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GreeleyGrizzley
10-02-2011, 10:35 PM
Packers sportscaster Wayne Larrivee has a famous saying around Wisconsin. You may have heard it before. "There is your dagger!" he will say, when the Packers put their victorious stamp on a game. Today there were many daggers. I know, I was there.

The Packers fans around me (very friendly as a whole I might add) would tell me, after the Packers' fourth touchdown, "There's your dagger!". Then, after the fifth, "There's your dagger!". Then after the sixth and seventh. I asked them, how many daggers do you need, this horse has been dead since halftime.

That's when I watched that horse, our Broncos, take a knee with three timeouts in hand, already down by eleven. Yeah, it's a ways to go, and not much time, but why not take a couple shots. Why not Coach Fox? Especially with Green Bay getting the ball to start the second half. But, OK coach.

Then late in the game, with Denver down by I can't remember how much, it's time to punt. Really? Four scores down, and we're going to punt? OK coach Fox.

Then, down by nearly five scores, let's run the ball shall we. Maybe it'll open up the play action. Good idea coach.

By this time, I figured they'd given up. But wait, now it was time to call timeouts. With little over two minutes to go, down by a whole helluva lot, now it was time to try. Way to go for it coach!

Then they ran the ball again.

WTF coach?

I witnessed a full Lambaeu Field chanting "Tebow! Tebow! Tebow!".

Our team is officially a joke. And I was part of the punchline today. Me and the other few hundred Denver fans who showed up.

A lady dressed in cheese,and a smile, came up to me after the game and asked, "why won't they play Tebow? I don't come to a lot of games. I'm not a Broncos fan, but I'd like to see him (Tebow) play."

I had no response. I didn't know. Because our Broncos were down by four scores and Tebow sat. Quinn even sat. Hmm.

I just want to see what Tebow's got. I want to feel that excitement. I haven't been excited about Broncos football for a very long time.

Why not play him coach?

Is it because Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win?

I simply don't believe it. I saw that so called football game today, and if that's our best chance to win, then we truly have become worse than last season.

Do I even need to talk about the defense today? And so what if we threw it up all over the Packers secondary. They're not good. Kind of like ours.

This thread is a rant, and not one that is very coherent in all likelihood, but it's not all about Tebow. It's about this new staff. This new team. This isn't rebuilding. I know that much. This is imploding. Our defense was supposed to be better. Von looked great, as did Doom, and we had decent pressure, but that obviously didn't do much. Our running game was so-so and Willis is our No. 1 without question IMO. The defense and the running game, two things that Fox was known for, if I'm not mistaken. Nonexistent today.

Bottom line, I don't see direction. I don't follow this front office. I want in the club.

TheReverend
10-02-2011, 10:39 PM
Excellent post

MacGruder
10-02-2011, 10:41 PM
It's funny because McDaniels was supposed to be the rookie and he looks like a genius compared to Fox and Elway, from my view.

But McD is coming from an incredibly innovative coach in Belichick and Fox and Elway are as stale and out of date as imaginable.

barryr
10-02-2011, 10:42 PM
The Broncos do not scare anyone and they do not even have the home field mystique anymore either. Just watching Orton out there is depressing to me and you will be hard pressed to find a more Orton supporters when he first came to the Broncos than me around here. But I have faced facts: He is not a starter in the NFL on a good team unless he has a great defense and a great running game and big play receivers, and then maybe he could, but otherwise, he is a backup. I just never really get the feeling this team will break out and play great with Orton at QB and I truly think most of the team feels that too. I do not see a team with a ton of intensity out there. Instead I see more of the same, players out of position and making mistakes and seemingly players who do not even know assignments.

McDman
10-02-2011, 10:42 PM
Packers sportscaster Wayne Larrivee has a famous saying around Wisconsin. You may have heard it before. "There is your dagger!" he will say, when the Packers put their victorious stamp on a game. Today there were many daggers. I know, I was there.

The Packers fans around me (very friendly as a whole I might add) would tell me, after the Packers' fourth touchdown, "There's your dagger!". Then, after the fifth, "There's your dagger!". Then after the sixth and seventh. I asked them, how many daggers do you need, this horse has been dead since halftime.

That's when I watched that horse, our Broncos, take a knee with three timeouts in hand, already down by eleven. Yeah, it's a ways to go, and not much time, but why not take a couple shots. Why not Coach Fox? Especially with Green Bay getting the ball to start the second half. But, OK coach.

Then late in the game, with Denver down by I can't remember how much, it's time to punt. Really? Four scores down, and we're going to punt? OK coach Fox.

Then, down by nearly five scores, let's run the ball shall we. Maybe it'll open up the play action. Good idea coach.

By this time, I figured they'd given up. But wait, now it was time to call timeouts. With little over two minutes to go, down by a whole helluva lot, now it was time to try. Way to go for it coach!

Then they ran the ball again.

WTF coach?

I witnessed a full Lambaeu Field chanting "Tebow! Tebow! Tebow!".

Our team is officially a joke. And I was part of the punchline today. Me and the other few hundred Denver fans who showed up.

A lady dressed in cheese,and a smile, came up to me after the game and asked, "why won't they play Tebow? I don't come to a lot of games. I'm not a Broncos fan, but I'd like to see him (Tebow) play."

I had no response. I didn't know. Because our Broncos were down by four scores and Tebow sat. Quinn even sat. Hmm.

I just want to see what Tebow's got. I want to feel that excitement. I haven't been excited about Broncos football for a very long time.

Why not play him coach?

Is it because Kyle Orton gives us the best chance to win?

I simply don't believe it. I saw that so called football game today, and if that's our best chance to win, then we truly have become worse than last season.

Do I even need to talk about the defense today? And so what if we threw it up all over the Packers secondary. They're not good. Kind of like ours.

This thread is a rant, and not one that is very coherent in all likelihood, but it's not all about Tebow. It's about this new staff. This new team. This isn't rebuilding. I know that much. This is imploding. Our defense was supposed to be better. Von looked great, as did Doom, and we had decent pressure, but that obviously didn't do much. Our running game was so-so and Willis is our No. 1 without question IMO. The defense and the running game, two things that Fox was known for, if I'm not mistaken. Nonexistent today.

Bottom line, I don't see direction. I don't follow this front office. I want in the club.

You've been a member since '02 and only have 35 posts.

Ultimate lurker, that's impressive.

24champ
10-02-2011, 10:43 PM
Bottom line, I don't see direction. I don't follow this front office. I want in the club.

Welcome to the club.

McDman
10-02-2011, 10:45 PM
It's funny because McDaniels was supposed to be the rookie and he looks like a genius compared to Fox and Elway, from my view.

But McD is coming from an incredibly innovative coach in Belichick and Fox and Elway are as stale and out of date as imaginable.

McD single handedly took this team from average and turned it into the sh1t show we see today. Fox is ten times the coach that we saw the last two years.

