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Quoydogs
09-29-2011, 12:45 PM
This is from Elway and I hate to say it but this is the problem with our F.O

"We're just three games into our first season together as a staff. And if you look at the three games, every one of them could have gone either way. If we were getting beat 41-0 in every game, I think it's a different situation."

My point is an L is an L no matter if its by 3 points or 500. They need to start thinking this way or we are going to be in big trouble for a long long time.

Here is the link to the article. Pretty good read.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19000691?utm_medium=facebook

go_broncos
09-29-2011, 12:50 PM
I lost confidence in EFX when they announced Orton has a starter.It's frustrating that they still think Orton as a good QB.

Rabb
09-29-2011, 12:51 PM
I hate when close games are spun as "oh well we could have..." in a loss. Yes John, we could have. Had we not made stupid ass mistakes, a couple at the QB position, we WOULD have.

Too bad there isn't **** in the standings for "aww shucks"

God I hope they get their crap together

mkporter
09-29-2011, 01:00 PM
This is from Elway and I hate to say it but this is the problem with our F.O

"We're just three games into our first season together as a staff. And if you look at the three games, every one of them could have gone either way. If we were getting beat 41-0 in every game, I think it's a different situation."

My point is an L is an L no matter if its by 3 points or 500. They need to start thinking this way or we are going to be in big trouble for a long long time.

Here is the link to the article. Pretty good read.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19000691?utm_medium=facebook

Yeah, the loss counts the same, but the focus should be on making your team better every week. You take much more drastic measures if you are losing by 30 than if you are losing by 3.

crush17
09-29-2011, 01:05 PM
We needed another thread for this?

broncswin
09-29-2011, 01:08 PM
We needed another thread for this?

I am on it

gyldenlove
09-29-2011, 01:09 PM
Yeah, the loss counts the same, but the focus should be on making your team better every week. You take much more drastic measures if you are losing by 30 than if you are losing by 3.

The difference between the team that lost by 3 to the Raiders 3 weeks ago the team that lost by 45 last year is enormous. The team that gave up the biggest loss in team history to the Raiders was an embarrassment, it was a team of losers who did not fight and did not play despite facing the biggest rival. The difference between losing by 3 and winning by 3 is a couple of upgrades, the difference between losing by 45 and losing by 3 is a new front office, new coaching staff and a handful of starters - those are pains we do not have to go through again to get better.

Drek
09-29-2011, 01:10 PM
Yeah, the loss counts the same, but the focus should be on making your team better every week. You take much more drastic measures if you are losing by 30 than if you are losing by 3.

People (including myself) made these same excuses just last season.

Week 1: "man, Jacksonville only beat us by a TD and it was an early morning east coast game, we always lose those! Some good things to take from the loss."

Week 2: "**** yeah! We just crushed them Seahawks. Thomas is going to be a beast this year! Watch out rest of the NFC West if thats the best you got to offer up!"

Week 3: "We controlled the ball and marched up and down on the Colts. As soon as we find a rhythm and turn these FGs into TDs we're going to be good!"

Week 4: "Man, with a beat up club we just owned the Titans in their house, Orton looks like a pro-bowler this year! Watch out NFL, Broncos on the move!"

Week 5: "Another early east coast game against a real good Ravens team, no reason to panic here folks, we'll pick it up!"

Week 6: "We played the Jets to the wire, a few extra breaks and we knock off a team who made the AFCC last year!"

Week 7: "**** WAS THAT?!?"

See how it goes? We've scuffled and gone 1-2 against some pretty mediocre teams. Oakland dominated us and their own mistakes were the only thing that kept it close. Tennessee played a sloppy game while we had the cleanest performance in probably two or three years, but we still lost and only put up 14 points. We beat Cincy in Denver, barely, and came very close to letting Cincy get in field goal range for the win before the defense finally held up against a rookie QB.

If we only get our asses kicked by two scores in Green Bay will you take that as a positive?

Quoydogs
09-29-2011, 01:12 PM
We needed another thread for this?

