PDA

View Full Version : Michael Silver: Haley out McD in?


Goobzilla
09-19-2011, 10:23 AM
Michael Silvers Monday column on Yahoo talks about Pioli and Haley's toxic relationship and that Pioli will dump Haley to save himself.

"I believe that if Pioli fires Haley, he’ll try to hire his old New England colleague Josh McDaniels, he of the disastrous tenure as Broncos head coach that included dubious personnel moves too numerous to mention, a cheating scandal and five victories in his final 22 games. When McDaniels, currently the Rams’ offensive coordinator, becomes K.C.’s next head coach, count on two things: I’ll remind you that you heard it here first and you’re going to be treated to a real diatribe.

Ray Finkle
09-19-2011, 10:27 AM
well he will finally get back to Cassel....woo hoo

Chris
09-19-2011, 10:27 AM
Bring it.

Cleo McDowell
09-19-2011, 10:27 AM
http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/6/6a/Mr_Burns_evil.gif

theAPAOps5
09-19-2011, 10:29 AM
Well KC will be out of the Luck running then. :)

Requiem
09-19-2011, 10:30 AM
http://ia.ita.doc.gov/download/rfm-scope/magnet-images/target-20081222/053-19-2077%20NoWay-TGT%202007-004711-035.jpg

Br0nc0Buster
09-19-2011, 10:30 AM
good
he can trade Jamaal Charles and Tamba Hali for Lawrence Marony and Denard Robinson

Dedhed
09-19-2011, 10:30 AM
Michael Silvers Monday column on Yahoo talks about Pioli and Haley's toxic relationship and that Pioli will dump Haley to save himself.

"I believe that if Pioli fires Haley, heíll try to hire his old New England colleague Josh McDaniels, he of the disastrous tenure as Broncos head coach that included dubious personnel moves too numerous to mention, a cheating scandal and five victories in his final 22 games. When McDaniels, currently the Ramsí offensive coordinator, becomes K.C.ís next head coach, count on two things: Iíll remind you that you heard it here first and youíre going to be treated to a real diatribe.

I wouldn't want to see McDaniels in the AFC West. With a real GM, and no control over the player personnel, he could be a good coach. And I wouldn't want a guy who's that motivated to seek revenge. Think Shanahan against the Raiders.

EmpireOrange
09-19-2011, 10:31 AM
Actually, McD with Luck and a compentent GM sounds pretty scary to me. I'm no McD supporter but Bowlen screwed all involved by giving him complete shanny-like control. The league hasn't heard the last of McD, and him in KC w/ Luck, and an axe to grind with Denver could spell poopy pants for lovers of Broncos. Let's hope not...

zdoor
09-19-2011, 10:31 AM
That would be hysterical...

Rolandftw
09-19-2011, 10:32 AM
Chiefs need to fire both of them. Most of the players that turned around their team last season were brought in by the previous administration (big exception to Berry, who Todd Haley had to fight to get supposedly).

Wish I could say I'd be happy if McDaniels got another head coaching gig. Wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even the Chiefs.

The Patriot Way is retarded. Looks like KC is the last organization to admit this.

bronco militia
09-19-2011, 10:38 AM
this thread will grow like a texas wildfire....grab some marshmellows!

http://ih1.redbubble.net/work.2085488.6.flat,550x550,075,f.campfire-marshmallows.jpg

TheDave
09-19-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm having a real hard time believing that huricane josh is already in line for a new coaching gig.

bronco militia
09-19-2011, 10:41 AM
I'm having a real hard time believing that huricane josh is already in line for a new coaching gig.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Ha!

orange crusher
09-19-2011, 10:41 AM
Since we fired him, I've assumed that he'd eventually end up in KC.

DBroncos4life
09-19-2011, 10:43 AM
I'm having a real hard time believing that huricane josh is already in line for a new coaching gig.

I wonder if popps already has a account on the planet. On the plus side he already knows quite a few posters so he should feel welcome there.

Hercules Rockefeller
09-19-2011, 10:43 AM
I'm having a real hard time believing that huricane josh is already in line for a new coaching gig.

Agree. I'm sure he'll get another shot again at some point if he does well in StL, but no team is going to give him another shot so fast after seeing what he did to Denver, even if he has no personnel control.

TonyR
09-19-2011, 10:45 AM
The Patriot Way is retarded.

You might want to think this one through a little more.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
09-19-2011, 10:49 AM
http://www.stlouisrams.com/team/statistics.html

<TABLE class=team-vs><CAPTION>Team Statistics</CAPTION><THEAD><TR><TH class=stat-name> </TH><TH class=team-stat>St. Louis Rams</TH><TH class=opponent-stat>Opponents</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=" loop-first loop-odd "><TD class=stat-name>TOTAL FIRST DOWNS</TD><TD class=team-stat>21</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>27</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-even "><TD class=stat-name>FIRST DOWNS (RUSHING-PASSING-BY-PENALTY)</TD><TD class=team-stat>6-11-4</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>12-11-4</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-odd "><TD class=stat-name>THIRD DOWN CONVERSIONS</TD><TD class=team-stat>2/12</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>8/13</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-even "><TD class=stat-name>FOURTH DOWN CONVERSIONS</TD><TD class=team-stat>2/3</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>0/1</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-odd "><TD class=stat-name>TOTAL OFFENSIVE YARDS</TD><TD class=team-stat>335</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>403</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-even "><TD class=stat-name>OFFENSE (PLAYS-AVERAGE YARDS)</TD><TD class=team-stat>66-5.1</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>67-6</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-odd "><TD class=stat-name>TOTAL RUSHING YARDS</TD><TD class=team-stat>154</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>236</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-even "><TD class=stat-name>RUSHING (PLAYS-AVERAGE YARDS)</TD><TD class=team-stat>26-5.9</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>32-7.4</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-odd "><TD class=stat-name>TOTAL PASSING YARDS</TD><TD class=team-stat>181</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>167</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-even "><TD class=stat-name>PASSING (COMP-ATT-INT-AVG)</TD><TD class=team-stat>18-35-0-6</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>14-32-0-5.8</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-odd "><TD class=stat-name>SACKS</TD><TD class=team-stat>3.0</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>5.0</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-even "><TD class=stat-name>FIELD GOALS</TD><TD class=team-stat>2/3</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>1/1</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-odd "><TD class=stat-name>TOUCHDOWNS</TD><TD class=team-stat>1</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>4</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-even "><TD class=stat-name>TOUCHDOWNS (RUSHING-PASSING-RETURNS-DEFENSIVE)</TD><TD class=team-stat>1-0-0-0</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>1-2-0-1</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-odd "><TD class=stat-name>TIME OF POSSESSION</TD><TD class=team-stat>29:46</TD><TD class=opponent-stat>30:14</TD></TR><TR class=" loop-even loop-last "><TD class=stat-name>TURNOVER RATIO</TD><TD class=team-stat colSpan=2>+0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Wow, that scary?

DrFate
09-19-2011, 10:51 AM
I'm having a real hard time believing that huricane josh is already in line for a new coaching gig.

this ^

Rolandftw
09-19-2011, 10:53 AM
You might want to think this one through a little more.

The Patriot Way, minus one of the greatest QB's of all time is retarded. Better?

It's not the system, it's the players.

TonyR
09-19-2011, 10:56 AM
The Patriot Way, minus one of the greatest QB's of all time is retarded. Better?


Yes, much. Although I think you need to give Belichick a little credit, too.

Endy
09-19-2011, 10:58 AM
I think we should call it the "Belichick Way" because every other Patriot he's crapped out on the world has been exactly that. Crap.

Endy
09-19-2011, 11:01 AM
And what would be McDaniels' motivation for revenge?

He came here. Got EXACTLY everything he wanted. Took a huge dump on this franchise. And was rightly fired for it.

End of story.

Comparing Al Davis' mistreatment of Shanny to Bowlen's tolerance of McDaniels' immaturity and myopia is a bit out of whack IMO.

DrFate
09-19-2011, 11:02 AM
He came here. Got EXACTLY everything he wanted. Took a huge dump on this franchise. And was rightly fired for it.


I doubt McDaniels sees it that way

WolfpackGuy
09-19-2011, 11:03 AM
Good for the Broncos if they hire McClueless.

teknic
09-19-2011, 11:05 AM
Michael Silvers Monday column on Yahoo talks about Pioli and Haley's toxic relationship and that Pioli will dump Haley to save himself.

"I believe that if Pioli fires Haley, heíll try to hire his old New England colleague Josh McDaniels, he of the disastrous tenure as Broncos head coach that included dubious personnel moves too numerous to mention, a cheating scandal and five victories in his final 22 games. When McDaniels, currently the Ramsí offensive coordinator, becomes K.C.ís next head coach, count on two things: Iíll remind you that you heard it here first and youíre going to be treated to a real diatribe.

Who does he think he is, Pat Bowlen hiring Shannahan after the Raider dumped him?

