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Quoydogs
09-27-2011, 03:51 PM
I keep hearing that Orton gives us our best chance to win. So my question is who takes the fall for this wen the season is over. Obviously somebody didn't do there homework. Orton is on his way to lead us to yet another losing season.

There should have been plenty of tape that showed this. So who gets canned for it ?

Popps
09-27-2011, 03:52 PM
Obviously somebody didn't do there homework.

Obviously.

Taco John
09-27-2011, 03:53 PM
McCoy (OC) and Gase (QB coach) are probably the easiest scapegoats right now. They're holdovers from the McDaniels era.

vancejohnson82
09-27-2011, 03:54 PM
@Popps ----- hahahaha


Fox takes the fall at the end....its up to the coach to put the team in a position to win. That goes for the personnel decisions, roster shuffles, playcalling, team mentality, etc....

UberBroncoMan
09-27-2011, 03:55 PM
McCoy and Gase are probably the easiest scapegoats right now. They're holdovers from the McDaniels era.

Technically McCoy isn't much of a holdover though. Had he never come here he probably would have still been in Carolina and Fox would have brought him along.

ColoradoDarin
09-27-2011, 03:55 PM
McCoy (OC) and Gase (QB coach) are probably the easiest scapegoats right now. They're holdovers from the McDaniels era.

This.

spdirty
09-27-2011, 03:56 PM
Nobody. New coach, new FO, new leadership which inherited a disaster. This season they get a mulligan. I don't think, because of what was done, scoreboard results should be expected from this team until 2013.

Taco John
09-27-2011, 03:58 PM
Technically McCoy isn't much of a holdover though. Had he never come here he probably would have still been in Carolina and Fox would have brought him along.

I understand. But practically speaking, if you're looking for sacrificial lambs to feed the blood lust of an angry fan base so you can sell tickets the next season, those two would seem to me to be the closest turkeys to the chopping block.

I think Gase is in trouble either way. I think Elway is going to want to draft a QB with a high pick, and I have a hard time believing that he's looking at Gase to develop that pick.

Quoydogs
09-27-2011, 04:01 PM
Nobody. New coach, new FO, new leadership which inherited a disaster. This season they get a mulligan. I don't think, because of what was done, scoreboard results should be expected from this team until 2013.

Yes but don't you think as head coach or GM that you should have known that Orton is a big ol' pile of suck ? I mean they were wanting to trade him at the start of the season so if they knew Tebow was not going to work out then you think they should have had a plan B or at least be working on one now.

Blueflame
09-27-2011, 04:04 PM
@Popps ----- hahahaha


Fox takes the fall at the end....its up to the coach to put the team in a position to win. That goes for the personnel decisions, roster shuffles, playcalling, team mentality, etc....

I wouldn't expect to see Fox fired... or even on the hot seat after only one season. I think Bowlen and the front office knew exactly how much work this team needed when Fox was hired... and that it's going to take "some" time to undo the damage McDaniels left here.

spdirty
09-27-2011, 04:11 PM
Yes but don't you think as head coach or GM that you should have known that Orton is a big ol' pile of suck ? I mean they were wanting to trade him at the start of the season so if they knew Tebow was not going to work out then you think they should have had a plan B or at least be working on one now.

They are working on one right now. Plan B just isn't in the NFL yet.

I don't know yet if Orton is the best QB on the roster right now. Remember the timeline before calling everyone idiots. They were set to roll head first with Tebow this year come hell or high water. Then the trade stalled. Then they saw Orton at practice, along with Tebow. Orton blew Tebow out of the water so bad in practice that, within 1 week, they could not justify trading Orton to the players. Then we get to see Ortons performance in the clutch. And here we are.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 04:11 PM
Kill them all.

spdirty
09-27-2011, 04:17 PM
I wouldn't expect to see Fox fired... or even on the hot seat after only one season. I think Bowlen and the front office knew exactly how much work this team needed when Fox was hired... and that it's going to take "some" time to undo the damage McDaniels left here.

Yep. Given the circumstances you are not thinking clearly if you don't think everyone gets a mulligan for what happens this year.

Maybe the QB coach after the season if you aren't happy with Tebow and Quinns development but, whatever. That isn't really scapegoating or making heads roll more than making small adjustments to the coaching staff.

oubronco
09-27-2011, 04:27 PM
Noone they will get a mulligan

elsid13
09-27-2011, 04:39 PM
I expect that we will see changes on the offense side of things.

vancejohnson82
09-27-2011, 04:48 PM
I wouldn't expect to see Fox fired... or even on the hot seat after only one season. I think Bowlen and the front office knew exactly how much work this team needed when Fox was hired... and that it's going to take "some" time to undo the damage McDaniels left here.

