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View Full Version : there is no "tebow red zone" package in the playbook


tsiguy96
09-26-2011, 07:53 AM
i almost regret the fox hiring at this point, because of this:

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18977269?utm_medium=facebook

But Fox doesn't have a "Tebow Package" for first-and-goal, and obviously doesn't want, like his predecessor, to affect Orton's psyche in these situations.

this guy doesnt even have a set of plays available for a guy to do what he truly does best! its not about putting the best guys on the field or doing what it takes to win anymore, its about ego and playing into the fragile mindset of a QB that has amassed a 6-22 record or something similar!

schaaf
09-26-2011, 07:59 AM
I read last week or heard from tebow during an interview that there was, but that it hasn't been practiced since training camp

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 08:15 AM
Even McD was smart enough to eventually come around of this subject. Tebow generates a six points 100% of the time in goal line situations. By my math, that's like a touchdown almost every single time.

go_broncos
09-26-2011, 08:23 AM
i almost regret the fox hiring at this point, because of this:

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18977269?utm_medium=facebook



this guy doesnt even have a set of plays available for a guy to do what he truly does best! its not about putting the best guys on the field or doing what it takes to win anymore, its about ego and playing into the fragile mindset of a QB that has amassed a 6-22 record or something similar!

I didn't like his hire..Remember how he kept on starting Jake though he sucks.

Hogan11
09-26-2011, 08:26 AM
Fox is the ultra-traditionalist. He runs a ball control, rush oriented offense designed to control the clock and lure defenses and fans to sleep. Tebow packages, wild cats, trickery of almost any kind will be very few and very far between.

That was his way in Carolina, did you really expect him to change his entire philsosphy just because Gator boy is on the roster and his cult is chanting his name after every Orton miscue? C'mon.

CEH
09-26-2011, 08:37 AM
Goofy Elway just said they have a Tebow package just have not found the right time to use it yet.

Duh how about 1st and goal from the 2 to win the game. 4 straight rushes.

These coaches are clueless. Would rather prove a point than win the game

TheReverend
09-26-2011, 08:49 AM
Goofy Elway just said they have a Tebow package just have not found the right time to use it yet.

Duh how about 1st and goal from the 2 to win the game. 4 straight rushes.

These coaches are clueless. Would rather prove a point than win the game

:spit:

Jay3
09-26-2011, 08:54 AM
I read last week or heard from tebow during an interview that there was, but that it hasn't been practiced since training camp

I saw that, too, but I read Tebow's careful wording to mean they didn't practice it in training camp. They're technically in the playbook, but they haven't repped them this season.

I think we can forget about it.

jhns
09-26-2011, 08:58 AM
Screw the bench Orton billboard. We need a, "Fire Fox, Xanders, and Ellis" billboard. Giving away games with such amateur calls and because of ego is unacceptable at this level. Starting Orton alone should get them fired. Not using Tebow even in the red zone, while the team struggles there, is even worse. Not kicking that field goal is just as bad as the Tebow/Orton thing. This team may have just hired two of the leagues worst coaches back to back.

robbieopperude
09-26-2011, 09:29 AM
The Master Plan is in affect. Have Orton lead us to yet another 6 win season so we can continue to improve our D. Like I said in a different post it is to bad there isn't any difference makers at DT in this years class. I would much prefer to see us go 8-8 and get a pick between 12-16 and take one of 3 MLB's that look like they are coming out this year. Burfict from Ariz St. would be perfect for us.

broncocalijohn
09-26-2011, 09:30 AM
Fox is the ultra-traditionalist. He runs a ball control, rush oriented offense designed to control the clock and lure defenses and fans to sleep. Tebow packages, wild cats, trickery of almost any kind will be very few and very far between.

That was his way in Carolina, did you really expect him to change his entire philsosphy just because Gator boy is on the roster and his cult is chanting his name after every Orton miscue? C'mon.

I guess he can keep the same old playbook that also got him canned in Carolina. Time to move with the times and he is not doing it. He has a chance to run a few plays a game to possibly be the difference of a win and a loss and he goes the old school way. Sorry but Orton, for whatever reason lately, can't perform at the goalline. It could be more the running backs and OL fault but at least we have someone that can work with the problem and be a solution. But you keep hating for the chance for wins based on him being a school rival. This is professional football, not SEC football so let it go.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 09:31 AM
The Master Plan is in affect. Have Orton lead us to yet another 6 win season so we can continue to improve our D. Like I said in a different post it is to bad there isn't any difference makers at DT in this years class. I would much prefer to see us go 8-8 and get a pick between 12-16 and take one of 3 MLB's that look like they are coming out this year. Burfict from Ariz St. would be perfect for us.

You are high as a kite if you think Orton can win 6 games this year.

LetsGoBroncos
09-26-2011, 09:31 AM
The thing that is SO DUMB about the 4th down play yesterday is if we were just going to run up the middle you could have put Tebow in to hand it off and that would have caused the Titans to worry about him rolling out.

Stupid

Chris
09-26-2011, 09:32 AM
This organisation needs to get its thinking out of the Jurassic period

Jesterhole
09-26-2011, 09:34 AM
Fox and Elway have already decided to not give Tebow a chance.

broncocalijohn
09-26-2011, 09:37 AM
The thing that is SO DUMB about the 4th down play yesterday is if we were just going to run up the middle you could have put Tebow in to hand it off and that would have caused the Titans to worry about him rolling out.

Stupid

i believe i posted that somewhere here (or stated it at the bar). Tebow can hand off a ball. When he is in, they need to leave linebackers or a secondary player more on the outside just in case he bolts to the outside. That opens a crack in the middle to possible score. I guess if two guys on the internet states it is possible, probably we just don't know **** and should let Fox be the Know it all.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 09:38 AM
The thing that is SO DUMB about the 4th down play yesterday is if we were just going to run up the middle you could have put Tebow in to hand it off and that would have caused the Titans to worry about him rolling out.

Stupid

This is an interesting point. Even if Tebow just handed off to McGahee four times straight, it probably works. He has to be accounted for. Orton does not.

ColoradoDarin
09-26-2011, 09:42 AM
"X Player gives us the best chance to win" - John Fox


So how does that go with:
Orton's psyche > best chance to win by playing Jumbo Jesus package?

Jay3
09-26-2011, 09:43 AM
This is an interesting point. Even if Tebow just handed off to McGahee four times straight, it probably works. He has to be accounted for. Orton does not.

That's one of the whole points of Tebow. Change "goal line" to "first down marker" and he affects the defense all the time. Even when he doesn't run it, he helps. Cam Newton has a similar effect.

bendog
09-26-2011, 09:46 AM
This is an interesting point. Even if Tebow just handed off to McGahee four times straight, it probably works. He has to be accounted for. Orton does not.

That assumes Tebow can hand off. The whole thing is irrelevant because if we're looking at 1-4, they'll have to put Tebow in, even if they think Orton still gives the team a better shot at winning, or the fans will go nuts. There's not going to be a "Tebow package," but Elway was pretty good at the qb sneak. We'll find out pretty soon if the kid has any chance of making it in a traditional NFL set.

And remember, McDouche never put Tebow in.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 09:50 AM
That assumes Tebow can hand off. The whole thing is irrelevant because if we're looking at 1-4, they'll have to put Tebow in, even if they think Orton still gives the team a better shot at winning, or the fans will go nuts. There's not going to be a "Tebow package," but Elway was pretty good at the qb sneak. We'll find out pretty soon if the kid has any chance of making it in a traditional NFL set.

And remember, McDouche never put Tebow in.

Am I missing your sarcasm?

McD clearly stated that a Tebow goal-line package was a stupid idea. This, after going 0-5 in the RZ vs Indy. He changed his mind mid season, and it worked everyfuggintime.

Pendejo
09-26-2011, 09:51 AM
The thing that is SO DUMB about the 4th down play yesterday is if we were just going to run up the middle you could have put Tebow in to hand it off and that would have caused the Titans to worry about him rolling out.

Stupid

They can't do that. How would it look if they pulled their starting quarterback in the red zone because he's inept? They've fed us the line that Orton gives them the best chance to win. Hasn't Elway espoused the fact that third downs and getting it done in the red zone are where quarterbacks earn their keep? They can't roll Tebow out in goal line packages until they're ready to make the move to him. Orton's ego is clearly as fragile as his play, and if Tebow continues his domination at the goal line...the fanbase won't allow the Donks to make the decision to keep playing Orton. If you think it's bad for Kyle now...just let Tebow enjoy some success on the field.

Orton is a gawd damned albatross.

jhns
09-26-2011, 09:53 AM
That assumes Tebow can hand off. The whole thing is irrelevant because if we're looking at 1-4, they'll have to put Tebow in, even if they think Orton still gives the team a better shot at winning, or the fans will go nuts. There's not going to be a "Tebow package," but Elway was pretty good at the qb sneak. We'll find out pretty soon if the kid has any chance of making it in a traditional NFL set.

And remember, McDouche never put Tebow in.

You sure love proving what an idiot you are. Why do you come here when you clearly don't watch the Broncos?

Two facts show that you don't watch this team. 1) McDaniels did put Tebow in. 2) This offense scored every time he did.

Now troll somewhere else raiders fan.

