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View Full Version : Are you not allowed to decline an "Illegal Formation" Penalty??


DeuceOfClub
09-26-2011, 10:52 AM
Am I missing something here?

Titans last possession:
1-10-TEN 38 (1:39) 21-J.Ringer right tackle to TEN 41 for 3 yards (91-R.Ayers). PENALTY on TEN, Illegal Formation, 5 yards, enforced at TEN 38 - No Play.

Why not decline? clock is stopped, and you still have 1 time out left...

Instead:
Now it's 1st and 15 with 1:31 to go (8 sec' less) and game over.

TheReverend
09-26-2011, 10:54 AM
Because there was "no play". It's dead at the snap because it was an illegal formation. There's nothing to decline.

mwill07
09-26-2011, 10:56 AM
Because there was "no play". It's dead at the snap because it was an illegal formation. There's nothing to decline.

it still ran off 8 seconds though...I thought this was odd too...kind of a sneaky way to burn clock without snapping the ball.

TheReverend
09-26-2011, 10:58 AM
it still ran off 8 seconds though...I thought this was odd too...kind of a sneaky way to burn clock without snapping the ball.

Probably wouldve reset it if it meant anything. But alas, those 8 seconds didnt.

DeuceOfClub
09-26-2011, 11:13 AM
From Packers-Bears game yesterday: (1st quarter)

1-10-CHI 25 (12:16) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 80-D.Driver. Penalty on GB-71-J.Sitton, Illegal Formation, declined.

TheReverend
09-26-2011, 11:18 AM
From Packers-Bears game yesterday: (1st quarter)

1-10-CHI 25 (12:16) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 80-D.Driver. Penalty on GB-71-J.Sitton, Illegal Formation, declined.

O_o

I'll be damned! Repped.

ColoradoDarin
09-26-2011, 11:20 AM
Because there was "no play". It's dead at the snap because it was an illegal formation. There's nothing to decline.


I don't think that's true, illegal formation is usually called after the play is over, but the play is allowed to happen.

LetsGoBroncos
09-26-2011, 11:24 AM
Illegal formation does not make the play dead. False start does

DeuceOfClub
09-26-2011, 11:29 AM
I guess I'm not the only one who noticed that BS game management:

http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?p=2122462#p2122464

broncocalijohn
09-26-2011, 02:18 PM
Duece, you win. Unfortunately, we all lost. Didnt register when it happened but time was more important than backing them up (and having them redo the down). Especially when we lost 8 valuable seconds which could have got us a try for a punt block at the least.

ol#7
09-26-2011, 03:45 PM
I did notice during the game but didnt know what the rule was. Thanks for clearing that up. You would think the staff would have someone helping out in that situation.

maven
09-26-2011, 04:00 PM
Am I missing something here?

Titans last possession:
1-10-TEN 38 (1:39) 21-J.Ringer right tackle to TEN 41 for 3 yards (91-R.Ayers). PENALTY on TEN, Illegal Formation, 5 yards, enforced at TEN 38 - No Play.

Why not decline? clock is stopped, and you still have 1 time out left...

Instead:
Now it's 1st and 15 with 1:31 to go (8 sec' less) and game over.

It's funny you mentioned this. I remember watching this and scratching my head as to why we didn't decline the play.

Jekyll15Hyde
09-26-2011, 05:25 PM
Because there was "no play". It's dead at the snap because it was an illegal formation. There's nothing to decline.

You are thinking of false starts. There can be no play in only that situation at least offensively

Bronx33
09-26-2011, 07:04 PM
So our veteran coach screwed the pooch more than once?

Taco John
09-26-2011, 07:07 PM
O_o

I'll be damned! Repped.

That was news to me too. I had always been under the impression that illegal formation was a dead play in the same way that a false start is.

Taco John
09-26-2011, 08:35 PM
The best answer on I've been able to find so far is that an illegal formation is only a foul once the ball is snapped... Thus giving the other team the option to accept or decline.

ColoradoDarin
09-27-2011, 06:48 AM
The best answer on I've been able to find so far is that an illegal formation is only a foul once the ball is snapped... Thus giving the other team the option to accept or decline.

It's like an illegal motion penalty (aka 2 men moving), like you said only a penalty when the ball is snapped.

Gort
09-27-2011, 06:53 AM
So our veteran coach screwed the pooch more than once?

let's hope it doesn't happen too often. i'd hate to find out that Fox is a Dennis Green clone when it comes to being clueless on clock management.

mwill07
09-27-2011, 10:17 AM
let's hope it doesn't happen too often. i'd hate to find out that Fox is a Dennis Green clone when it comes to being clueless on clock management.

That's what the local Carolina folks tell me...their knocks on Fox are:

too loyal to vets, especially QB (Delhomme)
too conservative: Foxball, they call it
poor use of challenges
poor clock management

I think we are seeing all of that all ready. These, IMO, are valid gripes. However, I don't think there is a coach out there who isn't criticized at some point for some of the above.

Guessed
09-28-2011, 08:55 PM
Fox accepted the illegal formation penalty rather than declining it because he thought it gave the team the best chance to win. In all seriousness, I think the earlier call to go for it on 4th down could be argued either way, but failing to decline the illegal formation penalty was a boneheaded mistake on Fox's part, confirming the assessment provided by the Carolina folks asserted by mwill07 above. If they could have forced a 3 and out in that situation (a big if the last few years), the Broncos would have forced a punt with about 40 seconds left had they declined the penalty (forcing a second down) rather than accepting and giving the Titans an extra down and thus burning more clock. I'm curious if Fox was even asked about his reasoning (or lack thereof) for making that call by the press. Or could it be that he didn't want to give Orton another shot to prove his clutchness in last minute situations?

Jay3
09-28-2011, 10:38 PM
Or could it be that he didn't want to give Orton another shot to prove his clutchness in last minute situations?

Seriously, the chances of Orton leading a drive in 40 seconds are about the same as the Titans bobbling a snap as they kneel in victory formation to kill the clock. Fox played it smart for field position. :thumbs:

Guessed
09-29-2011, 07:56 PM
Seriously, the chances of Orton leading a drive in 40 seconds are about the same as the Titans bobbling a snap as they kneel in victory formation to kill the clock. Fox played it smart for field position. :thumbs:

That's what I'm thinking. After seeing his "best" quarterback soil his diapers time and time again in pressure situations, Fox may have thought the team stood a better chance of causing a turnover rather than putting the ball back in Orton's hands.