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View Full Version : QB controversy is not the biggest issue for Denver...


Scottish_Bronco
09-17-2011, 04:32 PM
Now before I start, I am not a big fan of Orton's at all. I'd rather watch an infectious winner like Tebow learn on the job than watch an arrogant veteran like Orton stink the place out.

This forum is full of Tebow/Orton threads, everyone putting down Orton etc and nobody is talking about other issues affecting our Broncos. Issues that in my opinion are more responsible for the situation we've found ourselves the past few years. Surely I am not the only one on here who sees the bigger picture here?

For years our defensive line has been neglected. We seem to rely on ageing veterans who come here for one last pay day and subsequently either get injured or fail to live up to any hype. Ty Warren seems to be another one added to the list, hope I'm wrong though. Whilst I seen some improvement on our defense as a whole on Monday night, we still cant stop the run, we're still prone to a big play. If we cant stop the run, then we'll never get to see the full potential of a pass rush of Von Miller and Dumervil.

The other issue is our offensive line. Its been very poor the last year. Our pass protection is not up to scratch and we cant run the ball at all. Just how long do we give guys like Walton and Beadles? No matter who is at QB, with an offensive like this, we wont get anywhere. John Elway needed it along with TD to finally get his Super Bowl.


In the trenches, both sides of the ball is the bigger issues here people. Yes a change at QB might keep some plays alive with Tebow's mobility but I must say I am surprised at this forum full of our QB controversy when we have bigger issues affecting the team.

OrangeSe7en
09-17-2011, 04:34 PM
Not the best year for defensive linemen...at least not at this point.

NUB
09-17-2011, 04:37 PM
I think the reason QB is brought up a lot is because a potential answer for it is already on the team. When it comes to most of the other positions what Denver has is what you're going to get. (Also, I think the offensive-line will be better than people suspect as the year goes on, although I still believe Franklin is more guard-material than tackle.)

Jesterhole
09-17-2011, 04:57 PM
When you are in rebuilding mode, the only thing that really matters is finding a QB. Once you find that, you can build an offense and a team around him.

It's a pity that the front office didn't bring anyone in, or give Tebow a real shot.

peacepipe
09-17-2011, 05:07 PM
You only need to look at the colts to see the differance a franchise QB makes. I am not a believer in orton,quinn or tebow. we haven't drafted our franchise QB yet.

oubronco
09-17-2011, 05:07 PM
You win and Lose in the trenches

TailgateNut
09-17-2011, 05:09 PM
You win and Lose in the trenches


Thank you.

TheReverend
09-17-2011, 05:33 PM
You win and Lose in the trenches

Cute cliche, but the reality is you win and lose on 3rd down.

Gort
09-17-2011, 05:48 PM
actually, you win or lose on the scoreboard.

:thanku:

TheReverend
09-17-2011, 05:50 PM
actually, you win or lose on the scoreboard.

:thanku:

lol you win

Requiem
09-17-2011, 05:51 PM
The less players with DUI's on your roster, the more wins you will have. Unfortunately, we have a lot of drunks on our team.

dsmoot
09-17-2011, 05:57 PM
You win and Lose in the trenches

A number of Non franchise QBs have won Superbowls, very few teams have won without real quality on lines. It was superior line play the put the Broncos over the top after 4 consecutive losses. Your statement is a real axiom of football. Most highly successful teams, consistent year in and year out, live by this.

dsmoot
09-17-2011, 05:58 PM
Cute cliche, but the reality is you win and lose on 3rd down.

Nothing cute about it because teams that win in the trenches, win much more often on 3rd down. This isnt chicken and the egg.

Agamemnon
09-17-2011, 06:02 PM
A number of Non franchise QBs have won Superbowls, very few teams have won without real quality on lines. It was superior line play the put the Broncos over the top after 4 consecutive losses. Your statement is a real axiom of football. Most highly successful teams, consistent year in and year out, live by this.

A number of teams have won Super Bowls with only adequate play in the trenches as well. This whole "this" or "that" wins championships thing never really flies. Good teams with good players throughout the roster win championships. There are plenty of teams with good lines on both sides of the ball that still aren't really good teams.

Kaylore
09-17-2011, 06:22 PM
What if your QB is bad that he sacks himself? What if he's so bad that he fumbles the ball with no contact? How will improving either line correct those kinds of things?