HILife
09-26-2011, 09:56 AM
Even McD was smart enough to eventually come around of this subject. Tebow generates a six points 100% of the time in goal line situations. By my math, that's like a touchdown almost every single time.

Orton generates six points on 100% of the goal line situations too. He only needs two FGs to do it.

bendog
09-26-2011, 09:58 AM
I don't like Orton, but it was the oline. If the team can't put it in on 4 shots, it's the oline. It would be nice to have a qb who could roll out though.

jhns
09-26-2011, 10:00 AM
I don't like Orton, but it was the oline. If the team can't put it in on 4 shots, it's the oline. It would be nice to have a qb who could roll out though.

You don't like Orton but you will throw a decent pass blocking line under the bus to defend him? That sure makes sense...

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 10:04 AM
Orton generates six points on 100% of the goal line situations too. He only needs two FGs to do it.

You had to go all fancy algebraic geometry on me.

Gort
09-26-2011, 10:34 AM
Even McD was smart enough to eventually come around of this subject. Tebow generates a six points 100% of the time in goal line situations. By my math, that's like a touchdown almost every single time.

John Fox says you can take your degree in math and stick it where blart likes it.

Gort
09-26-2011, 10:36 AM
Orton is a gawd damned albatross.

it's a good thing Orton doesn't play to impress the fans, huh?

55CrushEm
09-26-2011, 10:37 AM
Tebow generates a six points 100% of the time in goal line situations. By my math, that's like a touchdown almost every single time.

LOL

Gort
09-26-2011, 10:38 AM
Am I missing your sarcasm?

McD clearly stated that a Tebow goal-line package was a stupid idea. This, after going 0-5 in the RZ vs Indy. He changed his mind mid season, and it worked everyfuggintime.

he changed his mind because he got tired of being pestered at news conferences about using Tebow, IIRC.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 10:39 AM
John Fox says you can take your degree in math and stick it where blart likes it.

In his fartbox dong receptacle?

bronco militia
09-26-2011, 10:40 AM
In his fartbox dong receptacle?

just what the hell kind of Dr. are you?

:spit::spit:

55CrushEm
09-26-2011, 10:40 AM
Goofy Elway just said they have a Tebow package just have not found the right time to use it yet.

Duh how about 1st and goal from the 2 to win the game. 4 straight rushes.

These coaches are clueless. Would rather prove a point than win the game

Yeah....those 4 straight rushes from inside the 5......that got me infuriated. And yes, there is little question that with Tebow we would have scored from inside the 5 with 4 chances at it.

I really don't know whether to laugh, cry or destroy something.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 10:42 AM
just what the hell kind of Dr. are you?

:spit::spit:

It was either that or his piehole dong receptacle.

TheReverend
09-26-2011, 10:45 AM
just what the hell kind of Dr. are you?

:spit::spit:

...The best kind?

Rabb
09-26-2011, 10:45 AM
Yeah....those 4 straight rushes from inside the 5......that got me infuriated. And yes, there is little question that with Tebow we would have scored from inside the 5 with 4 chances at it.

I really don't know whether to laugh, cry or destroy something.

I appreciate guys like Orton and Kuper wanting to go for it there, but so far there has only been one guy on this team that I can remember asking for the ball when it matters and making it happen.

How that one guy hasn't proven to the coaches he can score at will in that situation is beyond me. Part of me is falling into some mindset that the staff is actually leaving Orton in until the season is lost to have the excuse with the vets on the team to bench him.

And don't get me wrong here, I just want a winner in there and I don't care who it is. I think it's pretty clear at this point who it's not, however.

The Moops
09-26-2011, 10:59 AM
Of course there isn't a Tebow redzone package. That would involve Fox actually adapting his schemes to the talent around him.

Steve Sewell
09-26-2011, 11:02 AM
Even McD was smart enough to eventually come around of this subject. Tebow generates a six points 100% of the time in goal line situations. By my math, that's like a touchdown almost every single time.

Are you saying that Tebow seemingly generates a TD every time in a goal to go situation?

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 11:05 AM
Are you saying that Tebow seemingly generates a TD every time in a goal to go situation?

I'm still running the calculations to be precisely sure. But the computer models to date indicate this is the most likely scenario.

bendog
09-26-2011, 11:06 AM
Does anyone know of ANY nfl team who had a designated goal line qb? Ever?

And the problem with Tebow is that in camp he was having trouble taking the snap under center. It's not going to help the running game if the qb hasn't mastered taking the snap and handing off. The kid's gonna get in prolly in Sept, and he'll have had three months to work on it. The team sucks cause it's got bad personnel. Enjoy the game of the week and NCAA and try not to stroke out over it.

DBroncos4life
09-26-2011, 11:10 AM
i almost regret the fox hiring at this point, because of this:

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18977269?utm_medium=facebook



this guy doesnt even have a set of plays available for a guy to do what he truly does best! its not about putting the best guys on the field or doing what it takes to win anymore, its about ego and playing into the fragile mindset of a QB that has amassed a 6-22 record or something similar!

WHAT HOW DARE YOU!!!! You turn on a coach for this BUT, defend the "coach" that lied, gutted the team of talent, and pissed off over half the fan base in less then a few months of being hired :rofl:Hilarious!Ha!LOL:giggle:

Steve Sewell
09-26-2011, 11:12 AM
Does anyone know of ANY nfl team who had a designated goal line qb? Ever?

And the problem with Tebow is that in camp he was having trouble taking the snap under center. It's not going to help the running game if the qb hasn't mastered taking the snap and handing off. The kid's gonna get in prolly in Sept, and he'll have had three months to work on it. The team sucks cause it's got bad personnel. Enjoy the game of the week and NCAA and try not to stroke out over it.

Yeah, the 2010 Broncos had a designated goal line QB. Did you watch any games last season?

He doesn't need to be under center, btw.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/53DOzBwmdw0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

rbackfactory80
09-26-2011, 11:35 AM
Truth is Fox does not like Tebow as a QB. Fox thought he was a good enough football coach to steer this team to around 500 this year and that alone would shut up the fans. If he keeps Tim on the bench, he thinks he could make a big trade next year. These guys are trying to put together a package for Luck, that much is obvious. It's working too! Orton will leave us with a top 10 pick if he remains starter and we should be able to move around from there. To us Fox looks like a fool. I think their plan is working to them though.

Just think if the Colts have the first pick next year. Are they taking Luck? Or are they taking a gigantic package from us?

If it was me and I was a coach that cared about THIS SEASON, I would let Orton get his ass railed this week, which he will, and put in Tim at home week 5 against the Chargers.

broncocalijohn
09-26-2011, 11:54 AM
Does anyone know of ANY nfl team who had a designated goal line qb? Ever?

And the problem with Tebow is that in camp he was having trouble taking the snap under center. It's not going to help the running game if the qb hasn't mastered taking the snap and handing off. The kid's gonna get in prolly in Sept, and he'll have had three months to work on it. The team sucks cause it's got bad personnel. Enjoy the game of the week and NCAA and try not to stroke out over it.

If not, someone can be so why not us? We did it last year with great success. There are only a handful of plays for this situation and if Tebow had trouble in training camp, this situation is much different. We aren't asking him to drive from our 20 yard line and have a ton of different wide receiver/offensive formations. You can use the same GL formation for the downs. Please dont make excuses like we saw from the McD apologists. We have a weapon that works to improve our scoring more than 50% (7 points compared to 3 points) if successful. Sure it won't work everytime and Orton can actually score in that situation every once in awhile but what we saw yesterday is what we have seen since 2009. No more thank you.

broncocalijohn
09-26-2011, 11:57 AM
i almost regret the fox hiring at this point, because of this:

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18977269?utm_medium=facebook



this guy doesnt even have a set of plays available for a guy to do what he truly does best! its not about putting the best guys on the field or doing what it takes to win anymore, its about ego and playing into the fragile mindset of a QB that has amassed a 6-22 record or something similar!

As mentioned in a post above, how can you complain when you defended McD's horrible game plan last year? Consistency was never in McD's playbook. He fought tooth and nail not to play Tebow. When we had two blowouts in the Raiders and Chiefs games, Tebow did not play one down.

KO5K
09-26-2011, 11:58 AM
Elway said they did have a Tebow Package on Vic & Gary this morning and the way he spoke made it sound like he felt it should've been used.

LRtagger
09-26-2011, 12:09 PM
peekaboo

http://www1.ccboe.net/cms/techlab/webpages/1st9wks2010/6th%20Grade%20-%203rd%20Period/Bohan,%20Brandt/pic%206.jpg

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 12:11 PM
Elway said they did have a Tebow Package on Vic & Gary this morning and the way he spoke made it sound like he felt it should've been used.

*ominous Jaws theme begins playing in the background*

SonOfLe-loLang
09-26-2011, 12:18 PM
I don't like Orton, but it was the oline. If the team can't put it in on 4 shots, it's the oline. It would be nice to have a qb who could roll out though.

