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bendog
09-23-2011, 01:13 PM
Tebow looked like **** this offseason and preseason....bottom line

hopefully he can improve next year because he is gonna be behind center

Not unless he's convinced EFX he can get the job done before they start on the draft board.

jhns
09-23-2011, 01:38 PM
Tebow looked like **** this offseason and preseason....bottom line

hopefully he can improve next year because he is gonna be behind center

What? He completed 65% of his passes. According to thedave, he looked like aHOFer this preseason.

He didn't look that bad though. Your love for Orton doesn't let you think clearly.

I just am hoping they at least bring someone in if they don't want to give Tebow a chance. I really do fear our QB situation being the same as the Panthers while Fox was there. He loves him some terrible QB play and Orton provides just that.

DrFate
09-23-2011, 01:39 PM
What? He completed 65% of his passes. According to thedave, he looked like aHOFer this preseason.


The Orton Brigade rarely lets facts get in the way of a good Neckbeard comment!!

bendog
09-23-2011, 01:42 PM
Seriously, nobody but Bridgette and the daughter have much love for Orton in Den.

vancejohnson82
09-23-2011, 01:43 PM
What? He completed 65% of his passes. According to thedave, he looked like aHOFer this preseason.

He didn't look that bad though. Your love for Orton doesn't let you think clearly.

I just am hoping they at least bring someone in if they don't want to give Tebow a chance. I really do fear our QB situation being the same as the Panthers while Fox was there. He loves him some terrible QB play and Orton provides just that.

really? you think he looked comfortable out there this preseason?

he completed 65% of his passes because most of them were dumpoffs with the exception of 3 or 4 deep balls he completed....

honestly, I'm not an Orton guy....I WISH Tebow would have won the job this offseason....BUT HE DIDNT

get over it

jhns
09-23-2011, 01:46 PM
really? you think he looked comfortable out there this preseason?

he completed 65% of his passes because most of them were dumpoffs with the exception of 3 or 4 deep balls he completed....

honestly, I'm not an Orton guy....I WISH Tebow would have won the job this offseason....BUT HE DIDNT

get over it

You think Orton looks comfortable out there?

He completes 65% of his passes because most of them are dump offs with the exception of 3 or 4 deep balls he completed...

You are an Orton guy because you defend his **** play.

No.

vancejohnson82
09-23-2011, 01:51 PM
You think Orton looks comfortable out there?

He completes 65% of his passes because most of them are dump offs with the exception of 3 or 4 deep balls he completed...

You are an Orton guy because you defend his **** play.

No.

Orton knows the playbook better than Tebow...he gets through the reads quicker

Tebow looked lost out there in practice AND in the preseason work he did. He went through a read and then ran, which is great when you are in college.

Whatever, we will see Tebow soon enough and we can all stop the guessing games.

Are there any threads about the Tennessee game this weekend?

jhns
09-23-2011, 01:53 PM
Orton knows the playbook better than Tebow...he gets through the reads quicker

Tebow looked lost out there in practice AND in the preseason work he did. He went through a read and then ran, which is great when you are in college.

Whatever, we will see Tebow soon enough and we can all stop the guessing games.

Are there any threads about the Tennessee game this weekend?

Tebow makes one read and runs. Orton makes one read and gives the defense a free sack. Tebow still wins.

OABB
09-23-2011, 01:56 PM
really? you think he looked comfortable out there this preseason?

he completed 65% of his passes because most of them were dumpoffs with the exception of 3 or 4 deep balls he completed....

honestly, I'm not an Orton guy....I WISH Tebow would have won the job this offseason....BUT HE DIDNT

get over it

If this doesn't explain why the Tebow supporters have gone so bat**** crazy that we are making Crowbar avatars, I don't know what else will.
absolute retardness.

bendog
09-23-2011, 01:59 PM
Orton knows the playbook better than Tebow...he gets through the reads quicker

Tebow looked lost out there in practice AND in the preseason work he did. He went through a read and then ran, which is great when you are in college.