That being said, I do have a feeling that McDaniels can be an effective coach in this league. The Chiefs are a very young team built with players drafted by Pioli, so McDaniels seems ideal.

yerner
09-19-2011, 11:05 AM
Good. Players don't play for Mcdaniels after about 6 weeks of listening to that dork talk about toughness. Dude's a creampuff.

Rolandftw
09-19-2011, 11:06 AM
The thought process is like this:

I think the Broncos should try the Packers way, but it doesn't matter who is the QB, or how bad I draft, or how we approach the preseason because I came from the Packers system or how well I get along with my coaches and we can create that because I'm the smartest man on the planet and I can win anywhere with anyone.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 11:09 AM
Who does he think he is, Pat Bowlen hiring Shannahan after the Raider dumped him?

That being said, I do have a feeling that McDaniels can be an effective coach in this league. The Chiefs are a very young team built with players drafted by Pioli, so McDaniels seems ideal.

Just out of curiosity what has that idiot ever done in his life to be considered a "perfect fit" for a head coaching gig?

teknic
09-19-2011, 11:15 AM
Just out of curiosity what has that idiot ever done in his life to be considered a "perfect fit" for a head coaching gig?

Despite the redzone difficulties, he ran a pretty efficient offense. He called aggressively, leading to some big plays. I believe he just didn't have the correct personnel in Denver, exhibited by the high player turnover. I don't agree with most of the personnel decisions he (and Xanders?) made where he valued a system-fit over talent, but KC already has a young team with Patriots style players.

I'm not defending the guy, he was the worst thing that has happened to this team in a long time. I truly wish Shannahan was still coaching the Broncos.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 11:17 AM
Despite the redzone difficulties, he ran a pretty efficient offense. He called aggressively, leading to some big plays. I believe he just didn't have the correct personnel in Denver, exhibited by the high player turnover. I don't agree with most of the personnel decisions he (and Xanders?) made where he valued a system-fit over talent, but KC already has a young team with Patriots style players.

I'm not defending the guy, he was the worst thing that has happened to this team in a long time. I truly wish Shannahan was still coaching the Broncos.

Fair enough... mention of his name just makes my blood boil.

Kaylore
09-19-2011, 11:21 AM
I don't think this will happen. I do think Haley will get canned, though.

And I agree with what was said earlier about how McD got everything he wanted. The Broncos basically gave him keys to the house. The brunt of the bad decisions are his to own. Not that some others aren't complicit, but that's the one good thing about how we handled things; We let him do it his way and he failed so we know it wasn't because he wasn't given a fair shake.

A lot of building a good football team is knowing how to identify and bring in personnel to help you succeed. Josh McDaniels is absolutely terrible at that.

montrose
09-19-2011, 11:23 AM
This scares the **** out of me.

WolfpackGuy
09-19-2011, 11:29 AM
You fit the system to the players, not the other way around.

I doubt McClueless will ever learn that, so I'm all for the Cheaps bringing him on.

gyldenlove
09-19-2011, 11:31 AM
I don't think this will happen. I do think Haley will get canned, though.

And I agree with what was said earlier about how McD got everything he wanted. The Broncos basically gave him keys to the house. The brunt of the bad decisions are his to own. Not that some others aren't complicit, but that's the one good thing about how we handled things; We let him do it his way and he failed so we know it wasn't because he wasn't given a fair shake.

A lot of building a good football team is knowing how to identify and bring in personnel to help you succeed. Josh McDaniels is absolutely terrible at that.

We know KC stuck with king Carl for about 10 years too long, I doubt they will make that same mistake again. I wouldn't be surprised to see them clean house and bring in an all powerful presence either at VP, GM or HC who has power over all hires, scouting, football and roster decisions.

Having 2 cooks in the house is not the right way to do things, and I doubt they will absolve Pioli or Haley by firing the other and handing over the keys to the remaining guy - I am guessing, but I don't see it happening.

gyldenlove
09-19-2011, 11:33 AM
Despite the redzone difficulties, he ran a pretty efficient offense. He called aggressively, leading to some big plays. I believe he just didn't have the correct personnel in Denver, exhibited by the high player turnover. I don't agree with most of the personnel decisions he (and Xanders?) made where he valued a system-fit over talent, but KC already has a young team with Patriots style players.

I'm not defending the guy, he was the worst thing that has happened to this team in a long time. I truly wish Shannahan was still coaching the Broncos.

Mcdaniels shortcomings were many, refusal to compromise, micromanaging, poor roster decisions, and insecurity.

He is a good OC if someone else there to keep him on a leash, but he is no good if he is in power and I don't think he would be an effective head coach if he had to work under the supervision and decisions of a GM or VP - much like Haley is proving not to be.

bowtown
09-19-2011, 11:35 AM
This scares the **** out of me.

Me too.

Gutless Drunk
09-19-2011, 11:44 AM
Despite the redzone difficulties, he ran a pretty efficient offense. He called aggressively, leading to some big plays. I believe he just didn't have the correct personnel in Denver, exhibited by the high player turnover. I don't agree with most of the personnel decisions he (and Xanders?) made where he valued a system-fit over talent, but KC already has a young team with Patriots style players.

I'm not defending the guy, he was the worst thing that has happened to this team in a long time. I truly wish Shannahan was still coaching the Broncos.

Efficient in what?...mediocrity?

2010 - 13th in yards 19th in scoring
2009 - 15th in yards 20th in scoring

The myth of his scintillating Denver offenses will never die. McDaniel's offenses in Denver were average to below average. "You are what your numbers say you are"
Save your boot quaking until the guy does something impressive sans Brady or Belichick

Maybe you meant?:
"Despite the redzone difficulties, he ran a pretty efficient passing game"

2010 - 7th
2009- 13th

Decent, but judging by the adulation the guy still receives around here you would would think he at least had a top five passing game

Zombie myths won't die.

EmpireOrange
09-19-2011, 12:04 PM
The Patriot Way, minus one of the greatest QB's of all time is retarded. Better?

It's not the system, it's the players.

He went 11-5 with cassel. Cassel!

bendog
09-19-2011, 12:04 PM
I doubt McDaniels sees it that way

He probably thinks he did a just jim dandy job.

bowtown
09-19-2011, 12:13 PM
McDaniels aside, I'm really torn between wanting nothing more than to see Haley get fired out on his ass like the bum he is and wanting him to remain in KC forever.

Drek
09-19-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm having a real hard time believing that huricane josh is already in line for a new coaching gig.

He was on the 49ers short list if they didn't get Harbaugh, according to multiple sources.

A lot of the NFL's decision makers seem to think that the Broncos problems of late go beyond who the HC was.

frerottenextelway
09-19-2011, 12:25 PM
John Fox is 10 times the coach that mother****er will ever be. **** him.

Taco John
09-19-2011, 12:29 PM
For the lulz:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=250247

WolfpackGuy
09-19-2011, 12:30 PM
Even the Cheaps fans don't want that radioactive turd.

LOL

jhns
09-19-2011, 12:31 PM
This would be awsome.

McDaniels has to be the worst offenensive guy in the league that people think can actually call good games. They will lose their biggest strength, the run game.

This would be great for us.

broncocalijohn
09-19-2011, 12:33 PM
well he will finally get back to Cassel....woo hoo

awesome! He will skip Luck in the draft and pick up a few high, quality draft picks. He will then pick the NFL's premier busts that are equivalent to Ryan Leaf status. This will be a good day. Hell, add a good 5 years if this happens.

McDaniels aside, I'm really torn between wanting nothing more than to see Haley get fired out on his ass like the bum he is and wanting him to remain in KC forever.

I f McDaniels can give just 50% of the effort he brought to Denver, I think you need to see Haley go.

24champ
09-19-2011, 12:40 PM
He was on the 49ers short list if they didn't get Harbaugh, according to multiple sources.

A lot of the NFL's decision makers seem to think that the Broncos problems of late go beyond who the HC was.

I always thought McD could have used Pioli in Denver to focus just on the HC gig and not the entire organization. That and we have former Patriot scouts in the FO and would have been a better situation at that time.

There's a chance they might work together in KC, hope it doesn't turn into a Raider/Shanahan situation.

broncocalijohn
09-19-2011, 12:42 PM
For the lulz:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=250247

Funniest post without trying to be hilarious:

From Track, first page,

"I wouldn't go that far... but I would become a Packers fan...might as well go with a winner."

You have to wonder how long he has been a fan of the crappy Chiefs to finally decide to possibly jump ship.

Rohirrim
09-19-2011, 12:45 PM
The funny thing is that Josh had success with Cassell. He might come in there and get them to win just enough games to drop out of the Luck sweepstakes.

DBroncos4life
09-19-2011, 12:47 PM
This scares the **** out of me.

Me too. That means a few more years of KC drafting in the top five, then I remember its McD we are talking about Ha!

DrFate
09-19-2011, 12:48 PM
The funny thing is that Josh had success with Cassell.

