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TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 09:59 AM
Translation: Orton needs to be carried to wins by those around him.

Strong take.

By a competent defense? That's "being carried"? By a defense that gives up 20 points or less? Which is the league average?

That's "being carried"?

You're neat. Tell me again about how I disappeared when I was right here. Your theories are always so interesting.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 10:01 AM
If this is true, then I have some serious concerns about team management.

You'll recall in the run-up to training camp, it was full speed ahead, Orton on the trading block and Tebow starting. With this roster - loaded with FAs and with three rookies starting, it was the right call. Sink or swim for big Tim, time for some answers.

But 3 to 4 days into camp, a sharp, sudden 180 ... Tebow out, Orton back in. The problem is they simply could NOT have learned anything new in those three days! Everything they needed to know was right there on tape and in discussions with the other players. I can't believe they weren't prepared, can't believe they were surprised. So then why?

The bonus/escalators theory makes some sense. Maybe they couldn't trade Orton's salary, so they wanted to save money.

But my theory goes like this: Tim is an ass-hat and nobody likes him. The new management was barred from speaking with players, so when the guys finally came in, maybe they got an earful. Remember there was some drama surrounding a Vegas trip, Orton and the O-Line vs. Tim. I recall some very strange stuff, personal stuff, fists flying a time or two between players in '84 and '85 when I was there. They're just guys, competitive guys at that.

Or maybe in those 3-4 days, they realized that Tim's footwork and mechanics were still ****ing ****ty, and they thought "uh oh... we're about to trade the only guy who can actually play the QB position at this level."

But sure. I bet it's about money. :D

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 10:05 AM
Or maybe in those 3-4 days, they realized that Tim's footwork and mechanics were still ****ing ****ty, and they thought "uh oh... we're about to trade the only guy who can actually play the QB position at this level."

Please ... all that info was MORE than available to them LONG before camp started. I can't believe John and the coaches were that lazy, that they were shocked at his mechanics, it doesn't make sense.

I'm not saying there's fistfights going on in there, but I sure as hell saw a few, and Tebow's personality and aura are such that guys could resent him. Plus team management couldn't talk to players until camp started ... maybe they got an earful when they arrived.

That's my theory anyway.

bendog
09-21-2011, 10:08 AM
Or maybe in those 3-4 days, they realized that Tim's footwork and mechanics were still ****ing ****ty, and they thought "uh oh... we're about to trade the only guy who can actually play the QB position at this level." :D

too simple. lacks conspiracy theory. I'm thinking something involving Freemasons or the Rothchields.

jhns
09-21-2011, 10:14 AM
Please ... all that info was MORE than available to them LONG before camp started. I can't believe John and the coaches were that lazy, that they were shocked at his mechanics, it doesn't make sense.

I'm not saying there's fistfights going on in there, but I sure as hell saw a few, and Tebow's personality and aura are such that guys could resent him. Plus team management couldn't talk to players until camp started ... maybe they got an earful when they arrived.

That's my theory anyway.

Where do you get 3-4 days into camp? The decision was clearly made before they ever saw him in camp. They named Orton the starter before camp and never held an open competition.

BroncosSR
09-21-2011, 10:16 AM
If he meets those escalators just maybe we would know if we have A FQB. What a novel thought.

I understand that but that means 9 million is holding a clipboard. That's not good.

I personally would rather find out if Tebow is a FQB and if not, move on.

But then again, it's not my money that I'm playing with (at least not directly).

OABB
09-21-2011, 10:17 AM
seeing has how tebow outplayed orton in preseason, the money theory does hold some weight. also orton has allready cost us a game.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 10:18 AM
By a competent defense? That's "being carried"? By a defense that gives up 20 points or less? Which is the league average?

That's "being carried"?

You're neat. Tell me again about how I disappeared when I was right here. Your theories are always so interesting.

The thing you fail to realize in your blind Orton faith, is that he makes it nearly impossible for a defense to be successful.

You can almost count on this every single game. Orton leads the team on a strong opening drive resulting in a field goal, or if we're really lucky a touchdown. Then when the opposing defense adjusts, Orton and the offense tank and go on a dry run of 3 and outs or maybe pick up an occasional first down which disallows the defense to get much of a breather and the field position battle is slowly lost.

Given the sad potency of the offense under Orton, the defense never is allowed to attack a one-dimensional offense because Orton can't put them in that position. Even when the defense, say, pitches a near shutout in the first half of a game the opposing offense still has the luxury of running the ball as much as they want because there are no points on the board to make them feel pressured.

You can complain all you want about the fact that Orton needs support, but its a two way street, and Orton offers no support to the defense at all.

Do you really think it's a coincidence that they best defenses in the NFL also have Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, and Tom Brady on the roster?

In the first two games of this year, the defense has been very competent, but has received no support, through sustained drives or points, that would make an OC revert to a pass only game plan.

bendog
09-21-2011, 10:19 AM
seeing has how tebow outplayed orton in preseason, the money theory does hold some weight. also orton has allready cost us a game.

Ran around like Fran Tarkington with a cannon, he did.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 10:19 AM
too simple. lacks conspiracy theory. I'm thinking something involving Freemasons or the Rothchields.

Now we're talking!

OABB
09-21-2011, 10:20 AM
Ran around like Fran Tarkington with a cannon, he did.

if you dont count the drops, he was more like steve young. I saw three bad throws. thats it.


watch them again.

jhns
09-21-2011, 10:23 AM
if you dont count the drops, he was more like steve young. I saw three bad throws. thats it.


watch them again.

No need to add "again".

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 10:23 AM
I understand that but that means 9 million is holding a clipboard. That's not good.

I personally would rather find out if Tebow is a FQB and if not, move on.

But then again, it's not my money that I'm playing with (at least not directly).
That was clearly the plan until they couldn't get rid of Orton and were stuck with his salary.

There's no issue in paying Tebow's escalators, which I believe amount to $6M+. The issue is that paying them on top of Orton's $9M. The Broncos would be doling out $15M to the position in that case which is apparently a problem.

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 10:26 AM
Where do you get 3-4 days into camp? The decision was clearly made before they ever saw him in camp. They named Orton the starter before camp and never held an open competition.

That's just not the case ... QBs and WRs reported Thursday July 28, full roster Wednesday August 3rd. All this time they were in active trade negotiations with the Dolphins. Dolphins management spoke openly about it, I'm pretty sure they weren't lying.

Adam Schefter broke the news August 3rd: Orton would stay and start.

Couple days after that Tebow went public, "the job was pulled out from under me."

fontaine
09-21-2011, 10:30 AM
Please ... all that info was MORE than available to them LONG before camp started. I can't believe John and the coaches were that lazy, that they were shocked at his mechanics, it doesn't make sense.

I'm not saying there's fistfights going on in there, but I sure as hell saw a few, and Tebow's personality and aura are such that guys could resent him. Plus team management couldn't talk to players until camp started ... maybe they got an earful when they arrived.

That's my theory anyway.

I really don't care about his mechanics/footwork compared to making presnap reads, recognizing disguised coverages, where the pressure is going to come from in a 3-4/4-3 alignment, defensive tendencies from under center as opposed to shotgun.

Hell, I may be completely wrong but Tebow already has a quicker dropback than Orton who drops back on a 5 step drop like a drunken hobo.

As far as I'm concerned if Tebow sits on the bench the entire year but lives in the film room and gets his head around defensive formations, learning the playbook off a new offense and understanding the schemes/packages being installed during the week then it's great progress not just for Tebow but for the team as well.

jhns
09-21-2011, 10:38 AM
That's just not the case ... QBs and WRs reported Thursday July 28, full roster Wednesday August 3rd. All this time they were in active trade negotiations with the Dolphins. Dolphins management spoke openly about it, I'm pretty sure they weren't lying.

Adam Schefter broke the news August 3rd: Orton would stay and start.

Couple days after that Tebow went public, "the job was pulled out from under me."

Then why wouldn't they run Tebow with the unit they planned on playing him with? They may have been trying to trade him but knew it was a slim chance of happening.

bendog
09-21-2011, 10:45 AM
This got me to thinking, what do we really know of this John Fox guy? It's just odd that he and his wife named their first two kids Mark and Matthew, but then went with Cody for the third son. It just seems odd to me.

OABB
09-21-2011, 10:47 AM
This got me to thinking, what do we really know of this John Fox guy? It's just odd that he and his wife named their first two kids Mark and Matthew, but then went with Cody for the third son. It just seems odd to me.

cody numerically spells out "satan."

TheDave
09-21-2011, 10:51 AM
If this is true, then I have some serious concerns about team management.

You'll recall in the run-up to training camp, it was full speed ahead, Orton on the trading block and Tebow starting. With this roster - loaded with FAs and with three rookies starting, it was the right call. Sink or swim for big Tim, time for some answers.

But 3 to 4 days into camp, a sharp, sudden 180 ... Tebow out, Orton back in. The problem is they simply could NOT have learned anything new in those three days! Everything they needed to know was right there on tape and in discussions with the other players. I can't believe they weren't prepared, can't believe they were surprised.

Everyone who saw him at the start of camp was surprised... It was that bad.

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 10:51 AM
Here's your timetable ... Schefter says they were "trying to quell negative feedback" from Tebow Nation. Funny, but I don't think they could've done much worse.


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2139/tebowtimetable.jpg

alkemical
09-21-2011, 10:52 AM
Everyone who saw him at the start of camp was surprised... It was that bad.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dOsbsuhYGQ

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 10:54 AM
Everyone who saw him at the start of camp was surprised... It was that bad.

Surprised? How tf were they surprised?

I realize there was no offseason, but no way was management surprised. If they were, they're incompetent.

TheDave
09-21-2011, 10:57 AM
Surprised? How tf were they surprised?

I realize there was no offseason, but no way was management surprised. If they were, they're incompetent.

No, the problem was that the 2nd year QB showed up and looked incompetent... It probably scared the hell out of them, it did me.

I just don't see how recognizing you just dodged a bullet means you are incompetent?

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 11:05 AM
I just don't see how recognizing you just dodged a bullet means you are incompetent?

Quarterback is your #1 roster decision. The new coaches and management must have - MUST have - screen dozens, perhaps hundreds of hours of Tebow film to plan for the season. They MUST have done this, it's their freaking job.

I suppose I might be clinging to this theory for fear of accepting that these guys didn't do their homework in the offseason. That would be the scariest of all explanations.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 11:06 AM
Quarterback is your #1 roster decision. The new coaches and management must have - MUST have - screen dozens, perhaps hundreds of hours of Tebow film to plan for the season. They MUST have done this, it's their freaking job.

Yes, but not from the off season. When he apparently regressed.

TheDave
09-21-2011, 11:07 AM
Quarterback is your #1 roster decision. The new coaches and management must have - MUST have - screen dozens, perhaps hundreds of hours of Tebow film to plan for the season. They MUST have done this, it's their freaking job.

and from where i stood at the begining of camp he had regressed significantly... can't screen for that.


I tried to explain to anyone who would listen, this was a train wreck to begin camp. I don't have any idea what this kid did in the offseason but it sure didn't translate to his 3 step drops.

zdoor
09-21-2011, 11:09 AM
Yes, but not from the off season. When he apparently regressed.

He almost looked as bad as Orton did against the Raiders...:welcome:

TheDave
09-21-2011, 11:10 AM
He almost looked as bad as Orton did against the Raiders...:welcome:

If camp tebow showed up to play the raiders we would have eclipsed last years beat down.

zdoor
09-21-2011, 11:12 AM
If camp tebow showed up to play the raiders we would have eclipsed last years beat down.

Respect your opinion, but based on last years game where Tebow played them, his pre-season and Orton's 2 performances against them. I disagree...

Edit: Saw where you noted Camp Tebow...

TheDave
09-21-2011, 11:15 AM
Respect your opinion, but based on last years game where Tebow played them, his pre-season and Orton's 2 performances against them. I disagree...