Sorry I did not see a thread on this. Chill out buddy. Smoke a joint relax and focus you angry energy on the people in the F.O. not maners

crush17
09-29-2011, 01:14 PM
Sorry I did not see a thread on this. Chill out buddy. Smoke a joint relax and focus you angry energy on the people in the F.O. not maners

If you think that response was "angry" then I dont know what to tell you

Quoydogs
09-29-2011, 01:17 PM
People (including myself) made these same excuses just last season.

Week 1: "man, Jacksonville only beat us by a TD and it was an early morning east coast game, we always lose those! Some good things to take from the loss."

Week 2: "**** yeah! We just crushed them Seahawks. Thomas is going to be a beast this year! Watch out rest of the NFC West if thats the best you got to offer up!"

Week 3: "We controlled the ball and marched up and down on the Colts. As soon as we find a rhythm and turn these FGs into TDs we're going to be good!"

Week 4: "Man, with a beat up club we just owned the Titans in their house, Orton looks like a pro-bowler this year! Watch out NFL, Broncos on the move!"

Week 5: "Another early east coast game against a real good Ravens team, no reason to panic here folks, we'll pick it up!"

Week 6: "We played the Jets to the wire, a few extra breaks and we knock off a team who made the AFCC last year!"

Week 7: "**** WAS THAT?!?"

See how it goes? We've scuffled and gone 1-2 against some pretty mediocre teams. Oakland dominated us and their own mistakes were the only thing that kept it close. Tennessee played a sloppy game while we had the cleanest performance in probably two or three years, but we still lost and only put up 14 points. We beat Cincy in Denver, barely, and came very close to letting Cincy get in field goal range for the win before the defense finally held up against a rookie QB.

If we only get our asses kicked by two scores in Green Bay will you take that as a positive?
This.

If we have other options it's time to use them. Settling is not a win first attitude and that 's what we need. Put the pride aside, open the check book, trade/cut/bench Orton and lets start winning some games.

Jay3
09-29-2011, 01:17 PM
The main problem is the QB thing. We were told last year that Kyle Orton was great because he had high yardage totals on high attempts. But every time a game seemed close or winnable, where his play would make a difference, the opposing defense seemed to be able to bear down and stop him.

That's Kyle Orton. Does some good things, but when you really need to, you can stop him.

Last year, we were told "the defense and the run game is the problem. Stop questioning Kyle."

Now, the defense is improved. The run game is not great, but it is improving. And it still seems like opposing teams can get done what they need to do to shut Kyle down.

So the closeness of the game is LESS encouraging, not MORE encouraging. We were led to believe last year that Kyle's greatness would really show if only there were a respectable defense and respectable run game. That has been shown to be a lie, and the thought of facing a whole season with Eeyore under center has people despondent and pulling at their eyelids.

Binkythefrog
09-29-2011, 01:29 PM
I lost confidence in EFX when they announced Orton has a starter.It's frustrating that they still think Orton as a good QB.

I don't think EFX thinks Orton is a good QB. Remember they did try to trade him. They only think he "gives them a better chance to win" (which I don't agree with but whatever).

I'm not going to judge the FO based on one player decision. They are going to have to make 20 - 30ish or so good player decisions for the Broncos to get back on top, and they've made a couple good ones already (Miller, Bunkley), and a couple decent ones (Moore, Franklin), and probably a couple bad ones too (trading Gaffney).

We were never going to get an established proven successful FO guy who had Super Bowl wins under his belt.. those guys already have plush jobs (maybe Pioli, but he is sucking). The Broncos had to try something slightly different. I'll wait a couple years before deciding if EFX blows or not.

Agamemnon
09-29-2011, 01:47 PM
Elway and Fox are both full of ****. Period.

bendog
09-29-2011, 01:48 PM
It's a failed regieme. Time to pull the plug and bring in someone new.

chrisp
09-29-2011, 01:59 PM
Whether they play Orton or Tebow is one thing - you can agree or disagree on that, but whatever your opinion on the QB, the one thing the coaching staff absolutely must not do is panic and change the plan becuase of a couple of losses.

You see, there may have been a shortened (and therefore more challenging) offseason but there still was a plan. They worked out how they wanted the team to play, how they wanted to draft and yes, exactly what they though most important in their starting QB.

Now their plan may have been right, or it may have been wrong, but they have to stick to it. They have to show the courage of their convictions and stay true to what they believed in as other wise we are most definitely completely lost.

