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epicSocialism4tw
09-26-2011, 09:10 PM
Through the first three weeks, this is what I've got:

Kansas City
Miami
Cincinatti
Indy sans Melonhead
Seattle
Minnesota
Carolina
Jacksonville

IMO, these teams are rough equivalents right now, who could ultimately be better or worse than Denver:

St. Louis
Arizona
Cleveland
Chicago
San Franny

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It might be more difficult than I had thought to end up with a top 5 pick. There are a lot of bad teams this year.

Tim
09-26-2011, 09:17 PM
St. Louis is worse than denver.

MCd's Offense sucks
and the Defense can't stop the run, 0-3 and not even competitive.

sgbfan
09-26-2011, 09:18 PM
I think SF could be included as about equal.

vancejohnson82
09-26-2011, 09:18 PM
Minnesota would wipe the floor with us

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 09:18 PM
Chiefs. And we will still split the series.

t-diddy
09-26-2011, 09:32 PM
Good list...

I think Minnesota will get things together eventually though.

spdirty
09-26-2011, 09:36 PM
For ****s sakes, LOOK at the schedule! Gb loss, sd loss, AT Miami loss, Detroit loss, AT Oakland loss, AT Kansas City 70% chance of a loss, Jets loss, at sd loss, at Minnesota yeah right, bears win, new England yeah right, at buffalo loss, and kc is the Luck bowl.

I know **** happens week to week that changes things, but as it stands now I have us at 3-13, maybe 2-14.

Real analysis should be teams worse than us that are on our schedule. Then see if any of the teams you listed will have a better or worse record than us.

jhns
09-26-2011, 09:37 PM
All of them.

epicSocialism4tw
09-26-2011, 09:38 PM
I think SF could be included as about equal.

Added.

Bronx33
09-26-2011, 09:40 PM
For ****s sakes, LOOK at the schedule! Gb loss, sd loss, AT Miami loss, Detroit loss, AT Oakland loss, AT Kansas City 70% chance of a loss, Jets loss, at sd loss, at Minnesota yeah right, bears win, new England yeah right, at buffalo loss, and kc is the Luck bowl.

I know **** happens week to week that changes things, but as it stands now I have us at 3-13, maybe 2-14.

Real analysis should be teams worse than us that are on our schedule. Then see if any of the teams you listed will have a better or worse record than us.




PPPPPPPPFFFTTTTT!!!! Were not losing to the da bears.

sgbfan
09-26-2011, 09:42 PM
Teams that could end up worse than Denver and are looking for a QB are Kansas City, Seattle, San Fran, Miami, Indianapolis, Maybe Cleveland. Seattle and SF should win a few more because of their division anyway. The rest pretty much got potential QB's of the Future. If we don't end up with the first pick my hope is that its St Louis that ends up with it and is willing to trade to get a potential STAR QB out of their conference. That is if Tebow gets a chance to prove himself and proves to not be the answer.

epicSocialism4tw
09-26-2011, 09:42 PM
Minnesota would wipe the floor with us

They're rolling with McNabb which is like attaching your wagon to a pile of goat turds. The wagon ain't gonna move, and its going to smell progressively worse.

Thats good for 8 losses right there.

Ortie is Roger Staubach compared to McNabb.

epicSocialism4tw
09-26-2011, 09:46 PM
For ****s sakes, LOOK at the schedule! Gb loss, sd loss, AT Miami loss, Detroit loss, AT Oakland loss, AT Kansas City 70% chance of a loss, Jets loss, at sd loss, at Minnesota yeah right, bears win, new England yeah right, at buffalo loss, and kc is the Luck bowl.

I know **** happens week to week that changes things, but as it stands now I have us at 3-13, maybe 2-14.

Real analysis should be teams worse than us that are on our schedule. Then see if any of the teams you listed will have a better or worse record than us.

Odds are, some of those teams will be better than expected and some teams that we think are good right now end up being worse.

sgbfan
09-26-2011, 09:49 PM
For ****s sakes, LOOK at the schedule! Gb loss, sd loss, AT Miami loss, Detroit loss, AT Oakland loss, AT Kansas City 70% chance of a loss, Jets loss, at sd loss, at Minnesota yeah right, bears win, new England yeah right, at buffalo loss, and kc is the Luck bowl.

I know **** happens week to week that changes things, but as it stands now I have us at 3-13, maybe 2-14.

Real analysis should be teams worse than us that are on our schedule. Then see if any of the teams you listed will have a better or worse record than us.

Agree. Our Schedule gives us a real advantage in the Luck Bowl. Miami has a tough schedule, but I think they are better than us. Indy has a tough schedule, but not quite as tough as ours, they are just bad on offense though. I would HATE to see them go from one 15 year pro bowler to another one though.

epicSocialism4tw
09-26-2011, 09:50 PM
Right now I would say that Indy has the inside track on the worst record in the league, and thus Andrew Luck. Indy and KC are the front runners, IMO.

epicSocialism4tw
09-26-2011, 09:51 PM
Guys, we're going to win more than one, two, or three games. I could see us winning 5 or 6.

We're not as bad as some of you think. We're pretty much a mediocre team. The run defense was pretty awesome last week, and we were missing a bunch of defensive starters.

SportinOne
09-26-2011, 09:52 PM
For ****s sakes, LOOK at the schedule! Gb loss, sd loss, AT Miami loss, Detroit loss, AT Oakland loss, AT Kansas City 70% chance of a loss, Jets loss, at sd loss, at Minnesota yeah right, bears win, new England yeah right, at buffalo loss, and kc is the Luck bowl.

I know **** happens week to week that changes things, but as it stands now I have us at 3-13, maybe 2-14.

Real analysis should be teams worse than us that are on our schedule. Then see if any of the teams you listed will have a better or worse record than us.

okay.. we are not going to beat the bears and you know it..

we will beat KC at least once.. you have to figure we are gifted an upset against a good team by the law of averages or the football gods..

3-13 it is.

Now, let's look at the Colts:

@TB - L
KC - ?
@CIN - ?
@NO - BFL
@TEN - L
ATL - L
JAX - ?
CAR - L
@NE - BFL
@BAL - L
TEN - ?
HOU - L
@JAX - L

Those four games will determine everything.. however, this whole thing reminds me of when San Antonio lost David Robinson for the year and got to draft Tim Duncan.. it feels inevitable..

Bob's your Information Minister
09-26-2011, 09:54 PM
Miami is a better team than their record. They have a lot of talent.

OBF1
09-26-2011, 09:58 PM
okay.. we are not going to beat the bears and you know it..

we will beat KC at least once.. you have to figure we are gifted an upset against a good team by the law of averages or the football gods..

3-13 it is.

Now, let's look at the Colts:

@TB - L
KC - ?
@CIN - ?
@NO - BFL
@TEN - L
ATL - L
JAX - ?
CAR - L
@NE - BFL
@BAL - L
TEN - ?
HOU - L
@JAX - L

Those four games will determine everything.. however, this whole thing reminds me of when San Antonio lost David Robinson for the year and got to draft Tim Duncan.. it feels inevitable..

My brother and I were talking about the exact same thing just yeasterday

ICON
09-26-2011, 10:02 PM
Denver Drafted 2nd this year and Denver will be Drafting top 5 after this year.

Bad teams draft top 10 but for me as of now I am loving next years draft it could end up all good after a few drafts and FA.

2 years and Denver will be in the playoffs i hope.

epicSocialism4tw
09-26-2011, 10:06 PM
My brother and I were talking about the exact same thing just yeasterday

They depend on Manning so much that they really just don't have the players or the system to win. You have a team built for the high octane Manning passing game...the talent they have paid for was acquired to accentuate Manning's game.

I cant see them winning more than 2 or 3 games. They were not prepared for life without Manning this season.

Ranger24
09-26-2011, 10:14 PM
There are a lot of bad teams this year but our schedule is brutal. luckily we have the Chiefs twice so that should help our overall record

DBroncos4life
09-26-2011, 10:15 PM
After this year McD will be long gone from the NFL.