Whatever, we will see Tebow soon enough and we can all stop the guessing games.

Are there any threads about the Tennessee game this weekend?

Who cares since Tebow isn't starting. (-:

Seriously, it's a hard time. A loss helps in the draft and probably helps Tebow starting sooner rather than later

jhns
09-23-2011, 02:00 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0fM8PiJ8ao0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Orton lovers love to make **** up.

I see Tebow making multiple reads. I see him throwing from the pocket. I see him running on designed runs and on plays where the defenders are in his face before he completes his drop. I see him throwing a lot more than short dump offs...

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:06 PM
Tebow looked lost out there in practice AND in the preseason work he did.

Did you attend a lot of practices?

jhns
09-23-2011, 02:09 PM
Did you attend a lot of practices?

No, like most, he went off reporters. The same reporters that started saying this right after the first practice. The first practice in which no one really threw the ball. They sure don't have an agenda though!

Oh, and like most, he also ignored the other half of the reporters that said the negative ones were full of ****. He isn't an Orton guy though. Don't confuse him for one.

Triplelefthook
09-23-2011, 02:10 PM
Whenhe was drafted everyone said he Would be a 3-4 year project.

Sounds like Josh knew what he was doing.

that is the last thing i would say. i would actually say it has been proven quite emphatically that he didn't know what he was doing.

but i think it's fairly clear he intended to sit Tebow throughout this season and last season

Miss I.
09-23-2011, 02:15 PM
If this doesn't explain why the Tebow supporters have gone so bat**** crazy that we are making Crowbar avatars, I don't know what else will.
absolute retardness.

well I definitely agree retardation caused you to create a nasty avatar implying violence against Orton as a solution to the QB issue, but I don't think it's other people's retardation. Own your own ****ed up narcissistic tendencies.

I do not think Orton is the solution, I happen to want to see Tebow on the field, but advocating violent solutions makes you a ****ing ****bag, not a supporter. I find your avatar repugnant and your general need to name call and bait other posters immature and unnecessary.

I may agree with some opinions, but your manner for presenting them leaves a lot to be desired.

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:15 PM
but i think it's fairly clear he intended to sit Tebow throughout this season and last season

On what do you base this comment? The Orton re-up?

Triplelefthook
09-23-2011, 02:19 PM
On what do you base this comment? The Orton re-up?


Because he had Orton signed all the way thru the end of this season and the contract with Tebow heavily based on incentives for him needing to start a majority of the starting snaps this season to hit those incentives. Do you not agree?

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 02:20 PM
well I definitely agree retardation caused you to create a nasty avatar implying violence against Orton as a solution to the QB issue, but I don't think it's other people's retardation. Own your own ****ed up narcissistic tendencies.

I do not think Orton is the solution, I happen to want to see Tebow on the field, but advocating violent solutions makes you a ****ing ****bag, not a supporter. I find your avatar repugnant and your general need to name call and bait other posters immature and unnecessary.

I may agree with some opinions, but your manner for presenting them leaves a lot to be desired.

I agree. That avatar reflects very poorly on the poster who made it and proudly displays it.

Pick Six
09-23-2011, 02:21 PM
If this doesn't explain why the Tebow supporters have gone so bat**** crazy that I am making Crowbar avatars, I don't know what else will.
absolute retardness.

FYP...

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:22 PM
Because he had Orton signed all the way thru the end of this season and the contract with Tebow heavily based on incentives for him needing to start a majority of the starting snaps this season to hit those incentives. Do you not agree?

I can't disagree with your reasoning. It seems like a huge waste of draft picks to spend on a QB who won't see the field until year 3 (unless he was Superman for 10 years after that or something).

But McDaniels didn't put a lot of 'value' into picks based on his use of them...

Drek
09-23-2011, 02:24 PM
On what do you base this comment? The Orton re-up?