I'm not going to say that he should be on the hot seat or be fired...but I am saying that he doesnt just get a pass, especially since we've been in all of these games so far, and the playcalling looks stale....

not that he's the biggest problem with the team, but he definitely hasn't been an ace-in-the-hole by any stretch of hte imagination

we are a few weeks in and I don't know how the players feel about him, but he is almost less exciting of a head coach than what I expected....which is difficult because I pretty much expected a mannequin using a vibrating football field to be calling our plays this year

cutthemdown
09-27-2011, 04:51 PM
Fox won't get fired even if we lost 14 games this yr. If anything Elway planning on firing Xandars and some asst offensive coaches.

DBroncos4life
09-27-2011, 04:55 PM
McCoy, Xanders, and Ellis are tops on my list in no order. I really don't mind McCoy that much but I would really love to see us keep Tebow and bring in Urban Myer in as a coach as well. Kind of like Moore was with Indy. I know it won't happen but one can dream.

Inkana7
09-27-2011, 06:58 PM
No one will get fired.

DarkHorse30
09-27-2011, 07:34 PM
So my question is who takes the fall .....?

We do.

Again.

enjolras
09-27-2011, 07:36 PM
Why does anyone have to take any fall? Who exactly was under the impression that this season was going to be anything but a rebuilding one?

SimonFletcher73
09-27-2011, 07:39 PM
The coaches must feel safe. Otherwise they might be trying to win games.

DBroncos4life
09-27-2011, 07:41 PM
Why does anyone have to take any fall? Who exactly was under the impression that this season was going to be anything but a rebuilding one?

Well I feel that Xanders and Joe Ellis should be fired just because.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 08:09 PM
Why does anyone have to take any fall? Who exactly was under the impression that this season was going to be anything but a rebuilding one?

I guess I'm just waiting on the rebuilding part?

...Can we get started on that sometime soon?

sisterhellfyre
09-27-2011, 08:51 PM
The coaches must feel safe. Otherwise they might be trying to win games.

Just trying to win the mother****ing game?

Heh.

HAT
09-27-2011, 08:59 PM
For being a game out of first place after losing 2 games by a FG with a laundry list of injuries?

Probably nobody.

SoCalBronco
09-27-2011, 09:14 PM
I have a problem with blaming Gase. He's a WR coach by trade, that's his deal. He got pigeonholed into something that's not his specialty (QBs) and quite frankly has little experience at, just so Fox could get his guy (Tolbert I think) at WR coach.

snowspot66
09-27-2011, 09:20 PM
We put one of the worst defenses in league history onto the field last year (sadly that is not an exaggeration to make a point) and one of the worst running attacks in franchise history. We are actually much improved (through three games). Nobody will be blamed for anything. It takes time to raise the Titanic from the sea floor.

vancejohnson82
09-27-2011, 09:26 PM
We put one of the worst defenses in league history onto the field last year (sadly that is not an exaggeration to make a point) and one of the worst running attacks in franchise history. We are actually much improved (through three games). Nobody will be blamed for anything. It takes time to raise the Titanic from the sea floor.

I agree with this....there have been some good things to watch this year

defense is playing better (for now), commitment to the run is there (except against Oakland), we've been able to play hte field position game on ST and even scored a TD and every game has been within reach

plus SD looks vulnerable....although Oakland may be the team to beat

DBroncos4life
09-27-2011, 09:33 PM
We put one of the worst defenses in league history onto the field last year (sadly that is not an exaggeration to make a point) and one of the worst running attacks in franchise history. We are actually much improved (through three games). Nobody will be blamed for anything. It takes time to raise the Titanic from the sea floor.

It's not the coaching staff that is the problem. Our damn FO is. For the last few years its the same PR nightmare and it starts with the two hold overs from the last two staffs.

NFLBRONCO
09-27-2011, 09:42 PM
Last thing we need is change coaching staffs AGAIN. FO needs a major coup to turn us around.

pricejj
09-27-2011, 09:49 PM
Technically McCoy isn't much of a holdover though. Had he never come here he probably would have still been in Carolina and Fox would have brought him along.

McCoy is using Mcdaniels offense...which doesn't work unless you have Tom Brady and cheat to win Superbowls.

Rolandftw
09-27-2011, 09:50 PM
This team can't keep firing head coaches, or it builds a Raider like reputation where no one would ever want to coach here. We're paying three coaches this season; I don't think Bowlen wants to do the same next year, no matter how senile he has gotten.

It's a 3 year plan, so they deserve those three years and then a move can be made. Judging a young team in year one of a rebuild, with a shortened training camp is insane.