Houshyamama
09-26-2011, 10:53 PM
What a depressing topic.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lov6u2DmWs1qiiky3.jpg

SportinOne
09-26-2011, 11:44 PM
After this year McD will be long gone from the NFL.

so... im wondering.. did all the McD supporters ever come out and admit that they were wrong? it seemed that they were on his side right up until the final moment and then i just sort of tuned out on everything broncos for a while..

The Joker
09-27-2011, 01:09 AM
Chicago are on the list?

Jesus christ, I know they've lost to two bottomfeeders in Green Bay and New Orleans but maybe with that absolutely awesome defense they have along with some good pieces on O there's a chance they might turn it around?

epicSocialism4tw
09-27-2011, 01:18 AM
Chicago are on the list?

Jesus christ, I know they've lost to two bottomfeeders in Green Bay and New Orleans but maybe with that absolutely awesome defense they have along with some good pieces on O there's a chance they might turn it around?

Jay Cutler isnt going to last long behind that line.

ol#7
09-27-2011, 01:34 AM
so... im wondering.. did all the McD supporters ever come out and admit that they were wrong? it seemed that they were on his side right up until the final moment and then i just sort of tuned out on everything broncos for a while..

They were holding on to the hope he would still turn out to be a great head coach somewhere else down the line and thus ultimately vindicate their high opinion of themselves.

Maybe Ben can help him get an interview for the JV team.

ol#7
09-27-2011, 01:35 AM
Jay Cutler isnt going to last long behind that line.

That line is a swinging gate. Its not Cutler holding onto the ball either, he cant even finish his drop.

Play2win
09-27-2011, 02:13 AM
okay..

Those four games will determine everything.. however, this whole thing reminds me of when San Antonio lost David Robinson for the year and got to draft Tim Duncan.. it feels inevitable..

Or the Lakers got James Worthy.

epicSocialism4tw
09-27-2011, 02:28 AM
Or the Lakers got James Worthy.

Or when the Seahawks got Dan Majkowski.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 05:32 AM
Chicago are on the list?

Jesus christ, I know they've lost to two bottomfeeders in Green Bay and New Orleans but maybe with that absolutely awesome defense they have along with some good pieces on O there's a chance they might turn it around?

Chicago is probably an 8-8 team to be honest.

TonyR
09-27-2011, 06:42 AM
Chicago is probably an 8-8 team to be honest.

I agree. They probably don't belong on this list.

Drek
09-27-2011, 07:46 AM
Kansas City - Horrible team. Might actually be worse than us. More consistent on defense though. If Jones and McCluster find a spark they could surprise.

Miami - Better than us. Better OL, more cohesive defense, better #1 RB. We also play them @Miami, we always suck going east for what will likely be an early game.

Cincinatti - We barely scratched out a win over them. Dalton and AJ Green look like a match up that could blow up on someone. They still have Indy, another game in the Cleve, and the three worst NFC West teams on the docket. I'd expect their final record to be better than ours.

Indy sans Melonhead - Painter showed some fight against Pittsburgh. Wayne, Clark, etc. are all still there. I wouldn't be surprised if they throw some late season surprises on people.

Seattle - Bad team playing in a bad division. I'd expect roughly a split in division play, so three wins.

Minnesota - MUCH better team than Denver. Solid DL with some play makers, solid LBs, Peterson is still a beast, Harvin will get his big games in here and there. McNabb isn't all that impressive but with Peterson he doesn't have to be. They barely lost to San Diego and Detroit, they'll throw a beating on some Arizona and us, when each team goes to Minny. @KC and @CAR are probably wins too.

Carolina - Have the same number of wins as us and played better teams on the way there. Still have games against AZ, TEN, Indy. Wouldn't be surprised to see Cam + Steve Smith go off on ATL, TB, or NO one of these weeks and steal a game.

Jacksonville - Still have games against CAR, CLE, TEN, and 2xIndy. Gabbert will get better as the season goes on, MJD is an X Factor guy who can steal a game.

St. Louis - Losses against PHI, NYG, and BAL doesn't tell you much. This team is young and has put up yardage on some solid defenses this year sans-Steven Jackson. Worst of their schedule is behind them and at worst a split of the division is highly likely.

Arizona - Bad team but they've got a bell cow back, an all word WR, and a QB who can get him the ball. In their division a split is very possible. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Kolb/Fitz combo steal a game or two here and there as well.

Cleveland - Hillis and Hardesty are a good 1/2 punch, Colt McCoy is a much better QB than we have in Orton, just working through a new system. I'd bet on them finishing the season fairly strong under Shurmur.

Chicago - They won a tough division last year. They aren't real good but they'll take wins away from people out of division, at least enough to get close to .500 and no where near our final record.

San Franny - another NFC West team, likely division split. They finally went to Vernon Davis this weekend and got a win over Cincy by more than we beat them by. Their defense is legit. If Gore can stay healthy or Hunter proves himself a very good #2 option (highly likely) they could make some noise as they settle in under Harbaugh.

As for the Broncos, I don't see a win on our schedule until week 10, going into KC. We generally have sucked there so I doubt that is even guaranteed. Does anyone think we're stealing games from GB, DET, NE, or 2x SD? Chicago is definitely better than us. Minnesota is better than us and matches up against our weaknesses perfectly, plus we go there. We've always sucked going cross country for early games, which we do against Miami. Buffalo looks like a tough club right now and matches up with our biggest weaknesses, not to mention its another flight cross country for an early game.

Seriously. Our remaining out of division home games are Jets, Bears, Pats. Thats 0-3 right there. Our out of division road games are GB, Minny, MIA, BUF. We're lucky to go 1-3. Oakland crushed us worse than the final score indicated at home, you really think we're winning in Oakland? SD is actually winning games early. That is a bad sign for the rest of this division. Likely two beatings right there.

Face it, this team went 4-12 last year with four games against the NFC West. You really think that we're going to swap NFC West for NFC North and do better? Our best hopes were the other "worst v. worst" matchups against division worst teams last year. We're 1-1 in those right now with another asking us to travel cross country for an early game, and the last against Buffalo who look pretty damn good and get us in a cross country early game as well.

We're getting destroyed this year. Embrace it.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 07:56 AM
What Drek said.

I don't quite agree with all your takes on the various teams, but I do agree the overall point of your post. We are screwed. Doubly so as long as Orton remains our starter.

Drek
09-27-2011, 08:07 AM
I don't quite agree with all your takes on the various teams, but I do agree the overall point of your post. We are screwed. Doubly so as long as Orton remains our starter.

FYI, I think people would appreciate it if you cropped down the post of mine you quoted. It was rather verbose and so quoting it immediately after takes up a ton of space on a page.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 08:13 AM
FYI, I think people would appreciate it if you cropped down the post of mine you quoted. It was rather verbose and so quoting it immediately after takes up a ton of space on a page.

Yeah, I didn't think about it, but quoting that whole post was a bit much.

TonyR
09-27-2011, 08:19 AM
...I don't see a win on our schedule until week 10...

We aren't very good, and that's being generous, but I guarantee you we win at least 1 game before week 10.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-27-2011, 08:20 AM
Jay Cutler is working on a patent for his new 13-step drop.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 08:22 AM
We aren't very good, and that's being generous, but I guarantee you we win at least 1 game before week 10.

Yeah, that's the problem with looking at a schedule and predicting games. Every game is just so unpredictable. While the schedule might make it look like we won't win another game until week 10, the truth is that a team is going to play down to us or we are going to play up to them. We'll almost certainly have, at minimum, a second win by that time.

Tombstone RJ
09-27-2011, 08:23 AM
Through the first three weeks, this is what I've got:

Kansas City
Miami
Cincinatti
Indy sans Melonhead
Seattle
Minnesota
Carolina
Jacksonville

IMO, these teams are rough equivalents right now, who could ultimately be better or worse than Denver:

St. Louis
Arizona
Cleveland
Chicago
San Franny

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It might be more difficult than I had thought to end up with a top 5 pick. There are a lot of bad teams this year.

isn't Carolina undefeated?