I wish people would stop repeating this. His 'success' was a 5 game drop from the previous season. He took a team that was 16-0, replaced Brady with Cassell, and immediately dropped 5 games.

Do that math with a 10 win team and see what you get.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 12:49 PM
He was on the 49ers short list if they didn't get Harbaugh, according to multiple sources.

A lot of the NFL's decision makers seem to think that the Broncos problems of late go beyond who the HC was.

Drek, we all know YOU think McD should get another shot.

I don't think anyone else does, regardless of what the "insiders" reported.

jhns
09-19-2011, 12:52 PM
Drek, we all know YOU think McD should get another shot.

I don't think anyone else does, regardless of what the "insiders" reported.

Yup. His current gig says no one wanted him.

Garcia Bronco
09-19-2011, 12:55 PM
The RAMS aren't going to let their OC walk in the middle of the season.

Garcia Bronco
09-19-2011, 12:56 PM
Drek, we all know YOU think McD should get another shot.

I don't think anyone else does, regardless of what the "insiders" reported.

I am suprised the little ****bag from Ohio got another job after he's been caught cheating twice.

TheReverend
09-19-2011, 12:59 PM
...is it Christmas?

TheReverend
09-19-2011, 01:00 PM
I wish people would stop repeating this. His 'success' was a 5 game drop from the previous season. He took a team that was 16-0, replaced Brady with Cassell, and immediately dropped 5 games.

Do that math with a 10 win team and see what you get.

LOL

He took an 8-8 team to 3-10.

Like clockwork!

DBroncos4life
09-19-2011, 01:04 PM
The RAMS aren't going to let their OC walk in the middle of the season.

I hear Haley might be looking for work soon

TheDave
09-19-2011, 01:04 PM
I am suprised the little ****bag from Ohio got another job after he's been caught cheating twice.

The cheating (1 in a losing effort), the draft history, The trades, FA blunders, the side line antics... besides coordinating and calling a solid passing game, what did he do?

FWIW bronco fans, take solace in this. The odds are VERY good that we just survived the worst coaching tenure we will ever have to see again. Soooo, it's all up from here.

I will kill myself laughing if he ever gets a HC job again.

24champ
09-19-2011, 01:08 PM
The cheating (1 in a losing effort), the draft history, The trades, FA blunders, the side line antics... besides coordinating and calling a solid passing game, what did he do?

FWIW bronco fans, take solace in this. The odds are VERY good that we just survived the worst coaching tenure we will ever have to see again. Soooo, it's all up from here.

I will kill myself laughing if he ever gets a HC job again.

I think the sad thing is we STILL have the worst decision makers in the organization. Say what you will about the coaching, but the decisions the Owner and Ellis have made over the past several years, probably spanning back a decade has really led us to where we are at now.

bendog
09-19-2011, 01:10 PM
Whoa, holy deja vu, where'd I hear this before

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-02-10/sam-bradford-josh-mcdaniels-have-yet-to-meet

EmpireOrange
09-19-2011, 01:10 PM
I wish people would stop repeating this. His 'success' was a 5 game drop from the previous season. He took a team that was 16-0, replaced Brady with Cassell, and immediately dropped 5 games.

Do that math with a 10 win team and see what you get.

I'm sorrry I can't seem to grasp you point here. Name another team who losing thier probowl QB in the first half of the first game that did not suffer a "drop off"? That is if you're wanna call 11-5 a drop off (rolling eyes) Come'on man, we're talking about 11-5 in a division where 11-5 came in second. Second!

Blueflame
09-19-2011, 01:10 PM
Yup. His current gig says no one wanted him.

I was unaware his "current gig" was as HC... someone should perhaps notify Spagnuolo. ::)

TheDave
09-19-2011, 01:12 PM
I think the sad thing is we STILL have the worst decision makers in the organization. Say what you will about the coaching, but the decisions the Owner and Ellis have made over the past several years, probably spanning back a decade has really led us to where we are at now.

I don't know about the 10 years worth of bad decisions angle, but I will give you this.

McD was the absolute equivalent of a monkey with a gun...and Bowlen et.al. were the ones who gave the monkey said gun. So they sure as hell get the lions share of the blame for the recent fiasco.

TonyR
09-19-2011, 01:14 PM
I'm sorrry I can't seem to grasp you point here. Name another team who losing thier probowl QB in the first half of the first game that did not suffer a "drop off"? That is if you're wanna call 11-5 a drop off (rolling eyes) Come'on man, we're talking about 11-5 in a division where 11-5 came in second. Second!

Yup, not to mention the fact that there were numerous other factors at work. He should probably consider what's going on in Indy right now before making such a great point again. All that said, McD did suck!

Archer81
09-19-2011, 01:15 PM
If McDaniels needs a reference I am 100% sure Bronco fans would gladly give him glowing reviews to the KC front office...


:Broncos:

DrFate
09-19-2011, 01:17 PM
I'm sorrry I can't seem to grasp you point here. Name another team who losing thier probowl QB in the first half of the first game that did not suffer a "drop off"? That is if you're wanna call 11-5 a drop off (rolling eyes) Come'on man, we're talking about 11-5 in a division where 11-5 came in second. Second!

I'm not sure what the confusion is here. People want to get all giddy because OC McDaniels 'succeeded' with craptastic Cassell. They had a net gain of negative five wins with this 'successful' tandem and failed to make the postseason.

I think any team would drop off if their QB got blown up (pro bowl or not). I think that's reasonable. But people get all stupid when they bring up McD and Cassell. Cassell couldn't start in college - there was a reason for this.

He was playing on the most talented team the NFL has seen in a long time (16-0, amazing offensive talent, solid defense, HOF coach, etc.) And they dropped FIVE GAMES from the previous season. People want to anoint McDaniels as some uber-genius because they dropped 5 games in the standings.

You need to look at the whole picture. KC got fooled by this inflated performance and they gave big dollars to Cassel. Bowlen got fooled and gave the franchise to McDaniels.

Rohirrim
09-19-2011, 01:19 PM
I wish people would stop repeating this. His 'success' was a 5 game drop from the previous season. He took a team that was 16-0, replaced Brady with Cassell, and immediately dropped 5 games.

Do that math with a 10 win team and see what you get.

"Replaced" Brady with Cassell? Damn. That's a new one. Here I thought that Brady got injured and Josh was still able to get eleven wins out of Cassell? I guess it's that glass half empty, half full thing.

Kaylore
09-19-2011, 01:21 PM
I can tell you one thing. If they hired McDaniels, Bob would be here telling everyone how awesome his is as a coach.

Bob on Shanahan as the Broncos coach: Shanahan is done. He's never going anywhere

Bob on Shanahan after the firing: Ha ha! You guys fired a HOF coach. You are fools to let him go. I hope the Chiefs get him.

DrFate
09-19-2011, 01:21 PM
Here I thought that Brady got injured and Josh was still able to get eleven wins out of Cassell?

We all know the facts. Brady had his knee blown out, Cassel replaced him.

I look at the fact that they won 19 games the year before with Brady and couldn't make the playoffs without him - and I'm simply not all starry-eyed by the McDaniels/Cassel performance.

People who want to prop up this dynamic duo act like this was some kind of tremendous achievement.

Boobs McGee
09-19-2011, 01:21 PM
I'm having a real hard time believing that huricane josh is already in line for a new coaching gig.

hahahaha quite possibly the best nickname I've heard so far. rep to you sir.

jhns
09-19-2011, 01:23 PM
I was unaware his "current gig" was as HC... someone should perhaps notify Spagnuolo. ::)

???

I was saying his current gig as a coordinator is proof no one wanted him as a head coach.

24champ
09-19-2011, 01:25 PM
I don't know about the 10 years worth of bad decisions angle, but I will give you this.

McD was the absolute equivalent of a monkey with a gun...and Bowlen et.al. were the ones who gave the monkey said gun. So they sure as hell get the lions share of the blame for the recent fiasco.

Bowlen and Ellis are the monkeys but really what was McDaniels supposed to do when the monkeys ran the Goodman's ran out of town? McD has been quoted then that he was very much looking forward to working with the Goodmans on the upcoming draft.

Prior to McD it was the Shanahan show and it was Shanahan's organization. He knew how to run a team. The team was always competitive in the standings and then Bowlen/Ellis had enough, took over and got their guys in (See Xanders). They pushed out the Goodman's and propped up Xanders, who basically had no clue how to be a GM and McDaniels had to take over everything. It was the only option that McD was left with.

Ellis and Bowlen had several opportunities to hire a GM, and there have been some very good GM candidates available through the years. Why haven't they hired one? Why didn't they hire one when the Goodmans left?

The problem has never been coaching over the years, we've had great gameday and X's and O's coaches, its been the FO. Why Bowlen and Co. continue to ignore that is beyond me. Maybe its a cost issue since Ellis/Xanders are essentially accountants.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 01:33 PM
Bowlen and Ellis are the monkeys but really what was McDaniels supposed to do when the monkeys ran the Goodman's ran out of town? McD has been quoted then that he was very much looking forward to working with the Goodmans on the upcoming draft.

and then went full retard... from Cutler to Alphonso Smith the next couple of months were just the start of the hurricane. I'm willing to say that taking away some of his babysitters was part of the problem. But stupid is as stupid does and the majority of what he did was just that... stupid.

