.

I get that. Especially on the Orton front, and I'll back off. My beef was more that there was nothing positive about anyone at any level and I really don't believe that. For example, the criticisms of the front office's incompetence and the coach's as well were decidedly one-sided. The draft was considered pretty good, but no one mentioned this in criticizing Elway. Just snide comments like "this isn't a lemonade stand" (like he's been treating it like one?) and then ripping him for his bad tweets. Then stuff like saying John Fox isn't a motivator (and he is. Say what you want about him but his teams play for him, reports from the players are that they do buy more than McD, and we aren't losing due to lack of effort, but talent.) and that the Broncos not being able sign free agents that were singed by Carolina ( the majority of which were signed before free agency even began) is evidence he's "not a players coach?"

Come on.

I might rip Orton, but I usually paint the picture that there is hope on the horizon, remind people we're in a rebuild, and point to the areas on the team that are improving every week. I'm not going to pretend the team is going to be good or will be even in the near future, but I don't ridicule every level of the team from top to bottom.

vancejohnson82
10-05-2011, 11:53 AM
Positive. Watch it again. It's out of 21 personnel for GB so it's a straight forward play. And if you can't see Vaughn in your screen on that one you need to get your eyes checked... he and Dawkins are both one to two steps behind Jordy.

It was the Jennings TD that was more on Dawkins (single man covered), which is just Allen being schematically abused by McCarthy.

Pretty good post though.

Ok....have to watch the replays again, but I hate clicking into NFL.com because it takes forever to load and get through the advertisements

I was probably thinking of the Jennings TD then because I just remember Dawkins lagging about 5-6 yards behind him and waiting for him to chew out somebody. When he didn't, I knew the play was all on him.

I was more disappointed with our defense and the coaching schemes on the drive right before half when ROdgers looked like Peyton in any playoff game against us. We telgraphed every blitz by stacking the line, but kept the corners off, which was straight out of the Coyer playbook against Indy.

And after that I don't remember much specifically....just Fells fumbling at the goal line

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Nice Question by Req!

DrFate
10-05-2011, 12:01 PM
Look forward to listening to it on the way home...

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 12:03 PM
I get that. Especially on the Orton front, and I'll back off. My beef was more that there was nothing positive about anyone at any level and I really don't believe that. For example, the criticisms of the front office's incompetence and the coach's as well were decidedly one-sided. The draft was considered pretty good, but no one mentioned this in criticizing Elway. Just snide comments like "this isn't a lemonade stand" (like he's been treating it like one?) and then ripping him for his bad tweets. Then stuff like saying John Fox isn't a motivator (and he is. Say what you want about him but his teams play for him, reports from the players are that they do buy more than McD, and we aren't losing due to lack of effort, but talent.) and that the Broncos not being able sign free agents that were singed by Carolina ( the majority of which were signed before free agency even began) is evidence he's "not a players coach?"

Come on.

I might rip Orton, but I usually paint the picture that there is hope on the horizon, remind people we're in a rebuild, and point to the areas on the team that are improving every week. I'm not going to pretend the team is going to be good or will be even in the near future, but I don't ridicule every level of the team from top to bottom.

Personally, I wish you would've been able to make it last night.

Ok....have to watch the replays again, but I hate clicking into NFL.com because it takes forever to load and get through the advertisements

I was probably thinking of the Jennings TD then because I just remember Dawkins lagging about 5-6 yards behind him and waiting for him to chew out somebody. When he didn't, I knew the play was all on him.

I was more disappointed with our defense and the coaching schemes on the drive right before half when ROdgers looked like Peyton in any playoff game against us. We telgraphed every blitz by stacking the line, but kept the corners off, which was straight out of the Coyer playbook against Indy.

And after that I don't remember much specifically....just Fells fumbling at the goal line

This is something else I wanted to mention during the podcast but wasn't able to jam it into to any of my ramblings.

At one point Simms mentioned your sentiment and suggested jamming the GB WRs at the LOS to disrupt the timing.

...but we simply don't have the CB talent to do that. Quite frankly, even Champ isn't a great press corner. The defense would get really beat up at the LOS and give up some big plays. The way they're doing it is for the best.

Strictly philosophically:

Man coverage - Buy time for pass rush to sack passer (you see this paying dividends in conjunction with Miller's athleticism and talent)

Zone coverage - Read the QB and turnover the football

That's EXTREMELY basic, but it might help someone.

vancejohnson82
10-05-2011, 12:10 PM
Personally, I wish you would've been able to make it last night.



This is something else I wanted to mention during the podcast but wasn't able to jam it into to any of my ramblings.

At one point Simms mentioned your sentiment and suggested jamming the GB WRs at the LOS to disrupt the timing.

...but we simply don't have the CB talent to do that. Quite frankly, even Champ isn't a great press corner. The defense would get really beat up at the LOS and give up some big plays. The way they're doing it is for the best.

Strictly philosophically:

Man coverage - Buy time for pass rush to sack passer (you see this paying dividends in conjunction with Miller's athleticism and talent)

Zone coverage - Read the QB and turnover the football

That's EXTREMELY basic, but it might help someone.