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 08:23 AM
isn't Carolina undefeated?

Err...they just got their first win. They're 1-2.

Tombstone RJ
09-27-2011, 08:27 AM
Err...they just got their first win. They're 1-2.

oh my bad.

t-diddy
09-27-2011, 08:27 AM
Drek the Dreamcrusher... good analysis, depressing, but thorough. Puts this season in perspective...

spdirty
09-27-2011, 08:28 AM
isn't Carolina undefeated?

It only feels like they're undefeated because everyone just figured out they have a franchise quarterback to build around.

edog24
09-27-2011, 08:29 AM
Drek seems to be right on. I do think we will suprise someone, although probably nobody in our division. I think we will see Luck in the AFCW next year one way or another.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 08:37 AM
It only feels like they're undefeated because everyone just figured out they have a franchise quarterback to build around.

Watching Cam Newton out of the shotgun this season is seriously making me ill. For obvious reasons.

go_broncos
09-27-2011, 08:44 AM
It's better to be worst than worse..Atleast, we will have a number one pick.

Drek
09-27-2011, 09:26 AM
We aren't very good, and that's being generous, but I guarantee you we win at least 1 game before week 10.

Its the NFL so "any given Sunday" and all that. But after our 2-2 start last year our remaining schedule was as follows:
@BAL - L
NYJ - L
OAK - L
@SF (London) - L
KC - W
@SD - L
STL - L
@KC - L
@AZ - L
@OAK - L
HOU - W
SD - L

So we lost to San Fran on a neutral field, St. Louis in Denver, @AZ, got swept by Oakland, etc..

The only wins we got were at home against KC, a sham team last year, and Houston, the worst secondary in the entire NFL.

So you're saying that you think we have a real shot up to week 10 when we play:
@GB
SD
@MIA
DET
@OAK

What game do we steal? SD has owned us in and out of Denver for several years now. Oakland raped us in Denver, you think they'll be easier in Oakland? Detroit has blown teams with better secondaries than ours out of the water. Green Bay will likely do the same next week.

So what are we hoping for, @MIA? The record for teams going west to east for early games is pretty damn ugly. Ours in particular is one of the worst. We'll likely be 1-4, so much of this team would probably already know what we are as a club. We're coming off the bye week but that hasn't done us any favors in recent years.

Who stops Daniel Thomas from running over us? Powerful running backs are the kryptonite of the Denver Broncos. Who covers Marshall if Champ isn't 100% by then?

That is our best chance and we shouldn't be a favorite going into that game. With the combination of schedule and lack of roster improvement we're a leading candidate for the #1 pick. Add in a likely QB carousel from Orton to Quinn to Tebow over the course of the year. Add in old, injury prone, or both key players (Doom, Dawkins, Champ, DJ, McGahee, Lloyd). Add a lack of depth at every position except WR.

This team was built to put Elway in position to draft Andrew Luck. Maybe not intentionally, but its a damn good attempt regardless.

You notice how all the other teams I broke down seem to be playing each other? Cincy and Cleveland, KC has Indy, Indy plays most of them. Carolina and Jacksonville have some other teams from the list on their schedule. The NFC West hasn't even hit the stride of full divisional play yet.

We're the only team staring down the barrel of a schedule with no other horrible teams. @Miami screws us because of the travel issue. Buffalo isn't a cupcake anymore. KC maybe, but that is two divisional games. A split is likely there.

Maybe one of those other teams completely falls apart and fails in all their worst v. worst match ups. But we don't even have that kind of roll the dice opportunity. Most of our schedule is teams on the rise (DET, BUF), solid teams that match up great with our weaknesses (MIN, OAK, SD, CHI), or stone cold killers who rarely drop games to scrubs (GB, NYJ, NE).

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 09:33 AM
There's no way we are the leading candidate for the #1 pick. Kansas City is clearly worse than us right now and won't be getting back their injured players like we will. They also play almost the exact same schedule. Beyond that there are teams like St. Louis, Seattle, and Indianapolis that look like they will struggle to top 4 wins as well. We're definitely in the running, but we certainly don't look like the favorite.

Hercules Rockefeller
09-27-2011, 09:40 AM
There's no way we are the leading candidate for the #1 pick. Kansas City is clearly worse than us right now and won't be getting back their injured players like we will. They also play almost the exact same schedule. Beyond that there are teams like St. Louis, Seattle, and Indianapolis that look like they will struggle to top 4 wins as well. We're definitely in the running, but we certainly don't look like the favorite.

4 wins puts you out of the Luck sweepstakes, someone is only going to win 1 or 2 games and get him. StL is going to win more than 4 games too.

Hercules Rockefeller
09-27-2011, 09:43 AM
There are 2 games remaining on the schedule that people should think the Broncos **could** win, @KC and KC. That's it.

The Joker
09-27-2011, 09:45 AM
I'm torn.

I can never root for us to lose, and I like Tebow and will be really hoping he does well when Orton and Quinn inevitably **** themselves and are benched. I'd be delighted to see him become a quality NFL QB and play here for years.

But on the other hand I think Luck will be awesome, guys just looks the complete ****ing package.

Wouldn't be the worst year to go 2-14, I'll say that much.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 09:47 AM
4 wins puts you out of the Luck sweepstakes, someone is only going to win 1 or 2 games and get him. StL is going to win more than 4 games too.

I said those teams will struggle to top four wins. We will as well most likely. Four wins gave us the #2 pick by the way.

RaiderH8r
09-27-2011, 09:48 AM
"Orton gives us the best chance to win...by losing enough that we get Luck"
-Sly like a Fox.

TonyR
09-27-2011, 09:50 AM
I'm torn.

I can never root for us to lose, and I like Tebow and will be really hoping he does well when Orton and Quinn inevitably **** themselves and are benched. I'd be delighted to see him become a quality NFL QB and play here for years.

But on the other hand I think Luck will be awesome, guys just looks the complete ****ing package.

Wouldn't be the worst year to go 2-14, I'll say that much.

Yup, sadly I have to agree with this. I root for us to win the games but big picture I'm almost okay with the losing if it means we get a shot at Luck.

Tombstone RJ
09-27-2011, 09:52 AM
Yup, sadly I have to agree with this. I root for us to win the games but big picture I'm almost okay with the losing if it means we get a shot at Luck.

the only silver lining is a chance for Luck if the Broncos keep sucking. That's my only consolation... "well, the Broncos stunk it up again, maybe we'll parlay this crap into Luck... the ole lucky parlay justification for the knife in my back... yah, that's the ticket!

Hercules Rockefeller
09-27-2011, 10:03 AM
I said those teams will struggle to top four wins. We will as well most likely. Four wins gave us the #2 pick by the way.

KC picked 3rd in the '09 draft after winning 2 games. No one gives a **** that 4 games meant the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th overall picks last year because it was last year.

And-

StL has the following games remaining- Arizona x2, Seattle x2, San Fran x2, Cleveland, and Cincy.

They are not going to struggle to top 4 wins when those are 8 of their remaining 13 games.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 10:04 AM
There are 2 games remaining on the schedule that people should think the Broncos **could** win, @KC and KC. That's it.

...Are you still feeling good about not spending some money this off-season?

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 10:06 AM
KC picked 3rd in the '09 draft after winning 2 games. No one gives a **** that 4 games meant the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th overall picks last year because it was last year.

Exactly. Each year is different. A three or four win team could easily end up with the #1 pick next draft. There's no predicting such things.

Hercules Rockefeller
09-27-2011, 10:07 AM
...Are you still feeling good about not spending some money this off-season?

I always said they weren't making the playoffs either way, so I'm fine with it.

Rebuilding team is rebuilding. It has to happen once in awhile. Hopefully they can build a solid core going forward now.

TheDave
09-27-2011, 10:13 AM
Sorry Folks I just don't see it. We are going to win at least 4 games, and that alone takes us out of the race.

Our only real hope is that a team like St. Louis or carolina that just invested heavily in a QB gets the #1 and puts it up for sale.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 10:14 AM
Sorry Folks I just don't see it. We are going to win more than 4 games that alone takes us out of the race.

