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View Full Version : Trade Tebow Now, heís falling behind the curve


BroncoBuff
10-02-2011, 10:41 PM
Just did a bit of research with depressing results. Get this: Going back 6 years, all but two QBs drafted in Round 1 started most or all his rookie season (research below).

Rookie Tim was given a measly 3 starts on a 4-12 team in full-on self destruct mode. It doesn't look any better in Year 2 under new management. Admittedly, John Fox tried IT once, but IT didn't work. It's not that Tebow "isn't ready yet," because every 1st rounder has been "ready." The problem is he's never gonna be ready in their eyes.

Them's the facts folks. Tim has fallen decidedly behind the standard young QB curve, with no relief in sight. Silver lining is one of the Florida teams, probably the Jaguars, would jump at the chance to trade for him. Gabbert's still unproven, McCown sucks, and they're losing $$$ fast.

I say trade him NOW, and start fresh in the 2012 draft. Might not get Andrew Luck, but Landry Jones is fan-freaking-tastic, a can't miss pro.



____________________________


RULE: Last 6 years, 1st Round QBs have started most or all their rookie seasons: Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert so far, Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco, Mark Sanchez, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Josh Freeman, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Jay Cutler, even Matt Leinart started 11 as a rookie. Two guys drafted after Tebow last year started most of their rookie seasons, Colt McCoy and Jimmy Claussen.

Other than current rookies Locker and Ponder, the ONLY TWO EXCEPTIONS to the 1st rounders starting most their rookie seasons: Tim Tebow and ... wait for it ... Brady Quinn. *SIGH*

MagicHef
10-02-2011, 10:49 PM
Is there a good place near Dove Valley for some effigies?

broncocalijohn
10-02-2011, 10:50 PM
We collect them and then save them like collectibles.

IHaveALight
10-02-2011, 10:52 PM
How about we let him f***ing play and see what he can do?

SoCalBronco
10-02-2011, 10:56 PM
No.

We're not going to let the FO/staff off the hook that easily. It's clear Tebow isn't "their man". I thought we were supposed to be learning from this whole McD "I gotta get my guy" type of thing. No....they're going to work with Tebow because they're allegedly professionals. We don't give a **** whether you're comfortable with him or whether he's your guy. They've treated him shabbily from the word go and repeated that again, today. And now you want to reward the staff for this behavior by allowing them to let Tebow go? No. Tebow's going to stay there, in the background, putting pressure on the staff in unspoken ways and creating awkwardness. They've acted like assholes this whole time...and now somebody's gotta pay. Tebow's going nowhere.

If Tebow has fallen behind the curve...that's the staff's fault. Instead of not giving him reps at practice and basically forcing him to volunteer to do other stuff (as has been reported), why don't you give him reps to get him up to speed? The staff has completely mismanaged this from the very beginning. Don't let them off the hook. They WILL work with Tebow and develop him. The fanbase needs to keep the pressure up. Force them to crack, bring them to their knees. They are already cracking. Keep it going.

epicSocialism4tw
10-02-2011, 11:01 PM
Steve Young. Aaron Rogers.

Tebow has already played more than either of them to open their careres.

extralife
10-02-2011, 11:03 PM
Of course, the QBs you are conveniently eliding over in your "analysis" are Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers. They ain't bad.

Ratboy
10-02-2011, 11:05 PM
Steve Young. Aaron Rogers.

Tebow has already played more than either of them to open their careres.

So you're telling me Kyle Orton is going to the Hall of Fame?

BroncoBuff
10-02-2011, 11:12 PM
Went back just six years guys.

Allow me to point out Rodgers and Rivers sat behind a Hall-of-Famer and likely Hall-of-Famer.

strafen
10-02-2011, 11:15 PM
Steve Young. Aaron Rogers.

Tebow has already played more than either of them to open their careres.

Yeah, but Young was backing up Joe Montana, and Rogers backing up Brett Favre, I can see why they couldn't break into the starting line-up.

What we're talking here is completely different, we're talking Tebow backing up Kyle "mother****in'" Orton.
You're comparing apples to oranges...

epicSocialism4tw
10-02-2011, 11:16 PM
Went back just six years guys.

Allow me to point out Rodgers and Rivers sat behind a Hall-of-Famer and likely Hall-of-Famer.

The name "Steve DeBerg" should ring some bells.

epicSocialism4tw
10-02-2011, 11:18 PM
Yeah, but Young was backing up Joe Montana, and Rogers backing up Brett Favre, I can see why they couldn't break into the starting line-up.

What we're talking here is completely different, we're talking Tebow backing up Kyle "mother****in'" Orton.
You're comparing apples to oranges...

Tebow has already played, and he played very well.

Tebow is ready to roll.

Meanwhile our front office is pondering the wonders of magnets and the mystery of how they work.

BroncoBuff
10-02-2011, 11:20 PM
The name "Steve DeBerg" should ring some bells.

You mean John? He "sat behind" DeBerg for maybe six games.

maven
10-02-2011, 11:29 PM
I would trade him, but not yet. Lets see where Denver picks in the draft. If Denver gets the #1 pick or can acquire the #1 via trade to select Andrew Luck, then yes trade him.

DB-Freak
10-02-2011, 11:30 PM
please just let us have him.

epicSocialism4tw
10-02-2011, 11:34 PM
You mean John? He "sat behind" DeBerg for maybe six games.

Tebow sat behind Orton for 13, and now another 4. Odds are fairly decent that Tebow will only sit another game.

maven
10-02-2011, 11:37 PM
please just let us have him.

:pray::pray::pray::pray::pray:

MacGruder
10-02-2011, 11:58 PM
Went back just six years guys.

Allow me to point out Rodgers and Rivers sat behind a Hall-of-Famer and likely Hall-of-Famer.

Kyle Orton and John Fox seem to think Kyle Orton is a Hall of famer...

Should point out that Josh didn't start Tebow even once, despite his dismal 3-9 record when fired.



I get the impression Josh didn't play Tebow because he was protecting Tebow from the team. Elway said something to that affect recently too. But I think Fox may be using that as an excuse because he loves Orton's game so much..

Pick Six
10-02-2011, 11:58 PM
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. We need Tebow's athleticism and work ethic. I just don't know if quarterback is a suitable position for him. No offense to Spencer Larsen, but make Tebow a fullback. He could be Denver's most dominant fullback since Howard Griffith. I'm very serious...

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 12:03 AM
PLEASE don't get so Luck-obsessed that anything less is a disappointment. Landry Jones is the real deal, projected mid-high first rounder. Size, smarts, arm strength, accuracy ... plus he's cool under fire and plays through injuries. Stepped right in for Bradford, with barely a blip.

maven
10-03-2011, 12:03 AM
Tebow should be playing the entire season. I'm very skeptical of Tebow, but I can see he should be given a chance. Should've been starting since the 1st day of practice. Trade him now? For what? You hold onto him going into the draft. I've been skeptical of Bradford as I am JOnes.

There is a real gem of a QB entering next April. Do what you have to do John to make it happen. Tebow isn't your guy, so go get your own.

Archer81
10-03-2011, 12:04 AM
Tebow should play. Logically, with a team in rebuild mode you want guys who will be here beyond a year that you can grow a program with.

However, in Denver we rebuild with pocket sloths. I would also be concerned for any rookie player coming in with a vet ahead of him. The rookie could be an all-pro, but the vet would probably still get the start. Just the vibe I get from the coaching staff.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 12:05 AM
But I think Fox may be using that as an excuse because he loves Orton's game so much..

LOL

epicSocialism4tw
10-03-2011, 12:05 AM
Should point out Josh didn't start Tebow either. Not even once, despite his dismal 3-9 record when fired.

And please don't get so Luck-obsessed that anything less is a disappointment. Landry Jones is the real deal. Size, smarts, arm strength, accuracy ... plus he's cool under fire and plays through injuries. Stepped right in for Bradford, with barely a blip.

I'm a huge OU fan and have been since I moved there as a child in 1981. Watch every OU game every season. Landry is a good player with alot of promise, but I'm not sure I'd want him here over Tebow. There is still some hesitancy to his game, and he's not close to as good a player as Bradford was. Landry is a lot like Troy Aikman. A pure passer with a pretty good arm who can make all of the throws, but he doesn't have the wow factor that the great pro prospects have.