Extending Orton, trading for Quinn who had two years left on his deal, his general attitude towards all questions about starting Tebow, etc..

He was completely dismissive when starting Tebow was suggested last year, meaning Tebow never gets his three game trial. Then Orton would be under contract for another season, much like Quinn. It keeps Tebow off the field for his first two seasons to develop step by step. Then in 2012 he gets the QB job unblocked as the veterans who are more familiar with the system have been removed.

Of course it shows McDaniels' arrogance to believe that he wasn't on the hot seat after finishing 2-8 in '09, believing he could implement a three year plan at QB. But it definitely looks like that was what he wanted to set up.

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 02:24 PM
For the record, if the "problem" is: "How to get Tebow on the field", the solution is "better performance by Tebow"; not "injury to Orton".

jhns
09-23-2011, 02:25 PM
well I definitely agree retardation caused you to create a nasty avatar implying violence against Orton as a solution to the QB issue, but I don't think it's other people's retardation. Own your own ****ed up narcissistic tendencies.

I do not think Orton is the solution, I happen to want to see Tebow on the field, but advocating violent solutions makes you a ****ing ****bag, not a supporter. I find your avatar repugnant and your general need to name call and bait other posters immature and unnecessary.

I may agree with some opinions, but your manner for presenting them leaves a lot to be desired.

Just look at it like this: Orton is a very big dude. OABB, with a crowbar, would get beaten so bad that he would need medical care for the rest of his life.

Triplelefthook
09-23-2011, 02:25 PM
I can't disagree with your reasoning. It seems like a huge waste of draft picks to spend on a QB who won't see the field until year 3 (unless he was Superman for 10 years after that or something).

But McDaniels didn't put a lot of 'value' into picks based on his use of them...


I said earlier in this thread i thought it was a criminal misuse of a first round draft pick. I think mr. Mcd was very terrible for this team, people said it from day 1 that he would set the franchise back a decade. not sure that is true (hope) but he has set the team back, for certain.

jhns
09-23-2011, 02:26 PM
For the record, if the "problem" is: "How to get Tebow on the field", the solution is "better performance by Tebow"; not "injury to Orton".

Or a smarter front office.

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:28 PM
Extending Orton, trading for Quinn who had two years left on his deal, his general attitude towards all questions about starting Tebow, etc..

He was completely dismissive when starting Tebow was suggested last year, meaning Tebow never gets his three game trial. Then Orton would be under contract for another season, much like Quinn. It keeps Tebow off the field for his first two seasons to develop step by step. Then in 2012 he gets the QB job unblocked as the veterans who are more familiar with the system have been removed.

Of course it shows McDaniels' arrogance to believe that he wasn't on the hot seat after finishing 2-8 in '09, believing he could implement a three year plan at QB. But it definitely looks like that was what he wanted to set up.

Thanks to you and triplelefthook for some rational discussion. :) This does make sense from McDaniels' perspective (it doesn't explain the behavior of the current FO, of course).

I'm not sure why McDaniels has such low regard for the value of a draft pick (very few teams would spend the capital he did to move up and get a player in round 1 and plan to sit him for 2 years). I wonder if that is some kind of amazing regard for Tebow (developed) or another example of McDaniel's hubris? (or both)

vancejohnson82
09-23-2011, 02:33 PM
No, like most, he went off reporters. The same reporters that started saying this right after the first practice. The first practice in which no one really threw the ball. They sure don't have an agenda though!

Oh, and like most, he also ignored the other half of the reporters that said the negative ones were full of ****. He isn't an Orton guy though. Don't confuse him for one.

reporters and coaches that were at the camps

Jizz, you weren't there either....so this argument is horse****

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 02:33 PM
Or a smarter front office.

No matter how hard one tries to gild that horse cookie, the bottom line is it's on Tebow to convince his coaches that he's ready.

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:34 PM
reporters and coaches that were at the camps

So the answer is 'no' you weren't at practice...