DrFate
09-17-2011, 06:23 PM
A number of Non franchise QBs have won Superbowls

Name five in the past 20 years

OrangeSe7en
09-17-2011, 06:24 PM
What if your QB is bad that he sacks himself? What if he's so bad that he fumbles the ball with no contact? How will improving either line correct those kinds of things?

Because improved run blocking means you'll be running the ball more?

Finger Roll
09-17-2011, 06:50 PM
If you don't have a qb then you don't have a team. No matter how good you are in the trenches. We all know that Orton shouldn't be starting for any team in the league so why not try to develope Tebow.

Jay3
09-17-2011, 06:55 PM
Colin Cowherd (dooshball that he is) has one good thing he likes to say about winning in football --- it's all about the quarterback.

Get a good quarterback.
Protect the quarterback.
Get some receivers for the quarterback to throw to.
Develop an effective run game so teams can't just tee off on the quarterback.

Get a pass rush to get at the other guys quarterback.
Get some shut down corners so the other guys quarterback can't throw to his favorite target.

It just feels like the world is not right on its axis if the quarterback position is up in the air. So while all the other roster spots have to improve, it feels like you can't stay away from that quarterback question.

myMind
09-17-2011, 06:57 PM
Name five in the past 20 years

Rich Gannon - 2003
Trent Dilfer - 2001

Dats it

OrangeSe7en
09-17-2011, 06:58 PM
Colin Cowherd (dooshball that he is) has one good thing he likes to say about winning in football --- it's all about the quarterback.

Get a good quarterback.
Protect the quarterback.
Get some receivers for the quarterback to throw to.
Develop an effective run game so teams can't just tee off on the quarterback.

Get a pass rush to get at the other guys quarterback.
Get some shut down corners so the other guys quarterback can't throw to his favorite target.

It just feels like the world is not right on its axis if the quarterback position is up in the air. So while all the other roster spots have to improve, it feels like you can't stay away from that quarterback question.

Colin Cowherd is garbage. He should never be quoted.

tsiguy96
09-17-2011, 07:02 PM
A number of teams have won Super Bowls with only adequate play in the trenches as well. This whole "this" or "that" wins championships thing never really flies. Good teams with good players throughout the roster win championships. There are plenty of teams with good lines on both sides of the ball that still aren't really good teams.

perfect example: 2010 panthers.

which is weird to me, with their RBs, oline, dline, LBs, how did they suck so bad? could fox really not gameplan around a TERRIBLE qb?

TheReverend
09-17-2011, 07:05 PM
Rich Gannon - 2003
Trent Dilfer - 2001

Dats it

Brad Johnson not Gannon. Raiders lost.

Chris
09-17-2011, 07:07 PM
actually, you win or lose on the scoreboard.

:thanku:

actually, you win or lose when the time runs out.

Finger Roll
09-17-2011, 07:09 PM
and Rich Gannon was and excellent QB with the Raiders

Jay3
09-17-2011, 07:33 PM
and Rich Gannon was and excellent QB with the Raiders

Rich Gannon has a lot of parallels with Tebow. A big physical quarterback who was perceived as run-first coming out of college. It took him years to find somebody to really give him a shot. (Or to learn how to throw, depending on your point of view).

Agamemnon
09-17-2011, 07:45 PM
Rich Gannon has a lot of parallels with Tebow. A big physical quarterback who was perceived as run-first coming out of college. It took him years to find somebody to really give him a shot. (Or to learn how to throw, depending on your point of view).

He wasn't big or physical. Not sure where you got that. Dude was 210 lbs.

Agamemnon
09-17-2011, 07:46 PM
perfect example: 2010 panthers.

which is weird to me, with their RBs, oline, dline, LBs, how did they suck so bad? could fox really not gameplan around a TERRIBLE qb?

If they played anything like what we did on Monday I would think it's pretty obvious.

gunns
09-17-2011, 08:22 PM
Jeff Hostetler - Jan 91

A good QB can get you there but you need a team with good lines to win it. See John Elway.

dsmoot
09-17-2011, 08:28 PM
Rich Gannon - 2003
Trent Dilfer - 2001

Dats it

add rypian, b johnson and that undrafted arena player in St Louis, throw in manning in ny who hasn't delivered as a franchise qb

dsmoot
09-17-2011, 08:29 PM
Rich Gannon has a lot of parallels with Tebow. A big physical quarterback who was perceived as run-first coming out of college. It took him years to find somebody to really give him a shot. (Or to learn how to throw, depending on your point of view).

