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TheReverend
09-29-2011, 09:35 AM
In the upstairs offices from within the stucco-covered concrete walls, there is just one option at quarterback: Win with Orton as the starter. Elway doesn't pretend to deny he and general manager Brian Xanders and Fox have never discussed the quarterback situation. They talk about their cornerbacks, receivers and linemen. Why wouldn't they talk about their quarterbacks?

"But this is John Fox's team," Elway said. "In my position, everyone has responsibilities, and I'm not going to interfere with John Fox and what he wants to do with this football team. If I can help with different ideas, I'm going to give those. But I don't want to be in there meddling."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19000691

Looks like the Duke of Denver getting a head start on Xanders and Fox with the CYA game. Subtlely supportive yet with a heavy "It's his fault!" aftertaste.

alkemical
09-29-2011, 09:35 AM
In before thread title change.

Eldorado
09-29-2011, 09:44 AM
He did try to trade Orton.

Kaylore
09-29-2011, 09:44 AM
"T"

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-qF6CbJo2vY/Si5aICuxr0I/AAAAAAAAFrI/lJv8cZvq9Tc/s400/Mr_T.jpg

jhns
09-29-2011, 09:44 AM
It is probably good that Elway distances himself from such obviously poor decisions. I know I have been turning on Fox because of them. I'm sure it won't be long before most fans do the same.

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 09:45 AM
Soooooooooooo the title is supposed to say "The Blame Game" I'll try to change it AGAIN

Gort
09-29-2011, 09:46 AM
"T"

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-qF6CbJo2vY/Si5aICuxr0I/AAAAAAAAFrI/lJv8cZvq9Tc/s400/Mr_T.jpg

he pities TheElusiveKyleOrton.

true story.

JDB7821
09-29-2011, 09:48 AM
The only reason he isn't meddling is because he knows John Fox's decision to stay with Orton will lead him to drafting Andrew Luck.

Chris
09-29-2011, 10:03 AM
http://thecheeky.com/wp-content/themes/cheeky/images/products/product-teabag.jpg

Dagmar
09-29-2011, 10:04 AM
The tide is shifting, Elway is now distancing himself from the issue whereas 3 weeks ago he was mocking us with tweets.

Woody's Mailbag: Broncos fans growing bored, apathetic

Paige: Kyle Orton's not the answer

3. If Tebow excels in his second audition, he's their quarterback for 2012. That way, the Broncos can use their first-round draft pick on a defensive tackle or cornerback.

4. Lastly, if the Broncos don't win with either Orton or Tebow, they can draft USC's Matt Barkley next year or Oklahoma's Landry Jones, if he comes out early. It's improbable the Broncos will stink enough to select Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck, the almost-certain No. 1 pick.


These arguments are no arguments made by people from Florida - bandwagoners - or people with "Tewbowners" as the few Orton supporters/irrational Tebow haters think, it is rational fact.

Orton and Quinn are gone after the year - plan for the future, this team is NOT making the playoffs.

DenverBroncosJM
09-29-2011, 10:15 AM
IF Tebow works out and we do not need a QB next year, imagine a defensive draft with a maybe a Center thrown in.

1. DT
2. CB
3. RB/Center

a couple of more studs on D we can be a top ten easily.

Mountain Bronco
09-29-2011, 10:23 AM
"I think we're getting close," Orton said. "We would have liked to have scored more than 17 points against Tennessee, but I think we've taken a lot of positives away. We're a lot better third-down football team. I think in the red zone, we're getting better. Minus the goal line stand, we were 2-for-2. So, we're improving. Now it's just getting the sense of urgency and getting everybody to do it right, and then I think you'll start seeing 35 points on the board rather than 23."

Hey, minus one loss, were are 1-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

23? Nope Kyle you scored 17. 23 would have been a win as it was against Cicny (24 actually).

The Joker
09-29-2011, 10:31 AM
Didn't we score 14?

Mountain Bronco
09-29-2011, 10:36 AM
correct 14, even better.

jhns
09-29-2011, 10:38 AM
Didn't we score 14?

You think Orton would really love his play so much if he actually lived in reality?

Mountain Bronco
09-29-2011, 10:42 AM
The 2 for 2 statement is like saying. Hey if I didn't suck, I would be good. Right?

Oh well, at least I have hunting season on the way.

DarkHorse30
09-29-2011, 10:49 AM
If Fox is actually making the decision, Orton's his guy. Fox's defense made it possible for a schlub like Delhomme to start for Carolina.

The BIG difference is that Denver fans are used to having a good QB. Carolina didn't know what one of those even looked like. Bronco fans can pressure Fox to start Tebow, because he won't blame the fans for shouting Tebow, he's too new in Denver. He'll fold if we push him.

bronco militia
09-29-2011, 10:52 AM
http://thecheeky.com/wp-content/themes/cheeky/images/products/product-teabag.jpg

Ha!

OABB
09-29-2011, 10:57 AM
im glad hes improving in the red zone and third downs. good for him. now if we can work on him literally not handing the game over by turnovers and generally not sucking the life and soul out of denver broncos football by killing any or all momentum he may be a decent qb. baby steps.

NUB
09-29-2011, 11:04 AM
The 2 for 2 statement is like saying. Hey if I didn't suck, I would be good. Right?

Was just thinking this.

It is inspiring, isn't it? I'm sure the team, particularly the defense, loves to hear those statements.

lookin' glass
09-29-2011, 11:06 AM
im glad hes improving in the red zone and third downs. good for him. now if we can work on him literally not handing the game over by turnovers and generally not sucking the life and soul out of denver broncos football by killing any or all momentum he may be a decent qb. baby steps.

