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swaiy
09-14-2011, 09:22 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8223f94d/article/orton-doesnt-care-where-fans-stand-on-broncos-qb-debate?module=HP11_headline_stack

Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton suffered his share of bruises during a five-sack night in Monday night's loss to the Oakland Raiders. But Orton's ego might have taken the biggest beating as fans in Denver chanted third-string quarterback Tim Tebow's name.

Orton grew testy when a reporter asked him Wednesday if he felt any added pressure with the fans booing him and calling for Tebow to take his job.

"No, not at all," Orton said. "I'm not going to sit here and waste my time answering questions about it, to be honest with you. Until Coach (John) Fox comes to me, he's the only one that I'm going to listen to. So, I'd rather you guys not waste my time with the questions because I'm not going to answer them."

Asked if the criticism of Orton was fair, Fox said: "Life's not fair, but at the end of the day, he'll bounce back. I have all the confidence in the world in him. He did a lot of good things Monday night as well, so we've got some things we need to correct and we'll do that."

Orton said the contingent of fans voicing their disapproval don't bother him.

"I just look at it like I don't care," he said. "(Fox's) opinion and my teammates' opinions will always be the ones that matter."

And Fox is solidly in Orton's corner.

"Right now, we feel like Kyle Orton gives us our best chance," Fox said. "Even the staff before us felt that way. ... Right now, he's our starting quarterback. There's no question about that. Like our whole team, we've got some room for improvement this week."


He must not know what happened to the last staff...

broncocalijohn
09-14-2011, 09:25 PM
I think Orton will be on a much shorter leash. McD did more ****ty things to this franchise than starting Orton for the first 13 games. Hell, I would fire McD just based on the last 5 or so press conferences after the game.

TheReverend
09-14-2011, 09:26 PM
Yikes

swaiy
09-14-2011, 09:29 PM
What a shame. When you're this far down, you can only go up. I hope.

myMind
09-14-2011, 09:33 PM
barf.
Fox won't last long with his current philosophy.

SoCalBronco
09-14-2011, 09:35 PM
I'm not sure why Fox feels he has to go out of his way to take a dig at Tebow. If you still want to start Orton, just say it, no need to add "even the last staff felt so".

KipCorrington25
09-14-2011, 09:35 PM
Orton wants the big pay check but can't take the heat... he's going to fold up like a lawn chair from the pressure of being a number 1. This could be Fox's swan song too if he doesn't start to see the big picture.

They need us (fans) more than we need them.

maven
09-14-2011, 09:38 PM
"Right now, we feel like Kyle Orton gives us our best chance," Fox said. "Even the staff before us felt that way"

WOW

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-14-2011, 09:38 PM
As a Denver FAN, I'm glad I'm not ignorant enough to chant for a 3rd sting QB.

These are truly the saddest days I have seen as a Broncos fan. :(

swaiy
09-14-2011, 09:50 PM
What does Kyle think is going to happen when he goes to another team as a "Franchise QB."

Let's say some team actually gives him a shot and makes him the guy. Is he going to get pissy when the fans trash him? Look at Tony Romo Hilarious! Kyle Orton hasn't seen anything yet.

Ratboy
09-14-2011, 09:57 PM
We're a joke.

Taco John
09-14-2011, 10:01 PM
"Right now, we feel like Kyle Orton gives us our best chance," Fox said. "Even the staff before us felt that way."

That's a bush league thing for an experienced coach to say. What a shame.

Vegas_Bronco
09-14-2011, 10:05 PM
Walter Football weighs in:
http://walterfootball.com/nflpicks2011_02late.php

DENVER OFFENSE: TE-BOW! TE-BOW! TE-BOW! TE-BOW! TE-BOW!

I'm not mimicking the Bronco fans. I was chanting this as well Monday night. I really don't understand it. Kyle Orton is incredibly overrated because so many people love to say he's underrated. He's not accurate; he doesn't have a good arm; and he spontaneously combusts in the red zone and on third down. He's a solid game-manager, but that's it. He's not a tenth of the quarterback Tim Tebow is capable of becoming. He's actually the opposite; he shines in practice and isn't nearly as good in games, whereas Tebow struggles in practice, but knows how to pull off victories when it counts. Unless the Broncos' grand-master plan is to "Suck for Luck," they are being incredibly stupid.