Edit: Saw where you noted Camp Tebow...

and thats all I'm saying... Camp Tebow looked nothing like what we saw last year. There was no way to prepare for this, other than assuming tebow would not improve, and nothing from his past showed that was even a possibility.

This blind-sided everyone

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 11:21 AM
and thats all I'm saying... Camp Tebow looked nothing like what we saw last year. There was no way to prepare for this, other than assuming tebow would not improve, and nothing from his past showed that was even a possibility.

This blind-sided everyone

I suppose that could explain it. I don't recall much reporting to that effect, yourself notwithstanding.

He just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would kick back and waste an offseason ???

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 11:24 AM
If that is the explanation, we should ship him to the Jags for a 5th or 6th rounder. Now. They'd be thrilled to have him.

TheDave
09-21-2011, 11:25 AM
I suppose that could explain it. I don't recall much reporting to that effect, yourself notwithstanding. He doesn't seem like a guy who would just kick back and waste an offseason like that ???

I'm not saying he sat around, but practicing on the farm back home isn't the NFL.

I think he trained, though I do think he spent more time than he should have writing and signing books, I just think he trained the wrong way.

Cardio, lifting, and chasing chickens has its place, but it does not fix your accuracy and timing on a 3 step slant.

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 11:26 AM
Josh is such an offensive (genius), he really is. I can't imagine how he was fooled.

We should ship him down to the Jags, maybe for Paul Posluszny.

If Tebow can't start here and now, on this roster, then when?

zdoor
09-21-2011, 12:06 PM
I'm not saying he sat around, but practicing on the farm back home isn't the NFL.

I think he trained, though I do think he spent more time than he should have writing and signing books, I just think he trained the wrong way.

Cardio, lifting, and chasing chickens has its place, but it does not fix your accuracy and timing on a 3 step slant.

I think he showed improvement through the preseason games. Not sure if that translated to practice but I assume it did. And, I agree, no OTA's and mini camps or coach contact probably hurt Tebow more than most players in the NFL. That said, I think he'll come around and be playing before the end of the year and likely by the mid point. Orton has earned nothing but the chance to begin the season as starter and get his ass pulled at the first sign of suckitude or getting over-taken by either one of the other 2 QB's. His 2 years here have been abysmal...

zdoor
09-21-2011, 12:09 PM
Josh is such an offensive (genius), he really is. I can't imagine how he was fooled.

We should ship him down to the Jags, maybe for Paul Posluszny.

If Tebow can't start here and now, on this roster, then when?

My guess is he either sees the field this year at some point, likely by mid season and he either succeeds or fails. Or, if he doesn't play this year, he never sees the field again as a Bronco...

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 12:12 PM
If Tebow can't start here and now, on this roster, then when?

When the escalators come off the table.

TailgateNut
09-21-2011, 12:15 PM
Yes, but not from the off season. When he apparently regressed.


Maybe it was writers cramp from writing his book and all those autograph for the "eeeek squad".:wiggle:

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 12:21 PM
I think he showed improvement through the preseason games. Not sure if that translated to practice but I assume it did. And, I agree, no OTA's and mini camps or coach contact probably hurt Tebow more than most players in the NFL. That said, I think he'll come around and be playing before the end of the year and likely by the mid point. Orton has earned nothing but the chance to begin the season as starter and get his ass pulled at the first sign of suckitude or getting over-taken by either one of the other 2 QB's. His 2 years here have been abysmal...

Well, I agree, but we've clearly already missed the first sign of suckitude which was week one's abysmal effort and performance.

However you break it down, the staff and FO are making a mistake by giving Orton the job. Whether it's a money issue or not, its a failure. There is no upside to Orton this year, or in the future, and they're missing an opportunity to either develop Tebow or to learn that he never will develop.

What drives me insane about the situation is the people who support Orton by saying he's the better option by weighing the most undeveloped part of Tebow's game against the only thing Orton can do even moderately well; pass from a 3 step drop. They discount all the other positives of Tebow's game, and all the other negatives of Orton's in order to arrive at the immensely marrow minded conclusions.

peacepipe
09-21-2011, 12:23 PM
When the escalators come off the table.

:bs: escalators or not,if the coaches truely believed tebow was the QB to start he would be the starter. This whole conspiracy theory that it's about money is just an excuse for not being able to accept the fact that tebow is not ready or good enough to start.

Popps
09-21-2011, 12:24 PM
and from where i stood at the begining of camp he had regressed significantly... can't screen for that.


I tried to explain to anyone who would listen, this was a train wreck to begin camp. I don't have any idea what this kid did in the offseason but it sure didn't translate to his 3 step drops.

Blasphemy ban, imo. (Perma)

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 12:25 PM
However you break it down, the staff and FO are making a mistake by giving Orton the job. Whether it's a money issue or not, its a failure. There is no upside to Orton this year, or in the future, and they're missing an opportunity to either develop Tebow or to learn that he never will develop.

What drives me insane about the situation is the people who support Orton by saying he's the better option by weighing the most undeveloped part of Tebow's game against the only thing Orton can do even moderately well; pass from a 3 step drop. They discount all the other positives of Tebow's game, and all the other negatives of Orton's in order to arrive at the immensely marrow minded conclusions.

I'll rep that.

But if escalators and money are the problem, why did we pay Champ? Nobody could have blamed us had we traded him, not with this roster.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 12:26 PM
If that is the explanation, we should ship him to the Jags for a 5th or 6th rounder. Now. They'd be thrilled to have him.

Nice attempt at baiting.

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 12:30 PM
Nice attempt at baiting.

No bait here, my friend. If this **** regressed in the off season, ship him out.

Posluszny would fit in perfectly here, and the Jaguars would reap a tidy sum in tickets and gear sold. Win-win.

bendog
09-21-2011, 12:40 PM
I don't know if that's fair. Remember the ghost of Josh put him in in that bogus wildcat or whatever they ran the last three. I admit it was entertaining as all get out, but so are the clowns at the circus. But the writers were all agush over his runnin wild ways, and honestly the team was so beat down by not just losing but having McD's cheatgate and mental games, that Tebow's enthusiasm was refreshing. But, he may have thought he was on cruise control, did his book signing tours, and did cardio for five hours a day.

He's a 24 year old jock who had half of the US gushing over his religious views, was never really been told he has to master a skill set until the NFL came calling, and then he got handed millions of dollars. We can do facepalms, and say WTF was that dumb ass thinking, but his reality might really be "I felt like they pulled the job out from under me."

It was somewhere in the DPO, but the story was Orton figured all along that if there was any actual qb position battle that there was no way Tebow could beat him. Orton's a pro. A mediocre one, but he knows how to play qb in the NFL. Somewhere along the line, Tebow never got the message.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 12:45 PM
:bs: escalators or not,if the coaches truely believed tebow was the QB to start he would be the starter.Truly,the sequence of events makes no sense unless you believe in one of two unproven theories.
A-It's about money.
B-Tim Tebow suddenly completely forgot how to play quarterback.

Judging from the pre-season that was televised, option B just isn't plausible in my opinion.

This whole conspiracy theory that it's about money is just an excuse for not being able to accept the fact that tebow is not ready or good enough to start.Dismissing the money theory is just an excuse for people to believe that Orton stands a chance to become something he's never been, and to ignore the realities that the world is a money driven place.

While I admire your innocence, I can't help but to be more cynical than that.

bendog
09-21-2011, 12:47 PM
Did you know that the US govt sprayed a pesticide all over the pot fields of mexico with a secret plan to kill all the grateful dead fans with lung cancer? It's true.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 12:53 PM
No bait here, my friend. If this **** regressed in the off season, ship him out.

Posluszny would fit in perfectly here, and the Jaguars would reap a tidy sum in tickets and gear sold. Win-win.
Was there anything that you saw in the pre-season, where he posted a 108+ passer rating, that makes you think there's any truth to the assertion that somehow he's become a worse QB?

He didn't develop in an off-season that fairly prohibited it. It's no one's fault but the CBA's. There was simply no opportunity to improve, really. There's really nothing to see here, but as far as the media clowns are concerned, there's always something to see where Tebow is concerned, so it blew up into waht it is today.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 12:56 PM
Did you know that the US govt sprayed a pesticide all over the pot fields of mexico with a secret plan to kill all the grateful dead fans with lung cancer? It's true.
I didn't hear that, but I did hear that they were genetically modifying Springer spaniels to attack and kill their owners in order to reduce the population of people dumb enough to get one.

Isn't it fun to make things personal on the interwebz.

bendog
09-21-2011, 01:22 PM
I didn't hear that, but I did hear that they were genetically modifying Springer spaniels to attack and kill their owners in order to reduce the population of people dumb enough to get one.

Isn't it fun to make things personal on the interwebz.

Reality is a crazy concept.

Pick Six
09-21-2011, 01:30 PM
Like every other QB in the league, save for a handful?

Strong take.

Orton needs a competent defense, a competent offensive line, and a good running game. Period.

FYP. Orton spends half the game just trying to run for his life...

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 01:34 PM
Reality is a crazy concept.That's rich coming from someone refusing to accept the reality of Orton.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 01:37 PM
I don't have any idea what this kid did in the offseason but it sure didn't translate to his 3 step drops.

Again, here's the Orton supporter's debate in a nutshell. Let's choose the 1 criteria where Orton might currently be superior than Tebow, and then call Orton the better football player because we found one tiny piece of evidence to support that claim.

peacepipe
09-21-2011, 01:41 PM
Truly,the sequence of events makes no sense unless you believe in one of two unproven theories.
A-It's about money.
B-Tim Tebow suddenly completely forgot how to play quarterback.
Judging from the pre-season that was televised, option B just isn't plausible in my opinion.

Dismissing the money theory is just an excuse for people to believe that Orton stands a chance to become something he's never been, and to ignore the realities that the world is a money driven place.

While I admire your innocence, I can't help but to be more cynical than that.

Tebow can't forget what he doesn't know. he's still learning the position.

orton is a slightly below avg.-avg. QB at best, I've never claimed orton to be any better than that.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 01:46 PM
Tebow can't forget what he doesn't know. Sigh.
orton is a slightly below avg.-avg. QB at best, I've never claimed orton to be any better than that.

So explain to me the rationale behind how starting a career below average QB, on a below average team, serves the best interest of a franchise.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 01:47 PM
Sigh.


So explain to me the rationale behind how starting a career below average QB, on a below average team, serves the best interest of a franchise.

Explain to me how arguing til you're blue in the face does anything for you, or does anything to change the situation.

OABB
09-21-2011, 01:49 PM
Explain to me how arguing til you're blue in the face does anything for you, or does anything to change the situation.

it doesnt. thats why we should save our energies to boo at the games.

GreatBronco16
09-21-2011, 01:49 PM
Explain to me how arguing til you're blue in the face does anything for you, or does anything to change the situation.

Well that's it. Shut the boards down cause nothing that is said around here will ever change the situation with the Broncos. Might as well just save your money TJ and close it on down.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 01:53 PM
Well that's it. Shut the boards down cause nothing that is said around here will ever change the situation with the Broncos. Might as well just save your money TJ and close it on down.

Ha, okay, how many threads will it take to convince the front office to start a quarterback who isn't ready? Hmmmm...

Better argue it again! Better yet, start a new thread! OOOh, even better, infect a thread that has nothing to do with Tebow with the same tired invective.

jhns
09-21-2011, 01:55 PM
Explain to me how arguing til you're blue in the face does anything for you, or does anything to change the situation.

What does your constant crying do to change anything?

vancejohnson82
09-21-2011, 01:55 PM
it doesnt. thats why we should save our energies to boo at the games.

the most disgusting, classless player on the board

as signified by your posts and avatar

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 01:56 PM
What does your constant crying do to change anything?

Crying?

I'm not the one begging and pleading for someone to play, remember? That's you.

bendog
09-21-2011, 01:57 PM
Ha, okay, how many threads will it take to convince the front office to start a quarterback who isn't ready? Hmmmm...

