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View Full Version : *update* Here's the proof - Tebow > Orton > Elway


IHaveALight
09-25-2011, 05:31 PM
Kyle Orton 2011 weeks 1-3
Comp 63 | Att 110 | 57% | Yards 672 | TD 5 | INT 3 | Sack 8 | Fumble Lost 2 | Rush 2 | Yards 11 | TD 0
Team Stats
Yards / Game 286 | Points / Game 19

Tim Tebow 2010 weeks 14-16
Comp 40 | Att 81 | 49% | Yards 651 | TD 4 | INT 3 | Sack 6 | Fumble Lost 0 | Rush 31 | Yards 199 | TD 3
Team Stats
Yards / Game 334 | Points / Game 25

John Elway 1983 weeks 3, 7 and 8 (Elway's first 3 full games)
Comp 43 | Att 92 | 47% | Yards 530 | TD 1 | INT 6 | Sack | Fumble Lost | Rush 8 | Yards 62 | TD 1
Team Stats
Yards / Game 278 | Points / Game 12

All this while Tebow was playing against better opponents with an inferior team, inferior coach and at a time when the games were meaningless because the Broncos had already been eliminated from playoff contention. Not to mention Tebow was a rookie and Orton is in his 7th year now.
Seriously, how can anyone say Orton gives the team the best chance to win?

**Updated with Elway's first 3 full games (felt it was important to add since Elway is the one running the show right now)

And one more observation. Yes I know Tebow can be all over the place at times and looks “over caffeinated”. But this is obviously due to his lack of experience, the only way for him to get past that is going to be to get live snaps and become comfortable out there. I'm sure Elway probably looked the same way his first 3 games.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 05:32 PM
A+ thread, would read again.

OABB
09-25-2011, 05:33 PM
25 ppg...is that good?

Bronx33
09-25-2011, 05:35 PM
Macgruber would be proud

Lolad
09-25-2011, 05:38 PM
Unless we are the SB ravens does this staff seriously believe we will win putting up 14 points?

OABB
09-25-2011, 05:42 PM
Unless we are the SB ravens does this staff seriously believe we will win putting up 14 points?

well yeah....If they wanted to score more they might have played the guy who improves our point production by almost a td in stat to stat comparison...or at least let him play where he has been effective in the rz.

im sure the escalator theory is wrong...

mkporter
09-25-2011, 05:50 PM
Why has no one compared Orton and Tebow's performance before? Brilliant!

TheReverend
09-25-2011, 05:59 PM
Why has no one compared Orton and Tebow's performance before? Brilliant!

Clearly the staff hasnt

barryr
09-25-2011, 06:01 PM
We all know pretty much what Tebow can do that Orton can't, but what exactly does Orton do that is so much better than Tebow? It certianly isn't winning games whatever it is.

ghwk
09-25-2011, 06:07 PM
We so needed another thread like this.

AZorange1
09-25-2011, 06:10 PM
First and goal at the Tenessee 2 yard line and we end up with 0, squat, nada. All this while a guy named Tebow sits on the bench watching. You know, the guy that gets touchdowns running and passing, the dude that weighs 245 with the big guns, Ya, that guy.

TheReverend
09-25-2011, 06:10 PM
We all know pretty much what Tebow can do that Orton can't, but what exactly does Orton do that is so much better than Tebow? It certianly isn't winning games whatever it is.

The only thing Orton does better than Tebow:











Brandon Lloyd

barryr
09-25-2011, 06:12 PM
First and goal at the Tenessee 2 yard line and we end up with 0, squat, nada. All this while a guy named Tebow sits on the bench watching. You know, the guy that gets touchdowns running and passing, the dude that weighs 245 with the big guns, Ya, that guy.

I have grown tired watching Orton look, look, take a sack or throw the ball away and take a hit and not delivering much if the first, intended receiver isn't open. This has gotten way old with the same repeated results over and over again.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 06:13 PM
The only thing Orton does better than Tebow:











Brandon Lloyd

Also, chugging entire bottles of Jack.

Jay3
09-25-2011, 06:16 PM
My opinion of Tebow is falling each week. Because I look at Orton and think "this is they guy they wanted in there instead of Tebow?"

mkporter
09-25-2011, 06:20 PM
The only thing Orton does better than Tebow:











Brandon Lloyd

I think Lloyd had better stats with Tebow in... or do you Orton is better at having sex with Lloyd? Because we know Orton is better at that.

