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View Full Version : Should Willis Mcgahee be the starter when Knowshon returns?


Chris
09-18-2011, 05:44 PM
I've been a believer in Knowshon for a while but must admit it was a little ridiculous to see him do very little in Game 1 then come up grabbing his hamstring after he decided to do a Crossfit video showcasing his newfound readiness. Willis to me shows greater toughness but more importantly the ability to make some things happen when there isn't much there.

CEH
09-18-2011, 06:00 PM
Mcgahee should start. Ball is just as good in the 2nd RB role. Sharing time with Ball at this point. Realistically Knowshown can go away and not be missed

tsiguy96
09-18-2011, 06:10 PM
unquestionably. its really not even close.

Nwp-Apap
09-18-2011, 06:15 PM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

Moreno is a better running back than McGahee at this point in their respective careers. Film backs that up. When Moreno is back, he should, and will, be the #1 back.

Give Knowshon the same 28 carries McGahee got today and I'm fairly confident he goes over 101 yards.

Bronx33
09-18-2011, 06:18 PM
I am voting know

Aftermath
09-18-2011, 06:19 PM
Yes. IF knowshon stays healthy he can be 3rd down back.

Steve Sewell
09-18-2011, 06:20 PM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

Moreno is a better running back than McGahee at this point in their respective careers. Film backs that up. When Moreno is back, he should, and will, be the #1 back.

Give Knowshon the same 28 carries McGahee got today and I'm fairly confident he goes over 101 yards.

Thats all fine and good. The issue is that if he ran the kind of plays that McGahee did today, Knowshon would get "hurt" on every other play and likely miss the next game anyway.

Drek
09-18-2011, 06:20 PM
I've been a believer in Knowshon for a while but must admit it was a little ridiculous to see him do very little in Game 1

You mean the game where McGahee had a whopping 3 yards on 4 carries?

Yeah. Not exactly the best litmus test of how good a back can be.

If the staff really views the Moreno/McGahee dynamic as "starter/backup" then they've got issues. This should be a tandem. Mix it up on first downs but short yardage is 75% McGahee and 3rd and longs are 75% Moreno.

Better yet, I just saw Philly run a fake toss to McCoy, handoff to Brown for an up the gut 10 yard gain. Why not try something like that? Detroit lines Jahvid Best up at WR at least one of every 5 plays he's in for, why not do that with Moreno?

After seeing Moreno be one of the few spark plugs against Oakland, though almost entirely by receiving the ball, the last thing we should be talking about is how to take him off the field. The loss of Royal and sending Tebow out to play WR should underscore that point rather succinctly.

Man-Goblin
09-18-2011, 06:21 PM
Yes. But stay in bounds, dude. But really, if they can both get about 15-17 carries a game it would be a good thing, and it doesn't matter who starts.

WolfpackGuy
09-18-2011, 06:21 PM
McGahee has a nose for positive yardage.

OrangeSe7en
09-18-2011, 06:22 PM
It just seems like there's less nonsense with McGahee when he runs. Neither are great but Im fed up with all that comes with Moreno. So I choose McGahee.

Tim
09-18-2011, 06:23 PM
yes, he's probably in the same tier at moreno but is 50x more durable.

Popps
09-18-2011, 06:24 PM
Been a Moreno supporter, but I'm tired of dealing with his injuries.

That said, of course, you just rotate the two backs until Moreno gets hurt, and then you give the carries to WM.

Another good pick-up by the staff, imo.

(Though, drafting a young back to develop might have been worthwhile.)

Drek
09-18-2011, 06:26 PM
Thats all fine and good. The issue is that if he ran the kind of plays that McGahee did today, Knowshon would get "hurt" on every other play and likely miss the next game anyway.

How much of an ingrate are you to question a guy's health? Moreno is one of the few guys who keeps working even in our blow outs last year. You really think he's dogging it?

Its entirely possible he's fragile. Its also entirely possible our conditioning team is a ****ing joke seeings how we seem to have a strain/pull/etc. injury that kicks our ass every single year. Sometimes its hamstrings, sometimes its achilles issues, sometimes its groin tears. Yet inextricably the Broncos find a way to lose a solid contingent of players for significant time to the same kinds of conditioning injuries season after season.

Regardless, when on the field he's proven himself to be a weapon. Maybe he can't give you 28 carries in a game but then that is why we signed McGahee in the first place.

We should all be hoping to see a game where McGahee gets 15 carries for 75 yards, Moreno gets 10 for 50, and catches another 5 for 50 more. We lack play makers on offense as it is, the last thing we should do is start ignoring one of the few we have because he might be fragile.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 06:27 PM
The fact that people are so thrilled with such a mediocre performance really puzzles me. McGahee isn't better than Moreno. They are both very meh as NFL runners...

broncolife
09-18-2011, 06:28 PM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

Moreno is a better running back than McGahee at this point in their respective careers. Film backs that up. When Moreno is back, he should, and will, be the #1 back.

Give Knowshon the same 28 carries McGahee got today and I'm fairly confident he goes over 101 yards.

Moreno-23 games started as a bronco and only 2 100+ rushing yards games
McGahee-1 game started as a bronco and 1 100+ rushing yard game.

broncswin
09-18-2011, 06:29 PM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

Moreno is a better running back than McGahee at this point in their respective careers. Film backs that up. When Moreno is back, he should, and will, be the #1 back.

Give Knowshon the same 28 carries McGahee got today and I'm fairly confident he goes over 101 yards.

i am fairly confident he doesn't punch it in on that goal line series, like Willis did...so what should we talk about now :yayaya:

TheDave
09-18-2011, 06:30 PM
Mcgahee absolutely deserves to get the nod... anyone who can not see the difference between him and moreno isn't paying attention.

Chris
09-18-2011, 06:37 PM
You mean the game where McGahee had a whopping 3 yards on 4 carries?

Yeah. Not exactly the best litmus test of how good a back can be.

If the staff really views the Moreno/McGahee dynamic as "starter/backup" then they've got issues. This should be a tandem. Mix it up on first downs but short yardage is 75% McGahee and 3rd and longs are 75% Moreno.

Better yet, I just saw Philly run a fake toss to McCoy, handoff to Brown for an up the gut 10 yard gain. Why not try something like that? Detroit lines Jahvid Best up at WR at least one of every 5 plays he's in for, why not do that with Moreno?