Better argue it again! Better yet, start a new thread! OOOh, even better, infect a thread that has nothing to do with Tebow with the same tired invective.

It's so annoying that I've gone from neutral on the guy to just wishing they'd put him in and just let the wheels fall totally off. But the other players don't deserve it, and seriously you get a qb in there who does stuff like run to one sideline, turn around and run the other way, cross the line of scrimmage, and then throw the rock .... people are gonna get hurt who normally wouldn't get hurt. I am to the point that I'd like to see him run on Balt

alkemical
09-21-2011, 02:00 PM
It's so annoying that I've gone from neutral on the guy to just wishing they'd put him in and just let the wheels fall totally off. But the other players don't deserve it, and seriously you get a qb in there who does stuff like run to one sideline, turn around and run the other way, cross the line of scrimmage, and then throw the rock .... people are gonna get hurt who normally wouldn't get hurt. I am to the point that I'd like to see him run on Balt

It's sort of ironic, no? That the super-Tebow fans killed our enthusiasm for Tebow.

jhns
09-21-2011, 02:03 PM
Crying?

I'm not the one begging and pleading for someone to play, remember? That's you.

I have begged and pleaded? Who did I beg exactly?

Yes, crying. As always, you are crying about others posts. How many times have people changed the way they post because of your crying? Have the Tebow discussions stopped yet? What posts have you made that have made a difference with anything?

You get dumber by the day.

maher_tyler
09-21-2011, 02:05 PM
Sigh.


So explain to me the rationale behind how starting a career below average QB, on a below average team, serves the best interest of a franchise.

Exactly. Your never going to learn AS much on the sideline as you would in a actual game. It's called OJT (On the Job Training)! How can you correct mistakes if you don't make them?? At what point does practice just become redundant/going through the motions?? Or for the simple fact that Orton won't be with the team next year, we're in a rebuild process..so whats it going to hurt in playing him now??

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 02:05 PM
I have begged and pleaded? Who did I beg exactly?

Yes, crying. As always, you are crying about others posts. How many times have people changed the way they post because of your crying? Have the Tebow discussions stopped yet? What posts have you made that have made a difference with anything?

You get dumber by the day.

Poor fella doesn't even know when he's being mocked openly.

Nobody tell the little hick.

jhns
09-21-2011, 02:07 PM
It's so annoying that I've gone from neutral on the guy to just wishing they'd put him in and just let the wheels fall totally off. But the other players don't deserve it, and seriously you get a qb in there who does stuff like run to one sideline, turn around and run the other way, cross the line of scrimmage, and then throw the rock .... people are gonna get hurt who normally wouldn't get hurt. I am to the point that I'd like to see him run on Balt

A lot more players got hurt with Orton last season than got hurt with Tebow. Tebow also outplayed Orton. Your little theory that he can't play doesn't even make a little bit of sense. You then seem to think Orton can. The guy that has made far dumber mistakes, stil can't work a pocket, and was completely outplayed by a guy you claim can't play. The logic displayed here is just retarded.

bendog
09-21-2011, 02:08 PM
It's sort of ironic, no? That the super-Tebow fans killed our enthusiasm for Tebow.

I'm getting to the pt where I'd like to see Suggs and Ray Ray make an oreo with him.

jhns
09-21-2011, 02:08 PM
Poor fella doesn't even know when he's being mocked openly.

Nobody tell the little hick.

Poor guy is too stupid to get how dumb he is, even when it is pointed out. How sad.

You really don't know what mocked means? Damn you are dumb.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 02:11 PM
Poor guy is too stupid to get how dumb he is, even when it is pointed out. How sad.

You really don't know what mocked means? Damn you are dumb.

ROFL!

GreatBronco16
09-21-2011, 02:15 PM
Ha, okay, how many threads will it take to convince the front office to start a quarterback who isn't ready? Hmmmm...

Jeez I don't know. How many posts are you going to make in said threads to try and get people to stop?

jhns
09-21-2011, 02:15 PM
ROFL!

Still can't figure it out?

TailgateNut
09-21-2011, 02:15 PM
the most disgusting, classless player on the board

as signified by your posts and avatar

Don't worry, he's all bark and no bite. People who don't attend games can boo all they want. OABB, Jhizz, Argentinaman, Alpha Seirra Seirra, and a few others) are performers with no audience.

jhns
09-21-2011, 02:17 PM
Don't worry, he's all bark and no bite. People who don't attend games can boo all they want. OABB, Jhizz, Argentinaman, Alpha Seirra Seirra, and a few others) are performers with no audience.

Why are you so obsessed with me you little homo?

Nevermind, I answered my question in the question.

TailgateNut
09-21-2011, 02:18 PM
It's sort of ironic, no? That the super-Tebow fans killed our enthusiasm for Tebow.


I wasn't enthusiastic from the time I heard he was drafted, but Tebonites make you wish you never heard TimBows name.

Eldorado
09-21-2011, 02:18 PM
Poor fella doesn't even know when he's being mocked openly.

Nobody tell the little hick.


Poor guy is too stupid to get how dumb he is, even when it is pointed out. How sad.

You really don't know what mocked means? Damn you are dumb.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/105/b/a/Slap_Fight_by_Mira_Kajihiko.gif

TheDave
09-21-2011, 03:06 PM
Again, here's the Orton supporter's debate in a nutshell. Let's choose the 1 criteria where Orton might currently be superior than Tebow, and then call Orton the better football player because we found one tiny piece of evidence to support that claim.

1... Hilarious!

Who here said Orton was better in only 1 way?

jhns
09-21-2011, 03:08 PM
1... Hilarious!

Who here said Orton was better in only 1 way?

He isn't better in any way, as proven by on field production.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 03:13 PM
Crying?

I'm not the one begging and pleading for someone to play, remember? That's you.

No, you're the one incessantly bleating that we're okay with Orton.

TheDave
09-21-2011, 03:13 PM
He isn't better in any way, as proven by on field production.

Absolutely, because EFX are willing to commit career suicide just to falsly further KO's career... Hilarious!

maher_tyler
09-21-2011, 03:15 PM
I wasn't enthusiastic from the time I heard he was drafted, but Tebonites make you wish you never heard TimBows name.

I think you are refering to people on this board. The crowd roared when Tebow entered the game i went to in Phoenix. I wasn't thrilled with the pick either (mostly the spot he was selected) but here we are. I'm not sure what the coaching staffs thinking is on Tebow. Whether it be him learning the playbook further, tuning his mechanics etc. Maybe they'd rather Orton get killed out there and saving Tebow from a career ending injury because our oline isn't exactly top notch. It's anyones guess. At the end of the day, Orton will not be with the team this time next year, most likely. Why delay the inevitable??

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 03:16 PM
Explain to me how arguing til you're blue in the face does anything for you, or does anything to change the situation.

Are you pretending you don't know?

jhns
09-21-2011, 03:16 PM
Absolutely, because EFX are willing to commit career suicide just to falsly further KO's career... Hilarious!

This line of thinking makes zero sense after what this franchise has gone through the past two years.

Do you think Orton is better than Cutler? Do you think Moreno is better than Hillis? Etc...

Do you think Xanders, Ellis, and McDaniels were being stupid on purpose?

TheDave
09-21-2011, 03:25 PM
This line of thinking makes zero sense after what this franchise has gone through the past two years.

Do you think Orton is better than Cutler? Do you think Moreno is better than Hillis? Etc...

Do you think Xanders, Ellis, and McDaniels were being stupid on purpose?

This isn't McDaniels... This isn't some 32 year old kid trying like hell to make a name in the league, who was etermined to start a pissing match with everyone taller than him. We have adults running the show now.

Trust me, John Elway isn't going to risk his reputation trying to overthing a simple situation. He's going to play the best player.

jhns
09-21-2011, 03:31 PM
This isn't McDaniels... This isn't some 32 year old kid trying like hell to make a name in the league, who was etermined to start a pissing match with everyone taller than him. We have adults running the show now.

Trust me, John Elway isn't going to risk his reputation trying to overthing a simple situation. He's going to play the best player.

Who says Elway is making the starter decisions? Who says he can even evaluate talent? He is newer to front office work than McDaniels was. I do believe they are doing what they think is right. That said, have you seen the Panthers QB play under Fox? The guy hasn't exactly shown that he knows good QB play.

Ellis and Xanders are also still in the front office and I shouldn't even have to say anything else about them...

I stated a fact. Tebow has outproduced Orton in live games. It worries me that the front office doesn't care about this. It is exactly like the Hillis situation. He got a chance, had great production, then was given up on because the coach outsmarted himself. Now, the given up on part doesn't apply to Tebow, yet.

TailgateNut
09-21-2011, 03:36 PM
I think you are refering to people on this board. The crowd roared when Tebow entered the game i went to in Phoenix. I wasn't thrilled with the pick either (mostly the spot he was selected) but here we are. I'm not sure what the coaching staffs thinking is on Tebow. Whether it be him learning the playbook further, tuning his mechanics etc. Maybe they'd rather Orton get killed out there and saving Tebow from a career ending injury because our oline isn't exactly top notch. It's anyones guess. At the end of the day, Orton will not be with the team this time next year, most likely. Why delay the inevitable??


I am referring to Tebonites on the board and in the stadium.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 03:39 PM
Absolutely, because EFX are willing to commit career suicide just to falsly further KO's career... Hilarious!

Yes, because if we know anything, it's that coaches an FO execs are infallible. They never make moronic decisions unless they want to destroy their careers on purpose.

Do run your logic through your own arguments at any point?

TheDave
09-21-2011, 03:40 PM
Who says Elway is making the starter decisions?

According to his and PB's own words he has final say.


Who says he can even evaluate talent?

He's John Elway... I have faith he knows what a QB looks like

As for the rest, this isn't hillis and McDaniels is no where to be seen. I know it was a rough time but there's no reason to be paranoid. I trust that Elway and Fox know more about what a pro-QB looks like that you or I.

and in the case of Tebow the EFX just happens to agree with me... that always helps.

jhns
09-21-2011, 03:41 PM
Yes, because if we know anything, it's that coaches an FO execs are infallible. They never make moronic decisions unless they want to destroy their careers on purpose.

Do run your logic through your own arguments at any point?

This is called being a McFan.

TheDave
09-21-2011, 03:41 PM
Yes, because if we know anything, it's that coaches an FO execs are infallible. They never make moronic decisions unless they want to destroy their careers on purpose.

Do run your logic through your own arguments at any point?

Your the one looking for a conspiracy... Again, It's the tebow fans that refuse to believe Orton earned the job.

It isn't my logic that is going against reality.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 03:42 PM
This isn't McDaniels... This isn't some 32 year old kid trying like hell to make a name in the league, who was etermined to start a pissing match with everyone taller than him. We have adults running the show now.

Yes. Luckily now we have the man who led his team to the worst record in the league but a year ago.

I'm sure he wanted out though, and did it on purpose.

TheDave
09-21-2011, 03:43 PM
Yes. Luckily now we have the man who led his team to the worst record in the league but a year ago.

I'm sure he wanted out though, and did it on purpose.

???

eddie mac
09-21-2011, 03:44 PM
When the escalators come off the table.

So the Broncos are worried about incentives hitting on a contract that's already paying Tebow nearly $8m to sit on his ass this season???

Doesn't make much sense to me unless you or someone knows the true value of the incentives. Tebow has already been paid an additional $6.2m this season by way of an option bonus kicking in if he was still a Bronco on 2nd September 2011. Surely if the Broncos were worried about paying Tim they would've dealt him prior to that bonus kicking in, infact there were some bull**** rumours flying around that they might cut him to save that bonus. They didn't.

The only piece of literacy I've read on his contractual escalators net wide states the following.

$1,537,500 of the incentives are available through a "likely to be earned" onetime escalator

When you have 2 QB's who nearly earn the same money, I'd say you try to deal one (like we did) and if that doesn't work out you play the best QB in your eyes. They are. End of story.