And when you said

Tebow looked lost out there in practice AND in the preseason work he did.

The first part was merely parroting the press and the second was highly debateable

vancejohnson82
09-23-2011, 02:35 PM
So the answer is 'no' you weren't at practice...

nope....but the people who were there that matter decided Tebow wasn't ready

so that's really the "answer"

Drek
09-23-2011, 02:36 PM
Thanks to you and triplelefthook for some rationale discussion. :) This does make sense from McDaniels' perspective (it doesn't explain the behavior of the current FO, of course).

I'm not sure why McDaniels has such low regard for the value of a draft pick (very few teams would spend the capital he did to move up and get a player in round 1 and plan to sit him for 2 years). I wonder if that is some kind of amazing regard for Tebow (developed) or another example of McDaniel's hubris? (or both)

I don't think he had a low value on draft picks, he just made semi-irrational use of them.

Drafting Tebow was a move for the long term. But then he drafts two OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of that year and forces them to start with no veteran depth.

He supposedly wanted to go up and get Raji, but when that failed he suddenly gave up on building the DL in the draft and instead kept trying FA signings.

He moved up and down the board to get where he needed to be for "his" guys. That should be applauded if you are 100% right on your player evaluation. Tebow might still prove McDaniels right. But burning a future 1st because he was sold on Alphonso Smith only to drop him for next to nothing a season later is the hallmark of McDaniels' tenure here. Some worthwhile ideas coupled with poor execution and ultimately complete abandonment of the idea because it didn't bare fruit immediately.

I know the McDaniels haters will come roaring in about how I'm still a McDaniels apologist. But ask yourself this: If McDaniels football moves were so wildly inept why did this new regime choose to keep almost his entire staff and a LARGE portion of his players, including high draft choices now playing key roles?

jhns
09-23-2011, 02:36 PM
reporters and coaches that were at the camps

Jizz, you weren't there either....so this argument is horse****

No coach on this team said that Tebow looked like **** in camp.

Duh, that is why I don't make statements about it. This is why I discuss the live games that he has played so much. The Tebow haters, like you, are the ones making **** up and talking about stuff they couldn't possibly know.

OABB
09-23-2011, 02:36 PM
well I definitely agree retardation caused you to create a nasty avatar implying violence against Orton as a solution to the QB issue, but I don't think it's other people's retardation. Own your own ****ed up narcissistic tendencies.

I do not think Orton is the solution, I happen to want to see Tebow on the field, but advocating violent solutions makes you a ****ing ****bag, not a supporter. I find your avatar repugnant and your general need to name call and bait other posters immature and unnecessary.

I may agree with some opinions, but your manner for presenting them leaves a lot to be desired.

So...do you want to go out?


i mean come on, I feel as though I have been here long enough to at least garner a little benefit of the doubt. Please don't confuse me with punisher or some babbling psycho. You and I have repped each other for years, and now you think I have suddenly gone to proposing violence in a serious way?


Jeez...I'll change the avatar...I liked Galooly better anyhow. Last time I listen to you REV!

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:37 PM
the people who were there that matter decided Tebow wasn't ready


I don't remember the coaches or the front office ever using the terms 'lost' or '****'

jhns
09-23-2011, 02:40 PM
No matter how hard one tries to gild that horse cookie, the bottom line is it's on Tebow to convince his coaches that he's ready.

I would say the opposite. This is the exact reason Hillis was outrushing our backs for another team last season. It would suck to see this repeated with a good QB. I don't think that Elway or Fox have shown signs of giving up on him yet though, just saying.

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:41 PM
I don't think he had a low value on draft picks, he just made semi-irrational use of them.

Tomato, tomato :)

The way he threw picks at players makes me think he didn't assign much value to them (like trading a #1 next for a #2 this yearin the Smith deal)


I know the McDaniels haters will come roaring in about how I'm still a McDaniels apologist. But ask yourself this: If McDaniels football moves were so wildly inept why did this new regime choose to keep almost his entire staff and a LARGE portion of his players, including high draft choices now playing key roles?