I don't give a **** who's fault it is. Bad O-line or Good, i bet Tebow scores

bendog
09-26-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm all for a Tebow package, so long as he's under center. It'd be great if he isn't TeBust, and putting him in some gimmick shotgun thing would retard whatever potential he's got. But, as mediocre as he is, Orton has to be better and going through a set of reads. Still, if they put him in there for a qb sneak, and have plow in beside him pushing the guard with Tebow keeping his feet plowing ....

jhns
09-26-2011, 12:25 PM
I'm all for a Tebow package, so long as he's under center. It'd be great if he isn't TeBust, and putting him in some gimmick shotgun thing would retard whatever potential he's got. But, as mediocre as he is, Orton has to be better and going through a set of reads. Still, if they put him in there for a qb sneak, and have plow in beside him pushing the guard with Tebow keeping his feet plowing ....

Why do you continue to try discussing the Broncos when you clearly have no interest in watching them?

bendog
09-26-2011, 12:35 PM
Next time Fox goes "Holy Christ" on 3rd and goal, Tebow should just consider he's been put in.

broncocalijohn
09-26-2011, 12:36 PM
I'm all for a Tebow package, so long as he's under center. It'd be great if he isn't TeBust, and putting him in some gimmick shotgun thing would retard whatever potential he's got.


I dont give a **** if he wants to get on Moreno's back to get the ball hiked to him. As long as he scores 7 ****ing points. Being in the shotgun really bothers you enough that it would be a deal breaker? If he was having trouble with snaps in T.C., then wouldnt the shotgun relieve of that problem?

jhns
09-26-2011, 12:40 PM
I dont give a **** if he wants to get on Moreno's back to get the ball hiked to him. As long as he scores 7 ****ing points. Being in the shotgun really bothers you enough that it would be a deal breaker? If he was having trouble with snaps in T.C., then wouldnt the shotgun relieve of that problem?

Only his boy Orton can play from shotgun!

KO5K
09-26-2011, 12:46 PM
MaxBroncos (http://twitter.com/#%21/MaxBroncos) MaxBroncos

Fox on the Tebow short-yardage packages: "Without announcing things competitively, I'd say we've practiced a lot of that."

27 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/MaxBroncos/status/118388980025798656)

tsiguy96
09-26-2011, 12:49 PM
MaxBroncos (http://twitter.com/#%21/MaxBroncos) MaxBroncos

Fox on the Tebow short-yardage packages: "Without announcing things competitively, I'd say we've practiced a lot of that."

27 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/MaxBroncos/status/118388980025798656)

i truly, honestly dont believe this. i cant, theres no way they are first and goal on the 2 to put the game away and they dont even consider running this play.

bendog
09-26-2011, 12:50 PM
I dont give a **** if he wants to get on Moreno's back to get the ball hiked to him. As long as he scores 7 ****ing points. Being in the shotgun really bothers you enough that it would be a deal breaker? If he was having trouble with snaps in T.C., then wouldnt the shotgun relieve of that problem?

Being in the shotgun is a deal breaker because if Timmy can't do it, he's Tebust. Putting him in shotgun just retards what they're trying to do, which is make him an every down NFL scheme qb. I hope the kid can do it. I'd rather see a dlineman in the first rather than another qb.

bowtown
09-26-2011, 12:52 PM
i truly, honestly dont believe this. i cant, theres no way they are first and goal on the 2 to put the game away and they dont even consider running this play.

If we run it now then it won't take teams by surprise in the playoffs.

broncocalijohn
09-26-2011, 12:56 PM
If we run it now then it won't take teams by surprise in the playoffs.

So shooting our wad now will hurt us later. When did the NFL become the NBA of playoff seeds. But I like your thinking. Revolutionary, forward thinking and Fox doesnt have time for that.

KO5K
09-26-2011, 12:57 PM
i truly, honestly dont believe this. i cant, theres no way they are first and goal on the 2 to put the game away and they dont even consider running this play.

EFX do have a history of lieing.

bowtown
09-26-2011, 12:57 PM
So shooting our wad now will hurt us later. When did the NFL become the NBA of playoff seeds. But I like your thinking. Revolutionary, forward thinking and Fox doesnt have time for that.

That's just what he wants you to believe.

bendog
09-26-2011, 01:33 PM
So shooting our wad now will hurt us later. When did the NFL become the NBA of playoff seeds. But I like your thinking. Revolutionary, forward thinking and Fox doesnt have time for that.

No, you're not even trying to communicate. Dove Valley is trying to TEACH TEBOW WHAT HE NEVER EFFING BOTHERED TO LEARN, ie play under center. If he can do it, we have a qb. If not, we're taking one in the first. They'll have to put him in at some pt and see if he can do it. If he can't, we're better off playing the guy and losing out because we aren't gonna win but maybe three with Orton.

bendog
09-26-2011, 01:35 PM
That's just what he wants you to believe.

azshole.

ColoradoDarin
09-26-2011, 01:52 PM
No, you're not even trying to communicate. Dove Valley is trying to TEACH TEBOW WHAT HE NEVER EFFING BOTHERED TO LEARN, ie play under center. If he can do it, we have a qb. If not, we're taking one in the first. They'll have to put him in at some pt and see if he can do it. If he can't, we're better off playing the guy and losing out because we aren't gonna win but maybe three with Orton.

Wait, didn't they just say that they're practicing the Jumbo Jesus? I'm pretty sure that he's not working on 3,5,7 step drops, his mechanics nor taking snaps from center during the game.

broncocalijohn
09-26-2011, 02:01 PM
No, you're not even trying to communicate. Dove Valley is trying to TEACH TEBOW WHAT HE NEVER EFFING BOTHERED TO LEARN, ie play under center. If he can do it, we have a qb. If not, we're taking one in the first. They'll have to put him in at some pt and see if he can do it. If he can't, we're better off playing the guy and losing out because we aren't gonna win but maybe three with Orton.

no, bowtown was being funny and I was playing the Dope that believed it and went along with it. Not sure how our posts together get this response.

I am not sure if you know this but I had no problem starting Orton if there were issues with Tebow in T.C. BUT, I do know that Orton has had problems in the redzone scoring 7 instead of 3 in the recent past. Therefore, I conclude that Tebow gives us the best option to score those extra points that are normally left on the floor. Those points makes a difference of us winning and losing games .

24champ
09-26-2011, 02:03 PM
Goofy Elway just said they have a Tebow package just have not found the right time to use it yet.

Duh how about 1st and goal from the 2 to win the game. 4 straight rushes.

These coaches are clueless. Would rather prove a point than win the game

I hate to say it, but Elway needs to shut his trap.

Popps
09-26-2011, 02:36 PM
I've stayed mostly out of the Tebow/Orton whine-fest. But, I will say... I'm of the mind that putting Tebow in at the 1 yard line seems beyond logical.
We had success with it under McD. McCoy has to have these plays available.
I mean... it would be one thing if we didn't have an illustrated history of how it can work for us.

I'm all on board with jamming it down teams throats at the 1 yard line using the running game. But, you have to be able to actually do it.

bendog
09-26-2011, 02:42 PM
I'm just hoping they start him in miami. They may wait till the next week, but Mia is a winnable game. If Tebow is really bad as an under center 5 step qb, we need the best pick available. Even running around like a chicken with his head cut off, he might could beat mia if the rest of the team shows up with any degree of intensity and health. If he's good, the franchise is better off than if he sucks ... for luck.

Pony Boy
09-26-2011, 02:47 PM
I'm all for a Tebow package,....

So is Blart ....

ol#7
09-26-2011, 02:59 PM
I am starting to think that juuuust maaaaaybe it wasnt such a master stroke to raid the only team worse than us last year for a coach. Anyone have Rick Dennisons phone #?

canadianbroncosfan
09-26-2011, 03:02 PM
I'm just hoping they start him in miami. They may wait till the next week, but Mia is a winnable game. If Tebow is really bad as an under center 5 step qb, we need the best pick available. Even running around like a chicken with his head cut off, he might could beat mia if the rest of the team shows up with any degree of intensity and health. If he's good, the franchise is better off than if he sucks ... for luck.

I'd like it too but in reality even at the probable 1-5 by the time we play Miami, it's after a bye week so Fox and Orton will have had the heat off of them for two weeks, and Orton will be "refreshed" or "re-energized" or some garbage for Fox to sell him to the nay-sayers.

elsid13
09-26-2011, 03:07 PM
Fox is the ultra-traditionalist. He runs a ball control, rush oriented offense designed to control the clock and lure defenses and fans to sleep. Tebow packages, wild cats, trickery of almost any kind will be very few and very far between.

That was his way in Carolina, did you really expect him to change his entire philsosphy just because Gator boy is on the roster and his cult is chanting his name after every Orton miscue? C'mon.

I don't think folks get this fact. Fox's teams runs a boring offense scheme and he ain't changing it no matter who is behind center. In many ways I hope that he will hire someone that little more progressive/uptempo as his OC to match the aggressive nature he allowing Allen to develop on defense, but I doubt it.

Gort
09-26-2011, 03:07 PM
I'd like it too but in reality even at the probable 1-5 by the time we play Miami, it's after a bye week so Fox and Orton will have had the heat off of them for two weeks, and Orton will be "refreshed" or "re-energized" or some garbage for Fox to sell him to the nay-sayers.

anybody remember when McD gave the team a whole week off during the bye week in 2009 just before we played Baltimore? instead of spending 2 weeks preparing and scheming to beat a tough team and taking advantage of the 2 weeks of preparation time that the bye week allows, the Broncos got a 1 week vacation to read their own press and let their 6-0 start go to their heads. anybody remember how the Ravens popped that balloon? i do. wanna bet Fox makes the same mistake with what will definitely be a must-win game against Miami? i do.