Taco John
09-27-2011, 09:54 PM
McCoy is using Mcdaniels offense...which doesn't work unless you have Tom Brady and cheat to win Superbowls.

Yeah, but McDaniels was apparently installing the Tebow offense...which doesn't work unless you have Tebow.

pricejj
09-27-2011, 09:57 PM
I guess I'm just waiting on the rebuilding part?

...Can we get started on that sometime soon?

+ googol plex

pricejj
09-27-2011, 10:00 PM
Yeah, but McDaniels was apparently installing the Tebow offense...which doesn't work unless you have Tebow.

...why you don't start your 1st round draft pick QB after going 3-9 will always baffle me.

Que
09-27-2011, 10:44 PM
No one gets fired. But Grimma Ellis and Xanders should be toast immediately. Giving them a pass is criminal. They were and are part of the problem. They helped put us in this mess just as much as McD did.

Taco John
09-27-2011, 11:08 PM
I'm giving Xanders the benefit of a doubt. I think he's probably a good fit for how the Broncos current organization is constructed and operates.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-27-2011, 11:13 PM
I'm giving Xanders the benefit of a doubt. I think he's probably a good fit for how the Broncos current organization is constructed and operates.

That's a ringing endorsement.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-27-2011, 11:18 PM
http://www.dlcache.indiatimes.com/imageserve/0eIubVE2SU2OQ/x350.jpg

This is the face I would make if I was watching the introductory press conference for the guy who will eventually fire me.

24champ
09-27-2011, 11:58 PM
Fox won't get fired even if we lost 14 games this yr. If anything Elway planning on firing Xandars and some asst offensive coaches.

Ellis won't let Xanders get canned. He's survived this long for a reason...


EDIT: On your point about Fox not getting canned if he lost 14 games. I agree, although he will be on a very short leash the following season. Going 4-28 in 2 seasons will put him under a microscope and the fans will start questioning this "rebuild".

jhns
09-28-2011, 06:08 AM
I doubt anyone gets fired. They gave McDaniels more than a year... I could see a change at coordinator but it won't be a scapegoat. We have had a pretty bad offense for a few years now.

It would be great if they got rid of Xanders and Ellis.

ppablo
09-28-2011, 06:45 AM
I agree that no one is getting fired... we could only wish that orton would be fired already

WolfpackGuy
09-28-2011, 06:49 AM
They already canned the idiot who thought it was a good idea to give Bore-ton a 9 million dollar extension.

I also still can't believe he placed a 1st round tender on Bore-ton.

Like THAT was going to happen.

LRtagger
09-28-2011, 06:57 AM
McCoy, Xanders, and Ellis are tops on my list in no order. I really don't mind McCoy that much but I would really love to see us keep Tebow and bring in Urban Myer in as a coach as well. Kind of like Moore was with Indy. I know it won't happen but one can dream.

No thanks. Urban Meyer is the reason Tebow isnt ready for the NFL now. His system wont work when the other team has better players than he does.

BigPlayShay
09-28-2011, 07:19 AM
Continuity leads to success in this league. Hopefully the FO and Fox understand that and no rash decisions are made after year 1 of a rebuild.

bendog
09-28-2011, 07:32 AM
Why does anyone take a fall? In case you haven't noticed, the team sucks. McDouche is gone. It's rebuild time.

DrFate
09-28-2011, 07:35 AM
I have a hard time believing that he's looking at Gase to develop that pick.

That's an interesting question - who would Elway trust to come in and groom the QBotF?

bendog
09-28-2011, 07:49 AM
That's an interesting question - who would Elway trust to come in and groom the QBotF?

He only had one year as a qb coach, and he didn't play college ball. Not dissing the guy, but off the top of my head, I can't recall one.

Ambiguous
09-28-2011, 08:11 AM
Obviously.

Win.

TonyR
09-28-2011, 08:18 AM
They already canned the idiot who thought it was a good idea to give Bore-ton a 9 million dollar extension.

You seriously think McDaniels made that decision all by himself? You don't think some combination of Ellis/Xanders/Bowlen had to sign off on that?

Taco John
09-28-2011, 09:18 AM
That's a ringing endorsement.

I can't say that I could give Xanders a ringing endorsement. About the best thing that I can say about the guy is that he was a Shanahan hiring, which at least gives him the benefit of a doubt for me - especially where the end of Shanahan's tenure as GM is concerned when I thought the front office was hitting a fresh stride and putting the franchise back on the right rail. But as far as Xanders goes, I tried to put together a list back in January of the reasons I thought he should be canned, and I wasn't able to come up with a lot. (It would appear that Elway came to the same conclusion.) From everything I've heard, the guy works with a mandate and by all accounts he does a good job fulfilling whatever mandate he's been given.