200 million Bronco fans worldwide may not agree with it but Fox has made a decision that may well cost him his job but at least thus far he's stuck to his guns when the trade for Orton went sour.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 03:45 PM
Your the one looking for a conspiracy... Again, It's the tebow fans that refuse to believe Orton earned the job.

It isn't my logic that is going against reality.

When did he earn it, exactly? Was it when he went 3-10 last year?

jhns
09-21-2011, 03:45 PM
According to his and PB's own words he has final say.




He's John Elway... I have faith he knows what a QB looks like

As for the rest, this isn't hillis and McDaniels is no where to be seen. I know it was a rough time but there's no reason to be paranoid. I trust that Elway and Fox know more about what a pro-QB looks like that you or I.

and in the case of Tebow the EFX just happens to agree with me... that always helps.

I thought that was just on personnel? Did they say he will also pick who starts? If so, I just got even more worried. Does any successful organization let anyone other than coaches pick starters?

Tebow outproduced Orton, by a lot, in live games. McDaniels made me see that the front office can be retarded. I will trust the facts from now on.

jhns
09-21-2011, 03:48 PM
Your the one looking for a conspiracy... Again, It's the tebow fans that refuse to believe Orton earned the job.

It isn't my logic that is going against reality.

EFX and you are going against reality. Tebow outproduced Orton by a lot in live games. From this, Orton was named starter before any competition. That is reality and it doesn't make sense. Can you name a single time this has ever happened and was good for that team?

Eldorado
09-21-2011, 04:02 PM
EFX and you are going against reality. Tebow outproduced Orton by a lot in live games. From this, Orton was named starter before any competition. That is reality and it doesn't make sense. Can you name a single time this has ever happened and was good for that team?

Serious question, what do you think happens to the play book when Tebow is in? Cut in half? Down to a third? Not affected?

TheDave
09-21-2011, 04:10 PM
EFX and you are going against reality. Tebow outproduced Orton by a lot in live games. From this, Orton was named starter before any competition. That is reality and it doesn't make sense. Can you name a single time this has ever happened and was good for that team?

and then showed up to camp looking like he had never taken a snap under center... Unfortunately, that doesn't leave the team much of a choice.

Try this... show up to your job looking and acting like you have no idea what you are doing. When your manager shows up to replace you with someone more effective, tell him/her that they shouldn't, because you had a good couple of weeks last year.

Let me know how that works out.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 04:22 PM
So the Broncos are worried about incentives hitting on a contract that's already paying Tebow nearly $8m to sit on his ass this season???

Doesn't make much sense to me unless you or someone knows the true value of the incentives. Tebow has already been paid an additional $6.2m this season by way of an option bonus kicking in if he was still a Bronco on 2nd September 2011. Surely if the Broncos were worried about paying Tim they would've dealt him prior to that bonus kicking in, infact there were some bull**** rumours flying around that they might cut him to save that bonus. They didn't.

The only piece of literacy I've read on his contractual escalators net wide states the following.

$1,537,500 of the incentives are available through a "likely to be earned" onetime escalator

When you have 2 QB's who nearly earn the same money, I'd say you try to deal one (like we did) and if that doesn't work out you play the best QB in your eyes. They are. End of story.

200 million Bronco fans worldwide may not agree with it but Fox has made a decision that may well cost him his job but at least thus far he's stuck to his guns when the trade for Orton went sour.
**UPDATE**Tebow deal reportedly worth $11.25 million over five years, but can escalade to $33 million with specific incentives and accomplishments.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 04:27 PM
Serious question, what do you think happens to the play book when Tebow is in? Cut in half? Down to a third? Not affected?

I think it turns into a playbook that produces 25ppg instead of 20ppg. Of course, that's only based on measurable facts.

zdoor
09-21-2011, 04:46 PM
ROFL!ROFL!ROFL!ROFL!ROFL!http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/105/b/a/Slap_Fight_by_Mira_Kajihiko.gif

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-21-2011, 04:48 PM
I think it turns into a playbook that produces 25ppg instead of 20ppg. Of course, that's only based on measurable facts.

Shame that's not what he asked.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 04:52 PM
Shame that's not what he asked.

Umm...Yes it is. You just can't stand to look at the reality of the answer.

OABB
09-21-2011, 04:55 PM
the playbook opens up. as well as running lanes.

fontaine
09-21-2011, 04:55 PM
Instead of blaming Elway, Fox, Orton, Tebow's religious values, the incentives in his contract that people constantly speculate about. . . . why not just blame Tebow?

Yes, it sucks that we have a limited QB who plays not to lose in Orton, but really, is it too much to expect from a young QB to get the Center exchange right? To be able to work from under center instead of the shotgun, to just show enough in practices to be sharp on the very basics?

Hell, Quinn and Orton can do it, why not Tebow?

If any other QB looked as raw as Tebow, he would have been released by now and the only thing saving him is his draft status.

I believe Tebow will go on to be a pretty good QB in this league, but right now he deserves the a$$ kicking he got via his demotion. You don't get handed anything in this league that can't be taken back if you don't work hard to hang on to it.

Tebow had his chance to impress in the offseason, he failed badly by any count and from all accounts.

Let's see how his famous work ethic and determination bounce him back right? I know I'm rooting for him but, please give us something to show any improvement so that he actually wins the job instead of Orton losing it.

That's not too much to ask.

TailgateNut
09-21-2011, 05:05 PM
Umm...Yes it is. You just can't stand to look at the reality of the answer.

Reality? Reality is that you,Jhizz on face and QABB are jilted lovers, who just don't get things your way, so you ****ing whine about the same **** over and over and over. Your BOY sucks, just like you do.

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 05:26 PM
Was there anything that you saw in the pre-season that makes you think there's any truth to the assertion that somehow he's become a worse QB?
No, I disagree with ElusiveKyle and TheDave, nothing seemed different to me. TheDave was at practices though, I suppose he's seeing more than we are.


He didn't develop in an off-season that fairly prohibited it. It's no one's fault but the CBA's. There was simply no opportunity to improve, really.
With a post like that, it's obvious you're a long way down the road toward Tebow Apologist Town.

No opportunities? The off-season prohibited development?!

There were TONS of opportunities to develop, and establish himself as a team leader at the same time. The kid is obviously a god in Gainesville, rustle up a couple coaches, get on the horn to Eric Decker, Eddie Royal, Knowshon, Demaryious, everybody, and get 'em down there. Pay their way, become the leader. He could work them out by day, and show them the town at night. For the other guys, Tebow's peculiar form of goody-goody would become tolerable, even likable in that setting.

When the guys leave, hire the best QB coach available and spend some serious time on your mechanics and footwork!!!

It's not rocket science.

TonyR
09-21-2011, 05:27 PM
I think it turns into a playbook that produces 25ppg instead of 20ppg. Of course, that's only based on measurable facts.

I'm all for Tebow playing now but you need to get off your constant claim that the Tebow offense's performance in 3 meaningless football games proves anything all that definitive.

OABB
09-21-2011, 05:38 PM
Reality? Reality is that you,Jhizz on face and QABB are jilted lovers, who just don't get you way, so you ****ing whine about the same **** over and over and over. Your BOY sucks just like you do.

my eyes are crossed from trying to read your posts.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 05:49 PM
I'm all for Tebow playing now but you need to get off your constant claim that the Tebow offense's performance in 3 meaningless football games proves anything all that definitive.

It proves that they weren't meaningless to Tebow, at least. And, if they were meaningless games it makes Tebow's effort all the more impressive. After all, if the games were meaningless to the other teams, they must have been even more meaningless to the Broncos.

TheDave
09-21-2011, 05:52 PM
It proves that they weren't meaningless to Tebow, at least. And, if they were meaningless games it makes Tebow's effort all the more impressive. After all, if the games were meaningless to the other teams, they must have been even more meaningless to the Broncos.

Amen, says every scrub playing all out in a meaningless preseason game... We shouldn't cut anyone as long as they try real hard.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 06:06 PM
No, I disagree with ElusiveKyle and TheDave, nothing seemed different to me. TheDave was at practices though, I suppose he's seeing more than we are.
I'll trust my own eyes, and there was zero evidence to support Tebow having "regressed". I don't doubt that he was rusty in the first days of camp.


With a post like that, it's obvious you're a long way down the road toward Tebow Apologist Town.

No opportunities? The off-season prohibited development?! I'm not a Tebow apologist at all. I'm just as motivated to see him fail as I am to see him succeed. I want to know if we have a QB. If we don't, I want to go get one. If we do, I don't want to waste a high pick on one.

There were TONS of opportunities to develop, and establish himself as a team leader at the same time.There's a difficult, and fine, line there. If he goes full cannon to rally the troops, he's accused of being the eager beaver that folks around here have accused him of being without any evidence.

When I say he was denied the opportunity to improve, I mean only in regards to the new regime. I have zero doubt that he worked his butt off as best as he knew how. The opportunity he missed was getting first hand specifics on what the new coaches wanted to see from him. There's a big difference.


The kid is obviously a god in Gainesville, rustle up a couple coaches, get on the horn to Eric Decker, Eddie Royal, Knowshon, Demaryious, everybody, and get 'em down there. Pay their way, become the leader. He could work them out by day, and show them the town at night. For the other guys, Tebow's peculiar form of goody-goody would become tolerable, even likable in that setting. This highlights my above point. The coaches you reference are the same ones who he spent 4 years with and put him in a position where he needed a QB makeover heading into the draft.

When the guys leave, hire the best QB coach available and spend some serious time on your mechanics and footwork!!!

It's not rocket science.
It may not be rocket science, but without the interaction with the staff, he couldn't have any idea what they were looking for specifically.

I think his footwork looked better. Watch film of where there is some semblance of a pocket, and his 5 and 7 step drops look much improved. His depth is better, and he strides more directly into his target. His 3 step drops are still very rough; not something that would concern me if only if he wasn't a 2nd year guy coming from the spread offense.

He's never going to be a drop back guy in the Manning mold, but, imo, he could turn Ben Roethlisberger into a poor man's Tim Tebow if everything I've already seen continues to develop.

Tombstone RJ
09-21-2011, 06:50 PM
No, I disagree with ElusiveKyle and TheDave, nothing seemed different to me. TheDave was at practices though, I suppose he's seeing more than we are.



With a post like that, it's obvious you're a long way down the road toward Tebow Apologist Town.

No opportunities? The off-season prohibited development?!

There were TONS of opportunities to develop, and establish himself as a team leader at the same time. The kid is obviously a god in Gainesville, rustle up a couple coaches, get on the horn to Eric Decker, Eddie Royal, Knowshon, Demaryious, everybody, and get 'em down there. Pay their way, become the leader. He could work them out by day, and show them the town at night. For the other guys, Tebow's peculiar form of goody-goody would become tolerable, even likable in that setting.

When the guys leave, hire the best QB coach available and spend some serious time on your mechanics and footwork!!!

It's not rocket science.

not sure what your point is other than that if Tebow can't work with the new coaching staff to learn the playbook then just tossing a ball around to other team members doesn't help him learn the new system.

Tebow had no offseason to learn the new offense. period. he had no ability to learn the new terminology nor the new playbook.

BroncoBuff
09-21-2011, 06:59 PM
not sure what your point is other than that if Tebow can't work with the new coaching staff to learn the playbook then just tossing a ball around to other team members doesn't help him learn the new system.

Tebow had no offseason to learn the new offense. period. he had no ability to learn the new terminology nor the new playbook.

STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT!

The problem is not learning the new offense, it's polishing footwork and mechanics. According to OMCW anyway.

Agamemnon
09-21-2011, 07:17 PM
Instead of blaming Elway, Fox, Orton, Tebow's religious values, the incentives in his contract that people constantly speculate about. . . . why not just blame Tebow?

Yes, it sucks that we have a limited QB who plays not to lose in Orton, but really, is it too much to expect from a young QB to get the Center exchange right? To be able to work from under center instead of the shotgun, to just show enough in practices to be sharp on the very basics?