Baba Booey
10-02-2011, 10:45 PM
We've become the punchline of jokes; the laughing stock of the NFL, and there's no end in sight.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7710/1312494914783.jpg

Arkansas Bronco
10-02-2011, 10:45 PM
You've been a member since '02 and only have 35 posts.

Ultimate lurker, that's impressive.

You know some people do like coming here just to read. Looks like he saved it all up till he wanted to be heard.

maven
10-02-2011, 10:46 PM
It's suck for Luck strategy. If a team like the Rams get the #1 overall, John will dump picks like a mad man.

24champ
10-02-2011, 10:47 PM
We've become the punchline of jokes; the laughing stock of the NFL, and there's no end in sight.


We're the Raiders and Lions of the 2000s.

Arkansas Bronco
10-02-2011, 10:48 PM
It's suck for Luck strategy. If a team like the Rams get the #1 overall, John will dump picks like a mad man.

Right now the colts may give us a race. Wouldnt that just suck. Luck sits the sidelines a couple years behind Manning then bam here they come again.

Broncos4Life
10-02-2011, 10:53 PM
It's suck for Luck strategy. If a team like the Rams get the #1 overall, John will dump picks like a mad man.

Hey Maven, check this out. Even the guys at this site know what the hell is going on and what the FO is up to:http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html

GreeleyGrizzley
10-02-2011, 10:56 PM
The entire stadium was chanting "Tebow, Tebow, Tebow!"

70,000 plus Packers fans.

I still can't believe I witnessed that.

There's post No. 36. I had to dump some of this tonight, it's been a long day...

maven
10-02-2011, 11:04 PM
The entire stadium was chanting "Tebow, Tebow, Tebow!"

70,000 plus Packers fans.

I still can't believe I witnessed that.

There's post No. 36. I had to dump some of this tonight, it's been a long day...

ROFL!

We're trying to win the game, no we're rebuilding, It was only one game, he gives us the best chance to win. The Broncos are sucking for Luck in full effect.

maven
10-02-2011, 11:05 PM
Hey Maven, check this out. Even the guys at this site know what the hell is going on and what the FO is up to:http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html

haha

Think about it. This team has to be near the bottom in record to even make a move for the #1 overall if the Broncos do not get it. St. Louis and Carolina are our allies. The Colts, Chiefs, Seahawks, Dolphins are our enemies

MacGruder
10-02-2011, 11:16 PM
McD single handedly took this team from average and turned it into the sh1t show we see today. Fox is ten times the coach that we saw the last two years.

I disagree.. McD had to clean up the mess he inherited. That's likely the only reason he got the job no one else wanted.

He has taken the blame for problems Cutler and Marshal created from my viewpoint.

He was also trying to build a system like Belichicks where you don't rely on stars.. but blue collar guys who bust their butt constantly and fit into the system and team concept.

SoCalBronco
10-02-2011, 11:38 PM
The entire stadium was chanting "Tebow, Tebow, Tebow!"

70,000 plus Packers fans.

I still can't believe I witnessed that.

There's post No. 36. I had to dump some of this tonight, it's been a long day...

That's pretty amazing. I wish the TV had caught that....it would have been awkward for the commentators to explain away.

Alas, its just a matter of time at this point. The drumbeat will only get louder and louder as the losses pile up. Tebow is going to start and play...whole games, if for no other reason than the FO will have no other choice. They are already starting to crack. It's only going to get worse from here on out. Tebow will play or else gate revenues will drop over the course of the season. Our opinions and feelings might not be important to Bowlen, but his wallet it. Good people such as yourself are fed up, we're about ready to hit the old man in the pocket, so he better cave and at least let us get some excitement out of this crap....or else.

SoCalBronco
10-02-2011, 11:47 PM
I disagree.. McD had to clean up the mess he inherited. That's likely the only reason he got the job no one else wanted.

He has taken the blame for problems Cutler and Marshal created from my viewpoint.

He was also trying to build a system like Belichicks where you don't rely on stars.. but blue collar guys who bust their butt constantly and fit into the system and team concept.

McD was given a very nice cupboard on offense and he went about systematically trying to rape it. He created problems with Cutler, not vice versa. It was Cutler who went into the facility voluntarily to learn and work prior to the start of the league year. Who the **** does he think he is treating Jay like that? He should have shut up and been respectful to his Pro Bowl QB. Rather than being grateful for having a great talent to work with, he acted like a supreme ass, but go on keep glorifying douchebaggery. McD can blame himself, because he brought about complete destruction to this franchise. He made it a threshold requirement to drive away anyone with talent. He treated Tony with contempt from Day 1 and failed to use him. And I dont care if Hillis was hitting his wife, either. Start winning us some games and then maybe I'll start caring. I'm not exactly sympathetic when we're going 2-8 to close the year. Get over it. I don't blame him for Marshall, there's nothing he could do there, there's no way to insure the risk in the old CBA, so they did the only thing they could do. He got rid of Nolan after he did a masterful job of covering up problems for 2/3 of the year. He raped the OL, just as he is doing now with STL. We had two great ZBS anchors and a pro bowl caliber OG, too. After 1 yr. with McD=trash.

McD set this team back 5 years at a minimum. Everything Shanny was building offensively, he destroyed in one fell swoop.

strafen
10-02-2011, 11:49 PM
All I know, they're making Tebow look like damaged goods. Tebow does not deserve this kind of management of his football career.
Fox can do better than this
The kid is being humiliated by Fox.
First he puts him in as a WR -albeit for injuries to out receiving corps- but still.
Then he puts him in the game today in a situation that if anything, was a waste of time. It served no purpose.

24champ
10-02-2011, 11:53 PM
McD was given a very nice cupboard on offense and he went about systematically trying to rape it. He created problems with Cutler, not vice versa. It was Cutler who went into the facility voluntarily to learn and work prior to the start of the league year.

This is where we disagree, who was working with Cutler on the playbook? McD. So that doesn't fly. The real culprit in that whole ordeal was Bowlen and his minions (Ellis and Co.). It was in fact Ellis dismantling everything Shanahan built.


Rather than being grateful for having a great talent to work with, he acted like a supreme ass, but go on keep glorifying douchebaggery. McD can blame himself, because he brought about complete destruction to this franchise. He made it a threshold requirement to drive away anyone with talent

McD had nothing but great things to say about Cutler, he TRIED to get him to stay in Denver. It was Bowlen that was not doing the listening, Bowlen wouldn't pick up the goddamn phone and squash everything. Why? Because Cutler ripped into him for firing his mentor and coach, Mike Shanahan. Don't underestimate that Cutler was *****ing livid about that move.

GreeleyGrizzley
10-02-2011, 11:54 PM
Yeah, Tebow's put in for one play and that's it... huh. Why even bother coach? I got an idea... put him in when we're in the red zone, or going for two... he might just have an impact.