Gort
09-26-2011, 03:08 PM
I don't think folks get this fact. Fox's teams runs a boring offense scheme and he ain't changing it no matter who is behind center. In many ways I hope that he will hire someone that little more progressive/uptempo as his OC to match the aggressive nature he allowing Allen to develop on defense, but I doubt it.

i'm pretty sure a sweep play to the right or to the left is considered to be a razzle-dazzle play in Fox's playbook.

http://bobmaconbusiness.com/images/Stripes_2.jpg

Dr. Broncenstein
09-26-2011, 03:09 PM
I've stayed mostly out of the Tebow/Orton whine-fest. But, I will say... I'm of the mind that putting Tebow in at the 1 yard line seems beyond logical.
We had success with it under McD. McCoy has to have these plays available.
I mean... it would be one thing if we didn't have an illustrated history of how it can work for us.

I'm all on board with jamming it down teams throats at the 1 yard line using the running game. But, you have to be able to actually do it.

If you could draft a backup / emergency backup quarterback who doubled as a redzone / short yardage specialist... and that guy virtually guaranteed a touchdown from inside the 5... if that's all he ever did, he would be worth a first round pick. At the bare minimum, that's what we have in Tebow. And now with the new emergency quarterback rule, I'm really surprised more teams aren't going with something similar. But something is deeply unsettling with Fox's insistence on ignoring this red zone weapon. Especially from 1st and goal at the 2.

elsid13
09-26-2011, 03:12 PM
i'm pretty sure a sweep play to the right or to the left is considered to be a razzle-dazzle play in Fox's playbook.

http://bobmaconbusiness.com/images/Stripes_2.jpg

McCoy and Fox are starting to make Reeves look like Mad Martz. And remember it going to get worse as teams get game film on them.

bendog
09-26-2011, 03:27 PM
If you could draft a backup / emergency backup quarterback who doubled as a redzone / short yardage specialist... and that guy virtually guaranteed a touchdown from inside the 5... if that's all he ever did, he would be worth a first round pick. At the bare minimum, that's what we have in Tebow. And now with the new emergency quarterback rule, I'm really surprised more teams aren't going with something similar. But something is deeply unsettling with Fox's insistence on ignoring this red zone weapon. Especially from 1st and goal at the 2.

I just don't think Tebow is really a better runner from the 2 yd line that a competent tailback. If a team can't punch it in from the two with four tries, just give it up. QB ain't the problem. But, say it's 1st and goal from the 7. I will happily agree a qb who can roll out is a distinct advantage. But IF the goal line offense is lining up Tebow in shotgun, where the run option is him or a shovel pass, imo NFL offenses will learn to stuff that early and often. They can keep 7 in the box and still man cover 4 recievers.

Mile High Mojoe
09-26-2011, 03:52 PM
Even McD was smart enough to eventually come around of this subject. Tebow generates a six points 100% of the time in goal line situations. By my math, that's like a touchdown almost every single time.

Exactly right on. This hard headed and brutal fact says it all. Orton sucks in the red zone. You have to score TD's to win games. Maybe some of the haters on Tebow hate him because they believe he's not ready to be a starter because he isn't experienced enough but believe he can help score 6 points near the goal line.

So I 'm totally confused. How then, is Ortonís experience a bigger plus than Tebowís when he canít help the team put points on the board? So then the next question would be why should Orton be allowed to continue to start if canít help the team score TDís? In 2 Ĺ seasons of football heís been mostly ineffective, if Tebow can score why shouldnít he be put in during those situations or better yet give him the starting job altogether?

It canít be explained away; Orton can complete a short pass when he has 5 minutes of protection and can stand like a frozen statue in the pocket to complete maybe one or two short dump off throws between the 20ís. And most of the time he doesnít move the ball between the 20ís, more often than not itís a 3 and out or a 6 and out and never comes close to the opponents 20. On the far too rare occasions he does move the ball inside the 20 he rarely leads the O to a score. Since Orton is so one dimensional and predictable in the red zone and the passing game of the Broncos or the threat of a rushing TD is greatly diminished why in the hell would he continue to keep his job?

Hereís the bigger question, is a lot of bad experience better than a young player with no experience? If Tebow comes into a game and throws 3 INTís and scores 2 TDís on a rush or a TD pass and the Broncos win the game isnít that the goal? Tebow may be ugly in their at times during a game and win ugly but thatís far better than playing ugly and losing ugly which is what Orton has been and will continue to do for the Broncos.

razorwire77
09-26-2011, 04:17 PM
I just don't think Tebow is really a better runner from the 2 yd line that a competent tailback. If a team can't punch it in from the two with four tries, just give it up. QB ain't the problem. But, say it's 1st and goal from the 7. I will happily agree a qb who can roll out is a distinct advantage. But IF the goal line offense is lining up Tebow in shotgun, where the run option is him or a shovel pass, imo NFL offenses will learn to stuff that early and often. They can keep 7 in the box and still man cover 4 recievers.

You could make that argument, but you have to respect a 245 pound athletic running threat that can also throw. Just by having the run/pass option, his value even as a decoy is huge. I'm surprised McCoy/Fox are being so narrow minded in this case.

HooptyHoops
09-26-2011, 04:22 PM
I'm watching the Titans game on NFL Rewind right now from this weekend...The Titans scored early in the 2nd quarter. We get the ball back. Orton has a 15 yard completion to Fells and Fells runs another 15 yards. Next play, McGahee runs strong for 5 yards in to TN territory....momentum is ours....next play, Orton misses a wide open Decker(15 yards downfield) for an INT. Yes, the INT is what everybody talks about, but the plays leading up to that look like the Broncos are poised to get more points on the board...drives me nuts!

LRtagger
09-26-2011, 06:50 PM
If you could draft a backup / emergency backup quarterback who doubled as a redzone / short yardage specialist... and that guy virtually guaranteed a touchdown from inside the 5... if that's all he ever did, he would be worth a first round pick. At the bare minimum, that's what we have in Tebow. And now with the new emergency quarterback rule, I'm really surprised more teams aren't going with something similar. But something is deeply unsettling with Fox's insistence on ignoring this red zone weapon. Especially from 1st and goal at the 2.

That's always been my mindset. When people find out I'm a denver fan they immediately ask if I think Tebow will be good. I always say I don't know, but if he can score 10 tds a season as the backup qb he was worth a first round pick.

Jay3
09-26-2011, 06:55 PM
If you could draft a backup / emergency backup quarterback who doubled as a redzone / short yardage specialist... and that guy virtually guaranteed a touchdown from inside the 5... if that's all he ever did, he would be worth a first round pick. At the bare minimum, that's what we have in Tebow. And now with the new emergency quarterback rule, I'm really surprised more teams aren't going with something similar. But something is deeply unsettling with Fox's insistence on ignoring this red zone weapon. Especially from 1st and goal at the 2.

This was essentially the logic behind the Bill Bellichick theory of Tebow being drafted late first. Bellichick loves to innovate, watched the Florida offense closely (Aaron Hernandez), would have gotten a serviceable backup and a goal-line wildcat, and a developmental quarterback starter in case Tom Brady ever goes down (or they couldn't afford $100 million to keep him down the road).

Tebow's a very valuable player if he's got a coach that can unclench long enough to use him.

Bronx33
09-26-2011, 06:56 PM
All i have to say is ( play to win the f***** game!) winning is all that matters.

Jay3
09-26-2011, 07:04 PM
I just don't think Tebow is really a better runner from the 2 yd line that a competent tailback. If a team can't punch it in from the two with four tries, just give it up. QB ain't the problem. But, say it's 1st and goal from the 7. I will happily agree a qb who can roll out is a distinct advantage. But IF the goal line offense is lining up Tebow in shotgun, where the run option is him or a shovel pass, imo NFL offenses will learn to stuff that early and often. They can keep 7 in the box and still man cover 4 recievers.

Well, it works for several reasons. I'll put the first reason aside -- I think Tebow is very naturally gifted at the exact skillset for finding a hole in short yardage and exploding through it.

But more importantly, a "wildcat" snap is actually a very advantageous way to run for short yardage. You can see the line, you can adjust, and it's a quick dive (no mesh point, no hand-off, no timing problems). It's one reason the wildcat was successful for a while -- it's very helpful to the back to receive a direct snap.

But the problem with having a running back receive a direct snap is that you know he's not a double-threat. With Tebow, he is. So he can keep them honest with the passing and bust them with the dive.

There is no other quarterback on the planet (and frankly in history) with Tebow's goal-line power. (Maybe Cam is in the same league). It is quite literally the best short yardage touchdown machine in history. The possibilities with 4 downs are endless.

(In Chapter 2, we cover how this same philosophy can help an offense that stays "on schedule" be dominant in getting first downs).

Taco John
09-26-2011, 07:05 PM
I just don't think Tebow is really a better runner from the 2 yd line that a competent tailback.

I agree. The problem now is getting us a competent tailback.

Bronx33
09-26-2011, 07:12 PM
I agree. The problem now is getting us a competent tailback.

So until then ( what should we do?) its obvious when orton is in the D has no worries about a scrambling QB i mean ( zero worries) so why not put tebow in? it at least forces the D to worry about it, it makes it so much easier for an opposing D to play if the QB is a zero threat on his feet.


coach fox might google this comment so ( hi coach fox)!!! PM me!!!