Well, I'm ready for more Orton mediocrity, how about you? Cincinnati's defense is actually pretty good; the Bengals will put the clamps on Knowshon Moreno (if he even plays) and Willis McGahee, just as they did with Peyton Hillis. This will force Orton into unfavorable situations, and thus more inaccurate passes well short of the marker on third down.

CINCINNATI OFFENSE: I'm not sure if Denver's offense or defense is worse. Probably the latter. The Broncos struggled to move the chains Monday night, but they had no hope of containing Darren McFadden.

Cedric Benson is obviously nowhere near as talented as McFadden, but he has superior blocking, thanks to right tackle Andre Smith being in shape for the first time in his professional career.

Benson will pound the rock against Denver's anemic front, giving Andy Dalton plenty of short-yardage opportunities to work with. Dalton did a solid job at Cleveland, and I think he'll continue to be efficient in this contest.

RECAP: I really like the Bengals; I just wish we were getting +6 or more. We lost some value because of Champ Bailey's hamstring (he'll be listed as questionable) and Denver's Monday night debaclation, unfortunately.

Two key numbers:

1. Marvin Lewis is 9-4 against the spread in the second of his back-to-back road games.

2. The Broncos are an anemic 2-14 against the spread as favorites of -3.5 or more since 2008. That's hilarious awful.


The Psychology. Edge: None.
No psychological edge found.


The Vegas. Edge: None.
Equal action early on.
Percentage of money on Denver: 52% (1,000 bets)


The Trends. Edge: Bengals. http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/star.gif http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/star.gif Marvin Lewis is 9-4 ATS in his second consecutive road game.
Bengals are 13-6 ATS as underdogs since 2009.
Broncos are 10-30 ATS as a favorite since 2006.
Broncos are 4-13 ATS before back-to-back road games the previous 17 instances.
Broncos are 2-14 ATS as favorites of 3.5 or more since 2008.
Opening Line: Broncos -6.
Opening Total: 39.5.
Weather: .


Week 2 NFL Pick: Bengals 17, Broncos 16
Bengals +4.5 (3 Units)
Under 40 (0 Units)

strafen
09-14-2011, 10:14 PM
"Right now, we feel like Kyle Orton gives us our best chance," Fox said. "Even the staff before us felt that way."

That's a bush league thing for an experienced coach to say. What a shame.Right now, we feel Kyle Orton gives us our best chance to land Andrew Luck.
Those are the president's orders Ha!

SoCalBronco
09-14-2011, 10:15 PM
Walter Football weighs in:
http://walterfootball.com/nflpicks2011_02late.php

The Psychology. Edge: None.
No psychological edge found.




I'm going to email "Walter" and ask him what the Broncos GAF score is after the MNF game, since he can obviously discern psychological issues.

Vegas_Bronco
09-14-2011, 10:17 PM
I'm going to email "Walter" and ask him what the Broncos GAF score is after the MNF game, since he can obviously discern psychological issues.

I just dropped the canned orange juice on the floor after opening the freezer...my wife ripped off with an instant, "Nice one Orton."

I'd say that is a psychological advantage.

DenverBrit
09-14-2011, 10:21 PM
Until Orton loses the locker room, Tebow will have to wait.

Tebow's best opportunities will come in redzone or wildcat packages.

In the meantime, Fox and Elway should get the benefit of the doubt.

It was freaking game one and people want to throw Fox under the bus and start our 3rd string qb?

Give it time to play out. Three years should do it.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-14-2011, 10:23 PM
http://moviespics.wcgame.ru/data/2011-07-12/kingpin-the-movie.jpg

Hold the ball like this so you don't wind up getting Orton'd out there...

OABB
09-14-2011, 10:24 PM
As a Denver FAN, I'm glad I'm not ignorant enough to chant for a 3rd sting QB.

These are truly the saddest days I have seen as a Broncos fan. :(

as a bronco fan im glad I root for the best qb to play.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-14-2011, 10:25 PM
As a Denver FAN, I'm glad I'm not ignorant enough to chant for a 3rd sting QB.

These are truly the saddest days I have seen as a Broncos fan. :(

You'll get over it.

tnedator
09-14-2011, 10:48 PM
I'm not sure why Fox feels he has to go out of his way to take a dig at Tebow. If you still want to start Orton, just say it, no need to add "even the last staff felt so".