He's just giving what the defense takes him.... er wait.?....

primetime714
09-29-2011, 11:12 AM
The problem is Fox is still under the false impression the team can win this year. Going 1-2 sealed this team's fate. Not because teams haven't climbed out of that type of hole before but because these were three of the more winnable games on the schedule. When the team goes into the bye 1-4 it will be interesting to see what happens. At this point though Fox can hang his hat on the fact that his team was in the game against 3 teams that likely won't make the playoffs. If the team can hang in there against GB and SD that point might be a little more valid, but even still the road points to a 1-4 record regardless.

v2micca
09-29-2011, 11:33 AM
I don't really see a big deal with Elway's comments and would not read too much into them. He's just affirming that there is a delegation of responsibilities. Hell, that is what we wanted here in Denver, a Front office that was independent of the Head Coach. Well, in those situations, the two doen't always see eye to eye. But the Front office is the ultimate authority on player acquisition, and the Head Coach is the ultimate authority on player management. We knew that this team was a two year project minimum to be competitive.

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 11:36 AM
I don't really see a big deal with Elway's comments and would not read too much into them. He's just affirming that there is a delegation of responsibilities. Hell, that is what we wanted here in Denver, a Front office that was independent of the Head Coach. Well, in those situations, the two doen't always see eye to eye. But the Front office is the ultimate authority on player acquisition, and the Head Coach is the ultimate authority on player management. We knew that this team was a two year project minimum to be competitive.

It's not a BIG deal, but it's very revealing.

Rusty nailed it right here:

The tide is shifting, Elway is now distancing himself from the issue whereas 3 weeks ago he was mocking us with tweets.

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 11:36 AM
the only positive that comes out of losses is to watch the same crew of squealing pigs stroke each other in every front page thread

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 11:37 AM
the only positive that comes out of losses is to watch the same crew of squealing pigs stroke each other in every front page thread

::)

It's not nearly as football savvy as "We're gonna straight boss the AFC West", but we can't all be as football smart as you, I guess.

jhns
09-29-2011, 11:39 AM
the only positive that comes out of losses is to watch the same crew of squealing pigs stroke each other in every front page thread

Yeah, it is much better than people like you crying about what people post and claimig guys like McDaniels and Orton are actually good for this franchise.

Archer81
09-29-2011, 11:49 AM
"I think we're getting close," Orton said. "We would have liked to have scored more than 17 points against Tennessee, but I think we've taken a lot of positives away. We're a lot better third-down football team. I think in the red zone, we're getting better. Minus the goal line stand, we were 2-for-2. So, we're improving. Now it's just getting the sense of urgency and getting everybody to do it right, and then I think you'll start seeing 35 points on the board rather than 23."

Hey, minus one loss, were are 1-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

23? Nope Kyle you scored 17. 23 would have been a win as it was against Cicny (24 actually).


Team speak. Best way to avoid aknowledging whose fault it really is.

:Broncos:

Archer81
09-29-2011, 11:50 AM
Yeah, it is much better than people like you crying about what people post and claimig guys like McDaniels and Orton are actually good for this franchise.


He is gone. Let it go.


:Broncos:

jhns
09-29-2011, 11:50 AM
He is gone. Let it go.


:Broncos:

Maybe next year.

55CrushEm
09-29-2011, 11:58 AM
It's not a BIG deal, but it's very revealing.

Rusty nailed it right here:

Hahaha!!! You said "rusty nail".

Just pointing that out for Blart

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 12:07 PM
Hahaha!!! You said "rusty nail".

Just pointing that out for Blart

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/BSnWr.gif

Durango
09-29-2011, 12:10 PM
It is probably good that Elway distances himself from such obviously poor decisions. I know I have been turning on Fox because of them. I'm sure it won't be long before most fans do the same.

What is your problem, man? Damn. After wailing bout McDaniels for a year and a half, now you're starting in on Fox. Fox is three games into a season he could barely prepare for with injuries out the gazoo and players largely not of his choosing and your railing for his removal now as well.

What's your end game, buddy? What do you want?

strafen
09-29-2011, 12:10 PM
the only positive that comes out of losses is to watch the same crew of squealing pigs stroke each other in every front page threadHow can you live that long with your head up your ass?
Unbelieveable!

ColoradoDarin
09-29-2011, 12:13 PM
What is your problem, man? Damn. After wailing bout McDaniels for a year and a half, now you're starting in on Fox. Fox is three games into a season he could barely prepare for with injuries out the gazoo and players largely not of his choosing and your railing for his removal now as well.

What's your end game, buddy? What do you want?

Trolls troll. It's what iggy is for (blah blah, something about Mods)

24champ
09-29-2011, 12:14 PM
The tide is shifting, Elway is now distancing himself from the issue whereas 3 weeks ago he was mocking us with tweets.


Exactly my thoughts when I read the OP.

jhns
09-29-2011, 12:16 PM
What is your problem, man? Damn. After wailing bout McDaniels for a year and a half, now you're starting in on Fox. Fox is three games into a season he could barely prepare for with injuries out the gazoo and players largely not of his choosing and your railing for his removal now as well.

What's your end game, buddy? What do you want?

The team is not well coached. They are making stupid mistakes and tons of penalties. He goes with another **** QB to make it 3/3 in his career. He doesn't even give the other QB a second thought, after that QB outproduced the starter by a lot in live games. He makes the worst call of the weekend, which cost us a game, by going for that fourth. His love of Orton has cost us two winnable games. You don't make it in this league when you give games away. The same thing applies to him that applied to McDaniels. This is the NFL, not a place for on the job training and making decisions that most high school coaches wouldn't screw up.

Basically, I'm still waiting to get a coach that is smarter than I am. We haven't had one since Shanahan. I haven't enjoyed the stupidity on display...

jhns
09-29-2011, 12:19 PM
Trolls troll. It's what iggy is for (blah blah, something about Mods)

And little girls can't handle their perfect little world being questioned. You girls act like everything I have said hasn't been proven correct with time...

mkporter
09-29-2011, 12:20 PM
I don't really see a big deal with Elway's comments and would not read too much into them. He's just affirming that there is a delegation of responsibilities. Hell, that is what we wanted here in Denver, a Front office that was independent of the Head Coach. Well, in those situations, the two doen't always see eye to eye. But the Front office is the ultimate authority on player acquisition, and the Head Coach is the ultimate authority on player management. We knew that this team was a two year project minimum to be competitive.