Then what is the advantage of telgraphing a LB blitz, pressing up a safety and then running the corners back....have the corners have the option to jump a slant or curl and hope they don't have time to run a double move?

All we were giving up were intermediate routes in front of the coverage and I guess hoping that they either a) dropped the pass or b) missed a block up front and allowed us to get a quick sack.

I would have rather lined up and ran straight zone at them that entire drive and at least have Rodgers guess where to go with the ball. It woiuld have taken away the pass rush but at least we are making the kid think back there. We were basically telling him where to go with the ball before the snap.

It goes back to what we were talking about before. If we had better cover safeties it would give us the option to press and get help over the top. When we were pressing Dawkins up to the line Rodgers knew the corners had to play soft.

That drive really sucked the life out of me because it brought back bad memories. At one point I think I even yelled at Lenny Walls by accident

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 12:14 PM
Then what is the advantage of telgraphing a LB blitz, pressing up a safety and then running the corners back....have the corners have the option to jump a slant or curl and hope they don't have time to run a double move?

All we were giving up were intermediate routes in front of the coverage and I guess hoping that they either a) dropped the pass or b) missed a block up front and allowed us to get a quick sack.

I would have rather lined up and ran straight zone at them that entire drive and at least have Rodgers guess where to go with the ball. It woiuld have taken away the pass rush but at least we are making the kid think back there. We were basically telling him where to go with the ball before the snap.

It goes back to what we were talking about before. If we had better cover safeties it would give us the option to press and get help over the top. When we were pressing Dawkins up to the line Rodgers knew the corners had to play soft.

That drive really sucked the life out of me because it brought back bad memories. At one point I think I even yelled at Lenny Walls by accident

I don't particularly remember being frustrated by Denver telegraphing blitzes or even particularly noticing it. It didn't make a cameo into my notes, but, that being said it wasn't far into the game when my notes went to hell and I started pounding neckbeards (copyright myself and taco)

But to answer your question, there ARE uses for telegraphing blitzes and they're primarily to influence the opposing teams protection schemes. Force them into max protect, make them adjust to create better stunting lanes, etc.

gyldenlove
10-05-2011, 12:14 PM
I woudn't take a DT high, I would take a midround guy we can home grow, I wouldn't take a RB high, I think we need to take a QB in the 1st and pick up a Vet for depth.

I didn't catch that Taco was talking about a high round pick.

I would take some OL depth as high as we can. It would be nice to have competition for Walton and Beadles.

I would draft a DT in round 1 if there is a guy with a superior mix of strength, speed and motor.

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 12:17 PM
NIce work guys, fun listen though I did miss Kahn.

Loved Socal stepping it up, Montrose is going to be a Star and Rev was a fun listen.

Keep up the good work guys

Tombstone RJ
10-05-2011, 12:18 PM
Just finished. Super smooth cover up on my disconnect!

There was SOOOOO much I wanted to talk about that I'm somewhat all over the place. Regardless, thanks again, it was an absolute blast and looking forward to it again sometime.

how's the chafing?

gyldenlove
10-05-2011, 12:23 PM
This is something else I wanted to mention during the podcast but wasn't able to jam it into to any of my ramblings.

At one point Simms mentioned your sentiment and suggested jamming the GB WRs at the LOS to disrupt the timing.

...but we simply don't have the CB talent to do that. Quite frankly, even Champ isn't a great press corner. The defense would get really beat up at the LOS and give up some big plays. The way they're doing it is for the best.

Strictly philosophically:

Man coverage - Buy time for pass rush to sack passer (you see this paying dividends in conjunction with Miller's athleticism and talent)

Zone coverage - Read the QB and turnover the football

That's EXTREMELY basic, but it might help someone.

Champ has always relied heavily on looking into the backfield to key on the QB to anticipate the throw, when playing press he would have to keep his eyes on the WR and decide which side to give up and hope the rush can get there or that he can jump the pass. To reliably bump at the line you really need physical corners who can jump to contest passes and if you don't have 2 safeties over top you need outside linebackers who can take away the inside pass since the CB can't give up the outside routes.

Kaylore
10-05-2011, 12:48 PM
Personally, I wish you would've been able to make it last night.



I am too. And don't mistake my feeling that the podcast was a negative one for thinking you guys did poorly or said anything wrong in a general sense. 1-3 coming off a 4-12 season doesn't leave anyone with much objective optimism. I just think there are some things we're doing well and there are some things that are fun to watch on the team.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 01:00 PM
I am too. And don't mistake my feeling that the podcast was a negative one for thinking you guys did poorly or said anything wrong in a general sense. 1-3 coming off a 4-12 season doesn't leave anyone with much objective optimism. I just think there are some things we're doing well and there are some things that are fun to watch on the team.

Oh I know. The only reason I'm really pushing for specific examples are so TJ has something tangible to look at when he's preparing for next week's show.

As far as I'm concerned we DID address everything that Denver's doing well (I did want to talk about Allen doing a lot of under looks to try and keep Von near the LOS, but couldnt crowbar that into any of my ramblings either) sadly.