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 12:51 AM
I'm a huge OU fan and have been since I moved there as a child in 1981. Watch every OU game every season. Landry is a good player with alot of promise, but I'm not sure I'd want him here over Tebow. There is still some hesitancy to his game, and he's not close to as good a player as Bradford was. Landry is a lot like Troy Aikman. A pure passer with a pretty good arm who can make all of the throws, but he doesn't have the wow factor that the great pro prospects have.

I go back a few years with Landry ... you probably recall he took Oklahoma and Colorado down to the wire before signing out of high school. The Artesia NM high school football program is very impressive, I watched a couple of his games online.

Somebody transferred out late from OU, so Jones unexpectedly jumped to #2 on the depth chart entering '09 as a RS Freshman. Of course Bradford went down in Week 1, so there he was, a starter in just his 2nd game in uniform. Made some mistakes no doubt, but that kid has some brass ones, he came out firing, 40 - 50 passes a game, all over the yard. Gotta love that.

maven
10-03-2011, 01:00 AM
Tebow should play. Logically, with a team in rebuild mode you want guys who will be here beyond a year that you can grow a program with.

However, in Denver we rebuild with pocket sloths. I would also be concerned for any rookie player coming in with a vet ahead of him. The rookie could be an all-pro, but the vet would probably still get the start. Just the vibe I get from the coaching staff.

:Broncos:

Look around the team. Orton? Need I say more. I question why Dawkins is out there. Goodman? Ty Warren signing? I wouldn't have given Champ that contract. If you're going to rebuild, f'n do it. Play Tebow and see what happens.

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 01:05 AM
Look around the team. Orton? Need I say more. I question why Dawkins is out there. Goodman? Ty Warren signing? I wouldn't have given Champ that contract. If you're going to rebuild, f'n do it. Play Tebow and see what happens.

Damn ... couldn't have said it better myself, every word :thumbs:

In this mother of all rebuilding years, patience is vital. John's gut pains during the Bengals game is not patience, it's permitting your competitive fire to reign over patience and discipline.


Landry is a good player with alot of promise, but I'm not sure I'd want him here over Tebow.

Disagree, disagree ....

I view Landry Jones as a classic pro-style quarterback who can make all the throws. Similar to Troy Aikman or maybe Carson Palmer.

And to be honest, Tebow seems like a bigger version of Bradlee Van Pelt. That's harsh, but that's what I see. Fiery rah-rah, and runs way too much.

Rohirrim
10-03-2011, 02:42 AM
Tebow could have killed all this controversy by simply taking the job from Orton. He couldn't do that. From all appearances, he has trouble outdoing Quinn.

fontaine
10-03-2011, 03:15 AM
Tebow could have killed all this controversy by simply taking the job from Orton. He couldn't do that. From all appearances, he has trouble outdoing Quinn.

Now there's a novel concept. A backup actually showing something the coaches can build on.

I guess that kind of logic doesn't apply in a popularity contest.

Either way, Tebow will get his start soon. Let's just hope he can show more in live games than he did in training camp.

Drek
10-03-2011, 03:54 AM
Tebow could have killed all this controversy by simply taking the job from Orton. He couldn't do that. From all appearances, he has trouble outdoing Quinn.

When could he have done this?

In the practices in which only Orton got any real time with the first team?

Or in pre-season games when again only Orton got any time with the first team?

If you truly believe we had a QB competition you're a gullible fool.

Agamemnon
10-03-2011, 04:24 AM
This is one of the most depressing episodes in the history of the Broncos. To keep playing Orton rather than giving a young, athletic, fiery guy a chance just makes me want to vomit.

AlphaSeirra
10-03-2011, 04:59 AM
Yeah, but Young was backing up Joe Montana, and Rogers backing up Brett Favre, I can see why they couldn't break into the starting line-up.

What we're talking here is completely different, we're talking Tebow backing up Kyle "mother****in'" Orton.
You're comparing apples to oranges...

LOL -- What he said....
====================

Fox - "We're gonna have a 'Fair' QB competition in the preseason."
Quinn - 69 PER
Orton - 104 PER
Tebow - 108 PER (ZERO INT's)
(some claim Tebow was then relegated to 4th string QB?) thwack

We're playing the QB that gives the Broncos the 'Best' chance to win.... (short and/or long term?)

2011 - 3rd in AFC-W 1-3-0 (best chance to lose, it seems to me)

Pts/Gm 20.2 ---- (21'st)
Yds/Gm 310.8 --- (24th)
Pass Yds 224.0 -- (23rd)
Rush Yds 86.8 --- (27th)
Turnover Ratio --- (- 6)

2011 Orton -- 59.9%, 6.7 yds/Att, 8 TD's to 6 Ints, (1.3 to 1) Sacks - 9 for 49 yds, PER 80.9

2010 Tebow -- 50%, 8.0 yds/Att, 5 TD's to 3 Ints, (1.6 to 1) Sacks 6 for 26 yds, PER 82.1 <<< (plus 5.3 ypc)

PS
2011 Lloyd -- Zero TD catches.
2010 Lloyd w/TT -- 14 rec, 2 TD catches, 18.8 yds/rec.
==============

Either play him or TRADE him, one of the other.
To do neither is a DISS-service to both Tim and to the Bronco faithful imoho.

fontaine
10-03-2011, 05:10 AM
When could he have done this?
In the practices in which only Orton got any real time with the first team?

Or in pre-season games when again only Orton got any time with the first team?

If you truly believe we had a QB competition you're a gullible fool.

1. In the offseason by working independantly with QB gurus who could help him with basics like his center exchange, throwing motion, making presnap reads. Even a casual observer like Phil Simms noted that there was only minor improvement in Tebows mechanics/throwing motion.

2. In the first few days of training camp where even independant observers noted how poorly he played.

Fox and co didn't rework their entire offense to suit Tebow so yes, that's on them. I guess in a shortened off season they had bigger priorities than to completely dedicate themselves to a long term project QB with bigger more immediate concerns elsewhere.

The ONLY reason Fox is getting all this is because Tebow wins the popularity contest. Quinn/Weber didn't get a shot either after the first couple of days either but no one is b*tching/whining and complaining about those guys.

But never mind that Fox and co were installing a brand new 4-3 defense, incorporating three rookies into the starting lineup, getting up to speed with the rest of the holdovers as well as the new FAs in a shortened off season where training camp was the FIRST time they got a good look at their players. Fox and co should have dropped all of that just to cater full time to a long term project QB and baby him along.

That's exactly the kind of bullsh*t McDaniels QB/passing game narrow focus that got us one of the worst defenses/run games in franchise history.

Wasn't Tebow hyped up as a guy with one of the greatest work ethics ever?

Yeah, it's been more than a year and half and he was still struggling with the freakin' center exchange in preseason games. At this rate he might learn to make pre snap reads, take a 5 step drop effeciently by the year 2060.

AlphaSeirra
10-03-2011, 05:19 AM
Tebow should be playing the entire season.

Agree totally with that statement.

There is a real gem of a QB entering next April. Do what you have to do John to make it happen. Tebow isn't your guy, so go get your own.

And what is 'John' going to do with ANY QB, current roster or drafted that he gets?

He's not going to be coaching the QB no matter who that is.

He's not going to be calling the plays on game days, no matter who the QB is.

Exactly what 'role' do you see for John in the Broncos organization anyway?

And what is the role that John has already outlined for himself in his own statements?

PS
How do you determine which QB to draft in 2012?
Since what ANY QB did in college has ZERO meaning in the NFL?
(in fact, what a QB does IN the NFL and in the 2011 preseason seems to mean nothing,,, if you're a certain Bronco QB) ???

But essentially I agree and have said so repeatedly, either play Tim or trade/cut him.

montrose
10-03-2011, 05:57 AM
They couldnt trade him now if they wanted to, IMO. They've depreciated his value, he has limited game tape, a 1st round QB contract and is a player the league (for the most part) stayed clear of. Who in the hell is going to give up compensation to inherit that?

I think the more likely scenerio is that Tim Tebow will be cut by the Denver Broncos at some point between now and the 2012 season. And before the counter that the fanbase will be in an uproar and cause anarchy... I think they've proven since the day John Fox was hired they dont give a **** what you think.

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 06:04 AM
They couldnt trade him now if they wanted to, IMO. They've depreciated his value, he has limited game tape, a 1st round QB contract and is a player the league (for the most part) stayed clear of. Who in the hell is going to give up compensation to inherit that?

He would fill some seats and sell some swag for the cash poor Jags, wouldn't he? As long as Gabbert doesn't improve too quick, seems like a win-win, kin of.