Sorry to go all forest gump, but it just felt right.

Prior to McD it was the Shanahan show and it was Shanahan's organization. He knew how to run a team. The team was always competitive in the standings and then Bowlen/Ellis had enough, took over and got their guys in (See Xanders). They pushed out the Goodman's and propped up Xanders, who basically had no clue how to be a GM and McDaniels had to take over everything. It was the only option that McD was left with.

Ellis and Bowlen had several opportunities to hire a GM, and there have been some very good GM candidates available through the years. Why haven't they hired one? Why didn't they hire one when the Goodmans left?

The problem has never been coaching over the years, we've had great gameday and X's and O's coaches, its been the FO. Why Bowlen and Co. continue to ignore that is beyond me. Maybe its a cost issue since Ellis/Xanders are essentially accountants.

Were just disagreeing on the dates here, bowlen and co were fine until they fired shanny and went McD (a bit on the cheap side, but good enough). That was only 3 years ago. I know it feels like a decade but its only been 3.

broncosteven
09-19-2011, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't want to see McDaniels in the AFC West. With a real GM, and no control over the player personnel, he could be a good coach. And I wouldn't want a guy who's that motivated to seek revenge. Think Shanahan against the Raiders.

Actually I think the revenge would be the other way around, Broncos would want to exact revenge on his punk ass.

I don't see him getting another gig for at least 3-5 years he proved he new nothing about running an NFL team.

I would love to see mCd in KFC though, he could bring his brother and Wink back from Canton high and his 1st personnel move would be to trade for Lonnie (bob) Paxton.

TheReverend
09-19-2011, 01:36 PM
I was unaware his "current gig" was as HC... someone should perhaps notify Spagnuolo. ::)

I think you missed his point. He wasn't being sarcastic.

Blueflame
09-19-2011, 01:41 PM
???

I was saying his current gig as a coordinator is proof no one wanted him as a head coach.

After all of the blunders he made as HC of the Broncos, I dunno that he should be considered a viable HC candidate for any franchise, ever again. And certainly he should never... ever be given unlimited authority like Bowlen gave him.

Blueflame
09-19-2011, 01:42 PM
I think you missed his point. He wasn't being sarcastic.

Yup... I missed that it was Jhns, who disliked McDaniels almost as much as I did. LOL

bendog
09-19-2011, 01:45 PM
That's right, Dave. Just bring evolution into the argument, as if all the Tebowmania wasn't enough.

24champ
09-19-2011, 01:47 PM
and then went full retard... from Cutler to Alphonso Smith the next couple of months were just the start of the hurricane. I'm willing to say that taking away some of his babysitters was part of the problem. But stupid is as stupid does and the majority of what he did was just that... stupid.


It's been stated that the Cutler fiasco started when Shanahan got fired and the status of Bates in limbo. Bowlen didn't keep Cutler in the loop, didn't have to but Cutler felt he should have known prior and Bowlen was the one that traded Cutler. Not McDaniels. As for Alphonso Smith, he was traded because we were full at the Cornerback position and he was listed as 5th or 6th on the depth chart. Alphonso stated that the trade lit a fire in him, meaning he probably would have continued to half ass it at practices with the Broncos.


Were just disagreeing on the dates here, bowlen and co were fine until they fired shanny and went McD (a bit on the cheap side, but good enough). That was only 3 years ago. I know it feels like a decade but its only been 3.

It goes back farther than 3 years, Shanahan needed a good talent evaluator after the Super Bowl years. Ted Sundquist was not it, he was a career yes man for the organization, and once Shanahan put in some good talent evaluators like the Goodman's. We started having good drafts. Now they are gone and we are still stuck with Xanders.

bendog
09-19-2011, 01:49 PM
It goes back farther than 3 years, Shanahan needed a good talent evaluator after the Super Bowl years. Ted Sundquist was not it, he was a career yes man for the organization, and once Shanahan put in some good talent evaluators like the Goodman's. We started having good drafts. Now they are gone and we are still stuck with Xanders.

I don't mind the 11 draft at all.

24champ
09-19-2011, 01:50 PM
I don't mind the 11 draft at all.

Time will tell on the 11 draft. We'll see who sticks around in a couple years.

jhns
09-19-2011, 01:52 PM
It's been stated that the Cutler fiasco started when Shanahan got fired and the status of Bates in limbo. Bowlen didn't keep Cutler in the loop, didn't have to but Cutler felt he should have known prior and Bowlen was the one that traded Cutler. Not McDaniels. As for Alphonso Smith, he was traded because we were full at the Cornerback position and he was listed as 5th or 6th on the depth chart. Alphonso stated that the trade lit a fire in him, meaning he probably would have continued to half ass it at practices with the Broncos.


Are you really still using this crap justification to defend McDaniels? McDaniels, Cutler, Bowlen, and Cutlers agent all said the stuff about Bates was crap. Cutler wanted out because his head coach lied to him and then tried playing childish games. Cutler would still be here if it weren't for McDaniels. These are the facts...

TheDave
09-19-2011, 01:54 PM
It's been stated that the Cutler fiasco started when Shanahan got fired and the status of Bates in limbo. Bowlen didn't keep Cutler in the loop, didn't have to but Cutler felt he should have known prior and Bowlen was the one that traded Cutler. Not McDaniels. As for Alphonso Smith, he was traded because we were full at the Cornerback position and he was listed as 5th or 6th on the depth chart. Alphonso stated that the trade lit a fire in him, meaning he probably would have continued to half ass it at practices with the Broncos.

You need to find someone else to waste your time excusing McD's actions too... For 2 years i watched people do exactly what you are doing. Each individual action micro-analyzed until group psychosis kicked in and the pro-mcd lemmings would conclude he was doing everything right.

Every disaster that has happened to this team in the last 2 years has one thing in common.

broncosteven
09-19-2011, 01:56 PM
It's been stated that the Cutler fiasco started when Shanahan got fired and the status of Bates in limbo. Bowlen didn't keep Cutler in the loop, didn't have to but Cutler felt he should have known prior and Bowlen was the one that traded Cutler. Not McDaniels. As for Alphonso Smith, he was traded because we were full at the Cornerback position and he was listed as 5th or 6th on the depth chart. Alphonso stated that the trade lit a fire in him, meaning he probably would have continued to half ass it at practices with the Broncos.

...

Don't you think that mCd could have flat out lost Smith with his "respect my AuthoriTIE" b.s.? Plus there was the **** about making Champ run conditioning drills and making an example of him out of the gate.

It was very apparent that Smith wasn't the only one mCd lost. He had lost the entire team around the Raider blowout (1st one). Had Smith come into a real team with a real HC I doubt he is such a head case out of the gate.

24champ
09-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Are you really still using this crap justification to defend McDaniels? McDaniels, Cutler, Bowlen, and Cutlers agent all said the stuff about Bates was crap. Cutler wanted out because his head coach lied to him and then tried playing childish games. Cutler would still be here if it weren't for McDaniels. These are the facts...

On Shanny's firing...

"I'm disappointed, I'm shocked, I'm not happy about it, I'm not pleased with it at all," Cutler said by phone Tuesday. "We had zero inkling this was going to happen. I didn't have a clue."


He was pissed at Bowlen.

jhns
09-19-2011, 02:01 PM
On Shanny's firing...

"I'm disappointed, I'm shocked, I'm not happy about it, I'm not pleased with it at all," Cutler said by phone Tuesday. "We had zero inkling this was going to happen. I didn't have a clue."


He was pissed at Bowlen.

He was in the facility working from then until the trade stuff. The trade talk happens and he suddenly asks for a trade. I don't think your defense of McDaniels makes any sense.

bendog
09-19-2011, 02:02 PM
Time will tell on the 11 draft. We'll see who sticks around in a couple years.

nah, that's hindsight. McD passed on Orakpo for Knowshow and traded a one for A. Smith. That was bool**** when it went down. EFX took the biggest defensive impact player, got a couple of extra picks by trading down and then went BPA ... of course when you suck at every position outside of LT and maybe Ayers and a serviceble linebacker and sack specialist and wr....

24champ
09-19-2011, 02:06 PM
Don't you think that mCd could have flat out lost Smith with his "respect my AuthoriTIE" b.s.? Plus there was the **** about making Champ run conditioning drills and making an example of him out of the gate.

So what about the other players were not half-assing it in practices? Shanahan did the same things, if you weren't on board, you were shipped out.

As for Champ Bailey, every player has to pass conditioning tests. That's how it is at every TC, and Champ admitted he came in a little out of shape and figured he would work it off in training camp.