Our only real hope is that a team like St. Louis or carolina that just invested heavily in a QB gets the #1 and puts it up for sale.

Trading away our entire draft for one guy doesn't seem like much of a hope to me...

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 10:16 AM
I always said they weren't making the playoffs either way, so I'm fine with it.

Rebuilding team is rebuilding. It has to happen once in awhile. Hopefully they can build a solid core going forward now.

That's just such a dog**** excuse and you know it.

Rebuilding means reBUILDING. It doesn't mean "Quit"

Are you saying it doesnt bother you at all that we ignored the opportunity to grab a few building blocks towards actually rebuilding?

In 3 games we have 0 INTs despite having a DC and HC that are former secondary guys. Joseph has 2 by himself. And Cofield has helped turn Washington into one of the best D's in the NFL.

And both are YOUNG. Not even in their prime yet. In positions of GREAT need and at extremely reasonable price tags.

But who cares when we can lose more games right? Sounds awesome.

TonyR
09-27-2011, 10:17 AM
Our only real hope is that a team like St. Louis or carolina that just invested heavily in a QB gets the #1 and puts it up for sale.

Which I think is a worst case scenario because then you typically give up way too much.

TonyR
09-27-2011, 10:17 AM
Trading away our entire draft for one guy doesn't seem like much of a hope to me...

You beat me to it.

RaiderH8r
09-27-2011, 10:18 AM
Trading away our entire draft for one guy doesn't seem like much of a hope to me...

The Minnesota Vikings and New Orleans Saints agree.

alkemical
09-27-2011, 10:21 AM
"Orton gives us the best chance to win...by losing enough that we get Luck"
-Sly like a Fox.

http://www.slyfoxbeer.com/

TheDave
09-27-2011, 10:31 AM
Which I think is a worst case scenario because then you typically give up way too much.

IMO, you can not give up too much for a franchise QB.

There are simply not enough of them and you will have a real difficult time winning without one.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 10:32 AM
You beat me to it.

I think we'll throw in Elvis and maybe another player or two and a 2nd or potentially a future first

alkemical
09-27-2011, 10:32 AM
I think we'll throw in Elvis and maybe another player or two and a 2nd or potentially a future first

I was thinking maybe Champ to another team for ammo to move up as well.

I could see Elvis getting moved to a 3/4 team.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 10:35 AM
IMO, you can not give up too much for a franchise QB.

There are simply not enough of them and you will have a real difficult time winning without one.

Trading away your entire draft for one pick that has a significant chance to bust or underperform is a terrible move. Even for a QB. And in case you didn't know, Luck isn't franchise QB yet.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 10:37 AM
I think we'll throw in Elvis and maybe another player or two and a 2nd or potentially a future first

Sure why not? Maybe adding in Von Miller as well would sweeten the deal enough to make it happen. All we need is Luck apparently. ::)

Mountain Bronco
09-27-2011, 10:38 AM
Through the first three weeks, this is what I've got:

Kansas City (worse)
Miami (worse)
Cincinatti (will be better at least they have young talent)
Indy sans Melonhead (Better - they played the Steelers close)
Seattle (worse)
Minnesota (better the corpse of McNabb is dragging the entire team down)
Carolina (much better - Cam is the real deal)
Jacksonville (better - they have some upside not sure we do other than Miller)

IMO, these teams are rough equivalents right now, who could ultimately be better or worse than Denver:

St. Louis (Better, but have an equally brutal schedule - could be 0-7)
Arizona (better - Kolb looks ok, but D looks shaky)
Cleveland (better when Hillis gets healthy)
Chicago (Better - much better - good D, good running back, ok QB, awful Oline)
San Franny (worse)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It might be more difficult than I had thought to end up with a top 5 pick. There are a lot of bad teams this year.

Ya, some bad teams, but we are really bad. This was the easy part of our schedule, where some thought we could be 3-0 and look where we are at. Ouch.

TonyR
09-27-2011, 10:58 AM
IMO, you can not give up too much for a franchise QB.

There are simply not enough of them and you will have a real difficult time winning without one.

I don't disagree, but I'm saying "worst case scenario" because I'd much prefer to have the first pick than to give up multiple assets to get it. That way you can use those assets to get players to surround the franchise QB with.

TheDave
09-27-2011, 11:06 AM
I don't disagree, but I'm saying "worst case scenario" because I'd much prefer to have the first pick than to give up multiple assets to get it. That way you can use those assets to get players to surround the franchise QB with.

I know, unfortunately for those few of us that do not believe in any part of Tebow/Orton/Brady... I have to hope something happens.

We either sell our soul for Luck or jump in on the left overs depending where we are at.

IMO, If Luck is for Sale and EFX are convinced his is Manning 2.0 they need to go make it happen regardless of the price.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 11:14 AM
I know, unfortunately for those few of us that do not believe in any part of Tebow/Orton/Brady... I have to hope something happens.

We either sell our soul for Luck or jump in on the left overs depending where we are at.

IMO, If Luck is for Sale and EFX are convinced his is Manning 2.0 they need to go make it happen regardless of the price.

Yup. Even if Indy had dumped Marshall Faulk and a pair of firsts... would've been worth it.

And let's be real... We don't have ANY Marshall Faulks on the field.

Drek
09-27-2011, 11:19 AM
There's no way we are the leading candidate for the #1 pick. Kansas City is clearly worse than us right now and won't be getting back their injured players like we will. They also play almost the exact same schedule. Beyond that there are teams like St. Louis, Seattle, and Indianapolis that look like they will struggle to top 4 wins as well. We're definitely in the running, but we certainly don't look like the favorite.

Our schedule is significantly worse than the rest of our competition. Our home games are either divisional match ups or very good clubs that will likely demolish us.

Our road games are either on the east coast for early morning match ups, against teams who's strengths perfectly match our weaknesses, or a combination of both.

Look at the "maybe" games on our schedule.

@Miami - early morning coast crosser against a team with an emerging power RB and a defense that has big, powerful guys in the front seven. You feel good about that?

@Buffalo - They just beat New England in a shootout. Fred Jackson is still a horse. You really feal good about early Sunday morning in Buffalo, late in the season, with this heartless Broncos club? The biggest sense of urgency our team will show in that game is the race for seats next to the heaters.

@KC/KC - toss ups here, divisional match ups are always tough. Probably a split.

@Minnesota - big, powerful DL with Allen and Kevin Williams. Powerful, dangerous RB with Peterson. Stupid fast slot WR who can kill you deep and is also a weapon in the return game. That is literally the recipe to destroy the Broncos this year.

Notice how 4 of our 5 "maybes" are on the road?

Now lets look at KC's "maybes"

Minnesota - home at Arrowhead. Strength v. strength but KC is without Charles. If Thomas Jones finds a spark at home this could go either way.

@Indy - toss up here, Indy played Pittsburgh hard, KC played SD hard. Who knows how this falls.

Miami - coming to Arrowhead as well. Similar match up as the Vikings.

@Den/Den - Like above, very possible split.

Two of their three out of divisional "maybe" games are at home, the other is their best chance at a win and is a short trip compared to most NFL travel.

See the problem? Its not that we're worse than KC, its that our schedule is the most prohibitive of all the "bad" teams.

And people who think STL losing to Philly, NYG, and Baltimore means they're toast are smoking crack. They played Philly tough for three quarters even without Jackson. They would've beat NYG if it wasn't for young mistakes, and that was without Jackson. Baltimore blew 'em out because no one saw Torey Smith coming, but they've lost to good teams and in two out of three cases represented pretty well. You really think they'll scuffle through like that against the NFC West?