What am I still doing awake... too many posts for this year...

ol#7
10-03-2011, 03:23 AM
All I know, they're making Tebow look like damaged goods. Tebow does not deserve this kind of management of his football career.
Fox can do better than this
The kid is being humiliated by Fox.
First he puts him in as a WR -albeit for injuries to out receiving corps- but still.
Then he puts him in the game today in a situation that if anything, was a waste of time. It served no purpose.

Did you notive the packers had a 5 WR set in there playbook? We dont even have 5 WR's on the roster!

Drek
10-03-2011, 05:32 AM
McD was given a very nice cupboard on offense and he went about systematically trying to rape it. He created problems with Cutler, not vice versa. It was Cutler who went into the facility voluntarily to learn and work prior to the start of the league year. Who the **** does he think he is treating Jay like that? He should have shut up and been respectful to his Pro Bowl QB. Rather than being grateful for having a great talent to work with, he acted like a supreme ass, but go on keep glorifying douchebaggery.
I sometimes really wonder how people still have this perspective on that situation. It is such a powerful form of delusional hero worship and I can't see how a 3rd year QB elicits such faith.

A few facts SoCal:
1. Everyone acknowledged that Cutler asked for a trade when Bates left, then retracted it.
2. Everyone acknowledges that McDaniels was approached with trade offers for Cutler initially and after cursory inspection did nothing to pursue them.
3. Everyone acknowledges that Cutler and his agent Bus Cook requested a trade shortly after that and refused to have meaningful conversations with the organization.
4. Everyone acknowledges that Bowlen, not McDaniels, ordered Cutler traded. This while McDaniels spent any public appearance repeating how he'd "see Cutler in camp and I'm sure we'll work it all out then".
5. Cutler in his first presser in Chicago outright said he never wanted to be traded yet his agent had previously admitted to asking for a trade request when Bates left, but retracted it, and then reiterated it when teams approached with trade offers at the combine and weren't immediately rejected.

Yet somehow McDaniels orchestrated this whole thing. Not Cutler and Cook, where Cook used almost the exact same media tactics with his two other big QB clients, Brett Favre and Steve McNair, when both of them wanted to change teams.

He treated Tony with contempt from Day 1 and failed to use him.
He treated Scheffler with contempt from day one despite using him as the primary receiving TE? Never mind that Scheffler came to camp with a stick up his ass because his best friend on the team was traded, or that when this team was still in playoff contention he was talking about wanting the season to end as soon as possible. McDaniels is the one who created problems there. Again, delusion.

He raped the OL, just as he is doing now with STL. We had two great ZBS anchors and a pro bowl caliber OG, too. After 1 yr. with McD=trash.
He "raped" the OL by letting old journeyman starters go? He failed to find good replacements who could step in from day one, definitely agree there, but you act like this OL wasn't headed for serious issues as it was, thanks to two very old starters at LG and C, an injury prone RT, and a LT who blew his knee apart playing basketball that off-season.

As for the Rams OL, I'd say the 2nd year LT and 3rd year RT who missed almost his entire rookie season to injury are the big problems with that OL, not the scheme. If their WRs could catch anything they would've easily beaten the Redskins yesterday.

McD set this team back 5 years at a minimum. Everything Shanny was building offensively, he destroyed in one fell swoop.
Yet his first year he replicated Shanahan's last, right down to the late season swoon assuring us of not making the playoffs.

McDaniels had a lot of **** ups. Letting his ego push out Nolan instead of using Nolan's vast experience to his advantage. Bringing in a QB guy to be the OC in name only when Dennison should have kept that job and given the balance between run and pass McDaniels claims he wanted. His willingness to bring in retreads instead of build a young talent base on the DL was a problem with Shanahan that he should have easily known to fix.

He was an absolutely god awful HC because he was completely unable to delegate and let the massive authority dropped in his lap by Bowlen and the 6-0 start go to his head. At that point he went full on crazy and entered self destruct mode.

Jay3
10-03-2011, 06:52 AM
A lady dressed in cheese,and a smile, came up to me after the game and asked, "why won't they play Tebow? I don't come to a lot of games. I'm not a Broncos fan, but I'd like to see him (Tebow) play."


I went to an away game last year and the opposing team's fans were asking me the same thing.

Liebs
10-03-2011, 07:25 AM
McD was given a very nice cupboard on offense and he went about systematically trying to rape it. He created problems with Cutler, not vice versa. It was Cutler who went into the facility voluntarily to learn and work prior to the start of the league year. Who the **** does he think he is treating Jay like that? He should have shut up and been respectful to his Pro Bowl QB. Rather than being grateful for having a great talent to work with, he acted like a supreme ass, but go on keep glorifying douchebaggery. McD can blame himself, because he brought about complete destruction to this franchise. He made it a threshold requirement to drive away anyone with talent. He treated Tony with contempt from Day 1 and failed to use him. And I dont care if Hillis was hitting his wife, either. Start winning us some games and then maybe I'll start caring. I'm not exactly sympathetic when we're going 2-8 to close the year. Get over it. I don't blame him for Marshall, there's nothing he could do there, there's no way to insure the risk in the old CBA, so they did the only thing they could do. He got rid of Nolan after he did a masterful job of covering up problems for 2/3 of the year. He raped the OL, just as he is doing now with STL. We had two great ZBS anchors and a pro bowl caliber OG, too. After 1 yr. with McD=trash.

McD set this team back 5 years at a minimum. Everything Shanny was building offensively, he destroyed in one fell swoop.

And Shanny's skins look pretty solid in year two

Hercules Rockefeller
10-03-2011, 07:41 AM
We're the Raiders and Lions of the 2000s.

Yeah, no they're not. You can keep trying to repeat things like that, but it doesn't make it true.

Detroit- in the last 10 drafts (2002-2011), they've picked in the Top 10 8 times and that includes the Top 3 5 times

Oakland- has picked in the Top 10 6 seperate times, and a 7th time they traded out of the Top 10 in the same time period.

Denver is going to be in the Top 10 for the 4th time ( 3 picks in 2012, 2011, 1991, and a trade out in 2000) in 21 years.

They suck, but get some ****ing perspective.

elsid13
10-03-2011, 07:48 AM
Yeah, no they're not. You can keep trying to repeat things like that, but it doesn't make it true.

Detroit- in the last 10 drafts (2002-2011), they've picked in the Top 10 8 times and that includes the Top 3 5 times

Oakland- has picked in the Top 10 6 seperate times, and a 7th time they traded out of the Top 10 in the same time period.

Denver is going to be in the Top 10 for the 4th time ( 3 picks in 2012, 2011, 1991, and a trade out in 2000) in 21 years.

They suck, but get some ****ing perspective.

