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bfoflcommish
09-15-2011, 01:51 PM
was just posted on his twitter

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, I’d have been outta here after my first start!


https://twitter.com/#!/johnelway

DrFate
09-15-2011, 01:52 PM
Too bad Orton is being evaluated on years of play rather than one game...

Stagger Lee
09-15-2011, 01:53 PM
Hey John, Kyle is 5-19 in his last 24 starts. Can we base the decision on that? Please?

24champ
09-15-2011, 01:53 PM
Too bad Orton is being evaluated on years of play rather than one game...

This.

Nice try Johnnie.

vonqkilla
09-15-2011, 01:53 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-tebowstake

Perfect, no tebow package anymore.

Great. We should just play 10 on offense.

Luck here we come.

Crushaholic
09-15-2011, 01:53 PM
This wasn't Orton's first start, John...:rofl:

jebures
09-15-2011, 01:54 PM
was just posted on his twitter

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!

Its not orton's first week this is 2 years and 1 week of his bull$hit.

jhns
09-15-2011, 01:54 PM
Too bad Orton is being evaluated on years of play rather than one game...

Yeah, it is really weird that this one game defense is being used for a seven year vet. I expected it from dumb fans and analysts, not from Elway.

Maybe they are saying they haven't watched any tape on Orton? This would at least explain why he is starting.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 01:54 PM
Really John? Really? You think we're mad about one game? Jesus Christ...

It's a good thing you didn't need to be a perfect pocket passer to get on the field, or you probably never would have.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-tebowstake

Perfect, no tebow package anymore.


I tried to explain to some on this board that there was no way Orton would get yanked once they got to the goalline and Tebow inserted. This isn't surprising to me at all (but is quite disappointing)

WolfpackGuy
09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
Too bad Orton is being evaluated on years of play rather than one game...

All too true.

Elway's statement might've made sense had Bore-ton been a prized rookie.

PRBronco
09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
Yeah invalid point, but I appreciate the attempt at lols from him. I'd appreciate him making winning his top priority more though.

maven
09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
wtf is up with this organization. Didn't John Fox say "the previous regime started him" yesterday.

lol clowns everywhere

TDmvp
09-15-2011, 01:56 PM
All too true.

Elway's statement might've made sense had Bore-ton been a prized rookie.

Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 01:57 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-tebowstake

Perfect, no tebow package anymore.

Great. We should just play 10 on offense.

Luck here we come.

Don't do **** that is proven to work. Just do **** that is proven not to. Apparently this is Fox's coaching philosophy. Can you say Championship?

Dr. Broncenstein
09-15-2011, 02:03 PM
Bertstare

Steve Sewell
09-15-2011, 02:04 PM
John...you're the man, but Orton's performance on Monday night was a microcosm of his play during his 2 years here in Denver. We're not that stupid.

KO5K
09-15-2011, 02:04 PM
If decisions were made based on one week, I’d have been outta here after my first start!

True. But if decisions were made on relevant credentials, you wouldn't have had a job in the first place.

Bronco Yoda
09-15-2011, 02:05 PM
was just posted on his twitter

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!


https://twitter.com/#!/johnelway


If you look closely at John's twitter photo under black light you'll notice a phrase in watermark.

!kcul rof kcus...!kcul rof kcus...!kcul rof kcus...

Someone must and will break this code one of these days.:P

dbfan21
09-15-2011, 02:05 PM
Hey John, Kyle is 5-19 in his last 24 starts. Can we base the decision on that? Please?

THIS!

bronco militia
09-15-2011, 02:06 PM
thank god for twitter.....:face palm:

Dr. Broncenstein
09-15-2011, 02:09 PM
It's going to be a long 8 or so weeks before Tebow's escalators are negated.

OBF1
09-15-2011, 02:11 PM
I never expected much from the 2011 Bronco season..... With orton starting, I expect even less. I will watch football, but look froward to another high draft pick. Hopefully there is a top rated DT available to us.

vonqkilla
09-15-2011, 02:17 PM
I never expected much from the 2011 Bronco season..... With orton starting, I expect even less. I will watch football, but look froward to another high draft pick. Hopefully there is a top rated DT available to us.

Hopefully the team #1 overall was stupid enough to draft qb last year so we can trade up!!!


kcul rof ckus

Gort
09-15-2011, 02:17 PM
Bertstare

i see your Bertstare and raise you a Shannystare

broncocalijohn
09-15-2011, 02:20 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-tebowstake

Perfect, no tebow package anymore.

Great. We should just play 10 on offense.

Luck here we come.

"Tebow said the Broncos don’t have a specific package of plays designed to capitalize on his skills like they did last year, when he came in occasionally on short-yardage situations before starting the last three games."

My hope of having Prater kicking 19 yard point afters just changed to 29 yard 3 point field goals. Same OL, pretty much same RBs (Moreno) and same QB. Not sure what his plan is on improving inside the 20 from last year.
I tried to explain to some on this board that there was no way Orton would get yanked once they got to the goalline and Tebow inserted. This isn't surprising to me at all (but is quite disappointing)

I didnt think first game or so but whole season? ****!

Steve Sewell
09-15-2011, 02:21 PM
i see your Bertstare and raise you a Shannystare

Beat THIS:

http://naturallyalise.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Care-Bear-Stare.jpg

Gort
09-15-2011, 02:22 PM
Beat THIS:

http://naturallyalise.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Care-Bear-Stare.jpg

too rich for my blood. i fold.

Black96WS6
09-15-2011, 02:25 PM
Wow not even a red-zone package???

That's shocking. That says to me that Fox has ZERO plans for Tebow seeing the field.

I mean come on, even Minnesota brought out the wildcat with Joe Webb a few times to see if it would work against the Chargers last weekend. It didn't, but at least they TRIED it to see how it would go. Fox is not even doing that!

You would think that would lend to Tebow's strength's too, sort of a Ben R type of QB that can use his strength\mobility to buy time, etc, until someone can get open (or run it in himself...)

maven
09-15-2011, 02:33 PM
johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!



http://i45.tinypic.com/9a5nxs.jpg

Bronco Vixen
09-15-2011, 02:35 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-tebowstake

Perfect, no tebow package anymore.

Great. We should just play 10 on offense.

Luck here we come.

Wow. Just wow. And how do the FO apologists explain this one? I guess it's because of all of our red zone success just dropping the human glacier back in the pocket to find the open man, since the field is so wide open with 10 -15 yards to work with. No misdirection plays, no roll-outs, and god forbid we capitalize on Tebow's unique skill set down there. How on earth does this make sense?

And this:

was just posted on his twitter

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!


https://twitter.com/#!/johnelway

Bertstare times a billion!

ColoradoDarin
09-15-2011, 02:52 PM
Between this tweet and the Fox comments about the previous regime not starting Tebow makes me believe that the BBT thinks we're effing stupid.

PS John, you make it worse not better with every statement like that.

DenverBroncosJM
09-15-2011, 02:54 PM
god forbid we lose to Cincy can you imagine the next home game....

theAPAOps5
09-15-2011, 02:54 PM
If things continue to suck things and tunes will change.

Inkana7
09-15-2011, 03:10 PM
BURN HIM TOO

GoHAM
09-15-2011, 03:12 PM
It's going to be a long 8 or so weeks before Tebow's escalators are negated.

Sad but true. I'll be shocked if Tebow sees the field before week 9.

Requiem
09-15-2011, 03:12 PM
Does John think the fans are stupid or something?

Can we respond to that tweet and will he read it?

swaiy
09-15-2011, 03:13 PM
At least we have the most sophisticated running game in practice.

Also we will bounce back. Orton has a mastery of the offense...





during 7-on-7's

bfoflcommish
09-15-2011, 03:15 PM
Does John think the fans are stupid or something?

Can we respond to that tweet and will he read it?

you can respond sure, will he read it who knows.

Jay3
09-15-2011, 03:18 PM
i see your Bertstare and raise you a Shannystare

I meet you with a Muschamp Stare.

http://i.imgur.com/j4Hwc.jpg

ghwk
09-15-2011, 03:26 PM
See the big picture John, see the BIG picture....

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 03:28 PM
Between this tweet and the Fox comments about the previous regime not starting Tebow makes me believe that the BBT thinks we're effing stupid.

PS John, you make it worse not better with every statement like that.

Between this tweet and the Fox comments about the previous regime not starting Tebow makes me believe that the BBT is effing stupid.

Ironlung
09-15-2011, 03:31 PM
ridicules

broncos-rock
09-15-2011, 03:41 PM
I remember John being benched in his 1st season but at least he got the chance. WE WANT TEBLOW!

ghwk
09-15-2011, 03:43 PM
Until Tebow lines up behind the guard I say get him in. Wait didn't he do that already?

DontBeMessin
09-15-2011, 03:49 PM
Why do you blame Orton standing behing THAT offensive line? I could care less if you have a 23 year old Dan Marino behind that line.... It's not Orton's fault!!!

It's your ****ty O-Line!!!

swaiy
09-15-2011, 03:53 PM
Why do you blame Orton standing behing THAT offensive line? I could care less if you have a 23 year old Dan Marino behind that line.... It's not Orton's fault!!!

It's your ****ty O-Line!!!

The O-line does suck. Too bad you don't realize the irony behind saying that.


What it boils down to is: the O-line sucking is not a legitimate excuse for any QB other than Eeyore.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 03:53 PM
Why do you blame Orton standing behing THAT offensive line? I could care less if you have a 23 year old Dan Marino behind that line.... It's not Orton's fault!!!

It's your ****ty O-Line!!!

That fumble that cost the game took place when he had plenty of protection. So did the stupid interception that killed another drive that was about to score points. The excuses are getting old. Orton just sucks.

PRBronco
09-15-2011, 03:55 PM
Why do you blame Orton standing behing THAT offensive line? I could care less if you have a 23 year old Dan Marino behind that line.... It's not Orton's fault!!!

It's your ****ty O-Line!!!

Raiders trolls want us to play Orton. That should pretty much put everyone here on the same page.

DBroncos4life
09-15-2011, 03:57 PM
I don'tk now how you keep any faith in this FO period. I always thought the best thing to do was develop Tebow. Now I'm losing faith that we can even do that right.

broncos-rock
09-15-2011, 03:58 PM
Why do you blame Orton standing behing THAT offensive line? I could care less if you have a 23 year old Dan Marino behind that line.... It's not Orton's fault!!!

It's your ****ty O-Line!!!

When you stick your hand out and the guy falls down that just is inexcusable play for any qb even pop werner.

Lestat
09-15-2011, 03:59 PM
well to be fair to Elway, it's Orton's first start under a new regime and with a new offense.

but to be fair to us, he's had enough time and game tape to prove he isn't the QB for this team. problem is, we don't have anyone better on the roster right now.

swaiy
09-15-2011, 04:03 PM
well to be fair to Elway, it's Orton's first start under a new regime and with a new offense.

but to be fair to us, he's had enough time and game tape to prove he isn't the QB for this team. problem is, we don't have anyone better on the roster right now.