It was very apparent that Smith wasn't the only one mCd lost. He had lost the entire team around the Raider blowout (1st one). Had Smith come into a real team with a real HC I doubt he is such a head case out of the gate.


He didn't lose the players. He lost some of the fans after that game, yes.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16442435

24champ
09-19-2011, 02:07 PM
He was in the facility working from then until the trade stuff. The trade talk happens and he suddenly asks for a trade. I don't think your defense of McDaniels makes any sense.

Who was he working with in the Facility? That's right...Josh McDaniels. Ha!

DBroncos4life
09-19-2011, 02:11 PM
I do worry about him knowing all of the places to hide to video tape our practices.

DrFate
09-19-2011, 02:15 PM
I do worry about him knowing all of the places to hide to video tape our practices.

Don't worry - 'game' Kyle is no where near as light on his feet as 'practice' Kyle

Drek
09-19-2011, 02:24 PM
Drek, we all know YOU think McD should get another shot.

I don't think anyone else does, regardless of what the "insiders" reported.
Except the teams who offered him their OC position, such as the Rams where he gets to coach their 1st overall pick franchise QB and has been given significantly control over the offense.

Yup. His current gig says no one wanted him.

Yup. Being given control of an offense with a young franchise QB where the previous OC got a head coaching gig after only one year as an OC is a pretty dog **** job to have.

Broncos fans need to move the hell on. McDaniels did a bad job here. Almost all of it was tied to his personnel decisions which wasn't even the job he was hired to do. It became his job when Bowlen and Ellis fired our most experienced FO guy to clear space for our current GM who by his own admission had zero checks and balances power on McDaniels. That same GM didn't get us dick for help out of FA this past off-season either.

Meanwhile the rest of the league sees that wasn't the job McDaniels was supposed to be doing in the first place and as soon as the market for coaches got rolling he was scooped up by a team on the rise with a young franchise QB.

I don't think he'll leave after a single season because I think he now sees the difference between a head coaching position and the right head coaching position. KC isn't that unless they do win the Luck sweepstakes and both Pioli and Crennel stay on board. There is also the massive credibility boost he'll get if he develops Bradford into an elite QB.

But to assume the rest of the league has the same view of McDaniels as Broncos fans when he got a new high profile job as soon as the market for coaches opened just screams of blind resentment.

jhns
09-19-2011, 02:30 PM
Except the teams who offered him their OC position, such as the Rams where he gets to coach their 1st overall pick franchise QB and has been given significantly control over the offense.



Yup. Being given control of an offense with a young franchise QB where the previous OC got a head coaching gig after only one year as an OC is a pretty dog **** job to have.

Broncos fans need to move the hell on. McDaniels did a bad job here. Almost all of it was tied to his personnel decisions which wasn't even the job he was hired to do. It became his job when Bowlen and Ellis fired our most experienced FO guy to clear space for our current GM who by his own admission had zero checks and balances power on McDaniels. That same GM didn't get us dick for help out of FA this past off-season either.

Meanwhile the rest of the league sees that wasn't the job McDaniels was supposed to be doing in the first place and as soon as the market for coaches got rolling he was scooped up by a team on the rise with a young franchise QB.

I don't think he'll leave after a single season because I think he now sees the difference between a head coaching position and the right head coaching position. KC isn't that unless they do win the Luck sweepstakes and both Pioli and Crennel stay on board. There is also the massive credibility boost he'll get if he develops Bradford into an elite QB.

But to assume the rest of the league has the same view of McDaniels as Broncos fans when he got a new high profile job as soon as the market for coaches opened just screams of blind resentment.

There are many people who have never had problems finding coordinator jobs after being fired for being a ****ty head coach. The majority of these guys do not get head coaching jobs again. Your reasoning is flawed.

I almost find it offensive that people claiming to be Bronco fans still want to defend the worst thing to ever happen to this franchise. You have no pride.

Drek
09-19-2011, 02:31 PM
Every disaster that has happened to this team in the last 2 years has one thing in common.

Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis keep acting like bean counters when making football decisions?

24champ
09-19-2011, 02:32 PM
Except the teams who offered him their OC position, such as the Rams where he gets to coach their 1st overall pick franchise QB and has been given significantly control over the offense.



Yup. Being given control of an offense with a young franchise QB where the previous OC got a head coaching gig after only one year as an OC is a pretty dog **** job to have.

Broncos fans need to move the hell on. McDaniels did a bad job here. Almost all of it was tied to his personnel decisions which wasn't even the job he was hired to do. It became his job when Bowlen and Ellis fired our most experienced FO guy to clear space for our current GM who by his own admission had zero checks and balances power on McDaniels. That same GM didn't get us dick for help out of FA this past off-season either.

Meanwhile the rest of the league sees that wasn't the job McDaniels was supposed to be doing in the first place and as soon as the market for coaches got rolling he was scooped up by a team on the rise with a young franchise QB.

I don't think he'll leave after a single season because I think he now sees the difference between a head coaching position and the right head coaching position. KC isn't that unless they do win the Luck sweepstakes and both Pioli and Crennel stay on board. There is also the massive credibility boost he'll get if he develops Bradford into an elite QB.

But to assume the rest of the league has the same view of McDaniels as Broncos fans when he got a new high profile job as soon as the market for coaches opened just screams of blind resentment.

Spot on.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 02:32 PM
Broncos fans need to move the hell on.



We are currently experiencing the 1st post McD season. It might be just a tad early to move on...Oh I understand you would like us all to forget the many well written 5 paragraph essays convincing everyone McD and the broncos were on the right track.

Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis keep acting like bean counters when making football decisions...

Drek, just as a reality check... do you realize you've been wrong most of the time for the last 2 years. With that in mind, do you really think you should be so sure of your opinions?

24champ
09-19-2011, 02:34 PM
There are many people who have never had problems finding coordinator jobs after being fired for being a ****ty head coach. The majority of these guys do not get head coaching jobs again. Your reasoning is flawed.

I almost find it offensive that people claiming to be Bronco fans still want to defend the worst thing to ever happen to this franchise. You have no pride.

No, we just realize the problems go deeper than just McDaniels.

Drek
09-19-2011, 02:36 PM
There are many people who have never had problems finding coordinator jobs after being fired for being a ****ty head coach. The majority of these guys do not get head coaching jobs again. Your reasoning is flawed.

I almost find it offensive that people claiming to be Bronco fans still want to defend the worst thing to ever happen to this franchise. You have no pride.

The worst thing to ever happen to this franchise is still here. Pat Bowlen post-Shanahan mind control along with Joe Ellis.

Xanders is still here only he's supposedly been given more authority after completely bending over for McDaniels.

Ellis and Bowlen, the people who removed our experienced football staff in two successive swathes (Shanahan followed by the senior Goodman), the second of which happened before the ink was even dry on McDaniels' contract.

The same people who actually waged a PR war with Cutler's representatives and then pushed McDaniels into trading him after McDaniels spent the entire time talking about how Jay was his QB and he'd see him in camp.

Also the same people who clearly have this current regime working on a shoe string budget, resulting in us signing 30 year old oft injured Ty Warren over 26 year old very healthy Brandon Mebane because Mebane got $1M more per season.

That brain trust is still here. They aren't going anywhere. Maybe Fox and Elway can pull the old man away from his own personal Grima Wormtongue given a few more seasons, but the infection that sunk this organization from a perennial 8-8 club down to a cellar dweller is still here. The McDaniels era was nothing more than a symptom.

jhns
09-19-2011, 02:37 PM
No, we just realize the problems go deeper than just McDaniels.

By making excuses for his stupidity?

broncosteven
09-19-2011, 02:40 PM
So what about the other players were not half-assing it in practices? Shanahan did the same things, if you weren't on board, you were shipped out.

As for Champ Bailey, every player has to pass conditioning tests. That's how it is at every TC, and Champ admitted he came in a little out of shape and figured he would work it off in training camp.





He didn't lose the players. He lost some of the fans after that game, yes.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16442435

I read an article were the players admitted that mCd had lost the vets and looked lost the last couple of weeks he was at Dove Valley. It came out around the 1st week of TC.

jhns
09-19-2011, 02:41 PM
The worst thing to ever happen to this franchise is still here. Pat Bowlen post-Shanahan mind control along with Joe Ellis.

Xanders is still here only he's supposedly been given more authority after completely bending over for McDaniels.

Ellis and Bowlen, the people who removed our experienced football staff in two successive swathes (Shanahan followed by the senior Goodman), the second of which happened before the ink was even dry on McDaniels' contract.

The same people who actually waged a PR war with Cutler's representatives and then pushed McDaniels into trading him after McDaniels spent the entire time talking about how Jay was his QB and he'd see him in camp.

Also the same people who clearly have this current regime working on a shoe string budget, resulting in us signing 30 year old oft injured Ty Warren over 26 year old very healthy Brandon Mebane because Mebane got $1M more per season.