The problem Herc that there is good trend indicating that Denver headed to number of top 10 picks in up coming years. We might get lucky, but I see total rebuild in order and that going to take time, unless we get extremely lucky and hit on number of low end draft picks.

gunns
10-03-2011, 08:16 AM
I disagree.. McD had to clean up the mess he inherited. That's likely the only reason he got the job no one else wanted.

He has taken the blame for problems Cutler and Marshal created from my viewpoint.

He was also trying to build a system like Belichicks where you don't rely on stars.. but blue collar guys who bust their butt constantly and fit into the system and team concept.

I agree he had to clean up the mess he inherited. He didn't. Defense was the part he had to really work on and he didn't. He tried to do what Belichick did by getting non stars, the part he forgot was the bust their butt part and overall talent. It's hard to say they were some of the worst picks, after some of Shanahan's drafts, but Moreno, DT and Tebow were a waste of 1st round picks. And he did what Shanahan did as far as free agency, picked up other teams garbage and players at the end of their time. He took an average team and made them worse.

gunns
10-03-2011, 08:19 AM
And Shanny's skins look pretty solid in year two

That's because he's not making all the calls in the off season. Maybe he's finally realizing that a team may not have a stout offense but damn that defense can do some damage. Years too late for the Broncos.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 08:22 AM
That's because he's not making all the calls in the off season. Maybe he's finally realizing that a team may not have a stout offense but damn that defense can do some damage. Years too late for the Broncos.

Gtfo. We were one of the best defenses in the NFL through the Al Wilson era.

ol#7
10-03-2011, 08:26 AM
I agree he had to clean up the mess he inherited. He didn't. Defense was the part he had to really work on and he didn't. He tried to do what Belichick did by getting non stars, the part he forgot was the bust their butt part and overall talent. It's hard to say they were some of the worst picks, after some of Shanahan's drafts, but Moreno, DT and Tebow were a waste of 1st round picks. And he did what Shanahan did as far as free agency, picked up other teams garbage and players at the end of their time. He took an average team and made them worse.

That was a young team with a legitimate nucleus to build around. I would say that the team was already on the way back when McD gutted it. I just wish we would have had one more year with shanny/goodmans to see how the defense would have been assembled, but I believe that there was a plan in place.

ol#7
10-03-2011, 08:31 AM
Gtfo. We were one of the best defenses in the NFL through the Al Wilson era.

Why does everyone think Shanny couldnt identify defensive talent? He did bring in plenty of good FA's and drafted a few studs as well. Any long time coach will have his share of busts, but for the most part he coached his way around the mistakes. I wonder if he will ever get his due around here.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 08:36 AM
Why does everyone think Shanny couldnt identify defensive talent? He did bring in plenty of good FA's and drafted a few studs as well. Any long time coach will have his share of busts, but for the most part he coached his way around the mistakes. I wonder if he will ever get his due around here.

The worst season we had under him was 6-10 over the better part of TWO DECADES!

It may take us the rest of the damned year to hit that worst season win total COMBINED with last years wins, in just a few short seasons after he left.

This is effing ludicrous and people don't mind Ha!

bendog
10-03-2011, 08:42 AM
It was wierd how many jumped on the "Josh bandwagon" before the kid enve coached a game.

elsid13
10-03-2011, 08:48 AM
That's because he's not making all the calls in the off season. Maybe he's finally realizing that a team may not have a stout offense but damn that defense can do some damage. Years too late for the Broncos.

Gunns the buck stop with Shanahan, he still makes all the calls. Allen and him have formed a good relationship, but at the end of the day Shanahan is the decision maker.

TheDave
10-03-2011, 08:52 AM
How many Daggers do i need...

TEBOW: I will have no problem joining the minions and screaming for Tebow once the bye-week hits. IMO, Orton earned the chance to start, guess I'm old school as well. But once you hit 1-4, the season is done... Time to call up the kids from AAA.

The Rest of the team: Look, I get everyones feelings...losing sucks. But take just a moment and gain some perspective. Think about 1998, we ran through teams like this more times than not...and we ran the ball, chewing clock, and limiting the time to score. I don't believe 8-10 GM's/coaches we faced deserved to be fired, we were just that good. This vertical spread **** GB runs with Aaron Rodgers is deadly. IMO they are just that good. Add to that our HOF corner was on the bench. Add to that we just got done surviving and 18 month cyclone. Add to that, we had a complete coaching/FO change this offseason...and no offseason. Everything lined up against us, and it felt like it.

Now I have my own opinions about how and why FA went the way it did. From a business perspective I get it. With no offseason and a new coaching staff I would rather the they see what can be done with the talent at hand before I spent a bunch of money... Especially when 8-8 was probably a high water mark anyways. I know business sucks... but this is what happens when the bean counters have a louder voice than they should. Having said that I do not believe that trend will continue. I think FA will be much busier now that the staff knows what they have.. Well, at least thats what I hope happens.

Hopefully this time next year we are arguing about how high the ceiling is for Luck/Barkley/Jones/??? ...

ol#7
10-03-2011, 08:54 AM
It was wierd how many jumped on the "Josh bandwagon" before the kid enve coached a game.

Its that damn 3 game slide to close out the year that messed with everyones heads. We were never supposed to win the division that year That was our rebuilding year But the offense was so far ahead of schedule that we stole a couple of games (Jets come to mind). Had either Bowe recovered a lousy onside kick or Stokly made an endzone grab, none of this ever plays out.

I think that Denver fans just couldnt imagine anything worse than that 'collapse' and lost the perspective that the team wasnt there yet. Had those losses came at different points in the year instead of down the stretch with the playoffs on the line, no way would we have been looking at kid-coach.

Hell, if Woody Paige hadnt written that article slamming Shanny for making Bowlen look like an incompetent boob, we probably wouldnt have made the switch either.

gunns
10-03-2011, 08:57 AM
Gtfo. We were one of the best defenses in the NFL through the Al Wilson era.

Depends on what you look at as a best defense. They are ranked for yards and often pts. Yes we had some decent defenses in those categories during that time but I look at takeaways/giveaways as the mark of a "best" defense. It reflects on an offense also, but it's usually the defense that saves that category. And during that time only 2000 and 2005 were we in the top 10. Most often in the bottom half. The other years, 1997 and 1998. The top team this year? Detroit. Most SB teams...and winners often are tops in that category.

Tombstone RJ
10-03-2011, 09:09 AM
The worst season we had under him was 6-10 over the better part of TWO DECADES!

It may take us the rest of the damned year to hit that worst season win total COMBINED with last years wins, in just a few short seasons after he left.

This is effing ludicrous and people don't mind Ha!

Shanny had to go. It was good for him too brosef. He was stuck in a rut in Denver and he just could not get on track.

I'm not sure why people refuse to understand that change was needed. You can debate all day long the McD mistake, but you can't debate that change was needed for both parties (the Broncos and Shanny).

One playoff win after Elway's retirement is all that needs to be said.