Pick Six
09-25-2011, 06:21 PM
Other teams barely had the chance to have game film on Tebow. Therefore, adjustments by the opponent were hard to do. Meanwhile, Orton's play has been dissected by the opponent for a while. This doesn't prove that Tebow is better than Orton. They basically have the same stats, and Orton doesn't have the "surprise factor" that Tebow possessed...

AZorange1
09-25-2011, 06:22 PM
I have grown tired watching Orton look, look, take a sack or throw the ball away and take a hit and not delivering much if the first, intended receiver isn't open. This has gotten way old with the same repeated results over and over again.

I am sure that this will be considered blasphemy, but I blame Elway for the decision making process that is NOT going on. You want to win games, put Tebow in on 1st and goal at the two. A fore sure bet he gets it in (all 245 lbs of him) on first or second down instead of ending up with 0, 0, 0's. (and giving it back at a fourth down failure). Wait, I forgot, Tebow is not an NFL quality quarterback. Bullsh----*&%

TheReverend
09-25-2011, 06:24 PM
I think Lloyd had better stats with Tebow in... or do you Orton is better at having sex with Lloyd? Because we know Orton is better at that.

:thanku:

WABronco
09-25-2011, 06:28 PM
I think Lloyd had better stats with Tebow in... or do you Orton is better at having sex with Lloyd? Because we know Orton is better at that.

Lloyd: /returns to huddle angrily "Dammit Kyle, I was open deep."

Orton: /wry smile "Oh, you always are."

Tebow: /over headset "The Lord curses you devilish fiends!"

Momentum
09-25-2011, 06:32 PM
Tebow played against worst teams, playing for nothing, and threw 49%.

What was the point of this thread again?

Oh yeah, to compare an average QB (Orton) to garbage.

OABB
09-25-2011, 06:38 PM
Tebow played against worst teams, playing for nothing, and threw 49%.

What was the point of this thread again?

Oh yeah, to compare an average QB (Orton) to garbage.

lol! yeah..its the tebow fans that are culty.....

OBF1
09-25-2011, 06:40 PM
Tebow played against worst teams, playing for nothing, and threw 49%.

What was the point of this thread again?

Oh yeah, to compare an average QB (Orton) to garbage.

4 wins, 12 losses since the start of last season is average to you??? Hate to see your average looking girlfriend, Just sayin

OBF1
09-25-2011, 06:41 PM
I think Lloyd had better stats with Tebow in... or do you Orton is better at having sex with Lloyd? Because we know Orton is better at that.

Butt Pirates, I knew it!Booya!

OABB
09-25-2011, 06:43 PM
Tebow played against worst teams, playing for nothing, and threw 49%.

What was the point of this thread again?

Oh yeah, to compare an average QB (Orton) to garbage.

i cant stop laughing at how ****ing stupid this post is...


jesus. what a ****ing tool. thanks for the laugh!

Broncos4Life
09-25-2011, 06:43 PM
Tebow played against worst teams, playing for nothing, and threw 49%.

What was the point of this thread again?

Oh yeah, to compare an average QB (Orton) to garbage.

Orton isn't even an average QB.:kiddingme He isn't even starting QB material. Let me guess... Suck for Luck or Barkley......

::)

TheReverend
09-25-2011, 06:45 PM
Tebow played against worst teams, playing for nothing, and threw 49%.

What was the point of this thread again?

Oh yeah, to compare an average QB (Orton) to garbage.

:spit:

What and what?

OABB
09-25-2011, 06:46 PM
:spit:

What and what?

its just so ****ing stupid. more proof that the hateboners just make **** up....unbelievable.

IHaveALight
09-25-2011, 06:52 PM
Tebow played against worst teams, playing for nothing, and threw 49%.

What was the point of this thread again?

Oh yeah, to compare an average QB (Orton) to garbage.

Funny how Tebow blows Orton away in most of the stats, but yet you choose this one as the tell all. I'll take 49% over 57% every time if it means 48 more yards per game, 6 more points per game and .67 less turnovers per game.

broncocalijohn
09-25-2011, 06:55 PM
Macgruber would be proud

Alpha Seirra, not so much. He needs to cut and paste the same stats as he does.