Arkie
09-27-2011, 11:24 AM
NFL “Suck 4 Luck” Power Rankings: Week 4 (http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/09/nfl-suck-4-luck-power-rankings-week-4/)

1. Kansas City Chiefs 0-3
7. Denver Broncos 1-2

Drek
09-27-2011, 11:30 AM
NFL “Suck 4 Luck” Power Rankings: Week 4 (http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/09/nfl-suck-4-luck-power-rankings-week-4/)

1. Kansas City Chiefs 0-3
7. Denver Broncos 1-2

That article shows no awareness for scheduling, which is what really matters here. KC, Indy, Miami, J-ville, Cincy, etc. all have games against other teams high up on his list.

The only ones we have are KC twice and Miami where we've got to go cross country into our usual early morning trap game.

We might be a 5-6 win club on talent. We're a 2-3 win club based on schedule. I'll politely consider coaching to be neutral, though what we saw on Sunday makes me think otherwise.

LetsGoBroncos
09-27-2011, 11:34 AM
I feel like there is a group of 8 teams we are better than (KC, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Cincinatti, Miami, St. Louis, Seattle, Carolina) and a group of about 5 teams we are equal to (Tennessee, Cleveland, AZ, SF, Minnesota). With that assumption, there are 13 teams we are better than or equal to which means we are a mediocre team. We aren't as bad as some people like to say, but we aren't good by any means. If we had better QB play, or had a QB that could make plays when the play breaks down (eh em) we would be an average to above average team.

TheDave
09-27-2011, 11:35 AM
Yup. Even if Indy had dumped Marshall Faulk and a pair of firsts... would've been worth it.

And let's be real... We don't have ANY Marshall Faulks on the field.

If they are convinced he is that good, you give the team with the #1 pick a roster, a list of draft picks, and ask them to give the reciept to andrew... we'll get it whe he gets to dove valley.

;D

TonyR
09-27-2011, 11:37 AM
We might be a 5-6 win club on talent. We're a 2-3 win club based on schedule.

You're starting to convince me. Should I be happy or sad about this?!?

spdirty
09-27-2011, 11:46 AM
Just lose the next 13 so we don't have to worry about it.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 11:48 AM
You're starting to convince me. Should I be happy or sad about this?!?

I'm sad about it. There's literally zero reason we shouldn't be competing for a title this season.

WolfpackGuy
09-27-2011, 11:55 AM
I'm sad about it. There's literally zero reason we shouldn't be competing for a title this season.

Agreed...

Victor
09-27-2011, 11:57 AM
University of Minnesota Golden Gophers are probably worse than the Broncos.

Stagger Lee
09-27-2011, 12:05 PM
University of Minnesota Golden Gophers are probably worse than the Broncos.

A golden gopher can outrun a (pocket) sloth though.

Eldorado
09-27-2011, 12:08 PM
I'm sad about it. There's literally zero reason we shouldn't be competing for a title this season.

Division title.

vancejohnson82
09-27-2011, 12:09 PM
anyone find it funny that it seems like we get Indy every single year.....

except this year, when we might have had a chance to beat them

epicSocialism4tw
09-27-2011, 12:09 PM
anyone find it funny that it seems like we get Indy every single year.....

except this year, when we might have had a chance to beat them

Ha!

I thought the exact same thing yesterday.

Drek
09-27-2011, 12:17 PM
You're starting to convince me. Should I be happy or sad about this?!?

I don't know. I'm just frustrated by it.

The FO spent a lot of this off-season talking about sweeping changes in organizational philosophy, a true changing of the guard, etc. etc. Specifically singling out a better running game and fixing the interior of the DL.

Then when the league opens for business we proceed to do jack ****.

This FO literally couldn't wait to point the finger for everything bad at McDaniels, blaming everything on him almost the very day he left the building. But then we keep his puppet QB without the puppet master to pull his strings and repeat what I view as his biggest mistakes all over the roster.

Zero competition or depth on the OL. An old retread at RB to replace the old retreads McDaniels backed Moreno up with. No depth in the secondary. Starting one dimensional guys at key positions when outside veteran options would be better from day one.

Competing this year was a real possibility. Dump Orton, even if you get nothing back. Invest in the only young, proven DTs to hit the market in years by signing two of Mebane, Cofield, and Jenkins. Still trade for Bunkley because that was the one good move they made.

Sign not one but two backs to rotate with Moreno and get some younger guys. Jason Snelling is a solid back and he stayed in ATL with no real chance to play behind Turner. Jerrious Norwood went to St. Louis to be a 3rd back, why didn't we strike while the iron was hot there? Not game changers but solid guys for sure.

Go get yourself Jonathan Joseph to give a younger, high level corner opposite Champ so that Goodman isn't asked to be a starter.

Sign Kirk Morrison or Lofa Tatupu, both are a massive upgrade over Mays' wildly inconsistent play in the middle and would add a veteran game caller to the middle of our club. Both are more familiar with calling the plays and running a D in the 4-3 than anyone else on our team. Morrison waited weeks before catching on with Buffalo, Tatupu is still unsigned.

Add veteran depth in Mawae at C to help school Walton. An injury plagued but talented OT in Jared Gaither for pennies. A proven but physically worn out C/OG in Andre Gurode when Dallas released him. Put those guys on the roster, have them compete with Beadles, Walton, Franklin, etc., and when the young guys win the jobs because they're younger and more physically capable we know our second tier, these vets, can give us a game or two of mistake free football here and there to patch over potential injuries.

Do all that, put Tebow in at QB in an offense similar to what Carolina put together for Cam Newton (ton of shotgun, lot of two TE, 1 RB sets to protect him) and let him make plays happen. The defense would be worlds better, for sure.

We could have done all of that with the $25M in cap room we never spent and that isn't even adding back the $9M we've blown on Orton.

This team should be 3-0 with momentum carrying them into Green Bay. Instead they're already moping in the locker room. All this team is waiting for is a decisive blowout to finally throw in the towel. Who better to provide that than the defending SB champs?

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 12:35 PM
I don't know. I'm just frustrated by it.

The FO spent a lot of this off-season talking about sweeping changes in organizational philosophy, a true changing of the guard, etc. etc. Specifically singling out a better running game and fixing the interior of the DL.

Then when the league opens for business we proceed to do jack ****.

This FO literally couldn't wait to point the finger for everything bad at McDaniels, blaming everything on him almost the very day he left the building. But then we keep his puppet QB without the puppet master to pull his strings and repeat what I view as his biggest mistakes all over the roster.

Zero competition or depth on the OL. An old retread at RB to replace the old retreads McDaniels backed Moreno up with. No depth in the secondary. Starting one dimensional guys at key positions when outside veteran options would be better from day one.

Competing this year was a real possibility. Dump Orton, even if you get nothing back. Invest in the only young, proven DTs to hit the market in years by signing two of Mebane, Cofield, and Jenkins. Still trade for Bunkley because that was the one good move they made.

Sign not one but two backs to rotate with Moreno and get some younger guys. Jason Snelling is a solid back and he stayed in ATL with no real chance to play behind Turner. Jerrious Norwood went to St. Louis to be a 3rd back, why didn't we strike while the iron was hot there? Not game changers but solid guys for sure.

Go get yourself Jonathan Joseph to give a younger, high level corner opposite Champ so that Goodman isn't asked to be a starter.

Sign Kirk Morrison or Lofa Tatupu, both are a massive upgrade over Mays' wildly inconsistent play in the middle and would add a veteran game caller to the middle of our club. Both are more familiar with calling the plays and running a D in the 4-3 than anyone else on our team. Morrison waited weeks before catching on with Buffalo, Tatupu is still unsigned.

Add veteran depth in Mawae at C to help school Walton. An injury plagued but talented OT in Jared Gaither for pennies. A proven but physically worn out C/OG in Andre Gurode when Dallas released him. Put those guys on the roster, have them compete with Beadles, Walton, Franklin, etc., and when the young guys win the jobs because they're younger and more physically capable we know our second tier, these vets, can give us a game or two of mistake free football here and there to patch over potential injuries.

Do all that, put Tebow in at QB in an offense similar to what Carolina put together for Cam Newton (ton of shotgun, lot of two TE, 1 RB sets to protect him) and let him make plays happen. The defense would be worlds better, for sure.

We could have done all of that with the $25M in cap room we never spent and that isn't even adding back the $9M we've blown on Orton.