Hell, Quinn and Orton can do it, why not Tebow?

If any other QB looked as raw as Tebow, he would have been released by now and the only thing saving him is his draft status.

I believe Tebow will go on to be a pretty good QB in this league, but right now he deserves the a$$ kicking he got via his demotion. You don't get handed anything in this league that can't be taken back if you don't work hard to hang on to it.

Tebow had his chance to impress in the offseason, he failed badly by any count and from all accounts.

Let's see how his famous work ethic and determination bounce him back right? I know I'm rooting for him but, please give us something to show any improvement so that he actually wins the job instead of Orton losing it.

That's not too much to ask.

Blame Tebow that the Broncos are too cheap to pay Orton his contract and him his escalators? Okay...

By the way the guy played well in preseason. Not sure what else he can show you.

Agamemnon
09-21-2011, 07:18 PM
I'm not a Tebow apologist at all. I'm just as motivated to see him fail as I am to see him succeed. I want to know if we have a QB. If we don't, I want to go get one. If we do, I don't want to waste a high pick on one.


This one rational statement means you are a Tebow fan, not a Bronco fan. You should know that. ;)

GreatBronco16
09-21-2011, 07:21 PM
STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT!

The problem is not learning the new offense, it's polishing footwork and mechanics. According to OMCW anyway.

It might just be me, but throughout the preseason, I thought he got better and better at his machanics.

Take a look at the TD throw he had against arizona. 5 step drop I think it was, stood there with a pocket, scanned through 3 progressions, and hit his third for a nice TD throw. The more actual playing time he gets, the better he gets. Sitting the bench does not make him better, it makes him worse IMO.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 07:31 PM
Amen, says every scrub playing all out in a meaningless preseason game... We shouldn't cut anyone as long as they try real hard.
I think what you mean to say is that we shouldn't cut anyone who both tries real hard and is more effective than the guy ahead of him on the depth chart.

vancejohnson82
09-21-2011, 07:32 PM
Blame Tebow that the Broncos are too cheap to pay Orton his contract and him his escalators? Okay...

By the way the guy played well in preseason. Not sure what else he can show you.

yea....he lit it up in pre-season

all those screens really got me an erection....

"plus he played against third string"

Garcia Bronco
09-21-2011, 07:35 PM
not sure what your point is other than that if Tebow can't work with the new coaching staff to learn the playbook then just tossing a ball around to other team members doesn't help him learn the new system.

Tebow had no offseason to learn the new offense. period. he had no ability to learn the new terminology nor the new playbook.

It's the same offense from the prior year

TheDave
09-21-2011, 07:36 PM
I think what you mean to say is that we shouldn't cut anyone who both tries real hard and is more effective than the guy ahead of him on the depth chart.

Like I said before...



Try this... show up to your job looking and acting like you have no idea what you are doing. When your manager shows up to replace you with someone more effective, tell him/her that they shouldn't, because you had a couple of good weeks last year.

Let me know how that works...

TailgateNut
09-21-2011, 08:00 PM
not sure what your point is other than that if Tebow can't work with the new coaching staff to learn the playbook then just tossing a ball around to other team members doesn't help him learn the new system.

Tebow had no offseason to learn the new offense. period. he had no ability to learn the new terminology nor the new playbook.


Like "football", "Teamwork", "Receivers"



......and I guess the others snuck into Dove Valley during off-season and your boy was locked out....

eddie mac
09-21-2011, 08:01 PM
**UPDATE**Tebow deal reportedly worth $11.25 million over five years, but can escalade to $33 million with specific incentives and accomplishments.

Of which $6.2m was the option bonus (already paid) and $9m of incentives will never be reached, which leaves you a paltry $6m.

If that's the case it is not about money and never was.

The man is making $8m this season. If he was good enough in the coaching staff's eyes he would be starting. It has nothing to do with escalators.

maher_tyler
09-21-2011, 08:03 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d821e7271/Tebow-a-lone-bright-spot-for-Broncos

Looked like he still needs a little work. Obviously this is one game in the preseason. Looked like there were times where he felt like the pocket was collapsing but really wasn't. Made some plays with his feet Orton couldn't do in his dreams. Saw at least one play in this highlight where Orton would have undoubtedly been sacked.

eddie mac
09-21-2011, 08:07 PM
Blame Tebow that the Broncos are too cheap to pay Orton his contract and him his escalators? Okay...

By the way the guy played well in preseason. Not sure what else he can show you.

Both players combined are already raking in $17m this season, without throwing a pass. If Tebow went 17-0 from here on out, won the superbowl, throwing for 700 yards in the process whilst he turned Bowlen into a pillar of salt at half-time, the additional money he makes still wouldn't account for not playing him. This money issue is a total myth.

Who the **** in their right mind sits a player incase he makes more money after paying him an additional $6.2m just before the season started, if they had no intention of letting him compete???

vancejohnson82
09-21-2011, 08:07 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d821e7271/Tebow-a-lone-bright-spot-for-Broncos

Looked like he still needs a little work. Obviously this is one game in the preseason. Looked like there were times where he felt like the pocket was collapsing but really wasn't. Made some plays with his feet Orton couldn't do in his dreams. Saw at least one play in this highlight where Orton would have undoubtedly been sacked.

please don't use actual visual evidence of his reads and mechanics

refer to his QB rating and intangibles

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Of which $6.2m was the option bonus (already paid) and $9m of incentives will never be reached, which leaves you a paltry $6m.

If that's the case it is not about money and never was.

The man is making $8m this season. If he was good enough in the coaching staff's eyes he would be starting. It has nothing to do with escalators.You can make that assumption, but for the people writing the checks it may make a significant difference when that $6M lands on the books; if it does at all.

vancejohnson82
09-21-2011, 08:35 PM
You can make that assumption, but for the people writing the checks it may make a significant difference when that $6M lands on the books; if it does at all.

(yawn)

move onto your next excuse..

this team could make much more money starting Tebow

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 08:41 PM
please don't use actual visual evidence of his reads and mechanics

refer to his QB rating and intangiblesI'm sure you noticed that the title of that video was "Tebow a lone bright spot for Broncos".

Tebow has the ability to play above his supporting cast. Something that was clear to anyone who watched that game.

Orton does not have that ability, and never will.

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 08:41 PM
(yawn)

move onto your next excuse..

this team could make much more money starting Tebow
My excuse for what?

vancejohnson82
09-21-2011, 08:49 PM
My excuse for what?

the excuse for why he isn't seeing the field

Dedhed
09-21-2011, 08:52 PM
the excuse for why he isn't seeing the field
I'm not making any excuses. I'm asserting my opinion that the coaching staff and FO are making a huge mistake by playing Orton.

Tombstone RJ
09-21-2011, 09:04 PM
It's the same offense from the prior year

you sure about that brosef? I'm pretty sure it's not a spread offense...

Tombstone RJ
09-21-2011, 09:06 PM
Like "football", "Teamwork", "Receivers"



......and I guess the others snuck into Dove Valley during off-season and your boy was locked out....

spoken like a true moron. different play terminology is like a different vocabulary for calling plays. If you don't know the vocab you can't understand the plays... even if the plays are the same the terminology is different so yah, you kinda have to know this stuff in order to understand what plays the coaches are calling...

GreatBronco16
09-21-2011, 09:09 PM
please don't use actual visual evidence of his reads and mechanics

refer to his QB rating and intangibles

That video actually proves my point about how he is getting better. Even when they brought a blitz, he was able to work the pocket and get the throw off.

Yeah yeah against third stringers.......but playing with third stringers too.

TailgateNut
09-21-2011, 09:14 PM
spoken like a true moron. different play terminology is like a different vocabulary for calling plays. If you don't know the vocab you can't understand the plays... even if the plays are the same the terminology is different so yah, you kinda have to know this stuff in order to understand what plays the coaches are calling...


and this change was only made to TimBoys playbook?

It's a conspiracy. The other players must have recieved to "dumbed down version" and poor TimBow recieved the "pro-version".

****ing idiot. The rest of the team had all the same opportunity as your man-crush who was too damn busy admiring himself.

TailgateNut
09-21-2011, 09:17 PM
That video actually proves my point about how he is getting better. Even when they brought a blitz, he was able to work the pocket and get the throw off.

Yeah yeah against third stringers.......but playing with third stringers too.


Tell ya what. When we face a team which is so decimated with injuries that they have to resort to putting in their 3rd string, I'll ask Fox start Timboy.

jhns
09-21-2011, 09:20 PM
and then showed up to camp looking like he had never taken a snap under center... Unfortunately, that doesn't leave the team much of a choice.

Try this... show up to your job looking and acting like you have no idea what you are doing. When your manager shows up to replace you with someone more effective, tell him/her that they shouldn't, because you had a good couple of weeks last year.

Let me know how that works out.

Orton isn't more effective. That is the point...

If you had a below average performance from an employee for two, going on three, years and another employee did much better work, which would you go with.

I don't see the argument for Orton. We have not had even an average offense since he showed up. Tebow gave us a top ten offense. Why would you not even give him a chance to see if it continued? How does Orton, and his leading a complete **** offense, give this team a good chance to win?

jhns
09-21-2011, 09:21 PM
Serious question, what do you think happens to the play book when Tebow is in? Cut in half? Down to a third? Not affected?

What do you think we did with Plummer? What do you think we did when Tebow completely outplayed Orton last season?

I don't care if we only run 3 plays. If it produces more points, it is better for the team.

Meck77
09-21-2011, 09:22 PM
Ah the good ole memories of the mane I once had. There was a great spirit to the community around (2004, 2005, 2006) or so. These days....Well carry on folks. Trash on one another, hate on one another, have fun with that. Hopefully one of you will win.

Punisher
09-21-2011, 09:24 PM
Wait a sec doesn't Orton play for the Bears?

errand
09-22-2011, 12:41 AM
spoken like a true moron. different play terminology is like a different vocabulary for calling plays. If you don't know the vocab you can't understand the plays... even if the plays are the same the terminology is different so yah, you kinda have to know this stuff in order to understand what plays the coaches are calling...

So you're saying it is a learning issue along with a mechanical issue?

I honestly just believe that tim tebow is not ready to take over as our starting quarterback yet.... I know a lot of people think we gotta let him play for him to develop..... but evidently that's not the same philosophy that john fox and john elway have.

Tombstone RJ
09-22-2011, 01:23 PM
and this change was only made to TimBoys playbook?

It's a conspiracy. The other players must have recieved to "dumbed down version" and poor TimBow recieved the "pro-version".

****ing idiot. The rest of the team had all the same opportunity as your man-crush who was too damn busy admiring himself.

here's something I know you are trying not to understand. Tebow went to a college called Florida that ran the "spread offense" and that is what he played for his entire career. then he got drafted by McD that ran basically the exact same type of "spread offense" so he knew all the terminology and could basically plug and play.

now he's in a more traditional pro-style offense and he has absolutely no experience in this type of offense. While Orton (get this bro--A 7 YEAR NFL VET) and Quinn (A 5 YEAR NFL VET) have been around the block a few more times than Tebow, Tebow still can beat them out this year if the front office will let him play.

now I know you know this bro. Try putting away the crack pipe.

bendog
09-22-2011, 01:35 PM
McD and the Patriots do NOT run the same offense as Urban Meyer. The qb is under center on run or neutral downs. Tebow didn't play under center. Moreover, the reads are not the same. The similarity is that NE will go 4wr to force 5 (or 6) dback. NE runs the tailback from this set ... with the qb under center. The dpo clearly quoted Elway as saying that Tebow had to take snaps under center, and cosistently make the same drops ... and the reads.