I don't believe the guy was pushing to get Jay out of town. I don't think the guy was trying to get Cassel into the franchise. I don't think the guy was hot to make Orton our team's focal point. I don't think the guy was pushing McDaniels to get rid of Hillis. I don't think the guy was demanding that we trade away a first round pick for Alphonso Smith. I don't think the guy was demanding that we abandon Alphonso Smith after one year of "development." He might have been part of the crew that brought McDaniels in, but ultimately, that was Bowlen's decision - don't you think? Personally, I imagine that Xanders saw the way the wind was blowing on that decision and decided that it would be better to fly a kite in that wind than try to try and blow against it.

I'm not here to necessarily defend the guy, but when I get down to it, I have a hard time pinning anything on him. The whole meme of him being the guy who calls the pizza in - I think that greatly simplifies what his job is, but there's probably some underlying truth to it. I think he probably gets told in a meeting that he participates in that "X is what the franchise wants, with Y being the fallback" and then he goes out and executes X to the best of his ability, and goes for Y should X fail.

For me, I see Xanders a lot like any of us with the distinction that he's actually doing the stuff. He loves football. Can't get enough of it. Loves to talk about it. Loves to watch it. Loves to evaluate players. Loves to follow the sport. Loves to look at every angle and scenario. Loves the number game of it all. He's SoCalBronco, except he's actually found his way into the inner circle and is actually doing it.

I tried to find a reason not to like the guy when the franchise was making the transition away from Josh to John, and the more I dug into the guy, the more I found reasons to give him the benefit of a doubt - and even start to like him.

DrFate
09-28-2011, 10:00 AM
He only had one year as a qb coach, and he didn't play college ball. Not dissing the guy, but off the top of my head, I can't recall one.

I don't understand what you are trying to say...

I was asking if anyone had an idea who Elway might want to mentor a young QB..

24champ
09-28-2011, 10:28 AM
. About the best thing that I can say about the guy is that he was a Shanahan hiring, which at least gives him the benefit of a doubt for me - especially where the end of Shanahan's tenure as GM is concerned when I thought the front office was hitting a fresh stride and putting the franchise back on the right rail.

Correction, he was a Ellis hiring. Not Shanahan hiring. Brought in strictly to manage contracts and cap space.

TonyR
09-28-2011, 10:45 AM
He might have been part of the crew that brought McDaniels in, but ultimately, that was Bowlen's decision - don't you think?

Curious whether you (or anyone) thinks "Bowlen" actually means Bowlen or if "Bowlen" means Ellis? Or perhaps Bowlen/Ellis? Or something else?

strafen
09-28-2011, 10:53 AM
I can't say that I could give Xanders a ringing endorsement. About the best thing that I can say about the guy is that he was a Shanahan hiring, which at least gives him the benefit of a doubt for me - especially where the end of Shanahan's tenure as GM is concerned when I thought the front office was hitting a fresh stride and putting the franchise back on the right rail. But as far as Xanders goes, I tried to put together a list back in January of the reasons I thought he should be canned, and I wasn't able to come up with a lot. (It would appear that Elway came to the same conclusion.) From everything I've heard, the guy works with a mandate and by all accounts he does a good job fulfilling whatever mandate he's been given.

I don't believe the guy was pushing to get Jay out of town. I don't think the guy was trying to get Cassel into the franchise. I don't think the guy was hot to make Orton our team's focal point. I don't think the guy was pushing McDaniels to get rid of Hillis. I don't think the guy was demanding that we trade away a first round pick for Alphonso Smith. I don't think the guy was demanding that we abandon Alphonso Smith after one year of "development." He might have been part of the crew that brought McDaniels in, but ultimately, that was Bowlen's decision - don't you think? Personally, I imagine that Xanders saw the way the wind was blowing on that decision and decided that it would be better to fly a kite in that wind than try to try and blow against it.

I'm not here to necessarily defend the guy, but when I get down to it, I have a hard time pinning anything on him. The whole meme of him being the guy who calls the pizza in - I think that greatly simplifies what his job is, but there's probably some underlying truth to it. I think he probably gets told in a meeting that he participates in that "X is what the franchise wants, with Y being the fallback" and then he goes out and executes X to the best of his ability, and goes for Y should X fail.

For me, I see Xanders a lot like any of us with the distinction that he's actually doing the stuff. He loves football. Can't get enough of it. Loves to talk about it. Loves to watch it. Loves to evaluate players. Loves to follow the sport. Loves to look at every angle and scenario. Loves the number game of it all. He's SoCalBronco, except he's actually found his way into the inner circle and is actually doing it.