Yea, when I read the quotes earlier this evening, I thought the same thing. He should have just stuck with some version of Orton gives us the best chance to win, he's our number one QB or something, not throw that dig at Tebow.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-14-2011, 11:49 PM
as a bronco fan im glad I root for the best qb to play.
As a Denver FAN, I'm not about to say I know more than an NFL COACH with over 20 years experience.

If I had spent 60+hrs a week in the Broncos facility for the past 2 months maybe I'd KNOW which QB is "the best to play" ... until then, I'll side with the man who HAS spent that time down at Dove Valley! ;)

Agamemnon
09-14-2011, 11:55 PM
Wow...

I really don't know what to say to that. Fox uses an 'appeal to authority' argument and the authority is Josh McDaniels. Sweet lord.

We've hired another tard it seems...

ol#7
09-15-2011, 01:26 AM
Wow...

I really don't know what to say to that. Fox uses an 'appeal to authority' argument and the authority is Josh McDaniels. Sweet lord.

We've hired another tard it seems...

Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss.

But, but, but, you cant have a contradictory opinion, John Fox has over 20 years NFL head coaching experience! Guess nobody is smart enough to be critical of Bob Slowick either...

Taco John
09-15-2011, 01:39 AM
Until Orton loses the locker room, Tebow will have to wait.

Tebow's best opportunities will come in redzone or wildcat packages.

In the meantime, Fox and Elway should get the benefit of the doubt.

It was freaking game one and people want to throw Fox under the bus and start our 3rd string qb?

Give it time to play out. Three years should do it.


I have to agree with this. I think the organization has to respect the politics here. But that said, for Fox to reference the Josh McDaniels administration as justification for his decision - that's pretty Mickey Mouse. It's not what I expected from him. It's just one of those things - it's not the end of the world. But I would expect a coach like Fox to be a lot more measured than that. Can you imagine Shanahan coming in and referencing Wade Phillips to justify any decision he is currently making?

Taco John
09-15-2011, 01:50 AM
As a Denver FAN, I'm not about to say I know more than an NFL COACH with over 20 years experience.

If I had spent 60+hrs a week in the Broncos facility for the past 2 months maybe I'd KNOW which QB is "the best to play" ... until then, I'll side with the man who HAS spent that time down at Dove Valley! ;)


As a Denver fan, I watched Orton win three games last season, and experienced over two seasons the worst losing streaks in Broncos history. I don't necessarily think it's "all" Orton's fault, but that said, he had his shots.

Broncos fans aren't interested in anything but watching their team win. It should be no great wonder that Tebow came in and injected fresh life into the team and geared the fan base up. The Broncos marketing department used it to their advantage when it came time to sell season tickets. The Broncos made statements that sold the idea that Tebow would be the starter.

At the end of the day, I agree that the fans are probably acting a bit petulant, but the fans didn't create this situation. We are here where we are today because of decisions that were made at the top. The fans are predictable: they cheer when we're winning, they complain when we're losing. There is no magic wand that can be waved that will make fans forget about the fact that Tebow was drafted in the first round, and came in last year to show them the kind of grit that hasn't been seen on a Broncos field since The Duke was under center. The Broncos are either going to have to start winning or start Tebow.

cutthemdown
09-15-2011, 02:23 AM
If anything Fox setting up Orton to fail, then switch to Tebow to see what he has later in the season. Then he can write off the whole first yr saying really mcdaniels left team so bad, so many draft picks of his couldn't play, I had to evaluate the 3 qbs etc etc. Then he could say the next yr is a rebuilding yr, then in his 3rd yr it would be put up or shut up. That's how a smart professional football coach, who wants those 3 yrs from owner would play it.

HAT
09-15-2011, 02:31 AM
If anything Fox setting up Orton to fail, then switch to Tebow to see what he has later in the season. Then he can write off the whole first yr saying really mcdaniels left team so bad, so many draft picks of his couldn't play, I had to evaluate the 3 qbs etc etc. Then he could say the next yr is a rebuilding yr, then in his 3rd yr it would be put up or shut up. That's how a smart professional football coach, who wants those 3 yrs from owner would play it.

I don't know why this is so hard for people to see. It's win/win for Fox. Either Orton & the team turn it around in the next few weeks, or Fox gets to be the hero by inserting Tebow after the bye.

By then Tebow will have had like 8 weeks of 2011 football under his belt and can run with the starters for two full weeks....And the game is in Florida!

cutthemdown
09-15-2011, 02:44 AM
I don't know why this is so hard for people to see. It's win/win for Fox. Either Orton & the team turn it around in the next few weeks, or Fox gets to be the hero by inserting Tebow after the bye.