That brain trust is still here. They aren't going anywhere. Maybe Fox and Elway can pull the old man away from his own personal Grima Wormtongue given a few more seasons, but the infection that sunk this organization from a perennial 8-8 club down to a cellar dweller is still here. The McDaniels era was nothing more than a symptom.

I couldn't make it past your second sentence. Bowlen is the best thing to ever happen to this franchise, followed by Elway and Shanahan. I would lovefor Ellis and Xanders to be fired but you need to learn some respect for the man that brought this franchise its best years.

You love McDaniels so much that you are willing to throw everyone else under the bus to defend him. Very sad...

TheDave
09-19-2011, 02:42 PM
I read an article were the players admitted that mCd had lost the vets and looked lost the last couple of weeks he was at Dove Valley. It came out around the 1st week of TC.

His own coaching staff committed mutiny... His failure was absolutely 100% complete.

You would think that defending his tenure would be impossible...guess not.

Kaylore
09-19-2011, 02:43 PM
I read an article were the players admitted that mCd had lost the vets and looked lost the last couple of weeks he was at Dove Valley. It came out around the 1st week of TC.

I didn't read that article, but I didn't need to to come to that conclusion. He's a terrible motivator. He just screams and swears and it just seems sad.

24champ
09-19-2011, 02:44 PM
By making excuses for his stupidity?

By stating that Bowlen and Ellis are the real problem.

They don't have a clue what they are doing.

jhns
09-19-2011, 02:47 PM
By stating that Bowlen and Ellis are the real problem.

They don't have a clue what they are doing.

I agree on Ellis, he needs to go. Other than that, the facts don't agree with you McFans when it comes to Bowlen. Two SBs and a **** ton of wins says he does know what he is doing and just made a bad decision.

bowtown
09-19-2011, 02:58 PM
I agree on Ellis, he needs to go. Other than that, the facts don't agree with you McFans when it comes to Bowlen. Two SBs and a **** ton of wins says he does know what he is doing and just made a bad decision.

Wow SoCal must be the king of the McFans then.

Drek
09-19-2011, 02:58 PM
We are currently experiencing the 1st post McD season. It might be just a tad early to move on...Oh I understand you would like us all to forget the many well written 5 paragraph essays convincing everyone McD and the broncos were on the right track.



Drek, just as a reality check... do you realize you've been wrong most of the time for the last 2 years. With that in mind, do you really think you should be so sure of your opinions?

Really? How so?

I said Kyle Orton under McDaniels could perform like a top 10-15 QB while most were claiming him a horrible scrub who would be beaten out by Chris Simms. Right on that one.

I said the season after that I didn't see top 5 QB potential in Orton when so many others were ready to buy in to Orton + McDaniels the next off-season. Repeatedly said we needed more QB options. Right on that one too.

I said trading Jay Cutler was a smart move because he lacks the next gear to win big games. Still waiting to be proven wrong there as Cutler still hasn't matched his best season in Denver statistically and has cost a great Bears defense and special teams more than he's given them over the course of his tenure there.

I said trading Marshall for two picks was a good deal. He proceeded to get stabbed by his wife the next off-season, has had hip issues, his production dropped off outside of Denver, and Lloyd more than replaced his production. All without giving him the top WR contract in the league at that time. Better yet, San Diego tried to trade Vincent Jackson for a similar return and couldn't even find any takers. Where was I so wrong there?

I said trading Alphonso Smith instead of just cutting Nate Jones was the wrong move and we'd soon regret it. Well we are now because Smith is a valuable contributor for the Lions.

I also said we got a useful piece for Smith in Dan Gronkowski if we'd put him in the right positions. We didn't and as soon as we dropped him he's looking pretty solid as the #3 behind his little brother in New England.

Said at the start of last season we needed veteran help on the line, specifically referencing Mawae being a free agent. We did nothing and it was a large part in destroying our season last year. Funny though that we're doing it once again this season.

Robert Ayers - continually maturing and is a solid starter despite having his position jerked around.

Knowshon Moreno - Has played in 30 of a maximum 33 career games and is the most productive RB ever in McDaniels offense. Had a solid rookie campaign and improved on a per game basis in year 2 despite worse OL play. I still have no idea why people here label him a bust.

I don't see anything I've been wildly wrong on. I was cautiously optimistic that Wink would have the defense treading water but given the loss of Doom for the year and Ayers for a large chunk in the middle of the season, coupled with a joke for an OL preventing any form of ball control, you can see why that flew out the window. But sure, I did seriously underestimate the loss of Nolan (which in retrospect apparently happened some time in the middle of 2009).

None of us have any insight as to what is actually being talked about inside the Broncos offices. We can only speculate on what we can see. McDaniels hasn't won football games. I never predicted that we'd suddenly win titles with him. Hell, I was one of the few little black rain clouds on this board when we were 6-0 his first season, telling people a reality check was coming.

I just make the optimist's argument that many of the football moves weren't bad football moves in themselves and I still think time will bare this out. When in a couple years we look back I think its entirely possible we'll view Moreno, Ayers, Beadles, Walton, Thomas, Decker, and Tebow all as key components of a good team while guys like Bruton, Colquitt, Thompson, and Vaughn will still be solid participants.

jhns
09-19-2011, 02:59 PM
Wow SoCal must be the king of the McFans then.

That is just a stupid response. I have never seen him make excuses for McDaniels. Not even once.

Drek
09-19-2011, 03:02 PM
I couldn't make it past your second sentence. Bowlen is the best thing to ever happen to this franchise, followed by Elway and Shanahan. I would lovefor Ellis and Xanders to be fired but you need to learn some respect for the man that brought this franchise its best years.

You love McDaniels so much that you are willing to throw everyone else under the bus to defend him. Very sad...

Bowlen is the Denver Broncos. When you don't like where the Broncos are at (like going 2-14) you don't like how Bowlen is running the club. Simple as that.

I don't discount all the good he's done here just because he's allowed himself to be subverted by a bean counter looking to put his own mark on this franchise. I just acknowledge that Bowlen is the one letting it happen.

If you would have read further you would have saw the Wormtongue reference and the suggestion that Elway and Fox might break Bowlen out of this malaise. But make no mistake about what it is. As long as Ellis and Xanders have real authority with the Broncos we're fighting an uphill battle even trying to return to respectability.

bowtown
09-19-2011, 03:02 PM
That is just a stupid response. I have never seen him make excuses for McDaniels. Not even once.

But you just refered to people bashing Bowlen as McFans. So is it only McFans that do it, or can others do it too? What cute little name do you have for them?

jhns
09-19-2011, 03:02 PM
And LOL @ drek. I think he actually believes what he types.

How can you defend everything McDaniels did as he tanked this franchise and then think you were right about everything? Head scratcher for sure.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-19-2011, 03:03 PM
Dear Santa,

Please make this happen. I've been a good boy.

Your pal,

Doc B.

jhns
09-19-2011, 03:04 PM
But you just refered to people bashing Bowlen as McFans. So is it only McFans that do it, or can others do it too? What cute little name do you have for them?

The people I am talking to are McFans...

Drek
09-19-2011, 03:07 PM
His own coaching staff committed mutiny... His failure was absolutely 100% complete.

You would think that defending his tenure would be impossible...guess not.

Because he was a deplorably bad manager of personnel. I don't see anyone defending his results. But painting all the methodology and all aspects of it as horrible is wildly inaccurate itself.

Despite popular sentiment now that he's gone McDaniels did in fact make some good decisions here. In fact, at one point he had made quite a few, hence his 6-0 start. He just proceeded to negate those positives due to just god awful managerial skills.

Broncos fans shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, despite the rush by so many to do just that.

And as for McDaniels, managerial skills can and often are learned through failure. I wouldn't be surprised if he's far, far less "Belicheckian" the rest of his career in the NFL, another shot as a head coach or not.

24champ
09-19-2011, 03:08 PM
I agree on Ellis, he needs to go. Other than that, the facts don't agree with you McFans when it comes to Bowlen. Two SBs and a **** ton of wins says he does know what he is doing and just made a bad decision.

Bowlen doesn't even run the Broncos on a day to day basis anymore, he pretty much spends 3/4ths of the year in Hawaii getting baked and drinking.

He let all of this happen, and continues to employ morons like Ellis and Xanders who run the organization for him. It's time for him to sell the team, get a new Owner in there to revitalize the franchise and go in a new direction etc.

Drek
09-19-2011, 03:08 PM
And LOL @ drek. I think he actually believes what he types.

How can you defend everything McDaniels did as he tanked this franchise and then think you were right about everything? Head scratcher for sure.

Why not debate the points then?

I doubt you truly understand why this organization has tanked, if you think the moves I highlighted were the source of it.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 03:14 PM
Really? How so?

I said Kyle Orton under McDaniels could perform like a top 10-15 QB while most were claiming him a horrible scrub who would be beaten out by Chris Simms. Right on that one.

Obviosly you have a different idea of KO than the rest of the board... Go find someone, anyone that believes KO was a top 10 QB either 2008 or 09. I'll wait.