TailgateNut
10-03-2011, 09:11 AM
That's pretty amazing. I wish the TV had caught that....it would have been awkward for the commentators to explain away.

Alas, its just a matter of time at this point. The drumbeat will only get louder and louder as the losses pile up. Tebow is going to start and play...whole games, if for no other reason than the FO will have no other choice. They are already starting to crack. It's only going to get worse from here on out. Tebow will play or else gate revenues will drop over the course of the season. Our opinions and feelings might not be important to Bowlen, but his wallet it. Good people such as yourself are fed up, we're about ready to hit the old man in the pocket, so he better cave and at least let us get some excitement out of this crap....or else.

.....cause an opposing team fanbase would chant for the better qb...Hilarious!

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 09:15 AM
Shanny had to go. It was good for him too brosef. He was stuck in a rut in Denver and he just could not get on track.

I'm not sure why people refuse to understand that change was needed. You can debate all day long the McD mistake, but you can't debate that change was needed for both parties (the Broncos and Shanny).

One playoff win after Elway's retirement is all that needs to be said.

0 facts or supporting evidence or even substance to this post.

I understand you want to believe this, but all evidence is to the contrary. Here's the reality: We're now a TERRIBLE football team in depths we never came CLOSE to seeing when he was coaching here. Meanwhile, Washington was a favorite pick to be in the NFCE cellar and yet he has them in the division lead in one of the best divisions in football (along with the NFCN), playing strong defense, strong running game and making Rex GROSSMAN productive and we can't even figure out a way to use a guy as talented as Tim Tebow? ...C'mon man.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 09:16 AM
.....cause an opposing team fanbase would chant for the better qb...Hilarious!

When they're up by 4-5 scores? Why not?

They paid to see a football game and didnt get to see one.

SoCalBronco
10-03-2011, 09:20 AM
.....cause an opposing team fanbase would chant for the better qb...Hilarious!

I think they're chanting it in part to mock our situation and also because Tebow is kind of a league wide phenomenon, people would like to see what he's got and as the OP mentioned, a GB fan asked him this same question and was interested in seeing him play.

I know you hate Tebow's relgious beliefs (and his specific fanbase) and that colors your whole perspective, but don't you think its becoming a little hard for you to keep backing Orton given the performance he keeps putting up every week?

TheDave
10-03-2011, 09:21 AM
I fairness, Shanahan teams always look great the 1st half of the season...

I love the guy as much as anyone, but lets see if the skins are there in January.

jhns
10-03-2011, 09:22 AM
There are really McFans still trying to defend their hero? I'm not sure if this is funny or sad. Probably both.

SoCalBronco
10-03-2011, 09:22 AM
I fairness, Shanahan teams always look great the 1st half of the season...

I love the guy as much as anyone, but lets see if the skins are there in January.

Fair point, Dave. I think if they can get some more points out of their offense, they should be able to get to 10 wins. But they'll need to average 22-23 to do it, not the 17 they're at now. They should have scored alot more in the STL game.

Drek
10-03-2011, 09:22 AM
Hell, if Woody Paige hadnt written that article slamming Shanny for making Bowlen look like an incompetent boob, we probably wouldnt have made the switch either.

Shanahan was ousted because he wanted Bowlen to spend money on a new training facility. Bowlen apparently was fine with the whole Bob Slowdick sticking around thing. Its when Shanahan wanted to spend his paper that problems arose.

I'm now starting to wonder if Shanahan didn't see the writing on the wall and was pushing those financial buttons to get a reaction. Either Bowlen casts off the bean counter mindset being pushed by Ellis or Shanahan gets out of town before the **** really hits the fan.

Tombstone RJ
10-03-2011, 09:23 AM
0 facts or supporting evidence or even substance to this post.

I understand you want to believe this, but all evidence is to the contrary. Here's the reality: We're now a TERRIBLE football team in depths we never came CLOSE to seeing when he was coaching here. Meanwhile, Washington was a favorite pick to be in the NFCE cellar and yet he has them in the division lead in one of the best divisions in football (along with the NFCN), playing strong defense, strong running game and making Rex GROSSMAN productive and we can't even figure out a way to use a guy as talented as Tim Tebow? ...C'mon man.

1 playoff win after Elway's retirement is all that needs to be said. That was the last line of my post.

Also, you are ignoring the fact that I said that Shanahan needed to go to help his coaching career too. In other words, he needed the change too.

Not sure why you can't understand this...

SoCalBronco
10-03-2011, 09:24 AM
Shanahan was ousted because he wanted Bowlen to spend money on a new training facility. Bowlen apparently was fine with the whole Bob Slowdick sticking around thing. Its when Shanahan wanted to spend his paper that problems arose.

I'm now starting to wonder if Shanahan didn't see the writing on the wall and was pushing those financial buttons to get a reaction. Either Bowlen casts off the bean counter mindset being pushed by Ellis or Shanahan gets out of town before the **** really hits the fan.

Looks like the bean counter mindset won and is still winning even to this day.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 09:25 AM
1 playoff win after Elway's retirement is all that needs to be said. That was the last line of my post.

Also, you are ignoring the fact that I said that Shanahan needed to go to help his coaching career too. In other words, he needed the change too.

Not sure why you can't understand this...

Because that's the definition of subjective bull**** you use to justify being flat out wrong. Not sure why you can't understand this...

I deal in facts. When you have some, bring them to the table. Until then, see my last post because those realities and facts still stand.

TheDave
10-03-2011, 09:26 AM
Fair point, Dave. I think if they can get some more points out of their offense, they should be able to get to 10 wins. But they'll need to average 22-23 to do it, not the 17 they're at now. They should have scored alot more in the STL game.

As impressed as I am with the schematics of Green Bays offense... I still consider Shanahans system to be the most complete in the NFL. His ability to implement his offensive system regardless of the names on the jerseys is incredible.

jhns
10-03-2011, 09:26 AM
1 playoff win after Elway's retirement is all that needs to be said. That was the last line of my post.

Also, you are ignoring the fact that I said that Shanahan needed to go to help his coaching career too. In other words, he needed the change too.

Not sure why you can't understand this...

This franchise was far better in the decade after Elway than most any other franchise in history that lost a HOF QB. Don't let facts, or perspective, get in the way of the hate though. The alternative has sure proven to be great!

Tombstone RJ
10-03-2011, 09:27 AM
Because that's the definition of subjective bull**** you use to justify being flat out wrong. Not sure why you can't understand this...

I deal in facts. When you have some, bring them to the table. Until then, see my last post because those realities and facts still stand.

1 playoff win after Elway's retirement.

Tombstone RJ
10-03-2011, 09:27 AM
This franchise was far better in the decade after Elway than most any other franchise in history that lost a HOF QB. Don't let facts, or perspective, get in the way of the hate though. The alternative has sure proven to be great!