Powderaddict
09-26-2011, 07:16 PM
McCoy and Fox are starting to make Reeves look like Mad Martz. And remember it going to get worse as teams get game film on them.

To be fair Reeves had Elway under wraps for 55 minutes a game. That's an eternal damnation type of sin.

I'm not sure you want Orton slinging the ball all over the field all that much.

OABB
09-26-2011, 07:40 PM
I'm watching the Titans game on NFL Rewind right now from this weekend...The Titans scored early in the 2nd quarter. We get the ball back. Orton has a 15 yard completion to Fells and Fells runs another 15 yards. Next play, McGahee runs strong for 5 yards in to TN territory....momentum is ours....next play, Orton misses a wide open Decker(15 yards downfield) for an INT. Yes, the INT is what everybody talks about, but the plays leading up to that look like the Broncos are poised to get more points on the board...drives me nuts!

this is profound. they say every game has two or three plays that decide the game....every loss has an ortonesque play like this in it. he always does it when we start getting momentum. every ****ing time.

thats the weirdness of his stats because a pic doesnt look bad next to 300 yards....but if there was a stat for picks or incomplete passes that will turn the outcome of the game, he would lead the league. i ****ing hate him. im done with him.

maher_tyler
09-26-2011, 09:00 PM
this is profound. they say every game has two or three plays that decide the game....every loss has an ortonesque play like this in it. he always does it when we start getting momentum. every ****ing time.

thats the weirdness of his stats because a pic doesnt look bad next to 300 yards....but if there was a stat for picks or incomplete passes that will turn the outcome of the game, he would lead the league. i ****ing hate him. im done with him.

Exactly! When he threw INT #1 and #2, i wasn't even mad. It's what i've come to expect and as a Broncos fan, thats unacceptable!

Unfortunately, i highly doubt we see Tebow until after the bye week! I highly doubt we beat GB but SD is possible, they haven't played all that impressive!

Blueflame
09-26-2011, 09:14 PM
*sigh* I miss TD....

gyldenlove
09-26-2011, 09:42 PM
Tim Tebow in the red zone as a starter:

Game 1: Oakland - 0 team snaps inside the Oakland 20. (0 for 0)
Game 2: 10 plays - 1 Interception, 1 fumble, 1 sack, 4 incomplete passes, 1 incomplete pass nullified by defensive PI, 6 yard rush and 1 rush TD. (1 TD by Buckhalter, 1 FG, 1 turnover, 1 backed out of red zone, 1 rushing TD - 2 for 5)
Game 3: 5 plays - 2 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 incomplete pass and 1 spike. (3 for 3)

I wouldn't call that amazing and it is certainly fair from 100%.

Jay3
09-26-2011, 09:48 PM
Tim Tebow in the red zone as a starter:

Game 1: Oakland - 0 team snaps inside the Oakland 20. (0 for 0)
Game 2: 10 plays - 1 Interception, 1 fumble, 1 sack, 4 incomplete passes, 1 incomplete pass nullified by defensive PI, 6 yard rush and 1 rush TD. (1 TD by Buckhalter, 1 FG, 1 turnover, 1 backed out of red zone, 1 rushing TD - 2 for 5)
Game 3: 5 plays - 2 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 incomplete pass and 1 spike. (3 for 3)

I wouldn't call that amazing and it is certainly fair from 100%.

Why cherry pick? Leaving out 3 rushing TD's and 1 passing TD when the topic is about putting him in as a non-starter. The 100% was goal line substitutions when he wasn't starting.

uplink
09-26-2011, 09:52 PM
NateKreckman (http://twitter.com/#%21/NateKreckman) Nate Kreckman



John Fox and the women of Denver all have one thing in common: neither get any use out of the Tebow package<s class="hash"></s> (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Broncos)

MagicHef
09-26-2011, 10:21 PM
Tim Tebow in the red zone as a starter:

Game 1: Oakland - 0 team snaps inside the Oakland 20. (0 for 0)
Game 2: 10 plays - 1 Interception, 1 fumble, 1 sack, 4 incomplete passes, 1 incomplete pass nullified by defensive PI, 6 yard rush and 1 rush TD. (1 TD by Buckhalter, 1 FG, 1 turnover, 1 backed out of red zone, 1 rushing TD - 2 for 5)
Game 3: 5 plays - 2 passing TDs, 1 rushing TD, 1 incomplete pass and 1 spike. (3 for 3)

I wouldn't call that amazing and it is certainly fair from 100%.

Didn't the "backed out of the redzone" series still end in a TD? I think that counts as a successful redzone trip. Therefore Tebow was 6/8 (75%) in the redzone as a starter, or 10/12 (83.3%) if you count all of his redzone snaps.

So far this season, Orton is 4/8 (50%) in the redzone, if I counted correctly.

SoCalBronco
09-26-2011, 10:21 PM
WHAT HOW DARE YOU!!!! You turn on a coach for this BUT, defend the "coach" that lied, gutted the team of talent, and pissed off over half the fan base in less then a few months of being hired :rofl:Hilarious!Ha!LOL:giggle:

There is some ****ed up irony in it to be sure.....but at least tsiguy is starting to mature as a fan. He's not sucking the team's dick on every issue anymore, which is admirable and he's clearly thinking for himself at this point. I'll give him some props for taking off the homer glasses....finally.

ZONA
09-27-2011, 04:14 AM
It's like the fans are the girl looking for here gold fish (fans looking for Tebow on goal line packages) and Fox is the dad, trying to lie with a straight face, hahaha............"Have you looked all around, what are you gonna do"

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ces98B8W8r4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheChamp24
09-27-2011, 06:41 AM
I think its idiotic coaches have to say "It will hurt a player's psych if I take them out".
Well, best chance to win is still putting Tebow in inside the 5. Do the spread option play, and I'd be willing to bet we'd score a TD nearly every fricken time.

fontaine
09-27-2011, 06:52 AM
I'm sure the playcalling could improve.
I'm sure installing a Tebow red zone package would improve our red zone issues.
I'm sure having D Thomas, Moreno, Royal, Lloyd back healthy would improve it also.

just like I'm sure none of those things would make Kyle Orton a better QB.

If Kyle Orton isn't good enough to get it done in the red zone then he doesn't belong there in the first place. I'd rather put in Tebow full time as the starter and it's only a matter of time before that happens.

Gort
09-27-2011, 07:12 AM
I'm sure the playcalling could improve.
I'm sure installing a Tebow red zone package would improve our red zone issues.
I'm sure having D Thomas, Moreno, Royal, Lloyd back healthy would improve it also.

just like I'm sure none of those things would make Kyle Orton a better QB.

If Kyle Orton isn't good enough to get it done in the red zone then he doesn't belong there in the first place. I'd rather put in Tebow full time as the starter and it's only a matter of time before that happens.

i was just searching around on the Denver Post looking for a quote i saw a couple of days ago and discovered a hidden nugget in one of Woody's recent mailbags. he said that Elway has told him 3 times that he believes in Tebow, but that Tebow needs to become a complete player first (how does one do that sitting on the bench?). he also said he's known Elway since 1983 and that he believes what Elway tells him about Tebow because he thinks Elway is an honest guy, although he might not be telling the truth about Tebow. he also says that over the years, he figures Elway has been honest with him (on and off the record) about 90% of the time. now here's the kicker... apparently, one person in Dove Valley confessed that EFX were also shopping Tebow before the season started and there was little or no interest. whether this happened before or after the Orton/MIA discussions, i don't know... Woody doesn't say. but this does cause the hairs on the back of my neck to stand up. i do not believe that Fox or Elway want Tebow on this team. i don't think Fox will put him into any game plans in any meaningful capacity. i don't think Elway would hesitate to draft a QB if we have a top 5 draft pick. in short, i don't think Tebow gets a fair shake here this year and is gone this offseason for whatever they can get for him. the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that Tebow is not what they envision when they think of the ideal QB for this offense and there's nothing he can do to change that perception.

Jay3
09-27-2011, 07:43 AM
apparently, one person in Dove Valley confessed that EFX were also shopping Tebow before the season started and there was little or no interest. whether this happened before or after the Orton/MIA discussions, i don't know... Woody doesn't say. but this does cause the hairs on the back of my neck to stand up. i do not believe that Fox or Elway want Tebow on this team. i don't think Fox will put him into any game plans in any meaningful capacity. i don't think Elway would hesitate to draft a QB if we have a top 5 draft pick. in short, i don't think Tebow gets a fair shake here this year and is gone this offseason for whatever they can get for him. the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that Tebow is not what they envision when they think of the ideal QB for this offense and there's nothing he can do to change that perception.

This is all correct, IMO. We are watching the product that EFX wants on the field.

The Joker
09-27-2011, 07:46 AM
Another important advantage to the Tebow package is that there's an extra blocker for him than there is when the QB hands off to the RB on a traditional running play.

In that situation it really does come down to inches, and having an additional guy in front of you trying to create space is huge.

Rabb
09-27-2011, 07:47 AM
Another important advantage to the Tebow package is that there's an extra blocker for him than there is when the QB hands off to the RB on a traditional running play.