New offense? No.

This is the same offense we already had.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 04:06 PM
well to be fair to Elway, it's Orton's first start under a new regime and with a new offense.

but to be fair to us, he's had enough time and game tape to prove he isn't the QB for this team. problem is, we don't have anyone better on the roster right now.

After watching Tebow last season and Orton last season and on Monday I really don't understand how people say this kind of **** with a straight face.

Garcia Bronco
09-15-2011, 04:12 PM
John Elway isn't spinning anything. He looks at as a new start for the entire program.

Dagmar
09-15-2011, 04:29 PM
Hey John, Kyle is 5-19 in his last 24 starts. Can we base the decision on that? Please?

Tweeted back to him.

go_broncos
09-15-2011, 04:32 PM
To Fox &Elway - Please don't give stupid statements.
I am slowly recovering from last week's loss.
After reading your statements, I am depressed.

If you want to start Orton..Fine with me.
But, don't give idiotic statements. We are not stupid.

Any way..you will realize why we don't want Orton.
Till then..just live in your imaginary world.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 04:33 PM
John Elway isn't spinning anything. He looks at as a new start for the entire program.

I really hope he's not that delusional...

Dr. Broncenstein
09-15-2011, 04:39 PM
Dear John,

You were a GD rookie.

Your pal,

Doc B.

maher_tyler
09-15-2011, 04:44 PM
Gonna try to get my hat autographed by Luck this Saturday...honestly, there is no other reason to play Orton other than for draft position!

ghwk
09-15-2011, 04:45 PM
To Fox &Elway - Please don't give stupid statements.
I am slowly recovering from last week's loss.
After reading your statements, I am depressed.

If you want to start Orton..Fine with me.
But, don't give idiotic statements. We are not stupid.

Any way..you will realize why we don't want Orton.
Till then..just live in your imaginary world.

Why didn't you just tell him to suck your d**k instead? I get a message like that and I''d tell you to F**K off! :rofl:

2KBack
09-15-2011, 04:46 PM
John Elway isn't spinning anything. He looks at as a new start for the entire program.

Which is probably a good perspective to take

jhns
09-15-2011, 04:51 PM
John Elway isn't spinning anything. He looks at as a new start for the entire program.

That is a spin.

Bronx33
09-15-2011, 04:56 PM
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4867/chrchladystare.jpg

Church lady stare owns all!!!!!

maher_tyler
09-15-2011, 05:03 PM
To Fox &Elway - Please don't give stupid statements.
I am slowly recovering from last week's loss.
After reading your statements, I am depressed.

If you want to start Orton..Fine with me.
But, don't give idiotic statements. We are not stupid.

Any way..you will realize why we don't want Orton.
Till then..just live in your imaginary world.

Thee guys on ESPN and NFLN are all saying the same thing..all sticking up for Orton. Keyshawn said Orton didn't lose us the game. Maybe not but he sure as hell handed'em 10 points. I understand our oline sucks but even when he had time he **** the bed. Bronco fans have watched this **** for 2 years and a game. It's still the same old **** as its always been. We want a change..NOW!

Doggcow
09-15-2011, 05:05 PM
I'm offended that elway would treat me like I'm a child or something.

Garcia Bronco
09-15-2011, 05:07 PM
Good grief people, he's not specifically talking about Kyle Orton.

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 05:09 PM
Good grief people, he's not specifically talking about Kyle Orton.

....... ::)

Rigs11
09-15-2011, 05:12 PM
John must be retarded like Lloyd

swaiy
09-15-2011, 05:18 PM
Good grief people, he's not specifically talking about Kyle Orton.

What else could he be talking about? lol

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 05:18 PM
John must be retarded like Lloyd

Not nearly the body of evidence, but that quote sure as hell is.

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 05:19 PM
What else could he be talking about? lol

The play of the rest of the team, of the new regime, etc

...but he's not. He's talking about Kyle.

SoCalBronco
09-15-2011, 05:24 PM
I'm offended that elway would treat me like I'm a child or something.

You should have been offended a long time ago, because the Broncos are making it a common practice to treat fans like that. This has been the case for awhile, now.

"There are no problems here....I signed John Elway, look over here at this nice, shiny object, see all our problems are resolved, he'll be a great GM, now be quiet and stop biatching about the team, its John Elway, all is well".

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 05:26 PM
You should have been offended a long time ago, because the Broncos are making it a common practice to treat fans like that. This has been the case for awhile, now.

"There are no problems here....I signed John Elway, look over here at this nice, shiny object, see all our problems are resolved, he'll be a great GM, now be quiet and stop biatching about the team, its John Elway, all is well".

"He may have made the pro bowl en route to breaking franchise records and shown up in his off-season to get a jump start on the new system with the new first-time head coach, but DAMN IT HE'S A DIABETIC THAT DRINKS!"

Archer81
09-15-2011, 05:33 PM
Why do you blame Orton standing behing THAT offensive line? I could care less if you have a 23 year old Dan Marino behind that line.... It's not Orton's fault!!!

It's your ****ty O-Line!!!


Uh huh.

And Im sure if Denver had a QB capable of 1. beating the blitz and 2. getting out of the way of pass rushers the result would have been exactly the same.

:Broncos:

Raider Bill
09-15-2011, 05:51 PM
Elway next Millen

eddie mac
09-15-2011, 06:55 PM
Why do you blame Orton standing behing THAT offensive line? I could care less if you have a 23 year old Dan Marino behind that line.... It's not Orton's fault!!!

It's your ****ty O-Line!!!

The O-Line is definitely part of the problem but it's the entire package from the linemen to the quarterback to the **** running backs. The whole package is pityful at present and aside from Franklin it hasn't been touched in this draft or free agency which doesn't really bode too well for next season either.

It's far too easy for fans to blame the QB and him alone. Fox looks like an absolute dick after his training camp comments regarding our running game and the production they served up on Monday night.

We went from a decent top 15 OL a couple of years back to one of the worst in the league after Clady and Harris had the injuries and McD destroyed the internal line with the horrible picks of Walton and Beadles. How Fox couldn't see a FA or 2 better than them this offseason is beyond me, or then again maybe he did and the $5m kitty Bowlen gave him wouldn't stretch that far.LOL

Dont get me started on Moreno either. In over a decade of drafting Shanahan and his team produced numerous productive backs without ever utilising that precious 1st rd pick on one. What a ****ing waste that was and yet another banker in the history of McCantDraft.

broncos-rock
09-15-2011, 07:18 PM
Al Davis next
http://www.hellhappens.com/satan-3-by-jack-chick.gif

uplink
09-15-2011, 08:31 PM
A twitter response after only one game, the Tebow pressure is going to crush EFX. I think McD was fired in season, instead of after, due to fan pressure last year. It has a big impact. Only Orton can stop it by playing well.

DENVERDUI55
09-15-2011, 08:40 PM
Elway says jack on the rocks please and two pitchers of beer please.

HAT
09-15-2011, 09:01 PM
was just posted on his twitter

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!


https://twitter.com/#!/johnelway

4 pages and not one person has read between the lines?

All he is saying is you're a dumb **** if you think they're making a move after week ONE.

The tweet may as well have been....."Relax, idiots. If we don't turn it around FAST, Tebow's getting thrown to the wolves after week 5"

Or:

Based on 1 week...."No"
Based on 2 weeks...."Still no"
Based on 3 weeks...."**** no we aren't starting Tebow vs. GB"
Based on 4 weeks...."If we're 0-4 then MAYBE we make the switch and Let Tebow roll at home vs. SD....But really, we'll still probably throw Orton out there and give Tebow 2 weeks with the 1st team to get ready for his coming out party IN Florida"

He just couldn't fit all that in 140 characters or less....Elway is playing y'all like a fiddle.

gunns
09-15-2011, 09:24 PM
Don't do **** that is proven to work. Just do **** that is proven not to. Apparently this is Fox's coaching philosophy. Can you say Championship?

While I'll agree about just doing **** that is proven not to, there isn't anything on this team that is proven to work yet at this position, unfortunately. Start Tebow, let's see what's there. It'll at least stop this QB controversy that has gotten staler than Shanahan defenses.

Orange4Life
09-15-2011, 09:47 PM
I never thought my boyhood idol John Elway would kick me in the balls and tell me I'm stupid

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 09:50 PM
While I'll agree about just doing **** that is proven not to, there isn't anything on this team that is proven to work yet at this position, unfortunately. Start Tebow, let's see what's there. It'll at least stop this QB controversy that has gotten staler than Shanahan defenses.

My quote was specifically referencing the Tebow redzone package. That is actually one of the few things on our offense that has been proven to work. And they aren't using it. At all.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 09:51 PM
Elway next Millen

Unfortunately I have this feeling you are right...

HAT
09-15-2011, 09:51 PM
I never thought my boyhood idol John Elway would kick me in the balls and tell me I'm stupid

He didn't. He massaged them and told you you were stupid because you didn't know it was foreplay.

Dagmar
09-15-2011, 10:24 PM
4 pages and not one person has read between the lines?

All he is saying is you're a dumb **** if you think they're making a move after week ONE.

The tweet may as well have been....."Relax, idiots. If we don't turn it around FAST, Tebow's getting thrown to the wolves after week 5"

Or:

Based on 1 week...."No"
Based on 2 weeks...."Still no"
Based on 3 weeks...."**** no we aren't starting Tebow vs. GB"
Based on 4 weeks...."If we're 0-4 then MAYBE we make the switch and Let Tebow roll at home vs. SD....But really, we'll still probably throw Orton out there and give Tebow 2 weeks with the 1st team to get ready for his coming out party IN Florida"

He just couldn't fit all that in 140 characters or less....Elway is playing y'all like a fiddle.

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1623026_o.gif

broncocalijohn
09-15-2011, 10:28 PM
I never thought my boyhood idol John Elway would kick me in the balls and tell me I'm stupid

Would it be easier if we all just tell you for him? :thanku:

Jake, you are at your most active here when it involves a QB. From Jake (HOF thread) to now Orton vs Tebow.

Broncos4Life
09-15-2011, 11:57 PM
Here is how Tebow gets on field:
Orton continues to start and blows big time, like Oakland loss.
Fans stop showing up for gams like last year. Only this year I think that it will happen sooner. The boos and billboard alone won't do anything. Just stop showing up on gameday. If some of you guys can get like 10 to 20k or so to stop showing coupled with the boos and a billboard, then the switch will probly be made.

I have a feeling with all the BS coming out of Elway and Fox mouths that we truly are headed for the Luck of the draft. No doubt about it. This whole organization just really stinks right now. Even with a win on Sunday, I will not be too impressed, as history shows, Broncos don't beat teams that are at same level or worse, very often playing down to them. throw in Bore-ton, and we have recipe for loss.