This team should be 3-0 with momentum carrying them into Green Bay. Instead they're already moping in the locker room. All this team is waiting for is a decisive blowout to finally throw in the towel. Who better to provide that than the defending SB champs?

^

That but I would've gone for Poz over Morrison/Tatupu any day of the week

hambone13
09-27-2011, 01:10 PM
Jay Cutler isnt going to last long behind that line.

Chicago is going to kill us and Jay will have a lot to do with it even if Champ is back. Our secondary blows.

epicSocialism4tw
09-27-2011, 01:13 PM
I don't know. I'm just frustrated by it.

The FO spent a lot of this off-season talking about sweeping changes in organizational philosophy, a true changing of the guard, etc. etc. Specifically singling out a better running game and fixing the interior of the DL.

Then when the league opens for business we proceed to do jack ****.

This FO literally couldn't wait to point the finger for everything bad at McDaniels, blaming everything on him almost the very day he left the building. But then we keep his puppet QB without the puppet master to pull his strings and repeat what I view as his biggest mistakes all over the roster.

Zero competition or depth on the OL. An old retread at RB to replace the old retreads McDaniels backed Moreno up with. No depth in the secondary. Starting one dimensional guys at key positions when outside veteran options would be better from day one.

Competing this year was a real possibility. Dump Orton, even if you get nothing back. Invest in the only young, proven DTs to hit the market in years by signing two of Mebane, Cofield, and Jenkins. Still trade for Bunkley because that was the one good move they made.

Sign not one but two backs to rotate with Moreno and get some younger guys. Jason Snelling is a solid back and he stayed in ATL with no real chance to play behind Turner. Jerrious Norwood went to St. Louis to be a 3rd back, why didn't we strike while the iron was hot there? Not game changers but solid guys for sure.

Go get yourself Jonathan Joseph to give a younger, high level corner opposite Champ so that Goodman isn't asked to be a starter.

Sign Kirk Morrison or Lofa Tatupu, both are a massive upgrade over Mays' wildly inconsistent play in the middle and would add a veteran game caller to the middle of our club. Both are more familiar with calling the plays and running a D in the 4-3 than anyone else on our team. Morrison waited weeks before catching on with Buffalo, Tatupu is still unsigned.

Add veteran depth in Mawae at C to help school Walton. An injury plagued but talented OT in Jared Gaither for pennies. A proven but physically worn out C/OG in Andre Gurode when Dallas released him. Put those guys on the roster, have them compete with Beadles, Walton, Franklin, etc., and when the young guys win the jobs because they're younger and more physically capable we know our second tier, these vets, can give us a game or two of mistake free football here and there to patch over potential injuries.

Do all that, put Tebow in at QB in an offense similar to what Carolina put together for Cam Newton (ton of shotgun, lot of two TE, 1 RB sets to protect him) and let him make plays happen. The defense would be worlds better, for sure.

We could have done all of that with the $25M in cap room we never spent and that isn't even adding back the $9M we've blown on Orton.

This team should be 3-0 with momentum carrying them into Green Bay. Instead they're already moping in the locker room. All this team is waiting for is a decisive blowout to finally throw in the towel. Who better to provide that than the defending SB champs?

This post is a hit. Like Soul Glo, only less likely to get smeared on couches.

epicSocialism4tw
09-27-2011, 01:13 PM
Chicago is going to kill us and Jay will have a lot to do with it even if Champ is back. Our secondary blows.

We'll see about that.

hambone13
09-27-2011, 01:17 PM
Kansas City - Horrible team. Might actually be worse than us. More consistent on defense though. If Jones and McCluster find a spark they could surprise.

Miami - Better than us. Better OL, more cohesive defense, better #1 RB. We also play them @Miami, we always suck going east for what will likely be an early game.

Cincinatti - We barely scratched out a win over them. Dalton and AJ Green look like a match up that could blow up on someone. They still have Indy, another game in the Cleve, and the three worst NFC West teams on the docket. I'd expect their final record to be better than ours.

Indy sans Melonhead - Painter showed some fight against Pittsburgh. Wayne, Clark, etc. are all still there. I wouldn't be surprised if they throw some late season surprises on people.

Seattle - Bad team playing in a bad division. I'd expect roughly a split in division play, so three wins.

Minnesota - MUCH better team than Denver. Solid DL with some play makers, solid LBs, Peterson is still a beast, Harvin will get his big games in here and there. McNabb isn't all that impressive but with Peterson he doesn't have to be. They barely lost to San Diego and Detroit, they'll throw a beating on some Arizona and us, when each team goes to Minny. @KC and @CAR are probably wins too.

Carolina - Have the same number of wins as us and played better teams on the way there. Still have games against AZ, TEN, Indy. Wouldn't be surprised to see Cam + Steve Smith go off on ATL, TB, or NO one of these weeks and steal a game.

Jacksonville - Still have games against CAR, CLE, TEN, and 2xIndy. Gabbert will get better as the season goes on, MJD is an X Factor guy who can steal a game.

St. Louis - Losses against PHI, NYG, and BAL doesn't tell you much. This team is young and has put up yardage on some solid defenses this year sans-Steven Jackson. Worst of their schedule is behind them and at worst a split of the division is highly likely.

Arizona - Bad team but they've got a bell cow back, an all word WR, and a QB who can get him the ball. In their division a split is very possible. Wouldn't be surprised to see the Kolb/Fitz combo steal a game or two here and there as well.

Cleveland - Hillis and Hardesty are a good 1/2 punch, Colt McCoy is a much better QB than we have in Orton, just working through a new system. I'd bet on them finishing the season fairly strong under Shurmur.

Chicago - They won a tough division last year. They aren't real good but they'll take wins away from people out of division, at least enough to get close to .500 and no where near our final record.

San Franny - another NFC West team, likely division split. They finally went to Vernon Davis this weekend and got a win over Cincy by more than we beat them by. Their defense is legit. If Gore can stay healthy or Hunter proves himself a very good #2 option (highly likely) they could make some noise as they settle in under Harbaugh.

As for the Broncos, I don't see a win on our schedule until week 10, going into KC. We generally have sucked there so I doubt that is even guaranteed. Does anyone think we're stealing games from GB, DET, NE, or 2x SD? Chicago is definitely better than us. Minnesota is better than us and matches up against our weaknesses perfectly, plus we go there. We've always sucked going cross country for early games, which we do against Miami. Buffalo looks like a tough club right now and matches up with our biggest weaknesses, not to mention its another flight cross country for an early game.

Seriously. Our remaining out of division home games are Jets, Bears, Pats. Thats 0-3 right there. Our out of division road games are GB, Minny, MIA, BUF. We're lucky to go 1-3. Oakland crushed us worse than the final score indicated at home, you really think we're winning in Oakland? SD is actually winning games early. That is a bad sign for the rest of this division. Likely two beatings right there.

Face it, this team went 4-12 last year with four games against the NFC West. You really think that we're going to swap NFC West for NFC North and do better? Our best hopes were the other "worst v. worst" matchups against division worst teams last year. We're 1-1 in those right now with another asking us to travel cross country for an early game, and the last against Buffalo who look pretty damn good and get us in a cross country early game as well.

We're getting destroyed this year. Embrace it.

It sucks to have to be a Debbie Downer but this post is spot on other than Chicago could be 9-7/10-6 and get a wild card. They're D and special teams are turn-over specialists. Not to mention, they're OL looked much improved against the Pack which I expected to destroy them.

Hercules Rockefeller
09-27-2011, 01:17 PM
That's just such a dog**** excuse and you know it.

Rebuilding means reBUILDING. It doesn't mean "Quit"

Are you saying it doesnt bother you at all that we ignored the opportunity to grab a few building blocks towards actually rebuilding?

In 3 games we have 0 INTs despite having a DC and HC that are former secondary guys. Joseph has 2 by himself. And Cofield has helped turn Washington into one of the best D's in the NFL.

And both are YOUNG. Not even in their prime yet. In positions of GREAT need and at extremely reasonable price tags.