1 playoff win after Elway's retirement.

gyldenlove
10-03-2011, 09:28 AM
How many Daggers do i need...

TEBOW: I will have no problem joining the minions and screaming for Tebow once the bye-week hits. IMO, Orton earned the chance to start, guess I'm old school as well. But once you hit 1-4, the season is done... Time to call up the kids from AAA.

The Rest of the team: Look, I get everyones feelings...losing sucks. But take just a moment and gain some perspective. Think about 1998, we ran through teams like this more times than not...and we ran the ball, chewing clock, and limiting the time to score. I don't believe 8-10 GM's/coaches we faced deserved to be fired, we were just that good. This vertical spread **** GB runs with Aaron Rodgers is deadly. IMO they are just that good. Add to that our HOF corner was on the bench. Add to that we just got done surviving and 18 month cyclone. Add to that, we had a complete coaching/FO change this offseason...and no offseason. Everything lined up against us, and it felt like it.

Now I have my own opinions about how and why FA went the way it did. From a business perspective I get it. With no offseason and a new coaching staff I would rather the they see what can be done with the talent at hand before I spent a bunch of money... Especially when 8-8 was probably a high water mark anyways. I know business sucks... but this is what happens when the bean counters have a louder voice than they should. Having said that I do not believe that trend will continue. I think FA will be much busier now that the staff knows what they have.. Well, at least thats what I hope happens.

Hopefully this time next year we are arguing about how high the ceiling is for Luck/Barkley/Jones/??? ...

Well F me sideways with a salad fork, someone with an intelligent take on the Tebow situation.

I don't think we will learn anything by inserting Tebow before the bye week, we can not reasonably install a new QB along with the weekly playbook before the Chugger game, however with 2 weeks to prepare it becomes much more realistic if still a stretch.

We have seen so far this season exactly what this team is capable of and where in the pecking order they rank. We have the capability of winning games against other bad and mediocre teams on the back of decent scoring defense, special teams play and mistake free offense. We have also seen that when our special teams give up big plays (they have given up 2 huge plays in the regular season and one in the preseason, or when they make huge plays, they have made a few as well) it can determine the outcome of the game.

It is obvious that we are not going to compete in the AFC West this year even if it is still a weak division as it appears to be, so we need to find out where we stand. Orton and Quinn will most likely both be let go, I don't see us committing the type of money to Orton that he will want (although I doubt he will get anything close to what he wants) and Quinn I think wants to be in a place where he will get a shot at starting, so I could see him go to a team with an unsettled QB position like Seattle. That leaves Tebow and regardless how much faith the coaches have in him we need to know if we can work with him or if we are going all out drafting QB in round 1.

What we saw against Green Bay is that our secondary is not strong enough to compete, Vaughn and Dawkins are both liabilities down the field, Wilhite is not a servicable nickel and Goodman is not a guy who contests passes. We absolutely need to upgrade at CB, it is the biggest weakness of the team and must be addressed.

maher_tyler
10-03-2011, 09:33 AM
Shanny had to go. It was good for him too brosef. He was stuck in a rut in Denver and he just could not get on track.

I'm not sure why people refuse to understand that change was needed. You can debate all day long the McD mistake, but you can't debate that change was needed for both parties (the Broncos and Shanny).

One playoff win after Elway's retirement is all that needs to be said.

That and our D was much worse than it is now, believe it or not...

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 09:34 AM
1 playoff win after Elway's retirement.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3385/3480468593_d4ed2b2df4.jpg

jhns
10-03-2011, 09:34 AM
1 playoff win after Elway's retirement.

You got what you wanted. Sure is better!

Darkdoc
10-03-2011, 09:35 AM
I really don't understand why Fox would think in any terms about getting Luck.

#1. If the Broncos are bad enough to go for Luck, Fox will not likely still be in Denver. Yes, it is unusual for a coach to be fired after one year, but that means the team regressed even further from last year's 4-12. If Fox screws this up that badly, he won't find another head coaching job, except maybe in college. His 1970's style offense is beyond belief.

#2. Let's imagine Luck in Fox's offense. Talk about a quarterback killer. You better pray if Luck does come to Denver that Fox is gone.

Drek
10-03-2011, 09:37 AM
Looks like the bean counter mindset won and is still winning even to this day.

Of course, because Bowlen's ****ing broke.

He bought the team on family credit and now the fam wants their investment to pay off. So we see guys like Ellis and Xanders making the decisions, funneling team money into other people's pockets.

Top 10 in revenue, bottom 10 in cash spent on the field. Thats a large pile of cash slipping out the back door every ****ing season.

I think Cutler is a whiny douche who let his agent run a PR war against this organization to get out of town. But seeings how Cook's job is to protect Cutler's best interests, not Bowlen's, its pretty clear to see why Cook would do that. Cook knows the inner workings of NFL clubs as well as anyone. He clearly no longer liked the idea of his only starting QB client remaining with this club and he did what was needed to move on. Its a business first and foremost, Bowlen is making that abundantly clear to us now.

Tombstone RJ
10-03-2011, 09:38 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3385/3480468593_d4ed2b2df4.jpg

:wave:

OABB
10-03-2011, 09:40 AM
Yesterday we looked like we did against the colts in the shanny top ten defense era!

We are back baby!

TheDave
10-03-2011, 09:40 AM
I really don't understand why Fox would think in any terms about getting Luck.

#1. If the Broncos are bad enough to go for Luck, Fox will not likely still be in Denver. Yes, it is unusual for a coach to be fired after one year, but that means the team regressed even further from last year's 4-12. If Fox screws this up that badly, he won't find another head coaching job, except maybe in college. His 1970's style offense is beyond belief.

#2. Let's imagine Luck in Fox's offense. Talk about a quarterback killer. You better pray if Luck does come to Denver that Fox is gone.

Before we determine that Fox is stuck in the disco era... Consider this:

We have 2 healthy starting caliber Wr's, 0 starting caliber receiving TE's, and 3 ****ty QB's... We have nothing but a couple mid level RB's and an offensive line that if nothing else is tenacious and a bit nasty.

Pounding the ball is our only viable option.

Tombstone RJ
10-03-2011, 09:41 AM
You got what you wanted. Sure is better!

I like the fact that there's not one guy running everything but I hate the fact that Orton is the QB. I'm not happy about what is going on, nor the Bronco's record. I wish they'd play Tebow. All I can say is that this is EFX's first year and Fox's first year and we're gonna have to wait and see what happens.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 09:44 AM
Before we determine that Fox is stuck in the disco era... Consider this:

We have 2 healthy starting caliber Wr's, 0 starting caliber recieving TE's, and 3 ****ty QB's... We have nothing but a couple mid level RB's and an offensive line that if nothing else is tenacios and a bit nasty.

Pounding the ball is our only viable option.

You'd totally have a point.