Gannon always gave Denver fits with Raiders.

Finger Roll
09-17-2011, 08:38 PM
add rypian, b johnson and that undrafted arena player in St Louis, throw in manning in ny who hasn't delivered as a franchise qb

You're telling me Warner wasn't a Franchise qb when he was playing for St. Louis:rofl: And I beg to differ with Gannon not being a franchise qb later on in his career. He was one of the top 5 qb's at the time when he was playing for the Raiders.

Dukes
09-17-2011, 08:44 PM
What if your QB is bad that he sacks himself? What if he's so bad that he fumbles the ball with no contact? How will improving either line correct those kinds of things?

Orton is the backup QB on Necessary Roughness.
"Blow the whistle, blow the whistle!!!"

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spdirty
09-17-2011, 08:56 PM
We have our franchise lt, we have our franchise pass rushers, we get that franchise qb and we've got the most important building blocks for getting a perennial contender set.

Once the quarterback issue is resolved, I'd bet we start seeing pat start spending money again as well.

Dukes
09-17-2011, 08:58 PM
Jeff Hostetler - Jan 91

A good QB can get you there but you need a team with good lines to win it. See John Elway.

Or a real running game in Johns case.

tsiguy96
09-17-2011, 08:59 PM
Or a real running game in Johns case.

john was capable of winning, a lot, without a real running game. not necessarily the whole thing, but he still won.

Dukes
09-17-2011, 09:11 PM
john was capable of winning, a lot, without a real running game. not necessarily the whole thing, but he still won.

Which was my point. A real ground threat (TD) but him over the top.

Finger Roll
09-17-2011, 09:30 PM
It's really hard to tell how the running game is since other teams stack the line because we have a garbage qb who can't take advantage of it.

gunns
09-17-2011, 09:39 PM
Or a real running game in Johns case.

But that running game, and I'm sure TD would agree, could be attributed to that great OL.

primetime714
09-17-2011, 09:47 PM
The Broncos have a ton of issues. I mean you could count the Broncos who had a good game on Monday on one hand. And the two main guys on defense (Champ and Dawk) are on the wrong side of their careers. The team has some building blocks to work with in Doom, Von, Clady, but every other position long term is no better than slightly above average.

Atwater His Ass
09-17-2011, 09:53 PM
We have our franchise lt, we have our franchise pass rushers, we get that franchise qb and we've got the most important building blocks for getting a perennial contender set.

Once the quarterback issue is resolved, I'd bet we start seeing pat start spending money again as well.

That's all great and all, but we don't have any DL that can play the run and the rest of the OL is in shambles.

Understandably everyone wants to get that QB, bu let's not kid ourselves here. We aren't 1 player away from all of the sudden being able to compete in the playoffs.

spdirty
09-17-2011, 10:12 PM
That's all great and all, but we don't have any DL that can play the run and the rest of the OL is in shambles.

Understandably everyone wants to get that QB, bu let's not kid ourselves here. We aren't 1 player away from all of the sudden being able to compete in the playoffs.

Understood. But put a healthy Peyton Manning on this team, and a lot of holes all of a sudden get covered up as we make the playoffs.

Do you disagree?

errand
09-17-2011, 10:43 PM
Cute cliche, but the reality is you win and lose on 3rd down.

Winning the war in the trenches means that you're facing third and short not 3rd and 4 cow pastures...

You guys are always pointing out our failures on third down but you never realize it's our failures on first and second down in the running game that have put us in third and long all the time

Atwater His Ass
09-17-2011, 10:47 PM
Understood. But put a healthy Peyton Manning on this team, and a lot of holes all of a sudden get covered up as we make the playoffs.

Do you disagree?

Don't disagree per se, but there is also a lot of cons with that approach in that trouble areas can be painted over and never addressed due to the fact that you have a guy that can literally put the team on his back and get those W's, circa 1980's Bronco football.