MacGruder
09-29-2011, 02:04 PM
The difference between the team that lost by 3 to the Raiders 3 weeks ago the team that lost by 45 last year is enormous. The team that gave up the biggest loss in team history to the Raiders was an embarrassment, it was a team of losers who did not fight and did not play despite facing the biggest rival.

I disagree completely. It is really all about styles to me. I think this is why Fox is so enamored with his style.. because it ensures there won't be a big blowout. But take that first Raiders game this season.. the score was completely inaccurate showing how lopsided that game was and how inept the offense was.

The games may look close but because of Orton's limitations they are still no closer winning them.

What Fox is doing is playing 80s basketball... where they dribble the ball for 20 seconds of the shot clock and then run their post play.

Agamemnon
09-29-2011, 02:04 PM
Whether they play Orton or Tebow is one thing - you can agree or disagree on that, but whatever your opinion on the QB, the one thing the coaching staff absolutely must not do is panic and change the plan becuase of a couple of losses.

You see, there may have been a shortened (and therefore more challenging) offseason but there still was a plan. They worked out how they wanted the team to play, how they wanted to draft and yes, exactly what they though most important in their starting QB.

Now their plan may have been right, or it may have been wrong, but they have to stick to it. They have to show the courage of their convictions and stay true to what they believed in as other wise we are most definitely completely lost.

Pretty sure they are already completely lost anyway. So I'm not sure how sticking with a brain dead plan is going to change that. Starting Orton and trying to be a run-first team with no real talent on the OL or RB corps is a really ****ing terrible plan.

dbfan4life
09-29-2011, 02:08 PM
This is from Elway and I hate to say it but this is the problem with our F.O

"We're just three games into our first season together as a staff. And if you look at the three games, every one of them could have gone either way. If we were getting beat 41-0 in every game, I think it's a different situation."



Why isn't he right? All that losing by 3 pts every weeks is doing is keeping Tebow on the bench which is really what pisses most of you off! Hilarious!

mkporter
09-29-2011, 02:10 PM
If we only get our asses kicked by two scores in Green Bay will you take that as a positive?

No, that won't be a positive. Last year we kept it close for several games, then started to have some really ugly losses. IMO, this doesn't mean that we should start being really concerned about losing close games early this season, because that is going to lead to ugly losses. It just means we should keep perspective and be willing to change our opinions and our evaluations as the season progresses.

MacGruder
09-29-2011, 02:18 PM
What I don't understand is why they put so much public pressure on Tebow and seemingly put no pressure on Orton. It's almost as if Tebow is the one who has been losing for years holding the team back rather than Orton.

The level of criticism Orton gets publicly from the fans and players and coaches and management seems ridiculously minute compared to how he is playing.

They say the games are close but so were the ones Tebow lost last season. Orton has been shown to play worse than Tebow in actual games.. and Tebow was in the worst situation imaginable.

The Broncos are probably using the lockout as an excuse for their poor play.. but all the teams went through the same thing. Orton should have had an advantage over some other teams because he had more continuity.

TheDave
09-29-2011, 02:22 PM
Damn that month went fast...

bendog
09-29-2011, 02:24 PM
The only one who ever had the lockout used as an excuse for his disappointing play was Tebow. the espn talking heads are all over it, "the lockout really hurt Tebow...."

Drek
09-29-2011, 02:32 PM
No, that won't be a positive. Last year we kept it close for several games, then started to have some really ugly losses. IMO, this doesn't mean that we should start being really concerned about losing close games early this season, because that is going to lead to ugly losses. It just means we should keep perspective and be willing to change our opinions and our evaluations as the season progresses.

Last year we lost competitive games to good teams. This year we lose competitive games to mediocre teams.

Improvement?

Tombstone RJ
09-29-2011, 02:42 PM
The FO must really think Broncos fans are morons. They must think we are too stupid to see what is going on. They must think that they are just way smarter than all of us morons who buy tickets. They must think that we like losing close games because it's better to lose pretty than win ugly, right EFX?

wtf

MacGruder
09-29-2011, 02:43 PM
The only one who ever had the lockout used as an excuse for his disappointing play was Tebow. the espn talking heads are all over it, "the lockout really hurt Tebow...."