Kinda. But really, Elway is Fox's boss, and also Xanders' boss. Elway should not be relegated to input on player acquisition only. Elway's job is to make sure his employees are doing theirs.

Durango
09-29-2011, 12:30 PM
The team is not well coached. They are making stupid mistakes and tons of penalties. He goes with another **** QB to make it 3/3 in his career. He doesn't even give the other QB a second thought, after that QB outproduced the starter by a lot in live games. He makes the worst call of the weekend, which cost us a game, by going for that fourth. His love of Orton has cost us two winnable games. You don't make it in this league when you give games away. The same thing applies to him that applied to McDaniels. This is the NFL, not a place for on the job training and making decisions that most high school coaches wouldn't screw up.

Basically, I'm still waiting to get a coach that is smarter than I am. We haven't had one since Shanahan. I haven't enjoyed the stupidity on display...

So, you're going to wail and nitpick every day, every play, every game until this guy is gone, and a if the next guy isn't to your liking, you will nitpick and blubber until he's gone?

You understand the game so well, you feel you could do a better job than Fox and Elway? Really?

jhns
09-29-2011, 12:33 PM
So, you're going to wail and nitpick every day, every play, every game until this guy is gone, and a if the next guy isn't to your liking, you will nitpick and blubber until he's gone?

You understand the game so well, you feel you could do a better job than Fox and Elway? Really?

Who said anything about Elway?

Durango
09-29-2011, 12:43 PM
Who said anything about Elway?

Who do you want as coach? Instead of this constant, incessant, every game, every play, unending drum-beat of disapproval, tell us who you want.

Dennison. Kubiak, Les Miles, Stoops? Should Elway take the reigns? Bring back Reeves. Who is your guy? Who would've taken this roster on a shortened pre-season and led them to great victories every Sunday, or in one case, Monday? Who?

I'd like to see Tebow in some packages too. I couldn't stand McDaniels and think he set this franchise back three to five years, but damn, guy, you have to re-start somewhere,and that's where we are at the moment.

TheDave
09-29-2011, 12:46 PM
In the spirit of the title of the thread...

Broncos' Tim Tebow on "The Biggest Loser (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19004190)

So we have an offseason that consisted of an autobiography along with the required book tour, Several television appearances, Numerous commercials and endorsements, Celebrity Golf and other charity events.... Hmmm


Lets leave it at this... If Tim is on this team next year I hope we see a lot less of the above activities and a lot more work on his drops.

Sorry for the Tebow Jack,but I just can't get myself to start another thread... ;D

Dagmar
09-29-2011, 12:53 PM
Just because no one wants Orton isn't Tim's fault Dave. And the fact is that all you have left is to attack Tim because even you know you can't defend Kyle anymore. And this is literally all you have to attack him with. Sad.

Drek
09-29-2011, 12:54 PM
In the spirit of the title of the thread...

Broncos' Tim Tebow on "The Biggest Loser (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19004190)

So we have an offseason that consisted of an autobiography along with the required book tour, Several television appearances, Numerous commercials and endorsements, Celebrity Golf and other charity events.... Hmmm


Lets leave it at this... If Tim is on this team next year I hope we see a lot less of the above activities and a lot more work on his drops.

Sorry for the Tebow Jack,but I just can't get myself to start another thread... ;D

If what we saw in pre-season games with a 2nd string OL that doesn't belong anywhere near an NFL roster is what Tebow can do when he doesn't prepare in the off-season I'd love to see what the guy looks like given some real preparation.

Can a touchdown pass cure cancer?

TheDave
09-29-2011, 12:56 PM
Just because no one wants Orton isn't Tim's fault Dave. And the fact is that all you have left is to attack Tim because even you know you can't defend Kyle anymore. And this is literally all you have to attack him with. Sad.

Not sure how you took that as "support" for Orton, I just whish the guy behind him was more of a QB and less of a celebrity.

mkporter
09-29-2011, 12:57 PM
In the spirit of the title of the thread...

Broncos' Tim Tebow on "The Biggest Loser (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19004190)

So we have an offseason that consisted of an autobiography along with the required book tour, Several television appearances, Numerous commercials and endorsements, Celebrity Golf and other charity events.... Hmmm


Lets leave it at this... If Tim is on this team next year I hope we see a lot less of the above activities and a lot more work on his drops.

Sorry for the Tebow Jack,but I just can't get myself to start another thread... ;D

I'd bet dollars to donuts Tebow still put in more work than most if not all guys on the team, regardless of his other activities. The other guys were just golfing or playing video games, instead of doing a book tour.

jhns
09-29-2011, 12:57 PM
Who do you want as coach? Instead of this constant, incessant, every game, every play, unending drum-beat of disapproval, tell us who you want.

Dennison. Kubiak, Les Miles, Stoops? Should Elway take the reigns? Bring back Reeves. Who is your guy? Who would've taken this roster on a shortened pre-season and led them to great victories every Sunday, or in one case, Monday? Who?

I'd like to see Tebow in some packages too. I couldn't stand McDaniels and think he set this franchise back three to five years, but damn, guy, you have to re-start somewhere,and that's where we are at the moment.

So you feel we lost those two games because of our talent issues? If so, I don't agree. That will be a good excuse for some of the next few games...

I don't have a guy. The next guy that comes in here, and doesn't make horrible decisions, will be my guy.

Lets review his last game-blowing call, shall we? To fully understand that fourth down call, we need to first rewind the game a little. There we were, earlier in the game with a third and short. We run the ball and end with negative yards. A little while later, we are sitting on the goal line and run the ball. Guess what happened? Thats right! We were completely stuffed. Now fast forward to the fourth quarter. We are up by four in a defensive struggle. We end up with a first and goal from the two. We try a pass, which is thrown away. We run it twice in short yardage, only to be stuffed both times. Now, with a little momentum going our way, and facing a team that is extremely unlikely to get two scores after only getting two in over three quarters, we decide to go for it(horrible mistake number one). Knowing that we are 0/4 so far on short yardage running plays, they call a run up the middle(horrible mistake number two). Knowing that we can't run and have red zone struggles, the coach also decides to handicap himself down on the goal line by not playing his best red zone threat(horrible mistake number three). Guess what happened on this series that the coach thought was so important to score a TD on? Yup, the team was now 0/5 trying to run in short yardage situations.