I guess I don't really like the idea of "covering up" holes. Much prefer to acknowledge those and address them accordingly. Personally, I still just cannot get over the lack of attention the new regime has paid to the DL. It blows my mind, especially since we don't have that Manning type of player to hide it. (insert Tebow fanboi argument here).

Dr. Broncenstein
09-17-2011, 10:53 PM
He wasn't big or physical. Not sure where you got that. Dude was 210 lbs.

Lol. It's at least better than some takes around here about the "statuesque" Gannon.

Vegas_Bronco
09-17-2011, 10:54 PM
Building a Super Bowl Caliber Defense:

Fox will need some fan help this season scouting each one of these possible free agents for 2012 - we should address this need in an open letter from the OrangeMane asking for improvement along the defensive line and defensive back/safety position. With thems items addressed, we can roll Tebow (or any other young QB) out in 2012 with a decent defense and give the kid a shot of great success...build the oline through the draft or grab young WR (Blaylock from OSU).
I'm not clowning this years team, but there be gaps in this team that need to be addressed. Hopefully they can improve, but honestly, we aren't a super bowl team yet...within 2 years we definitely could be a playoff team. The two positions I hate drafting young players for are DL and DB just due to the large fall off and difficult maturation that has to occur to adjust to the NFL.

DEFENSIVE LINE
Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current Team
DL John Abraham UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent
DL Dave Ball UFA (Cut) Tennessee Titans Free Agent
DL Alfonso Boone UFA San Diego Chargers Free Agent
DL Raheem Brock UFA Seattle Seahawks Free Agent
DL Adam Carriker UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
DL Darnell Dockett UFA Arizona Cardinals Free Agent
DL Shaun Ellis UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
DL Jonathan Fanene UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
DL Jacob Ford UFA Tennessee Titans Free Agent
DL Aubrayo Franklin UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent
DL Antonio Garay UFA San Diego Chargers Free Agent
DL Wallace Gilberry UFA Kansas City Chiefs Free Agent
DL Kedric Golston UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent
DL Israel Idonije UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent
DL Johnny Jolly UFA Green Bay Packers Free Agent
DL Ma'ake Kemoeatu UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent
DL Damione Lewis UFA Houston Texans Free Agent
DL Robert Mathis UFA Indianapolis Colts Free Agent
DL Daniel Muir UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
DL Haloti Ngata UFA Baltimore Ravens Free Agent
DL Amobi Okoye UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent
DL Juqua Parker UFA Philadelphia Eagles Free Agent
DL Cory Redding UFA Baltimore Ravens Free Agent
DL Aaron Smith UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
DL Paul Soliai UFA Miami Dolphins Free Agent

DEFENSIVE BACKS:
Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current Team
SS Hamza Abdullah UFA Arizona Cardinals Free Agent
FS Mike C. Adams UFA Cleveland Browns Free Agent
CB Jason Allen UFA Miami Dolphins Free Agent
CB Ronde Barber UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers Free Agent
CB Jarrett Bush UFA Green Bay Packers Free Agent
CB Michael Coe UFA New York Giants Free Agent
CB Kennard Cox UFA Seattle Seahawks Free Agent
FS Abram Elam UFA Dallas Cowboys Free Agent
CB Trevor Ford RFA Green Bay Packers Free Agent
FS Dashon Goldson UFA San Francisco 49ers Free Agent
CB Corey Graham UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent
FS Michael Griffin UFA Tennessee Titans Free Agent
CB Brent Grimes UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent
CB Leon Hall UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
CB Al Harris UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
SS Chris Hope UFA Tennessee Titans Free Agent
CB Brian Jackson UFA New York Giants Free Agent
CB Kelly Jennings UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
CB Adam Jones UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
SS Reshard Langford RFA Kansas City Chiefs Free Agent
SS Jim Leonhard UFA Baltimore Ravens Free Agent
CB Anthony Madison UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
CB Richard Marshall UFA Arizona Cardinals Free Agent
CB Rashean Mathis UFA Jacksonville Jaguars Free Agent
CB Bryant McFadden UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
SS Jon McGraw UFA Kansas City Chiefs Free Agent
SS Brandon Meriweather UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent
FS Reggie Nelson UFA Cincinnati Bengals Free Agent
SS Troy Polamalu UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
CB Carlos Rogers UFA San Francisco 49ers Free Agent
CB Aaron Ross UFA New York Giants Free Agent
SS Bob Sanders UFA San Diego Chargers Free Agent
SS Bryan Scott UFA Buffalo Bills Free Agent
SS Gerald Sensabaugh UFA Dallas Cowboys Free Agent
CB Donald Strickland UFA New York Jets Free Agent
CB Terrell Thomas UFA New York Giants Free Agent
CB Nate Vasher UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
CB Fabian Washington UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent
CB Dante Wesley UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
CB Byron Westbrook RFA Washington Redskins Free Agent
FS Madieu Williams UFA San Francisco 49ers Free Agent