And we were nicer than you expected:

"I expect a 45 minutes will be about how Fox is terrible for not starting Tebow, and then 15 minutes lauding the praises Mike Shanahan."

Kaylore
10-05-2011, 01:47 PM
Oh I know. The only reason I'm really pushing for specific examples are so TJ has something tangible to look at when he's preparing for next week's show.

As far as I'm concerned we DID address everything that Denver's doing well (I did want to talk about Allen doing a lot of under looks to try and keep Von near the LOS, but couldnt crowbar that into any of my ramblings either) sadly.

And we were nicer than you expected:

"I expect a 45 minutes will be about how Fox is terrible for not starting Tebow, and then 15 minutes lauding the praises Mike Shanahan."

I was surprised Raj brought Shanny up more than the three of you combined. I was expecting a full on tribute to the nineties with bumper music featuring Dave Mathews band and Hootie and Blowfish.

jhns
10-05-2011, 01:52 PM
Just finished and it was good stuff. Rev was a good addition. You should have him on more.

My only complaint would be the mics, which I'm pretty sure has been talked about. One mic just sounds muffled and the volume on each mic was vastly different. It seemed like taco and socal were a lower volume than the other two. Taco did have an alright volume a lot of the time, it just sounded like it faded or he backed away from the mic a few times. This is just picky bs though, it doesn't really take away from the show, just had to adjust the volume a couple times.

24champ
10-05-2011, 01:53 PM
I was surprised Raj brought Shanny up more than the three of you combined. I was expecting a full on tribute to the nineties with bumper music featuring Dave Mathews band and Hootie and Blowfish.

Hilarious!

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 02:00 PM
Hilarious!

I want me some 24Champ as a guest on the podcast!

When are you going to be on? Your one of the most underrated posters here.

Chris
10-05-2011, 02:05 PM
I was surprised Raj brought Shanny up more than the three of you combined. I was expecting a full on tribute to the nineties with bumper music featuring Dave Mathews band and Hootie and Blowfish.

Drinking our collective sorrows away, watching the 98 'bowl to"Time".

Eldorado
10-05-2011, 02:09 PM
You know what's creeping me out? TheRev actually sounds like Ron Burgundy.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 02:18 PM
I was surprised Raj brought Shanny up more than the three of you combined. I was expecting a full on tribute to the nineties with bumper music featuring Dave Mathews band and Hootie and Blowfish.

Hahaha.

I was consciously avoiding Shanahan and Peterson talk. I even tried to change the subject a couple times lol.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 02:19 PM
You know what's creeping me out? TheRev actually sounds like Ron Burgundy.

Lol gtfo

Taco John
10-05-2011, 02:22 PM
You have been such an outspoken supporter of Peterson I just couldn't help myself.

jhns
10-05-2011, 02:26 PM
I didn't like the point of Peterson having a turnover. Miller has four sacks AND two forced fumbles.

hambone13
10-05-2011, 02:29 PM
Every week it goes an hour and a half. With all the things to talk about, it's hard to keep it shorter than that. I've gotten a lot of feedback from people saying they like the length. I've gotten some from others who wish it were shorter. I personally like the hour and a half format. It's very throurough. It gives us a chance to really hash over the issues. It lends itself to the panel format really well. It's compelling throughout. And best of all, it fills the space when I'm on my bike ride. I like to listen to podcasts while I'm excersizing, cooking, doing chores, etc. I listen to several podcasts that are over an hour long - some of them even going over 2 hours. If the discussion is entertaining, it think it works out ok.

I agree. It could even go longer if there are interesting topics. If you don't like the length stop listening! Turn off the radio! This isn't Readers Digest.

24champ
10-05-2011, 02:31 PM
I want me some 24Champ as a guest on the podcast!

When are you going to be on? Your one of the most underrated posters here.

I'm sure there are better guests to be had. Like Drek, Mediator etc.

Actually, I would love to hear Wabbit chime in on the podcast if he was still around. He would be the Adam Schefter of the podcast.:~ohyah!:

hambone13
10-05-2011, 02:32 PM
I get the gripe, I'm just asking for people to give examples so TJ can implement them towards the development of his show. Somehow it'll be viewed as "needlessly confrontational" though Hilarious!

I don't see stating facts as negativity. If the facts happen to have negative connotations, that's just the way it is. Blind optimism doesn't solve problems. If the fan base and more people on this board were aware of more of the details and facts, rather than random snippets of information that they here from the talking heads, we would have a lot less confrontation on here. Additionally, it would hold the FO more accountable given that most fans know about 10% of what is available in detail information. I wish I could have heard that Fox interview where Woody was laying into him better. Does anyone have a link to that press conference?

hambone13
10-05-2011, 02:35 PM
Haha NO ONE on the show advocated firing Fox.

LOL, perfect example of someone taking small parts of information without the complete story and turning it into unnecessary drama.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 02:41 PM
I didn't like the point of Peterson having a turnover. Miller has four sacks AND two forced fumbles.

And fortunately for us, both forced fumbles were recovered by Denver.

Doesn't always work that way though.