I'm not sure which 'high draft choices' to which you are referring. Moreno is a bust. Thomas is a bust. Tebow (to date) is a bust. Ayers is serviceable. The 'key roles' on this team are played by players like Dumerville, Bailey, Miller, Clady, etc. None of which were McDaniel picks.

The Oline players he drafted are pretty terrible - but there simply isn't anyone to replace them. I'm trying to be open minded with your comment - which players that McDaniels drafted do you see as 'playing a key role'?

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 02:43 PM
Thanks to you and triplelefthook for some rational discussion. :) This does make sense from McDaniels' perspective (it doesn't explain the behavior of the current FO, of course).

I'm not sure why McDaniels has such low regard for the value of a draft pick (very few teams would spend the capital he did to move up and get a player in round 1 and plan to sit him for 2 years). I wonder if that is some kind of amazing regard for Tebow (developed) or another example of McDaniel's hubris? (or both)

McDaniels had already shown in his first draft that he didn't properly value draft picks... when he traded a 2010 first rounder to move up in the second round and take A. Smith... and then traded him away for a day-old bologna sandwich less than 2 seasons later.

McDaniels was a dumbass rookie who was in way over his head because of lack of experience... and at the same time was too arrogant to acknowledge it.

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:44 PM
McDaniels had already shown in his first draft that he didn't properly value draft picks... when he traded a 2010 first rounder to move up in the second round and take A. Smith... and then traded him away for a day-old bologna sandwich less than 2 seasons later.

McDaniels was a dumbass rookie who was in way over his head because of lack of experience... and at the same time was too arrogant to acknowledge it.

my thinking exactly ^5

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 02:46 PM
I would say the opposite. This is the exact reason Hillis was outrushing our backs for another team last season. It would suck to see this repeated with a good QB. I don't think that Elway or Fox have shown signs of giving up on him yet though, just saying.

The coaches are giving Tebow time to get ready. This is a huge favor to him, IMHO... it increases his chances of making it in the NFL.

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 02:51 PM
Tomato, tomato :)

The way he threw picks at players makes me think he didn't assign much value to them (like trading a #1 next for a #2 this yearin the Smith deal)




I'm not sure which 'high draft choices' to which you are referring. Moreno is a bust. Thomas is a bust. Tebow (to date) is a bust. Ayers is serviceable. The 'key roles' on this team are played by players like Dumerville, Bailey, Miller, Clady, etc. None of which were McDaniel picks.

The Oline players he drafted are pretty terrible - but there simply isn't anyone to replace them. I'm trying to be open minded with your comment - which players that McDaniels drafted do you see as 'playing a key role'?

My thinking goes along the same lines... the jury's still out (as it should be) on all of McDaniels' draft picks; however, not a single one has "stood out" as a clear "winner" or "good value where they were drafted". It was pretty much a consensus opinion that this year was "make-or-break" for Moreno... and here he is, dinged up (again) 2 games into the new season. While I'm not applying the "bust" label (at least not yet), it's certainly beginning to look like he wasn't worth a #12 overall.

DrFate
09-23-2011, 02:57 PM
It was pretty much a consensus opinion that this year was "make-or-break" for Moreno... and here he is, dinged up (again) 2 games into the new season. While I'm not applying the "bust" label (at least not yet), it's certainly beginning to look like he wasn't worth a #12 overall.

I'd be surprised if:

1) McGahee doesn't outgain Moreno this year
2) Moreno is on the roster next year

Drek
09-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Tomato, tomato :)

The way he threw picks at players makes me think he didn't assign much value to them (like trading a #1 next for a #2 this in the Smith deal)
Its not that he didn't assign much value to them, its that he thought he saw all the steals in every draft class. Like Smith. His immediate comment on Smith after draft him was "we had him ranked as a first rounder, real high up on our board". Would he have given up on a first rounder in only a single season then? If he'd kept Smith here and we now had a good DC who knows DBs like Dennis Allen working with him we might actually have a very good player. One that wouldn't illicit all the complaints about costing us a 1st. Lord knows his 5 picks in only 12 games with Detroit last year would be a welcome addition to the Broncos.