I tried to find a reason not to like the guy when the franchise was making the transition away from Josh to John, and the more I dug into the guy, the more I found reasons to give him the benefit of a doubt - and even start to like him.You're leaving an important piece of information about Xanders.
Xanders forte is his ability to crunch numbers in favor of the team's pocket book.
That's what he does. He's good at negotiating contracts and putting together figures that impact the franchise's bottom line.
He's a numbers guy.
He's not your prototypical GM ala Pioli or Ferguson that goes out evaluate talents and make the bold move that may get the franchise over the top. He's not going out to get you the missing piece the team may need at a given time...

bronco militia
09-28-2011, 11:03 AM
X is probably missing the most important trait needed in this business: a huge Ego. I get the impression that he gets run over when he's in the room with just the big dogs.

"Extra cheese again, Mr. elway?"

bendog
09-28-2011, 11:28 AM
I think its pretty clear that Elway intends to eventually exercise overall personnel control. He's not a dictator type, and the coach always has to have input, but I think he sees his role as a George Young type GM. X has the title but in reality he's the contract/cap guy.

With Elway it's probably, "Another Dewers, Mr. Elway."

alkemical
09-28-2011, 11:47 AM
X is probably missing the most important trait needed in this business: a huge Ego. I get the impression that he gets run over when he's in the room with just the big dogs.

"Extra cheese again, Mr. elway?"

That's probably fair.

pricejj
09-28-2011, 12:10 PM
Am willing to give Elway, Fox, Xanders at least one more year.

McCoy is getting on my nerves for sticking to Mc**** playbook of fail.

McCoy is the reason Tebow has not seen the field. McCoy is the one who refuses to integrate Tebow into the system. McCoy is the one who keeps calling draw plays and screen passes on 3rd and 8.

Inkana7
09-28-2011, 12:12 PM
Am willing to give Elway, Fox, Xanders at least one more year.

McCoy is getting on my nerves for sticking to Mc**** playbook of fail.

McCoy is the reason Tebow has not seen the field. McCoy is the one who refuses to integrate Tebow into the system. McCoy is the one who keeps calling draw plays and screen passes on 3rd and 8.

Link?

pricejj
09-28-2011, 12:22 PM
Link?

McCoy is the offensive coordinator and calls all the plays. Last year, when Tebow was finally "allowed" to play, after the team went 3-10. McCoy dumbed down the playbook to something he thought Tebow could handle, "The Tebow Offense". Orton is not, and has never been more accurate than Tebow, yet we are supposed to believe Orton gives us "the best chance to win". Fox said, Orton knows the plays better than the offensive coaches. It is McCoy's first year as OC, but he has chosen to stick exclusively with a crap system that hasn't worked. When the offensive system sucks, who do you blame? You guessed it...

Mike McCoy.

My guess, Tebow comes in (game 6-9) starts scoring 25 ppg., in this weak offensive system, and saves McCoy's job.

Taco John
09-28-2011, 12:35 PM
Curious whether you (or anyone) thinks "Bowlen" actually means Bowlen or if "Bowlen" means Ellis? Or perhaps Bowlen/Ellis? Or something else?

As far as I'm concerned the buck stops with Bowlen. Now whether Bowlen is Ellis's puppet or Ellis is Bowlen's puppet, I guess I'll leave that up to the speculators, but at the end of the day, this is Bowlen's franchise.

Taco John
09-28-2011, 12:37 PM
You're leaving an important piece of information about Xanders.
Xanders forte is his ability to crunch numbers in favor of the team's pocket book.
That's what he does. He's good at negotiating contracts and putting together figures that impact the franchise's bottom line.
He's a numbers guy.
He's not your prototypical GM ala Pioli or Ferguson that goes out evaluate talents and make the bold move that may get the franchise over the top. He's not going out to get you the missing piece the team may need at a given time...

I didn't leave that out at all. I didn't specifically say "he's a numbers guy," but that's the gist of the post. The whole point I made is that he's not the shot caller, but the pencil pusher, and singling him out as a fall guy seems silly to me.

Inkana7
09-28-2011, 01:56 PM
McCoy is the offensive coordinator and calls all the plays. Last year, when Tebow was finally "allowed" to play, after the team went 3-10. McCoy dumbed down the playbook to something he thought Tebow could handle, "The Tebow Offense". Orton is not, and has never been more accurate than Tebow, yet we are supposed to believe Orton gives us "the best chance to win". Fox said, Orton knows the plays better than the offensive coaches. It is McCoy's first year as OC, but he has chosen to stick exclusively with a crap system that hasn't worked. When the offensive system sucks, who do you blame? You guessed it...

Mike McCoy.

My guess, Tebow comes in (game 6-9) starts scoring 25 ppg., in this weak offensive system, and saves McCoy's job.