After seeing Moreno be one of the few spark plugs against Oakland, though almost entirely by receiving the ball, the last thing we should be talking about is how to take him off the field. The loss of Royal and sending Tebow out to play WR should underscore that point rather succinctly.

Fair enough. I like that idea. And yes... in hindsight I am being unfair to Moreno. Where I don't think I'm being unfair is his lack of durability.

Hamrob
09-18-2011, 06:39 PM
The guy who can pound it for 28 carries should get the majority of plays. Bring Moreno is for screens and off tackle stuff.

TonyR
09-18-2011, 06:47 PM
...I just saw Philly run a fake toss to McCoy, handoff to Brown for an up the gut 10 yard gain...

We drafted Moreno over McCoy and picked up McGahee in FA over Brown. Sigh.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 06:49 PM
We drafted Moreno over McCoy and picked up McGahee in FA over Brown. Sigh.

The joys of being a Broncos fan anymore...

TheDave
09-18-2011, 06:50 PM
36-3 oddly the only thing that bronco fans can agree on is that Moreno sucks... ;D

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 06:56 PM
36-3 oddly the only thing that bronco fans can agree on is that Moreno sucks... ;D

That 3.6 yard per carry average has all the morons excited it seems.

Swedish Extrovert
09-18-2011, 06:58 PM
Yes. Start Willis with Moreno as a COP back.

hambone13
09-18-2011, 06:59 PM
How much of an ingrate are you to question a guy's health? Moreno is one of the few guys who keeps working even in our blow outs last year. You really think he's dogging it?

Its entirely possible he's fragile. Its also entirely possible our conditioning team is a ****ing joke seeings how we seem to have a strain/pull/etc. injury that kicks our ass every single year. Sometimes its hamstrings, sometimes its achilles issues, sometimes its groin tears. Yet inextricably the Broncos find a way to lose a solid contingent of players for significant time to the same kinds of conditioning injuries season after season.

Regardless, when on the field he's proven himself to be a weapon. Maybe he can't give you 28 carries in a game but then that is why we signed McGahee in the first place.

We should all be hoping to see a game where McGahee gets 15 carries for 75 yards, Moreno gets 10 for 50, and catches another 5 for 50 more. We lack play makers on offense as it is, the last thing we should do is start ignoring one of the few we have because he might be fragile.

I agree that KM has great work ethic but his instincts for one cut, instinctive running are suspect. He needs a Tutu with all the dancing he does. I like his versatility as a receiving back but he has proven to be fragile and suck at running North/South.

Jetmeck
09-18-2011, 07:00 PM
McGahee but seriously we need a new starting RB and QB...............

Drek
09-18-2011, 07:20 PM
I agree that KM has great work ethic but his instincts for one cut, instinctive running are suspect. He needs a Tutu with all the dancing he does. I like his versatility as a receiving back but he has proven to be fragile and suck at running North/South.

It'd be great to see what he'd do with some consistent quality run blocking before we can label him.

McGahee basically took what the OL gave him and then fell forward. It worked to the tune of a 3.6 YPC but some credit of that should be given to how bad the Bengals are.

The last time we saw both of them in the same back field (last week) Moreno's "dancing" got him 33 yards off 8 carries while McGahee's straight forward charge got 3 yards off 4 carries.

Its way too early to assume anything about this team, most notably at RB where our OL hasn't gotten the job done. One thing we can put together right now though is that we need to find a way to get both McGahee and Moreno involved every way we can every week they're available.

broncosteven
09-18-2011, 07:23 PM
This should be our RB depth chart

1) McG
2) Ball
3) KM for 3rd down and to spell McG.

I think if McG has one more 100 yard game he will equal what Knowplay has done.

TheDave
09-18-2011, 07:23 PM
That 3.6 yard per carry average has all the morons excited it seems.

Aga on the opposite side of reality... go figure.

broncosteven
09-18-2011, 07:24 PM
McGahee but seriously we need a new starting RB and QB...............

I agree, we will need to bring in at least 2 new RB's and QB's to compete for the starting jobs next year.

Taco John
09-18-2011, 07:30 PM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

Moreno is a better running back than McGahee at this point in their respective careers. Film backs that up. When Moreno is back, he should, and will, be the #1 back.

Give Knowshon the same 28 carries McGahee got today and I'm fairly confident he goes over 101 yards.

What coach is going to give Knowshon 28 carries?

TheReverend
09-18-2011, 07:32 PM
What coach is going to give Knowshon 28 carries?

Would Knowshon SURVIVE 28 carries...?

OABB
09-18-2011, 07:33 PM
Aga on the opposite side of reality... go figure.

maybe he has the brainworm you believe in?

broncosteven
09-18-2011, 07:33 PM
What coach is going to give Knowshon 28 carries?

Haley has his Stone Age O, 3 of his RB's usually get 20 carries each a game.

Taco John
09-18-2011, 07:36 PM
Would Knowshon SURVIVE 28 carries...?

The most carries he's ever had was 24 carries last year vs. Seattle for 51 yards.

Chris
09-18-2011, 07:44 PM
.

OABB
09-18-2011, 07:45 PM
Still trying to defend the kid i see...

of course.

spdirty
09-18-2011, 07:45 PM
I think Jeremiah Johnson is our best rb, honestly. Well maybe next year he will be but i like his potential. It's kind of personal, but every time I see knowshon I am reminded of that ****ing dip**** that drafted him 12th overall. Just won't get over it till he's gone. So the less I see of knowshon, the less pissed off I get.

TheDave
09-18-2011, 07:46 PM
of course.

It time... let it go

OABB
09-18-2011, 07:46 PM
I think Jeremiah Johnson is our best rb, honestly. It's kind of personal, but every time I see knowshon I am reminded of that ****ing dip**** that drafted him 12th overall. just won't get over it till he's gone. So the less I see of knowshon, the less pissed off I get.

rep for honesty.

OABB
09-18-2011, 07:47 PM
It time... let it go

how so?

TheDave
09-18-2011, 07:49 PM
how so?

If the game tape and Injury report isn't enough... never mind

Bronco Yoda
09-18-2011, 07:50 PM
Been a Moreno supporter, but I'm tired of dealing with his injuries.

That said, of course, you just rotate the two backs until Moreno gets hurt, and then you give the carries to WM.