...had he not hand-picked McGahee, Fells, Thomas and Green, the current QB and Franklin while not adding depth to OL or WR.

There were HoF interior OL out there for cheap this off-season, so I don't wanna hear it.

We traded Gaffney for a 3rd string player that's been cut, so I don't wanna hear it.

We drafted TWO receiving TE's instead of even glancing at our glaring need at CB, so I don't wanna hear it.

And we teased the fan base by dangling Tebow only to snatch it away for Mr "Check Out My Garbage Time Stats!" Orton, so I don't wanna hear it.

Drek
10-03-2011, 09:47 AM
I like the fact that there's not one guy running everything but I hate the fact that Orton is the QB. I'm not happy about what is going on, nor the Bronco's record. I wish they'd play Tebow. All I can say is that this is EFX's first year and Fox's first year and we're gonna have to wait and see what happens.

Josh McDaniels burnt what little Shanahan left him to the ****ing ground and even he had a better opening act than what this new management has shown us.

I'm all for the "wait and see" approach. But all I'm seeing is a team with no clue what they're trying to do. Rebuild? Then why so many vets near the end on this team? Win now? Then why leave massive gapping holes all over the roster? No explanations for it.

TheDave
10-03-2011, 09:50 AM
You'd totally have a point.

...had he not hand-picked McGahee, Fells, Thomas and Green, the current QB and Franklin while not adding depth to OL or WR.

There were HoF interior OL out there for cheap this off-season, so I don't wanna hear it.

We traded Gaffney for a 3rd string player that's been cut, so I don't wanna hear it.

We drafted TWO TE's instead of even glancing at our glaring need at CB, so I don't wanna hear it.

And we teased the fan base by dangling Tebow only to snatch it away for Mr "Check Out My Garbage Time Stats!" Orton, so I don't wanna hear it.

None of this has anything to do with the theory that Fox is unable to see past the trap block. We, as an organization made those decisions, and now because of injuries and a lack of talent in general we are running the ball.

If Fox thought he could imploy something resembling the the GB offense and win, he would... But right now we seem to struggle with simple things like WR and QB being on the same page (pick #1).

Point is, we didn't do enough in the offseason to fix the recent cyclone. I know that, but it doesn't mean the HC is unable to cope with the modern game.

peacepipe
10-03-2011, 09:50 AM
McD was given a very nice cupboard on offense and he went about systematically trying to rape it. He created problems with Cutler, not vice versa. It was Cutler who went into the facility voluntarily to learn and work prior to the start of the league year. Who the **** does he think he is treating Jay like that? He should have shut up and been respectful to his Pro Bowl QB. Rather than being grateful for having a great talent to work with, he acted like a supreme ass, but go on keep glorifying douchebaggery. McD can blame himself, because he brought about complete destruction to this franchise. He made it a threshold requirement to drive away anyone with talent. He treated Tony with contempt from Day 1 and failed to use him. And I dont care if Hillis was hitting his wife, either. Start winning us some games and then maybe I'll start caring. I'm not exactly sympathetic when we're going 2-8 to close the year. Get over it. I don't blame him for Marshall, there's nothing he could do there, there's no way to insure the risk in the old CBA, so they did the only thing they could do. He got rid of Nolan after he did a masterful job of covering up problems for 2/3 of the year. He raped the OL, just as he is doing now with STL. We had two great ZBS anchors and a pro bowl caliber OG, too. After 1 yr. with McD=trash.

McD set this team back 5 years at a minimum. Everything Shanny was building offensively, he destroyed in one fell swoop.McGoober is a tebow fan,not a broncos fan. pointing out the facts is a waste of time.

Tombstone RJ
10-03-2011, 09:52 AM
Josh McDaniels burnt what little Shanahan left him to the ****ing ground and even he had a better opening act than what this new management has shown us.

I'm all for the "wait and see" approach. But all I'm seeing is a team with no clue what they're trying to do. Rebuild? Then why so many vets near the end on this team? Win now? Then why leave massive gapping holes all over the roster? No explanations for it.

Hopefully this crappy start will force Fox's hand and he'll play Tebow sooner rather than later.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 09:55 AM
None of this has anything to do with the theory that Fox is unable to see past the trap block. We, as an organization made those decisions, and now because of injuries and a lack of talent in general we are running the ball.

...but you were the one who just blamed it on talent and depth? I was responding to that lol

If Fox thought he could imploy something resembling the the GB offense and win, he would... But right now we seem to struggle with simple things like WR and QB being on the same page (pick #1).

I wonder where the blame lies for something like that ::)

Point is, we didn't do enough in the offseason to fix the recent cyclone. I know that, but it doesn't mean the HC is unable to cope with the modern game.

You responded to a post RE: Luck and Fox and have taken it someplace completely different?

Dedhed
10-03-2011, 09:55 AM
Gtfo. We were one of the best defenses in the NFL through the Al Wilson era.

And yet a single playoff victory. You can't have it both ways. If you have "one of the best defenses in the NFL" and almost no playoff success, wouldn't you have to hang the blame on the Mastermind's offense?

strafen
10-03-2011, 09:56 AM
I like the fact that there's not one guy running everything but I hate the fact that Orton is the QB. I'm not happy about what is going on, nor the Bronco's record. I wish they'd play Tebow. All I can say is that this is EFX's first year and Fox's first year and we're gonna have to wait and see what happens.Just like we did with McDaniels.
Let's give him 2 years!!!
I already see Fox as a failure. If you can't see it, then you have not learned a lesson from the McDaniels way of handling a franchise
Do you think Shanahan was doomed to not ever get us in the play-offs again?

This was a respectable franchise with a high set of standards. Shanahan kept this team competitive year in year out, but never let this franchise hit rock bottom like it has since he's been gone.

Dedhed
10-03-2011, 09:56 AM
Hopefully this crappy start will force Fox's hand and he'll play Tebow sooner rather than later.

Didn't you hear? He already played Tebow at quarterback and he was unsuccessful.

Tombstone RJ
10-03-2011, 10:04 AM
Didn't you hear? He already played Tebow at quarterback and he was unsuccessful.

Yah, I heard about that quote. Fox and Elway must think Broncos fans are complete morons. Some of the stuff they utter is mystifying...

TheDave
10-03-2011, 10:08 AM
...but you were the one who just blamed it on talent and depth? I was responding to that lol



I wonder where the blame lies for something like that ::)



You responded to a post RE: Luck and Fox and have taken it someplace completely different?

Were talking right past each other.

Let me try this...

Ellis and Bowlen make a budget

Elway/Fox/Xanders implement said budget trying to plug as many holes as possible.

Because team had so many holes not all of them are filled with the funds available.

Injuries hit a relitively talentless team

Fans call offense boring and say John Fox is stuck in the 70's

I disagree and say he is doing what he can with what he has. IE running the ball. Not because he lacks imagination and ability to implement a modern passing game, but because he has limited talent and limited funds.