INTs are going the other way every time.

hambone13
10-05-2011, 02:45 PM
I get that. Especially on the Orton front, and I'll back off. My beef was more that there was nothing positive about anyone at any level and I really don't believe that. For example, the criticisms of the front office's incompetence and the coach's as well were decidedly one-sided. The draft was considered pretty good, but no one mentioned this in criticizing Elway. Just snide comments like "this isn't a lemonade stand" (like he's been treating it like one?) and then ripping him for his bad tweets. Then stuff like saying John Fox isn't a motivator (and he is. Say what you want about him but his teams play for him, reports from the players are that they do buy more than McD, and we aren't losing due to lack of effort, but talent.) and that the Broncos not being able sign free agents that were singed by Carolina ( the majority of which were signed before free agency even began) is evidence he's "not a players coach?"

Come on.

I might rip Orton, but I usually paint the picture that there is hope on the horizon, remind people we're in a rebuild, and point to the areas on the team that are improving every week. I'm not going to pretend the team is going to be good or will be even in the near future, but I don't ridicule every level of the team from top to bottom.

I completely agree that you are not overly negative at all. It's always the same hand full of people that want infinite optimism based on facts that don't always paint that picture if you're looking at them objectively. You always have something positive to spin. Whether I always agree with it or not is another story :wave:

Popps
10-05-2011, 03:00 PM
I guess there are people who like the negativity, though. And there is certainly plenty of it to go around for this team, and has been for some time. I remember someone on here saying they like Les Shapiro as a radio host and he's pretty negative and they see it as "calling it like it is" so I guess its a taste thing. Apparently not mine.

Couldn't agree more.

It's one thing to be realistic, it's another to just dump on things for the sake of doing so. But, being negative is pretty easy, honestly. It's much tougher to constructively really break things down in a way that is in touch with reality, but also looks at the bigger picture... acknowledges actual progress, etc.

In any case, I probably won't have time to listen to this week's podcast. Too much going on, and Sunday will be upon us before I have a chance. Hope you'll be back on next week. To me, the thing that makes the whole thing work is the balance of hosts. Taco kicking questions out to three of the best posters this forum has is a great formula.

Chris
10-05-2011, 03:04 PM
Was OL play discussed in any depth? I don't recall.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 03:12 PM
Couldn't agree more.

It's one thing to be realistic, it's another to just dump on things for the sake of doing so. But, being negative is pretty easy, honestly. It's much tougher to constructively really break things down in a way that is in touch with reality, but also looks at the bigger picture... acknowledges actual progress, etc.

In any case, I probably won't have time to listen to this week's podcast. Too much going on, and Sunday will be upon us before I have a chance. Hope you'll be back on next week. To me, the thing that makes the whole thing work is the balance of hosts. Taco kicking questions out to three of the best posters this forum has is a great formula.

So... you chimed in with this post, but didn't even listen to it? Ha!

You are simply amazing.

KO5K
10-05-2011, 03:14 PM
Loved the podcast once again guys.

Some of Rev's sarcastic comments were cracking me up!

Popps
10-05-2011, 03:16 PM
I'm sure there are better guests to be had. Like Drek, Mediator etc.

Actually, I would love to hear Wabbit chime in on the podcast if he was still around. He would be the Adam Schefter of the podcast.:~ohyah!:

To me, if you can get guys like Mediator on... you do it every time they want to be on.

JMO, but I just have little or no interest in hearing the average guy around the forum, outside of a call-in type situation. What's made this thing pique my interest is the talent Taco selected to do it. He managed to pick three of the very best, imo.

Anyway, look forward to catching next week's show if time allows. Thanks again to Taco for putting it together. Best thing the OM has done in a long time, imo.

Bronco Yoda
10-05-2011, 03:24 PM
DEATHSicle can provide better music, the 1st bumper was bad though the voice over intro was pointed in the right direction.

Just started to listen, I had a full day of dr's yesterday.

BTW Taco, DEATHSicle got DEATHSicles new synth, little mono Dave Smith Mopho. Hint, Hint!

I dig me some new Sicle :~ohyah!:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vtzeowlbkjs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Great job on the podcast by everyone.

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 04:13 PM
Btw, for Montrose, you asked me a question specifically last night and I was really so dumbfounded about it I couldn't put it into the appropriate words, but I think this might.

Regarding when you were comparing Champ to Harris and Lloyd to Willis about "best chance to win" and the gap between them and contrasting it with Orton and Tebow and the gap between them potentially being even bigger:

Who's more talented, Champ or Harris?

Who's more talented, Lloyd or Willis?

Who's more talented, Orton or Tebow?

...and the gap between them might be bigger than the other spots.

;)

GreatBronco16
10-05-2011, 04:57 PM
I think this was the best one yet. You need to keep Rev in there. I loved his takes and how he kept it real. All and all a great podcast.

However, the opening was kinda lame IMO. The music went way to long after you started talking.

Powderaddict
10-05-2011, 05:57 PM
I think this was the best one yet. You need to keep Rev in there. I loved his takes and how he kept it real. All and all a great podcast.

However, the opening was kinda lame IMO. The music went way to long after you started talking.