Agamemnon
09-16-2011, 12:31 AM
Here is how Tebow gets on field:
Orton continues to start and blows big time, like Oakland loss.
Fans stop showing up for gams like last year. Only this year I think that it will happen sooner. The boos and billboard alone won't do anything. Just stop showing up on gameday. If some of you guys can get like 10 to 20k or so to stop showing coupled with the boos and a billboard, then the switch will probly be made.

I have a feeling with all the BS coming out of Elway and Fox mouths that we truly are headed for the Luck of the draft. No doubt about it. This whole organization just really stinks right now. Even with a win on Sunday, I will not be too impressed, as history shows, Broncos don't beat teams that are at same level or worse, very often playing down to them. throw in Bore-ton, and we have recipe for loss.

If they really are thinking of drafting Luck that means they are either intentionally tanking the season or they plan on trading away an entire draft to get him. Do you really believe that?

Broncos4Life
09-16-2011, 01:06 AM
If they really are thinking of drafting Luck that means they are either intentionally tanking the season or they plan on trading away an entire draft to get him. Do you really believe that?

I don't want to, but with all the crap with Elway's tweets and Fox's comments, along with the fact that Orton has a losing history and like someone else said, Monday night being a microcosim of his entire play, its really hard to ignore. I would never think a team would purposely try to tank a season, but FE are not giving me a lot of reasons to think otherwise...

I used to go out to the bars to watch the Broncos play. I will no longer spend money to watch the trash being put out on the field. I'll stay home, watch online, or just highlghts, or lowlights as we are begining to get used to around here.

Everyone is quick to point out that its week 1. Well, other than last years last 3 games, it looks like last years product. As much as I came away impressed by a few things on defense, its still offense that will win games for us. For now anyway.

Whole thing just makes me sick....

Atwater His Ass
09-16-2011, 01:29 AM
The fact that the front office didn't build around a guy like Tebow with coaching and personnel speaks volumes. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are "suck for Luck", but Obviously Tebow isn't their guy either. Which is disappointing. Would have been exciting to have hired a coach to groom Tebow and start to build a team around him. Instead looks like we are going to piss that away, let Orton walk next year, and try to find the future QB then. All the while having a horrible OL and DL which means we will have to be frugal with our picks or do a lot of trading down to get more, which means unless we are at #1, we won't be going for Luck.

I thought I was depressed when Bowlen fired Shanahan, then living through McD trading away Cutler and Marshall and then preceeding to blow up this organization...but ****, this feels worse that there seems to be no plan in place....same **** different day.

alkemical
09-16-2011, 05:52 AM
Between this tweet and the Fox comments about the previous regime not starting Tebow makes me believe that the BBT is effing stupid.

I HOPE that this is what they're saying publically while they are getting Luck's jersey ready for draft day. Really, if it's anything other than sauced - i would be this sad:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScZO4mORrqdP0Vm34s43P9ts8z3-qcF_LiVX1_LprZ2df9xUluQQ

alkemical
09-16-2011, 05:55 AM
Gonna try to get my hat autographed by Luck this Saturday...honestly, there is no other reason to play Orton other than for draft position!


I really hope this is how i'm supposed to translate:

"Orton gives us our best chance to win"

Orton gives us our best chance to draft Luck.

Blueflame
09-16-2011, 06:11 AM
Would it be easier if we all just tell you for him? :thanku:

Jake, you are at your most active here when it involves a QB. From Jake (HOF thread) to now Orton vs Tebow.

Um... we have 2 posters with similar usernames: "Orange4Life" (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=1023) and "orange 4 life" (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=1614). The guy you quoted here isn't Jake..... :)

oubronco
09-16-2011, 06:15 AM
Hilarious! It is only week 2

alkemical
09-16-2011, 06:16 AM
...i'm done with sergio....

DrFate
09-16-2011, 07:15 AM
He just couldn't fit all that in 140 characters or less....Elway is playing y'all like a fiddle.

He needs to hire the same PR firm that he hires for Orton

Does this fit in 140 characters?

"The team played poorly, once we start winning the fans will support the team again"

AlphaSeirra
09-16-2011, 07:52 AM
Its not orton's first week this is 2 years and 1 week of his bull$hit.

Sorry, but I feel a MAJOR RANT coming on.... :angel:
(feel free to skip right over my post, afterall, they are JMOHO's)

(Tim putting the 'Team' ahead of reality, imoho)
Tebow backs Orton amid Bronco fans calls for QB change.
Tebow said Thursday that while he's honored his fans are cheering for him to take over as the Denver Broncos' quarterback,
he trusts his coach and will bide his time without complaint.
Anywho,,, so much for Tebow being an impatient crybaby.....
===============

-- A perfect example of yet another ignorant media moron (Sporting News) statement. My question is, are the majority of media morons
TOTAL LIARS, or are they just THIS STUPID??? -- AS

"Tebow never came close to beating out Orton this (lockout shortened) summer and was even outplayed by Brady Quinn.
Quinn in all likelihood would go in if Orton were to get hurt, so when Tebow plays is anybody's guess."

-- Apparently a lockout summer practice session now means more than 4 actual preseason games -- AS

The Actual 2011 Preseason Bronco QB stats and RATINGS:

3. Brady Quinn - 22 of 42 (52.4%) for 276 yds (6.6 ypa) 2 TD's, 2 Ints, Long 26 yds, QB Rating 69.1

2. Kyle Orton - 28 of 42 (66.7%) for 408 yds, (9.7 ypa) 2 TD's, 1 Int, Long 42 yds, QB Rating 104.1

1. Tim Tebow - 20 of 31 (64.5%) for 310 yds, (10.0 ypa) 1 TD, 0 Int, Long 43 yds, QB Rating 108.3 <---<<<

So Tim wins the NFL QB Passer Rating race over 5th year Vet Quinn and 8th year Vet Orton,,, EVEN in a lockout offseason and little or
no work with the 1st team offense.
* And he has a higher NFL QB Rating than the last two #1 draft picks to boot.

Plus, that's before you add in his 8, 2011 preseason carries for 56 yds, 6.9 ypc, Long 19 yds.
Notice that he continues leading ALL Bronco runners in Yards per Carry.

BTW - Tim went 7 of 11 (63.5%) for 116 yds, 16.5 ypr in the last 2011 preseason game while scoring Denver's ONLY TD.
Scam Newton Panthers Preseason Totals: 24 of 57 (42.1%) with one TD, which was apparently enough to 'earn' him the starting job
over Fox's last QB draft pick, the Interception Machine Jimmy da Pickle.

Orton's W/L is now 11-18 (28%) in his last 29 games as the Broncos' starter,,, as it continues falling.
Orton just went 24-of-46 (52.2%) for 304 yards and 1 TD, 1 Int, 1 fumble, and 5 sacks against the Raiders.
* Sack Note: In the final 3 games of last season, Tebow was only sacked a total of 6 times for 4.25 yds/sack.
=====================


Hall of Famer John Elway, now the Broncos' chief of football operations, chimed in Thursday, tweeting,
"If decisions were made based on one week, I'd have been outta here after my first start!"
That was on Sept. 4, 1983, at Pittsburgh, where Elway was just 1 for 8 for 14 yards with 1 Int and 4 sacks.

That's right John, and they kept playing you until you finally-eventually got better. Maybe they should have let you 'try to learn' while sitting on the bench like Tebow, since you seem to believe that's the way it should be done. ;)
Apparently, the current Bronco Management can't make good decisions, even after 3, 2010 regular season games:

2010 NFL Rookie QB Passer Ratings:

1. Tebow -- 82.1 - 5 TD's to 3 Ints, Ratio 1.64 to 1. (3 starts, 5 TD's)

2. Bradford 76.5 - 18 TD's to 15 Int's, Ratio 1.2 to 1.
3. McCoy - 74.5 - 6 TD's to 9 Int's, Ratio .64 to 1.
4. Fox's Clausen 58.4 - 3 TD's to 9 Int's, Ratio .33 to 1. (10 starts, 3 TD's)
* Quinn - 56.8 in his rookie year 07 - only a 66.8 for his 3 yr NFL career.

>>> 2010 Tebow - Total Offense = 881 Yds, 10.5 yds/play, 11 TD's, 3 Ints, 0 lost poss fumbles. <<<

Plus 4, 2011 preseason games:

Tebow Preseason - 20 of 31 (64.5%) for 310 yds, (10.0 ypa) 1 TD, 0 Int, Long 43 yds, QB RATING - 108.3

The best Bronco overall QB Rating at 108.3

The best Bronco Yds per Attempt Passing at 10.0 ypa.

The longest Bronco pass completion at 43 yds.

The ONLY Bronco QB that threw ZERO interceptions. :thumbs:

PLUS -- The best YPC of the entire Bronco team at 6.9 ypc. !Booya!

All of that CLEARLY shows that Tebow is not ( :notready: ) ready to be an NFL starter......

Elway's 1st Bronco start: 1 for 8 for 14 yds with an Int and 4 sacks. (but he still continued as the starter)

Tebow's 1st Bronco start: 8 of 16 for 138 yds, 17.25 yds/comp, 1 TD and ZERO Ints, with a 100.5 QB Rating. That was also the BEST rookie 1st start QB rating for 2010, NOBODY else had a 100 rating. :strong:
================

"Still, Orton has the support of the only man who matters Fox." Sporting News
(Apparently this writer doesn't believe that Elway's support or opinion matters?)

-- Fox is the same genius coach that drafted Jimmy 'da pickle' Clausen last season, who eventually got benched for
throwing 3 TD's to 9 Ints, resulting in Fox finally getting FIRED from Carolina.... -- AS

McD's draft pick, Tebow had 5 passing TD's to only 3 Ints, in 9 GP with only 3 starts.

So Bowlen/Elway rush right out to hire this foxy 50/50 W/L genius????

Fox's Clausen only had 3 TD's in his 9 starts, plus 9 Ints, and that was after working all season with the Panther 1st team.

Is Bowlen now channeling Dan 'the snakeskins' Snyder for his advise before making his hiring decisions?

If, and I say IF, it's about Tebow's contract $$, then the CHEAP bronco BASTARDS :redpunch: don't deserve Tim and really should Trade him away to the Phins, and then go ahead and hire Stanford's ole Lucky, and pray that he's not really another Leaf, putting up overrated stats against those mostly chitty LAC 10 defenses.
====================

The Broncos don't have a specific package of plays right now that are designed to capitalize on Tim's running skills like they had last year, when he went in on short-yardage situations on occasion before starting the last three games of the season. "But if they wanted to dial it up I'm sure we've (practiced) that stuff enough times just to go out there and run it," Tebow said.

[Genius coach says naw, we'd rather lose ugly with our 7th year LOSER Veteran QB (that some still claim gives the Broncos the best (28%) chance to win). To me, it looks like nobody in the Broncos Office/Staff can grow a set and go with the correct QB. If Elway was just starting out here now, as a rookie QB, he'd be on the bench behind Orton, Quinn, and Tebow, if we go by HIS actual QB numbers..... AS]

(no, that's NOT hating on a great Bronco QB, it's just stating the FACTS/STATS on where he came up from as a rookie) :kiss:

Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie while setting a new NFL Rookie QB record for Interceptions. :holyguac!