That's it montrose, "They've depreciated his value." That's the point of this thread ... refuse to play him? Then cut bait and get some return, fast. We'll start fresh next Spring with Luck or Jones or Barkley.

Wow, I just let out a deep involuntary exhale typing that. "Start fresh," what a concept.

AlphaSeirra
10-03-2011, 06:06 AM
1. Phil Simms noted that there was only minor improvement in Tebows mechanics/throwing motion..

A total crockofchit when talking about the actual on the field stats, Tebow had the #1 Rookie PER 82.1, and the best Bronco preseason PER 108.

"basics like his center exchange"

Tebow had ZERO lost possession FUMBLES on his 84 plays in 2010, 43 times where he also ran the ball after the center exchange, against NFL Defenses.

2. In the first few days of training camp where even independant observers noted how poorly he played.

Yep, the actual on the field preseason stats mean nothing compared to those first few days of camp....
Quinn 69 PER
Orton 104 PER
Tebow 108 PER (plus an additional 6.4 ypc)

Fox and co didn't rework their entire offense to suit Tebow so yes, that's on them. I guess in a shortened off season they had bigger priorities than to completely dedicate themselves to a long term project QB with bigger more immediate concerns elsewhere.
The ONLY reason Fox is getting all this is because Tebow wins the popularity contest.

Fox and co should have dropped all of that (defense & newbees) just to cater full time to a long term project QB and baby him along.

WTF are you babbling about?
Tim did just fine in last years offense, 82.1 PER + 5.3 ypc.
Tim was the best of the Broncos in THIS years offense, 108 PER + 6.4 ypc.
Both are DIFFERENT from what he ran at UF, so it looks to me like he is very adaptabe and picks up different offenses with ease, especially as a POORLY COACHED rookie.

At this rate he might learn to make pre snap reads, (108 PER + 6.4 ypc) take a 5 step drop effeciently (least sacked) by the year 2060.

Sure thing bucko, and at this rate, you might overcome your own stupidity by the year 2525....

But some here still have the nerve to try and brow-beat any Tebow backer for using actual game stats in support of Tim.... :wave:

elsid13
10-03-2011, 06:09 AM
They couldnt trade him now if they wanted to, IMO. They've depreciated his value, he has limited game tape, a 1st round QB contract and is a player the league (for the most part) stayed clear of. Who in the hell is going to give up compensation to inherit that?

I think the more likely scenerio is that Tim Tebow will be cut by the Denver Broncos at some point between now and the 2012 season. And before the counter that the fanbase will be in an uproar and cause anarchy... I think they've proven since the day John Fox was hired they dont give a **** what you think.


He is 1st round QB, because McDaniels fell in love with him, that doesn't mean other teams see him the same way. Based upon on how McDaniels and Xanders selected talent and their success rate, there is far chance that they selected the wrong guy to play QB.

Does anyone believe that Fox wouldn't insert him if his offense coaching staff (which has watch Tebow for the last year plus) didn't tell him he ready to go? If Tebow isn't showing something in the QB meeting and the film room he ain't getting on the field.

AlphaSeirra
10-03-2011, 06:16 AM
They couldnt trade him now if they wanted to, IMO. They've depreciated his value, he has limited game tape, a 1st round QB contract and is a player the league (for the most part) stayed clear of. Who in the hell is going to give up compensation to inherit that?

I think the more likely scenerio is that Tim Tebow will be cut by the Denver Broncos at some point between now and the 2012 season. And before the counter that the fanbase will be in an uproar and cause anarchy... I think they've proven since the day John Fox was hired they dont give a **** what you think.

One sure way to find out, throw him out there on the trading block and then watch what happens, and how fast it does happen.

Plus, if he's not going to be the Bronco QB, and if he has no trade value, then why not just cut him now and save the bucks for next year?
After all, Tim has NO FUTURE as a Bronco QB and therefore no real value.

Now, looking at all four Bronco QB's and how they are being used,,, and not used, exactly HOW SMART is your current Bronco staff/leadership (Bowlen-Elway-Fox) anyway? ???

It might just be a HUGE favor to Tim, for the Broncos to dump him and separate themselves from such a loser. :yayaya:

oubronco
10-03-2011, 06:17 AM
1. In the offseason by working independantly with QB gurus who could help him with basics like his center exchange, throwing motion, making presnap reads. Even a casual observer like Phil Simms noted that there was only minor improvement in Tebows mechanics/throwing motion.

2. In the first few days of training camp where even independant observers noted how poorly he played.

Fox and co didn't rework their entire offense to suit Tebow so yes, that's on them. I guess in a shortened off season they had bigger priorities than to completely dedicate themselves to a long term project QB with bigger more immediate concerns elsewhere.

The ONLY reason Fox is getting all this is because Tebow wins the popularity contest. Quinn/Weber didn't get a shot either after the first couple of days either but no one is b*tching/whining and complaining about those guys.

But never mind that Fox and co were installing a brand new 4-3 defense, incorporating three rookies into the starting lineup, getting up to speed with the rest of the holdovers as well as the new FAs in a shortened off season where training camp was the FIRST time they got a good look at their players. Fox and co should have dropped all of that just to cater full time to a long term project QB and baby him along.

That's exactly the kind of bullsh*t McDaniels QB/passing game narrow focus that got us one of the worst defenses/run games in franchise history.

Wasn't Tebow hyped up as a guy with one of the greatest work ethics ever?

Yeah, it's been more than a year and half and he was still struggling with the freakin' center exchange in preseason games. At this rate he might learn to make pre snap reads, take a 5 step drop effeciently by the year 2060.

The truth hurts :strong:

jhns
10-03-2011, 06:32 AM
Tebow outproduces the starter by a lot and some of you claim he can't play as you also claim it is smart to play the less productive player. You Ortonites are as dumb as Fox...

But the worst head coach in the NFL claims Orton is good!!!

bendog
10-03-2011, 06:34 AM
great thread. He STARTED OUT BEHIND THE CURVE BECAUSE OF mEYER.

AlphaSeirra
10-03-2011, 06:37 AM
He is 1st round QB, because McDaniels fell in love with him, that doesn't mean other teams see him the same way. Based upon on how McDaniels and Xanders selected talent and their success rate, there is far chance that they selected the wrong guy to play QB.

Does anyone believe that Fox wouldn't insert him if his offense coaching staff (which has watch Tebow for the last year plus) didn't tell him he ready to go? If Tebow isn't showing something in the QB meeting and the film room he ain't getting on the field.

Tebow was the #1 Rookie QB in 2010 with an 82.1 PER + a 5.3 ypc running the ball.

Tebow IS the #1 Bronco QB in the 2011 preseason with a 108 PER + a 6.4 ypc running the ball.

What a complete loser moron with ZERO NFL QB skills......

What Tim really needs is a decent/fair staff, and a quality HBC that believes in him, neither of which currently exists in Denver. JMOHO ;)

However in a poll held during the preseason by the Orlando Sentinel:

Who is more popular?

Jags

Bucs

Phins

Tebow

Tim got over 75% of the total vote.
Tim's more popular in Florida than all three Pro teams put together, by a factor of 3.

There are also other non-Florida teams that might be interested in him, like maybe the Colts.... :sunshine:

DrFate
10-03-2011, 06:40 AM
great thread. He STARTED OUT BEHIND THE CURVE BECAUSE OF mEYER.

I really fail to understand this line of reasoning. Cam Newton started at Florida. Newton played in an Auburn system very similiar to that run by Florida. Both Tebow and Newton excelled at that level.

Newton proved he was entirely unprepared to play in the NFL (as evidenced by his time with Gruden). He didn't even understand basic terminology.

Newton, who was handed the job, is throwing for 400 yards a game. The offensive coaches have tweaked their system to best utilize his rare physical skills, and he's looking like ROY.

Tebow is sitting behind a career journeyman and all the Ortonbrigade talk about is the finer mechanical points of 5 step drops.

rbackfactory80
10-03-2011, 06:43 AM
Trade him now. It would be easier for me to root for Kyle if Tim wasn't around and Kyle was our only option.