You have to admit the opening hotline call at the very beginning was EPIC :D :P

TheReverend
10-05-2011, 06:07 PM
I think this was the best one yet. You need to keep Rev in there. I loved his takes and how he kept it real. All and all a great podcast.

However, the opening was kinda lame IMO. The music went way to long after you started talking.

Wow thanks man.

I have a much more critical view of "how I did", but I certainly had a lot of fun doing it.

RE: Bolded statement

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TVXqJ3A6NWw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

GreatBronco16
10-05-2011, 06:45 PM
Wow thanks man.

I have a much more critical view of "how I did", but I certainly had a lot of fun doing it.

RE: Bolded statement

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TVXqJ3A6NWw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I just mean you could have went with the same song and dance optimistic look at things, but you kept to your colors that you show here. It was obvious that you had a lot more you could have critique about, but seemed like you held back.

You also had a good on air voice. Was easy to understand you.



And TJ, you are getting much better with the uhhhs and ummms. I can tell you are still fighting through it though.

This was just a great podcast.

GreatBronco16
10-05-2011, 06:46 PM
You have to admit the opening hotline call at the very beginning was EPIC :D :P

Was that you? If so, then yes it was EPIC!!!^5

Requiem
10-05-2011, 07:22 PM
I want SoCal's autograph!

Rock Chalk
10-05-2011, 08:03 PM
At this point I would completely disagree with the characterization that our entire FO including ownership and the CFO are a bunch of clowns pocketing all the money while screwing over the fans. What I heard made me think the group was already on the level of a Matt Millen regime with a little al davis thrown in.

I don't think that is the case... at all.

I think people are forgetting the mess this team was in when the season ended in january... Followed by lockout / followed by a truncated FA period camp schedule etc. Point is the deck is completely stacked against them this season. I think they have done an acceptable job so far and deserve more time to enact their "plan".

Let me give a quick example. Several years ago a former friend tried to rip me off through a business we co-owned. Long story short... I removed him from the business and walked head first into a **** storm not unlike the 2010 Broncos. Now I would love to tell you that I walked in made every correct decision and turned everything around in a matter of 6 months. Unfortunately life does not work that way... I didn't make every correct decision and it took a hell of a lot longer than 6 months to fix the mess my personal McDaniel's created... Point is we are jumping the gun, and it is way too early to characterize them as a bunch of incompetent thief's.

By this point in the McD regime we had traded our QB, blown the entire draft, suspended our WR, and were in the process of giving the all screen offense a go... A resounding WTF had been earned.


Now don't get too defensive Rev... I think everyone did a good job. I just think the tone was more helpless than it should be at this point.

I dont listen to these and this is one of the reasons why. Mike is allowed to talk. He has not been an objective fan since Shanahan got rightfully fired. He hates everything about the Broncos starting with Bowlen and Im sure he hates Elway now too.

Having him on there discredits the whole thing for me despite my desire to want to listen to guys like Kaylore and Rev talk.

Nothing...NOTHING will ever be good enough. Mike is of that instant gratification generation. This team has about 6 NFL starting players, and 18 or so quality backups. Its going to take years to undue the mess of ****ty (Defensive) drafts from the two prior regimes. Add to the fact that McDaniels traded away most of the good ****ing offensive talent (sans Cutler, **** that douchenozzle Im glad he's gone), and we have a LOT of work to do.

THere shouldnt be any bright sides section but to summarily categorize everything about the team from the Owner on down to the waterboy as crap is ludicrous and emotional drivel that's not worth listening to.

Popps
10-05-2011, 08:17 PM
Alec,

I think you'd be surprised with SoCal's demeanor on the podcasts. He tries to play it as professionally as he can, and seems to save his more radical views for the forum. By that I mean, he seems to try to look at it more as an objective fan... than one with an agenda. Again, Taco picked a good trio to do this thing. (Given, I only heard last week and the prior week's shows.)

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 08:45 PM
I dont listen to these and this is one of the reasons why. Mike is allowed to talk. He has not been an objective fan since Shanahan got rightfully fired. He hates everything about the Broncos starting with Bowlen and Im sure he hates Elway now too.

Having him on there discredits the whole thing for me despite my desire to want to listen to guys like Kaylore and Rev talk.

Nothing...NOTHING will ever be good enough. Mike is of that instant gratification generation. This team has about 6 NFL starting players, and 18 or so quality backups. Its going to take years to undue the mess of ****ty (Defensive) drafts from the two prior regimes. Add to the fact that McDaniels traded away most of the good ****ing offensive talent (sans Cutler, **** that douchenozzle Im glad he's gone), and we have a LOT of work to do.

THere shouldnt be any bright sides section but to summarily categorize everything about the team from the Owner on down to the waterboy as crap is ludicrous and emotional drivel that's not worth listening to.


You should give the podcasts a chance, they are very refreshing and their takes are one of the reasons I came here in the 1st place.

They are talking Bronco football.

strafen
10-05-2011, 09:02 PM
I dont listen to these and this is one of the reasons why. Mike is allowed to talk. He has not been an objective fan since Shanahan got rightfully fired. He hates everything about the Broncos starting with Bowlen and Im sure he hates Elway now too.