Very amateur.

jhns
09-29-2011, 01:04 PM
In the spirit of the title of the thread...

Broncos' Tim Tebow on "The Biggest Loser (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19004190)

So we have an offseason that consisted of an autobiography along with the required book tour, Several television appearances, Numerous commercials and endorsements, Celebrity Golf and other charity events.... Hmmm


Lets leave it at this... If Tim is on this team next year I hope we see a lot less of the above activities and a lot more work on his drops.

Sorry for the Tebow Jack,but I just can't get myself to start another thread... ;D

You Ortonites have gone off the deep end. It is pretty obvious that you have nothing when you are trying to attack Tebow for not working hard enough... It is like you haven't been paying any attention over the past couple years as you claim to know something...

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 01:06 PM
I'd bet dollars to donuts Tebow still put in more work than most if not all guys on the team, regardless of his other activities. The other guys were just golfing or playing video games, instead of doing a book tour.

That's my feeling.

Play2win
09-29-2011, 01:53 PM
There is a lot of sloppy play going on everywhere in the entire NFL, because of the turmoil of this past off-season.

This is even more so true from teams with recent coaching changes. Overall, it is just going to be a sloppy season.

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 02:03 PM
::)

It's not nearly as football savvy as "We're gonna straight boss the AFC West", but we can't all be as football smart as you, I guess.

we're a game back....the Chargers barely squeaked out a win against the lowly Chiefs and the Raiders are a McFadden injury away from being...the Radiers again

BOSS

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 02:07 PM
Yeah, it is much better than people like you crying about what people post and claimig guys like McDaniels and Orton are actually good for this franchise.

You're one of the only people who talks about McDaniels regularly on this board

jhns
09-29-2011, 02:09 PM
You're one of the only people who talks about McDaniels regularly on this board

I am also one of the only people not trying to distance myself from my past opinions of him. I wouldn't want to talk about him either if I sucked him off for the past two years...

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 02:14 PM
OT:

I remember a time when we could post a thread like this and thoroughly discuss it as grey area instead of it becoming so polarizing and black and white.

Sigh. The wonders of losing. :(

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 02:21 PM
OT:

I remember a time when we could post a thread like this and thoroughly discuss it as grey area instead of it becoming so polarizing and black and white.

Sigh. The wonders of losing. :(

unfortunately I read it as an attack on the entire direction of our front office and how they will soon be tossing each other under the bus....which I disagree with

....did I read it wrong?

I think we've done a lot of positive to shift the direction of the franchise after the damage that had been done in the past few years....I don't agree with all of the decisions being made but I think we are on course and Elway is hanging back and letting Fox do his job

bendog
09-29-2011, 02:23 PM
Just because no one wants Orton isn't Tim's fault Dave. And the fact is that all you have left is to attack Tim because even you know you can't defend Kyle anymore. And this is literally all you have to attack him with. Sad.

"Tim"?

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 02:26 PM
I am also one of the only people not trying to distance myself from my past opinions of him. I wouldn't want to talk about him either if I sucked him off for the past two years...

who is distancing themselves from past opinions? I thought McDaniels did a pretty good job Year 1....he seemed to have a plan in place and knew what kind of a team he was building....he lost me in Year 2 during the draft with the Thomas and Tebow picks in round 1....it left me confused a bit, but I stayed positive....by the time he had lost the team, was caught taping and we were getting blown out at home I think even the most positive people knew it was time for him to go

jhns
09-29-2011, 02:28 PM
who is distancing themselves from past opinions? I thought McDaniels did a pretty good job Year 1....he seemed to have a plan in place and knew what kind of a team he was building....he lost me in Year 2 during the draft with the Thomas and Tebow picks in round 1....it left me confused a bit, but I stayed positive....by the time he had lost the team, was caught taping and we were getting blown out at home I think even the most positive people knew it was time for him to go

Then you were an idiot in year one along with most others. You continued being an idiot, and crying about/trolling everyone that was right. Good job!

Agamemnon
09-29-2011, 02:39 PM
we're a game back....the Chargers barely squeaked out a win against the lowly Chiefs and the Raiders are a McFadden injury away from being...the Radiers again

BOSS

::)

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 02:45 PM
Then you were an idiot in year one along with most others. You continued being an idiot, and crying about/trolling everyone that was right. Good job!


yup....because we went 8-8 and missed the playoffs by one game

what an awful season

Dagmar
09-29-2011, 02:46 PM
"Tim"?

Really??

Mr. Elway
09-29-2011, 02:46 PM
The team is not well coached. They are making stupid mistakes and tons of penalties. He goes with another **** QB to make it 3/3 in his career. He doesn't even give the other QB a second thought, after that QB outproduced the starter by a lot in live games. He makes the worst call of the weekend, which cost us a game, by going for that fourth. His love of Orton has cost us two winnable games. You don't make it in this league when you give games away. The same thing applies to him that applied to McDaniels. This is the NFL, not a place for on the job training and making decisions that most high school coaches wouldn't screw up.

Basically, I'm still waiting to get a coach that is smarter than I am. We haven't had one since Shanahan. I haven't enjoyed the stupidity on display...

But we are clearly improving on penalties, and considering that we have a new HC and a lot of rookies seeing playing time, I don't see anything disturbing in this category since week one, and only one penalty on the road against the Titans is about as good as you can ask for:

Penalties/Yards
15-131
7-69
1-15

To your second point, the team clearly tried to trade Orton, so obviously there were more than just second thoughts on the matter. But Tebow couldn't beat out two average-at-best QBs in training camp, so we're in a bad spot with QB. I'm all for starting Tebow, and certainly I think we should have him in on the goal line, but you are way overstating this.