Ihavealight settled it.

maher_tyler
09-25-2011, 06:55 PM
25 ppg...is that good?

25 ppg would put us at 3-0!

Gcver2ver3
09-25-2011, 06:58 PM
i'd start tebow over orton for no other reason than to see all the batted balls at the line of scrimmage come to an end...

OABB
09-25-2011, 06:59 PM
25 ppg would put us at 3-0!

this.


#bestchancetowin

IHaveALight
09-25-2011, 07:02 PM
Other teams barely had the chance to have game film on Tebow. Therefore, adjustments by the opponent were hard to do. Meanwhile, Orton's play has been dissected by the opponent for a while. This doesn't prove that Tebow is better than Orton. They basically have the same stats, and Orton doesn't have the "surprise factor" that Tebow possessed...

You seriously believe that? First of all if teams have to adjust to Tebow and game plan around him because of his "surprise factor" that's a benefit to the team weather they had film or not because it allows the Broncos to change things up week to week and keep them guessing. Not to mention you think that one factor is greater than the fact that Tebow was playing for a fill in coach with a historically ****ty team that had already packed it in for the year? And while they had similar passing stats, Tebow's rushing stats and the overal team stats because of that set him apart from Orton by far.

TheReverend
09-25-2011, 07:05 PM
Other teams barely had the chance to have game film on Tebow. Therefore, adjustments by the opponent were hard to do. Meanwhile, Orton's play has been dissected by the opponent for a while. This doesn't prove that Tebow is better than Orton. They basically have the same stats, and Orton doesn't have the "surprise factor" that Tebow possessed...

LOL

Ah the ole "Starting a rookie project QB over a 6 year vet is a preparation advantage!" argument.

Don't be stupid.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-25-2011, 07:11 PM
That wily Orton... he's got to be so difficult to gameplan against. The opposition probably spends a good five minutes talking about how he's not going to beat you.

TheReverend
09-25-2011, 07:15 PM
That wily Orton... he's got to be so difficult to gameplan against. The opposition probably spends a good five minutes talking about how he's not going to beat you.

I'll bet they spend hours watching game film with popcorn and laughing. That's a morale booster for sure.

Bronx33
09-25-2011, 07:15 PM
That wily Orton... he's got to be so difficult to gameplan against. The opposition probably spends a good five minutes talking about how he's not going to beat you.


Collapse his pocket and he either goes down or throws it away there are no variables with orton when hes flushed out of the pocket (none)

Dr. Broncenstein
09-25-2011, 07:21 PM
Collapse his pocket and he either goes down or throws it away there are no variables with orton when hes flushed out of the pocket (none)

I'm wondering why the opposing defense would expend the effort to rush Orton. Just stand there and hold up your arms.

GreatBronco16
09-25-2011, 07:26 PM
Collapse his pocket and he either goes down or throws it away there are no variables with orton when hes flushed out of the pocket (none)

Sure there is. It's pretty damn funny to see Orton take off running needing 7 yards for the first down, and he slides 2 yards past the LOS.

Bronx33
09-25-2011, 07:30 PM
Sure there is. It's pretty damn funny to see Orton take off running needing 7 yards for the first down, and he slides 2 yards past the LOS.


Its like hes running in mud.

GreatBronco16
09-25-2011, 07:34 PM
Someone make an avi of him running. He looks damn funny when he does. It's like he never learned how to run. Little Forrest with the leg braces on maybe???

ColoradoDarin
09-25-2011, 07:47 PM
Someone make an avi of him running. He looks damn funny when he does. It's like he never learned how to run. Little Forrest with the leg braces on maybe???

Orton makes Jason Elam look like Chris Johnson.

/still remembers that fake figgie that Elam ran hilariously.

Bronx33
09-25-2011, 07:52 PM
Question is can orton beat this guy?


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WHHkn2bJiLU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

broncocalijohn
09-25-2011, 07:59 PM
Question is can orton beat this guy?


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WHHkn2bJiLU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just watched the other video after this one and it had the Masters 100 meter run for 75 years and older. The starting gun went off and the old farts in lane 3 and 6 went down with a heart attack. BTW, Orton would have came in 3rd place in that event according to the times.

ghwk
09-25-2011, 09:39 PM
Question is can orton beat this guy?


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WHHkn2bJiLU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No.

bowtown
09-25-2011, 09:41 PM
Question is can orton beat this guy?