They don't believe in Tim, it's so dam obvious. Sucks though.

oubronco
10-03-2011, 06:46 AM
Shytcan the whole fuggin crappy ass team we need some fuggin talent on this team

jhns
10-03-2011, 06:49 AM
I say trade him. He can come out playing exactly like he did in his rookie year and show us that Fox needs fired. It would be great if we could find a decent decision maker to bring in the next head coach.

elsid13
10-03-2011, 06:50 AM
You know what funny at it core this is the same offense from last season. Same terminology and concepts. It not like Orton, Quinn or Tebow had to relearn everything.

bendog
10-03-2011, 06:57 AM
You know what funny at it core this is the same offense from last season. Same terminology and concepts. It not like Orton, Quinn or Tebow had to relearn everything.

I don't think that's really correct. Outside of preseason, yesterday was the first game I watched, but Den's 14th in rushing this year and was dead last last year. Gotta run the ball to win in the NFL. It's a horrible team personnel wise, which with Orton is why I wouldn't pay bowlen a dime for his product, but from what I saw yesterday, there's much less p***Y factor to this year's team.

But if it's terminolgy, and just that, you're probably correct. Fox does seem to be moving towards his power run offense, and frankly last year seemed to be Knowshow to the line with no hold, falldown. So, I have no idea what McD was scheming.

jhns
10-03-2011, 06:58 AM
I don't think that's really correct. Outside of preseason, yesterday was the first game I watched, but Den's 14th in rushing this year and was dead last last year. Gotta run the ball to win in the NFL. It's a horrible team personnel wise, which with Orton is why I wouldn't pay bowlen a dime for his product, but from what I saw yesterday, there's much less p***Y factor to this year's team.

So you really don't watch the games? Big surprise!

bendog
10-03-2011, 06:59 AM
So you really don't watch the games? Big surprise!

fk you jizZz

jhns
10-03-2011, 07:06 AM
fk you jizZz

No thanks.

Don't worry, it was obvious before you said it. Not many can actually watch what is happening and still be as wrong as you about everything. Good luck with that fake fan stuff though.

montrose
10-03-2011, 07:21 AM
He would fill some seats and sell some swag for the cash poor Jags, wouldn't he? As long as Gabbert doesn't improve too quick, seems like a win-win, kin of.

Jacksonville had a 5th round grade on him, no interest whatsoever. The other teams that I recall had interest in him were NE, Buffalo and Minnesota. Those teams can wait to sign him as a cheap FA.

Does anyone believe that Fox wouldn't insert him if his offense coaching staff (which has watch Tebow for the last year plus) didn't tell him he ready to go? If Tebow isn't showing something in the QB meeting and the film room he ain't getting on the field.

Bingo. Just as Josh McDaniels (and Mike Shanahan until he ran out of RBs) deemed Peyton Hillis wan't good enough to hit the field because of his performance on the practice field, same goes for Tim Tebow.

One sure way to find out, throw him out there on the trading block and then watch what happens, and how fast it does happen.

Rumor was they fielded calls on him near the end of camp but there was little interest.

Plus, if he's not going to be the Bronco QB, and if he has no trade value, then why not just cut him now and save the bucks for next year? After all, Tim has NO FUTURE as a Bronco QB and therefore no real value.

Well since they've already paid him his bonus, they can still get financial value. Remember they put him on the front of the season ticket renewal package, offered a limited edition poster of him to ticket holders who renewed in full early and he's easily they're most marketed player (i.e. fans aren't custom ordering Tebow jerseys because they cant find them, one trip to the Broncos team store or a retailer and they're easily producing twice as much merchandise for him than any other player).

Finally they can tease fans he'll eventually play as lng as he's on the roster. Once they cut him, that's gone. That's why I think they'll wait as long as possible and continue to milk the cow before releasing him.

bendog
10-03-2011, 07:51 AM
They can't just release him. If there's no hope the guy can play under center, they'll have to let the fans see. And then they'll have to eat having to spend another one pick on a qb. The Steelers picked Hanratty and then Bradshaw, so having to eat a one isn't a sure killer, but it'd hurt the rebuild.

People post that he'll go on to have success elsewhere, but he won't if he can't execute an NFL offense. Let's hope he can. It's disappointing that his work ethic was his supposed strong suit, and then he goes off on a book tour rather than hiring a private qb coach. I was neutral on the kid up until then. I'm a doubter after that. And it pissed me off. I'd been looking forward to seeing him.

DrFate
10-03-2011, 07:54 AM
Well since they've already paid him his bonus

they can tease fans he'll eventually play as lng as he's on the roster.

Is the latter worth the former? (to say nothing of further alienating the fanbase?)

jhns
10-03-2011, 07:56 AM
They can't just release him. If there's no hope the guy can play under center, they'll have to let the fans see. And then they'll have to eat having to spend another one pick on a qb. The Steelers picked Hanratty and then Bradshaw, so having to eat a one isn't a sure killer, but it'd hurt the rebuild.

People post that he'll go on to have success elsewhere, but he won't if he can't execute an NFL offense. Let's hope he can. It's disappointing that his work ethic was his supposed strong suit, and then he goes off on a book tour rather than hiring a private qb coach. I was neutral on the kid up until then. I'm a doubter after that. And it pissed me off. I'd been looking forward to seeing him.

You don't even watch the games. How would you know what he can and can't do?

Leading an offense that is number seven in the league is just proof that he can't play in the NFL!

Now you are going on about his work ethic? You just can't get any dumber.

TonyR
10-03-2011, 07:57 AM
...Going back 6 years, all but two QBs drafted in Round 1 started most or all his rookie season...

One big thing you're leaving out here is that most of those guys were actually considered pro QB prospects. Tebow was largely considered a project with little chance of ever being an NFL QB. All that said, I'd still prefer that he play this year over Orton.

peacepipe
10-03-2011, 08:21 AM
I would trade him, but not yet. Lets see where Denver picks in the draft. If Denver gets the #1 pick or can acquire the #1 via trade to select Andrew Luck, then yes trade him.

noone is going to trade away the opportunity to draft Andrew Luck.

bendog
10-03-2011, 08:22 AM
Jizz, let me end communications to you with this. I'll pay to watch Tebow play. I think the odds are about 70-30 that he's not going to make it, but it'd be entertaining to see how it works out. Its not EFX's fault that he didn't work on mechanics this offseason, but still giving Bowlen anything is just enabling a guy, which btw is what posting to youd accomplishes. But, I don't think Elway would have taken the job unless he thought Bowlen was committed to winning.

montrose
10-03-2011, 08:23 AM
Is the latter worth the former? (to say nothing of further alienating the fanbase?)

I dont know. Only thing we've learned thus far when it comes to the QB position is that there is no plan with EFX.

Timeline
*Elway hired, says Tebow a good football player but not a good QB
*King interviews Elway and believes they may move Tebow
*Elway tweets no interest in moving Tebow
*Fox hired, speaks highly of Tebow
*EFX say Orton is the starter
*Fox has an idea of who QB will be, prefers a "gamer to a good practice player"
*Lockout ends
*Broncos leak they have Orton on the block
*Deal w/Miami falls through over Orton's new contract
*Orton takes all reps w/1st unit, Tebow and Quinn split w/2nd team
*Broncos leak that Tebow is struggling at camp
*Tebow and Quinn rotate as the #2 in preseason, Elway justifies via Tweet
*Tebow outplays Quinn in preseason, especially finale
*Fox names Orton starter, Quinn and Tebow co-#2 QBs
*Tebow plays emergency WR in game, Fox and Elway reinforce he's a QB
*Elway says you cant throw a young QB in w/a bad team
*Fox uses Tebow in one non-red zone play for loss of yardage, says tried "it" and abandoned because imeffective

Now someone try to predict what will come next based on that history.

bendog
10-03-2011, 08:26 AM
I dont know. Only thing we've learned thus far when it comes to the QB position is that there is no plan with EFX.

Timeline
*Elway hired, says Tebow a good football player but not a good QB
*King interviews Elway and believes they may move Tebow
*Elway tweets no interest in moving Tebow
*Fox hired, speaks highly of Tebow
*EFX say Orton is the starter
*Fox has an idea of who QB will be, prefers a "gamer to a good practice player"
*Lockout ends
*Broncos leak they have Orton on the block
*Deal w/Miami falls through over Orton's new contract
*Orton takes all reps w/1st unit, Tebow and Quinn split w/2nd team
*Broncos leak that Tebow is struggling at camp
*Tebow and Quinn rotate as the #2 in preseason, Elway justifies via Tweet
*Tebow outplays Quinn in preseason, especially finale
*Fox names Orton starter, Quinn and Tebow co-#2 QBs
*Tebow plays emergency WR in game, Fox and Elway reinforce he's a QB
*Elway says you cant throw a young QB in w/a bad team
*Fox uses Tebow in one non-red zone play for loss of yardage, says tried "it" and abandoned because imeffective

Now someone try to predict what will come next based on that history.