But who cares when we can lose more games right? Sounds awesome.

Oh bull****.

I know you and all the other Internet GMs wished they spent to the cap, but the team wasn't making the playoffs as much as your MMQB'ing thinks they would if they signed X, Y, and Z player.

This is Year 1 of rebuilding. People need to learn to ****ing deal with it because this place is infested with people who are actually shocked that this team sucks balls, and it'll probably suck balls again next year too. That's what happens when a team is rebuilding. Last year wasn't a rebuilding year because they didn't go into the season thinking they would finish tied for the 2nd worst record in the league.

How many times did Elway say before the lockout that this team was going to be built through the draft?

As much you guys ****ing hate it, you don't go out and sign a large number of FAs on a non-playoff team, when you still won't make the playoffs and all it results in is a lower pick. That's the same **** this team had done for a decade, a borderline playoff team that would either miss the playoffs or get bounced in the 1st round, and you end up with picks in the middle of the round and you're praying you get lucky.

hambone13
09-27-2011, 01:22 PM
I don't quite agree with all your takes on the various teams, but I do agree the overall point of your post. We are screwed. Doubly so as long as Orton remains our starter.

Nobody really cares what you think. It's painful to even respond to you because it gets nowhere to do so but occasionally I have to suck it up because I do agree with some of what you fight for. The uninspiring part is that you never have anything unique to say. It's just repetitive jack-ass comments that weaken your take more and more every time. You don't need to respond to everything, every time. We know how you feel.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 01:24 PM
Oh bull****.

I know you and all the other Internet GMs wished they spent to the cap, but the team wasn't making the playoffs as much as your MMQB'ing thinks they would if they signed X, Y, and Z player.

This is Year 1 of rebuilding. People need to learn to ****ing deal with it because this place is infested with people who are actually shocked that this team sucks balls, and it'll probably suck balls again next year too. That's what happens when a team is rebuilding. Last year wasn't a rebuilding year because they didn't go into the season thinking they would finish tied for the 2nd worst record in the league.

How many times did Elway say before the lockout that this team was going to be built through the draft?

As much you guys ****ing hate it, you don't go out and sign a large number of FAs on a non-playoff team, when you still won't make the playoffs and all it results in is a lower pick. That's the same **** this team had done for a decade, a borderline playoff team that would either miss the playoffs or get bounced in the 1st round, and you end up with picks in the middle of the round and you're praying you get lucky.

Once again "rebuilding" is an action verb. It doesn't mean "sit idle and don't do ****". It means proactively re-****ing-build.

No one said "spend to cap".

People HAVE said fill some holes with young talent that was available thanks to a flukie season.

...but hey, "we weren't going to the playoffs so we might as well set this team back even further!" right?

Seriously a disgusting attitude.

hambone13
09-27-2011, 01:48 PM
Once again "rebuilding" is an action verb. It doesn't mean "sit idle and don't do ****". It means proactively re-****ing-build.

No one said "spend to cap".

People HAVE said fill some holes with young talent that was available thanks to a flukie season.

...but hey, "we weren't going to the playoffs so we might as well set this team back even further!" right?

Seriously a disgusting attitude.

I couldn't agree more. Herc is always one of the Homers that goes with the talking heads, pulls the "better fan" card and can't deal with the realities of truly ****ty decisions. The best thing about Shanny, despite his weaknesses in drafting or maintaining good defense, at least gave us the chance to win. When a class act like Eddie Mac comes out and says, "Where's the Tebow package?", like he did on The Ticket this morning, I don't know how to feel more justified.

Drek
09-27-2011, 01:49 PM
^

That but I would've gone for Poz over Morrison/Tatupu any day of the week

Sure, in a heartbeat. But I chose Morrison and Tatupu because Morrison sat unsigned for weeks after Jacksonville replaced him with Posluszny and Tatupu is still unsigned as far as I know.

We could have had either one at any point up to the start of pre-season for pennies and instead of starting Joe Mays in the middle and having no one with real experience making the calls we could have had a proven vet and bumped Mays over to SOLB to be Miller's backup.

The highlights of Mays career come when he's blitzing. Run blitz or pass blitz, if you take him completely out of your coverage scheme and tell him to go hit somebody really hard he looks like a beast. When you ask him to cover someone or basically do any kind of thinking he suddenly becomes very bad.

alkemical
09-27-2011, 01:51 PM
Sure, in a heartbeat. But I chose Morrison and Tatupu because Morrison sat unsigned for weeks after Jacksonville replaced him with Posluszny and Tatupu is still unsigned as far as I know.

We could have had either one at any point up to the start of pre-season for pennies and instead of starting Joe Mays in the middle and having no one with real experience making the calls we could have had a proven vet and bumped Mays over to SOLB to be Miller's backup.

The highlights of Mays career come when he's blitzing. Run blitz or pass blitz, if you take him completely out of your coverage scheme and tell him to go hit somebody really hard he looks like a beast. When you ask him to cover someone or basically do any kind of thinking he suddenly becomes very bad.

I said on the Joe Mays thread:

"He's the typical Eagles MLB - a guy who plays downhill between the tackles"

TonyR
09-27-2011, 01:57 PM
...Tatupu is still unsigned as far as I know.


He is, and he must be completely washed up because teams like the Eagles and Giants need LB's and I haven't heard that they've considered him either. Weird, the guy is relatively young and a 3 time Pro Bowler. I think his knees might be shot, but isn't he worth a 1 yr conditional contract? I don't get it.

hambone13
09-27-2011, 01:59 PM
We'll see about that.

Chicago's D is opportunistic. Julius Peppers will light Orton up from the locker room. He might fall down out of the tunnel.

If Doom and Von are back and healthy for this game, we might have a chance but like it or not, Jay's mobility and arm will be a serious burden on our secondary. Additionally, we haven't shown to be effective against the screen. Forte is a serious threat in that arena. He'll likely light us up for 150+ against our backers. We don't do well with shifty backs who can catch the ball in space off of solid routes.

It would be nice to win that game but I don't see the match up as being as optimistic as you do. Frankly, you've said nothing that implies we can even be in the game other than your opinion that we will.

Hercules Rockefeller
09-27-2011, 03:21 PM
Once again "rebuilding" is an action verb. It doesn't mean "sit idle and don't do ****". It means proactively re-****ing-build.

No one said "spend to cap".

People HAVE said fill some holes with young talent that was available thanks to a flukie season.

...but hey, "we weren't going to the playoffs so we might as well set this team back even further!" right?

Seriously a disgusting attitude.

And exactly how is this team set back further by signing free agents that make them go 6-10 instead of 2-14 or 3-13? So they draft lower in the 1st round and miss out on Luck, Barkley, Jones or whoever? Yeah. It's really setting this team back further by putting them in position to draft a QB.

Hercules Rockefeller
09-27-2011, 03:28 PM
I couldn't agree more. Herc is always one of the Homers that goes with the talking heads, pulls the "better fan" card and can't deal with the realities of truly ****ty decisions. The best thing about Shanny, despite his weaknesses in drafting or maintaining good defense, at least gave us the chance to win. When a class act like Eddie Mac comes out and says, "Where's the Tebow package?", like he did on The Ticket this morning, I don't know how to feel more justified.

Help me out, what talking heads do I agree with exactly? I must have missed it.

When did Shanny give this team a chance to win over his last 3 seasons? They were subject to some epic blowouts by some pretty ****ty teams during that time period. He had 52 dropped on him with the playoffs on the line in his last game here. 52. But if you were happy with having a borderline playoff team that had 0 chance to advance, more power to you. I guess that makes me a homer because I think the team has needed to rebuild for years.

Mountain Bronco
09-27-2011, 03:31 PM
We won't get Luck, lets all get over that (KC has that locked up along with a new coach), but there are 3 quality QB's and I think if we are in the Top 5 we get one of them or can trade for Bradford (who I think is a quality QB).