I do think he made progress, and for all I know he continues to do so. EFX don't want to run Urban Meyers scheme (and neither does any other nfl team) and they want the qb to be able to execute both under center and in the shotgun

McD DID NOT WANT TO START TEBOW because he wasn't ready. Den ran essentially something similar to Meyer in the last three. Looked a bit like Arkansas wildcate too, to me. If you think that will get it done in the NFL ... it's a free country

jhns
09-22-2011, 01:42 PM
McD and the Patriots do NOT run the same offense as Urban Meyer. The qb is under center on run or neutral downs. Tebow didn't play under center. Moreover, the reads are not the same. The similarity is that NE will go 4wr to force 5 (or 6) dback. NE runs the tailback from this set ... with the qb under center. The dpo clearly quoted Elway as saying that Tebow had to take snaps under center, and cosistently make the same drops ... and the reads.

I do think he made progress, and for all I know he continues to do so. EFX don't want to run Urban Meyers scheme (and neither does any other nfl team) and they want the qb to be able to execute both under center and in the shotgun

McD DID NOT WANT TO START TEBOW because he wasn't ready. Den ran essentially something similar to Meyer in the last three. Looked a bit like Arkansas wildcate too, to me. If you think that will get it done in the NFL ... it's a free country

If we think it will get it done? Wtf? He scored 25 ppg... You think Orton is getting it done when he averaged the 22nd best offense compared to Tebow running the seventh best. I'm sure you will say something that makes sense someday...

Tombstone RJ
09-22-2011, 01:44 PM
McD and the Patriots do NOT run the same offense as Urban Meyer. The qb is under center on run or neutral downs. Tebow didn't play under center. Moreover, the reads are not the same. The similarity is that NE will go 4wr to force 5 (or 6) dback. NE runs the tailback from this set ... with the qb under center. The dpo clearly quoted Elway as saying that Tebow had to take snaps under center, and cosistently make the same drops ... and the reads.

I do think he made progress, and for all I know he continues to do so. EFX don't want to run Urban Meyers scheme (and neither does any other nfl team) and they want the qb to be able to execute both under center and in the shotgun

McD DID NOT WANT TO START TEBOW because he wasn't ready. Den ran essentially something similar to Meyer in the last three. Looked a bit like Arkansas wildcate too, to me. If you think that will get it done in the NFL ... it's a free country

McD absolutely based his spread offense on Florida's spread offense.

TheReverend
09-22-2011, 01:48 PM
Ah the good ole memories of the mane I once had. There was a great spirit to the community around (2004, 2005, 2006) or so. These days....Well carry on folks. Trash on one another, hate on one another, have fun with that. Hopefully one of you will win.

Must have nothing to do with winning. Just a massive coincidence timing wise.

TailgateNut
09-22-2011, 01:54 PM
here's something I know you are trying not to understand. Tebow went to a college called Florida that ran the "spread offense" and that is what he played for his entire career. then he got drafted by McD that ran basically the exact same type of "spread offense" so he knew all the terminology and could basically plug and play.

now he's in a more traditional pro-style offense and he has absolutely no experience in this type of offense. While Orton (get this bro--A 7 YEAR NFL VET) and Quinn (A 5 YEAR NFL VET) have been around the block a few more times than Tebow, Tebow still can beat them out this year if the front office will let him play.

now I know you know this bro. Try putting away the crack pipe.


1. I'm not your "bro".
2. Playing in college isn't a "career".
3. Thinking that he can "beat anyone at this point is "wishful thinking" on your and his part.
4. I don't do crack.

TheDave
09-22-2011, 01:57 PM
Must have nothing to do with winning. Just a massive coincidence timing wise.

Careful he might go all Meck77 circa 2009-2010 and pull your fan card. ;D

jhns
09-22-2011, 02:06 PM
1. I'm not your "bro".
2. Playing in college isn't a "career".
3. Thinking that he can "beat anyone at this point is "wishful thinking" on your and his part.
4. I don't do crack.

Yeah, it is obvious that he is just this stupid without the help of drugs.

Tombstone RJ
09-22-2011, 02:10 PM
1. I'm not your "bro".
2. Playing in college isn't a "career".
3. Thinking that he can "beat anyone at this point is "wishful thinking" on your and his part.
4. I don't do crack.

you sure bro?

oubronco
09-22-2011, 02:33 PM
Tebow

vancejohnson82
09-22-2011, 02:36 PM
If we think it will get it done? Wtf? He scored 25 ppg... You think Orton is getting it done when he averaged the 22nd best offense compared to Tebow running the seventh best. I'm sure you will say something that makes sense someday...

he scored about 2 ppg more than Orton on a three game trial period

i guess that translates to what? 10 to 12 more wins?

jhns
09-22-2011, 02:41 PM
he scored about 2 ppg more than Orton on a three game trial period

i guess that translates to what? 10 to 12 more wins?

What? That is not at all correct.

I'm sure there is no difference between the seventh and 22nd ranked offenses. I mean, I just don't see how scoring more points would help a football team!

At 25 ppg, we win week one.

Btw, 20.69 ppg vs 25 ppg...

Dedhed
09-22-2011, 03:29 PM
he scored about 2 ppg more than Orton on a three game trial period


Try 5 points per game. And was far better than that when it comes to common opponents.

oubronco
09-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Tebow

jhns
09-22-2011, 03:36 PM
Tebow

You finally say something smart.

zdoor
09-22-2011, 03:54 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=capress-fbn_tebow_multitasks-9147024

Dedhed
09-22-2011, 04:35 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=capress-fbn_tebow_multitasks-9147024

Stopped reading when they called him 3rd string.

TheChosen15One
09-22-2011, 06:49 PM
Try 5 points per game. And was far better than that when it comes to common opponents.

Yes, and does anyone think that Orton comes back from 17 down to the Texans, or the local high school team to win the game?

maven
09-22-2011, 06:55 PM
Yes, and does anyone think that Orton comes back from 17 down to the Texans, or the local high school team to win the game?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say he's never brought a team back 17 down and win the game in his entire NFL career.

TheChosen15One
09-22-2011, 07:01 PM
Orton couldn't bring a DVD back, much less a football team.

TailgateNut
09-22-2011, 07:05 PM
Orton couldn't bring a DVD back, much less a football team.


Guess what. He wasn't chosen.;D

Kinda tells ya he's worse than the guy your ragging on.

TheChosen15One
09-22-2011, 07:07 PM
Or tells me Fox still wants to stick with loser QBs like he did in Carolina. :D But really? You think Orton brings us back in that game??

oubronco
09-22-2011, 07:10 PM
Tebow

TailgateNut
09-22-2011, 07:10 PM
Or tells me Fox still wants to stick with loser QBs like he did in Carolina. :D But really? You think Orton brings us back in that game??

Of course not, he's not able to walk on ****ing water like your idol.

TailgateNut
09-22-2011, 07:11 PM
Or tells me Fox still wants to stick with loser QBs like he did in Carolina. :D But really? You think Orton brings us back in that game??

2nd reply: Fox is comitting coaching suicide.Hilarious!

oubronco
09-22-2011, 07:12 PM
Tebow!!!!!!!!!!!



















Is third string :~ohyah!:

TheChosen15One
09-22-2011, 07:13 PM
Of course not, he's not able to walk on ****ing water like your idol.

Which is why Tebow should start rainy games.:~ohyah!:

TailgateNut
09-22-2011, 07:14 PM
Tebow!!!!!!!!!!!
.



















Is third string :~ohyah!:



That's only because we don't have 4 Qbs.

TailgateNut
09-22-2011, 07:15 PM
Which is why Tebow should start rainy games.


in washington park.

TheChosen15One
09-22-2011, 07:16 PM
That's only because we don't have 4 Qbs.

Chef? That you??

OABB
09-22-2011, 07:18 PM
Tebow!!!!!!!!!!!



















Is third string :~ohyah!:


really? link to depth chart?

TailgateNut
09-22-2011, 07:18 PM
Chef? That you??


WTF are you yammering about?

TheChosen15One
09-22-2011, 07:25 PM
Someone else can explain it to you.

TailgateNut
09-22-2011, 07:35 PM
Someone else can explain it to you.

I know, you're too busy hugging nuts

TheChosen15One
09-22-2011, 07:41 PM
No, it's because I don't have any crayons to spell it out for you. Wow this took a turn for the worse....no sense of humor on these boards either I see.

Punisher
09-22-2011, 07:43 PM
No, it's because I don't have any crayons to spell it out for you. Wow this took a turn for the worse....no sense of humor on these boards either I see.

Oh fairy boy wants some dick

Eldorado
09-22-2011, 07:56 PM
Chef? That you??

Luuulz.

errand
09-22-2011, 08:53 PM
Yes, and does anyone think that Orton comes back from 17 down to the Texans, or the local high school team to win the game?
maybe he does, maybe he doesn't...... Of course then again one would have to accept the premise that we would of been down 17 to begin with. Quite frankly I don't believe we woulda been down by 17..... A healthy kyle orton would've carved the texans secondary up

Dedhed
09-22-2011, 09:49 PM
maybe he does, maybe he doesn't...... Of course then again one would have to accept the premise that we would of been down 17 to begin with. Quite frankly I don't believe we woulda been down by 17..... A healthy kyle orton would've carved the texans secondary up

lulz

TheDave
09-22-2011, 10:05 PM
maybe he does, maybe he doesn't...... Of course then again one would have to accept the premise that we would of been down 17 to begin with. Quite frankly I don't believe we woulda been down by 17..... A healthy kyle orton would've carved the Texans secondary up

He absolutely would have. The Texans secondary was Terrible last year.

Jay3
09-22-2011, 10:12 PM
He absolutely would have. The Texans secondary was Terrible last year.

I would hope so. Tebow averaged a higher YPA in that Texans game than Kyle hit for any game last year.

Dedhed
09-22-2011, 10:21 PM
He absolutely would have. The Texans secondary was Terrible last year.

Just like Orton was better against the Chargers and Raiders...oh wait...

TheDave
09-22-2011, 10:30 PM
Just like Orton was better against the Chargers and Raiders...oh wait...

Orton was better against SD... Raiders, not so much

Simple Jake
09-22-2011, 10:38 PM
I know, you're too busy hugging nuts

1. You're not his bro
2. You don't do crack

Simple Jake
09-22-2011, 10:45 PM
you sure bro?

Hey man he's not your bro

jhns
09-23-2011, 07:58 AM
Orton was better against SD... Raiders, not so much

Orton against SD: 217 passing yards, 1 td, 1 int, 4 rushing yards, 14 points scored

Tebow against SD: 205 passing yards, 3 tds, 2 ints, 94 rushing yards, 28 points scored

I don't at all agree with what you just said.

Dagmar
09-23-2011, 08:33 AM
We have literally run out of things to talk about. So we go round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.... http://goofygifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/funny-gifs-merry-go-round.gif

jhns
09-23-2011, 08:39 AM
We have literally run out of things to talk about. So we go round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.... http://goofygifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/funny-gifs-merry-go-round.gif

Aren't you glad your hero killed this franchise and took away everything that was interesting to talk about? I find it funny that you trolled everyone that questioned McDaniels and now you question Fox and Elway. You trusted McDaniels more than Elway...

TheReverend
09-23-2011, 08:43 AM
He absolutely would have. The Texans secondary was Terrible last year.

lol

So were the Cardinals, 49ers and Jaguars last year.

2 TDs, 7 TOs, 3 losses.

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 08:50 AM
Orton was better against SD... Raiders, not so much

This is what makes me laugh about people who prefer Orton to Tebow. They say Orton was better because he threw for more yards. It doesn't matter that Tebow put up twice as many points and actually gave us a chance to win because Orton looked prettier in scoring 14 points and losing by 3 touchdowns.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 09:00 AM
This is what makes me laugh about people who prefer Orton to Tebow. They say Orton was better because he threw for more yards. It doesn't matter that Tebow put up twice as many points and actually gave us a chance to win because Orton looked prettier in scoring 14 points and losing by 3 touchdowns.

Go watch the game again... Tebow spent large portions of the game unable to hit the broad side of a barn. How can people pretend that completing less than 50% of your passes in a losing effort is supportive of more playing time.