In that situation it really does come down to inches, and having an additional guy in front of you trying to create space is huge.

not to mention, in the red zone it's basically been proven to be unstoppable

ol#7
09-27-2011, 07:49 AM
This is all correct, IMO. We are watching the product that EFX wants on the field.

Eventually, if thats what they put on the field, people have to vote with their wallets. Look, Pro football is still nothing but entertainment. Do you go to a bad movie on purpose (maybe if you really like the cast) same thing here. If the buying public wants to see a different lead, eventually they have to acquiesce, as long as there not generating the dollars.

DenverBrit
09-27-2011, 08:20 AM
Not sure why Woody's quotes have all of a sudden become gospel.

Fox says he has plays designed for Tebow.

And yes, Fox, said, there is indeed a set of plays in his playbook that are designed to capitalize on Tebow's skills in short-yardage and goal line situations.

"Without announcing things competitively, I would say we've practiced a lot of that," Fox said.

He just hasn't used them in a game yet, although he said he considered all his options in crunch time Sunday.

"It's all a consideration. Every play is a consideration," Fox said. "When they work, you're a genius and when they don't, you're an idiot."

Tebow is still a work in progress as a passer but he can certainly punch it into the end zone like he did so often in college at Florida.

It's just that Fox trusts he has better options this year with McGahee in his backfield, a new corps of tight ends and a beefier line with 330-pound rookie Orlando Franklin at right tackle.

"They were all considerations, all the plays, all the players, all the personnel groups," Fox said.

So, did he not think Tebow could help him?

"No, I didn't say that," Fox replied. "We just didn't choose him."

http://www.dailycamera.com/broncos-nfl/ci_18984564?source=rss

jhns
09-27-2011, 08:24 AM
Not sure why Woody's quotes have all of a sudden become gospel.

Fox says he has plays designed for Tebow.



http://www.dailycamera.com/broncos-nfl/ci_18984564?source=rss

You didn't want to use your best red zone weapon as you made the extremely stupid decision to go for it when up by four in the fourth. So you thought that drive needed a score but handicapoed yourself? Again, good luck at your next stop.

WolfpackGuy
09-27-2011, 08:27 AM
Something must be up.

To not even use Teboz as a decoy is odd unless you're trying to tank the season.

jhns
09-27-2011, 08:31 AM
Something must be up.

To not even use Teboz as a decoy is odd unless you're trying to tank the season.

With the calls and decisions Fox has been making, I'm almost ready to buy into aconspiracy of them wanting to suck for Luck. Maybe I just want to believe our coach isn't really this incompetent. Not that sucking on purpose is any better. I would want him fired either way.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 08:34 AM
i was just searching around on the Denver Post looking for a quote i saw a couple of days ago and discovered a hidden nugget in one of Woody's recent mailbags. he said that Elway has told him 3 times that he believes in Tebow, but that Tebow needs to become a complete player first (how does one do that sitting on the bench?). he also said he's known Elway since 1983 and that he believes what Elway tells him about Tebow because he thinks Elway is an honest guy, although he might not be telling the truth about Tebow. he also says that over the years, he figures Elway has been honest with him (on and off the record) about 90% of the time. now here's the kicker... apparently, one person in Dove Valley confessed that EFX were also shopping Tebow before the season started and there was little or no interest. whether this happened before or after the Orton/MIA discussions, i don't know... Woody doesn't say. but this does cause the hairs on the back of my neck to stand up. i do not believe that Fox or Elway want Tebow on this team. i don't think Fox will put him into any game plans in any meaningful capacity. i don't think Elway would hesitate to draft a QB if we have a top 5 draft pick. in short, i don't think Tebow gets a fair shake here this year and is gone this offseason for whatever they can get for him. the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that Tebow is not what they envision when they think of the ideal QB for this offense and there's nothing he can do to change that perception.

Not even giving the guy a chance is the real sticking point for me if you are right. Who the hell trades a guy that has a 1st rounder invested in him without at least giving him a chance? And it doesn't matter who drafted him. Major team resources are invested in him, and it's absolutely wasteful to not at least give the guy a season to show something before shipping him out for yet another unproven rookie QB. If we ship out Tebow and draft another hotshot QB with a cannon arm who thinks he's already the greatest of all time at the position (mentioning no names), I'll vomit.

Gort
09-27-2011, 08:43 AM
Not even giving the guy a chance is the real sticking point for me if you are right. Who the hell trades a guy that has a 1st rounder invested in him without at least giving him a chance? And it doesn't matter who drafted him. Major team resources are invested in him, and it's absolutely wasteful to not at least give the guy a season to show something before shipping him out for yet another unproven rookie QB. If we ship out Tebow and draft another hotshot QB with a cannon arm who thinks he's already the greatest of all time at the position (mentioning no names), I'll vomit.

well, like was said above, i am not saying that everything Woody writes is gospel. there are some things i trust him to be accurate about, but the gossip stuff is just that... gossip. some of it will eventually prove untrue. however, 3 games in and the only plays on which Tebow sees the field are as WR? really ??? that's what makes me suspicious. let's wait a few more games and see what happens, but this sure "feels" like the McD/Hillis experience all over again. new coach comes in and decides he doesn't like a guy for whatever reason and then won't play him even though there is tape from the previous season showing what that guy can do during a game. this is deja vu all over again, at least from my perspective.

and if Fox ever starts referring to Tebow as "the player", then we'll all know how this story is going to end.

WolfpackGuy
09-27-2011, 08:52 AM
With the calls and decisions Fox has been making, I'm almost ready to buy into aconspiracy of them wanting to suck for Luck. Maybe I just want to believe our coach isn't really this incompetent. Not that sucking on purpose is any better. I would want him fired either way.

I like Fox as a coach, but I think what's going on at QB has to be coming from upstairs.

Eventhough it would clear things up, it's not like they can come right out and say, "We want Luck."

Maybe once there's no chance of Teboz meeting that playing time contract escalator, then they'll throw him out there.

They're not going to be a contender in the end, so at a bare minimum, this season has to be finding out what they have or don't have in Teboz.

fontaine
09-27-2011, 09:05 AM
i was just searching around on the Denver Post looking for a quote i saw a couple of days ago and discovered a hidden nugget in one of Woody's recent mailbags. he said that Elway has told him 3 times that he believes in Tebow, but that Tebow needs to become a complete player first (how does one do that sitting on the bench?). he also said he's known Elway since 1983 and that he believes what Elway tells him about Tebow because he thinks Elway is an honest guy, although he might not be telling the truth about Tebow. he also says that over the years, he figures Elway has been honest with him (on and off the record) about 90% of the time. now here's the kicker... apparently, one person in Dove Valley confessed that EFX were also shopping Tebow before the season started and there was little or no interest. whether this happened before or after the Orton/MIA discussions, i don't know... Woody doesn't say. but this does cause the hairs on the back of my neck to stand up. i do not believe that Fox or Elway want Tebow on this team. i don't think Fox will put him into any game plans in any meaningful capacity. i don't think Elway would hesitate to draft a QB if we have a top 5 draft pick. in short, i don't think Tebow gets a fair shake here this year and is gone this offseason for whatever they can get for him. the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests that Tebow is not what they envision when they think of the ideal QB for this offense and there's nothing he can do to change that perception.

A lot will happen before the next offseason like Tebow getting on the field as QB. It's pretty much almost guaranteed that Orton will either continue to suck or get injured.

The question is will this time Tebow make the most of his opportunity unlike in training camp where he couldn't even beat Quinn?

And honestly what exactly would we lose if Tebow was traded in the offseason? I mean the prospect of waiting and hoping for a project QB to maybe develop into some kind of starter in 2/3 years isn't exactly appealing to me considering all the fundamental problems he has.

I'd rather spend that time on a much more polished QB coming out of the draft next season.

Do we really want to hang our future on Tebow when he couldn't even beat out Quinn?

The only reason Tebow looks good right now is because Orton is completely crapping out which is like going for an ugly chick only because the girl she's standing next to is an uglier chick with a neck beard and a half empty bottle of Jack.

Drek
09-27-2011, 09:06 AM
I just don't think Tebow is really a better runner from the 2 yd line that a competent tailback. If a team can't punch it in from the two with four tries, just give it up. QB ain't the problem. But, say it's 1st and goal from the 7. I will happily agree a qb who can roll out is a distinct advantage. But IF the goal line offense is lining up Tebow in shotgun, where the run option is him or a shovel pass, imo NFL offenses will learn to stuff that early and often. They can keep 7 in the box and still man cover 4 recievers.

The boldded is empirically false, FYI.

Go look at the combine numbers. In a 10 yard space Tim Tebow was the most explosive athlete in his entire draft class.

At the combine his combination of shuttles, 10 yard times, broad jump, vertical jump, etc.. were equal or better than every RB and WR in his draft class. That was a class that included CJ Spiller, Ryan Matthews, Jahvid Best, Dexter McCluster, Ben Tate, Montario Hardesty, etc.. Lot of RBs went pretty early. Tebow compared to every one of them athletically within 10 yards. He outweighs all of them by at least 20 pounds, most of them by 30 or more.

You grossly underestimate Tebow's athleticism. If Mike Vick is a QB with scat back athleticism Tim Tebow is a QB with power HB/FB athleticism. He is physically as explosive in short yardage as Mike Alstott, Peyton Hillis, LeRon McClain, etc.. His play reflects that and the data (workout numbers and physical measurements) back it up.