Another good pick-up by the staff, imo.

(Though, drafting a young back to develop might have been worthwhile.)

Are you starting to see the light? Finally...

Steve Sewell
09-18-2011, 07:51 PM
How much of an ingrate are you to question a guy's health? Moreno is one of the few guys who keeps working even in our blow outs last year. You really think he's dogging it?

Its entirely possible he's fragile. Its also entirely possible our conditioning team is a ****ing joke seeings how we seem to have a strain/pull/etc. injury that kicks our ass every single year. Sometimes its hamstrings, sometimes its achilles issues, sometimes its groin tears. Yet inextricably the Broncos find a way to lose a solid contingent of players for significant time to the same kinds of conditioning injuries season after season.

Regardless, when on the field he's proven himself to be a weapon. Maybe he can't give you 28 carries in a game but then that is why we signed McGahee in the first place.

We should all be hoping to see a game where McGahee gets 15 carries for 75 yards, Moreno gets 10 for 50, and catches another 5 for 50 more. We lack play makers on offense as it is, the last thing we should do is start ignoring one of the few we have because he might be fragile.

I stopped reading after the first sentence, to be honest. How does questioning a players ability to stay healthy make me an ingrate?

OABB
09-18-2011, 07:52 PM
If the game tape and Injury report isn't enough... never mind

the injury report..yes. I am dissapointed in Moreno.

the game tape? no. not retarded. today was the best run blockinh ive seen in years and he didnt play. would love to see him play with this kind of blocking before I give up.

gunns
09-18-2011, 07:57 PM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

Moreno is a better running back than McGahee at this point in their respective careers. Film backs that up. When Moreno is back, he should, and will, be the #1 back.

Give Knowshon the same 28 carries McGahee got today and I'm fairly confident he goes over 101 yards.

The difference right now is 79 yards and 1 TD. **** ypc and being fairly confident, TD's outweigh ypc. Once Moreno starts producing then you can be really confident.

If the OL is blocking better for McGahee, another reason to keep him in.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 07:57 PM
Aga on the opposite side of reality... go figure.

What reality are you referring to? The one where McGahee's 3.6 yards per carry today makes him better than Moreno and his career average of 4.0? Yeah I'm pretty sure that's a reality only you and other delusional fools are experiencing...

TheDave
09-18-2011, 07:57 PM
the injury report..yes. I am dissapointed in Moreno.

the game tape? no. not retarded. today was the best run blockinh ive seen in years and he didnt play. would love to see him play with this kind of blocking before I give up.

Then your not paying enough attention... The kid is soft, indecisive and seems to have poor vision (at the pro-level).

Yes, his blocking sucks more times than not. Todays blocking was by no means the best in years. McGahee made the moist of what he got, pushed some piles and most importantly helped to keep the chains moving.

Unfortunately Moreno excels at none of the above.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 07:58 PM
The difference right now is 79 yards and 1 TD. **** ypc and being fairly confident, TD's outweigh ypc. Once Moreno starts producing then you can be really confident.

Wow...one TD. Moreno's never done that in a game... ::)

You people are nuts.

TheDave
09-18-2011, 07:59 PM
What reality are you referring to? The one where McGahee's 3.6 yards per carry today makes him better than Moreno and his career average of 4.0? Yeah I'm pretty sure that's a reality only you and other delusional fools are experiencing...

Watching football with you must be similiar to the experience i get watching with my 8 year old daughter.

Taco John
09-18-2011, 08:01 PM
It'd be great to see what he'd do with some consistent quality run blocking before we can label him.



Apparently the guy who drafted him believed in a system that doesn't see run or pass blocking as a priority.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 08:04 PM
Watching football with you must be similiar to the experience i get watching with my 8 year old daughter.

Discussing football with you is a lot like having bamboo shoved under my fingernails.

To you a mediocre performance in one game makes one back better than another, when both are mediocre.

It certainly lends some perspective on your takes on Tebow from camp though. You are so clueless it hurts.

Taco John
09-18-2011, 08:07 PM
"The mediocre back that I support is more mediocre than the mediocre back that you support, you dummyhead!"

Drek
09-18-2011, 08:07 PM
Apparently the guy who drafted him believed in a system that doesn't see run or pass blocking as a priority.

Of course not. He took over an offense with borderline pro-bowl linemen like Matt Light with a QB who made very quick reads that McDaniels helped progress to the fastest in the league. Dealing with an OL that needed interior replacements without a ton of depth already on hand, working with a non-elite QB wasn't the skills that got him the job.

Moreno statistically has been far better than any other RB in McDaniels' offense, and that includes Cory Dillon. Getting him in an offense that actually wants to run the ball could be a revelation for him.

I will say this though. If Moreno is back before Royal we'd be fools to not give Moreno some run in the slot. He could be very productive in that role with McGahee in the backfield.

TheDave
09-18-2011, 08:08 PM
Discussing football with you is a lot like having bamboo shoved under my fingernails.

To you a mediocre performance in one game makes one back better than another, when both are mediocre.

It certainly lends some perspective on your takes on Tebow from camp though. You are so clueless it hurts.


Blah, Blah, Blah... Go find MacGrudder and cry about tebow.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 08:11 PM
Blah, Blah, Blah... Go find MacGrudder and cry about tebow.

Oh snap! ::)

gunns
09-18-2011, 08:25 PM
Wow...one TD. Moreno's never done that in a game... ::)

You people are nuts.

With the production Moreno has shown in preseason and last week, 1 TD is something Moreno needs to show THIS YEAR. And dude, 5 TD's in a year is not the production you want from your starting RB.

Requiem
09-18-2011, 09:02 PM
Absolutely not.

OBF1
09-18-2011, 09:26 PM
An idiot that thinks knowshon should get his job back based on McGahee only getting 101 yards on 28 carries is plain stupid. Knowshon could not last 28 carries without getting injured.

I am all for Willis starting for Denver this season.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 09:29 PM
An idiot that thinks knowshon should get his job back based on McGahee only getting 101 yards on 28 carries is plain stupid. Knowshon could not last 28 carries without getting injured.

I am all for Willis starting for Denver this season.

Or how about we use them in tandem as has been the plan from the start? I know it's crazy, but it just might work (kind of).

randomtask
09-18-2011, 09:33 PM
One game, where the guy was decidedly average (didn't average 4 yards per carry) should not be cause for a change in the starting roster.

steeledude
09-18-2011, 09:33 PM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

Moreno is a better running back than McGahee at this point in their respective careers. Film backs that up. When Moreno is back, he should, and will, be the #1 back.

