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View Full Version : John Elway has earned criticism at this point.


Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:00 PM
Promises made about addressing the DT position that were lies.

Using Tebow to sell season tickets, yet sticking with Kyle Orton, we bought tickets and are stuck with THIS?

Condescending tweets about the QB position.


John, you were a bold, exciting QB, a leader of this team, stop backing a guy who is the polar opposite of you. Make the call, make the change at the only position on the field that could change anything at this point. Soon it will be too late and this year will be lost.

Make the call John, whichever John has to make the call. Please. Being a Broncos fan at this point is just deflating.

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:01 PM
Being a good QB doesn't qualify you to run a team.

SoCalBronco
09-25-2011, 03:01 PM
Being a good QB doesn't qualify you to run a team.

:thumbsup:

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:02 PM
Soon it will be too late and this year will be lost.

Season was lost before we took a snap, even if Tebow were to start from day 1. We were never going to do anything meaningful this year. We're rebuilding.

Gort
09-25-2011, 03:02 PM
methinks John Elway is under the spell of an ex-Raiders cheerleader. however, she may be a robot secretly controlled by Crazy Al. shhhh! don't tell gaffney.

DivineBronco
09-25-2011, 03:04 PM
Promises made about addressing the DT position that were lies.

Using Tebow to sell season tickets, yet sticking with Kyle Orton, we bought tickets and are stuck with THIS?

Condescending tweets about the QB position.


John, you were a bold, exciting QB, a leader of this team, stop backing a guy who is the polar opposite of you. Make the call, make the change at the only position on the field that could change anything at this point. Soon it will be too late and this year will be lost.

Make the call John, whichever John has to make the call. Please. Being a Broncos fan at this point is just deflating.

you speak the truth

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm expecting flack for this, but at this point, I don't care, I had more hope for the season this time last year than I do today.

If you make yourself the face of the team expect criticism when the teams sucks.

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Season was lost before we took a snap, even if Tebow were to start from day 1. We were never going to do anything meaningful this year. We're rebuilding.

Right, but if that is the case why do you play a QB who will leave in a year? Why not give the only QB whos contract runs beyond this year a shot?

SonOfLe-loLang
09-25-2011, 03:06 PM
I dont see why we couldnt win now. We're actually playing pretty solid defense without three of our best defensive players on the field.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Being a good QB doesn't qualify you to run a team.

Yep. But you're going to get the hate for saying it. Most Broncos fans can't separate their love for Elway as a player with him as a football exec.

oubronco
09-25-2011, 03:06 PM
This team wasn't winning more than 4-5 games no matter what

mkporter
09-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Promises made about addressing the DT position that were lies.

Using Tebow to sell season tickets, yet sticking with Kyle Orton, we bought tickets and are stuck with THIS?

Condescending tweets about the QB position.


John, you were a bold, exciting QB, a leader of this team, stop backing a guy who is the polar opposite of you. Make the call, make the change at the only position on the field that could change anything at this point. Soon it will be too late and this year will be lost.

Make the call John, whichever John has to make the call. Please. Being a Broncos fan at this point is just deflating.

Our top two free agent DT signings (Thomas & Warren) have been injured. Our #3 DT signing (Bunkley) has played well. Second straight week we've had very good run defense. Not sure why you think we didn't address the DT position.

Agree on Orton.

Overall, this team appears to be playing better than last year's team. I'm not saying they've done a brilliant job, but the worst part of the team last year was not the QB, it was the entire defense. The defense is playing much better. My hope is that they want to give Tebow more time to learn before throwing him out there. (Not agreeing on this course of action, just my best hope given what we've seen so far)

mkporter
09-25-2011, 03:07 PM
I dont see why we couldnt win now. We're actually playing pretty solid defense without three of our best defensive players on the field.

Shhh... that doesn't count when evaluating the new staff.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:07 PM
On a positive for John, I think we can all agree the draft was good.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:07 PM
Season was lost before we took a snap, even if Tebow were to start from day 1. We were never going to do anything meaningful this year. We're rebuilding.