Honestly, the football IQ around here has plummeted.

jhns
09-23-2011, 09:02 AM
Go watch the game again... Tebow spent large portions of the game unable to hit the broad side of a barn. How can people pretend that completing less than 50% of your passes in a losing effort is supportive of more playing time.

Honestly, the football IQ around here has plummeted.

His production was much better than Ortons in a much closer game. We scored twice as many points. This, "he doesn't look pretty", argument isn't making any sense.

You are correct that the football IQ has plummeted. You are claiming far superior production isn't good because you don't think he looked good doing it... Wtf?

OABB
09-23-2011, 09:03 AM
Go watch the game again... Tebow spent large portions of the game unable to hit the broad side of a barn. How can people pretend that completing less than 50% of your passes in a losing effort is supportive of more playing time.

Honestly, the football IQ around here has plummeted.

Some people prefer actual points to passer ratings?

idiots.

jhns
09-23-2011, 09:06 AM
Orton against SD: 217 passing yards, 1 td, 1 int, 4 rushing yards, 14 points scored

Tebow against SD: 205 passing yards, 3 tds, 2 ints, 94 rushing yards, 28 points scored

I don't at all agree with what you just said.

Orton did better! I has better fotball IQ than yous!

Everyone that watches football knows that the objective on offense is a high completion percentage and not producing yards or scoring points...

Dagmar
09-23-2011, 09:11 AM
Aren't you glad your hero killed this franchise and took away everything that was interesting to talk about? I find it funny that you trolled everyone that questioned McDaniels and now you question Fox and Elway. You trusted McDaniels more than Elway...

jhns, I fully admitted I was wrong on McDaniels. I was happy getting rid of the frown cannon and stab magnet, but most of his decisions beyond that were not justifiable. He took us on a fun ride for 6 games, hell the games I attended (how many did you go to jhns?) he had a winning record over all ROFL! I picked the right ones.

He was a mistake. I moved on. Like a grown up.

This front office has created a cluster**** with the QB position and shown lack of attention to the DT position. Just like McD, they told us they were going to do one thing and did the opposite, so I am very skeptical at this point. From the season ticket campaign that promoted Tebow on all the literature(with no Orton to be found) to Elway's contemptible tweet last week, I think they have no respect for any of the fans.

I moved on. You could be a decent poster if you grew up and moved on. Instead you live your life satisfied by the knowledge you are an internet tough guy. Have fun with that bro. Must be awesome Hilarious!

bronco militia
09-23-2011, 09:11 AM
I bet Kyle was better in practice leading up to the Texans game.

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 09:13 AM
Go watch the game again... Tebow spent large portions of the game unable to hit the broad side of a barn. How can people pretend that completing less than 50% of your passes in a losing effort is supportive of more playing time.

Honestly, the football IQ around here has plummeted.

On what planet is 14 points better than 28? You want to talk about football IQ? Let's start with general IQ and work our way up.

What you don't seem to get is that despite being inaccurate, Tebow was still twice as effective. You're stick on aesthetically pleasing QB play instead of just get the job done and put points on the board QB play.

Tebow may never be an aesthetically pleasing passer, but he's already a more effective football player who's capable of leading this team to more points weak in and week out.

You seem like the kind of guy who would prefer a nice crisp new $10 bill to a grimy, wrinkled old $100.


BTW, Orton completed 47% of his passes in his last three starts last year.

Dagmar
09-23-2011, 09:13 AM
I bet Kyle was better in practice leading up to the Texans game.

Kyle is the Peyton Manning of practice.

bronco militia
09-23-2011, 09:15 AM
Kyle is the Peyton Manning of practice.

make room for Kyle in Canton! Ha!

jhns
09-23-2011, 09:16 AM
jhns, I fully admitted I was wrong on McDaniels. I was happy getting rid of the frown cannon and stab magnet, but most of his decisions beyond that were not justifiable. He took us on a fun ride for 6 games, hell the games I attended (how many did you go to jhns?) he had a winning record over all ROFL! I picked the right ones.

He was a mistake. I moved on. Like a grown up.

This front office has created a cluster**** with the QB position and shown lack of attention to the DT position. Just like McD, they told us they were going to do one thing and did the opposite, so I am very skeptical at this point. From the season ticket campaign that promoted Tebow on all the literature(with no Orton to be found) to Elway's contemptible tweet last week, I think they have no respect for any of the fans.

I moved on. You could be a decent poster if you grew up and moved on. Instead you live your life satisfied by the knowledge you are an internet tough guy. Have fun with that bro. Must be awesome Hilarious!
.
It is pretty awsome. Your hypocrisy and stupidity is far better though. My comment wasn't about you being a McFan. It was about you trolling everyone that questioned the front office and then questioning the front office...

OABB
09-23-2011, 09:17 AM
On what planet is 14 points better than 28? You want to talk about football IQ? Let's start with general IQ and work our way up.

What you don't seem to get is that despite being inaccurate, Tebow was still twice as effective. You're stick on aesthetically pleasing QB play instead of just get the job done and put points on the board QB play.

Tebow may never be an aesthetically pleasing passer, but he's already a more effective football player who's capable of leading this team to more points weak in and week out.

You seem like the kind of guy who would prefer a nice crisp new $10 bill to a grimy, wrinkled old $100.


BTW, Orton completed 47% of his passes in his last three starts last year.


great post. the Dave is kind of a moron, so go easy on him. Not his fault, he has the brain worm disease.

Dagmar
09-23-2011, 09:19 AM
make room for Kyle in Canton! Ha!

The practice hall of Fame is in Wichita, Kansas.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 09:20 AM
I know this is tough for everyone but completing 44% of your passes isn't good enough to play in the NFL... But, by all means keep selling that loss as a reason he should start.

Dagmar
09-23-2011, 09:22 AM
.
It is pretty awsome. Your hypocrisy and stupidity is far better though. My comment wasn't about you being a McFan. It was about you trolling everyone that questioned the front office and then questioning the front office...

Sorry bro, learn to spell (if you look up, I actually spelled awesome correctly, feel free to copy and paste). I understand you thought this would be a dialogue of sorts, but I have no interest in engaging with you further and I'm pretty sure no one has an interest in reading it. Feel free to PM if you really want to chat, but I won't pollute the board if you jizzing all over the place.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 09:22 AM
great post. the Dave is kind of a moron, so go easy on him. Not his fault, he has the brain worm disease.

Says another member of the McD's Band who hopes we forget just how wrong he has always been...

jhns
09-23-2011, 09:23 AM
I know this is tough for everyone but completing 44% of your passes isn't good enough to play in the NFL... But, by all means keep selling that loss as a reason he should start.

Orton has done the same thing. This isn't an argument of is Tebow going to be a star. It is an argument that Tebow is better than Orton as proven by him playing better.

You claim this loss crap when you started this by saying Orton played better against the Chargers. Orton lost by much more to the Chargers while producing much less. You then try insulting everyone else with some IQ smack. You Sr. are an idiot.

jhns
09-23-2011, 09:24 AM
Sorry bro, learn to spell (if you look up, I actually spelled awesome correctly, feel free to copy and paste). I understand you thought this would be a dialogue of sorts, but I have no interest in engaging with you further and I'm pretty sure no one has an interest in reading it. Feel free to PM if you really want to chat, but I won't pollute the board if you jizzing all over the place.

LOL

You sure got me! It wasn't meant to be a conversation. It was me laughing at your stupidity.

Dagmar
09-23-2011, 09:28 AM
TheDave, We have 7 years of mediocrity to show what Orton is. I don't want someone like Dilfer as my QB. Maybe you are OK with it and prefer to have a game manager while the D wins games and I respect that if you do.

But I'm jealous of the Pats, Saints and Green Bay with their elite QB's.

We don't know what we have in Tebow. We do know that this team is in a rebuild after a missed off-season and entirely knew regime. I want to see what we have in Tebow this year BEFORE the excellent QB class of '12 comes around, because if Tebow ISN'T good enough, we should get one, if Tebow does look good, we can pick up someone else in the 1st to fill one of our MANY needs. (copied and pasted from another thread)

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 09:28 AM
I know this is tough for everyone but completing 44% of your passes isn't good enough to play in the NFL... But, by all means keep selling that loss as a reason he should start.

So now we're just making numbers up and, of course, operating on the assumption that Tebow couldn't possibly improve over his first 3 starts as far as accuracy goes. gotcha!

TheDave
09-23-2011, 09:31 AM
Orton has done the same thing. This isn't an argument of is Tebow going to be a star. It is an argument that Tebow is better than Orton as proven by him playing better.

You claim this loss crap when you started this by saying Orton played better against the Chargers. Orton lost by much more to the Chargers while producing much less. You then try insulting everyone else with some IQ smack. You Sr. are an idiot.

Watch the game again... If you think he played like a starting NFL QB then your football IQ is lacking.

The stats show he is not ready, the tape showes the same thing... It's why everyone outside of this message board says he is not ready.

Look at it this way...

People who think tebow should start: Jhns, dedhead, Oab, agamemnon, macgrudder, josh mcdaniels

People who think tebow should sit: Thedave, broncos coaching staff, John Elway

I know this won't sink in, but fwiw, I'm comfortable with the people on my list.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 09:33 AM
TheDave, We have 7 years of mediocrity to show what Orton is. I don't want someone like Dilfer as my QB. Maybe you are OK with it and prefer to have a game manager while the D wins games and I respect that if you do.

But I'm jealous of the Pats, Saints and Green Bay with their elite QB's.

We don't know what we have in Tebow. We do know that this team is in a rebuild after a missed off-season and entirely knew regime. I want to see what we have in Tebow this year BEFORE the excellent QB class of '12 comes around, because if Tebow ISN'T good enough, we should get one, if Tebow does look good, we can pick up someone else in the 1st to fill one of our MANY needs. (copied and pasted from another thread)

IMO if you put tebow in now, you are gauranteeing we draft his replacement... I don't think we are giving him a fair chance, we are just feeding him to the lions.

I do not think his game is ready.

Drek
09-23-2011, 09:40 AM
People who think tebow should start: Jhns, dedhead, Oab, agamemnon, macgrudder, josh mcdaniels

People who think tebow should sit: Thedave, broncos coaching staff, John Elway

Josh McDaniels borderline laughed at the suggestion he should start Tebow at any point last year and he signed Orton through the 2011 season, so why do you assume he'd start him now?

Face it man, you agree with Josh McDaniels. You're just a Joshie loving McD apologist, backing his play to not start Tebow even after he's gone. Take the blinders off Dave. We're just here to help you.

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 09:42 AM
Watch the game again... If you think he played like a starting NFL QB then your football IQ is lacking.

The stats show he is not ready, the tape showes the same thing... It's why everyone outside of this message board says he is not ready.

Look at it this way...

People who think tebow should start: Jhns, dedhead, Oab, agamemnon, macgrudder, josh mcdaniels

People who think tebow should sit: Thedave, broncos coaching staff, John Elway

I know this won't sink in, but fwiw, I'm comfortable with the people on my list.
Actually, McDaniels belongs on your list. Still comfy?

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 09:46 AM
IMO if you put tebow in now, you are gauranteeing we draft his replacement

So what? I completely disagree given that there's really no evidence to support the idea that he's completely out of his league in the NFL, but so what if he does stink it up and we draft his replacement?

At least we would be investing a high pick in a QBOF based on better knowledge of what Tebow is.

Orton does nothing but delay the rebuilding of this team.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 09:47 AM
Josh McDaniels borderline laughed at the suggestion he should start Tebow at any point last year and he signed Orton through the 2011 season, so why do you assume he'd start him now?

Because after 2 years of watching huricane josh i realize that he will make the wrong decision the vast majority of the time... so the odds are significantly in my favor.

Why haven't you figured that out yet?

jhns
09-23-2011, 09:48 AM
Whatch the game again... If you think he played like a starting NFL QB then your football iq is lacking.