We've kept the game close with teams that are obviously better than us right now. To me, that doesn't smack of bad coaching. I think it's still to early in the season to make a judgement, but the best gauge of how the coaching is going is whether or not we improve in all 3 phases and end up a better team by the end of the year.

Going for it on 4th and 1 in that situation is in no way a bad call. Are you saying Shanahan would never have done that? Don't you remember our goal line problems at the end of his tenure? What's bad is that we cannot convert that.

I am not entirely happy with the way things have gone, and losing the Titans game especially stung since we seemingly had the game in hand. But you are overstating the problem by a mile. Where did you expect we'd be by now?

jhns
09-29-2011, 02:50 PM
yup....because we went 8-8 and missed the playoffs by one game

what an awful season

See, you only prove you still don't understand what went on. We managed 8 wins with the healthiest team in the league after having 8 wins with one of the most injured teams. We did it with a coordinator that gave us a top ten defense right before getting fired. The fact that you couldn't see the talent being driven off says everything we need to know about your opinion.

Eldorado
09-29-2011, 02:54 PM
Going for it on 4th and 1 in that situation is in no way a bad call. Are you saying Shanahan would never have done that? Don't you remember our goal line problems at the end of his tenure? What's bad is that we cannot convert that.




Going for it on fourth and one, in that game, the circumstances being what they were was dumb.

Dagmar
09-29-2011, 02:56 PM
I bet The Rev is glad he started a McD thread :yawn:

Eldorado
09-29-2011, 03:02 PM
I bet The Rev is glad he started a McD thread :yawn:

It's the blame game. It's hard to argue that McD isn't the most culpable figure responsible for the current mess.

jhns
09-29-2011, 03:05 PM
But we are clearly improving on penalties, and considering that we have a new HC and a lot of rookies seeing playing time, I don't see anything disturbing in this category since week one, and only one penalty on the road against the Titans is about as good as you can ask for:

Penalties/Yards
15-131
7-69
1-15

To your second point, the team clearly tried to trade Orton, so obviously there were more than just second thoughts on the matter. But Tebow couldn't beat out two average-at-best QBs in training camp, so we're in a bad spot with QB. I'm all for starting Tebow, and certainly I think we should have him in on the goal line, but you are way overstating this.

We've kept the game close with teams that are obviously better than us right now. To me, that doesn't smack of bad coaching. I think it's still to early in the season to make a judgement, but the best gauge of how the coaching is going is whether or not we improve in all 3 phases and end up a better team by the end of the year.

Going for it on 4th and 1 in that situation is in no way a bad call. Are you saying Shanahan would never have done that? Don't you remember our goal line problems at the end of his tenure? What's bad is that we cannot convert that.

I am not entirely happy with the way things have gone, and losing the Titans game especially stung since we seemingly had the game in hand. But you are overstating the problem by a mile. Where did you expect we'd be by now?

No, Shanahan wouldn't have gone for that fourth. It is pretty insulting that you think he is that retarded. How do goal line problems from before prove anything with this situation? Those are the reason he wouldn't have been that stupid... You go for that in a shootout. You do not go for that in a defensive struggle. You do not run on fourth and short when your team is 0/4 on short yardage running plays and just got stuffed twice. This is pretty basic stuff. When it is the fourth and the other team hasn't gotten but two scores in over three quarters, you take that TD lead knowing that the best they can possibly do is tie the game after. You are claiming it wasn't a bad call as it was the decision that lost this team the game. It took away the little momentum we had and we lost... On top of all of this, he thought that TD was that important and didn't even care to use his best red zone weapon...

I'm not overstating anything. You think practice means more than live games. Fox and McDaniels agree with you. Hillis and his Madden cover are laughing at all of you. You see, his physical style doesn't look as good in todays soft practices either. The thing is, we had tape of him doing great things at RB. They didn't trust the tape and now he is outrushing everything we have while on the Browns... Tebow outproduced Orton by a LOT in live games. Orton has proven what a ****ty QB he is over and over again. Orton was named starter before camp and got all first team reps...

The penalties did improve and they aren't a big part of my evaluation anyways. I will be more concerned about those if there are a lot still happening at the end of the year and into year two.

I don't agree that talent is a good excuse for the losses. Even if you want to claim we are less talented, those teams still tried to give us games that we should have easily won. Talent will start to be considered a good excuse in the coming weeks.

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:09 PM
unfortunately I read it as an attack on the entire direction of our front office and how they will soon be tossing each other under the bus....which I disagree with

....did I read it wrong?

I think we've done a lot of positive to shift the direction of the franchise after the damage that had been done in the past few years....I don't agree with all of the decisions being made but I think we are on course and Elway is hanging back and letting Fox do his job

lol oh please.

Going from: "If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!"

To: "I'm not going to interfere with John Fox and what he wants to do with this football team."

Is absolutely a shift and not even a subtle one.

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:11 PM
I bet The Rev is glad he started a McD thread :yawn:

lol fml

At least the threads been made and will be easy to bump and examine should the wheels continue to fall off and we get a lot of public CYA.

Frankly I'm surprised John beat Xanders to the punch. That dude is a master of survival and shirking responsibility to the point of us not having any idea what he really does YEARS later.

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 03:12 PM
lol oh please.

Going from: "If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!"

To: "I'm not going to interfere with John Fox and what he wants to do with this football team."

Is absolutely a shift and not even a subtle one.

It's defending the coach.....then saying that he's not going to listen to the crybabies and boo-birds because he still believes in what his coach can do

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:15 PM
It's defending the coach.....then saying that he's not going to listen to the crybabies and boo-birds because he still believes in what his coach can do

http://i34.tinypic.com/5l3zty.png

At this point, I genuinely have to question your literacy.

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 03:16 PM
http://i34.tinypic.com/5l3zty.png

At this point, I genuinely have to question your literacy.

unfortunately, I find the Bert things funny...

you're a drama queen and nobody is going to be able to talk you off the ledge so its pointless even engaging in any sort of a discussion with you

jhns
09-29-2011, 03:19 PM
Losing a lot this year may be the best thing for Fox. It will let us draft a QB early and he will have to play that QB. There will be no way Orton is resigned at that point. Fox loves him some ****ty QB play. The QB decisions need to be taken out of his hands for his own good.