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WHHkn2bJiLU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Clearly juicing.

barryr
09-25-2011, 09:47 PM
There are plenty of slow QB's, but the good ones seem to know how to get out of the pocket and still make big plays down the field or move just enough in the pocket and still find someone open just in time.

We have seen Orton and he does neither very well. If the intended receiver is not open, then either Orton is getting sacked, or about to get hit as he throws the ball away, or forces a bad throw for a pick. Rarely does something good come out of such a situation. He does not seem capable of making the quick read and finding the open guy if having to make a sudden decision, much less the ability to give himself enough time to get rid of the ball for a positive play.

This is why, especially in the red zone and short yardage, Tebow needs to be in the game at least during those times if not for the whole game. He makes the defenses respect his scrambling ability and not able to just stay with their receivers since someone has to come up to tackle him if he takes off, so could leave someone open. No defense has such worries with Orton.

The Bronco offense the last few years has been as bland and dull since I can remember. Well, basically the same when Griese was the QB.

jhns
09-25-2011, 09:49 PM
Fox is starting to make me dislike him with all this Orton love. No coach that starts Orton should be running this team.

BroncoBuff
09-25-2011, 10:08 PM
Orton's the wrong man in the wrong job at the wrong time.

There is no evident conceivable logic why Tebow is not starting. This is the rebuild year of all rebuild years, moreso than any Broncos season ever imo.

If it's money, then why re-sign Champ? He sold his house, or wanted to, Falcons made an offer, or almost did.

I know this seems a bit outside the box, but my theory is it's a personality thing, a maturity thing. I posted about that last week, said that if he was serious about becoming the leader of this offense, he should have called all the youngsters ... Decker, Demaryous, Knowshon, Green, Julius Thomas, maybe Walton ... get everybody together during the lockout, pay their way like Orton did to for the Vegas trip, and work on some chemistry. A few people pooh-poohed that thought ... but today the color guy talked about how Oreton worked out with Decker and others. Something tells me TT is immature spoiled kid.

barryr
09-25-2011, 10:15 PM
Orton's the wrong man in the wrong job at the wrong time.

There is no evident conceivable logic why Tebow is not starting. This is the rebuild year of all rebuild years, moreso than any Broncos season ever imo.

If it's money, then why re-sign Champ? He sold his house, or wanted to, Falcons made an offer, or almost did.

I know this seems a bit outside the box, but my theory is it's a personality thing, a maturity thing. I posted about that last week, said that if he was serious about becoming the leader of this offense, he should have called all the youngsters ... Decker, Demaryous, Knowshon, Green, Julius Thomas, maybe Walton ... get everybody together during the lockout, pay their way like Orton did to for the Vegas trip, and work on some chemistry. A few people pooh-poohed that thought ... but today the color guy talked about how Oreton worked out with Decker and others. Something tells me TT is immature spoiled kid.

I agree in that I think Orton to be successful needs a lot more help around him than your better QB's need and this team simply does not have that kind of help right now, so he stands out in a negative way. He needs guys that can take short passes and make them long ones, but they don't do much of that. They don't get many big runs either. The defense the last many years has not been good at forcing turnovers, much less scoring off of turnovers. The special teams has not been great for many years either and they lose the battle of field position in most games too. So it becomes all on Orton too often and too often, he can not deliver since he is not a great QB.

montrose
09-25-2011, 10:20 PM
Orton's the wrong man in the wrong job at the wrong time.

There is no evident conceivable logic why Tebow is not starting. This is the rebuild year of all rebuild years, moreso than any Broncos season ever imo.

If it's money, then why re-sign Champ? He sold his house, or wanted to, Falcons made an offer, or almost did.

I know this seems a bit outside the box, but my theory is it's a personality thing, a maturity thing. I posted about that last week, said that if he was serious about becoming the leader of this offense, he should have called all the youngsters ... Decker, Demaryous, Knowshon, Green, Julius Thomas, maybe Walton ... get everybody together during the lockout, pay their way like Orton did to for the Vegas trip, and work on some chemistry. A few people pooh-poohed that thought ... but today the color guy talked about how Oreton worked out with Decker and others. Something tells me TT is immature spoiled kid.

Tebow flew out the WRs to Florida so they did get some work in, but not a full scale thing.