All the more reason to not start the lameduck vet that isn't under contract beyond this season. Unless they are just trying to save some money...

bronco militia
09-25-2011, 03:09 PM
I don't have a problem with the style of play. I think the coaches have done the best they can with the curent talent on the roster.

This teams needs better players

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:09 PM
On a positive for John, I think we can all agree the draft was good.

Von Miller appears to be good. The rest? Haven't seen anything yet to make me think they are that great. But I don't judge drafts until a couple years after the fact.

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:09 PM
This team wasn't winning more than 4-5 games no matter what

Perhaps, but Cam Newton was going to be a major bust. Buffalo and Detroit are 3 - 0. Not everything is written in stone.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:09 PM
All the more reason to not start the lameduck vet that isn't under contract beyond this season. Unless they are just trying to save some money...

Agreed. You and I have been on the same side on this since day 1. I'd be waving the Orton banner if I thought we had the team around him (a la Baltimore with Dilfer) to win some games. But we clearly do not. I (we) would rather win with the young guy to see what he can do.

The Joker
09-25-2011, 03:09 PM
Season was lost before we took a snap, even if Tebow were to start from day 1. We were never going to do anything meaningful this year. We're rebuilding.

Exactly, so why start a journeyman who'll be out of here after this season when you have a first round QB on the bench?

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:10 PM
Von Miller appears to be good. The rest? Haven't seen anything yet to make me think they are that great. But I don't judge drafts until a couple years after the fact.

Fair enough. Although I think there's reason for at least optimism with Franklin, Moore, and the TE. We need Moore to be good badly. Need a good young safety.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:10 PM
Shhh... that doesn't count when evaluating the new staff.

When our mediocre offense has become a bottom feeder at the same time, yeah it doesn't count for much.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:10 PM
Exactly, so why start a journeyman who'll be out of here after this season when you have a first round QB on the bench?

Preaching to the choir. I'd much rather lose with Tebow than Orton.

oubronco
09-25-2011, 03:11 PM
Perhaps, but Cam Newton was going to be a major bust. Buffalo and Detroit are 3 - 0. Not everything is written in stone.

No but it will even out it always does. The best teams always rise to the top as the season goes along

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:11 PM
On a positive for John, I think we can all agree the draft was good.

Von Miller was absolutely an excellent choice. Since then?

The draft was excellent, Moore, Franklin, Thomas are all starters with Miller. That's a cracking draft!

Rohirrim
09-25-2011, 03:11 PM
Exactly, so why start a journeyman who'll be out of here after this season when you have a first round QB on the bench?

Well, we know Josh McDaniels thought he was a first round QB, anyway. ;D

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:12 PM
Fair enough. Although I think there's reason for at least optimism with Franklin, Moore, and the TE. We need Moore to be good badly. Need a good young safety.

I've just seen clueless rookies so far. I'm optimistic as well, but not based off their play on the field. Rookies often suck. But they are incredibly talented players with tons of potential, so I certainly have hope for them. At the same time I'm not going to praise the whole draft at this point when only one player has really looked good so far.

mkporter
09-25-2011, 03:14 PM
When our mediocre offense has become a bottom feeder at the same time, yeah it doesn't count for much.

Got it. Negative things count. Positive things don't.

24champ
09-25-2011, 03:14 PM
Countdown to Pat selling the team...

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:15 PM
Well, we know Josh McDaniels thought he was a first round QB, anyway. ;D

We spent the resources on him either way. If it was a bad pick, let's find out on the field. Not via bogus practice reports and bull**** PR spin.

DarkHorse
09-25-2011, 03:16 PM
He'll always be our beloved HOF QB GOAT but......


As of now he's just another dumbass GM, he just so happens to be the GM of our beloved Broncos.


Burn them all at the stake. As far as i'm concerned he's fair game.

Bob's your Information Minister
09-25-2011, 03:16 PM
You guys are a bad football team. Losing a road game by a narrow margin is no reason to call out a new regime in it's first year.

Get some perspective.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:16 PM
I've just seen clueless rookies so far. I'm optimistic as well, but not based off their play on the field. Rookies often suck. But they are incredibly talented players with tons of potential, so I certainly have hope for them. At the same time I'm not going to praise the whole draft at this point when only one player has really looked good so far.