24champ
09-29-2011, 03:21 PM
http://i34.tinypic.com/5l3zty.png

At this point, I genuinely have to question your literacy.

Speaking of Bert, this a good Halloween costume or no?

http://www.costumekingdom.com/images/Product/medium/12286.jpg

ColoradoDarin
09-29-2011, 03:22 PM
In the spirit of the title of the thread...

Broncos' Tim Tebow on "The Biggest Loser (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19004190)

So we have an offseason that consisted of an autobiography along with the required book tour, Several television appearances, Numerous commercials and endorsements, Celebrity Golf and other charity events.... Hmmm


Lets leave it at this... If Tim is on this team next year I hope we see a lot less of the above activities and a lot more work on his drops.

Sorry for the Tebow Jack,but I just can't get myself to start another thread... ;D


Saints quarterback Drew Brees, Packers linebacker Clay Matthews, Hall of Fame running back Eric Dickerson, Falcons tight end Tony Gonzalez and Bills linebacker Shawne Merriman are the others who participate.


Dickerson??

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:24 PM
unfortunately, I find the Bert things funny...

you're a drama queen and nobody is going to be able to talk you off the ledge so its pointless even engaging in any sort of a discussion with you

No no, you're a poser who can't handle reality.

That's the truth of it.

I'm not on any ****ing ledge other than one that's upset over the mismanagement of my favorite football franchise and a staff and personnel that has downright slandered players for PR reasons and lost more games in a year than the Broncos used to in 2-3 seasons.

So why don't decide if you want to take your apathetic "I dont care if we lose" ass to some circle jerk thread with Popps or try addressing the ****ing post (a novel concept that you've NEVER been able to successfully achieve)?

Loser.

Eldorado
09-29-2011, 03:25 PM
Speaking of Bert, this a good Halloween costume or no?

http://www.costumekingdom.com/images/Product/medium/12286.jpg

No. That's a terrible Bert stare.

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:27 PM
Dickerson??

...yeah?

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:29 PM
No. That's a terrible Bert stare.

^ That. Bert smiling? BS.

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 03:33 PM
No no, you're a poser who can't handle reality.

That's the truth of it.

I'm not on any ****ing ledge other than one that's upset over the mismanagement of my favorite football franchise and a staff and personnel that has downright slandered players for PR reasons and lost more games in a year than the Broncos used to in 2-3 seasons.

So why don't decide if you want to take your apathetic "I dont care if we lose" ass to some circle jerk thread with Popps or try addressing the ****ing post (a novel concept that you've NEVER been able to successfully achieve)?

Loser.

Ahhh...it was only a matter of time until we got a lengthy, angry rant from Rev. It's always a cute, welcome sight for the Mane when this happens. You posted up a quote, interpreted it as you saw fit and then decided to attack someone who had a different spin on it.

You read the quote one way and I'll read it another...the fact that you think I'm wrong is not going to affect me one iota.

Your overconfidence in your own opinion is so amusing. You're a cartoon character of sorts. Kind of like the sad clown who thinks he should be working on Wall Street instead of parading around at a kid's birthday party twisting up animal balloons. The self-inflated image you portray on this message board is so great that I have to believe you do it on purpose.

If it means anything, I think you're funny...whether you are doing it on purpose or not.

Mr. Elway
09-29-2011, 03:36 PM
No, Shanahan wouldn't have gone for that fourth.

Please, you have no idea what he'd do. Plus we had two more chances after that to score and failed. Going into OT on the road, defense exhausted, having lost momentum is not a good way to win either. Fox tried to end the game then and there, knowing we'd get the ball back. It was a decent gamble that didn't work out and Orton's offense totally failed in the 4th after that.


I'm not overstating anything. You think practice means more than live games. Fox and McDaniels agree with you. Hillis and his Madden cover are laughing at all of you.

Lolwut? I never said that.

The penalties did improve and they aren't a big part of my evaluation anyways.

Glad you conceded my point, so I'll just point out that you DID in fact overstate something.

I don't agree that talent is a good excuse for the losses. Even if you want to claim we are less talented, those teams still tried to give us games that we should have easily won.

Again, did I mention talent anywhere in my post? I guess you're inventing arguments to try and win them. Unfortunately, saying we are not talent-deficient is not good argument even in Imaginationland.

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:39 PM
Ahhh...it was only a matter of time until we got a lengthy, angry rant from Rev. It's always a cute, welcome sight for the Mane when this happens. You posted up a quote, interpreted it as you saw fit and then decided to attack someone who had a different spin on it.

Ummm, not really.

Once again, I have to question your literacy.

This was your response:

the only positive that comes out of losses is to watch the same crew of squealing pigs stroke each other in every front page thread

So, yeah, go **** yourself kiddo. Oh and for the 10th time... not angry. Just speaking in terms someone so stupid would understand.

I'm still waiting on you to find one average football post that you've made, btw?

Popps
09-29-2011, 03:41 PM
the only positive that comes out of losses is to watch the same crew of squealing pigs stroke each other in every front page thread

Hilarious!

bronco militia
09-29-2011, 03:44 PM
I'd bet dollars to donuts Tebow still put in more work than most if not all guys on the team, regardless of his other activities. The other guys were just golfing or playing video games, instead of doing a book tour.

THATS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!

Ha!

jhns
09-29-2011, 03:44 PM
Where did you expect we'd be by now?

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but if this isn't a talent argument, what are you asking? If youre asking about wins, I didn't make predictions. I judge the team on the field.

Also, how can you claim you didn't say practice was more important as you claimed Tebow lost his job because of practice? A set of practices that never gave Tebow a fair shot after he completely outplayed Orton in live games...