Give Knowshon the same 28 carries McGahee got today and I'm fairly confident he goes over 101 yards.

No way he makes it to 28 carries without hurting himself. Moreno's problem isn't that he lacks ability, it's his injury bug.

KevinJames
09-18-2011, 09:35 PM
Willis should start and I love Moreno hes not a terrible RB, but I think hes more fitted for the third down back role and catching passes out of the backfield.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 09:37 PM
No way he makes it to 28 carries without hurting himself. Moreno's problem isn't that he lacks ability, it's his injury bug.

McGahee won't last long at 28 carries per game either. That's a lot of wear and tear. This is why they are a tandem.

Br0nc0Buster
09-18-2011, 09:40 PM
similar to my feelings on Ryan Harris, after a while if you cant stay healthy it might be a good idea to sort of reduce their roles

I dont know about Moreno's ceiling since he has yet to have adequate blocking, but his constant injuries are annoying

Let Willis get the bulk until Moreno can prove he can go a game without getting hurt

Br0nc0Buster
09-18-2011, 09:40 PM
Watching football with you must be similiar to the experience i get watching with my 8 year old daughter.

Prolly with less crying though

broncocalijohn
09-18-2011, 10:03 PM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

Moreno is a better running back than McGahee at this point in their respective careers. Film backs that up. When Moreno is back, he should, and will, be the #1 back.

Give Knowshon the same 28 carries McGahee got today and I'm fairly confident he goes over 101 yards.

We have seen one 100 yard game. When you look at film, how many of those are with Knowshon in the game or at least finishing it? Can you really count on Moreno from Tuesday to Sunday? Only thing I am confident of is that Moreno will be hurt again in the near future.

No way he makes it to 28 carries without hurting himself. Moreno's problem isn't that he lacks ability, it's his injury bug.

Unless you are specific about this "ability" of his, it is one and the same with the injury bug.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 10:06 PM
We have seen one 100 yard game. When you look at film, how many of those are with Knowshon in the game or at least finishing it? Can you really count on Moreno from Tuesday to Sunday? Only thing I am confident of is that Moreno will be hurt again in the near future.



Unless you are specific about this "ability" of his, it is one and the same with the injury bug.

And this is why you use them together. Come on people...

broncocalijohn
09-18-2011, 10:08 PM
And this is why you use them together. Come on people...

I dont think anyone said he loses his job as a RB. Hell, people can argue about Hillis last year but us that wanted Hillis would have had both Moreno and Hillis. The poll question was who should be the starter? How many starters get a whole **** load of carries compared to #2 since TD?

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 10:13 PM
I dont think anyone said he loses his job as a RB. Hell, people can argue about Hillis last year but us that wanted Hillis would have had both Moreno and Hillis. The poll question was who should be the starter? How many starters get a whole **** load of carries compared to #2 since TD?

Your argument is that McGahee can carry the ball 28 times and Moreno can't, but that doesn't really matter if you are using them as a tandem does it?

broncocalijohn
09-18-2011, 10:35 PM
Your argument is that McGahee can carry the ball 28 times and Moreno can't, but that doesn't really matter if you are using them as a tandem does it?

I dont care if Willis gets 20 and 8 for Moreno. Moreno getting 28 in one game without coming out with an injury is a pipe dream.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 10:37 PM
I dont care if Willis gets 20 and 8 for Moreno. Moreno getting 28 in one game without coming out with an injury is a pipe dream.

Ignoring the the games he's carried 20+ times and not been injured you mean?

And honestly how does that answer my question?

broncocalijohn
09-18-2011, 10:41 PM
Ignoring the the games he's carried 20+ times and not been injured you mean?

And honestly how does that answer my question?

I think Willis gives us a better chance if he is starter and Moreno isnt right now. You want a tandem. I think Moreno will get some rushes but I just see him dancing in the backfield many times. Trust me, I want him to succeed. We took him #12 so he is costing us a ton. I won't blame him for all the crap in the running game but when a guy has this much trouble staying healthy, I want to know on Monday/Tuesday that our starter is not listed as "questionable". I want a guy that is getting the reps and knows he will get the bulk of the carries. That is my answer.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 10:48 PM
I think Willis gives us a better chance if he is starter and Moreno isnt right now. You want a tandem. I think Moreno will get some rushes but I just see him dancing in the backfield many times. Trust me, I want him to succeed. We took him #12 so he is costing us a ton. I won't blame him for all the crap in the running game but when a guy has this much trouble staying healthy, I want to know on Monday/Tuesday that our starter is not listed as "questionable". I want a guy that is getting the reps and knows he will get the bulk of the carries. That is my answer.

I'm not sure how a guy that has missed four games out of 33 gets treated like Ryan Torain around here. He isn't the most durable guy, but he isn't made out of glass either. Honestly I just can't believe people are buying into Willis McGahee as the guy that should be starting after one mediocre game. It's odd.

The best way with these guys is to split the carries roughly 50/50 to minimize injury and fatigue with both. Neither is a playmaker you have to have on the field as much as possible like Adrian Peterson.

broncocalijohn
09-18-2011, 10:53 PM
I'm not sure how a guy that has missed four games out of 33 gets treated like Ryan Torain around here. He isn't the most durable guy, but he isn't made out of glass either. Honestly I just can't believe people are buying into Willis McGahee as the guy that should be starting after one mediocre game. It's odd.

I will be honest and let you know that I have not seen the game today. What this is for us is that McGahee is there, hit 100 yards in his 2nd game as a Bronco and hasnt been hurt. Moreno has come out of games once they start and we need someone to fill in. Just because he starts, doesnt mean he is healthy. Consistency is what we want and trying something new (well, new here) is where we are now. In reality, very few will be Pro Bowl caliber with this Oline.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 11:00 PM
I will be honest and let you know that I have not seen the game today. What this is for us is that McGahee is there, hit 100 yards in his 2nd game as a Bronco and hasnt been hurt. Moreno has come out of games once they start and we need someone to fill in. Just because he starts, doesnt mean he is healthy. Consistency is what we want and trying something new (well, new here) is where we are now. In reality, very few will be Pro Bowl caliber with this Oline.