The tebow play was wierd. Wasted down. I can halfway see him on 1st and goal from the five on a off tackle blast.

jhns
10-03-2011, 08:29 AM
Jizz, let me end communications to you with this. I'll pay to watch Tebow play. I think the odds are about 70-30 that he's not going to make it, but it'd be entertaining to see how it works out. Its not EFX's fault that he didn't work on mechanics this offseason, but still giving Bowlen anything is just enabling a guy, which btw is what posting to youd accomplishes. But, I don't think Elway would have taken the job unless he thought Bowlen was committed to winning.

Tebow has his own training facility that he worked at more than most. You are a clown. You don't even watch the games as you try to analyze what is going on. You just can't get dumber than that...

jhns
10-03-2011, 08:31 AM
I dont know. Only thing we've learned thus far when it comes to the QB position is that there is no plan with EFX.

Timeline
*Elway hired, says Tebow a good football player but not a good QB
*King interviews Elway and believes they may move Tebow
*Elway tweets no interest in moving Tebow
*Fox hired, speaks highly of Tebow
*EFX say Orton is the starter
*Fox has an idea of who QB will be, prefers a "gamer to a good practice player"
*Lockout ends
*Broncos leak they have Orton on the block
*Deal w/Miami falls through over Orton's new contract
*Orton takes all reps w/1st unit, Tebow and Quinn split w/2nd team
*Broncos leak that Tebow is struggling at camp
*Tebow and Quinn rotate as the #2 in preseason, Elway justifies via Tweet
*Tebow outplays Quinn in preseason, especially finale
*Fox names Orton starter, Quinn and Tebow co-#2 QBs
*Tebow plays emergency WR in game, Fox and Elway reinforce he's a QB
*Elway says you cant throw a young QB in w/a bad team
*Fox uses Tebow in one non-red zone play for loss of yardage, says tried "it" and abandoned because imeffective

Now someone try to predict what will come next based on that history.

That is easy to predict. Fox will last a season or two before getting fired. He will then be lucky to find another head coaching gig any time soon.

DrFate
10-03-2011, 08:42 AM
I dont know. Only thing we've learned thus far when it comes to the QB position is that there is no plan with EFX.

Timeline
*Elway hired, says Tebow a good football player but not a good QB
*King interviews Elway and believes they may move Tebow
*Elway tweets no interest in moving Tebow
*Fox hired, speaks highly of Tebow
*EFX say Orton is the starter
*Fox has an idea of who QB will be, prefers a "gamer to a good practice player"
*Lockout ends
*Broncos leak they have Orton on the block
*Deal w/Miami falls through over Orton's new contract
*Orton takes all reps w/1st unit, Tebow and Quinn split w/2nd team
*Broncos leak that Tebow is struggling at camp
*Tebow and Quinn rotate as the #2 in preseason, Elway justifies via Tweet
*Tebow outplays Quinn in preseason, especially finale
*Fox names Orton starter, Quinn and Tebow co-#2 QBs
*Tebow plays emergency WR in game, Fox and Elway reinforce he's a QB
*Elway says you cant throw a young QB in w/a bad team
*Fox uses Tebow in one non-red zone play for loss of yardage, says tried "it" and abandoned because imeffective

Now someone try to predict what will come next based on that history.

They have proven they are schizophrenic regarding the most important position on the field. Therein lies the heart of the fanbase frustration.

montrose
10-03-2011, 08:46 AM
That is easy to predict. Fox will last a season or two before getting fired. He will then be lucky to find another head coaching gig any time soon.

Unfortantly they've put themselves in a position where he has to stay on for a few years. They fired a coach who won them 2 titles, then fired his replacement after less than 2 seasons, if they fire the next coach after 2 or less years good luck getting anybody worth a crap tomeven look at this job.

TonyR
10-03-2011, 08:46 AM
*Broncos leak that Tebow is struggling at camp


I could be wrong about this but didn't a lot of media members witness this themselves and report it? Or were the reports all based on these "leaks" you refer to here?

vonqkilla
10-03-2011, 08:48 AM
Dennison....

Classic over correction hiring Fox.

jhns
10-03-2011, 08:48 AM
Unfortantly they've put themselves in a position where he has to stay on for a few years. They fired a coach who won them 2 titles, then fired his replacement after less than 2 seasons, if they fire the next coach after 2 or less years good luck getting anybody worth a crap tomeven look at this job.

I agree and it sucks. I did like the offseason. Maybe we can fill in talent over the next few years, then get a real coach.

Drek
10-03-2011, 08:54 AM
I could be wrong about this but didn't a lot of media members witness this themselves and report it? Or were the reports all based on these "leaks" you refer to here?

Do you even know what most media people call "going to camp"?

They show up, flash press passes to get exclusive access, watch a couple plays, then jaw with the staff, injured players, etc. and ignore what actually happens on the field.

People from this board went to camp this year, the general consensus was that Brady Quinn of all people looked the best in practice. Tebow looked rough the first few days then found a rhythm and was solid. Orton looked like a guy who's been in the system for two years wearing red shirts and shorts.

If we had a real QB competition Brady Quinn would be our starting QB right now if camp/practice was the determining factor. Tebow would be thes tarter if pre-season games were our primary test. Instead we're stuck with a lame duck journeyman QB while both of the younger guys sit and twiddle their thumbs.

AlphaSeirra
10-03-2011, 08:55 AM
Jacksonville had a 5th round grade on him, no interest whatsoever. The other teams that I recall had interest in him were NE, Buffalo and Minnesota. Those teams can wait to sign him as a cheap FA.

That was before Tebow put up his rookie numbers, both passing and rushing.

Rumor was they fielded calls on him near the end of camp but there was little interest.

They 'fielded calls' -- multiple calls, but that indicates little interest huh? Ha! Denvers 'price' had nothing to do with it I'm guessing... Hilarious!

Well since they've already paid him his bonus, they can still get financial value. Remember they put him on the front of the season ticket renewal package, offered a limited edition poster of him to ticket holders who renewed in full early and he's easily they're most marketed player (i.e. fans aren't custom ordering Tebow jerseys because they cant find them, one trip to the Broncos team store or a retailer and they're easily producing twice as much merchandise for him than any other player).

So you now admit to believing that the Denver FO is just 'exploiting' both Tim and their fans for the $$$, while they screw Tim out of his legitimate chance to develope as a QB?

Hey LUCKY, ARE YOU LISTENING TO THIS CHIT? <<-----<<< :kiddingme

Finally they can tease fans he'll eventually play as lng as he's on the roster. Once they cut him, that's gone. That's why I think they'll wait as long as possible and continue to milk the cow before releasing him.

TOTALLY DISGUSTING IF TRUE, ESPECIALLY FOR ELWAY'S LEGACY....:nono:

oubronco
10-03-2011, 08:58 AM
Gonna be alot of people jumping ship when they sign Orton long term after the season

TheDave
10-03-2011, 09:00 AM
I could be wrong about this but didn't a lot of media members witness this themselves and report it? Or were the reports all based on these "leaks" you refer to here?

Everybody that went to camp saw it... Drek still has some lingering McD issues.

AlphaSeirra
10-03-2011, 09:04 AM
People post that he'll go on to have success elsewhere, but he won't if he can't execute an NFL offense.

Tebow 2010 #1 Rookie PER 82.1 + 5.3 ypc

Tebow 2011 #1 Preseason Bronco PER 108.3 + 6.9 ypc

So what's all this constant 'IF' :bs: about. That question has been answered, even if many are still UNWILLING to see the already demonstrated truth.


Let's hope he can. It's disappointing that his work ethic was his supposed strong suit, and then he goes off on a book tour rather than hiring a private qb coach. I was neutral on the kid up until then. I'm a doubter after that. And it pissed me off. I'd been looking forward to seeing him.

Tim was the first to organize on off season QB/WR practice session when HE PAID to fly WR's to Jax and HE PAID TO PUT THEM UP for some out of camp practice time.
They then went back out west for another couple of weeks of workouts.

Tim's limited book signing tour did little to nothing to hamper his off season workouts.

Quinn PER 69
Orton PER 104
Tebow PER 108

Maybe Quinn & Orton should have been the ones to hire a QB guru in the off season....