I said the season after that I didn't see top 5 QB potential in Orton when so many others were ready to buy in to Orton + McDaniels the next off-season. Repeatedly said we needed more QB options. Right on that one too.

After we just lost 8 out of 10? Maybe your merry band of Mcd backers, but not the rest of the world. Maybe you forgot but there was a significant amount of people around here that were chanting tebow.

I said trading Jay Cutler was a smart move because he lacks the next gear to win big games. Still waiting to be proven wrong there as Cutler still hasn't matched his best season in Denver statistically and has cost a great Bears defense and special teams more than he's given them over the course of his tenure there.

Do you even visit reality... kid was in the AFC championship game with absolutely nothing at WR or O-line. Yet he couldn't equal his statistical peak under mike shanahan, when he had Royal, clady, Marshal, Hilis, and scheffler?

If you really believe this to be a valid argument, then we have absolutely nothing left to discuss. Jay Cutler is and always has been 10X what we have at QB. We are going to spend a lot of time and resources trying to replace him and make up for that "Smart Move"

You know what... this is a waste of time.

We will be reloading this team for years to come because of that egomaniacle idiot... You want to defend him and continue proving your ignorance, have at it.

jhns
09-19-2011, 03:14 PM
Why not debate the points then?

I doubt you truly understand why this organization has tanked, if you think the moves I highlighted were the source of it.

You defend the Cutler move, which was a horrible mistake.

You defend tue Marshall move, which was a horrible mistake.

You defended the drafting of Smith, which was a horrible mistake.

You defended his drafts, which were terrible.

Etc...

Really, I may just have to bump some of our old arguments now that you want to put some, "I am always right!" spin on it...

bowtown
09-19-2011, 03:21 PM
You defend tue Marshall move, which was a horrible mistake.



http://files.sharenator.com/lulz_9150_1_FOR_TEH_LULZ-s354x419-90050-580.png

jhns
09-19-2011, 03:23 PM
http://files.sharenator.com/lulz_9150_1_FOR_TEH_LULZ-s354x419-90050-580.png

A. Horrible. Mistake.

Eldorado
09-19-2011, 03:32 PM
A. Horrible. Mistake.

Paying marshall would have been a horrible mistake.

jhns
09-19-2011, 03:34 PM
Paying marshall would have been a horrible mistake.

I don't agree. He was having a HOF career, hasn't had any more trouble, and would have given us the best receiver set in the league.

bowtown
09-19-2011, 03:36 PM
I don't agree. He was having a HOF career, hasn't had any more trouble, and would have given us the best receiver set in the league.

Yeah, no more trouble at all... I mean except for that whole little thing where his wife STABBED HIM.

Uhh

jhns
09-19-2011, 03:39 PM
Yeah, no more trouble at all... I mean except for that whole little thing where his wife STABBED HIM.

Uhh

That is Marshall causing trouble? Did he miss time or get suspended and I just didn't hear about it?

Drek
09-19-2011, 03:44 PM
Obviosly you have a different idea of KO than the rest of the board... Go find someone, anyone that believes KO was a top 10 QB either 2008 or 09. I'll wait.
I didn't say he was a top 10 QB. I said he could be a top 10-15 QB. I.e. within the 10-15 QB range. Slightly above average. Which was the general consensus on him after 2009.

After we just lost 8 out of 10? Maybe your merry band of Mcd backers, but not the rest of the world. Maybe you forgot but there was a significant amount of people around here that were chanting tebow.
There were multiple pre-draft threads where people on here talked about Orton's ceiling and how he could take the next step going into 2010. I said in those threads, repeatedly, that I believe we saw Orton's ceiling and that we needed more QB competition.

You apparently either weren't on this board much post-'09 season and pre-draft or you have a very powerful brand of selective dissonance if you don't think many people on this board were drinking the Orton kool-aid at that time.

Do you even visit reality... kid was in the AFC championship game with absolutely nothing at WR or O-line. Yet he couldn't equal his statistical peak under mike shanahan, when he had Royal, clady, Marshal, Hilis, and scheffler?
He was a burden on that team. If you actually think otherwise you simply didn't watch the games. An inferior Bears defense to what Cutler had last year carried Rex Grossman to a Super Bowl. If you didn't notice the biggest improvement the Bears made offensively in 2010 wasn't better OL or better WRs. It was simply having Jay Cutler throw the ball less. A lot less. But sure, he's a franchise QB.

If you really believe this to be a valid argument, then we have absolutely nothing left to discuss. Jay Cutler is and always has been 10X what we have at QB. We are going to spend a lot of time and resources trying to replace him and make up for that "Smart Move"
Cutler is the polar opposite of Kyle Orton and hamstrings a team nearly as bad. While Orton is afraid to do anything for fear of negative results Cutler will try anything regardless of said negative results. He isn't a good quarterback. He's average and a very inconsistent average at that.

You know what... this is a waste of time.
If you seriously believe Cutler is something of real value at QB then yes, it definitely is.

We will be reloading this team for years to come because of that egomaniacle idiot... You want to defend him and continue proving your ignorance, have at it.
This only further underscores my point, FYI. The "egomaniacle idiot" wasn't even the one who traded Cutler, which the entire rest of your point was about. He's the guy in this organization who kept saying we were keeping him. It was Bowlen who made the decision to trade Cutler.

You also fail to see the difference between defending some of the moves and keeping perspective versus a blanket defense of the entire time period. If you are unable to see and trees in this forest this discussion becomes completely pointless.

Drek
09-19-2011, 03:46 PM
That is Marshall causing trouble? Did he miss time or get suspended and I just didn't hear about it?

No, he just played poorly last season. Distracted, behind on his rehab from hip surgery, and obviously hampered by all that was going on. That is self admitted by the way.

Awesome guy to give a record setting WR contract to though. Much better value than Brandon Lloyd's couple million per year contract. Unless that whole catching passes and putting up yardage thing matters to you.

broncocalijohn
09-19-2011, 03:52 PM
I don't agree. He was having a HOF career, hasn't had any more trouble, and would have given us the best receiver set in the league.

We replaced him on que with much less money and less headaches. During the offseason, it comes out BM has personality defects and gets stabbed. Dude has issues and has poor choices. We don't have one Flava Clown on this team since he has been gone. One of the better moves by McDaniels in a full room of fail.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 03:53 PM
this discussion becomes completely pointless.

We hit that point as soon as you started defending McD... I'm glad you finally realize that.

jhns
09-19-2011, 03:56 PM
No, he just played poorly last season. Distracted, behind on his rehab from hip surgery, and obviously hampered by all that was going on. That is self admitted by the way.

Awesome guy to give a record setting WR contract to though. Much better value than Brandon Lloyd's couple million per year contract. Unless that whole catching passes and putting up yardage thing matters to you.

Yeah, because he has proven he can't produce on this team! What an intelligent argument. Or is it that 86 catches is bad production? Or maybe you are going to claim that Lloyd replaced Marshall again. That would make sense if he wasn't on the roster for a year before Marshall left.

Me, I use my brain instead of my McFanism to form opinions. I see that it would have been Marshall and Lloyd on this team. I see that he hasn't caused any trouble. I see that 86 catches is a fantastic year for the majority of wide receivers in this league. I see that the fact you can argue his production was so poor just shows how insane his past production has been in order for you to think his last year was so bad in comparison.

DrFate
09-19-2011, 04:27 PM
I said he could be a top 10-15 QB. I.e. within the 10-15 QB range. Slightly above average. Which was the general consensus on him after 2009.

Orton below average - always has been, always will be. It's been proven conclusively in multiple threads. Simply saying he's not doesn't make it true.

Vine
09-19-2011, 04:42 PM
I realize this is fully off-topic, but this is the only way I am apparently able to post messages- that being in reply to an existing thread. If I try to start a new topic, it won't go through. I don't get any error message, instead, I just get a blank white screen. Is anybody else having this problem, and could anyone suggest what I can do to fix this problem?

HAT
09-19-2011, 04:58 PM
I realize this is fully off-topic, but this is the only way I am apparently able to post messages- that being in reply to an existing thread. If I try to start a new topic, it won't go through. I don't get any error message, instead, I just get a blank white screen. Is anybody else having this problem, and could anyone suggest what I can do to fix this problem?

You have to be here a year before you can start threads.














J/K.

Post it with a 3 letter title and it will go through. Then hit edit > go advanced and change the title to whatever you want.

broncocalijohn
09-19-2011, 04:58 PM
I realize this is fully off-topic, but this is the only way I am apparently able to post messages- that being in reply to an existing thread. If I try to start a new topic, it won't go through. I don't get any error message, instead, I just get a blank white screen. Is anybody else having this problem, and could anyone suggest what I can do to fix this problem?

Not sure if we want you to start a thread, but put one letter in the heading and then go back and advanced edit the thing. ou have too many posts for a newbie, that is why you get the "error".