He had 101 yards off of 28 carries. He wasn't that impressive. The only people who would want him straight up starting over Moreno after that game are Moreno-haters. All he showed today was that he should get a significant portion of the load. But that was already the plan as far as I'm aware.

Ratboy
09-19-2011, 12:42 AM
Wish we could use Moreno more. He was drafted so high, might as well get use out of him.

Too bad he was hurt, could have been an excellent option at receiver for us.

Doggcow
09-19-2011, 01:07 AM
Wish we could use Moreno more. He was drafted so high, might as well get use out of him.

Too bad he was hurt, could have been an excellent option at receiver for us.

He's solid in madden...

fontaine
09-19-2011, 03:10 AM
How much of an ingrate are you to question a guy's health? Moreno is one of the few guys who keeps working even in our blow outs last year. You really think he's dogging it?

Its entirely possible he's fragile. Its also entirely possible our conditioning team is a ****ing joke seeings how we seem to have a strain/pull/etc. injury that kicks our ass every single year. Sometimes its hamstrings, sometimes its achilles issues, sometimes its groin tears. Yet inextricably the Broncos find a way to lose a solid contingent of players for significant time to the same kinds of conditioning injuries season after season.

Regardless, when on the field he's proven himself to be a weapon. Maybe he can't give you 28 carries in a game but then that is why we signed McGahee in the first place.

We should all be hoping to see a game where McGahee gets 15 carries for 75 yards, Moreno gets 10 for 50, and catches another 5 for 50 more. We lack play makers on offense as it is, the last thing we should do is start ignoring one of the few we have because he might be fragile.

Yes that would be ideal. I still like Moreno's skills but there's no denying that McGahee runs harder and is tougher to bring down and that's a big benefit to our run game where we don't really blow open big running lanes.

Traveler
09-19-2011, 03:39 AM
Wow! It only took McGahee two games before he got his first 100 yard rushing day.

Moreno didn't get his first till his second year in the league against KC last Novemeber.

KO5K
09-19-2011, 04:08 AM
I don't know how highly you guys value MUG's analysis but he graded Moreno out with an A for last week (the blocking must've been even worse than I thought).

I think Moreno will be the starter but doubt he'll ever see 28 carries a game.

Drek
09-19-2011, 06:00 AM
Yes that would be ideal. I still like Moreno's skills but there's no denying that McGahee runs harder and is tougher to bring down and that's a big benefit to our run game where we don't really blow open big running lanes.

Moreno doesn't exactly make it easy to tackle him and he's far more elusive. McGahee's entire running style is to take what the OL gives him and push forward for an extra yard or two. Moreno looks to make something happen. We should use those two different styles in the appropriate situations.

I bet Moreno would spend less time on IR if he wasn't always overextending himself trying to make something out of nothing. He'd also spend less time on the IR if we find ways to get him the ball without him having to run through the box and deal with DLs and LBs in the process.

To me Moreno should be viewed much like how the Saints used Reggie Bush and now use Sproles. It is also how the Lions use Best. He should spend a decent amount of time lined up out wide and we should even start looking for ways to put both him and McGahee in the same backfield a la the Eagles play I previously referenced.

Imagine how dangerous a well ran end around would be if we fake to McGahee, toss to Moreno coming from the slot WR position, and have Fells, McGahee, and Decker setting up DBs for Moreno.

Spider
09-19-2011, 06:12 AM
A 3.6 ypc is good when McGahee produces it. But, when Moreno gets a 3.6 ypc, he's a bust.

.

you nailed alot of these fickler bastards with this statement ..as for the rest of your quote ...maybe maybe not ,but with our o line we need us some Hillis

oubronco
09-19-2011, 06:14 AM
He had 101 yards off of 28 carries. He wasn't that impressive. The only people who would want him straight up starting over Moreno after that game are Moreno-haters. All he showed today was that he should get a significant portion of the load. But that was already the plan as far as I'm aware.

It's pretty simple McGahee doesn't take himself out of the game after each 1yd run or trip over himself when he finally has daylight in front of himself

CEH
09-19-2011, 07:02 AM
Why does everyone who loves Moreno ignore the simple fact he can't be counted on game in and game out to not get injured. Maybe if he can put 8+ games in a row together without injuring his hammy he will get more respect.

Right now he's a china doll in a man's league. If you think the injuries decrease as the season rolls on then you a don't understand the toll the game takes and this cat can't make it out of TC or game 1

El Guapo
09-19-2011, 07:07 AM
We should definitely use Moreno as a WR if that position doesn't get better quick. If nothing else, I hate to say this, bring in TO.

edog24
09-19-2011, 09:46 AM
We should definitely use Moreno as a WR if that position doesn't get better quick. If nothing else, I hate to say this, bring in TO.

I was going to say this also, I wouldn't be suprised to see Moreno in the slot or some type of receiver out of the backfield type plays with all the injuries we have.

Rock Chalk
09-19-2011, 10:13 AM
Wow! It only took McGahee two games before he got his first 100 yard rushing day.

Moreno didn't get his first till his second year in the league against KC last Novemeber.

In all fairness, McGahee has been in the league a lot longer. Moreno's rookie year was a lot of learning and very little passing. In his second year, the first 9 games we couldnt run for jack because of 3 starting rookies AND our star LT was not fully recovered.

Im not defending Moreno here, just trying to give some perspective. It's not like his situation has been ideal for RBs and he has just failed.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 10:15 AM
Wow... 90% of OM posters agree on something.

I'm not sure we could get 90% agreeing that McIdiot was a disaster.

Cito Pelon
09-19-2011, 10:21 AM
I still have hope for Moreno. Maybe Fox will call him into the office and light a fire under his ass. Someone has to teach him how to be an RB. Moreno has a ton of skills, but hasn't got anywhere near his potential.

Rock Chalk
09-19-2011, 11:04 AM
Wow... 90% of OM posters agree on something.

I'm not sure we could get 90% agreeing that McIdiot was a disaster.

Its kind of loaded.

I voted for McGahee to be the starter but that does not mean I dont want Moreno heavily involved in the offense both running and passing.

TheDave
09-19-2011, 11:06 AM
Its kind of loaded.

I voted for McGahee to be the starter but that does not mean I dont want Moreno heavily involved in the offense both running and passing.