I think we can agree there. At the very least, I'm happy that we found players who are better than the players we had. And believe me, I understand that's not saying a lot, because we were awful last year. But it's progress, at least IMO. We found some starters in the draft. For right now, I'm happy with that.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:16 PM
Got it. Negative things count. Positive things don't.

No they just cancel each other out. Our terrible defense has become mediocre, and our mediocre offense has become terrible. The end result on the field is more or less the same: we lose.

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:17 PM
You guys are a bad football team. Losing a road game by a narrow margin is no reason to call out a new regime in it's first year.

Get some perspective.

You are on a Denver Broncos website WHILE your team plays a division rival. Get a noose and find a tree.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:17 PM
He'll always be our beloved HOF QB GOAT but......


As of now he's just another dumbass GM, he just so happens to be the GM of our beloved Broncos.


Burn them all at the stake. As far as i'm concerned he's fair game.

So do we just fire them all and start over again next year?

This was never going to be a 1-year process. We were always going to be bad this year. It's going to take time.

Rohirrim
09-25-2011, 03:18 PM
We spent the resources on him either way. If it was a bad pick, let's find out on the field. Not via bogus practice reports and bull**** PR spin.

It seems to me I remember him getting a lot of playing time in the preseason. He didn't look too good. Maybe they're just trying to save his trade value? I get the sneaking suspicion that Elway is not on board with Tebow as a long term solution, and Fox agrees with him, if I had to make a guess.

24champ
09-25-2011, 03:19 PM
You guys are a bad football team. Losing a road game by a narrow margin is no reason to call out a new regime in it's first year.

Get some perspective.

New regime? We only added Elway to the FO.

Fox is 3-16 since last year. Great hire. ::)

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:21 PM
So do we just fire them all and start over again next year?

This was never going to be a 1-year process. We were always going to be bad this year. It's going to take time.

Every Broncos fan accepts this! We were not expecting playoffs, but we weren't expecting the team to WASTE a year on the QB position!!!!

Play Quinn - maybe he is good.

Play Tebow - no one knows what he has as a QB!

If one pans out, we can use our high 1st round pick in next year's draft on a position of NEED not take a 1st round QB for the 3rd time in 7 years.

DarkHorse
09-25-2011, 03:23 PM
So do we just fire them all and start over again next year?

This was never going to be a 1-year process. We were always going to be bad this year. It's going to take time.

Umm no, not at all. Wasn't meant to be too serious, don't take it literally either. I don't want someone to actually abduct them and tie them to a stake and set it on fire.

Maybe they don't deserve any criticism at all - they seem to be doing just fine (blowing 2 games that they should have won) the way things are going. All we did was lost to 2 teams that a lot of us were counting as 2 of the 4-6 wins that we expected this year.

mkporter
09-25-2011, 03:25 PM
New regime? We only added Elway to the FO.

Fox is 3-16 since last year. Great hire. ::)

Let's not be an a$$ and pretend last year was the only year Fox coached. The guy is a .500 lifetime coach even after last year's owner-induced ****-show they put on the field. He may not be world beater, but using last year's record as your argument against Fox is childish at best. No one likes losing, but we look to be a much more competitive team this year. We'll know what kind of team we have after the next few games, but we don't know right now.

colonelbeef
09-25-2011, 03:27 PM
McDaniels left behind total garbage. This year was a loss before Elway took charge.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:29 PM
Every Broncos fan accepts this! We were not expecting playoffs, but we weren't expecting the team to WASTE a year on the QB position!!!!

Play Quinn - maybe he is good.

Play Tebow - no one knows what he has as a QB!

If one pans out, we can use our high 1st round pick in next year's draft on a position of NEED not take a 1st round QB for the 3rd time in 7 years.

Oh, ok. Then yes I completely agree with you. I took your "burn them at the stake" comment as one that implied getting rid of them, etc.

But I agree we need to get either Quinn or Tebow playing time.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:31 PM
It seems to me I remember him getting a lot of playing time in the preseason. He didn't look too good. Maybe they're just trying to save his trade value? I get the sneaking suspicion that Elway is not on board with Tebow as a long term solution, and Fox agrees with him, if I had to make a guess.