PS

Your foot is wet, smelly, and yellow stained imoho....:wave:

Drek
10-03-2011, 09:06 AM
Everybody that went to camp saw it... Drek still has some lingering McD issues.

I have some lingering "not pushing an agenda" issues. You've resolved those because you make your mind up before you see any facts. Makes your life easier I'm sure.

Just like how Jay Cutler is still some kind of worthwhile QB in your world. Never mind the fact that his current team is completely designed around taking the ball out of his hands as much as possible despite a noted passing junkie as their OC.

TheDave
10-03-2011, 09:10 AM
I have some lingering "not pushing an agenda" issues. You've resolved those because you make your mind up before you see any facts. Makes your life easier I'm sure.

Just like how Jay Cutler is still some kind of worthwhile QB in your world. Never mind the fact that his current team is completely designed around taking the ball out of his hands as much as possible despite a noted passing junkie as their OC.

Says the guy who was not at camp to the guy who was... Hilarious!

Triplelefthook
10-03-2011, 09:26 AM
A good portion of the Denver media, certainly the guys from the radio, went to camp and paid close attention to the QB play. Because that was the story. Alfred Williams I know watched damn near everything. Maybe the whole Denver media are idiots and they somehow couldn't see Tebow's greatness, but they did watch.

peacepipe
10-03-2011, 09:35 AM
Tebow 2010 #1 Rookie PER 82.1 + 5.3 ypc

Tebow 2011 #1 Preseason Bronco PER 108.3 + 6.9 ypc

So what's all this constant 'IF' :bs: about. That question has been answered, even if many are still UNWILLING to see the already demonstrated truth.




Tim was the first to organize on off season QB/WR practice session when HE PAID to fly WR's to Jax and HE PAID TO PUT THEM UP for some out of camp practice time.
They then went back out west for another couple of weeks of workouts.

Tim's limited book signing tour did little to nothing to hamper his off season workouts.

Quinn PER 69
Orton PER 104
Tebow PER 108

Maybe Quinn & Orton should have been the ones to hire a QB guru in the off season....

PS

Your foot is wet, smelly, and yellow stained imoho....:wave:

http://www.examiner.com/denver-broncos-in-denver/tebow-joins-dawkins-offseason-workouts

About 15 Broncos have been regulars at the workout, including incumbent starting quarterback Kyle Orton, but perhaps the Broncosí biggest name had been absent until today.

Quarterback Tim Tebow, who started the final three games of the 2010 season, was out of town making public appearances last week but was at the sports bubble today throwing to receivers Britt Davis and Dan Gronkowski and taking snaps from center J.D. Walton
http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/quarterback_tim_tebow_shows_at_team_workout/4760734
Although he has been working out on his own, Denver Broncos second year quarterback Tim Tebow has taken some heat for missing several of the teamís unofficial workouts, which were organised by veteran safety Brian Dawkins.

oubronco
10-03-2011, 09:38 AM
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/166755_o.gif

AlphaSeirra
10-03-2011, 09:51 AM
http://www.examiner.com/denver-broncos-in-denver/tebow-joins-dawkins-offseason-workouts


http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/quarterback_tim_tebow_shows_at_team_workout/4760734

========================

The actual 'ON THE FIELD FACTS' are what they are, deal with them or don't, matters not at all to me. :wave:

Tebow 2010 #1 Rookie PER 82.1 + 5.3 ypc

Tebow 2011 #1 Preseason Bronco PER 108.3 + 6.9 ypc

Quinn PER 69
Orton PER 104
Tebow PER 108

Maybe Quinn & Orton should have been the ones to hire a QB guru in the off season....

And just in case you've missed it, I'm ALL FOR the Broncos FO trading or cutting Tebow from a team/staff who's recent decisions make them look like a room full of loser/fools.

So please, do him and all of us (Gator/Tebow/Bronco) fans a Huge Favor,,, and save you genius owner those 'Escalator Funds' too. :yayaya:

Drek
10-03-2011, 10:26 AM
Says the guy who was not at camp to the guy who was... Hilarious!

Your agenda has been clear for a while, as has your inability to see anything outside what you want to see.

Come pre-season Tebow instantly looks like the most live fire ready QB on our roster, despite his inexperience and joke 2nd string squad. Yet in practice its so inarguably Orton? Either our practices were a sham, there is some serious issues with objective grading here, or a combination of both.

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 10:44 AM
I'd like to reply 'AlphaSierra Bravo" ... but sadly, I don't like your posts enough.

Preseason stats are no good for ... for anything really.

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 10:44 AM
========================

The actual 'ON THE FIELD FACTS' are what they are, deal with them or don't, matters not at all to me. :wave:

Tebow 2010 #1 Rookie PER 82.1 + 5.3 ypc

Tebow 2011 #1 Preseason Bronco PER 108.3 + 6.9 ypc

Quinn PER 69
Orton PER 104
Tebow PER 10


AlphaSierra Tango ... I didn't recognize the PER stat you're using.

So I Googled it, and guess what? Looks like you're the only guy on Planet Earth using it ... :~ohyah!:



http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5476/perstat.jpg

Rohirrim
10-03-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't get all the emotion being invested in Tebow, but so be it. Let me see if I get this straight: Everything McD did completely ****ed this team up, except when he traded three picks to get back in the first round to take Tebow (when, from all reports, it seems every other team in the league had him on their boards going in the third round - which made a whole lot more sense). But I do have a solution for all this, if we can't trade him for a good enough pick (say, third rounder), try him out at TE. We're hurting at the position. It would limit his reads. Maybe you could put in a couple of trick plays using him in motion?

As far as Tebow not taking the job from Orton in practice and therefore, ipso facto, the practices were rigged, we're wandering into Gaffo conspiracy territory now. It wasn't just the Broncos staff that had questions about Tebow's limitations, it was visitors and journalists as well. In fact, it was a theme.

Drek
10-03-2011, 11:28 AM
As far as Tebow not taking the job from Orton in practice and therefore, ipso facto, the practices were rigged, we're wandering into Gaffo conspiracy territory now. It wasn't just the Broncos staff that had questions about Tebow's limitations, it was visitors and journalists as well. In fact, it was a theme.

So you don't think expecting a 2nd year player who lost out on the entire off-season to come in and instantly run a shorts and t's practice session better than the 6th year vet a sham? That its a completely unbiased competition even though only one guy got snaps with the first team? That said guy is the only one who got first team snaps in pre-season, and was declared the starter after just a couple pre-season games?

Funny how Tebow has all these limitations but he ran the spread better than Sam Bradford (no limitations), Cam Newton (no limitations), Alex Smith (thought to have no limitations when he was drafted), etc..

Its also funny that when Tebow steps on the field all these limitations still aren't enough for him to play as poorly as Orton has EVERY SINGLE GAME this season.

I honestly don't even give a **** if they play Tebow. Just try something different because Orton obviously isn't the guy. I'd very much look forward to Quinn getting a second chance. But the constant attacks on Tebow based on a few mouth breathers opinions when people with superior credentials strongly disagree is a joke.

If Tim Tebow was a baseball player he'd be a moneyball GM's wet dream. Doesn't fit what the eyes only guys think he should while playing football so they ignore the results. Moneyball guys grab 'em up and watch them crush.

broncocalijohn
10-03-2011, 01:03 PM
I'm a huge OU fan and have been since I moved there as a child in 1981. Watch every OU game every season. Landry is a good player with alot of promise, but I'm not sure I'd want him here over Tebow. There is still some hesitancy to his game, and he's not close to as good a player as Bradford was. Landry is a lot like Troy Aikman. A pure passer with a pretty good arm who can make all of the throws, but he doesn't have the wow factor that the great pro prospects have.

If someone says Landry is like Troy Aikman, I would say "where does he sign up?" At this point, I am over the "wow factor". I want someone that can give me Wins not pretty losses. Get the QBOTF and still go strong with defense and maybe a back with some OL help.

Rohirrim
10-03-2011, 01:15 PM
So you don't think expecting a 2nd year player who lost out on the entire off-season to come in and instantly run a shorts and t's practice session better than the 6th year vet a sham? That its a completely unbiased competition even though only one guy got snaps with the first team? That said guy is the only one who got first team snaps in pre-season, and was declared the starter after just a couple pre-season games?

Funny how Tebow has all these limitations but he ran the spread better than Sam Bradford (no limitations), Cam Newton (no limitations), Alex Smith (thought to have no limitations when he was drafted), etc..