The stats show he is not ready, the taps showes the smame thing... It's why everyone outside of this message board says he is not ready.

Look at it this way...

People who think tebow should start: Jhns, dedhead, Oab, agamemnon, macgrudder, josh mcdaniels

People who think tebow should sit: Thedave, broncos coaching staff, John Elway

I know this won't sink in, but fwiw, I'm comfortable with the people on my list.

So you think completion percentage means more than production. You then say others are lacking in football IQ. You say Orton played better in a game where he produced fewer yards and points as you claim others football IQs are lacking.

Your same argument about management has been used for two years. Everyone that used it now looks like an idiot. I will go with facts, like always.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 09:49 AM
So you think completion percentage means more than production. You then say others are lacking in football IQ. You say Orton played better in a game where he produced fewer yards and points as you claim others football IQs are lacking.

Your same argument about management has been used for two years. Everyone that used it now looks like an idiot. I will go with facts, like always.



Fair enough well meet back here after he gets relesased... ;D

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 09:55 AM
Because after 2 years of watching huricane josh i realize that he will make the wrong decision the vast majority of the time... so the odds are significantly in my favor.



So, you're of the "I'll assume whatever I need to in order to make my argument look plausible" lilt?

I notice you haven't answered to making up Tebow's 44% completion pct, yet. Any particular reason?

Drek
09-23-2011, 10:04 AM
Because after 2 years of watching huricane josh i realize that he will make the wrong decision the vast majority of the time... so the odds are significantly in my favor.

Why haven't you figured that out yet?

Come on now, a bit of intellectual honesty please.

You agree with McDaniels that Tebow needs more time to develop. Nothing to be ashamed of. Don't try to twist reality to fit your perception of it.

You and Josh are like two peas in a pod when it comes to Timbow.

Inkana7
09-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Come on now, a bit of intellectual honesty please.

You agree with McDaniels that Tebow needs more time to develop. Nothing to be ashamed of. Don't try to twist reality to fit your perception of it.

You and Josh are like two peas in a pod when it comes to Timbow.

This is poor argumentation.

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 10:17 AM
This is poor argumentation.

No, it's highlighting poor argumentation.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 10:20 AM
Come on now, a bit of intellectual honesty please.

You agree with McDaniels that Tebow needs more time to develop. Nothing to be ashamed of. Don't try to twist reality to fit your perception of it.

You and Josh are like two peas in a pod when it comes to Timbow.

OK Drek... what ever you say.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 10:24 AM
So, you're of the "I'll assume whatever I need to in order to make my argument look plausible" lilt?

I notice you haven't answered to making up Tebow's 44% completion pct, yet. Any particular reason?

Oh Boy...

He went 16/36

Divide those numbers and tell me what you get.


...and with that final bit of genius I'm going to let you Mensa types argue this one out.

Triplelefthook
09-23-2011, 10:24 AM
I am no Josh McDaniels apologist, furthest from it, but he did sign Kyle thru the end of this year and had Tebow on an incentive-based contract that only paid him if he saw a certain majority percentage of starting snaps in this NFL season.... seems McDaniels had it in mind to start Orton and sit Tebow this year as well.

I still say it's a criminal misuse of a first round draft pick. But it looks like the plan was set in place from the get-go

bronco militia
09-23-2011, 10:34 AM
The practice hall of Fame is in Wichita, Kansas.

oh man, talk about a boring town. Ha!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-23-2011, 10:44 AM
I am no Josh McDaniels apologist, furthest from it, but he did sign Kyle thru the end of this year and had Tebow on an incentive-based contract that only paid him if he saw a certain majority percentage of starting snaps in this NFL season.... seems McDaniels had it in mind to start Orton and sit Tebow this year as well.

I still say it's a criminal misuse of a first round draft pick. But it looks like the plan was set in place from the get-go

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/aaron-rodgers.jpg

Oh, hai!

TailgateNut
09-23-2011, 10:48 AM
Oh Boy...

He went 16/36

Divide those numbers and tell me what you get.


...and with that final bit of genius I'm going to let you Mensa types argue this one out.


Hilarious! Jhizz, Dedhead, Argumentative, OABB, and the rest of the TimBoy fanclub wouldn't qualify if they were to combine all of their gray matter.

DrFate
09-23-2011, 10:54 AM
[IMG]Oh, hai!

You are such a moron

You compare a situation where a team spent a late first round pick on a QB that dropped and sat behind a HOF quarterback to a situation where a team spent several picks to trade UP to get a QB and he sits behind a below-average journeyman

Admit it - he pays you in used jockstraps, right?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-23-2011, 11:04 AM
You are such a moron

You compare a situation where a team spent a late first round pick on a QB that dropped and sat behind a HOF quarterback to a situation where a team spent several picks to trade UP to get a QB and he sits behind a below-average journeyman

Admit it - he pays you in used jockstraps, right?

"Criminal misuse of a first round pick." Just pointing out that it's not actually the case. I wasn't even slightly "comparing" the situations. Not remotely.

Keep up the good work, Doc!

Triplelefthook
09-23-2011, 11:05 AM
You are such a moron

You compare a situation where a team spent a late first round pick on a QB that dropped and sat behind a HOF quarterback to a situation where a team spent several picks to trade UP to get a QB and he sits behind a below-average journeyman

Admit it - he pays you in used jockstraps, right?


I do think that the situations are remarkably different when you actually look at them. On the surface, a very simple-minded person would probably think they are the same.

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 11:07 AM
Oh Boy...

He went 16/36

Divide those numbers and tell me what you get.


...and with that final bit of genius I'm going to let you Mensa types argue this one out.

Oh, I get it. we're just going to cherry pick his worst stat. Now I'm with you.

What do you get when you divide 9 by 28, Mensa?

No wonder you're leaving.

Triplelefthook
09-23-2011, 11:08 AM
"Criminal misuse of a first round pick." Just pointing out that it's not actually the case. I wasn't even slightly "comparing" the situations. Not remotely.

Keep up the good work, Doc!


You have to be comparing them if you post a picture of Aaron Rodgers. One first round pick was used on a QB who fell to them and was a great value pick, to sit behind a HOF QB, while the other first round pick was acquired through painstaking manuevering to draft a QB that was a reach at that pick and would sit behind an average at best QB. Also looking at both the QB's skillsets (Rodgers vs. Tebow), I still think it was criminal misuse of the pick to draft TimTim

TheDave
09-23-2011, 11:09 AM
Hilarious! Jhizz, Dedhead, Argumentative, OABB, and the rest of the TimBoy fanclub wouldn't qualify if they were to combine all of their gray matter.

After that last bit of stupid, I'm done talking tebow with the zealots.

With that in mind I wonder how much better this would be if someone iggy'd the most vocal ignoramuses...

Jhns, Dedhead, Agamemnon, OABB, AphaSierra...

Who am I missing?

DrFate
09-23-2011, 11:10 AM
You have to be comparing them if you post a picture of Aaron Rodgers. One first round pick was used on a QB who fell to them and was a great value pick, to sit behind a HOF QB, while the other first round pick was acquired through painstaking manuevering to draft a QB that was a reach at that pick and would sit behind an average at best QB. Also looking at both the QB's skillsets (Rodgers vs. Tebow), I still think it was criminal misuse of the pick to draft TimTim

He runs around from thread to thread telling everyone that Orton is a godsend and fans that want to see if Tebow is the future are stupid.

I wonder sometimes if it really IS Kyle Orton.

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 11:12 AM
After that last bit of stupid, I'm done talking tebow with the zealots.

Probably a good call. You have put quite a bit of stupid out there in this thread.

jhns
09-23-2011, 11:19 AM
After that last bit of stupid, I'm done talking tebow with the zealots.

With that in mind I wonder how much better this would be if someone iggy'd the most vocal ignoramuses...

Jhns, Dedhead, Agamemnon, OABB, AphaSierra...

Who am I missing?

Says the guy claiming half the points scored and half the production is a better offensive performance. I couldn''t be that stupid if I tried.

TheDave
09-23-2011, 11:22 AM
After that last bit of stupid, I'm done talking tebow with the zealots.

With that in mind I wonder how much better this would be if someone iggy'd the most vocal ignoramuses...

Jhns, Dedhead, Agamemnon, OABB, AphaSierra...

Who am I missing?

Wow... for those of you not wearing a #15 Gators jersey. Putting the above on iggy makes this place real efficient. :strong:

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 11:23 AM
You have to be comparing them if you post a picture of Aaron Rodgers. One first round pick was used on a QB who fell to them and was a great value pick, to sit behind a HOF QB, while the other first round pick was acquired through painstaking manuevering to draft a QB that was a reach at that pick and would sit behind an average at best QB. Also looking at both the QB's skillsets (Rodgers vs. Tebow), I still think it was criminal misuse of the pick to draft TimTim

Of course he's trying to compare them. He's not one who is much concerned with relevance to what's actually going on.

Dedhed
09-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Wow... for those of you not wearing a #15 Gators jersey. Putting the above on iggy makes this place real efficient. :strong:
I love people who come to public forums and then choose not to participate.

jhns
09-23-2011, 11:39 AM
Wow... for those of you not wearing a #15 Gators jersey. Putting the above on iggy makes this place real efficient. :strong:

LOL @ looking to validate himself as no one agrees with his stupidity.

"More yards and points is bad for an offense. I is bring smart arguments and yous ruin board!"

oubronco
09-23-2011, 12:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

jhns
09-23-2011, 12:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

They put the embed feature right there on the youtube page. An Orton fan is still too stupid to figure it out. Go figure!

oubronco
09-23-2011, 12:22 PM
They put the embed feature right there on the youtube page. An Orton fan is still too stupid to figure it out. Go figure!

**** off jizz

jhns
09-23-2011, 12:24 PM
**** off jizz

I'm not even sure how to **** jizz off...

OABB
09-23-2011, 12:27 PM
I know this is tough for everyone but completing 44% of your passes isn't good enough to play in the NFL... But, by all means keep selling that loss as a reason he should start.

agreed. Timmy definitely has to improve in this area dramatically. No one would say otherwise.

try to get this through your thick brain worm infested skull....

even at 44% he scored MORE!

that is more than enough reason to put him in. He will struggle and make mistakes, but OUR OFFENSE SCORES MORE POINTS WHEN HE IS IN!!!!! even as a raw rookie. The crux here is also that more playing time will help his development, so many of us are willing to ride out his struggles, because even as a terrible qb, he is RIGHT NOW the better option ALREADY!

This is where a rebuilding franchise with a functional football IQ would go as well. Hence the trade attempt for ORTON.

Now did Timmy **** the bed at the beginning of training camp and scare everyone?...probably EXACTLY what happened.

however, he went on to improve and outplay Orton in the preseason with a terrible back up oline that would have made stone boots Orton set the Guinness book of Fetal records record.


I was never a Tebow fan, hated the guy actually, but because my brain and eyes work AND looking at us as a team in a rebuilding effort, there really is no other choice of who to start.

Starting Orton not only doesn't help the team in the long run, HE is actually A HUGE REASON WHY WE AREN"T A WINNER now. Not the only one I know...but a larger part than any fanboy will admit.

and all you have is 44%?

This is as silly as your brain worm argument.

lonestar
09-23-2011, 12:28 PM
I am no Josh McDaniels apologist, furthest from it, but he did sign Kyle thru the end of this year and had Tebow on an incentive-based contract that only paid him if he saw a certain majority percentage of starting snaps in this NFL season.... seems McDaniels had it in mind to start Orton and sit Tebow this year as well.

I still say it's a criminal misuse of a first round draft pick. But it looks like the plan was set in place from the get-go

Whenhe was drafted everyone said he Would be a 3-4 year project.

Sounds like Josh knew what he was doing.

vancejohnson82
09-23-2011, 01:06 PM
Tebow looked like **** this offseason and preseason....bottom line

hopefully he can improve next year because he is gonna be behind center