You say I can't know if Shanny would have gone for it when it was you claiming to know what Shanahan would do. You can try to justify that fourth down all you want. Most high school coaches know how stupid it is to go for it in that situation. You and Fox are just proving how little you know. Even if you defend going for it, there is no way to defend his other calls on that play. He didn't use his best red zone weapon and did the one thing that wasn't working at all that game. There is no way to spin that into a good call...

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:44 PM
Hilarious!

...like ****ing clockwork! Ha!LOLROFL!

Maybe you two can go pound each other off on your Rams board?

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 03:46 PM
Post #56 is my response to the quote...

Also, neg repping and calling me a "stupid douchebag" tightly wraps up what a giant herb you are

Popps
09-29-2011, 03:49 PM
Gotta love neg-reps. First line of defense for the average 13 year old.

Anyway, stroke on y'all!

Punisher
09-29-2011, 03:50 PM
Pat Bowlen

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:50 PM
Post #56 is my response to the quote...

Also, neg repping and calling me a "stupid douchebag" tightly wraps up what a giant herb you are

Ohhhhhhhhh okay.

So you come into the thread and act like a child, but THEN when called out on it you decide to address the original post?

Classic. Good work. Really stays in line with your complaint. Ha!

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 03:57 PM
Anyway, stroke on y'all!

Gotta rush back to the Rams board?

Mr. Elway
09-29-2011, 04:06 PM
I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but if this isn't a talent argument, what are you asking? If youre asking about wins, I didn't make predictions. I judge the team on the field.

Your post was about coaching. You said we are badly coached because of the penalties, because we're not starting Orton (personnel decision not coaching but it's made by the HC so I'm not going to nitpick that) I think you went on to argue with other people about talent. I do think we have serious talent deficiencies though (QB, OL, RB, ILB, to name a few).

Also, how can you claim you didn't say practice was more important as you claimed Tebow lost his job because of practice? A set of practices that never gave Tebow a fair shot after he completely outplayed Orton in live games...

I don't think it's more important, but it can't be discounted either. There is no reason for Tebow not to make serious improvements in his footwork or reads in the offseason, but by all accounts he didn't do that. Here's a metaphor. You're in software, right? So let's say a software programmer has a true passion, talent and knack for making cool stuff. That's something a lot of programmers lack, and something to be coveted. Problem is the source code looks like crap and shows a lack of fundamentals and knowledge. You know that those programs are probably going to be brittle and insecure over time. You can't put this guy as lead on your project because it's going to end badly. So you challenge him to study hard and learn the fundamentals in order to properly leverage his talent. If he's unable to do that, what do you think? He's either unable or unwilling? Does he need more time, and if so, can we afford that? I don't know the answers, but in my mind the Tebow situation is thus far disappointing and obviously a big problem for the Broncos. For Fox as HC, this is not an easy thing to deal with, and may take some time to figure out.

You say I can't know if Shanny would have gone for it when it was you claiming to know what Shanahan would do. You can try to justify that fourth down all you want. Most high school coaches know how stupid it is to go for it in that situation. You and Fox are just proving how little you know.

The difference is you are making assertions, and I am not. I'm just saying your blanket assertions might be wrong - i.e. that John Fox knows less than high school coaches. I gave my reasons why I don't think the 4th down call was bad. Plenty of games where that call goes the other way have ended in an OT loss, especially on the road.

crush17
09-29-2011, 04:31 PM
Jhns and The Rev stinking up the joint, whats new? You two are tools of an otherworldly level.

errand
09-29-2011, 04:56 PM
If Fox is actually making the decision, Orton's his guy. Fox's defense made it possible for a schlub like Delhomme to start for Carolina.

The BIG difference is that Denver fans are used to having a good QB. Carolina didn't know what one of those even looked like. Bronco fans can pressure Fox to start Tebow, because he won't blame the fans for shouting Tebow, he's too new in Denver. He'll fold if we push him.

No, as Broncos fans we're spoiled by Elway's greatness...

We expect every other clown that came around to become the next John Elway....then we go an argue with Raider fans how rare a talent like John was.

Well if he was such a rare talent (he was), then why does virtually every Bronco fan think that Griese, Cutler, Jake, or Tebow is ever gonna be as good? Hell we've even had clowns on here talking up David Garrard, Mike Mcmahon, Jarious Jackson and other losers like they could do something better than what we've had since John hung them up.

as for the coach....

If Fox could win with Delhomme, what does that actually say about his coaching ability...

Elway gets alot of credit for winning games with mediocre players and a few scrubs taken off the human rummage sale rack....that was a testimony to his ability to raise the level of those around him.

Those that pine for Tebow use his 3 game audition as a testament of his greatness....how in the pre-season he played better than our starter all the while playing with scrubs....

So if Tebow winning with scrubs is a testimony of his greatness...then wouldn't it be a testimony of John Fox's abilities as a coach if he was able to almost win a SB with Jake Delhomme as his QB?

John fox is old school...he wins with a solid running game and a very good defense. It's only week 3 in season one AM (after McDaniels)....

Please...a little patience people...We haven't sniffed the playoffs since '05...what is so bad in waiting another year before you start bitching about the coach?

mkporter
09-29-2011, 04:57 PM
THATS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!

Ha!

I love the "That's Racist!" bit as much as anyone else here, but I don't exactly see it here. Help me out:

Is it:
-Tebow is white so he works hard.
-The other players are black so they play video games and golf?

Or is it
-The white players golf
-The black players play video games

errand
09-29-2011, 05:10 PM
im glad hes improving in the red zone and third downs. good for him. now if we can work on him literally not handing the game over by turnovers and generally not sucking the life and soul out of denver broncos football by killing any or all momentum he may be a decent qb. baby steps.

Orton has uncharacteristically turned the ball over more than he has in past...if he throws fewer than 10 picks and keeps his fumbles under 5, we should be competitive...if he's leading the league in INT's like the guy he replaced 2 years ago, then we are in deep doo-doo.

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 05:16 PM
Jhns and The Rev stinking up the joint, whats new? You two are tools of an otherworldly level.