Err...he had a 109 QB rating. If you honestly think he looked bad in the preseason you are completely delusional. Period.

DarkHorse
09-25-2011, 03:32 PM
Oh, ok. Then yes I completely agree with you. I took your "burn them at the stake" comment as one that implied getting rid of them, etc.

But I agree we need to get either Quinn or Tebow playing time.

Yeah, no, lol. I'm "ok" with our coaching staff other than their decision making at this point. I thought the draft was a really good one compared to our previous recent picks.

I'm all go on the staff/FO - except for their stubborn headed Kyle Orton is our QB decisions.

Ridiculous how awful this team looks with him on the field.

TheReverend
09-25-2011, 03:33 PM
Let's not be an a$$ and pretend last year was the only year Fox coached. The guy is a .500 lifetime coach even after last year's owner-induced ****-show they put on the field. He may not be world beater, but using last year's record as your argument against Fox is childish at best. No one likes losing, but we look to be a much more competitive team this year. We'll know what kind of team we have after the next few games, but we don't know right now.

Well... awesome. ::)

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:34 PM
Err...he had a 109 QB rating. If you honestly think he looked bad in the preseason you are completely delusional. Period.

Well hold on here.

I think there's a disconnect between watching Tebow play versus his stat sheet. I'm a pro-Tebow guy, but during the pre-season, when I watched him play, it looked ugly.

Now when I went back and looked at his stats, he actually did fine. But from a pure eye test, I understand that he looked bad. Even I thought so.

24champ
09-25-2011, 03:34 PM
Let's not be an a$$ and pretend last year was the only year Fox coached. The guy is a .500 lifetime coach even after last year's owner-induced ****-show they put on the field. He may not be world beater, but using last year's record as your argument against Fox is childish at best. No one likes losing, but we look to be a much more competitive team this year. We'll know what kind of team we have after the next few games, but we don't know right now.

I'm just stating the facts, he has won a grand total of 3 games since last year. The playcalling and decisions from him today shows why he's only won three games.

DrFate
09-25-2011, 03:37 PM
I'm a pro-Tebow guy, but during the pre-season, when I watched him play, it looked ugly.

He also didn't get a preseason snap behind the first team OLine. Washington had a QB competition. Denver didn't.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:37 PM
Well hold on here.

I think there's a disconnect between watching Tebow play versus his stat sheet. I'm a pro-Tebow guy, but during the pre-season, when I watched him play, it looked ugly.

Now when I went back and looked at his stats, he actually did fine. But from a pure eye test, I understand that he looked bad. Even I thought so.

No the disconnect is the people who look at how he plays instead of the results. It looked ugly, but he produced overall. He certainly wasn't bad in the preseason. And when they finally let him play out of the shotgun he looked scary good to be honest. I watched every game. His play and his stat sheet looked the same to me. Even when the guy is clearly struggling with becoming the traditional pocket passer this team insists on him becoming, he produces.

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:38 PM
He also didn't get a preseason snap behind the first team OLine. Washington had a QB competition. Denver didn't.

Also true. It would have been nice to see him play with our true weapons.

DrFate
09-25-2011, 03:39 PM
Also true. It would have been nice to see him play with our true weapons.

That's why I get so annoyed when people claim Orton won a competition. I know what a competition looks like. The Redskins had one. No one knows what Tebow might have done with reps with the first team and some pre-season series with the 'ones'

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:39 PM
No the disconnect is the people who look at how he plays instead of the results. It looked ugly, but he produced overall. He certainly wasn't bad in the preseason. And when they finally let him play out of the shotgun he looked scary good to be honest. I watched every game. His play and his stat sheet looked the same to me. Even when the guy is clearly struggling with becoming the traditional pocket passer this team insists on him becoming, he produces.

I guess. I didn't see it quite the same, in fact I think we had a thread about this. I didn't see him "look scary" at any point, but I was very pleasantly surprised when I saw his final stats. Clearly, it would have been nice to get him some reps with the first team line and WRs.

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:39 PM
Also true. It would have been nice to see him play with our true weapons.