Having him on there discredits the whole thing for me despite my desire to want to listen to guys like Kaylore and Rev talk.

Nothing...NOTHING will ever be good enough. Mike is of that instant gratification generation. This team has about 6 NFL starting players, and 18 or so quality backups. Its going to take years to undue the mess of ****ty (Defensive) drafts from the two prior regimes. Add to the fact that McDaniels traded away most of the good ****ing offensive talent (sans Cutler, **** that douchenozzle Im glad he's gone), and we have a LOT of work to do.

THere shouldnt be any bright sides section but to summarily categorize everything about the team from the Owner on down to the waterboy as crap is ludicrous and emotional drivel that's not worth listening to.You're right, you haven't listened.
I'm sure if you did, that your personal takes on these guys will change.
I have come to appreciate the contributions of these guys even more now since I've been listening to the podcasts.
I like Rev, probably just as much as he likes me ROFL!, and the same with Kaylore, but my attitude towards them is different now.
They all were great, and of course the rest of the panel, Raj, Taco, Mike, etc...

There was a lot of Bronco stuff I wanted to hear. They all did a great job.

NFLBRONCO
10-05-2011, 09:07 PM
Props to TJ and the Panel I enjoyed padcasts thanks for doing them.

Dagmar
10-05-2011, 09:12 PM
So SoCal is Mike? Learn something new every day.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
10-05-2011, 09:37 PM
Very impressive guys. I feel between all of you, the opinions definitely represent the stances of most fans, including myself.

To me, this is the best Bronco discussion going right now.

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 09:41 PM
So SoCal is Mike? Learn something new every day.

Be like Mike!

BTW FYI my 1st name is Steven, my friends call me Steve but you can call me Steven! LOL

broncosteven
10-05-2011, 09:56 PM
I think this was the best one yet. You need to keep Rev in there. I loved his takes and how he kept it real. All and all a great podcast.

However, the opening was kinda lame IMO. The music went way to long after you started talking.


TJ had the right Idea having someone do a voice over Intro but the bumper music was on the right idea/plane but the music was lame.

DEATHSicle will have to throw something together over the weekend and call up some options for Taco to pick from.

He had the right idea of talking over the bumper music while bringing the volume slowly so there was an even transition from Intro to the start of the Podcast.

I thought it was well done and the production values have increased every week.

If they could all pop for a $100-150 USB Blue Yeti Pro mic the sound quality would be much better.

strafen
10-05-2011, 10:00 PM
Be like Mike!

BTW FYI my 1st name is Steven, my friends call me Steve but you can call me Steven! LOL

ROFL!LOL:strong:

montrose
10-05-2011, 10:34 PM
So how many people are following Raj on Twitter? ;)

Not enough baby!

<a href="http://www.twitter.com/Raj_Sharan"><img src="http://twitter-badges.s3.amazonaws.com/follow_me-c.png" alt="Follow Raj_Sharan on Twitter"/></a>

Unfortunately I have to agree the tone was overly negative for my taste.

I was thinking about this earlier. First and foremost, I need to remind myself the vast difference in audience between terrestrial radio and podcasting for a fan forum, the sophistication is just on another level. With that, I'd classify "bad radio" as hosts specifically trying to elicit an emotion from their listeners by picking on a game, player, coach, etc. In this instance, a large-picture issue of the state of the organization and its structure came about naturally without pre-planning (which generally makes for the best conversation) and their were some legitimate concerns brought up that were supported by anecdotes and examples. In addition, it was on a topic rarely if ever discussed on main-stream formats so I found it fresh and unique for one show. I suppose a natural follow-up could be a rebuttal (from you maybe?) on why the organization IS (or may be) moving in the right direction, why the structure IS (or may be) appropriate to rebuild the franchise, etc.

Montrose is going to be a Star

Thanks broski!

I was surprised Raj brought Shanny up more than the three of you combined.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't bring it up because the other three co-hosts are massive fans of Shanny - it was obviously something everybody on this site knows and considering how much the landscape has changed I thought it was appropriate to bring up in those situations to get their take on him - especially considering the "big picture" undertone that this show took opposed to the recap last week's game and get ready for this week's contest feel we've had the last few weeks.

With that, I've certainly noticed a paradigm shift on my behalf, overally I'm as emotionally uninvested to the team as any time in the last 15 years - despite the fact I spend more time around it than ever. There are a few reasons for that: the obvious one being the professional change my life as undertaken but also there's the factors of getting older, life re-priortization, etc. As I look back on my feelings in 2008/2009 I realize so much of what I believed and the way I interpreted those feelings was based on heavy emotion. As I stand back now and look at other team's decisions (in all sports) without that connection I realize that making rash decisions based on that emotion may not be for the best.

For example, a co-worker of mine who is a Red Sox fan was so charged up after their collapse he championed the exit of Terry Francona and I could only equate that to the way I felt in 2008 after the collapse here in Denver. Now while I would disagree with Taco that I remain unsold that the foundation here was on its way to greatness, I can clearly say that logically it made more sense to continue moving in that direction based on the evidence at that time. I was clouded by emotion, and suddenly the emotion took over my logic and I was happy about the change and rallied with belief around the new one despite the fact I was relatively content with it until about mid-way through 2008 and only after the firing began to self-justify why this was a wise move.