I think that why everyone is so confused by Aga... I don't think anyone said we should cut him (yet). Just that WM should get the starting nod.

The Joker
09-19-2011, 11:06 AM
I'd start McGahee yes.

But I drafted him in Fantasy Football, so maybe I'm biased.

peacepipe
09-19-2011, 11:13 AM
moreno should be used in the same manner buffalo uses c.j. spiller.

Drek
09-19-2011, 11:23 AM
Why does everyone who loves Moreno ignore the simple fact he can't be counted on game in and game out to not get injured. Maybe if he can put 8+ games in a row together without injuring his hammy he will get more respect.

Right now he's a china doll in a man's league. If you think the injuries decrease as the season rolls on then you a don't understand the toll the game takes and this cat can't make it out of TC or game 1

You mean like his rookie season when he played all 16 games? Or how about last year when he played 13 games?

For being such a "china doll" he sure has ended up playing in an awful lot of games the last two seasons.

peacepipe
09-19-2011, 12:36 PM
The problem with moreno is he is not an every down RB.

WolfpackGuy
09-19-2011, 12:38 PM
So is he a homeless man's Reggie Bush?

CEH
09-19-2011, 12:59 PM
I still have hope for Moreno. Maybe Fox will call him into the office and light a fire under his ass. Someone has to teach him how to be an RB. Moreno has a ton of skills, but hasn't got anywhere near his potential.

Moreno needs to watch and learn how Magahee runs in this offense. That is the type of runner EFX wants a north south tough runner not some flash and dash combination. If Moreno can run tough north and south sure. Not sure he can pound the ball like Willis. Can't help the club from the tub

Houshyamama
09-19-2011, 01:04 PM
You mean the game where McGahee had a whopping 3 yards on 4 carries?

Yeah. Not exactly the best litmus test of how good a back can be.

If the staff really views the Moreno/McGahee dynamic as "starter/backup" then they've got issues. This should be a tandem. Mix it up on first downs but short yardage is 75% McGahee and 3rd and longs are 75% Moreno.

Better yet, I just saw Philly run a fake toss to McCoy, handoff to Brown for an up the gut 10 yard gain. Why not try something like that? Detroit lines Jahvid Best up at WR at least one of every 5 plays he's in for, why not do that with Moreno?

After seeing Moreno be one of the few spark plugs against Oakland, though almost entirely by receiving the ball, the last thing we should be talking about is how to take him off the field. The loss of Royal and sending Tebow out to play WR should underscore that point rather succinctly.

Against the Raiders, didn't McGahee only really come in for short yardage situations?

ozomulsion
09-19-2011, 02:10 PM
I knew this poll was going to turn out ridiculous. Like I said last week. KM and WM both excel running out of the I formation. They both sucked last week when we ran the whole game out of the shotgun. Moreno looked great running out of the I in preseason. If he gets a chance to run out of the I for almost a full game you all will realize how silly the discrepancy of this poll is.

Example: Week 1 rushing stats KM: 8 carries 22 yards
WM: 4 carries 3 yards

Traveler
09-19-2011, 06:43 PM
In all fairness, McGahee has been in the league a lot longer. Moreno's rookie year was a lot of learning and very little passing. In his second year, the first 9 games we couldnt run for jack because of 3 starting rookies AND our star LT was not fully recovered.

Im not defending Moreno here, just trying to give some perspective. It's not like his situation has been ideal for RBs and he has just failed.

Usually after a player's third year in the league, a team has a pretty good idea about him. Fox and company already know Moreno is best used as a third down back. Much was written about during the offseason. Only thing keeping them from relegating him to that role is his draft status IMO.

I'm not dumping on him either, but it's pretty clear he's not a starting caliber RB. Buckhalter, Ball, and now McGahee seem to be able to make positive yardage behind this same O-line most have complained about the last couple of years.

Start McGahee and bring Moreno in on passing downs.

broncocalijohn
09-19-2011, 07:31 PM
The problem with moreno is he is not an every down RB.

He is becoming the "not an every game" RB either.

Dedhed
09-19-2011, 07:45 PM
I've given Moreno the benefit of the doubt due to the pretty weak OL play during his career, but I'm worn out on his injuries, and the fact that McGahee went over 100 in his first try as a starter behind the same OL doesn't bode well for Knowshon.

Archer81
09-19-2011, 08:05 PM
I think McGahee would be better off at 1a and Moreno as 1b.

:Broncos:

gunns
09-19-2011, 08:08 PM
And this is why you use them together. Come on people...

So McGahee gets 20 carries and Moreno gets 8, because that seems to be his ceiling this year as far as "wear and tear".

strafen
09-19-2011, 08:10 PM
I'm hoping for WM to keep feeling our system.
He played very well and we need somebody that adds credibility to our running game...

BroncoBuff
09-19-2011, 08:10 PM
McGahee reminded me of Sammy Winder ... tough, durable, lotsa carries, 3.2 average.

Way too soon to give up on Knowshon, he should get #1 back touches until he proves he's not #1 back talent.

OrangeSe7en
09-19-2011, 08:14 PM
I just listened to Elway on the radio. I found it interesting that he said, Moreno is still in the picture because they need two backs. But he also said that he would hope that Moreno watches how McGahee ran and learn something from him. He was talkign in relation to McGahee running north and south more than Moreno. That's actually pretty scathing. Even Elway has a negative opinion of Moreno.

Archer81
09-19-2011, 08:18 PM
I just listened to Elway on the radio. I found it interesting that he said, Moreno is still in the picture because they need two backs. But he also said that he would hope that Moreno watches how McGahee ran and learn something from him. He was talkign in relation to McGahee running north and south more than Moreno. That's actually pretty scathing. Even Elway has a negative opinion of Moreno.


I really doubt Elway would purposely go on radio and bash a running back for the team he is trying to build. The bolded is pure speculation on your part.


:Broncos:

OrangeSe7en
09-19-2011, 08:21 PM
I really doubt Elway would purposely go on radio and bash a running back for the team he is trying to build. The bolded is pure speculation on your part.


:Broncos:

He said he's not a north-south runner. Given that he hasn't been productive to go along with this, it's pretty damning.

Archer81
09-19-2011, 08:23 PM
He said he's not a north-south runner. Given that he hasn't been productive to go along with this, it's pretty damning.