Agreed. Absolutely agree. He was protected by guys who are insurance agents now.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:40 PM
He also didn't get a preseason snap behind the first team OLine. Washington had a QB competition. Denver didn't.

The guy was running for his life all preseason, but for some reason that's held against him and people say his play looked "ugly". When you are running from pass rushers an instant after snapping the ball on nearly every play producing like he did is not "ugly".

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:40 PM
Agreed. Absolutely agree. He was protected by guys who are insurance agents now.

At least they're not jockeying a cell phone kiosk!

broncofan4life
09-25-2011, 03:44 PM
the real problem is are O-line Beadles and Walton are horrible they get blown off the line almost every play. We need to fix the interior of our line.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:44 PM
I guess. I didn't see it quite the same, in fact I think we had a thread about this. I didn't see him "look scary" at any point, but I was very pleasantly surprised when I saw his final stats. Clearly, it would have been nice to get him some reps with the first team line and WRs.

How were you surprised? Did you miss that he was the only QB we had that could legitimately stretch the field or extend a broken play? Were you simply looking at his dropback mechanics or something? I just don't get it.

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:45 PM
the real problem is are O-line Beadles and Walton are horrible they get blown off the line almost every play. We need to fix the interior of our line.

I think Walton looked good today.

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 03:50 PM
It doesn't matter, Elway's ego and stubbornness will mean that the change won't happen until after the bye, if it happens at all this year.

Archer81
09-25-2011, 03:56 PM
Rebuilding...with a 7 year vet on a one year deal.

Why not.


:Broncos:

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 03:56 PM
Rebuilding...with a 7 year vet on a one year deal.

Why not.


:Broncos:

Winning.

maher_tyler
09-25-2011, 03:56 PM
It doesn't matter, Elway's ego and stubbornness will mean that the change won't happen until after the bye, if it happens at all this year.

If we're still starting Orton in week 10 with a 2-7 record, i doubt i'll make it a priority to watch the games!

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 03:58 PM
How were you surprised? Did you miss that he was the only QB we had that could legitimately stretch the field or extend a broken play? Were you simply looking at his dropback mechanics or something? I just don't get it.

I don't know, I just remember it all looking ugly. To be fair, one game I was in the stands and hammered drunk.

I agree that part of it was him running for his life. The whole offense just looked a mess. But part of that is playing with second teamers. I was impressed when I saw the stat sheet on Tim later.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 04:00 PM
I don't know, I just remember it all looking ugly. To be fair, one game I was in the stands and hammered drunk.

I agree that part of it was him running for his life. The whole offense just looked a mess. But part of that is playing with second teamers. I was impressed when I saw the stat sheet on Tim later.

It would've looked A LOT uglier with Orton behind that line. You know that right?

RhymesayersDU
09-25-2011, 04:10 PM
It would've looked A LOT uglier with Orton behind that line. You know that right?

Dude, we've been on the same side of this Tebow issue for weeks. I'm on your side here. Orton would have curled up in the fetal position. All I was saying is it didn't look pretty at the time.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 04:13 PM
Dude, we've been on the same side of this Tebow issue for weeks. I'm on your side here. Orton would have curled up in the fetal position. All I was saying is it didn't look pretty at the time.

Fair enough. I just think it's odd when people talk about how ugly he looked in preseason when he was running for his life every play and still produced great stats.

blake65
09-25-2011, 04:32 PM
All the more reason to not start the lameduck vet that isn't under contract beyond this season. Unless they are just trying to save some money...

Only logical answer!

Hulamau
09-25-2011, 04:45 PM
You guys are a 'Rebuilding' football team. Losing a road game by a narrow margin is no reason to call out a new regime in it's first year.

Get some perspective.

You know this place is in trouble when Boob adds the voice of reason! :pimp:

elsid13
09-25-2011, 05:10 PM
Agreed. Absolutely agree. He was protected by guys who are insurance agents now.

And was playing against guys that are competing for those insurance salemen jobs.

The defense line/front seven has been extremely solid and it is impressive when you realize that it's best player (Doom) has limited playing time, and its most complete linebacker (DJ) has been out.