Obviously my emotionally-charged logic has been proven wrong and again while I'm not sold in the least the Broncos were on their way to competing for another Super Bowl, it certainly would've made more logical sense at the minimum to wait a few more days if not weeks before making any decision, putting more thought and structure to any potential change if it were to happen and finally considering the long-range financial and structural impact of making these massive moves so close to a pending NFL lockout and shift in the league's structure.

Obviously it's easy now as a Monday Morning QB, but I can now look at that instance and think to myself that if I could go back in time and advise Joe Ellis on what to do - I'd say, "It's not the greatest time, give him one more year to see the improvement but maybe put a little heat on him." If the 2009 season had shown little change or even a step back - it would've made more sense in a lot of ways. And there's always the chance (some, but not me, would argue inevitiability) that they would've made massive improvements in scoring offense, eliminating turnovers and overall defense - putting the franchise on the door steps of competing for another Super Bowl.

I'd say my line of thought has shifted quite a bit there as I become less of a fan each day and more of a story-teller/observer. In a way it's sad because this is what I've always wanted to do - and now I'm doing it - but you realize how it it's not as much "fun" as you'd think covering a football team would be. Then a wait a minute and think about all the ****ty jobs I and others have had and realize that giving up "fanhood" is well worth getting paid to bull**** about sports all day for a living.

Btw, for Montrose, you asked me a question specifically last night and I was really so dumbfounded about it I couldn't put it into the appropriate words, but I think this might.

Regarding when you were comparing Champ to Harris and Lloyd to Willis about "best chance to win" and the gap between them and contrasting it with Orton and Tebow and the gap between them potentially being even bigger:

Who's more talented, Champ or Harris?

Who's more talented, Lloyd or Willis?

Who's more talented, Orton or Tebow?

...and the gap between them might be bigger than the other spots.

;)

That's awesome. I desperately, desperately wish you could call into some Denver-sports stations. I'd venture to say 75%-plus of the talent in town either directly says or at least implies that anyone thinking Tebow could actually play at the NFL is a moronic fan that doesn't understand football and unfortantly, the majority of callers come across that way and those that don't get so angry and abrasive they're cut off quickly and dropped. These shows need to hear from a fan with a greater football IQ than them who can control his emotions and eliquently explain why Tebow not only could play but is a better option than Orton.

24champ
10-05-2011, 11:28 PM
Be like Mike!

BTW FYI my 1st name is Steven, my friends call me Steve but you can call me Steven! LOL

Thought you were going to legally change your name to Gene?

broncosteven
10-06-2011, 02:04 AM
Thought you were going to legally change your name to Gene?

Those are shoes that will never be filled again. I would like a better username here but never got around to changing it...

The Joker
10-06-2011, 06:51 AM
Listened today, really enjoyed it, great stuff.

Don't agree with the people saying it was overly negative, thought it managed to remain upbeat and fun and didn't seem like a bitchfest to me. Hard to be massively positive about this team right now, and if you guys are frustrated about or don't like things then you should say it... isn't that the point of a discussion?

Rev did a good job on his debut too, some nice analysis on the two huge pass plays we gave up, nice job man.

Looking forward to next week's show.

DrFate
10-06-2011, 07:41 AM
One mic just sounds muffled and the volume on each mic was vastly different.

SoCal sounds muffled. (and I like to hear what he has to say :) )

I enjoyed the podcast!

Chris
10-06-2011, 07:54 AM
I have to say I really appreciate when observations are coupled with informed opinion. I think that's what separates the Kaylores from the other guys on the forum - he notices things most people don't and he justifies his takes. If it becomes pure opinion where guys just rattle off without justification I see less value in it.

I'll repeat my offer to contact the IAOFM guys (run by a friend) and get some guests on here that exist outside our "ecosystem". Could be very interesting.

Kaylore
10-06-2011, 08:21 AM
I think you're right, Montrose. I think we just needed a dissenting opinion to balance things out. TheRev had a lot to share but didn't have time to share it.

TheReverend
10-06-2011, 08:43 AM
I think you're right, Montrose. I think we just needed a dissenting opinion to balance things out. TheRev had a lot to share but didn't have time to share it.

I still get that, but no one has yet to say anything they would've dissented about!

You mentioned the lemonade stand example, but that was clear hyperbole leading into SoCal's actual point.

Chris
10-06-2011, 08:59 AM
As regards the Shanahan firing and what to do / what wasn't done... I'd have stripped the guy of any personnel control. Have any owners ever retained coaches while removing some of their responsibility?

Taco John
10-06-2011, 09:28 AM
As regards the Shanahan firing and what to do / what wasn't done... I'd have stripped the guy of any personnel control. Have any owners ever retained coaches while removing some of their responsibility?

Wouldn't have worked, and wasn't necessary anyway. Shanahan was the Vice President of Football Operations. He wasn't taking a demotion. He didn't need to because when he was fired, he finally had a group that was making some good decisions and approaching the draft the right way.