Tebow's new nickname is "Mr. 25ppg"

Also this post is really dumb filled with fallacies. Say what you want about Tebow/Orton/whatever, but Orton is a lot more accurate.

bendog
09-28-2011, 02:06 PM
Having watched Carolina at least twice a year for the past near 20 years, I can pretty much guarantee you that the offense they're running next year is not what Fox likes, at least in terms of run/pass balance and calls in down-and-yardage situations.

Darkdoc
09-28-2011, 02:30 PM
Only two questions need to be asked that actually matter to the Broncos organization.

1. Did you pay for your season tickets this year?

2. Are you likely to pay for your tickets next year?

If "yes" is the answer to both, then every other question is a distraction and pretty much besides the point.

To fans, football is a spectator sport.

To the front office, it is a business with massive support in Denver, virtually whatever happens. While they understand that winning is eventually integral to fan support, the main question will always be centered around "how the team best makes money". Right now, the team has few problems in that area.

TonyR
09-28-2011, 03:56 PM
As far as I'm concerned the buck stops with Bowlen. Now whether Bowlen is Ellis's puppet or Ellis is Bowlen's puppet, I guess I'll leave that up to the speculators, but at the end of the day, this is Bowlen's franchise.

Oh I agree. I just wonder whether Bowlen is really making decisions on his own or being told what decisions to make at this point. I know there's been a lot of speculation that Ellis has been the one pulling the strings

pricejj
09-28-2011, 11:10 PM
Tebow's new nickname is "Mr. 25ppg"

Also this post is really dumb filled with fallacies. Say what you want about Tebow/Orton/whatever, but Orton is a lot more accurate.

LOL

"Orton is a lot more accurate" than who exactly?

The only starting NFL Quarterbacks who have a lower career completion percentage than Orton (58.1%) are: Michael Vick (55.4%), Matthew Stafford (57.0%), Mark Sanchez (55.3%), Rex Grossman (54.7%), and Alex Smith (57.6%). That makes Orton 27th out of 32 NFL QB's in accuracy.

Michael Vick has never been very accurate, but is an electric player, who has been to the playoffs multiple times, and can win games with his running ability.

Matthew Stafford just completed his 16th game in the NFL (basically a rookie). He is having a great year and will pass Orton in completion percentage in a couple games.

Mark Sanchez has not been very accurate his first two years in the NFL (~54%), but has managed to bring the Jets to the AFCCG twice, because he performs in the clutch. Accuracy is improving.

Rex Grossman will be replaced ASAP by Mike Shanahan, unless he makes the playoffs.

Alex Smith has shown flashes, but his replacement Colin Kaepernick was drafted last year. If Smith has a good year he will pass Orton by the end of the year. If not, he will be benched.


At Florida, Tim Tebow had an astounding 67.1% completion rate. Tebow has completed 41 of 82 NFL passes, with almost no reps or preparation, in garbage time, with a new coach, and playcaller. After the lockout, Tebow had a 64.5% completion rate this preseason. Do we know if Tebow is an NFL quality QB? No, but we need to find out.

Orton has a bottom 5 NFL QB completion rate over his career, with absolutely no playmaking ability with his feet, and an inability to perform in the clutch.

pricejj
09-28-2011, 11:16 PM
Tebow's new nickname is "Mr. 25ppg"

Also this post is really dumb filled with fallacies. Say what you want about Tebow/Orton/whatever, but Orton is a lot more accurate.

Stick to the facts homeboy. Maybe you don't like my avy? Who knows, who cares...but your football knowledge is very weak.

White Dragon
09-28-2011, 11:31 PM
LOL

"Orton is a lot more accurate" than who exactly?

The only starting NFL Quarterbacks who have a lower career completion percentage than Orton (58.1%) are: Michael Vick (55.4%), Matthew Stafford (57.0%), Mark Sanchez (55.3%), Rex Grossman (54.7%), and Alex Smith (57.6%). That makes Orton 27th out of 32 NFL QB's in accuracy.

Michael Vick has never been very accurate, but is an electric player, who has been to the playoffs multiple times, and can win games with his running ability.

Matthew Stafford just completed his 16th game in the NFL (basically a rookie). He is having a great year and will pass Orton in completion percentage in a couple games.

Mark Sanchez has not been very accurate his first two years in the NFL (~54%), but has managed to bring the Jets to the AFCCG twice, because he performs in the clutch. Accuracy is improving.

Rex Grossman will be replaced ASAP by Mike Shanahan, unless he makes the playoffs.

Alex Smith has shown flashes, but his replacement Colin Kaepernick was drafted last year. If Smith has a good year he will pass Orton by the end of the year. If not, he will be benched.