His ability (or inability) to read defenses and throw accurate passes aside, he is a beast in short yardage. He proved it repeatedly at Florida, against SEC defenses stocked with NFL level talent on the front seven. He proved it in multiple goal line packages last year before Orton got hurt. He proved it again when he was the full time starter for three games.

Rohirrim
09-27-2011, 09:12 AM
A lot will happen before the next offseason like Tebow getting on the field as QB. It's pretty much almost guaranteed that Orton will either continue to suck or get injured.

The question is will this time Tebow make the most of his opportunity unlike in training camp where he couldn't even beat Quinn?

And honestly what exactly would we lose if Tebow was traded in the offseason? I mean the prospect of waiting and hoping for a project QB to maybe develop into some kind of starter in 2/3 years isn't exactly appealing to me considering all the fundamental problems he has.

I'd rather spend that time on a much more polished QB coming out of the draft next season.

Do we really want to hang our future on Tebow when he couldn't even beat out Quinn?

The only reason Tebow looks good right now is because Orton is completely crapping out which is like going for an ugly chick only because the girl she's standing next to is an uglier chick with a neck beard and a half empty bottle of Jack.

I agree with this take. ;D

If we're lucky, we can get a third round pick for Tebow.

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 09:17 AM
Do we really want to hang our future on Tebow when he couldn't even beat out Quinn?


People still believe this ****? Hilarious!

jhns
09-27-2011, 09:19 AM
People still believe this ****? Hilarious!

Yeah, rmthe people that don't actually watch the Broncos. It is nice of them to point themselves out.

DenverBrit
09-27-2011, 11:03 AM
People still believe this ****? Hilarious!

You have inside info that says otherwise?

Agamemnon
09-27-2011, 11:05 AM
You have inside info that says otherwise?

Seriously?

I watched the preseason. I don't need any insider information. What were you doing?

DenverBrit
09-27-2011, 11:28 AM
Seriously?

I watched the preseason. I don't need any insider information. What were you doing?

You watched pre-season and that's how you made the assessment?

No TC or film study, just watched it on TV and now you know more than the Broncos? Ha!

jhns
09-27-2011, 11:30 AM
You watched pre-season and that's how you made the assessment?

No TC or film study, just watched it on TV and now you know more than the Broncos? Ha!

The Broncos have said Quinn outplayed Tebow?

Also, LOL @ the stupidity of practice meaning more than games. Don't worry, it is obvious to all of us that you are one of these fair weather fans that don't care to actually watch anymore. You should try to make it less obvious when trying to argue about it though.

Jay3
09-27-2011, 12:00 PM
A lot will happen before the next offseason like Tebow getting on the field as QB. It's pretty much almost guaranteed that Orton will either continue to suck or get injured.

The question is will this time Tebow make the most of his opportunity unlike in training camp where he couldn't even beat Quinn?

And honestly what exactly would we lose if Tebow was traded in the offseason? I mean the prospect of waiting and hoping for a project QB to maybe develop into some kind of starter in 2/3 years isn't exactly appealing to me considering all the fundamental problems he has.

I'd rather spend that time on a much more polished QB coming out of the draft next season.

Do we really want to hang our future on Tebow when he couldn't even beat out Quinn?

The only reason Tebow looks good right now is because Orton is completely crapping out which is like going for an ugly chick only because the girl she's standing next to is an uglier chick with a neck beard and a half empty bottle of Jack.

It doesn't have to be either/or. It's a simple, logical progression from (1) Orton isn't the answer; (2) Tebow is on the roster, a 1st round pick who has shown playmaking ability; and (3) you can always pick another quarterback anyway. Heck, play Tebow this year and next, pick one in 2012 and he can be grooming while Tebow figures it out.

I've just never seen a team clench up its anus so bad around the quarterback question. Just put 'em in and see if they develop. If you feel like it, get another one. Repeat. Since when did it become such a Prom Queen drama to play the players you've got?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-27-2011, 04:13 PM
i almost regret the fox hiring at this point, because of this:

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18977269?utm_medium=facebook



this guy doesnt even have a set of plays available for a guy to do what he truly does best! its not about putting the best guys on the field or doing what it takes to win anymore, its about ego and playing into the fragile mindset of a QB that has amassed a 6-22 record or something similar!

The quoted bit sure seems like a lot of conjecture on the part of Paige. No great surprise there.

I doubt it has anything to do with Orton's psyche.

go_broncos
09-27-2011, 04:19 PM
The quoted bit sure seems like a lot of conjecture on the part of Paige. No great surprise there.

I doubt it has anything to do with Orton's psyche.

you are back..........:spit:

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-27-2011, 04:24 PM
you are back..........:spit:

Briefly. Busy at work.

Miss me, kiddo?

rbackfactory80
09-27-2011, 04:53 PM
Busy at work is coach speak for pwned.

OABB
09-27-2011, 05:13 PM
Briefly. Busy at work.

Miss me, kiddo?

I bet you were busy..... being Ortons nut sucker must be more demanding after he blows games.

does he eat pineaple for you at least?

TotallyScrewed
09-27-2011, 05:37 PM
This is one of the most enjoyable threads I've read on here in a long time. Well done!

I gotta believe that there are "other" reasons that the HC is not playing Tebow in such obvious situations. I hope that the Broncos are not counting on sucking enough for Luck because there are way too many teams out there that suck more than the current Broncos.

Aren't there like five teams with 0-3 records? Aren't like ten more with 1-2 records? This could be one of those years where 1-15 doesn't guarantee the #1 pick.

I think the Broncos have to find out what they have in Tebow but what they're afraid of is beyond me. Even if Tebow starts playing the game, it doesn't necessarily mean he won't get benched. It happened to Elway. Why not find out sooner rather than later?

Hulamau
09-27-2011, 06:49 PM
Screw the bench Orton billboard. We need a, "Fire Fox, Xanders, and Ellis" billboard. Giving away games with such amateur calls and because of ego is unacceptable at this level. Starting Orton alone should get them fired. Not using Tebow even in the red zone, while the team struggles there, is even worse. Not kicking that field goal is just as bad as the Tebow/Orton thing. This team may have just hired two of the leagues worst coaches back to back.

Jesus take a pill .... Jhns you need to get your cortisol, growth hormone and testosterone levels checked. Seriously dude such over the top hysteria is a common symptom for those with low levels of each of those stabilizing hormones. Such displays are common deficiency symptoms for those hormones when the person simply finds the world too much to handle and overreacts with such drama queen statements to any little thing .. LETS FIRE EVERY ONE OH MY GODD HELLLLLPPPPP USS!!!! After the third game a 1-2 record with all three games decided by less than 3 points and that we were in position to win all three.... Yes its a NATIONAL FREAKIN' DISASTER OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS!!!

get a check up ...or better yet GROW UP!!

fontaine
09-28-2011, 08:40 AM
It doesn't have to be either/or. It's a simple, logical progression from (1) Orton isn't the answer; (2) Tebow is on the roster, a 1st round pick who has shown playmaking ability; and (3) you can always pick another quarterback anyway. Heck, play Tebow this year and next, pick one in 2012 and he can be grooming while Tebow figures it out.

I've just never seen a team clench up its anus so bad around the quarterback question. Just put 'em in and see if they develop. If you feel like it, get another one. Repeat. Since when did it become such a Prom Queen drama to play the players you've got?

Because it's not all about just the one player.

Yeah they could put in Tebow and go with it but there has to be a better reason than "put 'em in and see if they develop."

The current coaching staff is trying to put in a winning mentality or at least get the players to compete hard through all four quarters.

Like it or not (and I don't) but it seems there's more support for Orton in the locker room than Tebow.

Fox and co don't have the good will/trust built up in the roster yet to start making moves unquestioned. Especially when all the rest of the players can/have clearly seen Tebow struggle in practice - at least compared to Orton and they realize (rightly or wrongly) that Orton gives them a better chance to win.

Now, if we're 1-4 then that change becomes more easy, but for now, if the coaches truely believe that Orton gives them the better chance to win (and more importantly the locker room) then I'm willing to trust them on this.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-28-2011, 08:42 AM
Busy at work is coach speak for pwned.

Uhhh, okay. Or in this case, it means "busy at work." But whatever you need to tell yourself, sonny.

jhns
09-28-2011, 08:52 AM
Jesus take a pill .... Jhns you need to get your cortisol, growth hormone and testosterone levels checked. Seriously dude such over the top hysteria is a common symptom for those with low levels of each of those stabilizing hormones. Such displays are common deficiency symptoms for those hormones when the person simply finds the world too much to handle and overreacts with such drama queen statements to any little thing .. LETS FIRE EVERY ONE OH MY GODD HELLLLLPPPPP USS!!!! After the third game a 1-2 record with all three games decided by less than 3 points and that we were in position to win all three.... Yes its a NATIONAL FREAKIN' DISASTER OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS!!!

get a check up ...or better yet GROW UP!!

It isn't fire everyone and two of the three need fired for a lot more than just what happens this season. The other won't last long here if he keeps giving away games with such stupid decisions. You don't give away games in this league. You don't keep your job by refusing to use talent just because... I like what he has done with the team off the field so far. He has the defense and special teams playing much better. I like some of the talent they brought in. That said, the team has not been coached very well. Between penalties, mistakes, and dumb calls, I'm not real excited about what we are seeing on game days. Hopefully this changes.