errand
09-17-2011, 10:56 PM
Name five in the past 20 years

Trent dilfer...

mark rypien..

jeff hostetler...

doug williams.....

brad johnson.

myMind
09-17-2011, 11:22 PM
Brad Johnson not Gannon. Raiders lost.

oops...
At least I got the right game though I guess...

spdirty
09-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Don't disagree per se, but there is also a lot of cons with that approach in that trouble areas can be painted over and never addressed due to the fact that you have a guy that can literally put the team on his back and get those W's, circa 1980's Bronco football.

I guess I don't really like the idea of "covering up" holes. Much prefer to acknowledge those and address them accordingly. Personally, I still just cannot get over the lack of attention the new regime has paid to the DL. It blows my mind, especially since we don't have that Manning type of player to hide it. (insert Tebow fanboi argument here).

Yeah, but the cause of that is simply bad drafting and bad FA moves. I don't think a franchise qb all of a sudden makes teams stupid when it comes to other personnel moves.

You screw up in drafting and FA over a period of years when you have that qb and you have the 2010 Colts. You screw up in drafting and FA over a period of years when you don't have that qb and you have the 2011 Colts.

Nevertheless, we are kind of spinning our wheels in this discussion. I think we can agree that the best and quickest path to a contender is the franchise qb combined with good drafting and FA moves.

Blueflame
09-17-2011, 11:31 PM
and Rich Gannon was and excellent QB with the Raiders

Nonetheless, Gannon's as ringless as Marino.

KipCorrington25
09-18-2011, 12:01 AM
Well Orton sucks that much is certain.

Atwater His Ass
09-18-2011, 01:09 AM
Yeah, but the cause of that is simply bad drafting and bad FA moves.

Just want to comment here that this isn't the cause of the DL situation. It's attributed to the absolute lack of committing any kind of resource to it or any kind of priority being established. My #1 frustration with the current administration.

dsmoot
09-18-2011, 03:06 AM
Which was my point. A real ground threat (TD) but him over the top.

John had three shots without a superior OL and RB and didnt come close. Yeah, he had no shot until he had the horses in front of him and the TD behind him. Dont discount what those guys up front did for TD, it wasnt just the RB.
John at his advanced age would not have won a SB without the likes of Schlereth, Zim, Jones and Nalen in front of him even with TD

dsmoot
09-18-2011, 03:12 AM
Understood. But put a healthy Peyton Manning on this team, and a lot of holes all of a sudden get covered up as we make the playoffs.

Do you disagree?

You are absolutely correct. Putting a QB like Manning in there and you produce wins. However, what you essentially have is Broncos mid to late 80s. A playoff team outmatched by the elite teams with great defenses and OLs. See Parcells Giants and Walsh 49ers.

epicSocialism4tw
09-18-2011, 03:18 AM
Which was my point. A real ground threat (TD) but him over the top.

That wasn't just TD...we had arguably the best OL in NFL history.

Agamemnon
09-18-2011, 03:22 AM
That wasn't just TD...we had arguably the best OL in NFL history.

Who would actually argue that? They were a great line, but come on now...

eddie mac
09-18-2011, 03:35 AM
Whilst the D-Line is bad, the offensive line was worse on Monday and when you play an imobile panic stricken QB behind that, it's a recipe for disaster.

I realise you're not talking about just one game but a better performance from the OL and our beloved QB would've had a win in the column regardless of the defense which actually held out pretty well for the majority of the game.