An excuse? He was said to be 4th string.. doesn't seem like anyone allowed him to have any excuses. That's my point.

Tebow is also changing all his mechanics, footwork and playing style. It sounds like he worked too hard trying to change things rather than not hard enough. The guys coaching him really should have pulled the reigns back on Tebow in that regard.

mkporter
09-29-2011, 02:45 PM
Last year we lost competitive games to good teams. This year we lose competitive games to mediocre teams.

Improvement?

I'll let you know once we know how mediocre the teams were we've played are, and how well we do against the good teams coming up on our schedule.

Lestat
09-29-2011, 02:45 PM
the idea is to see marked improvement in areas every week. winning is a key goal but if you're going to lose you want to see improvement while losing by 3-5, you don't want to be getting blown out and the issues getting worse.

MacGruder
09-29-2011, 02:57 PM
the idea is to see marked improvement in areas every week. winning is a key goal but if you're going to lose you want to see improvement while losing by 3-5, you don't want to be getting blown out and the issues getting worse.

If you compare the offensive numbers from last season to this season there has been a monumental regression.

This is why it is so misleading to say the defense has improved. The teams style has changed.. you could make the argument that the team was better last year with McDaniels.

Eldorado
09-29-2011, 03:01 PM
You could make that argument. It'd be a stupid one, but you could make it.

Mr. Elway
09-29-2011, 03:03 PM
the idea is to see marked improvement in areas every week. winning is a key goal but if you're going to lose you want to see improvement while losing by 3-5, you don't want to be getting blown out and the issues getting worse.

Rational thought alert! You are exactly right. Obviously Elway understands the importance of winning (really, we're questioning that already?), but you don't go from 4-12 to winning consistently overnight. Not getting blown out is a good step on that road, following last year.

Not saying we won't start getting blown out, and if we do that changes the landscape considerably. But right now, Elway's point is perfectly reasonable.

MacGruder
09-29-2011, 03:03 PM
You could make that argument. It'd be a stupid one, but you could make it.

It's as stupid as saying the defense is better just because they have slowed the offense down so much.

Or that the games are closer so you had more of a chance of winning them. Slowing the pace of the game down has just magnified how inept the offense is.

Or as stupid as saying that because Orton had inflated stats last season he was a good QB.

maher_tyler
09-29-2011, 03:08 PM
Whether they play Orton or Tebow is one thing - you can agree or disagree on that, but whatever your opinion on the QB, the one thing the coaching staff absolutely must not do is panic and change the plan becuase of a couple of losses.

You see, there may have been a shortened (and therefore more challenging) offseason but there still was a plan. They worked out how they wanted the team to play, how they wanted to draft and yes, exactly what they though most important in their starting QB.

Now their plan may have been right, or it may have been wrong, but they have to stick to it. They have to show the courage of their convictions and stay true to what they believed in as other wise we are most definitely completely lost.

I disagree. It's like making adjustments at halftime. If you don't make a change when something isn't working, you're going to get your ass kicked. What will that accomplish other than more L's?? It's ok to admit when you're wrong!

Mr. Elway
09-29-2011, 03:13 PM
Sigh. Once again, every thread starts to take on the same inevitable structure we've seen again and again during The Tebow Era:

[somebody]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder] (finally goes postal again and banned)

broncocalijohn
09-29-2011, 03:15 PM
I hate when close games are spun as "oh well we could have..." in a loss. Yes John, we could have. Had we not made stupid ass mistakes, a couple at the QB position, we WOULD have.

Too bad there isn't **** in the standings for "aww shucks"

God I hope they get their crap together

I wonder if the Bills' fans were saying the same thing last year with all their close losses. Now they have turned those close losses into wins and are currently 3-0. It does make a difference. You just might not see it this year. Last year we had close games and some major blowouts. I don't see that happening this year and first test is Sunday.

broncocalijohn
09-29-2011, 03:17 PM
I disagree completely. It is really all about styles to me. I think this is why Fox is so enamored with his style.. because it ensures there won't be a big blowout. But take that first Raiders game this season.. the score was completely inaccurate showing how lopsided that game was and how inept the offense was.

The games may look close but because of Orton's limitations they are still no closer winning them.