Now, tell me again what you disagree with and we can go from there.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 10:14 AM
Were talking right past each other.

Let me try this...

Ellis and Bowlen make a budget

Elway/Fox/Xanders implement said budget trying to plug as many holes as possible.

Because team had so many holes not all of them are filled with the funds available.

Injuries hit a relitively talentless team

Fans call offense boring and say John Fox is stuck in the 70's

I disagree and say he is doing what he can with what he has. IE running the ball. Not because he lacks imagination and ability to implement a modern passing game, but because he has limited talent and limited funds.

Now, tell me again what you disagree with and we can go from there.

He's handpicked the majority of the ingredients he's cooking with... He saddled himself with a **** sandwich and not vice versa

oubronco
10-03-2011, 10:23 AM
Were talking right past each other.

Let me try this...

Ellis and Bowlen make a budget

Elway/Fox/Xanders implement said budget trying to plug as many holes as possible.

Because team had so many holes not all of them are filled with the funds available.

Injuries hit a relitively talentless team

Fans call offense boring and say John Fox is stuck in the 70's

I disagree and say he is doing what he can with what he has. IE running the ball. Not because he lacks imagination and ability to implement a modern passing game, but because he has limited talent and limited funds.

Now, tell me again what you disagree with and we can go from there.

This team has needed a infusion of young talent for a long time and this plug and play 2nd hand free agent crap has lead us to what we have now

It will take time to fix this crap but they blew a very good opportunity to fill some of those holes with a once in a lifetime free agency period that had alot of top young good players

Dedhed
10-03-2011, 10:58 AM
The only dagger the Packers really needed was provided by Orton in the first quarter.

TheDave
10-03-2011, 11:06 AM
He's handpicked the majority of the ingredients he's cooking with... He saddled himself with a **** sandwich and not vice versa

I'm assuming EFX spent everything they were allowed to... Unless this business operates radically different than all others Ellis and Co set the budget. Elway and Co buy the supplies based on what they have to spend. I find it almost impossible to believe that the FO thought they had done everything required.

I think you might be misplacing some of your anger on the FA side of things.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 11:10 AM
I'm assuming EFX spent everything they were allowed to... Unless this business operates radically different than all others Ellis and Co set the budget. Elway and Co buy the supplies based on what they have to spend. I find it almost impossible to believe that the FO thought they had done everything required.

I think you might be misplacing some of your anger on the FA side of things.

...Where could they have possibly found another 9 million dollars to use on offense?

Drek
10-03-2011, 11:11 AM
It will take time to fix this crap but they blew a very good opportunity to fill some of those holes with a once in a lifetime free agency period that had alot of top young good players

See, this is what I've been saying for months on here. FA isn't the soul answer we'll use to fix this team and we definitely have a ways to go before we're back to the top of the league, but this FA period was exceptionally ripe with good young talent.

Instead we signed an old DE/DT who won't be here in a year or two, an old RB who won't be here in a year or two, and then called it quits.

How much different would we be if instead of wasting money on Orton, Warren, and McGahee we did a real rebuild attempt and brought in young guys like Marshall, Mebane, and Jason Snelling? We might actually have some real answers as to who plays CB, DT, and RB three years from now.

TheDave
10-03-2011, 11:20 AM
...Where could they have possibly found another 9 million dollars to use on offense?


and they explored that... unfortunately it didn't work. Then the chosen one showed up so impressive that orton was named the starter days later.

it is what it is... I don't agree with everything they did either, but when crap is this pathetic and funds are limited, there is only soo much they can do.

Like i've said before... Hopefully everyone feels a little better about things when Luck/Barkley/Jones/Palmer is under center.

24champ
10-03-2011, 11:45 AM
and they explored that... unfortunately it didn't work. Then the chosen one showed up so impressive that orton was named the starter days later.

They botched it, big time.

They had made outrageous demands for Orton, and now Orton's value is worthless. Broncos are on the hook for 9 million to a worthless QB that won't be around next season and will walk away while we get nothing for him.

Just another case of bad asset management by this FO, just a bunch of apes at the controls.

TheReverend
10-03-2011, 11:48 AM
and they explored that... unfortunately it didn't work. Then the chosen one showed up so impressive that orton was named the starter days later.

it is what it is... I don't agree with everything they did either, but when crap is this pathetic and funds are limited, there is only soo much they can do.

Like i've said before... Hopefully everyone feels a little better about things when Luck/Barkley/Jones/Palmer is under center.

Ah, so they explored that lol. I suppose they also explored Jarmon in Washington and gave up Gaffney on a cheap price tag for him? Our WR depth was one of your complaints, after all. So was RB... wasn't McGahee our top priority this off-season?

Did we EXPLORE looking at OL depth?

gunns
10-03-2011, 06:09 PM
Hopefully this crappy start will force Fox's hand and he'll play Tebow sooner rather than later.

Even Indy figured it out.

houghtam
10-03-2011, 07:57 PM
We're the Raiders and Lions of the 2000s.

And the Bengals of the past 20 years.

Dedhed
10-03-2011, 08:12 PM
They botched it, big time.

They had made outrageous demands for Orton, and now Orton's value is worthless. Broncos are on the hook for 9 million to a worthless QB that won't be around next season and will walk away while we get nothing for him.

Just another case of bad asset management by this FO, just a bunch of apes at the controls.

I was all for playing hardball on trading Orton, but I was working from the perspective that the worst case scenario if he wasn't traded was that he would be a high priced backup.

I never thought after Tebow outplayed him last year that we would be in this situation, which is much worse.

Jetmeck
10-03-2011, 08:39 PM
I disagree.. McD had to clean up the mess he inherited. That's likely the only reason he got the job no one else wanted.

He has taken the blame for problems Cutler and Marshal created from my viewpoint.

He was also trying to build a system like Belichicks where you don't rely on stars.. but blue collar guys who bust their butt constantly and fit into the system and team concept.

bLUE COLLAR MY ASS.................tOM fREAKIN bRADY...........IS THE ONLY REASON THE DUMBASS bELLICHECK IS RELEVANT. w/O A CENTER PIECE qb HIS SYSTEM WHICH ACTUALLKY IS NO SYSTEM AT ALL IS IRRELEVANT AS bELLICHECK WILL BE THE DAY bRADY IS GONE.

jUST SEE cLEVELAND IF IN DOUBT...............

Bronco Yoda
10-03-2011, 09:04 PM
I fairness, Shanahan teams always look great the 1st half of the season...

I love the guy as much as anyone, but lets see if the skins are there in January.

Mike was always known for his fast starts. Seasons and in games. The finish wasn't always so pretty.

Dedhed
10-03-2011, 09:15 PM
Mike was always known for his fast starts. Seasons and in games. The finish wasn't always so pretty.

Mike was a great planner, but terrible at making adjustments to counter the other teams adjustments.