But the Colts stayed with him, let him start and play EVERY game, and they eventually built a team around his strengths. Evidently the Bronco staff are either to dumb, or to stubborn, or to scared to do the same with a life time winner like Tim Tebow.

TheReverend
09-16-2011, 07:53 AM
...i'm in love with sergio....

I'm DONE with Sergio.
He treats me like a rag-doll.

alkemical
09-16-2011, 07:54 AM
I'm DONE with Sergio.
He treats me like a rag-doll.

Yeah, I just corrected it - Up waaaaayyyy to late. I hate meetings that start @ 5p EST.
Fingers out of sync with brain....

2KBack
09-16-2011, 07:57 AM
Brian Griese's first NFL start
<table data-freeze="5" class="sortable stats_table row_summable" id="stats"><tbody><tr class="" id="stats.2"><td align="right">1</td> <td align="left">1999-09-13 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199909130den.htm)</td> <td align="right">24-179</td> <td align="left">DEN (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/1999.htm)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="left">MIA (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/1999.htm)</td> <td align="left">L 21-38</td> <td align="right">*</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">40</td> <td align="right">60.0%</td> <td align="right">270</td> <td align="right">3</td> <td align="right">0</td> <td align="right">105.2</td></tr></tbody></table>

vonqkilla
09-16-2011, 07:57 AM
That was the best rant of them all alphasierra

Drek
09-16-2011, 08:42 AM
Not surprising at all. Got to keep acting like protecting the old man's wallet is a football decision.

Why did Orton get the starting job when no one else was given a real chance? Because his contract has zero escalators in it for playing time.

Why is Quinn #2? Because his $6M escalator kicks in at 70% of the snaps this season, so if Orton can make it through the first third of the season (through week 6 or so) they're safe that Quinn can't hit his big bump no matter how well he plays.

Why is Tebow #3? Easiest escalators to hit, 50% this year and 50% next year. So he can't be allowed into a game until we're at about week 10. 9 games plus the bye week. You go 9 games just in case we actually do have offensive success and control the ball with Tebow, leading to more offensive snaps per game. Need that extra game of padding to CYA.

Got to protect Patty's money!

BroncoBuff
09-16-2011, 08:49 AM
was just posted on his twitter

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!

https://twitter.com/#!/johnelway

Damn right, John ... them's just cold hard facts raining down in the Valley.

Now if we can get gun-jumping Elway-haters like Agamemnon outta here after one game, that would be real progress.

Tyrell Jones
09-16-2011, 08:50 AM
elway is joke and overrated.:afro:

baja
09-16-2011, 08:54 AM
John Elway seems to insert his foot into his mouth a lot.

PRBronco
09-16-2011, 08:55 AM
elway is joke

In Soviet Russia, forum posts you!

SoCalBronco
09-16-2011, 08:56 AM
Not surprising at all. Got to keep acting like protecting the old man's wallet is a football decision.

Why did Orton get the starting job when no one else was given a real chance? Because his contract has zero escalators in it for playing time.

Why is Quinn #2? Because his $6M escalator kicks in at 70% of the snaps this season, so if Orton can make it through the first third of the season (through week 6 or so) they're safe that Quinn can't hit his big bump no matter how well he plays.

Why is Tebow #3? Easiest escalators to hit, 50% this year and 50% next year. So he can't be allowed into a game until we're at about week 10. 9 games plus the bye week. You go 9 games just in case we actually do have offensive success and control the ball with Tebow, leading to more offensive snaps per game. Need that extra game of padding to CYA.

Got to protect Patty's money!

:thumbsup:

AlphaSeirra
09-16-2011, 08:57 AM
elway is joke and overrated.:afro:

Really???

Is that you Al..... :smashraid


Hilarious!

baja
09-16-2011, 08:59 AM
Not surprising at all. Got to keep acting like protecting the old man's wallet is a football decision.

Why did Orton get the starting job when no one else was given a real chance? Because his contract has zero escalators in it for playing time.

Why is Quinn #2? Because his $6M escalator kicks in at 70% of the snaps this season, so if Orton can make it through the first third of the season (through week 6 or so) they're safe that Quinn can't hit his big bump no matter how well he plays.

Why is Tebow #3? Easiest escalators to hit, 50% this year and 50% next year. So he can't be allowed into a game until we're at about week 10. 9 games plus the bye week. You go 9 games just in case we actually do have offensive success and control the ball with Tebow, leading to more offensive snaps per game. Need that extra game of padding to CYA.

Got to protect Patty's money!

If I really believed this I would move on and find something else to do with my time.

If you believe what you said how can you rationalize sticking around and wasting time on failed ownership and the resulting dysfunctional sports team.

BroncoBuff
09-16-2011, 09:01 AM
Why did Orton get the starting job when no one else was given a real chance? Because his contract has zero escalators in it for playing time.

Why is Tebow #3? Easiest escalators to hit, 50% this year and 50% next year. So he can't be allowed into a game until we're at about week 10. 9 games plus the bye week. You go 9 games just in case we actually do have offensive success and control the ball with Tebow, leading to more offensive snaps per game. Need that extra game of padding to CYA.

That doesn't sound right ... do they usually load up highly-drafted rookie contracts with escalators? If they do, Von and Rahim and Orlando must have Pat shaking even more than usual.

BroncoBuff
09-16-2011, 09:04 AM
That was the best rant of them all alphasierra

One of the best 35th posts I've ever seen.

zdoor
09-16-2011, 09:09 AM
Pretty interesting speculation here:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/the-daily-lard-9-16-11

Dagmar
09-16-2011, 09:14 AM
I had a thought, maybe it's good they won't bench Orton after one game. Imagine if they did, it wouldn't exactly set a precedent that they would get behind for 15 games now would it. He's a rookie kinda still, so he will struggle at times. Then what, Orton after 3 games of Tebow struggling? Quinn?

Let Orton make his bed until the bye week. Then Tebow will have 11 games to show Denver he is their franchise QB. It's going to be a long 4 weeks though for us.

oubronco
09-16-2011, 09:17 AM
Pretty interesting speculation here:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/the-daily-lard-9-16-11

If they trade Tebow to the Ravens for a 3rd this place would ****ing explode

zdoor
09-16-2011, 09:21 AM
If they trade Tebow to the Ravens for a 3rd this place would ****ing explode

How about if they trade him and he develops after the trade?

Would be nuclear and to a certain extent, justified...

DrFate
09-16-2011, 09:21 AM
If they trade Tebow to the Ravens for a 3rd this place would ****ing explode

It be more egg-on-the-face for the McDaniels apologists...

I'd be in favor of this move - if they don't have faith in Tebow, they don't have faith in Tebow. Fine. Trade him for some value and draft Luck or Barkley or Jones or whomever they DO have faith in. End the circus. Move on. If Tebow goes to Baltimore and becomes a HOF player, Elway and Fox and Co. look stupid. If he goes to Baltimore and is a flop, they look smart.

If they have confidence in their talent evaluation abilities, pull the trigger. McDaniels was confident that Cassell was a better fit than Cutler - stand up and make your play.

Raider Bill
09-16-2011, 09:22 AM
Al Davis next
http://www.hellhappens.com/satan-3-by-jack-chick.gif

Say what you want about Al, if there was a guy who gave us a better chance to win, he would have him playing, escellators be damned... and Al doesnt have Pat Bowlen money.

PRBronco
09-16-2011, 09:28 AM
It be more egg-on-the-face for the McDaniels apologists...

I'd be in favor of this move - if they don't have faith in Tebow, they don't have faith in Tebow. Fine. Trade him for some value and draft Luck or Barkley or Jones or whomever they DO have faith in. End the circus. Move on. If Tebow goes to Baltimore and becomes a HOF player, Elway and Fox and Co. look stupid. If he goes to Baltimore and is a flop, they look smart.

If they have confidence in their talent evaluation abilities, pull the trigger. McDaniels was confident that Cassell was a better fit than Cutler - stand up and make your play.

Dude it's been two ****ing years and you still don't have the facts straight? Do you work for ESPN or something?

Triplelefthook
09-16-2011, 09:40 AM
no one has been able to give me a good answer to justify that Orton is starting to save Bowlen's wallet. If this was the case why didn't they trade him for ANYTHING they could get before the season started? Or trade Tebow before his September roster bonus hit?

The story was that Denver held off from Miami because they wanted a better draft pick... if they are trying to save money then why didn't Bowlen tell them to trade Orton for a 5th rounder (or whatever) and just get the deal done. Then they can play it off as total faith in Tebow and you know it would please the masses.

DrFate
09-16-2011, 09:41 AM
Dude it's been two ****ing years and you still don't have the facts straight? Do you work for ESPN or something?

I do not. Please feel free to correct where I was mistaken.

It was reported that McDaniels asked about Cassell, and McDaniels admitted that was true. Is there some recent revelation?

DrFate
09-16-2011, 09:44 AM
no one has been able to give me a good answer to justify that Orton is starting to save Bowlen's wallet.

I think it's speculation based on the mixed message of 'Orton is on the trade block one day' and 'Orton is our starter' the next. Tebow has escalators based on playing time, Orton does not.



If this was the case why didn't they trade him for ANYTHING they could get before the season started?

Conventional wisdom is that MIA was willing to give up the picks but wanted Orton to restructure and he refused. Reports were Orton wanted a Kolb-like contract to accept any extension

Or trade Tebow before his September roster bonus hit?

This I don't understand either.

alkemical
09-16-2011, 09:51 AM
John Elway seems to insert his foot into his mouth a lot.

Hoof....

Triplelefthook
09-16-2011, 09:51 AM
I think it's speculation based on the mixed message of 'Orton is on the trade block one day' and 'Orton is our starter' the next. Tebow has escalators based on playing time, Orton does not.



Conventional wisdom is that MIA was willing to give up the picks but wanted Orton to restructure and he refused. Reports were Orton wanted a Kolb-like contract to accept any extension



This I don't understand either.

Do you think this is the truth? That the Broncos are starting Orton to save Bowlen's money?

SonOfLe-loLang
09-16-2011, 09:56 AM
I do not. Please feel free to correct where I was mistaken.

It was reported that McDaniels asked about Cassell, and McDaniels admitted that was true. Is there some recent revelation?

If I recall, the story was that someone called the Broncos regarding Cutler with an insane deal that would include Cassel, and he listened. Also, if i recall, when Shanahan got fired, it was rumored Cutler asked for a trade. And nothing else to me even makes a bit of sense from a logic standpoint.

PRBronco
09-16-2011, 10:16 AM
If I recall, the story was that someone called the Broncos regarding Cutler with an insane deal that would include Cassel, and he listened. Also, if i recall, when Shanahan got fired, it was rumored Cutler asked for a trade. And nothing else to me even makes a bit of sense from a logic standpoint.