I actually dont think I've ever been so disappointed in our supposed anchors of that like in Clady and Kuper and they both need to come out and make a statement this Sunday on the field and at least give Orton a chance to fail all by himself.

epicSocialism4tw
09-18-2011, 03:38 AM
Whilst the D-Line is bad, the offensive line was worse on Monday and when you play an imobile panic stricken QB behind that, it's a recipe for disaster.

I realise you're not talking about just one game but a better performance from the OL and our beloved QB would've had a win in the column regardless of the defense which actually held out pretty well for the majority of the game.

I actually dont think I've ever been so disappointed in our supposed anchors of that like in Clady and Kuper and they both need to come out and make a statement this Sunday on the field and at least give Orton a chance to fail all by himself.

Orlando Franklin was bad against Oakland. Real bad.

It will be interesting to see if he gets coached up to not being the worst player on the field this Sunday.

fontaine
09-18-2011, 05:04 AM
The QB position is in focus because we don't have any backups that can come in and improve the OL/DL play. Our depth was already weak before Warren/Thomas got injured and we've got nobody on the bench expect for Hochstein for the OL. That experiment was tried last year as well when he came in and out of the starting lineup.

So while DL/OL issues are legit, there's pretty much nothing the coaches can do about it because we don't have the players.

Whereas with Orton it's pretty clear with every red zone failure, sack, and half assed throw the ball away play, Tebow would give us a better chance in those plays.

It would be different if Orton was able to distribute the ball effectively instead of locking onto Lloyd, release the ball quickly to avoid the pass rush and even occasionally be willing to take a hit in the pocket to complete a pass (stuff he was doing last year).

But he's not. So one of the few players that can come in and improve the offense is Tebow. Just like fans will be expecting D Thomas, DJ to come and do their job when they're healthy.

Jay3
09-18-2011, 05:33 AM
He wasn't big or physical. Not sure where you got that. Dude was 210 lbs.

Well I didn't have my eye on the weight charts. He ran the single wing for Delaware and was a 6'3" running quarterback. He was pretty punishing on the teams Delaware played from what I've heard. Don't know what his playing weight was, but in seems like every position used to weigh less in the past.

It doesn't affect the point I was making about Gannon looking for a shot after coming out of a running offense.

2KBack
09-18-2011, 07:10 AM
Name five in the past 20 years

The Focus is often on Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson...but...

Eli Manning isn't a franchise guy (76 rating in 2007, 20ints)

Guys like Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien weren't supertars

and while they developed into more...I'm hard pressed to call Big Ben in 2005 or Brady in 2001 franchise guys at the time....they rode defense and game management to championships (although is did take some clutch drives on Brady's part)

The real question is, find 5 teams ever that won without an elite defense

elsid13
09-18-2011, 07:16 AM
The Focus is often on Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson...but...

Eli Manning isn't a franchise guy (76 rating in 2007, 20ints)

Guys like Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien weren't supertars

and while they developed into more...I'm hard pressed to call Big Ben in 2005 or Brady in 2001 franchise guys at the time....they rode defense and game management to championships (although is did take some clutch drives on Brady's part)

The real question is, find 5 teams ever that won without an elite defense

All were playing good team defense, but I wouldn't consider any of the following "elite" defenses.

1. St. Louis
2. Indy
3. New Orleans
4. Denver
5. NE

DrFate
09-18-2011, 07:31 AM
The Focus is often on Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson...but...

Eli Manning isn't a franchise guy (76 rating in 2007, 20ints)

Guys like Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien weren't supertars


I'll give you rep for the names, but you really slipped Hostetler in under the 20 year limit :)

DrFate
09-18-2011, 07:33 AM
Super Bowl 25. Jeff Hostetler (Ottis Anderson), 1 TD
Super Bowl 26. Mark Rypien (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 27. Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs
Super Bowl 28. Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs
Super Bowl 29. Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs
Super Bowl 30. Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD
Super Bowl 31. Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs

The bulk of these QBs are top notch guys - I don't think you can downplay that, especially when you consider the passing game is more important NOW than it was in 91. Would you agree?

elsid13
09-18-2011, 08:09 AM
People forget that Skins team of 91 (lead by Rypien) was/is consider one of the greatest offense teams of all time. Rypien didn't have long term HOF success, but that season he and the rest of the offense were special.

errand
09-18-2011, 08:16 AM
perfect example: 2010 panthers.

which is weird to me, with their RBs, oline, dline, LBs, how did they suck so bad? could fox really not gameplan around a TERRIBLE qb?