At Florida, Tim Tebow had an astounding 67.1% completion rate. Tebow has completed 41 of 82 NFL passes, with almost no reps or preparation, in garbage time, with a new coach, and playcaller. After the lockout, Tebow had a 64.5% completion rate this preseason. Do we know if Tebow is an NFL quality QB? No, but we need to find out.

Orton has a bottom 5 NFL QB completion rate over his career, with absolutely no playmaking ability with his feet, and an inability to perform in the clutch.

Completion percentage =/= accuracy.

Accuracy is the ability to put the ball where you're supposed to. Just because Tebow can throw the ball down the field doesn't mean he's more accurate than Orton.

There are many factors that play into completion percentage. For example, dropped balls, tipped balls, weather conditions, receivers running the correct/incorrect route, etc.

Taco John
09-29-2011, 12:14 AM
Completion percentage =/= accuracy.

Accuracy is the ability to put the ball where you're supposed to. Just because Tebow can throw the ball down the field doesn't mean he's more accurate than Orton.

There are many factors that play into completion percentage. For example, dropped balls, tipped balls, weather conditions, receivers running the correct/incorrect route, etc.

There's really only one stat that matters though: points scored.

ol#7
09-29-2011, 01:13 AM
Completion percentage =/= accuracy.

Accuracy is the ability to put the ball where you're supposed to. Just because Tebow can throw the ball down the field doesn't mean he's more accurate than Orton.

There are many factors that play into completion percentage. For example, dropped balls, tipped balls, weather conditions, receivers running the correct/incorrect route, etc.

You got that right, then again there is already a thread about how many tipped at the LOS balls Orton throws.

When will people stop making excuses for the guy?

EmpireOrange
09-29-2011, 05:09 AM
I keep hearing that Orton gives us our best chance to win. So my question is who takes the fall for this wen the season is over. Obviously somebody didn't do there homework. Orton is on his way to lead us to yet another losing season.

There should have been plenty of tape that showed this. So who gets canned for it ?

Have you listened to this week's episode of Elway Live yet? The company line of "Orton gives us the best chance to win" is wearing real thin with Mr. Elway. Basically he explained it as Orton is a veteran in the system and the others were hurt from the short offseason and new coaching staff. He also said that Orton has to get better at making plays when the game is on the line. Elway is not a Orton fan its obvious. Every time catch an Elway interview, it becomes more and more clear that he simply tolerates Orton; and really likes Tebow.

fontaine
09-29-2011, 05:26 AM
McCoy is the offensive coordinator and calls all the plays. Last year, when Tebow was finally "allowed" to play, after the team went 3-10. McCoy dumbed down the playbook to something he thought Tebow could handle, "The Tebow Offense". Orton is not, and has never been more accurate than Tebow, yet we are supposed to believe Orton gives us "the best chance to win". Fox said, Orton knows the plays better than the offensive coaches. It is McCoy's first year as OC, but he has chosen to stick exclusively with a crap system that hasn't worked. When the offensive system sucks, who do you blame? You guessed it...

Mike McCoy.

My guess, Tebow comes in (game 6-9) starts scoring 25 ppg., in this weak offensive system, and saves McCoy's job.

Mike McCoy isn't running the same playbook.

1. Firstly it's a more balanced scheme that doesn't just abandon the run when the hard yards are tough to come by.

2. The one step drop and dump off isn't there like it was last year.

3. WR groupings like the trip formation with two WRs aligned ahead of another that act as blockers while the third guy gets the short reception isn't there either.

4. We're using a FB and power formations more often than last year.

5. And screen plays? Honestly, have we seen a single screen this year?

Those are just some of the things off the top of my head.

I think a far more accurate reflection would be that at times the OL hasn't provided the kind of protection that allows for intermediate/sideline passes. Some of it has been the injuries to Lloyd/Royal/Thomas.

But a lot of it just comes down to Orton crapping out. Not looking downfield, not even attempting to go for bigger gains and choosing to nickel and dime it. Especially when guys have been open but he hasn't found them.

But that's to be expected. Right from the Monday night game I knew Orton was playing not to lose his job rather than going all out to help his team win.

fontaine
09-29-2011, 05:36 AM
Completion percentage =/= accuracy.

Accuracy is the ability to put the ball where you're supposed to. Just because Tebow can throw the ball down the field doesn't mean he's more accurate than Orton.

There are many factors that play into completion percentage. For example, dropped balls, tipped balls, weather conditions, receivers running the correct/incorrect route, etc.

You're right, accuracy is being able to put the ball where you need to, in which case Orton fails miserabley because he has a 47% completion rate for any pass thrown over 10 yards.