Agamemnon
09-25-2011, 05:11 PM
And was playing against guys that are competing for those insurance salemen jobs.

The defense line/front seven has been extremely solid and it is impressive when you realize that it's best player (Doom) has limited playing time, and its most complete linebacker (DJ) has been out.

When it came to line play their insurance agents were a lot better than ours...

Drek
09-25-2011, 05:23 PM
the real problem is are O-line Beadles and Walton are horrible they get blown off the line almost every play. We need to fix the interior of our line.

The OL did its job today. We came up against a tough football team with some key players missing. Most of our roster rose to that challenge and played higher quality football than we've seen in a while. The Broncos committed one penalty today. The defense created two turnovers. Yet somehow all we managed offensively was 14 points.

14 points. 2 turnovers given, solid OL play with no holding or false start penalties, 14 points.

We've got some real problems behind the OL folks. Simple as that.

troya900
09-25-2011, 05:33 PM
When it came to line play their insurance agents were a lot better than ours...

Exactly, these morons that claim "but, but he was also playing against 2nd/3rd stringers" are ridiculous. Did any of those morons even watch Tebow in the preseason? He was running around for his life right after the snap on a huge majority of his plays and still produced a QB rating around 108, but yet idiots still clamor about him playing against other 2nd stringers. It's just mind boggling how these idiots insist on AbOrton even after watching week after week after week of the same ole **** for 2+ years now (which produces loss after loss).

Momentum
09-25-2011, 05:38 PM
The problem is that McDaniels' draft picks Beadles, Walton, Tebow, Knowshon, and Demariyus have contributed nothing and probably wont even be on this team in a year or so.

maven
09-25-2011, 05:44 PM
John, you were a bold, exciting QB, a leader of this team, stop backing a guy who is the polar opposite of you. Make the call, make the change at the only position on the field that could change anything at this point. Soon it will be too late and this year will be lost.

Make the call John, whichever John has to make the call. Please. Being a Broncos fan at this point is just deflating.

Didn't Deberg get a few starts before John was inserted? It's very possible Denver heads into the bye 1-4. While that is not out of "playoff" contention, it's damn near close.

DenverBrit
09-25-2011, 05:45 PM
Had the O line been able to push for a 1 yard gain.......just once, or if they could cover a TE with the game on the line.....Denver wins and a lot of these threads wouldn't exist.

Did anyone here really think this team was going anywhere without signing a lot more talent?
There's only so much a new regime can do by game three, in the first year of a re-build that is marred by a short TC and a half dozen starters injured.

I like the heart this team is showing, but it needs more playmakers, and those will take time to find. They are a work in progress, so throwing the coaches and FO under the bus each week is getting old.

Rulon Velvet Jones
09-25-2011, 05:47 PM
Isn't it a little soon for this? They're only 3 games into a season with this team- one that didn't have organized offseason workouts and is clearly rebuilding. I don't get upset with losses this year. I'm hoping for wins, but looking to see which guys are players and which guys need to be tossed to the curb. They will be the foundation for years to come. As of now, even that list is still hazy with such a small sample size. They office may be thinking Orton represents competent, traditional QB play (minus throwing balls in the dirt) that can be best used to evaluate what's on the field. If they went with Tebow now, the entire shape of the game changes and we might not see the same results from some guys. This is obviously on the offensive side of the ball. Should we also be clamoring for Dawkins to have a seat because he's clearly not in the team's plans beyond this season?

(Not an Orton supporter. Very tired of his act. Just spitballing what I think may be the case.)

DenverBrit
09-25-2011, 05:48 PM
Isn't it a little soon for this? They're only 3 games into a season with this team- one that didn't have organized offseason workouts and is clearly rebuilding. I don't get upset with losses this year. I'm hoping for wins, but looking to see which guys are players and which guys need to be tossed to the curb. They will be the foundation for years to come. As of now, even that list is still hazy with such a small sample size. They office may be thinking Orton represents competent, traditional QB play (minus throwing balls in the dirt) that can be best used to evaluate what's on the field. If they went with Tebow now, the entire shape of the game changes and we might not see the same results from some guys. This is obviously on the offensive side of the ball. Should we also be clamoring for Dawkins to have a seat because he's clearly not in the team's plans beyond this season?