The Broncos have been pretty clear from the moment Miami balked at giving Orton a Kolb-deal, the most important thing for them this season is to win as many games as possible, period. Winning 5 games is off the charts more important than winning 4, and 6 wins would be unreal compared to 5. You get the point, no focus on the future or building a champion- just unaltered, short sighted, tunnel vision to reduce the bad taste of ONE bad season. And John Fox believes, by a very wide margin, that Kyle Orton- playing the exact way he did today- gives the team their best chance to win. In Fox's own words to the CBS crew Saturday, "He's our QB, he's a veteran and knows the offense as well as the coaches."

And just like Seattle is now dealing with the consequences of similar choices last year; the Broncos will suffer in the long run for their decisions.

But hey, Josh McDaniels got fired so its all good!

BroncoBuff
09-25-2011, 10:27 PM
Tebow flew out the WRs to Florida so they did get some work in, but not a full scale thing.
Uh, errr ... might've got a fact or two wrong there.

The Broncos have been pretty clear from the moment Miami balked at giving Orton a Kolb-deal, the most important thing for them this season is to win as many games as possible, period. Winning 5 games is off the charts more important than winning 4, and 6 wins would be unreal compared to 5.
How do you figure? In my opinion this is the mother of all rebuilding years, never seen one like it for the Broncos (I suppose in large part because John played 16 years).

And now we're saddled with this riddle called Tim Tebow. Now's the time, nothing's happening, so now's the time. Sink or swim.

TD4HOF
09-25-2011, 10:30 PM
I don't understand. Why is Tebow not starting? I don't care if people like him or not. Gimme a friggin' break. The only possible explanation in my mind is that Fox may be playing headgames with Tebow with an eye on the future.

Hamrob
09-25-2011, 10:30 PM
Elway and Fox will play Tebow. But, first they will make sure he doesn't earn all those incentives.

Also, you have to understand what was/is on the line for these guys...especially, Elway.

The NFL is a political game. You have guys coming out saying that Tebow will never be a QB in this league and not so many trying to defend him. If you are Elway, you're just not going to take the chance that he fails and you get strapped with the Rep that you have no clue what you are doing.

Strategically, it's better to let Orton play....let the fans call for Tebow...let the nay-sayers calm down to where even they say...what-the-hell, you might as well give him a shot...since the season is over.

Is it the ballsy call...no. But, if you are an X-star QB who is trying to make his name as an Executive, you have to be cautious coming out of the gate.

I think Tebow plays after the buy week or shortly thereafter. Elway will want to see what Tebow can do before the end of the season. He has a lot riding on it. He has to decide whether to go with Tebow next year or draft a guy in the first round. You don't draft a guy in the first round unless he is your QB of the future. McD is gone...so, Tebow is on his own. But, if Elway drafts a guy in the first...he is tying his future to that kid (period).

We will play better than expected this year.....but, we are not a playoff team. We will lose the next two weeks and be 1-4. If Orton plays o.k during the next two weeks, then he will get the nod coming out of the bye week. If he really sucks it up in both games...and the fans have his ass in Denver against the Chargers. That will be all she wrote for him.

BroncoBuff
09-25-2011, 10:31 PM
Suck for Luck is ridiculous, preposterous ... but look who we got for sucking last year! Von's a game-changer, we need more of those guys. We won Super Bowls with an historic compilation of offensive talent, two of the most talented offensive teams in league history. It's really really hard to win Super Bowls ... stop limping to 5 and 6 win seasons, and we'll get there sooner.

NFLBRONCO
09-25-2011, 10:39 PM
Coaches won't switch vet QB's losing by 3.

NFLBRONCO
09-25-2011, 10:42 PM
Suck for Luck is ridiculous, preposterous ... but look who we got for sucking last year! Von's a game-changer, we need more of those guys. We won Super Bowls with an historic compilation of offensive talent, two of the most talented offensive teams in league history. It's really really hard to win Super Bowls ... stop limping to 5 and 6 win seasons, and we'll get there sooner.

I want to win superbowls but, right now we more game changers. We need to make most of our drafts in our lean years.

Simple Jake
09-25-2011, 10:51 PM
I want Tebow starting, but not next week.. at least not for his first start of the season.. that would be rough for a first start of the season

montrose
09-25-2011, 10:54 PM
Uh, errr ... might've got a fact or two wrong there.