That was the problem. He fell in love with players and pursued them with fervor, but then fell out of love with them just as easily. It wasn't an issue of draft pick value, it was a consistency issue.

I'm not sure which 'high draft choices' to which you are referring. Moreno is a bust. Thomas is a bust. Tebow (to date) is a bust. Ayers is serviceable. The 'key roles' on this team are played by players like Dumerville, Bailey, Miller, Clady, etc. None of which were McDaniel picks.

The Oline players he drafted are pretty terrible - but there simply isn't anyone to replace them. I'm trying to be open minded with your comment - which players that McDaniels drafted do you see as 'playing a key role'?
Moreno is the starting HB when healthy. He's been a productive #1 back for us the last two seasons despite a horrible run scheme and poor OL work. He is nothing remotely close to a bust.

Ayers is a starter on the DL and doing pretty well there despite limited time in the new system. I'd say there is definite room to expect something more beyond his already 'serviceable' play.

Bey Bey showed serious flashes last year despite our exceptional WR depth. How is he a bust when he hasn't even gotten to play in his second year yet?

Tebow is a 2nd year QB. Its suggestions like this (labeling him a bust) that leads people to make asinine comments like "Brian Brohm will beat out Aaron Rogers as the Packers next QB".

The new regime chose to keep Beadles and Walton at OG and C even though they're making a significant overhaul of the OL scheme with Magazu. Furthermore, they didn't even put legitimate camp competition behind them. So either the FO just wants to lose football games or they're real believers in Beadles and Walton maturing given time and better OL coaching.

Eric Decker, our leading receiver last week, was a Josh McDaniels 3rd round pick. David Bruton, our best special teamer and the guy currently rotating in behind Dawkins (not Quinton Carter, this group's own 4th round pick) was a McDaniels 4th round pick.

The only washouts to this point in the first 4 rounds for McDaniels have been Darcel McBath (2nd round), Richard Quinn (2nd round) and Seth Olsen (4th round). Six of McDaniels' twelve 1st-4th round picks are currently significant contributors on this team, and that doesn't include Tebow or Smith, who would likely be a contributor if he was here. Better track record in the early rounds of the draft than the majority of the Shanahan regime.

That also doesn't include guys like Britton Colquitt, Cassius Vaughn, Joe Mays, and Kevin Vickerson who are key role players (two starters) that McDaniels acquired for effectively nothing.

The 2011 Broncos are McDaniels' team and McDaniels' staff with John Fox and Dennis Allen running the show.

Of course this leads to the follow up question: How did this same roster about a month and a half into a complete philosophy change play the Raiders to a 23-20 loss when last year's team got blown the **** out in a laugher despite being a few games into year 2 of the McDaniels era?

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 03:01 PM
I'd be surprised if:

1) McGahee doesn't outgain Moreno this year
2) Moreno is on the roster next year

Sooner or later, teams have to decide if it's worth a roster slot for a player who simply cannot seem to stay healthy.

jhns
09-23-2011, 03:03 PM
The coaches are giving Tebow time to get ready. This is a huge favor to him, IMHO... it increases his chances of making it in the NFL.

You could be right. I still argue for Tebow because I have seen him outperform Orton even though he is extremely raw. It isn't even me thinking Tebow is good, it is more just Orton being that bad. Like I said before, if they really don't like Tebow, I really hope they bring a new guy in. This would actually mean that me and the front office share the same view of the QB situation being terrible. We just don't agree on which player is the best of the terrible.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 03:16 PM
Of course this leads to the follow up question: How did this same roster about a month and a half into a complete philosophy change play the Raiders to a 23-20 loss when last year's team got blown the **** out in a laugher despite being a few games into year 2 of the McDaniels era?