You call me the drama queen as you take my opinions and overreact to them. Good job.

bendog
09-28-2011, 08:54 AM
EFX want Tim to fail. I swear it's true.

jhns
09-28-2011, 09:00 AM
EFX want Tim to fail. I swear it's true.

Now that is being a drama queen.

Fox does seem to want his career as a head coach to fail. He doesn't use his best red zone weapon in the red zone. After the team has completely failed on four of four short yardage running plays, he kills all momentum by going for it on fourth and short with a running play that happened to be the fifth in a row to get stuffed. It isn't like we have been losing because we are getting outplayed. Talent hasn't been the issue so far.

Rabb
09-28-2011, 09:04 AM
I don't think they want him to fail, I think they just won't give him a chance to succeed.

They don't WANT him to fail because then they cannot trade him. If you look at Cam's first 3 games, and Tim's first 3 games...do you have any doubt at all that we are making a mistake here? They both showed a lot of promise, yet ESPN and the rest of the talking heads cannot stop talking about Cam's upside and future. I just won't ever understand this.

bendog
09-28-2011, 09:20 AM
Now jhns, no one can be more a drama queen than you. I can parody, but seriously you have no competition in that.

Cam's running an NFL offense, Tebow was running Urban Meyers.

I haven't heard anyone who has access to dove valley or first hand knowledge, and any clue as to being an NFL qb, that Tebow is ready to play under center. I think EFX will have to put him in at some pt. chances are they're 1-4 going into the bye, but Den can beat Mia. I don't think Fox can face the lockerroom if he puts in Tebow when the team knows Orton gives them the best shot, poor as it is. But if they're 2-4 and Det comes in and gives us a beatdown, I gotta think that's the end for Orton in denver.

Ready or not, I think they gotta play him. And they have to know that, and right now I think they're trying to get him as ready as they can.

This whole thread is "drama queen" The only red zone package Tebow could run is the qb sneak, and he was having trouble with the snap in August. Put him in shotgun and they just delay his progress playing under center a little bit more.

jhns
09-28-2011, 09:25 AM
This whole thread is "drama queen" The only red zone package Tebow could run is the qb sneak, and he was having trouble with the snap in August. Put him in shotgun and they just delay his progress playing under center a little bit more.

This doesn't even make a little sense. Tebow has already proven he can do a lot more than just a QB sneak. This was in live games that you obviously didn't watch. He was better in the red zone than any player in this league.

As for the rest, how exactpy would this hurt him? If they play him in the same offense Orton is running, it will hurt his progress in that offense?

rbackfactory80
09-28-2011, 10:23 AM
Uhhh, okay. Or in this case, it means "busy at work." But whatever you need to tell yourself, sonny.

Kyle Orton isn't the only one who remains elusive after losses. Sure you will be back to a hundred posts a day after we win another game. I should say if we win another game.

Pony Boy
09-28-2011, 10:36 AM
Kyle Orton isn't the only one who remains elusive after losses. Sure you will be back to a hundred posts a day after we win another game. I should say if we win another game.

Seriously, he does wear the apron at home, cleans the house, does the laundry and prepare the meals.

Drunk Monkey
09-28-2011, 01:00 PM
Not sure why Woody's quotes have all of a sudden become gospel.

Fox says he has plays designed for Tebow.



http://www.dailycamera.com/broncos-nfl/ci_18984564?source=rss

Was listening to the Fan yesterday and they had Wesley Woodyard on. He said they don't have a Tebow package and have not been practicing it. And no I don't have a link it was on the radio.

MagicHef
09-28-2011, 01:08 PM
Was listening to the Fan yesterday and they had Wesley Woodyard on. He said they don't have a Tebow package and have not been practicing it. And no I don't have a link it was on the radio.

So, the coaching staff/FO is adamant about these Tebow plays being practiced, but every time they ask a player about it, the player says they don't exist. Interesting.

Popps
09-28-2011, 01:27 PM
Was listening to the Fan yesterday and they had Wesley Woodyard on. He said they don't have a Tebow package and have not been practicing it. And no I don't have a link it was on the radio.

Fox said they do have one, and that they wouldn't be talking about it due to competitive issues.

We obviously know the package exists. We have the same OC and it was in the playbook last year. I mean, it's probably 4 plays. If they wanted to use it, they'd use it.

They don't, and while I don't have a strong feeling about the QB controversy... I will say that it's hard for me to understand why you don't work those plays into our current offense.

Drunk Monkey
09-28-2011, 01:34 PM
Fox said they do have one, and that they wouldn't be talking about it due to competitive issues.

We obviously know the package exists. We have the same OC and it was in the playbook last year. I mean, it's probably 4 plays. If they wanted to use it, they'd use it.

They don't, and while I don't have a strong feeling about the QB controversy... I will say that it's hard for me to understand why you don't work those plays into our current offense.

That's not what Woodyard said. He was also asked about preparing for Miami when the wildcat was still relatively new. He said it was a huge pain in the ass due to all the additional material and time. Why would we not put it out there and tie up opposing team resources during the week? Are we saving it for a last moment goal line scoring opportunity that would win us the game? Something like a 14-17 game...... Maybe we will unveil it in the playoffs.

Micanopy
09-28-2011, 11:04 PM
i almost regret the fox hiring at this point, because of this:

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_18977269?utm_medium=facebook



this guy doesnt even have a set of plays available for a guy to do what he truly does best! its not about putting the best guys on the field or doing what it takes to win anymore, its about ego and playing into the fragile mindset of a QB that has amassed a 6-22 record or something similar!

It may be larger than Fox.

HAT
09-28-2011, 11:14 PM
I bet you were busy..... being Ortons nut sucker must be more demanding after he blows games.

does he eat pineaple for you at least?

You've been an insufferable bore for months on end now OABB....Much in the same way as TGN or MacGuano.....

But that was ****ING funny with a capital F. Reppage!

^5:strong:Hilarious!

cutthemdown
09-28-2011, 11:23 PM
I didn't like his hire..Remember how he kept on starting Jake though he sucks.

He actually has a history of yanking Jake for other qbs through the yrs for a game here and there. He's not afraid to bench Orton IMO. We keep losing he will do it. Really though we are like what 6 points from being 3-0. Broncos are at least staying in games and the defense looks a lot better.

Agamemnon
09-29-2011, 05:08 AM
The current coaching staff is trying to put in a winning mentality or at least get the players to compete hard through all four quarters.


By starting Orton... Hilarious!

fontaine
09-29-2011, 05:29 AM
By starting Orton... Hilarious!

Well, I don't like it either, but we have seen the players work hard and actually improve game to game like the DL/OL.

Drek
09-29-2011, 07:13 AM
He actually has a history of yanking Jake for other qbs through the yrs for a game here and there. He's not afraid to bench Orton IMO. We keep losing he will do it. Really though we are like what 6 points from being 3-0. Broncos are at least staying in games and the defense looks a lot better.

We also haven't played a single really good team.

Oakland worked hard to give that game back. They physically dominated this team and we should have lost by double digits.

Against Tennessee we played a near flawless game from a penalties standpoint while the Titans did just the opposite. We still lost.

Our one win is against the Bengals at home. The Bengals suck and we barely got away with a win.

alkemical
09-29-2011, 07:23 AM
We also haven't played a single really good team.

Oakland worked hard to give that game back. They physically dominated this team and we should have lost by double digits.

Against Tennessee we played a near flawless game from a penalties standpoint while the Titans did just the opposite. We still lost.

Our one win is against the Bengals at home. The Bengals suck and we barely got away with a win.

It's going to be a long year, but I do admit, the consistency is there. It just sucks. :)

jhns
09-29-2011, 07:30 AM
Well, I don't like it either, but we have seen the players work hard and actually improve game to game like the DL/OL.

They worked harder with Tebow in late last season. I'm not sure how snyone could deny this after they all played much better and looked a lot more fired up. So they play harder for Tebow and Tebow has oroven he can put more points on the board. The smart thing to do here is start Orton, the inferior QB!

WolfpackGuy
09-29-2011, 07:31 AM
We also haven't played a single really good team.

Oakland worked hard to give that game back. They physically dominated this team and we should have lost by double digits.

Against Tennessee we played a near flawless game from a penalties standpoint while the Titans did just the opposite. We still lost.

Our one win is against the Bengals at home. The Bengals suck and we barely got away with a win.

This, basically.

Dedhed
09-29-2011, 12:13 PM
Briefly. Busy at work.


It's funny how you get busy with work after every Orton failfest.

Drek
09-29-2011, 12:49 PM
Well, I don't like it either, but we have seen the players work hard and actually improve game to game like the DL/OL.

The 2010 Broncos packed it in week 7 of last season and didn't show a glimpse of waking back up until Tebow became the starter, at which point they showed more intensity and effort than they had all last season.

fontaine
09-29-2011, 01:54 PM
The 2010 Broncos packed it in week 7 of last season and didn't show a glimpse of waking back up until Tebow became the starter, at which point they showed more intensity and effort than they had all last season.

Good, let's hope that's still the case when Tebow starts this year.