Another excellent addition. Thank god you're around to keep the quality of the Mane's football discussion up, eh?

errand
09-29-2011, 05:21 PM
Very amateur.

...of course you have the benefit of hindsight. you didn't know anymore than I did we'd get stuffed on that play....it happens sometimes.

i'm more concerned how the titans moved the ball 99 and 1/2 yards to score the go ahead points......

every week mediocre players for opposing teams have career games against us.....

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 05:24 PM
...of course you have the benefit of hindsight. you didn't know anymore than I did we'd get stuffed on that play....it happens sometimes.

i'm more concerned how the titans moved the ball 99 and 1/2 yards to score the go ahead points......

every week mediocre players for opposing teams have career games against us.....

VERY big concern for me as well (my primary concern in fact... well... after QB)

Especially now that we're about to go on the road to a quality opponent.

At the very least Denver should be able to move the ball against GB

errand
09-29-2011, 05:30 PM
Hillis and his Madden cover are laughing at all of you. You see, his physical style doesn't look as good in todays soft practices either. The thing is, we had tape of him doing great things at RB. They didn't trust the tape and now he is outrushing everything we have while on the Browns....

Willis MacGahee is the NFL's 20th ranked rusher.....Hillis is at #22.

Madden cover curse lives on.....

jhns
09-29-2011, 05:33 PM
...of course you have the benefit of hindsight. you didn't know anymore than I did we'd get stuffed on that play....it happens sometimes.

i'm more concerned how the titans moved the ball 99 and 1/2 yards to score the go ahead points......

every week mediocre players for opposing teams have career games against us.....

I facepalmed the second I saw they were going for it.

jhns
09-29-2011, 05:35 PM
Willis MacGahee is the NFL's 20th ranked rusher.....Hillis is at #22.

Madden cover curse lives on.....

Three games with Hillis out sick for one...

errand
09-29-2011, 05:38 PM
Three games with Hillis out sick for one...

What? ....his vagina hurt?

Illness and injuries are part of the curse dude...

jhns
09-29-2011, 05:42 PM
What? ....his vagina hurt?

Illness and injuries are part of the curse dude...

That sucks.

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 05:54 PM
Oh jesus christ.

Rock Chalk
09-29-2011, 06:12 PM
I blame Rev. **** since he showed up we have sucked epically. **** you Rev :)

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 06:18 PM
I blame Rev. **** since he showed up we have sucked epically. **** you Rev :)

False! I brought the best season the Broncos have seen since '98

:)

ColoradoDarin
09-29-2011, 07:58 PM
...yeah?

He's been retired for some time, granted he's a HoFer, but the rest of them are current players - though what is Merriman going to give for advice, which nettles are better than others? how to beat a piss test? how to suck once the roids wear off?

I might have to DVR it for the fun.

ColoradoDarin
09-29-2011, 08:03 PM
No, Shanahan wouldn't have gone for that fourth.

No Shanahan would never go for something that risky, like when he went for 2 instead of the XP to tie against the Chargers in the Hochuli game. Wait....

SoCalBronco
09-29-2011, 08:08 PM
Hopefully after the season Elway accepts a "promotion" to VP for Marketing and DeCosta is brought in.

vancejohnson82
09-29-2011, 08:10 PM
No Shanahan would never go for something that risky, like when he went for 2 instead of the XP to tie against the Chargers in the Hochuli game. Wait....

best game I have ever been to

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 08:13 PM
He's been retired for some time, granted he's a HoFer, but the rest of them are current players - though what is Merriman going to give for advice, which nettles are better than others? how to beat a piss test? how to suck once the roids wear off?

I might have to DVR it for the fun.

Biggest loser is always very age diverse. I'm just failing to see what your point is? Dickerson is a HUGE name and identifiable to their primary aged demographic

TheReverend
09-29-2011, 08:13 PM
No Shanahan would never go for something that risky, like when he went for 2 instead of the XP to tie against the Chargers in the Hochuli game. Wait....

Context was totally the same too.

Wait.....

gyldenlove
09-29-2011, 08:19 PM
I blame Jesus - he always gets thanked by people who win, so now I am blaming him for the losses.

jhns
09-29-2011, 09:24 PM
No Shanahan would never go for something that risky, like when he went for 2 instead of the XP to tie against the Chargers in the Hochuli game. Wait....

I'm just going to lay this out there. It isn't my fault you don't understand football.

Agamemnon
09-29-2011, 09:28 PM
No Shanahan would never go for something that risky, like when he went for 2 instead of the XP to tie against the Chargers in the Hochuli game. Wait....

Umm...those two situations are alike how?

mkporter
09-29-2011, 10:32 PM
...of course you have the benefit of hindsight. you didn't know anymore than I did we'd get stuffed on that play....it happens sometimes.

i'm more concerned how the titans moved the ball 99 and 1/2 yards to score the go ahead points......

every week mediocre players for opposing teams have career games against us.....

They didn't. They only made it 30 yards or so. They scored on the following possession.

Dagmar
09-29-2011, 10:39 PM
Hopefully after the season Elway accepts a "promotion" to VP for Marketing and DeCosta is brought in.

^5 ^5 ^5 ^5

24champ
09-30-2011, 01:30 AM
Hopefully after the season Elway accepts a "promotion" to VP for Marketing and DeCosta is brought in.

This is me if DeCosta replaces Xanders...

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b460/gifpro95/ipphz7.gif

TheReverend
09-30-2011, 08:50 AM
This is me if DeCosta replaces Xanders...

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b460/gifpro95/ipphz7.gif

You shrunk, lost weight and got a major tan, bro.

PS. I'd be the cookie monster-esque mascot in the background

Kaylore
09-30-2011, 09:42 AM
You shrunk, lost weight and got a major tan, bro.

PS. I'd be the cookie monster-esque mascot in the background

Damnit! I was gonna call dibs on that guy...

mkporter
09-30-2011, 09:48 AM
You shrunk, lost weight and got a major tan, bro.

PS. I'd be the cookie monster-esque mascot in the background

That's only because he's getting grinded on by that chick makin' copies..