Because McDaniels was a complete failure as both a Coach and GM.

Was that a real question?

Triplelefthook
09-23-2011, 03:21 PM
I don't think he had a low value on draft picks, he just made semi-irrational use of them.

Drafting Tebow was a move for the long term. But then he drafts two OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of that year and forces them to start with no veteran depth.

He supposedly wanted to go up and get Raji, but when that failed he suddenly gave up on building the DL in the draft and instead kept trying FA signings.

He moved up and down the board to get where he needed to be for "his" guys. That should be applauded if you are 100% right on your player evaluation. Tebow might still prove McDaniels right. But burning a future 1st because he was sold on Alphonso Smith only to drop him for next to nothing a season later is the hallmark of McDaniels' tenure here. Some worthwhile ideas coupled with poor execution and ultimately complete abandonment of the idea because it didn't bare fruit immediately.

I know the McDaniels haters will come roaring in about how I'm still a McDaniels apologist. But ask yourself this: If McDaniels football moves were so wildly inept why did this new regime choose to keep almost his entire staff and a LARGE portion of his players, including high draft choices now playing key roles?

But you absolutely are a McDaniels apologist, no?

I think it's hard to argue that McDaniels football moves aren't the exact reason why the Denver Broncos have been 12-20 the last two NFL seasons, and (obviously just for emphasis) 6-20 in the last 26 games.

Moreno has been very disappointing as a RB so far, Thomas for whatever reason has not contributed much, Tebow has so far created a lot more negative than positive (not his fault, but we ALL knew this was coming with the hype that surrounded him and considering hte measures taken to acquire him).

Ayers has been disappointing, blame injury, scheme, or whatever you want McDaniels drafted him and put him in the scheme and he has not been an excellent player (1st round draft choice)

and more specifically last year the offensive line was one of the big problems with the team last year... how is that not 100% related to Josh McDaniels football moves?????

the players he has shipped out and the players he has brought in and drafted for replacements are why this team is in poor shape. Exception - Brandon Lloyd, definitely.

Out of all the players he has drafted I really only see Decker and maybe the Olinemen as significant contributors in the future (if they can develop) and there are still big question marks surrounding those two, imo.

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 03:30 PM
You could be right. I still argue for Tebow because I have seen him outperform Orton even though he is extremely raw. It isn't even me thinking Tebow is good, it is more just Orton being that bad. Like I said before, if they really don't like Tebow, I really hope they bring a new guy in. This would actually mean that me and the front office share the same view of the QB situation being terrible. We just don't agree on which player is the best of the terrible.

I've never been overly enthusiastic about Orton's athletic abilities (he is what he is). However, I am empathetic with the situation he's in and "feel for" the guy 'cause it seems he can't win with certain demographics of Broncos fans (those who wanted Cutler instead in '09 and now those who want him gone... or even injured... to make way for Tebow).

I'm not emotionally invested in any of the QBs associated with the Broncos right now... except #7. He's earned my patience and a whole lot more. JMHO.

Rigs11
09-23-2011, 03:51 PM
so if we lose this weekend because chris johnson runs all over us can we blame orton?

jhns
09-23-2011, 03:54 PM
so if we lose this weekend because chris johnson runs all over us can we blame orton?

Yes. If you don't, you are only proving you are a McFan.

When he makes horrible mistakes and again leads a below average offense, do we get to act like he is playing great?

TheChamp24
09-23-2011, 04:04 PM
blah blah blah a bunch of crap defending McDaniel's awful draft picks

I'm sorry, but can people stop defending those picks?

TailgateNut
09-23-2011, 04:05 PM
so if we lose this weekend because chris johnson runs all over us can we blame orton?


Of course.:yayaya:

Momentum
09-23-2011, 04:27 PM
I'm sorry, but can people stop defending those picks?