Yeah Klis reported it, he flew out Gaffney, Britt Davis and Decker to Jacksonville. I agree with your take, especially on winning over the younger players.

How do you figure? In my opinion this is the mother of all rebuilding years, never seen one like it for the Broncos (I suppose in large part because John played 16 years).

It should be, but Elway snapping at fans wanting to Suck for Luck, the obnoxious playing of vets over youngsters that included Miller being benched for Haggan, all the signs are there. Elway said last week he was sick to his stomach at the end of the Bengals game that they might lose and he took out fox and Xanders to celebrate the win at his restaurant.

And now we're saddled with this riddle called Tim Tebow. Now's the time, nothing's happening, so now's the time. Sink or swim.

Couldnt agree more my friend, but I just dont think they believe he can play, period. If Orton went down today, I have little doubt Quinn would've come in. It's so sad, it'll be Orton till the end of the year, then a scrub veteran QB in free agency.

TheReverend
09-25-2011, 10:56 PM
Tebow flew out the WRs to Florida so they did get some work in, but not a full scale thing.

The Broncos have been pretty clear from the moment Miami balked at giving Orton a Kolb-deal, the most important thing for them this season is to win as many games as possible, period. Winning 5 games is off the charts more important than winning 4, and 6 wins would be unreal compared to 5. You get the point, no focus on the future or building a champion- just unaltered, short sighted, tunnel vision to reduce the bad taste of ONE bad season. And John Fox believes, by a very wide margin, that Kyle Orton- playing the exact way he did today- gives the team their best chance to win. In Fox's own words to the CBS crew Saturday, "He's our QB, he's a veteran and knows the offense as well as the coaches."

And just like Seattle is now dealing with the consequences of similar choices last year; the Broncos will suffer in the long run for their decisions.

But hey, Josh McDaniels got fired so its all good!

1. At least Seattle got a playoff win out of it. I'll be surprised if Denver gets a 4th win on the season out of it.

2. Judging from McDaniels performance in StL so far, it IS all good in comparison.

BroncoBuff
09-25-2011, 11:08 PM
Obnoxious playing of vets over youngsters that included Miller being benched for Haggan, all the signs are there.Didn't hear about that ... fill me in a bit there?


Elway said last week he was sick to his stomach at the end of the Bengals game that they might lose and he took out fox and Xanders to celebrate the win at his restaurant.
Sounds a bit overdramatic ... he doesn't think we're contenders, doesn't think he'll be judged by this year's results, does he?

Knowitall Another theory of mine: Success and longevity at this level requires a competitive fire that borders on pathology ... Elway selling his pool table, Urban Meyer with chest pains. Stories of Reeves and Ditka and some of the Cowboys playing bloody knuckles until they were actually bloody.

(Antonym: See Marinovich, Todd; Russell, Jamarcus)


It's so sad, it'll be Orton till the end of the year, then a scrub veteran QB in free agency.
We already have two of those freaking guys!

Maximus
09-25-2011, 11:09 PM
what exactly does Orton do that is so much better than Tebow?

I'll play the game with you for a minute. KY can count odd numbers better than TeBlows... 3, 5, 7

maven
09-25-2011, 11:34 PM
Even if the team heads into the bye 1-4, I still expect to see Orton out there because the team still isn't mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

People wanting change will have a long wait with this staff.

fontaine
09-26-2011, 02:22 AM
It's all about expectations.

Orton got the job because the coaches expected a veteran QB to do two basic things:
1. Take care of the football
2. Complete the high percentage passes as a pocket passer

I don't blame them for starting Orton when in theory (and in practice sessions) he was the better option in those circumstances.

But the bottom line is that Orton hasn't been playing like a veteran and meeting those expectations.

Yes, some of it's on the OL etc but Orton's individual play from his lack of accuracy for passes longer than 10 yards, to 5 turnovers in three games, to a complete inability to even look downfield (1 pass thrown over 20 yards), and simply being a total statue back there are all his own failings rather than the OL/run game etc etc.

It's only a matter of a few weeks now anyway. Because we're not getting any kind of veteran QB play/leadership from Orton the staff are going to increase Tebow's reps, start installing some base plays for him, and most importantly get Moreno healthy to be a safety outlet for him to aim for a change after tbe bye where the extra week will help Tebow get ready.