Its also funny that when Tebow steps on the field all these limitations still aren't enough for him to play as poorly as Orton has EVERY SINGLE GAME this season.

I honestly don't even give a **** if they play Tebow. Just try something different because Orton obviously isn't the guy. I'd very much look forward to Quinn getting a second chance. But the constant attacks on Tebow based on a few mouth breathers opinions when people with superior credentials strongly disagree is a joke.

If Tim Tebow was a baseball player he'd be a moneyball GM's wet dream. Doesn't fit what the eyes only guys think he should while playing football so they ignore the results. Moneyball guys grab 'em up and watch them crush.

So, you believe that even if Elway and Fox have no intention of going with the spread offense in the long term, they should switch to it anyway, and train the entire team to play it, just for the sake of Tebow? It's a shame, really. McDaniels got drunk on Tebow and now Elway and Fox have to suffer the hangover.

Drek
10-03-2011, 01:16 PM
If someone says Landry is like Troy Aikman, I would say "where does he sign up?" At this point, I am over the "wow factor". I want someone that can give me Wins not pretty losses. Get the QBOTF and still go strong with defense and maybe a back with some OL help.

Sure. Now we just need to find the next Michael Irvin, Emmitt Smith, etc. and we can win some championships!

epicSocialism4tw
10-03-2011, 01:22 PM
If someone says Landry is like Troy Aikman, I would say "where does he sign up?" At this point, I am over the "wow factor". I want someone that can give me Wins not pretty losses. Get the QBOTF and still go strong with defense and maybe a back with some OL help.

Thats what he looks like in college. What gives me pause about him as a pro player is that there is some hesitancy to his game.

epicSocialism4tw
10-03-2011, 01:23 PM
As for drafting a QB...this team has so many needs that literally the last thing that they should be looking at is a QB. I'd rather see them re-sign Orton or go with Tebow or Quinn rather than to draft another first round QB.

Drek
10-03-2011, 01:26 PM
So, you believe that even if Elway and Fox have no intention of going with the spread offense in the long term, they should switch to it anyway, and train the entire team to play it, just for the sake of Tebow? It's a shame, really. McDaniels got drunk on Tebow and now Elway and Fox have to suffer the hangover.

They're running McDaniels' borderline spread offense. McCoy said as much. Fox said as much. Basically the same play book, they just added a few wrinkles to the running plays and call a more conservative game.

But play Tebow in whatever offense you want to run. The argument you're using here is that Tebow can't play from behind center yet we watch this team week after week resort to shotgun formation for the majority of its plays because Orton can't either. So how is that a reason to keep Tebow (or Quinn) off the field?

If they wanted to run the WCO then cool, throw Tebow in and see how he does. Hell, you want to run the single wing go ahead. Anything is better than Orton sans McDaniels. Orton can't think on his own and McCoy isn't smart enough to give him all the answers before the offense lines up. At least Tebow has some improvisational skills to put defenses on their heels every once in a while.

The notion that Tebow can only work in a spread/Urban Meyer's QBs always fail in the NFL argument is asinine. Everyone said the same thing about Jeff Tedford and his semi-spread offense. Common complaints were no touch on short passes, couldn't handle lining up behind center, needed simple reads, etc.. Aaron Rodgers seems to be doing just fine though.

peacepipe
10-03-2011, 01:26 PM
As for drafting a QB...this team has so many needs that literally the last thing that they should be looking at is a QB. I'd rather see them re-sign Orton or go with Tebow or Quinn rather than to draft another first round QB.

indy has more holes but you would never have known that if it weren't for P. Mannings' injury.

IHaveALight
10-03-2011, 01:29 PM
I don't get all the emotion being invested in Tebow, but so be it. Let me see if I get this straight: Everything McD did completely ****ed this team up, except when he traded three picks to get back in the first round to take Tebow (when, from all reports, it seems every other team in the league had him on their boards going in the third round - which made a whole lot more sense). But I do have a solution for all this, if we can't trade him for a good enough pick (say, third rounder), try him out at TE. We're hurting at the position. It would limit his reads. Maybe you could put in a couple of trick plays using him in motion?

McD made a lot of really bad moves, but he did make some good moves too...
Decker
Dawkins
Lloyd
Trading BMarsh
Colquitt
Re-signing Elvis and Kuper
Goodman's been a pretty decent signing
Just because McD drafted Tebow doesn't mean he's going to fail.

Nwp-Apap
10-03-2011, 01:31 PM
AlphaSierra Tango ... I didn't recognize the PER stat you're using.

So I Googled it, and guess what? Looks like you're the only guy on Planet Earth using it ... :~ohyah!:



http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5476/perstat.jpg

PER stands for passer efficiency rating, others known as QB rating. He is in no way, shape, nor form the "only guy on the planet" using the QB rating stat.

If you don't believe that, you can mosey on over to NFL.com or espn and I'm sure you'll find QR rating, otherwise known as passer efficiency rating, or PER, as a documented statistic that is used by many different outlets and sources.

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 02:41 PM
Okay, QB Efficiency rating ... submitting five of a passer's raw stats into a calculator that applies a controversial formula to turn the five numbers into one number, thought to be an accurate rating of the passer. Indeed the perfect yardstick to compare one guy's six quarters of preseason play to another guy's six quarters of preseason play.









(But you see, what I did is I Googled the term from AlphaBeta's post, and AlphaBeta's post popped up on top. None of the other page one results referenced the stat as he did. Hahaha, pretty funny, huh.)

fontaine
10-03-2011, 03:48 PM
They're running McDaniels' borderline spread offense. McCoy said as much. Fox said as much. Basically the same play book, they just added a few wrinkles to the running plays and call a more conservative game.

But play Tebow in whatever offense you want to run. The argument you're using here is that Tebow can't play from behind center yet we watch this team week after week resort to shotgun formation for the majority of its plays because Orton can't either. So how is that a reason to keep Tebow (or Quinn) off the field?

If they wanted to run the WCO then cool, throw Tebow in and see how he does. Hell, you want to run the single wing go ahead. Anything is better than Orton sans McDaniels. Orton can't think on his own and McCoy isn't smart enough to give him all the answers before the offense lines up. At least Tebow has some improvisational skills to put defenses on their heels every once in a while.

The notion that Tebow can only work in a spread/Urban Meyer's QBs always fail in the NFL argument is asinine. Everyone said the same thing about Jeff Tedford and his semi-spread offense. Common complaints were no touch on short passes, couldn't handle lining up behind center, needed simple reads, etc.. Aaron Rodgers seems to be doing just fine though.

Tebow is going to get his shot on this team. Probably after the bye.

I don't get why people are so bitter? The coaches will get Orton out of their system and get behind Tebow.

Nwp-Apap
10-03-2011, 04:34 PM
Okay, QB Efficiency rating ... submitting five of a passer's raw stats into a calculator that applies a controversial formula to turn the five numbers into one number, thought to be an accurate rating of the passer. Indeed the perfect yardstick to compare one guy's six quarters of preseason play to another guy's six quarters of preseason play.









(But you see, what I did is I Googled the term from AlphaBeta's post, and AlphaBeta's post popped up on top. None of the other page one results referenced the stat as he did. Hahaha, pretty funny, huh.)

Fair enough! :Broncos:

BroncoBuff
10-03-2011, 04:42 PM
Fair enough! :Broncos:

I guess this is where I should welcome you to the forum, so welcome.

It's not always like this.

Nwp-Apap
10-03-2011, 05:08 PM
I guess this is where I should welcome you to the forum, so welcome.

It's not always like this.

I thank you!

I bet not, but I can understand, these are troubling and controversial times as a bronco fan. But wherever we may stand on whatever issues there may be, even the heated QB debate, we all just want to see the team win.

SoCalBronco
10-03-2011, 06:07 PM
They couldnt trade him now if they wanted to, IMO. They've depreciated his value, he has limited game tape, a 1st round QB contract and is a player the league (for the most part) stayed clear of. Who in the hell is going to give up compensation to inherit that?

I think the more likely scenerio is that Tim Tebow will be cut by the Denver Broncos at some point between now and the 2012 season. And before the counter that the fanbase will be in an uproar and cause anarchy... I think they've proven since the day John Fox was hired they dont give a **** what you think.

If they don't give a **** what people think then by all means people in Denver need to financially bleed them dry by not going to games and not buying plastic crap.