What Fox is doing is playing 80s basketball... where they dribble the ball for 20 seconds of the shot clock and then run their post play.

He is back from his banning and continues on like he never left except I didnt see Tebow's name in the post.

MacGruder
09-29-2011, 03:18 PM
Postal "again"? You are jumping the gun and just making stuff up...

Just save the drama please.. find some other scapegoat. That's what you are good at..

I was banned because people like you have nothing better to do. Talk football or move along. Are you talking football or talking about me?

broncocalijohn
09-29-2011, 03:23 PM
Postal "again"? You are jumping the gun and just making stuff up...

Just save the drama please.. find some other scapegoat. That's what you are good at..

I was banned because people like you have nothing better to do. Talk football or move along. Are you talking football or talking about me?

Sorry liar but you were talking more about Mason's 30 degree or whatever it is and not sticking to football. You got banned not by us, but by the Mods. Don't go blaming others for your actions as it was all on you and you got what you deserved. Next time might be a lifelong banning.

ColoradoDarin
09-29-2011, 03:24 PM
Sigh. Once again, every thread starts to take on the same inevitable structure we've seen again and again during The Tebow Era:

[somebody]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[somebody]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder]
[McGruder] (finally goes postal again and banned)

We need a thread that lists posters who need to be on everyone's iggy list. If someone signs up and starts replying to them, we sent them to that thread.....

MacGruder
09-29-2011, 03:26 PM
Living in the past are we? No other argument eh.. surprise surprise. Is talking about Masons not allowed? lol I guess i missed that rule.

I am not the one that brought up masons.. you just did.. in a sports thread.. so should you be banned? or does it just apply to me?

maher_tyler
09-29-2011, 03:27 PM
I wonder if the Bills' fans were saying the same thing last year with all their close losses. Now they have turned those close losses into wins and are currently 3-0. It does make a difference. You just might not see it this year. Last year we had close games and some major blowouts. I don't see that happening this year and first test is Sunday.

This game is going to be ugly. I have a feeling Rodgers will be watching the entire 4th quarter from the sidelines with many of there other starters. Which is when Orton pads his stats against 2nd stringers!

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 03:40 PM
This game is going to be ugly. I have a feeling Rodgers will be watching the entire 4th quarter from the sidelines with many of there other starters. Which is when Orton pads his stats against 2nd stringers!

if we can convert some third downs like we did in a few of the drives on Sunday we can keep it close with the way FoxBall works

by close I mean two TDs

Chris
09-29-2011, 03:43 PM
I think the goal is to get better every week. We're doing that... and it will translate to wins soon enough.

Quoydogs
09-29-2011, 04:50 PM
I think the goal is to get better every week. We're doing that... and it will translate to wins soon enough.

I think if you put a real QB in there whoever that is anybody we win games. No transitioning, no building we just start winning. Orton sucks and he is the reason we are losing these games. He drags the whole team down. Somebody needs to WTFU and bench Orton. We need to get that winning pride back in Denver. It's a sad day in Broncosville when a 10-6 season is kickass.

Archer81
09-29-2011, 04:53 PM
?


Of course you are back. Why not. Too much sanity and rationality around here lately.

...


:Broncos:

Tombstone RJ
09-29-2011, 04:55 PM
I think if you put a real QB in there whoever that is anybody we win games. No transitioning, no building we just start winning. Orton sucks and he is the reason we are losing these games. He drags the whole team down. Somebody needs to WTFU and bench Orton. We need to get that winning pride back in Denver. It's a sad day in Broncosville when a 10-6 season is kickass.

yep. Put Painter in these games and the Broncos win. Curtis fuggen Painter.

elsid13
09-29-2011, 05:29 PM
Damn that month went fast...

No ****

Agamemnon
09-29-2011, 06:48 PM
I think the goal is to get better every week. We're doing that... and it will translate to wins soon enough.

Our lowest offensive production so far this season was in the most recent game. How exactly are we improving again?

KipCorrington25
09-29-2011, 07:26 PM
Every week there is some "oh what if" with Orton, oh if he didn't drop the ball, oh if the pass wasn't tipped, oh if he just didn't funmble.

There's always something with that guy, he's a loser.