(Not an Orton supporter. Very tired of his act. Just spitballing what I think may be the case.)

Exactly. :thumbsup:

mkporter
09-25-2011, 05:54 PM
It doesn't matter, Elway's ego and stubbornness will mean that the change won't happen until after the bye, if it happens at all this year.

I'd be okay with a change after the bye. Only two more games until we get there. Not holding my breath though.

troya900
09-25-2011, 05:54 PM
Should we also be clamoring for Dawkins to have a seat because he's clearly not in the team's plans beyond this season?

If he has blown assignments week after week after week and a young 1st round draft pick is sitting right behind him and has definitely shown flashes of good play.... then WHY NOT??

orangenblue
09-25-2011, 06:01 PM
Yep. But you're going to get the hate for saying it. Most Broncos fans can't separate their love for Elway as a player with him as a football exec.

You can blame Elway all you want, but WHO in THE HELL was he supposed to hire for a head coach? There is friggen nobody out there! The REAL IDIOT is Pat Bowlen. He fired a HALL OF FAME coach, whose offense was on the cusp of becoming the BEST offense in the NFL. Coaches lose in this league. Yes, Shanahan lost alot of games and was on a run of not making the playoffs, but look at guys like Fisher, Andy Reid, Norv Turner, etc. None of them have any Titles and they aren't getting fired.

Face it. Bowlen buried this organization 10 years deep by firing Shanahan. Broncos won't be relevent for a long time. And John Fox might never be relevent.

mhgaffney
09-25-2011, 06:03 PM
I'm expecting flack for this, but at this point, I don't care, I had more hope for the season this time last year than I do today.

If you make yourself the face of the team expect criticism when the teams sucks.

You deserve flak.

Cpntrips
09-25-2011, 07:47 PM
This team wasn't winning more than 4-5 games no matter what

That is precisely why you start Tebow instead of Orton. Thank you for spelling it out. Hey, I thought you were against Tebow starting?

vonqkilla
09-25-2011, 07:54 PM
Watching Orton choke is brutal torture while a real gamer rides pine.

It 's torture.

It sucks.

Its a joke.

And the beatings will continue until moral improves.

Steve Sewell
09-25-2011, 09:42 PM
On a positive for John, I think we can all agree the draft was good.

This.

Vegas_Bronco
09-25-2011, 10:34 PM
I like this team, I like Elway, I like people that act on emotion.....simply put, we've had a chance to win each of our first 3 games and didn't get it done. Now the real season begins and we can digest how good this team really is/isn't as we go against some elite teams. I enjoy the game but also know when to admit my team has lost without pointing the finger at everyone in the .org.

Dedhed
09-25-2011, 10:44 PM
Season was lost before we took a snap, even if Tebow were to start from day 1. We were never going to do anything meaningful this year. We're rebuilding.

That's just it; the season wouldn't be a loss if we started Tebow. Sink or swim would have gained something.

If he's anywhere the stud he was in college, we're 3-0 right now.

If he's a dud, we can draft a top QB next year.

Either way we've gained the knowledge needed to figure out the most efficient route to make this team relevant again. Starting Orton is the sole reason this season is a complete loss.

Anyone with a brain and a little perspective understood we were never going to be a contender with Orton, and therefore recognizes that starting Orton even once only serves to disrupt the development of this team back towards being an actual playoff caliber team.

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 10:48 PM
You deserve flak.

The fact that the only "flak" is from the 'Mane psycho makes me more confident in my opinion.

Dedhed
09-25-2011, 10:52 PM
You can blame Elway all you want, but WHO in THE HELL was he supposed to hire for a head coach? There is friggen nobody out there! The REAL IDIOT is Pat Bowlen. He fired a HALL OF FAME coach, whose offense was on the cusp of becoming the BEST offense in the NFL. Coaches lose in this league. Yes, Shanahan lost alot of games and was on a run of not making the playoffs, but look at guys like Fisher, Andy Reid, Norv Turner, etc. None of them have any Titles and they aren't getting fired.