Yeah this is what I understand to be true. But all the major sports news places just maintain McD tried to "run Cutler out of town" as soon as he got there. Same as they maintain all their ridiculous notions about Tebow now. It's just shameful.

DrFate
09-16-2011, 10:17 AM
Do you think this is the truth? That the Broncos are starting Orton to save Bowlen's money?

Do I? Not really - I wouldn't be stunned if it were true, but it isn't a theory I came up with. :)

I've been pretty consistent with my thoughts - the FO had from JAN to JUL to make a decision. As late as JUL, they had Orton on the trade block (and I can't imagine it was to start Quinn). When Orton tanked the trade due to his money demands, all of a sudden the FO does a complete 180 and hands him the job on a silver platter? It's all pretty confusing to me.

Their choice IN JULY was to not start Orton. He was a Dolphin. Whether people want to argue about the compensation or Orton's demands or whatever - it doesn't change the fact that they were READY to move on without Orton.

If they had six months to decide, and then suddenly decided that Tebow couldn't play (and that they 'dodged a bullet'), I think that reflects poorly on the FO. People claim 'Tebow isn't ready' - would he be MORE ready if Orton had a fish on his helmet?

DrFate
09-16-2011, 10:20 AM
If I recall, the story was that someone called the Broncos regarding Cutler with an insane deal that would include Cassel, and he listened. Also, if i recall, when Shanahan got fired, it was rumored Cutler asked for a trade. And nothing else to me even makes a bit of sense from a logic standpoint.

As I recall, McDaniels admitted that he made the inquiry about Cassell.

I have read more recently that Cutler 'demanded' the trade after Bates was fired.

TheReverend
09-16-2011, 10:22 AM
If I recall, the story was that someone called the Broncos regarding Cutler with an insane deal that would include Cassel, and he listened. Also, if i recall, when Shanahan got fired, it was rumored Cutler asked for a trade. And nothing else to me even makes a bit of sense from a logic standpoint.

The speculation was that Cutler asked for a trade after Bates was fired.

The only REAL quotes prove that McDaniels went after Cassel and not the other way around:

"McDaniels did pursue a deal with New England on the first day of free agency, but not intensely, he said, because he and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders were in the middle of doing six free-agent negotiations in the opening two days of free-agency. "I think we were too late to the dance,'' he said, meaning the Chiefs had already made the deal with New England -- a second-round pick for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. Denver would have given more, likely a first-round pick, but Patriots coach Bill Belichick had his deal done with the Chiefs."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1153233/2/index.htm

DrFate
09-16-2011, 10:24 AM
The only REAL quotes prove that McDaniels went after Cassel and not the other way around:

"McDaniels did pursue a deal with New England on the first day of free agency, but not intensely, he said, because he and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders were in the middle of doing six free-agent negotiations in the opening two days of free-agency. "I think we were too late to the dance,'' he said, meaning the Chiefs had already made the deal with New England -- a second-round pick for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. Denver would have given more, likely a first-round pick, but Patriots coach Bill Belichick had his deal done with the Chiefs."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1153233/2/index.htm

I guess I should tell PRBronco to suck it? :)

Drek
09-16-2011, 10:26 AM
If I recall, the story was that someone called the Broncos regarding Cutler with an insane deal that would include Cassel, and he listened. Also, if i recall, when Shanahan got fired, it was rumored Cutler asked for a trade. And nothing else to me even makes a bit of sense from a logic standpoint.

Cutler's agent actually said that he requested a trade on Cutler's behalf after McDaniels' hiring and Bates' departure. He just waited until after it was already a media circus and he was "reiterating" their desire for a trade.

The teams that were rumored to have offered to get Cassel and give a bunch more value for Cutler were the Bucs, Jets, and Vikings. All teams who kicked the tires on Bus Cook's other client, Brett Favre, at various points before and shortly after the Cutler ordeal.

The fact that some people actually think McDaniels shipped Cutler out of town and that Cutler didn't have his agent execute the exact same exit strategy Cook used for Favre in Green Bay and McNair in Tennessee underscores just how little people actually pay attention to **** they don't want to hear.

If I really believed this I would move on and find something else to do with my time.

If you believe what you said how can you rationalize sticking around and wasting time on failed ownership and the resulting dysfunctional sports team.

I'm a fan of the NFL first, Broncos second, and I'm anything but a fair weather fan. I can easily weather the storm of the Broncos org. being more concerned with Bowlen's bank account by enjoying fantasy football and watching other great football games.

This weekend I'm watching Chicago @ New Orleans, San Diego @ New England, and Philly @ Atlanta all three in a row. I don't see much to complain about with that.

Bowlen gets my money when he puts winning first. Until then the best he gets out of me is his 1/32nd share for me watching games on TV.

That doesn't sound right ... do they usually load up highly-drafted rookie contracts with escalators? If they do, Von and Rahim and Orlando must have Pat shaking even more than usual.

QBs who slide to the back half of the first/early 2nd often have them in case they become starting QBs. Of course that was before the new CBA, which Miller, Moore, and Franklin signed their contracts under. Now rookie deals are much more tightly capped from escalating like that.

But prior to the new CBA it was common for a QB taken in the late first/early 2nd range to give up some guaranteed money compared at his slot to instead have an incentivized deal that would pay him like a real franchise QB should he take the reigns.

We happen to have two such cases on our roster now. Quinn signed such a deal with the Browns and is making only a little better than league minimum for his base. If he gets to 70% of the snaps though he gets a cool $6M in bonus money.

Tebow's contract meanwhile was around $11M total value, but if he plays 50% of the snaps this year he gets an extra $1.25M. Doesn't seem like a big deal, but if he does the same in 2012 it combines for even more escalators that will push the net value of his contract to over $22M. That is assuming he doesn't also make a pro-bowl or get us in the playoffs. He's got more bonuses for that.

This team low balled every good talent in the best DT class to ever hit free agency.

We've done nothing to resolve our MLB issues even though Kirk Morrison sat out as a free agent for months before signing with Buffalo, and Lofa Tatupu is still out there without us even giving a look.

We completely ignored that Goodman lost a step last year and would likely only continue that trend this year, and that our backup CBs were UDFAs or 7th rounders when the CB market had several impact players available.

We settled for a worn out, beat up RB instead of any kind of real depth behind Moreno, even though the staff asked Moreno to lose 10-15 pounds for this season.

Our OL sucked last year because there is no veteran leadership on it to provide stability and competition, while it has a complete lack of depth forcing musical chairs to patchwork together a 5 man line should anyone get hurt. Its the exact same line as last year only instead of betting on Harris to stay healthy (who's a near pro-bowl level RT when on the field) we bet on a 2nd rounder with more time at guard in college to start at RT for us. In short they took McDaniels' biggest mistake here and doubled down on it.

Best FA pool to go shopping in ever. We get effectively ZERO help of any amount.

You really think this team is putting winning first? This is without even getting into how we're a top 10 revenue club but a bottom 10 team in dollars spent for the entire last decade.

Drek
09-16-2011, 10:31 AM
The speculation was that Cutler asked for a trade after Bates was fired.

The only REAL quotes prove that McDaniels went after Cassel and not the other way around:

"McDaniels did pursue a deal with New England on the first day of free agency, but not intensely, he said, because he and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders were in the middle of doing six free-agent negotiations in the opening two days of free-agency. "I think we were too late to the dance,'' he said, meaning the Chiefs had already made the deal with New England -- a second-round pick for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. Denver would have given more, likely a first-round pick, but Patriots coach Bill Belichick had his deal done with the Chiefs."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1153233/2/index.htm

You left out this one part:

I asked McDaniels if he'd been interested in Cassel before the contact by the two teams at the combine, going back to when he knew Cassel might be on the market and available in trade from the Patriots. "No, that's totally untrue,'' he said.

Teams had already come to him making stupid offers for Cutler and McDaniels checked to see how realistic it would be to actually get Cassel. He found that Cassel already had a new home and let it drop.

Yet somehow Cutler and Cook knew about it mere hours after McDaniels first called the Patriots and happened to conduct multiple radio interviews over the weekend and into the next week talking about how McDaniels was actively shopping Cutler.

Tombstone RJ
09-16-2011, 10:32 AM
was just posted on his twitter

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!


https://twitter.com/#!/johnelway

fail

WolfpackGuy
09-16-2011, 10:33 AM
Jay got himself a big raise out of it from Chicago.

Well played by his camp, if you ask me.

rbackfactory80
09-16-2011, 10:35 AM
Elway thinks he is smarter than the fans. Evaluate Tebow in terms of what Tebow can do. Don't evaluate him as a standard drop back passer.

Drek
09-16-2011, 10:43 AM
Jay got himself a big raise out of it from Chicago.

Well played by his camp, if you ask me.
He got a fantastic raise because not only did he get a three year extension with big guaranteed dollars, that extension effectively guaranteed the back couple years of his rookie deal with huge non-guaranteed base salaries.

Bus Cook is a fantastic agent. But his track record is torching teams to get his guys where they want to be. I don't see why everyone wants to assume the opposite happened with Cutler.

Triplelefthook
09-16-2011, 10:51 AM
Do I? Not really - I wouldn't be stunned if it were true, but it isn't a theory I came up with. :)

I've been pretty consistent with my thoughts - the FO had from JAN to JUL to make a decision. As late as JUL, they had Orton on the trade block (and I can't imagine it was to start Quinn). When Orton tanked the trade due to his money demands, all of a sudden the FO does a complete 180 and hands him the job on a silver platter? It's all pretty confusing to me.

Their choice IN JULY was to not start Orton. He was a Dolphin. Whether people want to argue about the compensation or Orton's demands or whatever - it doesn't change the fact that they were READY to move on without Orton.

If they had six months to decide, and then suddenly decided that Tebow couldn't play (and that they 'dodged a bullet'), I think that reflects poorly on the FO. People claim 'Tebow isn't ready' - would he be MORE ready if Orton had a fish on his helmet?



Fair assessment. I think that is more along the lines of where I stand as well. Either way it is a gigantic CharlieFoxtrot, mostly created by the McD regime (wonder how this plays out if McD stays, probably starts Tebow yet Orton still sabotages trade negotiatons?)

Tough spot.

DENVERDUI55
09-16-2011, 10:54 AM
Elway says Pat pass that bottle quit hogging the booze. Let's see Kiper rates this guy high let's take him.

oubronco
09-16-2011, 10:56 AM
Likely scenario is they win 2-4 games and draft Luck, Orton and Quinn both leave via FA's

We then have a new QB controversy with Luck, Tebow, and Weber

Sounds fun huh

DrFate
09-16-2011, 11:01 AM
Likely scenario is they win 2-4 games and draft Luck, Orton and Quinn both leave via FA's

We then have a new QB controversy with Luck, Tebow, and Weber

Sounds fun huh

I think the bulk of Broncos fans would quickly buy Luck jerseys. The Tebow fans would sulk, no doubt.

Part of me think this IS the plan - but what i can't explain (if it is) is why the team gave Tebow the bonus a month ago? It was like $6mil or somesuch. For him to be 'the fourth best QB on the team', not even see goal line work, and to be sent packing next year?