Right now, the reality is that Orton is playing like a rookie QB and if that's all he's able to do then Tebow can do no worse.

rmsanger
09-26-2011, 05:30 AM
Our team sucks with either at the helm, once you get it all the rable rable rable becomes pointless.

gunns
09-26-2011, 05:48 AM
Please, for the love of God and all that is holy, please start Tebow. SAVE THE MANE!

:pray:

BroncoBuff
09-26-2011, 05:58 AM
:pray:

Drek
09-26-2011, 06:39 AM
How do you figure? In my opinion this is the mother of all rebuilding years, never seen one like it for the Broncos (I suppose in large part because John played 16 years).

And now we're saddled with this riddle called Tim Tebow. Now's the time, nothing's happening, so now's the time. Sink or swim.
Extended Champ.
Restructured Dawkins' deal so he could be retained.
Biggest signing in FA was a 31 year old DT.
Second biggest FA signing was a 29 year old retread RB.
Starting Orton.
Drafting guys they could plug into starting positions ASAP (Miller, Moore, Franklin for example).

Just a few examples of trying to win now I could come up with, versus the more long term options.

I could see doing a few of them (keeping Champ and Dawkins, drafting a few immediate starters) but taken as a whole it paints a picture of a franchise who would gladly sell their future for an 8-8 season, or anything close to it.

ColoradoDarin
09-26-2011, 07:05 AM
Suck for Luck is ridiculous, preposterous ... but look who we got for sucking last year! Von's a game-changer, we need more of those guys. We won Super Bowls with an historic compilation of offensive talent, two of the most talented offensive teams in league history. It's really really hard to win Super Bowls ... stop limping to 5 and 6 win seasons, and we'll get there sooner.

Prior to winning back to back Superbowls, our team went:

13-3 (should have won the SB that year too)
8-8
7-9
9-7
8-8

How did we ever amass all that talent without drafting in the Top 5 those years? We're in this talent hole because we haven't drafted well for 10 years. 2011 looks a lot better than previous years (even beyond Von), so I hope that problem is solved.

A better case of Suck for Luck would be made that we won those Superbowls because we had the best QB the game has ever seen. That assumes Luck is a true franchise QB and not a David Carr or Alex Smith. Some of us even believe that QB might be on the roster already - it'd be nice to see if we have it or if we still need to address it.

jhns
09-26-2011, 07:10 AM
We can't replace Orton guys. Who else could possibly lead us to the ****ty offensive output that he does? There is just no one else that can get us an offense that ranks in the 20s like Orton can!

ghwk
09-26-2011, 07:21 AM
Please, for the love of God and all that is holy, please start Tebow. SAVE THE MANE!

:pray:

I'll start another Tebow thread if that will help.???

BroncoBuff
09-26-2011, 07:23 AM
How did we ever amass all that talent without drafting in the Top 5 those years? We're in this talent hole because we haven't drafted well for 10 years.

Good points, but a big chunk of that talent was two of the best late round picks ever, Shannon Sharpe and TD of course, plus Nalen late too, plus free agents McCaffrey and Rod Smith. Now THAT was talent evaluation.

I agree we haven't drafted well in 10, but I also believe it's about the late rounds, lots of it. Teams get one or two marquee picks, you can draft out of Street and Smiths as the old saying goes. But there's 4, 5, 6 late round picks. There's lots more later picks than marquee picks, you gotta do your homework, gotta maximize value there. Don't ... make ... me ... say ... it .... aGAIN ... arrrggghhhJIMGOODMAN!

IHaveALight
09-26-2011, 07:36 AM
The point is to own the draft no matter how the team finishes the year before. Look at what the Steelers and Patriots do.

TheReverend
09-26-2011, 07:57 AM
Please, for the love of God and all that is holy, please start Tebow. SAVE THE MANE!

:pray:

3 more weeks (2 more games). :thumbsup:



If it doesn't happen then, Suck for Luck is a reality, imo.

teknic
09-26-2011, 08:07 AM
3 more weeks (2 more games). :thumbsup:



If it doesn't happen then, Suck for Luck is a reality, imo.

I would be okay with taking a QB this year, but I wouldn't be okay with drafting a QB before giving Tebow a chance to start. That would just prove that the front office is completely incompetent.

IHaveALight
09-26-2011, 10:45 AM
Updated original post, maybe if I get a chance later I'll look up Orton's first 3 full games to and see how those compare.