Our definitions of productive must be different. Elway is correct that Moreno would be better served to run north and south and do less dancing. Elway saying that on the radio does not mean he "hates" Moreno. That is supposition on your part and kind of silly.


:Broncos:

OrangeSe7en
09-19-2011, 08:27 PM
Our definitions of productive must be different. Elway is correct that Moreno would be better served to run north and south and do less dancing. Elway saying that on the radio does not mean he "hates" Moreno. That is supposition on your part and kind of silly.


:Broncos:

Why are you quoting hates? Thats your word. I said it was "damning". And it is.

Archer81
09-19-2011, 08:29 PM
Why are you quoting hates? Thats your word. I said it was "damning". And it is.

You said negative opinion. For most people hate is a negative emotion/opinion. Anyhoo, its a word, chief. You do not have to get all pissy about it.


:Broncos:

OrangeSe7en
09-19-2011, 08:32 PM
You said negative opinion. For most people hate is a negative emotion/opinion. Anyhoo, its a word, chief. You do not have to get all pissy about it.


:Broncos:

No, quoting implies you're referring to a specific word that I said. Clearly that is not the case. And no, you're not correct on suggesting hate and negative opinion are the same thing.

t-diddy
09-19-2011, 08:37 PM
The question is: Which one looks best in practice?

Archer81
09-19-2011, 08:42 PM
No, quoting implies you're referring to a specific word that I said. Clearly that is not the case. And no, you're not correct on suggesting hate and negative opinion are the same thing.

No, quoting means I was using hyperbole to point out the stupidity of your assertion.

You applied the idea that Elway has a negative opinion of Moreno and would publically communicate that. You read more into what Elway said then he probably meant.

Harping on a word. Good God.

:Broncos:

Archer81
09-19-2011, 08:43 PM
The question is: Which one looks best in practice?


Ball.


:Broncos:

maven
09-19-2011, 08:45 PM
Wow! It only took McGahee two games before he got his first 100 yard rushing day.

Moreno didn't get his first till his second year in the league against KC last Novemeber.

Yes, that #12 overall pick really f'n sucks.

OrangeSe7en
09-19-2011, 08:47 PM
No, quoting means I was using hyperbole to point out the stupidity of your assertion.

You applied the idea that Elway has a negative opinion of Moreno and would publically communicate that. You read more into what Elway said then he probably meant.

Harping on a word. Good God.

:Broncos:

No. You're wrong. And I'm done with you. Go find someone else to pick a fight with so you can be wrong again.

t-diddy
09-19-2011, 08:52 PM
Ball.


:Broncos:

^5

Bigdawg26
09-19-2011, 08:52 PM
I would like to see McGaghee start, but Mareno still get about 10-15 carries. I don't think he is workhorse back in the NFL because he gets hurt to much, and he reminds me of a scat back without break away speed. His legs keep moving, but it doesn't look like he goes anywhere. Kinda like he's running on ice! Willis is more of a big downhill runner that is perfect for the scheme. I would really love to see Jeremiah Johnson get some carries!

Archer81
09-19-2011, 08:54 PM
No. You're wrong. And I'm done with you. Go find someone else to pick a fight with so you can be wrong again.


I'm wrong you projected how you feel about Moreno onto something Elway said?

Sure. Have a nice night.

:Broncos:

maven
09-19-2011, 08:57 PM
I would like to see McGaghee start, but Mareno still get about 10-15 carries. I don't think he is workhorse back in the NFL because he gets hurt to much, and he reminds me of a scat back without break away speed. His legs keep moving, but it doesn't look like he goes anywhere. Kinda like he's running on ice! Willis is more of a big downhill runner that is perfect for the scheme. I would really love to see Jeremiah Johnson get some carries!

Willis doesn't give you that breakaway speed. And he's slow. I'm sure Fox is just itchin to spend a 1st on another tailback.

Agamemnon
09-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Willis doesn't give you that breakaway speed. And he's slow. I'm sure Fox is just itchin to spend a 1st on another tailback.

So many positions we could spend our first rounder on, it's not even funny.

HB, CB, MLB, DT, and QB (if they are as clueless as I suspect) are all strong possibilities.

jhns
09-19-2011, 09:02 PM
I think it should be 1a and 1b with pretty equal carries. I like what both bring to the table when healthy. Hopefully this is just bad luck for Moreno and he can stay healthy at some point.

Agamemnon
09-19-2011, 09:04 PM
I think it should be 1a and 1b with pretty equal carries. I like what both bring to the table when healthy.

No, no, this is a Moreno hate party where we tear him down and build up the next vet free agent to be forgotten in two years. You need to just be quiet. ;)

kappys
09-19-2011, 10:43 PM
Usually after a player's third year in the league, a team has a pretty good idea about him. Fox and company already know Moreno is best used as a third down back. Much was written about during the offseason. Only thing keeping them from relegating him to that role is his draft status IMO.

I'm not dumping on him either, but it's pretty clear he's not a starting caliber RB. Buckhalter, Ball, and now McGahee seem to be able to make positive yardage behind this same O-line most have complained about the last couple of years.

Start McGahee and bring Moreno in on passing downs.

He was drafted by the last BBT so no reason for this BBT to care about being a #12 pick.

FWW Mcgahee should be the starter but he is old and I would cap him around 18 carries a game and give the rest and 3rd down to KM unless KM is able to show he deserves more. KM is still a strong blocker, good pass receiver and excellent running after the catch so he certainly has a role to play.

NUB
09-20-2011, 12:30 AM
Uh, Moreno through two seasons has, what, one 100-yard rushing game? Versus the Chiefs, IIRC. McGahee gets his first start and runs for a cool-100 vs. a pretty solid run defense in Cincy. It's not even close. This is what Denver has been missing and McGahee's not exactly a spring chicken anymore, either. Moreno had his chances; he should be relegated to what his "injuries" already force him into: spot duty.

Agamemnon
09-20-2011, 04:28 AM
Uh, Moreno through two seasons has, what, one 100-yard rushing game? Versus the Chiefs, IIRC. McGahee gets his first start and runs for a cool-100 vs. a pretty solid run defense in Cincy. It's not even close. This is what Denver has been missing and McGahee's not exactly a spring chicken anymore, either. Moreno had his chances; he should be relegated to what his "injuries" already force him into: spot duty.

Sigh...