Amen! People have to remember as well that Tebow cost us 3 picks (the two traded and the one used to draft him) just AWFUL. That plus Bey over Dez (he was injured when you drafted him and.... STILL INJURED) and NoYards NoGain over Orakpo (consensus top 10 player and plays a position that is STILL a NEED). Then Ayers... Phonz... ahhhh I can go on. Just a terrible draft.

Archer81
09-23-2011, 04:35 PM
Defense of a mediocre QB and crying about an ex headcoach...


seems about right.

:Broncos:

Blueflame
09-23-2011, 04:45 PM
Defense of a mediocre QB and crying about an ex headcoach...


seems about right.

:Broncos:

Patience. We replaced the HC and will soon get around to addressing the crappy QB situation he left in his wake.

errand
09-24-2011, 07:11 AM
BTW, Orton completed 47% of his passes in his last three starts last year.

Orton injured his ribs vs. Rams..it affected his throwing ability I'm sure......

strafen
09-24-2011, 07:31 AM
Orton injured his ribs vs. Rams..it affected his throwing ability I'm sure......How do you know it affected his throwing ability, other than you making apologies for a terrible QB?

Ugly Duck
09-24-2011, 07:55 AM
People have to remember as well that Tebow cost us 3 picks (the two traded and the one used to draft him) just AWFUL.

Didn't you guys trade a 2nd and a 3rd and a 4th to get the 1st you used on Tebow?

ESPN QBR Season Leaders:
9 Jason Campbell 71.3
11 Phillip Rivers 60.9
26 Kyle Orton 35.1
30 Matt Cassel 16.4

TheReverend
09-24-2011, 08:05 AM
Didn't you guys trade a 2nd and a 3rd and a 4th to get the 1st you used on Tebow?

ESPN QBR Season Leaders:
9 Jason Campbell 71.3
11 Phillip Rivers 60.9
26 Kyle Orton 35.1
30 Matt Cassel 16.4

Doesn't that tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about this "metric"?

Dedhed
09-24-2011, 09:01 AM
Orton injured his ribs vs. Rams..it affected his throwing ability I'm sure......

"Orton suffered bruised ribs against the Cardinals on Sunday but stayed in the game, leaving rookie Tim Tebow on the sideline again."

"Denver Broncos QB Kyle Orton (rib) suffered a rib injury in the third quarter of the Week 14 game against the Arizona Cardinals, although he did not miss a snap, reports Gray Caldwell, of DenverBroncos.com.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=686730-broncos-kyle-orton-suffered-rib-injury-in-week-14#ixzz1YslfyxqA"

Nice Try.

TheReverend
09-24-2011, 09:11 AM
"Orton suffered bruised ribs against the Cardinals on Sunday but stayed in the game, leaving rookie Tim Tebow on the sideline again."

"Denver Broncos QB Kyle Orton (rib) suffered a rib injury in the third quarter of the Week 14 game against the Arizona Cardinals, although he did not miss a snap, reports Gray Caldwell, of DenverBroncos.com.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=686730-broncos-kyle-orton-suffered-rib-injury-in-week-14#ixzz1YslfyxqA"

Nice Try.

2/3 of his picks were 1st half in the Cards game, btw

Ugly Duck
09-24-2011, 02:32 PM
9 Jason Campbell 71.3

Doesn't that tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about this "metric"?

Ain't much different from ESPN's usual ol' regular metric:

10 Jason Campbell 99.7

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating/year/2011/seasontype/2

Jason just needed a little stability in his life - he's finally in the same system with the same coaches for more than one season. He should climb higher in the Top Ten, but none of his 1st string receivers suited up last week (including Zach Miller's replacement).

Dedhed
09-25-2011, 08:25 AM
"Yards don't win games, points do," Fox said.

I thought this was a special quote coming from the guy who's chosen to start the messiah of "bid yards, no points."