If they draft Luck/Jones/Barkley they could find a stopgap guy like Hasselbeck or somebody to start the season and carry the clipboard. We know Orton doesn't see himself as a 'mentor'...

TheReverend
09-16-2011, 11:03 AM
You left out this one part:



Teams had already come to him making stupid offers for Cutler and McDaniels checked to see how realistic it would be to actually get Cassel. He found that Cassel already had a new home and let it drop.

Yet somehow Cutler and Cook knew about it mere hours after McDaniels first called the Patriots and happened to conduct multiple radio interviews over the weekend and into the next week talking about how McDaniels was actively shopping Cutler.

I didn't leave anything out. I linked the entire article for a reason.

That being said, your extra post has nothing to do with it. McDaniels actively pursued trading him and lied about it. Period.

As for your claims that Cutler and Cook campaigned about this... do you have timetables of the aforementioned trade discussions and their reaction?

TonyR
09-16-2011, 11:23 AM
Drek, your argument about Tebow/finances/escalators and the Broncos money motivated moves in general is convincing and may have some truth to it. But it does have some holes.
Why draft Tebow in the first place? Why allow McD to pull that trigger?
Why make the FA moves they've made? McD spent a good deal of money. Why Ty Warren? He wasn't cheap.
Why the big contracts to Doom, Champ, Kuper?
Why the extension to Orton?
Going further back, to the extent relevant, why fire Shanahan? That was a very expensive move. And why fire McD? That wasn't cheap, either.
Why give Tebow the contract escalators?
Bowlen/Ellis/Elway/Xanders/Fox know the that winning is generally good long term for the organization financially. Why not play the guy you think is best?
How would you communicate to Fox/McCoy/etc. that Orton is the starter? Who tells him this and how? What of the potential fallout?
For that matter, how do you tell Elway? You think Elway, winning, competitive guy that he is, would accept a directive to play Orton because of money? You think he'd be okay with that?
Don't the positives of the team succeeding with Tebow playing outweigh the cost of the escalators?

Again, maybe you're right. But a large part of me has a problem believing the team would purposefully tank the season because of money. And that all the acting parts would be okay with that. Money may be a factor, but I really think there's more to it than that. A lot more to it...

Que
09-16-2011, 11:42 AM
Sorry, but I feel a MAJOR RANT coming on.... :angel:
(feel free to skip right over my post, afterall, they are JMOHO's)

(Tim putting the 'Team' ahead of reality, imoho)
Tebow backs Orton amid Bronco fans calls for QB change.
Tebow said Thursday that while he's honored his fans are cheering for him to take over as the Denver Broncos' quarterback,
he trusts his coach and will bide his time without complaint.
Anywho,,, so much for Tebow being an impatient crybaby.....
===============

-- A perfect example of yet another ignorant media moron (Sporting News) statement. My question is, are the majority of media morons
TOTAL LIARS, or are they just THIS STUPID??? -- AS

"Tebow never came close to beating out Orton this (lockout shortened) summer and was even outplayed by Brady Quinn.
Quinn in all likelihood would go in if Orton were to get hurt, so when Tebow plays is anybody's guess."

-- Apparently a lockout summer practice session now means more than 4 actual preseason games -- AS

The Actual 2011 Preseason Bronco QB stats and RATINGS:

3. Brady Quinn - 22 of 42 (52.4%) for 276 yds (6.6 ypa) 2 TD's, 2 Ints, Long 26 yds, QB Rating 69.1

2. Kyle Orton - 28 of 42 (66.7%) for 408 yds, (9.7 ypa) 2 TD's, 1 Int, Long 42 yds, QB Rating 104.1

1. Tim Tebow - 20 of 31 (64.5%) for 310 yds, (10.0 ypa) 1 TD, 0 Int, Long 43 yds, QB Rating 108.3 <---<<<

So Tim wins the NFL QB Passer Rating race over 5th year Vet Quinn and 8th year Vet Orton,,, EVEN in a lockout offseason and little or
no work with the 1st team offense.
* And he has a higher NFL QB Rating than the last two #1 draft picks to boot.

Plus, that's before you add in his 8, 2011 preseason carries for 56 yds, 6.9 ypc, Long 19 yds.
Notice that he continues leading ALL Bronco runners in Yards per Carry.

BTW - Tim went 7 of 11 (63.5%) for 116 yds, 16.5 ypr in the last 2011 preseason game while scoring Denver's ONLY TD.
Scam Newton Panthers Preseason Totals: 24 of 57 (42.1%) with one TD, which was apparently enough to 'earn' him the starting job
over Fox's last QB draft pick, the Interception Machine Jimmy da Pickle.

Orton's W/L is now 11-18 (28%) in his last 29 games as the Broncos' starter,,, as it continues falling.
Orton just went 24-of-46 (52.2%) for 304 yards and 1 TD, 1 Int, 1 fumble, and 5 sacks against the Raiders.
* Sack Note: In the final 3 games of last season, Tebow was only sacked a total of 6 times for 4.25 yds/sack.
=====================


Hall of Famer John Elway, now the Broncos' chief of football operations, chimed in Thursday, tweeting,
"If decisions were made based on one week, I'd have been outta here after my first start!"
That was on Sept. 4, 1983, at Pittsburgh, where Elway was just 1 for 8 for 14 yards with 1 Int and 4 sacks.

That's right John, and they kept playing you until you finally-eventually got better. Maybe they should have let you 'try to learn' while sitting on the bench like Tebow, since you seem to believe that's the way it should be done. ;)
Apparently, the current Bronco Management can't make good decisions, even after 3, 2010 regular season games:

2010 NFL Rookie QB Passer Ratings:

1. Tebow -- 82.1 - 5 TD's to 3 Ints, Ratio 1.64 to 1. (3 starts, 5 TD's)

2. Bradford 76.5 - 18 TD's to 15 Int's, Ratio 1.2 to 1.
3. McCoy - 74.5 - 6 TD's to 9 Int's, Ratio .64 to 1.
4. Fox's Clausen 58.4 - 3 TD's to 9 Int's, Ratio .33 to 1. (10 starts, 3 TD's)
* Quinn - 56.8 in his rookie year 07 - only a 66.8 for his 3 yr NFL career.

>>> 2010 Tebow - Total Offense = 881 Yds, 10.5 yds/play, 11 TD's, 3 Ints, 0 lost poss fumbles. <<<

Plus 4, 2011 preseason games:

Tebow Preseason - 20 of 31 (64.5%) for 310 yds, (10.0 ypa) 1 TD, 0 Int, Long 43 yds, QB RATING - 108.3

The best Bronco overall QB Rating at 108.3

The best Bronco Yds per Attempt Passing at 10.0 ypa.

The longest Bronco pass completion at 43 yds.

The ONLY Bronco QB that threw ZERO interceptions. :thumbs:

PLUS -- The best YPC of the entire Bronco team at 6.9 ypc. !Booya!

All of that CLEARLY shows that Tebow is not ( :notready: ) ready to be an NFL starter......

Elway's 1st Bronco start: 1 for 8 for 14 yds with an Int and 4 sacks. (but he still continued as the starter)

Tebow's 1st Bronco start: 8 of 16 for 138 yds, 17.25 yds/comp, 1 TD and ZERO Ints, with a 100.5 QB Rating. That was also the BEST rookie 1st start QB rating for 2010, NOBODY else had a 100 rating. :strong:
================

"Still, Orton has the support of the only man who matters Fox." Sporting News
(Apparently this writer doesn't believe that Elway's support or opinion matters?)

-- Fox is the same genius coach that drafted Jimmy 'da pickle' Clausen last season, who eventually got benched for
throwing 3 TD's to 9 Ints, resulting in Fox finally getting FIRED from Carolina.... -- AS

McD's draft pick, Tebow had 5 passing TD's to only 3 Ints, in 9 GP with only 3 starts.

So Bowlen/Elway rush right out to hire this foxy 50/50 W/L genius????

Fox's Clausen only had 3 TD's in his 9 starts, plus 9 Ints, and that was after working all season with the Panther 1st team.

Is Bowlen now channeling Dan 'the snakeskins' Snyder for his advise before making his hiring decisions?

If, and I say IF, it's about Tebow's contract $$, then the CHEAP bronco BASTARDS :redpunch: don't deserve Tim and really should Trade him away to the Phins, and then go ahead and hire Stanford's ole Lucky, and pray that he's not really another Leaf, putting up overrated stats against those mostly chitty LAC 10 defenses.
====================

The Broncos don't have a specific package of plays right now that are designed to capitalize on Tim's running skills like they had last year, when he went in on short-yardage situations on occasion before starting the last three games of the season. "But if they wanted to dial it up I'm sure we've (practiced) that stuff enough times just to go out there and run it," Tebow said.

[Genius coach says naw, we'd rather lose ugly with our 7th year LOSER Veteran QB (that some still claim gives the Broncos the best (28%) chance to win). To me, it looks like nobody in the Broncos Office/Staff can grow a set and go with the correct QB. If Elway was just starting out here now, as a rookie QB, he'd be on the bench behind Orton, Quinn, and Tebow, if we go by HIS actual QB numbers..... AS]

(no, that's NOT hating on a great Bronco QB, it's just stating the FACTS/STATS on where he came up from as a rookie) :kiss:

Peyton Manning went 3-13 as a rookie while setting a new NFL Rookie QB record for Interceptions. :holyguac!

But the Colts stayed with him, let him start and play EVERY game, and they eventually built a team around his strengths. Evidently the Bronco staff are either to dumb, or to stubborn, or to scared to do the same with a life time winner like Tim Tebow.

Greatest rant ever. I agree with 100% of this. Only logical conclusions of their actions are:

1. No Money: If that is true then shame on you Bowlen, Xanders and Wormtongue Ellis for writing checks you can't cash. Also, shame on you Elway for letting Bowlen treat you like a cheap hooker hoping to lure some fans back to the fold for another fiscal quarter of two. Change your title to Spokesmodel then. Exit the business and turn it over to someone with the resources to make it successful. Otherwise, you are wasting our time.

2. No Brains/GroupThink: If that is true, please exit the business and turn it over to someone with talent.

3. Jealousy or Hubris: I really hate to go here but it is a logical explanation - not wanting the Tebow brand to overwhelm the Broncos brand if he's successful. There is some reasoning here because you could say Elway did that back in the day - remember Reeves v. Elway circa 1990? Maybe Elway don't dig the idea that there could be a new hero in town. Whatever it is, if it ego/emotional, exit the business and turn it over to someone with the maturity to run it.

Numbers don't lie - as AS pointed out. At some point they trump qualitative observations like "he's throws the ball funny" or "he runs too much" or "he doesn't look good in practice". Too bad they can't apply the same logic to Kyle "he doesn't look good in games" Orton.

Cito Pelon
09-16-2011, 11:57 AM
This is shaping up to be a tough season all around for everybody in Bronco land. Eh, maybe they'll start winning games.