When was the last time a McD offense has run enough to produce a 100 yard rusher off a 3.6 YPC average? Has it ever happened? You people are killing me...

dbfan21
09-20-2011, 05:19 AM
McGahee has a nose for positive yardage.

This! He is almost always falling foward. Moreno dances in the backfield too much. I will say that Moreno is very slippery and has been able to turn bad plays into good ones. But I like McGahee's style a little more.

broncocalijohn
09-20-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm wrong you projected how you feel about Moreno onto something Elway said?

Sure. Have a nice night.

:Broncos:

To jump in, yes, you are wrong. If you think that it is NOT negative to suggest that someone (a RB) runs sideways instead of straight ahead, then no one can help you. It has nothing to do with hate. I mean, everyone knows that you are ........... hairy and grosses some people out but doesn't mean they hate you.

Broncomutt
09-20-2011, 10:43 AM
McGahee fumbles less.

NUB
09-20-2011, 10:45 AM
Sigh...

When was the last time a McD offense has run enough to produce a 100 yard rusher off a 3.6 YPC average? Has it ever happened? You people are killing me...

Moreno can't stay healthy pounding the rock like McGahee did against Cincy, that's the point.

razorwire77
09-20-2011, 11:04 AM
At this point I really don't think it matters what the rotation is, whether Willis is 1A and Moreno is 1B. Or if Willis is 1A, Ball is 1B and Moreno is a 3rd down back. We need to draft a young bell-cow back. Mcgahee was decent last Sunday, but there were a couple of runs that young Mcgahee breaks for 20 yards or more. We're not going to get that many more 28 carry games out of him. I'd be all for keeping Moreno on the team for 3rd down receiving and blocking, assuming he would stay healthy and accept that role.

Archer81
09-20-2011, 03:39 PM
To jump in, yes, you are wrong. If you think that it is NOT negative to suggest that someone (a RB) runs sideways instead of straight ahead, then no one can help you. It has nothing to do with hate. I mean, everyone knows that you are ........... hairy and grosses some people out but doesn't mean they hate you.

Wut?


:Broncos:

cutthemdown
09-20-2011, 03:57 PM
Why even argue? Moreno will be hurt on and off all yr so no way he can be the starter. He's soft, injury prone, and doesn't make many big plays anyways. Maghee though slow and plodding. I would give the rookie a shot if it was up to me. Put JJ and Ball in there and see how they do.

BroncoBuff
09-20-2011, 04:04 PM
Moreno can't stay healthy pounding the rock like McGahee did against Cincy, that's the point.

That's right, we need both. You know, like Sammy Winder & Gerald Willhite, or Rod Bernstine & Glyn Milburn, or Mike Anderson & Tatum Bell. Both.

See what happens when we don't respect Jim Goodman's picks?

See what happens when we toss him aside in favor of Brian-freaking-Xanders?

Agamemnon
09-20-2011, 04:09 PM
Moreno can't stay healthy pounding the rock like McGahee did against Cincy, that's the point.

You should probably brush up on McGahee's career. The guy has suffered plenty of injuries that made him miss a game or two, or caused him to play hurt. That's kind of part of the deal with being a running back. But that would get in the way of the Moreno hate party...

Agamemnon
09-20-2011, 04:10 PM
Why even argue? Moreno will be hurt on and off all yr so no way he can be the starter. He's soft, injury prone, and doesn't make many big plays anyways. Maghee though slow and plodding. I would give the rookie a shot if it was up to me. Put JJ and Ball in there and see how they do.

In his first two seasons he missed 3 games total. The guy is not the greatest back, but the hate he gets around here is absurd.

broncocalijohn
09-20-2011, 04:25 PM
In his first two seasons he missed 3 games total. The guy is not the greatest back, but the hate he gets around here is absurd.

Add up how many quarters or drives he has missed because he is on the sideline injured. No way we are all making **** up with your stat. Constantly leaving games while the winner is still up in the air.

Agamemnon
09-20-2011, 04:28 PM
Add up how many quarters or drives he has missed because he is on the sideline injured. No way we are all making **** up with your stat. Constantly leaving games while the winner is still up in the air.

And that is why we brought McGahee in.

All I can say is get back to me at the end of the season on McGahee. Especially if he does actually start getting the majority of the load. I'm pretty sure people will snap out of it by then.

DBroncos4life
09-20-2011, 04:30 PM
Add up how many quarters or drives he has missed because he is on the sideline injured. No way we are all making **** up with your stat. Constantly leaving games while the winner is still up in the air.

Lots of running backs run to the side line after a carry. They are called backups :)

NUB
09-20-2011, 05:25 PM
You should probably brush up on McGahee's career. The guy has suffered plenty of injuries that made him miss a game or two, or caused him to play hurt. That's kind of part of the deal with being a running back. But that would get in the way of the Moreno hate party...

Moreno removes himself from the game what seems like every other series. McGahee is an aged back who came into the NFL with a knee that was practically disintegrated by a wicked hit in the NCAA championship game, of course he will have injuries here and there, but he has been far more dependable through his career. Moreno can't be a number one back. I don't remember a single game where Denver could say, "Okay Moreno, we're feeding you the rock." Because that physically cannot happen with him as a player. He will get banged up somewhere, flag in the next runner while he limps off to the sideline. Every single game. Completely undependable.

Anyone who thinks Moreno is #1-back material has clearly forgotten what that actually is.

MileHighMagic
10-03-2011, 07:36 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cqtPF5ixWkU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Lolad
10-03-2011, 07:39 AM
The only good thing that Fox has done is show the fans that have been backing Moreno that's he's terrible. He has no patience, that screen could have went for more yards. He slipped when he took a hand off and just fell and also limped off the field.

schaaf
10-03-2011, 07:41 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cqtPF5ixWkU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hahahahaha holy **** how did I miss that?

Rabb
10-03-2011, 07:50 AM
The only good thing that Fox has done is show the fans that have been backing Moreno that's he's terrible. He has no patience, that screen could have went for more yards. He slipped when he took a hand off and just fell and also limped off the field.

I was screaming at the TV for him to just run right up Walton's ass on that play but he had to dance around...which actually caused him to hurt himself. Had he just kept going he would have had at least 3-4 more yards.

DrFate
10-03-2011, 07:57 AM
I'd like to put the Moreno apologists in a cage match with the Orton apologists. Last team standing, their guy keeps a roster spot.