The only thing Shanahan needed was one more year to use the record amount of draft picks and salary cap room that he had stockpiled. Even if we had fired him the next year, this organization would be light years ahead of where it is right now.

Chris
10-06-2011, 09:48 AM
I agree that we'd be ahead... but what defensive talent did the Goodmans draft? Dumervil. One elite pick on D in three drafts. Forgive me as I'm not entirely sure when they came into our scouting department while Sundquist was GM.

Defensive Draft Picks

2008

Backup - Josh Barrett (on our team), Jack Williams
Duds - Carlton Powell

2007

Backup - Marcus Thomas
Duds - Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder

2006

Elite starter - Elvis Dumervil

TheDave
10-06-2011, 09:53 AM
I agree that we'd be ahead... but what defensive talent did the Goodmans draft? Dumervil. One elite pick on D in three drafts. Forgive me as I'm not entirely sure when they came into our scouting department while Sundquist was GM.

Defensive Draft Picks

2008

Backup - Josh Barrett (on our team), Jack Williams
Duds - Carlton Powell

2007

Backup - Marcus Thomas
Duds - Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder

2006

Elite starter - Elvis Dumervil

Fwiw... Where we were drafting I think shanny would have drafted Orakpo.

Him and Doom would have been nice in 2009.

hambone13
10-07-2011, 12:53 AM
Again let me first start by stating this, I really like the pod cast. However, the constant b****ing and finger pointing about who is at fault is tiring. Socal's Venom for Bowlen, Everyone else's venom against Orton takes away a lot of the great parts.

I understand it's a round table discussion but I am so Orton/Tebow'd out....

Given you Av.....well let's just leave it at that.

CEH
10-08-2011, 08:32 AM
Who just said how does Miller's 4 sacks compare to Peterson's one turnover and 7 points on a punt return.

Simple

Miller has 2 forced fumbles inside the oponents red zone setting up the offense to score 7 and win 2 games. Had they scored we are now 3-1.
Can't ask for more 4 games in. A direct impact on winning from the defensive side of the ball

Big wow Peterson returned a punt for a TD but is getting torched at this postion is on pace to be the next Antrelle Rolle

What we really need to do is trade DJ and free up that $5MM to pay a decent CB like Joesph to start opposite Champ. That would have been a coup and a great FA move

TheReverend
10-08-2011, 08:55 AM
Who just said how does Miller's 4 sacks compare to Peterson's one turnover and 7 points on a punt return.

Simple

Miller has 2 forced fumbles inside the oponents red zone setting up the offense to score 7 and win 2 games. Had they scored we are now 3-1.
Can't ask for more 4 games in. A direct impact on winning from the defensive side of the ball

Big wow Peterson returned a punt for a TD but is getting torched at this postion is on pace to be the next Antrelle Rolle

What we really need to do is trade DJ and free up that $5MM to pay a decent CB like Joesph to start opposite Champ. That would have been a coup and a great FA move

Had he forced the fumbles and recovered em, for sure. An INT is simply more valuable than a FF and a TD much more valuable than either.

Quite frankly, an extra 7 in week 1 (or 3) puts Denver at 2-2 and a lot more optimistic moving forward.

Certainly not saying we made the wrong pick, but both have made large impacts so far into their careers and making absolute conclusions based on 4 games of hopefully LONG careers is the epitome of ridiculousness and why I tried to avoid even talking about it several times.

PS. He's really NOT getting torched at his position...

CEH
10-08-2011, 09:15 AM
Had he forced the fumbles and recovered em, for sure. An INT is simply more valuable than a FF and a TD much more valuable than either.

Quite frankly, an extra 7 in week 1 (or 3) puts Denver at 2-2 and a lot more optimistic moving forward.

Certainly not saying we made the wrong pick, but both have made large impacts so far into their careers and making absolute conclusions based on 4 games of hopefully LONG careers is the epitome of ridiculousness and why I tried to avoid even talking about it several times.

PS. He's really NOT getting torched at his position...

But Denver did recovered both forced fumbles so I'm not sure what you are saying an INT is more valuable than the 2 FF recovered by Denver. If the offense was semi compentent Denver would be 3-1 right now thanks in large part to Von Miller

Peterson's a rookie and is learning the ropes ala Shawn Springs back in the day but the jury is still out if he's quick twitch enough to remain at CB

TheReverend
10-08-2011, 09:16 AM
But Denver did recovered both forced fumbles so I'm not sure what you are saying an INT is more valuable than the 2 FF recovered by Denver. If the offense was semi compentent Denver would be 3-1 right now thanks in large part to Von Miller

Peterson's a rookie and is learning the ropes ala Shawn Springs back in the day but the jury is still out if he's quick twitch enough to remain at CB

No, I'm saying individually an INT is worth more than a FF. Unless it's a FF and a FR. There's nothing debatable about that.

Sim Pilot 4.0
10-08-2011, 03:28 PM
I finally got a chance to listen to a couple of these podcasts. I like them. Job well done.

CEH
10-08-2011, 03:55 PM
No, I'm saying individually an INT is worth more than a FF. Unless it's a FF and a FR. There's nothing debatable about that.

BTW Great job on your first podcast. And great job to all involved