LongDongJohnson
09-16-2011, 12:04 PM
A crap season with Orton will be worth it if we can get Andrew Luck. Then we will have the makings of a dynasty with a real franchise qb at the helm. Sick of the chargers being good every year? Its because they have phylis. If we can get our guy, we will be good every year as well.

Drek
09-16-2011, 01:09 PM
I didn't leave anything out. I linked the entire article for a reason.

That being said, your extra post has nothing to do with it. McDaniels actively pursued trading him and lied about it. Period.

As for your claims that Cutler and Cook campaigned about this... do you have timetables of the aforementioned trade discussions and their reaction?

We've been through all of this one thousand times before, I'm not going to make it one thousand and one.

All I was pointing out is that in the very article you linked McDaniels states that he never went into this job or the off-season with the idea to trade Cutler. Instead he confirms it was only after two teams made very lavish offers for Cutler that McDaniels checked in on what it would take to get Cassel. He even refers to it as being "late to the dance", obviously not something he viewed as an extremely high priority.

By actively pursued trading him I'm guessing you mean "looked into all possible avenues to improve the team" which at this point I can't see how anyone could argue that Cassel in McDaniels system and a bevvy of draft picks from a team like Tampa Bay wouldn't have been better for this team than keeping Cutler.

I will say that given some time I now completely understand why Cutler would no longer want to be a Bronco. This was no longer a stable organization from the top down, so why would he want to commit to staying here? Cook's antics are rather bush league but then his job isn't to maintain positive fan views of the Broncos ownership, its to get what's best for his client. Working for Pat Bowlen obviously is no longer in the best interests of any professional football player who can get similar money elsewhere.

PRBronco
09-16-2011, 01:10 PM
This is shaping up to be a tough season all around for everybody in Bronco land. Eh, maybe they'll start winning games.

I thought it would be a little peaceful around here for a while at least with McD gone, but it's possibly gotten worse :S

DrFate
09-16-2011, 01:20 PM
I can't see how anyone could argue that Cassel in McDaniels system and a bevvy of draft picks from a team like Tampa Bay wouldn't have been better for this team than keeping Cutler.

I think it's pretty easy to argue if McDaniels is the one selecting the players from that 'bevy' of draft picks :~ohyah!:

vancejohnson82
09-16-2011, 01:26 PM
The speculation was that Cutler asked for a trade after Bates was fired.

The only REAL quotes prove that McDaniels went after Cassel and not the other way around:

"McDaniels did pursue a deal with New England on the first day of free agency, but not intensely, he said, because he and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders were in the middle of doing six free-agent negotiations in the opening two days of free-agency. "I think we were too late to the dance,'' he said, meaning the Chiefs had already made the deal with New England -- a second-round pick for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. Denver would have given more, likely a first-round pick, but Patriots coach Bill Belichick had his deal done with the Chiefs."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1153233/2/index.htm

why bold the second part of that? it was what the writer "thought"

Drek
09-16-2011, 01:35 PM
Drek, your argument about Tebow/finances/escalators and the Broncos money motivated moves in general is convincing and may have some truth to it. But it does have some holes.
Why draft Tebow in the first place? Why allow McD to pull that trigger?
This point and most that follow all work under the caveat of Bowlen letting McDaniels basically run everything top down, so it all can be explained away to some degree by that fact. All have additional corroborating reasons however.

In the case of drafting Tebow, McDaniels obviously believed in him and he is a marketing machine. For a team with horrible fan approval at that point a guy like Tebow is a big PR move for late 1st round money. If McDaniels backs up his gamble and makes Tebow an elite QB then he's cheap by that measure. If not Tebow likely doesn't hit most of his escalators and the contract is more than paid for by his popularity.

Why make the FA moves they've made? McD spent a good deal of money.
McDaniels spent a lot of money, but much of it wasn't real. Big back end numbers that were never paid and deferred bonus money to avoid the immediate pay outs. Its this kind of financial mismanagement that sees us giving more money to Bannan and Jamaal Williams this year when they aren't on the team than we gave them last year as starters.

Why Ty Warren? He wasn't cheap.
He wasn't? 2 years, $8M is VERY cheap for a starting DT. Add that much of that isn't guaranteed. Warren is going to get half of that money at the most.

Why the big contracts to Doom, Champ, Kuper?
I wouldn't call Kuper's deal "big". He's getting average starting OG money. As for the other two, they're fan favorites. You have to spend money on someone so you give it to the fan favorites to keep the fans happy.

Why the extension to Orton?
Why did the FO try to shop him? Same reason, perceived value.

If McDaniels had Nolan's defense last year and an OL that met the expectations he put on it Orton looks like a top 10 QB. Huge trading value. Obviously this FO tried to keep that same plan in place but forgot how clearly Orton was demonstrated as fool's gold without McDaniels pulling the strings.

Going further back, to the extent relevant, why fire Shanahan? That was a very expensive move. And why fire McD? That wasn't cheap, either.
Bowlen never said no to Shanahan until he fired him. The line about clearer division of power is obviously bull**** because he let Ellis and co. run the Goodmans out the door, thrusting McDaniels into soul personnel control. You recall what the timeframe was for Bowlen firing Shanahan? It wasn't after he said Slowik would be back at DC. It was when he went asking Pat for a new practice facility.

As for McDaniels, his contract wasn't very large, since he was a rookie HC. He also settled for a buy out, so after that was paid no additional money was given to him. I'd assume that was why Bowlen and Ellis jumped so ferociously on the London taping ordeal. The league obviously didn't see enough at fault with McDaniels to penalize us on draft picks, after previously stripping a first from the Pats. It was a fantastic opportunity to force McDaniels into a buy out however, and letting it pass meant they'd have to pay him the rest of his contract including 2011.

Why give Tebow the contract escalators?
Because that is status quo for rookie QBs taken in the late 1st/early 2nd. That is how contracts are built. What did the last QB taken around this spot get for a deal? Now add X% for inflation, done. No agent was letting Tebow sign without some provisions that got him top QB money should he emerge as a top QB.

Bowlen/Ellis/Elway/Xanders/Fox know the that winning is generally good long term for the organization financially. Why not play the guy you think is best?
Because they'd rather have Luck. Running the Orton/Quinn/Tebow saw mill approach where you pull Orton for Quinn around week 6, Quinn for Tebow around week 10, means none of them hit their escalators and none of them get a real chance to shine. As soon as they stick Tebow on the field late this season with a scrub team around him and we drop some games they can explain away why they traded him for a late round pick and blew their nut on getting Luck. The QB Elway has wanted all along.

How would you communicate to Fox/McCoy/etc. that Orton is the starter? Who tells him this and how? What of the potential fallout?
You don't think Fox and co. are in on the gameplan? How do they know if Tebow can do what they're asking when by all accounts he got next to no reps even in camp with the first team? They've given 99% of all 1st team reps to Orton and claimed he won the competition outright. When was this competition even held then?

Fox is here because Elway wanted him. Even when we were interviewing HC candidates it was clear who Elway wanted all along once Harbaugh was off the table. You don't think they've had conversations about how to manage this?

For that matter, how do you tell Elway? You think Elway, winning, competitive guy that he is, would accept a directive to play Orton because of money? You think he'd be okay with that?
I'm pretty sure he'd be the one giving it if he knew it'd get him Luck. Which it will. Because this team is a ****ing joke.

Don't the positives of the team succeeding with Tebow playing outweigh the cost of the escalators?
Sure, and if Elway, Fox, etc. were actually sold on Tebow being a great QB they'd put him out there. But obviously they're not.

Again, maybe you're right. But a large part of me has a problem believing the team would purposefully tank the season because of money. And that all the acting parts would be okay with that. Money may be a factor, but I really think there's more to it than that. A lot more to it...
I don't think they view it as tanking, just taking a fiscally conservative approach that will assure them of reaching their other goals (getting Luck, dumping Tebow with mitigated fan backlash).

Why would they try to trade Orton if they didn't believe in Tebow? Because it takes a ton of money off the books and lets them throw Tebow to the wolves, knowing he won't get it done and they can bench him for Quinn before he hits his escalators (and after Quinn can get his).

How does Tebow go from our #1 QB pre-camp to our #3 as soon as the trade for Orton falls through, with absolutely zero camp competition?

Because he was being set up to fail this year where he'd need to provide a miracle level breakout. As soon as they saw they'd overplayed their hand with Orton and he was coming back the next best financial move they could do was to assure themselves that neither Quinn or Tebow can hit their escalators. Best way to do that is to put the already sunk cost of Orton in at #1 with no challenge allowed.

I don't see why people assume Elway and Fox aren't complicit in this. Neither one of them was here to draft Tebow. They have never provided any kind of real support to Tebow. At no point has either one of them said "Tebow is the future of this franchise at QB, but we don't want to rush him on the field yet. He'll play when he's truly ready". Instead its "we play our best QB, thats Orton" while Orton ****s his pants up and down the field on Sundays.

After what Tebow did in three games last season I don't see much chance what we're getting out of Orton as a passer is worth significantly more than what Tebow could provide as a passer. Then you also get Tebow's athleticism and passion for the game, both valuable commodities to a team lacking both skill and heart like ours.

But instead of giving Tebow a real shot he was stashed behind Orton and as quickly as possible shuffled behind Quinn. All to protect the two real goals currently targeted by the Broncos management. Save money before the mandatory cap floor comes and Suck for Luck.

TheReverend
09-16-2011, 01:38 PM
We've been through all of this one thousand times before, I'm not going to make it one thousand and one.

Then we agree.

why bold the second part of that? it was what the writer "thought"

Nothing about that sentence is opinion. It's coming off of a discussion with Josh himself. He doesn't say "Denver likely would have" or "Denver might have" it says "Denver would have given MORE"

vancejohnson82
09-16-2011, 01:49 PM
Then we agree.



Nothing about that sentence is opinion. It's coming off of a discussion with Josh himself. He doesn't say "Denver likely would have" or "Denver might have" it says "Denver would have given MORE"

ehhh, if McD would have said it he would have quoted it more effectively...that was a writer trying to throw in a bombshell quote at the end to wrap it up nicely

24champ
09-16-2011, 02:00 PM
Fox is here because Elway wanted him. Even when we were interviewing HC candidates it was clear who Elway wanted all along once Harbaugh was off the table. You don't think they've had conversations about how to manage this?


Elway wanted Harbaugh, but Harbaugh was never interested in the Broncos. The Broncos were never within his range of what Harbaugh's asking price was. Not even close, and when Elway stated that money was not an issue when it came to hiring a HC but its clear it was. Pat wasn't going to approve a 5 year 25 million contract to a rookie HC or close to what he got with SF. Harbaugh had owners flying their private jets to SF to see him and offer him big contracts. What did Elway do? Elway left Harbaugh a voicemail.

Pathetic.