For the record I would rather not tank to get one though. I want to see a competitive team.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 04:17 PM
And exactly how is this team set back further by signing free agents that make them go 6-10 instead of 2-14 or 3-13? So they draft lower in the 1st round and miss out on Luck, Barkley, Jones or whoever? Yeah. It's really setting this team back further by putting them in position to draft a QB.

....Did you really just ask how a team is set back less by winning 2-3x more games?

I mean, are you ****ing kidding me at this point?

spdirty
09-27-2011, 04:31 PM
And exactly how is this team set back further by signing free agents that make them go 6-10 instead of 2-14 or 3-13? So they draft lower in the 1st round and miss out on Luck, Barkley, Jones or whoever? Yeah. It's really setting this team back further by putting them in position to draft a QB.

Unless 5 of those wins come because Tebow proves he is our QBOTF, 6-10 is a disaster compared to 2-14.

Punisher
09-27-2011, 04:38 PM
Who cares we suck will have the 9th pick in the draft and will suck the year after and the year after untill we find a QB or a Top 5 Defense

spdirty
09-27-2011, 04:51 PM
Help me out, what talking heads do I agree with exactly? I must have missed it.

When did Shanny give this team a chance to win over his last 3 seasons? They were subject to some epic blowouts by some pretty ****ty teams during that time period. He had 52 dropped on him with the playoffs on the line in his last game here. 52. But if you were happy with having a borderline playoff team that had 0 chance to advance, more power to you. I guess that makes me a homer because I think the team has needed to rebuild for years.

The offense was already torn down and rebuilt by the end of '08. Where would this team be right now had we dedicated the last 3 years of drafting and FA to defense?

That's what makes me sick. We shouldn't have to go through this. But we are where we are because of the utter pure stupidity of the front office from January '09 to November '10.

And me, as well as a lot of other fans, won't just "get over it" until this ****ing rebuild is complete and we are contenders again.

canadianbroncosfan
09-27-2011, 04:55 PM
We won't get Luck, lets all get over that (KC has that locked up along with a new coach), but there are 3 quality QB's and I think if we are in the Top 5 we get one of them or can trade for Bradford (who I think is a quality QB).

For the record I would rather not tank to get one though. I want to see a competitive team.

Jesus please not Bradford. Don't get me wrong like the guy but it will be the QB controversy all over again. Yeah he'd start but with the same O-Line protecting him and Coach Fox still around, it'll be 2-3 losses before everyone is crying Tebow, wanting to put up billboards and screaming "off with his head". Can't deal with that anymore.

TheDave
09-27-2011, 04:57 PM
Jesus please not Bradford. Don't get me wrong like the guy but it will be the QB controversy all over again. Yeah he'd start but with the same O-Line protecting him and Coach Fox still around, it'll be 2-3 losses before everyone is crying Tebow, wanting to put up billboards and screaming "off with his head". Can't deal with that anymore.

If we go after a QB in the draft, Tebow won't be here

canadianbroncosfan
09-27-2011, 05:02 PM
If we go after a QB in the draft, Tebow won't be here

Oh for sure he wouldn't but if we go after Bradford he may be.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 05:10 PM
...how the eff would Bradford be available?

WTF is going on around here

TheDave
09-27-2011, 05:12 PM
...how the eff would Bradford be available?

WTF is going on around here

Some are convinced the Rams will be #1 and might be tempted to take luck and deal bradford.

canadianbroncosfan
09-27-2011, 05:13 PM
...how the eff would Bradford be available?

WTF is going on around here

He wouldn't, just in response to the other comment. Being hypothetical, like the rest of this thread.

canadianbroncosfan
09-27-2011, 05:14 PM
Some are convinced the Rams will be #1 and might be tempted to take luck and deal bradford.

Some are high, I don't thing the Rams are a playoff team like some pre-season predictions but there are a bunch of teams that will finish worse. KC, Indy, Minnesota

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 05:15 PM
Some are convinced the Rams will be #1 and might be tempted to take luck and deal bradford.

Well we know how great McDaniels is at evaluating QB talent...

TheDave
09-27-2011, 05:16 PM
Well we know how great McDaniels is at evaluating QB talent...

I'm still trying to figure out how he got a job...

elsid13
09-27-2011, 05:23 PM
Some are convinced the Rams will be #1 and might be tempted to take luck and deal bradford.

That not going to happen, Bradford has one of those ridiculous rookie deals and shown flashes of being solid NFL QB. If St. Louis is at #1 spot they are trading down or taking the LT out of U$C

DBroncos4life
09-27-2011, 05:27 PM
Well we know how great McDaniels is at evaluating QB talent...

I hope to god that McD some how lands in KC so they don't draft Luck.

DBroncos4life
09-27-2011, 05:28 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how he got a job...

I'm sure that the Rams fans are asking the samething.

oubronco
09-27-2011, 05:33 PM
We won't get Luck, lets all get over that (KC has that locked up along with a new coach), but there are 3 quality QB's and I think if we are in the Top 5 we get one of them or can trade for Bradford (who I think is a quality QB).

For the record I would rather not tank to get one though. I want to see a competitive team.

:spit: Your fuggin nuts if you think St. Louis is going to trade Bradford

NUB
09-27-2011, 05:33 PM
Orton playing like the chump everyone knows he is, Fox playcalling like it's the 1980s, and a brutal schedule ahead, Denver may be in the running for the worst. As stated (namely by Drek), there are plenty of teams as distraught as Denver, but few have difficult schedules. Furthermore, if the past has any significance here, Orton's play will only degrade as the season drags on; Fox will continue to suck because he's John Fox whose most imaginative playcalls involve throwing bombs to Steve Smith. He is also more likely to ride a sinking ship (Orton) all the way to the bottom of the ocean than any other coach in the league. The defense, which has been surprising so far, will inevitably wear out as it always does. If the offense remains terrible I expect uninspiring football on every side of the ball to close out the season.

TheDave
09-27-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm sure that the Rams fans are asking the samething.

Some are... but you know they have there own McD's Band that just cant see the forest through the trees.

DBroncos4life
09-27-2011, 05:48 PM
Some are... but you know they have there own McD's Band that just cant see the forest through the trees.

Popps and his army of McLoad lovers :thumbsup:

I really don't think McD did a damn thing while at NE. Brady hasn't missed a beat without that piece of ****.

alkemical
09-27-2011, 06:30 PM
....Did you really just ask how a team is set back less by winning 2-3x more games?

I mean, are you ****ing kidding me at this point?

Is this what Fox means when he says: Orton gives us our best chance to win (Luck)....?

WolfpackGuy
09-27-2011, 06:39 PM
:spit: Your fuggin nuts if you think St. Louis is going to trade Bradford

Not even for 2 firsts, a swap of thirds, a fifth, and Bore-ton?

Bore-ton does know the "system"...

LOL

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 06:39 PM
Is this what Fox means when he says: Orton gives us our best chance to win (Luck)....?

It's the only logical conclusion

vancejohnson82
09-27-2011, 07:35 PM
Popps and his army of McLoad lovers :thumbsup:

I really don't think McD did a damn thing while at NE. Brady hasn't missed a beat without that piece of ****.

his amount of championships would disagree

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 07:37 PM
his amount of championships would disagree

As opposed to his amount of championships with him...?

DBroncos4life
09-27-2011, 07:40 PM
his amount of championships would disagree

RIGHT, 2001 Josh was a (Personnel Assistant). 2003 Josh was a (Defensive Coaching Assistant) and in 2004 Josh was a (Quarterbacks Coach). His role in Brady winning is next to nothing. NOTHING.

vancejohnson82
09-27-2011, 07:44 PM
As opposed to his amount of championships with him...?

I'm assuming the number is more than zero???

am i incorrect?

DBroncos4life
09-27-2011, 07:48 PM
I can't believe anyone thinks McD had anything to do with the success of Brady at all. He is trash and after his showing with the Rams this year he will be out of the NFL for good. Too bad it is three years too late.

TheReverend
09-27-2011, 07:50 PM
I'm assuming the number is more than zero???

am i incorrect?

In a meaningful role? Unless you mean AFC championships, then yes, you're wrong.