By then Tebow will have had like 8 weeks of 2011 football under his belt and can run with the starters for two full weeks....And the game is in Florida!

Exactly. As fans we may say if something is going to happen, why waste any time. But from Fox's angle he has the locker room to think of. It could be that the vets just not convinced Tebow the man yet. So Fox says I can play Orton, he will either win or not, he has a plan for each scenario. He wins problem solved, he doesn't you make the switch.

It's all frustrating but not because of Orton really. It's the whole team. The linebackers played far worst then Orton did. Miller looked lost IMO because he couldnt just chase the QB I guess. I also thought the whole defensive line looked about like last yr. Ayers isnt a player, Bunkley and Vickerson just sort of avg. Doom just not big enough to make a dent. Miller better be good or we started this regime off with a big **** you as well.

Doggcow
09-15-2011, 02:47 AM
Also, wasn't Tebow STARTING for the previous regime?

I seem to remember that.

NUB
09-15-2011, 03:13 AM
"Right now, we feel like Kyle Orton gives us our best chance," Fox said. "Even the staff before us felt that way"


I am somewhat impressed by how remarkably retarded that statement is. When I read it my chest panged in disbelief. I can only assume that the present reporters were so flabbergasted by this bullet to the brain that nobody bothered to ask the very obvious and obligatory follow-up question.

Jay3
09-15-2011, 05:04 AM
It kind of sounds like a veiled reference to Mike McCoy. A lot of this would make sense if Mike McCoy just doesn't want Tebow out there.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 05:06 AM
"Right now, we feel like Kyle Orton gives us our best chance," Fox said. "Even the staff before us felt that way"


I am somewhat impressed by how remarkably retarded that statement is. When I read it my chest panged in disbelief. I can only assume that the present reporters were so flabbergasted by this bullet to the brain that nobody bothered to ask the very obvious and obligatory follow-up question.

"What the **** is wrong with you you ****ing retard?"

Is that the question?

Doggcow
09-15-2011, 05:09 AM
As a Denver fan, I watched Orton win three games last season, and experienced over two seasons the worst losing streaks in Broncos history. I don't necessarily think it's "all" Orton's fault, but that said, he had his shots.

Broncos fans aren't interested in anything but watching their team win. It should be no great wonder that Tebow came in and injected fresh life into the team and geared the fan base up. The Broncos marketing department used it to their advantage when it came time to sell season tickets. The Broncos made statements that sold the idea that Tebow would be the starter.

At the end of the day, I agree that the fans are probably acting a bit petulant, but the fans didn't create this situation. We are here where we are today because of decisions that were made at the top. The fans are predictable: they cheer when we're winning, they complain when we're losing. There is no magic wand that can be waved that will make fans forget about the fact that Tebow was drafted in the first round, and came in last year to show them the kind of grit that hasn't been seen on a Broncos field since The Duke was under center. The Broncos are either going to have to start winning or start Tebow.

Start winning or start Tebow.

Quote of the ever on these forums!

Broncoman13
09-15-2011, 05:53 AM
As a Denver fan, I watched Orton win three games last season, and experienced over two seasons the worst losing streaks in Broncos history. I don't necessarily think it's "all" Orton's fault, but that said, he had his shots.

Broncos fans aren't interested in anything but watching their team win. It should be no great wonder that Tebow came in and injected fresh life into the team and geared the fan base up. The Broncos marketing department used it to their advantage when it came time to sell season tickets. The Broncos made statements that sold the idea that Tebow would be the starter.

At the end of the day, I agree that the fans are probably acting a bit petulant, but the fans didn't create this situation. We are here where we are today because of decisions that were made at the top. The fans are predictable: they cheer when we're winning, they complain when we're losing. There is no magic wand that can be waved that will make fans forget about the fact that Tebow was drafted in the first round, and came in last year to show them the kind of grit that hasn't been seen on a Broncos field since The Duke was under center. The Broncos are either going to have to start winning or start Tebow.

Exactly... And if Tebow comes in and sucks it up on the field he will get booed the same way Orton has. It doesn't matter who is playing, get some results and the support will come, play like crap and the impatient fan base will call for a change.

Drek
09-15-2011, 05:57 AM
The media really needs to get over this Orton V. Tebow mindset.