Broncos couldn't afford some real change in the structure of the organization. Bowlen didn't want to dump Ellis, Xanders and hire a new GM and coach to be on the same page.

gunns
09-16-2011, 02:06 PM
[QUOTE=AlphaSeirra;3296603]Sorry, but I feel a MAJOR RANT coming on.... :angel:


Elway's 1st Bronco start: 1 for 8 for 14 yds with an Int and 4 sacks. (but he still continued as the starter)

Tebow's 1st Bronco start: 8 of 16 for 138 yds, 17.25 yds/comp, 1 TD and ZERO Ints, with a 100.5 QB Rating. That was also the BEST rookie 1st start QB rating for 2010, NOBODY else had a 100 rating. :strong:
================

<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/facepalm/patchbunny/Demotivators/Cleanimpliedfacepalm.jpg?o=18" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/patchbunny/Demotivators/Cleanimpliedfacepalm.jpg" border="0"></a>

Drek
09-16-2011, 02:09 PM
Broncos couldn't afford some real change in the structure of the organization. Bowlen didn't want to dump Ellis, Xanders and hire a new GM and coach to be on the same page.

Hell, we've got all the same scouts and whatnot. So the same talent evaluation we had with McDaniels are still here. Elway and Fox are getting the same reports McDaniels got to make his draft decisions.

24champ
09-16-2011, 02:32 PM
Hell, we've got all the same scouts and whatnot. So the same talent evaluation we had with McDaniels are still here. Elway and Fox are getting the same reports McDaniels got to make his draft decisions.

Yeah we still have a few guys in the scouting department that worked with McDaniels in New England. Would have been nice to get Grigson or DeCosta onboard and make some personnel changes, then get a HC that can utilize the talent that Grigson/DeCosta would put on the team.

Orange4Life
09-16-2011, 02:35 PM
Would it be easier if we all just tell you for him? :thanku:

Jake, you are at your most active here when it involves a QB. From Jake (HOF thread) to now Orton vs Tebow.

FYI Not Jake. Jake has spaces Orange 4 Life. Jon has no spaces Orange4Life.

Que
09-16-2011, 03:51 PM
FYI Not Jake. Jake has spaces Orange 4 Life. Jon has no spaces Orange4Life.

And Leon is getting L-A-R-G-E-R!

Sorry, overstimulated. Ignore.

TonyR
09-16-2011, 04:39 PM
Because they'd rather have Luck.

Thanks for the response. I find myself nodding my head in approval to most of it. I think what I quoted above may be the most important part. Which begs the question: if they "succeed" and are able to get Luck, are people okay with that? Is there anything wrong with going after what you think is a sure thing, very few in a generation, franchise QB? If you're not okay with it, is it because you think Tebow can be that guy or just because you hate the idea of not doing everything possible to win now? I'm a little bit on the fence with this but find myself leaning toward accepting the FO having a goal and formulating a plan to achieve it. Could end up being the best thing for the organization despite the pain we're going to have to endure in the interim...

One more thing on your post. For Fox to be complicit he'd have to be offered some kind of job security. In other words, most coaches have a "win now/win at all costs" mentality because they know if they don't they'll be unemployed. So is this your assumption? Otherwise, I can't see a coaching staff being on board.

OABB
09-16-2011, 07:38 PM
And Leon is getting L-A-R-G-E-R!

Sorry, overstimulated. Ignore.

looks like you picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

NUB
09-16-2011, 07:48 PM
Thanks for the response. I find myself nodding my head in approval to most of it. I think what I quoted above may be the most important part. Which begs the question: if they "succeed" and are able to get Luck, are people okay with that? Is there anything wrong with going after what you think is a sure thing, very few in a generation, franchise QB? If you're not okay with it, is it because you think Tebow can be that guy or just because you hate the idea of not doing everything possible to win now? I'm a little bit on the fence with this but find myself leaning toward accepting the FO having a goal and formulating a plan to achieve it. Could end up being the best thing for the organization despite the pain we're going to have to endure in the interim...

One more thing on your post. For Fox to be complicit he'd have to be offered some kind of job security. In other words, most coaches have a "win now/win at all costs" mentality because they know if they don't they'll be unemployed. So is this your assumption? Otherwise, I can't see a coaching staff being on board.

I'd be okay with Luck if we saw what we have with Tebow first. Drafting two first round QBs in such a short span on a team pockmarked with low-quality players is just yet another setback. Literally nothing would have changed in about five years time besides the team getting older and worse. That is sorta ridiculous.

2KBack
09-17-2011, 06:13 AM
I'd be okay with Luck if we saw what we have with Tebow first. Drafting two first round QBs in such a short span on a team pockmarked with low-quality players is just yet another setback. Literally nothing would have changed in about five years time besides the team getting older and worse. That is sorta ridiculous.

Or it could be similar to the suck streak that propelled the talent in SD to their recent levels

OrangeSe7en
09-17-2011, 07:12 AM
This.

Nice try Johnnie.

And so the fanbase is even starting to turn against Elway. Is Orton really worth this tarnishing your public perception? Doubt it. As has been said, it's not just one game.

Gort
09-17-2011, 08:28 AM
And so the fanbase is even starting to turn against Elway. Is Orton really worth this tarnishing your public perception? Doubt it. As has been said, it's not just one game.

you bring up an interesting point. if Elway insists on sticking with Orton as the losses continue to pile up, does he run the risk of ruining all of the goodwill he's accumulated in Denver over the past 30 years? i'd ask Elway, is it worth it? do you really want to risk becoming the butt of the jokes like Millen did in Detroit?

TailgateNut
09-17-2011, 09:12 AM
His salary and bank balances say "He doesn't give a **** what people like you think".

TheReverend
09-17-2011, 09:37 AM
His salary and bank balances say "He doesn't give a **** what people like you think".

...Yet a 180 degree contrast from his job description.

5 star post though.

Cito Pelon
09-17-2011, 09:46 AM
you bring up an interesting point. if Elway insists on sticking with Orton as the losses continue to pile up, does he run the risk of ruining all of the goodwill he's accumulated in Denver over the past 30 years? i'd ask Elway, is it worth it? do you really want to risk becoming the butt of the jokes like Millen did in Detroit?

Hey, it's tough to get out of that nice comfortable rut sometimes, just like Shanny with Griese, Shanny with Plummer, Shanny with McNabb. If you've ever managed people you know that.

SoCalBronco
09-17-2011, 10:23 AM
Elway wanted Harbaugh, but Harbaugh was never interested in the Broncos. The Broncos were never within his range of what Harbaugh's asking price was. Not even close, and when Elway stated that money was not an issue when it came to hiring a HC but its clear it was. Pat wasn't going to approve a 5 year 25 million contract to a rookie HC or close to what he got with SF. Harbaugh had owners flying their private jets to SF to see him and offer him big contracts. What did Elway do? Elway left Harbaugh a voicemail.

Pathetic.

Broncos couldn't afford some real change in the structure of the organization. Bowlen didn't want to dump Ellis, Xanders and hire a new GM and coach to be on the same page.

And now Bowlen can sleep in the bed he made. ****ing cheap piece of dog****. It's been only one week and the organization has been almost caught off guard by the fan reaction. The schedule is about to get very tough in a couple weeks. This is going to be NOTHING compared to a short while from now if it doesn't get turned around...fast.

SoCalBronco
09-17-2011, 10:27 AM
One more thing on your post. For Fox to be complicit he'd have to be offered some kind of job security. In other words, most coaches have a "win now/win at all costs" mentality because they know if they don't they'll be unemployed. So is this your assumption? Otherwise, I can't see a coaching staff being on board.

I think he absolutely does have some job security because 1) he's not divisive and is probably a comforting figure, 2) he's being paid a below average salary for an NFL HC (its like 2-2.5m I think) and most importantly 3) Bowlen isn't going to pay 4 coaches at one time.

Drek
09-17-2011, 10:30 AM
Thanks for the response. I find myself nodding my head in approval to most of it. I think what I quoted above may be the most important part. Which begs the question: if they "succeed" and are able to get Luck, are people okay with that? Is there anything wrong with going after what you think is a sure thing, very few in a generation, franchise QB? If you're not okay with it, is it because you think Tebow can be that guy or just because you hate the idea of not doing everything possible to win now? I'm a little bit on the fence with this but find myself leaning toward accepting the FO having a goal and formulating a plan to achieve it. Could end up being the best thing for the organization despite the pain we're going to have to endure in the interim...
Its not better in the long term if Luck isn't Peyton Manning and John Elway rolled into one super QB for starters. Even if he is the golden child its stupid as hell to lock ourselves into playing the lottery for him without even seeing what Tebow has.

The FO should have either traded Orton for anything they could get or release him outright if their goal was to chase Luck. Go all in with Tebow and make him prove that we don't need Luck.

I've said before that I think that was the initial plan, thrusting Tebow out a year before he's probably actually ready and making him sink or swim with a bad team around him. If he wins then he's your franchise QB. If not then drafting Luck will get 90% of fan support. Instead they overplayed their hand with Orton and locked themselves into all his bonuses. At that point the cost saving move is not allowing a QB competition and stacking the deck to avoid any further bonuses being reached.

The only smart move I've seen this half-new management do was draft Von Miller, and that wasn't exactly a tough call. Miller, Dareus, Peterson. You take one of the three and you look like a smart ****er just for picking #2.

****, even McDaniels could evaluate top tier talent. His first year he wanted to go up and get BJ Raji but couldn't get up past the Packers at #8.

The later rounds and FA are what's telling about this group now. All a bunch of patch work plug the gap choices despite the shortened off-season. We drafted two safeties, one of them is already starting. We drafted a RT, he's already starting. We drafted two MLBs, I'd be surprised if one of them doesn't end up starting by the end of the season because the guys in front all suck.

Instead of getting veteran solutions for our needs and drafting for the future we're drafting to fill needs with cheap rookies, knowing that we'll probably suck enough to "win" Andrew Luck.

One more thing on your post. For Fox to be complicit he'd have to be offered some kind of job security. In other words, most coaches have a "win now/win at all costs" mentality because they know if they don't they'll be unemployed. So is this your assumption? Otherwise, I can't see a coaching staff being on board.
You don't think Fox has a guarantee to be here for several years? Why do you think they've been playing this entire season off as picking up the pieces McDaniels left the franchise in? The Dolphins went from worst to first in the AFC East a few years back. The NFC South has had worst to first winners multiple times in the last decade. **** like that happens all the time. But here in Denver its "well we need to rebuild and its going to take a while". That is a bull**** message in the NFL. But the organization pushes it because they want to keep the fans in check while they bide their time, lining Bowlen's bank account with league money and rolling the dice on getting their dream QB.

Arkie
09-17-2011, 11:03 AM
Tebow's 1st Bronco start: 8 of 16 for 138 yds, 17.25 yds/comp, 1 TD and ZERO Ints, with a 100.5 QB Rating. That was also the BEST rookie 1st start QB rating for 2010, NOBODY else had a 100 rating. :strong:

...and Tebow's 2nd start was a win with 300 yards & 2 TDs.