Bowlen needs to be threatened with a REAL cash flow problem. Bring them to their knees and then they'll ****ing care.

TailgateNut
10-03-2011, 06:32 PM
If they don't give a **** what people think then by all means people in Denver need to financially bleed them dry by not going to games and not buying plastic crap.

Bowlen needs to be threatened with a REAL cash flow problem. Bring them to their knees and then they'll ****ing care.


Considering we have added a fanbase of "new and improved/ spoiled rotten" after the back to back SB wins, we may lose a few thousand but the base will be there. So keep wishing that the fans will change the minds of the organization. Just proves how long some have "paid attention" to the good and bad times. Season ticketholders will not give up unless they are part of the upper level crowd. Those who have held on for decades will not give up their rights.

Keep Dreaming.

Rock Chalk
10-03-2011, 06:50 PM
No.

We're not going to let the FO/staff off the hook that easily. It's clear Tebow isn't "their man". I thought we were supposed to be learning from this whole McD "I gotta get my guy" type of thing. No....they're going to work with Tebow because they're allegedly professionals. We don't give a **** whether you're comfortable with him or whether he's your guy. They've treated him shabbily from the word go and repeated that again, today. And now you want to reward the staff for this behavior by allowing them to let Tebow go? No. Tebow's going to stay there, in the background, putting pressure on the staff in unspoken ways and creating awkwardness. They've acted like a-holes this whole time...and now somebody's gotta pay. Tebow's going nowhere.

If Tebow has fallen behind the curve...that's the staff's fault. Instead of not giving him reps at practice and basically forcing him to volunteer to do other stuff (as has been reported), why don't you give him reps to get him up to speed? The staff has completely mismanaged this from the very beginning. Don't let them off the hook. They WILL work with Tebow and develop him. The fanbase needs to keep the pressure up. Force them to crack, bring them to their knees. They are already cracking. Keep it going.

Actually its Tebow's fault for not doing work in the offseason to improve his game.

I think, had Tebow worked with some QB coaches in the offseason KNOWING he wasnt going to have OTAs and the typical offseason training, he would have beat Orton out as the starter in Training Camp.

By all reports from you douchebags at camp, Tebow wasn't the best QB out there. Did not have a full grasp and looked like he regressed. Y'alls words, not mine.

So its HIS fault, not the staffs. What the **** do you expect them to do with a guy that was a severe reach in the first round, from a previous administration, with no chance to work with the guy in the offseason?

montrose
10-03-2011, 06:55 PM
I could be wrong about this but didn't a lot of media members witness this themselves and report it? Or were the reports all based on these "leaks" you refer to here?

Michael Silver article - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_denver_broncos_quarterbacks_082311

I agree and it sucks. I did like the offseason. Maybe we can fill in talent over the next few years, then get a real coach.

I've actually heard this before... that the team hired Fox knowing it was going to be a transitional period and that he was a solid veteran guy who could help them get back to fundamentals while they restocked the talent pool before giving way to a more creative guy once there was more talent on the team.

Not sure I buy it entirely considering Elway's passion to win now but it makes sense in theory.

That was before Tebow put up his rookie numbers, both passing and rushing.

Honestly, and I like Tebow, I'm not sure he drastically impressed people around the league with the way he played. I think he suprised some but not enough to make someone say - we've got to get that guy!

In addition, there was a report (can't find it now) that Jack Del Rio wasat Tebow's golf tournament and made some comment, somewhat half-jokingly to avoid tampering, that they'd be extremely interested if he were interested in playing TE. Obviously not iron clad but combined with their previous grade on him and selecting Gabbert- I doubt Jacksonville would have interest.

They 'fielded calls' -- multiple calls, but that indicates little interest huh? Ha! Denvers 'price' had nothing to do with it I'm guessing... Hilarious!

The way I understand it was they actually we're getting a few calls on Quinn, but that was before the Arizona game.

So you now admit to believing that the Denver FO is just 'exploiting' both Tim and their fans for the $$$, while they screw Tim out of his legitimate chance to develope as a QB?

Well I wouldn't say I need to "admit" anything, but I believe you can certainly make that argument. Although I believe there are some, I repeat some, members of the organization that would prefer to just cut bait now and eliminate the distraction.

TOTALLY DISGUSTING IF TRUE, ESPECIALLY FOR ELWAY'S LEGACY....:nono:

The shame is we need to separate Elway's playing legacy and his Front Office one - but the team is trying to sell everyone so much that the reason he'll be great at the latter is because of the former. Almost forcing it.

If they don't give a **** what people think then by all means people in Denver need to financially bleed them dry by not going to games and not buying plastic crap.

Bowlen needs to be threatened with a REAL cash flow problem. Bring them to their knees and then they'll ****ing care.

Well the no-shows will be up and up as the season moves along but I'm not sure how much that'll play into their decisions.

Rock Chalk
10-03-2011, 06:59 PM
If they don't give a **** what people think then by all means people in Denver need to financially bleed them dry by not going to games and not buying plastic crap.

Bowlen needs to be threatened with a REAL cash flow problem. Bring them to their knees and then they'll ****ing care.

Do it. Come on Mike do it. Bowlen up and moves the team from Denver then you can root for the Redskins without being a dirty traitor.

SoCalBronco
10-03-2011, 07:07 PM
Do it. Come on Mike do it. Bowlen up and moves the team from Denver then you can root for the Redskins without being a dirty traitor.

Bowlen can't move the team. He's locked into a long term lease. All he can do is sell.....although he'd have to get around the Kaiser problem.

montrose
10-03-2011, 07:16 PM
Bowlen can't move the team. He's locked into a long term lease. All he can do is sell.....although he'd have to get around the Kaiser problem.

Right now if you had to chose only among the two, would you rather Bowlen or Kaiser own the team?

TailgateNut
10-03-2011, 07:18 PM
Do it. Come on Mike do it. Bowlen up and moves the team from Denver then you can root for the Redskins without being a dirty traitor.

As if Bowlen gives a **** about a few clowns in Cali, Nebraska and Florida who have a corncob stuck in their ass cause their boy doesn't get to play with the big boys.ROFL!

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 07:18 PM
Right now if you had to chose only among the two, would you rather Bowlen or Kaiser own the team?

Is that seriously a question Ha!

SoCalBronco
10-03-2011, 07:26 PM
Right now if you had to chose only among the two, would you rather Bowlen or Kaiser own the team?

I'd have to know more about Kaiser's financial position and that of his fellow investors.

TailgateNut
10-03-2011, 07:28 PM
I'd have to know more about Kaiser's financial position and that of his fellow investors.


I may kid you at times, but do you actually think this is a money issue? Really? REALLY?

SoCalBronco
10-03-2011, 07:33 PM
I may kid you at times, but do you actually think this is a money issue? Really? REALLY?

Ofcourse its a money issue. Why have we not spent money except for 2 years in the last decade (slightly more actually) (in real dollars)? There's obviously money issues here, either because of cheapness or because of a real cash flow problem (perhaps Bowlen's outside investments have gone sour). There's absolutely no question that money is at the very heart of the matter. Even this year, with dead money coming off the new CBA automatically we still spent 20m below the cap. There's just no way you can justify spending a great deal of money relative to our opponents only 2 out of 12 years.

In 2013, the problem will become lessened due to the cap floor coming into effect, although that's still a couple years away and even at that point, I believe they'll only have to hit around 89% or so, which still means they can go about 10-12m under the cap and be in compliance. There may be a rule that says by the end of the season it has to be around 94%, but that would be additional payments made after the year, probably on merit, but Bowlen would probably elect to do it that way and hold onto the extra 5% for 4 months to get some interest on it before he has to give it up.

montrose
10-03-2011, 08:13 PM
Is that seriously a question Ha!

ROFL!

Meck77
10-03-2011, 08:23 PM
Actually its Tebow's fault for not doing work in the offseason to improve his game.

I think, had Tebow worked with some QB coaches in the offseason KNOWING he wasnt going to have OTAs and the typical offseason training, he would have beat Orton out as the starter in Training Camp.

By all reports from you douchebags at camp, Tebow wasn't the best QB out there. Did not have a full grasp and looked like he regressed. Y'alls words, not mine.

So its HIS fault, not the staffs. What the **** do you expect them to do with a guy that was a severe reach in the first round, from a previous administration, with no chance to work with the guy in the offseason?

Simply put. PERSONAL MOTHER ****ING RESPONSIBILITY.