HAT
09-19-2011, 05:01 PM
This only further underscores my point, FYI. The "egomaniacle idiot" wasn't even the one who traded Cutler, which the entire rest of your point was about. He's the guy in this organization who kept saying we were keeping him. It was Bowlen who made the decision to trade Cutler.
.

I don't care who you want to credit with the Cutler trade.....The important thing is that it happened. What a loser that guy is. ^5

TheReverend
09-19-2011, 05:16 PM
No, he just played poorly last season. Distracted, behind on his rehab from hip surgery, and obviously hampered by all that was going on. That is self admitted by the way.

Awesome guy to give a record setting WR contract to though. Much better value than Brandon Lloyd's couple million per year contract. Unless that whole catching passes and putting up yardage thing matters to you.

No he didn't...

TheReverend
09-19-2011, 06:53 PM
Lol @ MNF possession

1st and goal @ the 1? Pass!

"That didn't work Josh."

"I don't understand... it worked great when I had Brady, Moss and Welker!"

broncosteven
09-19-2011, 07:54 PM
Lol @ MNF possession

1st and goal @ the 1? Pass!

"That didn't work Josh."

"I don't understand... it worked great when I had Brady, Moss and Welker!"

I like how Bradford threw the backward pass but no one other than Bradford realized it was backward or tried to run it down. Great prep by a guy who repeatedly got burned by fake punts.

broncosteven
09-19-2011, 07:56 PM
I didn't read that article, but I didn't need to to come to that conclusion. He's a terrible motivator. He just screams and swears and it just seems sad.

He is just trying to win a MFing game!

It is sad, I am guessing if he was either older or played as a backup in the NFL he wouldn't have had to try to be a "my way or the highway" dickhead.

colonelbeef
09-20-2011, 08:23 AM
"Replaced" Brady with Cassell? Damn. That's a new one. Here I thought that Brady got injured and Josh was still able to get eleven wins out of Cassell? I guess it's that glass half empty, half full thing.


Yeah, thank god for Josh McDaniels. The Bill Belichick Patriots didn't win 3 super bowls prior to him becoming OC, and sure have dropped off since he left. Oh wait, Brady went for 500 yards game 1 of this season.

It's amazing how people can't just see him for what he is- another coat tail riding failure who thought he carried the same gravitas as his mentor.

Charlie Weis was the genius before him.

Maybe it's Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, and a host of defensive and ST stars that have accounted for the Pats success, hmm?

frerottenextelway
09-25-2011, 03:48 PM
Lol, Bradford is 4/15 17 0 1 today. Poor Ram fans!

KCStud
09-25-2011, 04:47 PM
Silver is an idiot. He was on 610 sports and couldn't come up with a legit reason for this claim. Pure speculation.

fontaine
09-25-2011, 04:57 PM
McDouche isn't worth talking about.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-25-2011, 04:58 PM
Silver is an idiot. He was on 610 sports and couldn't come up with a legit reason for this claim. Pure speculation.

The thought of McD taking over at KC has given me a week long priapism. It's the sexiest thing I have ever read.

24champ
09-25-2011, 05:09 PM
Chargers might lose. Yikes.

gunns
09-25-2011, 05:24 PM
Lol, Bradford is 4/15 17 0 1 today. Poor Ram fans!

Have a friend who's a Ram's fan and had high hopes for the season. Talked to him after last weeks game and he said he can't figure out what has happened to the offense. One complaint was that they can't seem to score in the red zone. I just laughed. He said the offense seems to methodical and like they don't know the plays. Then I really laughed

Gutless Drunk
11-25-2011, 09:00 PM
Disappointing McDaniels under the gun in St. Louis

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/11/23/disappointing-mcdaniels-under-the-gun-in-st-louis

It's a safe bet very few people in St. Louis, aside from maybe WR Brandon Lloyd, have much confidence in Rams offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels these days. The former highly successful Patriots coordinator is being widely regarded as a dismal failure in his first season running a Rams offense that has never stopped spinning its wheels. "I know there have been a lot of injuries," one team insider said, "but when you have a three-time Pro Bowler at running back (Steven Jackson) and the No. 1 overall pick at quarterback (Sam Bradford), and also have invested such a huge amount of money in your offensive line, you just have to be better than what they've showed." McDaniels became more unpopular after inexplicably featuring a naked-backfield spread passing attack against Seattle in Week 11 that completely nullified Jackson, who couldn't have been hotter entering the game.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-25-2011, 09:10 PM
True story: there are Bronco fans that truly wish this guy was still here... with Orton... and without he who shall not be named in this post. Is such a thing really possible? Yes, it is...

broncosteven
11-25-2011, 09:25 PM
Disappointing McDaniels under the gun in St. Louis

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/11/23/disappointing-mcdaniels-under-the-gun-in-st-louis

It's a safe bet very few people in St. Louis, aside from maybe WR Brandon Lloyd, have much confidence in Rams offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels these days. The former highly successful Patriots coordinator is being widely regarded as a dismal failure in his first season running a Rams offense that has never stopped spinning its wheels. "I know there have been a lot of injuries," one team insider said, "but when you have a three-time Pro Bowler at running back (Steven Jackson) and the No. 1 overall pick at quarterback (Sam Bradford), and also have invested such a huge amount of money in your offensive line, you just have to be better than what they've showed." McDaniels became more unpopular after inexplicably featuring a naked-backfield spread passing attack against Seattle in Week 11 that completely nullified Jackson, who couldn't have been hotter entering the game.

Sounds like it is time for his dad to come out to St. Louis and stand on the side lines with him.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/files/2010/12/mcdaniels.jpg

cutthemdown
11-25-2011, 09:27 PM
Rams offense has stunk. Not sure Mcd gets a head coaching job like this.

Bob's your Information Minister
11-25-2011, 09:29 PM
I'd love this. It would be proof positive that Pioli is a complete idiot.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-25-2011, 09:31 PM
I'd love this. It would be proof positive that Pioli is a complete idiot.

http://www.chiefsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cassel.jpg

So you can't just go with exhibit A?

broncosteven
11-25-2011, 09:32 PM
Rams offense has stunk. Not sure Mcd gets a head coaching job like this.

He can always go back to calling plays at Canton High.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-25-2011, 09:35 PM
That wily Belichick. He has managed to systematically destroy the Jets, Browns, Broncos, Rams, and Chiefs with Trojan horses. That doesn't even begin to account for the teams destroyed on the field.

broncosteven
11-25-2011, 09:37 PM
That wily Belichick. He has managed to systematically destroy the Jets, Browns, Broncos, Rams, and Chiefs with Trojan horses. That doesn't even begin to account for the teams destroyed on the field.

And he got to tap Bonnie Bernstein!

broncocalijohn
11-25-2011, 09:46 PM
Nothing makes me happier than to see McD fail in St. Louis. Even though he doesn't have the hands on as he did in Denver, he was failing as an offensive guru. I see his next step as a special teams coach...to **** that one up too.
Maybe someday I will wish good fortunes on him so he can get a H.C. job and possibly screw that up to the benefit of the Broncos.

JCMElway
11-25-2011, 10:05 PM
I don't think this will happen. I do think Haley will get canned, though.

And I agree with what was said earlier about how McD got everything he wanted. The Broncos basically gave him keys to the house. The brunt of the bad decisions are his to own. Not that some others aren't complicit, but that's the one good thing about how we handled things; We let him do it his way and he failed so we know it wasn't because he wasn't given a fair shake.

A lot of building a good football team is knowing how to identify and bring in personnel to help you succeed. Josh McDaniels is absolutely terrible at that.

The crux of the whole situation, however, was that he cheated and got caught. If McD had not cheated he would probably still be the Broncos coach right now.

errand
11-25-2011, 10:18 PM
The Patriot Way, minus one of the greatest QB's of all time is retarded. Better?

It's not the system, it's the players.

Actually it is the system... the only true superstar on the team is tom brady. And ironically he didn't win any superbowls when he had superstars like randy moss... they won them with the likes of dion branch and joe who the heck.

HAT
11-26-2011, 12:06 AM
And he got to tap Bonnie Bernstein!

I hate to break it to you Spacey but that is not a good thing.

TomServo
11-26-2011, 01:53 AM
the NFL is like the us congress. once youre in the club, it doesnt matter how incompetent or ineffectual you are, you are welcome back into the club.

errand
11-26-2011, 06:50 AM
I'm sorrry I can't seem to grasp you point here. Name another team who losing thier probowl QB in the first half of the first game that did not suffer a "drop off"? That is if you're wanna call 11-5 a drop off (rolling eyes) Come'on man, we're talking about 11-5 in a division where 11-5 came in second. Second!

Not to mention matt cassel had not started a solitary game since high school when he took over for the injured tom brady

broncocalijohn
11-26-2011, 07:50 AM
The crux of the whole situation, however, was that he cheated and got caught. If McD had not cheated he would probably still be the Broncos coach right now.

Then if that is the reason, glad he cheated and got caught. So much failure yet left us for one major problem. I like tgo think that was the final straw.