Dumping the ball of 3-5 yards and nickel and diming it when you're behind, or in the red zone, or your defense has just turned over the ball isn't being a QB, it's not throwing the ball where you need to. It's taking the easiest way out and playing not to lose the job.

Watch Kyle's throws in relations to down and distance. There were a few 2nd half passes he threw to a WR that were well short of the first down marker on third down plays because it was the easiest/safest option.

That tells me all I need to know about how accurate/efficient of a QB he is.

vonqkilla
09-29-2011, 06:18 AM
”Minus the goal line stand, we were 2-for-2. So, we're improving. Now it's just getting the sense of urgency and getting everybody to do it right, and then I think you'll start seeing 35 points on the board rather than 23." - Neckbeard

Are you kidding me you fraudulent journeyman joke of a qb.

Since when are we 2 for 2, well except for that one... Who says that?


& when did we put up 23 effing pts?

This dude and dove valley are spinning lies or drunk, ko is so delusional about his skill level, just wow. http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19000691

jhns
09-29-2011, 09:06 AM
I can't say that I could give Xanders a ringing endorsement. About the best thing that I can say about the guy is that he was a Shanahan hiring, which at least gives him the benefit of a doubt for me - especially where the end of Shanahan's tenure as GM is concerned when I thought the front office was hitting a fresh stride and putting the franchise back on the right rail. But as far as Xanders goes, I tried to put together a list back in January of the reasons I thought he should be canned, and I wasn't able to come up with a lot. (It would appear that Elway came to the same conclusion.) From everything I've heard, the guy works with a mandate and by all accounts he does a good job fulfilling whatever mandate he's been given.

I don't believe the guy was pushing to get Jay out of town. I don't think the guy was trying to get Cassel into the franchise. I don't think the guy was hot to make Orton our team's focal point. I don't think the guy was pushing McDaniels to get rid of Hillis. I don't think the guy was demanding that we trade away a first round pick for Alphonso Smith. I don't think the guy was demanding that we abandon Alphonso Smith after one year of "development." He might have been part of the crew that brought McDaniels in, but ultimately, that was Bowlen's decision - don't you think? Personally, I imagine that Xanders saw the way the wind was blowing on that decision and decided that it would be better to fly a kite in that wind than try to try and blow against it.

I'm not here to necessarily defend the guy, but when I get down to it, I have a hard time pinning anything on him. The whole meme of him being the guy who calls the pizza in - I think that greatly simplifies what his job is, but there's probably some underlying truth to it. I think he probably gets told in a meeting that he participates in that "X is what the franchise wants, with Y being the fallback" and then he goes out and executes X to the best of his ability, and goes for Y should X fail.

For me, I see Xanders a lot like any of us with the distinction that he's actually doing the stuff. He loves football. Can't get enough of it. Loves to talk about it. Loves to watch it. Loves to evaluate players. Loves to follow the sport. Loves to look at every angle and scenario. Loves the number game of it all. He's SoCalBronco, except he's actually found his way into the inner circle and is actually doing it.

I tried to find a reason not to like the guy when the franchise was making the transition away from Josh to John, and the more I dug into the guy, the more I found reasons to give him the benefit of a doubt - and even start to like him.

Xanders needs to go for several reasons. The biggest is that he is the reason the Goodmans were fired. It was rumored that he demanded the GM job and then Bowlen came out talking about how Xanders and the Goodmans couldn't work together. Xanders was also the guy that was supposed to report directly to Bowlen on how the McDaniels coaching stafd was doing. He was the GM during some terrible dradts and while this team made some of the worst player decisions I have ever seen.

Him and Ellis need to go.

bendog
09-29-2011, 01:18 PM
I don't understand what you are trying to say...

I was asking if anyone had an idea who Elway might want to mentor a young QB..

I wasn't really opining on Gase one way or another. Shanny, Payton and Holmgren were all college qb's. Even McD had a qb background in HS before being a small school wr. But I don't know that it's impossible for a guy who is more a WR coach to teach qb fundamentals. Honestly, I'm surprised Tebow hasn't mastered them becuase I thought that was what McD's little brother was hired to do. Be the guy both the qb and head coach could trust and communicate through. I thought Orton was obviously being treated as a place holder, and I thought he handled it pretty well.

I simply thought it odd that Gase didn't play college football. I have no idea why. He might have been injured in HS or something. It was just something I saw as a odd "factoid." I thought it was pretty universal for coaches to have a college playing career.

Is Gase a good qb coach? I have no idea. Mike McCoy was Fox's qb coach till he came to Den. Before that he was WR coach. The two guys obviously are ok working together. Gase was Det's qb coach when Kitna went over 4k.