It's not that john fox could not make a game plan for a poor quarterback... it is that his poor quarterback could not execute the game plan properly

errand
09-18-2011, 08:29 AM
The QB position is in focus because we don't have any backups that can come in and improve the OL/DL play. Our depth was already weak before Warren/Thomas got injured and we've got nobody on the bench expect for Hochstein for the OL. That experiment was tried last year as well when he came in and out of the starting lineup.

So while DL/OL issues are legit, there's pretty much nothing the coaches can do about it because we don't have the players.

Whereas with Orton it's pretty clear with every red zone failure, sack, and half assed throw the ball away play, Tebow would give us a better chance in those plays.

It would be different if Orton was able to distribute the ball effectively instead of locking onto Lloyd, release the ball quickly to avoid the pass rush and even occasionally be willing to take a hit in the pocket to complete a pass (stuff he was doing last year).

But he's not. So one of the few players that can come in and improve the offense is Tebow. Just like fans will be expecting D Thomas, DJ to come and do their job when they're healthy.

With all the bad players we have on the team is just amazing that there's only 1 billboard that they want to go up and they wanna to get rid of the quarterback.....

As for your argument that ortons only locks on to brandon loyd........ he completed a pass to 9 different broncos last week

TheReverend
09-18-2011, 08:44 AM
It's not that john fox could not make a game plan for a poor quarterback... it is that his poor quarterback could not execute the game plan properly

http://media.nj.com/jets_impact/photo/8991905-large.jpg

???

oubronco
09-18-2011, 09:32 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2011/0917/20110917_115215_broncos-illustration_300.jpg (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18920831)

2KBack
09-18-2011, 09:36 AM
I'll give you rep for the names, but you really slipped Hostetler in under the 20 year limit :)

yeah....but we are only like 1 game into the 21st season :). My personal point is that QB still gets far too much blame and credit. There are maybe a handful of QB's ever that could win a championship without a very good to great team around them. We saw that with Elway.

This discussion was had a lot when Cutler was drafted. Half of us were pissed because we wanted to solidify the team, the other half wanted a "franchise QB."

Cito Pelon
09-18-2011, 09:41 AM
It's true Denver has a lot of problems other than QB.

I'm seeing the same thing (after only one game, so we'll see if the pattern hold true) that I've seen from the Broncos for a long time now, on every play there's 3-4 guys that don't execute their assignment. And there isn't enough playmakers to cover that up, of the other 7-8 guys there's only a couple that consistently make great plays.

The Broncs are already minus-2 for turnover ratio, and I'd say behind in clutch plays also.

But, like I say every year, maybe some of the young guys can step up. There's a few youngsters starting or role playing at playmaking positions - Rahim, Von, Cassius, Decker, Julius. Maybe we'll see them make some big plays. Like people have said, the OL youngsters (Franklin, Beadles, Walton) have to step up to solidify the trench play, and I'd like to see Ayers make some plays. And maybe some of the other rookies can step in as the season goes on - Carter, Irving, Virgil.

OrangeSe7en
09-18-2011, 10:03 AM
Who would actually argue that? They were a great line, but come on now...

It actually might be true.

errand
09-18-2011, 10:20 AM
http://media.nj.com/jets_impact/photo/8991905-large.jpg

???

Nice picture of a bad snap.......

I didn't realize that john fox was our head coach when we played the jets last season.

You know you sure are ******* stupid.....

But you have an agenda..

bombay
09-18-2011, 10:27 AM
There is no QB controversy. It would be nice to slow down the run though.

2KBack
09-21-2011, 07:05 AM
All were playing good team defense, but I wouldn't consider any of the following "elite" defenses.

1. St. Louis
2. Indy
3. New Orleans
4. Denver
5. NE

Sorry I missed this because this proves my point that people often aren't paying attention.

Indy and NO both had very hot or cold defenses, so you could write them off as not elite. That said you are 100% wrong on St. Louis (15 pts per game in 1999), NE (17,15,16 pts per game). Even Denver's team had a completely underrated defense (6th in pts allowed in 1997, 8th in 1998).