Face it. Bowlen buried this organization 10 years deep by firing Shanahan. Broncos won't be relevent for a long time. And John Fox might never be relevent.Remeber that time we were the first team to blow a 3 game division lead with 3 games left in the season?

Remember the time we won only a single playoff game in a decade and then played .500 football for the next 4 years and never made the playoffs?

Get over it. Shanny was a great coach with Elway, and yes what's come since he left has sucked, but Shanahan as the coach of the Broncos was a tired old 8-8 act.

DarkHorse30
09-25-2011, 11:17 PM
That's just it; the season wouldn't be a loss if we started Tebow. Sink or swim would have gained something.

If he's anywhere the stud he was in college, we're 3-0 right now.

If he's a dud, we can draft a top QB next year.

Either way we've gained the knowledge needed to figure out the most efficient route to make this team relevant again. Starting Orton is the sole reason this season is a complete loss.

Anyone with a brain and a little perspective understood we were never going to be a contender with Orton, and therefore recognizes that starting Orton even once only serves to disrupt the development of this team back towards being an actual playoff caliber team.

This. EVERY Denver fan knew that this season was a rebuild. So, given that the interim coach started Tebow for three games to find out what he's got, and now our new coach is "afraid" to start him in place of an average journeyman QB that Denver only acquired by a trade that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Dagmar
09-25-2011, 11:40 PM
This. EVERY Denver fan knew that this season was a rebuild. So, given that the interim coach started Tebow for three games to find out what he's got, and now our new coach is "afraid" to start him in place of an average journeyman QB that Denver only acquired by a trade that they didn't want to happen in the first place?

Starting a rookie is ALWAYS a disaster. Just like Cam Newton.

Cpntrips
09-25-2011, 11:40 PM
That's just it; the season wouldn't be a loss if we started Tebow. Sink or swim would have gained something.

If he's anywhere the stud he was in college, we're 3-0 right now.

If he's a dud, we can draft a top QB next year.

Either way we've gained the knowledge needed to figure out the most efficient route to make this team relevant again. Starting Orton is the sole reason this season is a complete loss.

Anyone with a brain and a little perspective understood we were never going to be a contender with Orton, and therefore recognizes that starting Orton even once only serves to disrupt the development of this team back towards being an actual playoff caliber team.

Amen

MagicHef
09-25-2011, 11:42 PM
Isn't it a little soon for this? They're only 3 games into a season with this team- one that didn't have organized offseason workouts and is clearly rebuilding. I don't get upset with losses this year. I'm hoping for wins, but looking to see which guys are players and which guys need to be tossed to the curb. They will be the foundation for years to come. As of now, even that list is still hazy with such a small sample size. They office may be thinking Orton represents competent, traditional QB play (minus throwing balls in the dirt) that can be best used to evaluate what's on the field. If they went with Tebow now, the entire shape of the game changes and we might not see the same results from some guys. This is obviously on the offensive side of the ball. Should we also be clamoring for Dawkins to have a seat because he's clearly not in the team's plans beyond this season?

(Not an Orton supporter. Very tired of his act. Just spitballing what I think may be the case.)

That is a great point, and one that I hadn't thought of. Unfortunately, it means that the club has no place for Tebow in their future plans. Why would you be so desperate to see how everyone plays with a traditional QB if there was a chance that you might play a non-traditional QB in the near future?

mkporter
09-26-2011, 12:01 AM
You can blame Elway all you want, but WHO in THE HELL was he supposed to hire for a head coach? There is friggen nobody out there! The REAL IDIOT is Pat Bowlen. He fired a HALL OF FAME coach, whose offense was on the cusp of becoming the BEST offense in the NFL. Coaches lose in this league. Yes, Shanahan lost alot of games and was on a run of not making the playoffs, but look at guys like Fisher, Andy Reid, Norv Turner, etc. None of them have any Titles and they aren't getting fired.

Face it. Bowlen buried this organization 10 years deep by firing Shanahan. Broncos won't be relevent for a long time. And John Fox might never be relevent.

Fisher was fired.

Every time you start thinking that Shanahan had the team on the cusp of greatness, just remember one word: Slowik.