Broncos fans don't see it as Orton v. Tebow. We see it as anyone but Orton. Tebow happens to be a first round pick who started three games and showed promise last year, so he's the name we all think first. But if you told me we're starting Quinn next week I'd still happily take it.

Steve Prefontaine
09-15-2011, 06:17 AM
The media really needs to get over this Orton V. Tebow mindset.

Broncos fans don't see it as Orton v. Tebow. We see it as anyone but Orton. Tebow happens to be a first round pick who started three games and showed promise last year, so he's the name we all think first. But if you told me we're starting Quinn next week I'd still happily take it.

100% agree.

WolfpackGuy
09-15-2011, 06:22 AM
This is Bore-ton's last starting gig.

He's going to ride it into the ground.

tnedator
09-15-2011, 06:40 AM
I have to agree with this. I think the organization has to respect the politics here. But that said, for Fox to reference the Josh McDaniels administration as justification for his decision - that's pretty Mickey Mouse. It's not what I expected from him. It's just one of those things - it's not the end of the world. But I would expect a coach like Fox to be a lot more measured than that. Can you imagine Shanahan coming in and referencing Wade Phillips to justify any decision he is currently making?

It's the kind of answer I expected from McDaniels, when addressing Hillis questions. Fox is supposed to be a smarter, more disciplined coach. Not smart.

oubronco
09-15-2011, 06:41 AM
.

Gort
09-15-2011, 06:48 AM
Can you imagine Shanahan coming in and referencing Wade Phillips to justify any decision he is currently making?

Shanny would just stare holes through the soul of the person who asked the question.

Kaylore
09-15-2011, 07:20 AM
Exactly... And if Tebow comes in and sucks it up on the field he will get booed the same way Orton has. It doesn't matter who is playing, get some results and the support will come, play like crap and the impatient fan base will call for a change.

Except that would silence the critics. If Tebow came in and was next to worthless the heat would come down and fans could see we have to move forward where we're at. So there are two good things that would help the situation if Tebow played.

I still don't get why they won't even just use Tebow in the red zone. It would be better than watching KO go out there and take a sack.

jhns
09-15-2011, 07:26 AM
I don't know why this is so hard for people to see. It's win/win for Fox. Either Orton & the team turn it around in the next few weeks, or Fox gets to be the hero by inserting Tebow after the bye.

By then Tebow will have had like 8 weeks of 2011 football under his belt and can run with the starters for two full weeks....And the game is in Florida!

Hero? If Tebow does well, everyone will think the front office is still run by idiots. It will be: "I told you so!"...

alkemical
09-15-2011, 07:39 AM
Man in the front got a sinister grin, careen down highway 666
We wanna go, crush the slow, as the pitchfork bends the needles grow
My arms are wheels, my legs are wheels, my blood is pavement
We're gonna ride to the abbey of thelema, to the abbey of thelema
Blood is pavement the grill in the front is my sinister grin,
The bugs in my teeth make me sick sick sick
The objects may be larger than they appear in the mirror
My arms are wheels, my legs are wheels, my blood is pavement
We're gonna ride to the abbey of thelema, to the abby of thelema
Blood is pavement
"when you ride you're ridden, when you ride, you're ridden
I am fueled by filth fury
Do what I will, I will hurry there, there
My arms are wheels, my legs are wheels, my blood is pavement
Blood is pavement

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 08:12 AM
Shanny would just stare holes through the soul of the person who asked the question.

lol so true.

I heard some players from Redskins camp referring to him as "Jaws" in interviews because he's patrolling all over the different fields with that glare and somehow happens to be looking at you every time you **** up.

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 08:13 AM
Except that would silence the critics. If Tebow came in and was next to worthless the heat would come down and fans could see we have to move forward where we're at. So there are two good things that would help the situation if Tebow played.

I still don't get why they won't even just use Tebow in the red zone. It would be better than watching KO go out there and take a sack.

Silly Mormon, winning games won't get us Luck ;)

Eldorado
09-15-2011, 08:23 AM
Silly Mormon, winning games won't get us Luck ;)

Good lord, dude. It was one game and it was a nightmare scenario in terms of match ups. We're basically back to the Shanny blue print of get on top early and try to grind it out, only this time we actually have the pass rush to make it work.

It's not a bad plan for a team coming off a 4-12 season.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-15-2011, 08:26 AM
I'm not sure why Fox feels he has to go out of his way to take a dig at Tebow. If you still want to start Orton, just say it, no need to add "even the last staff felt so".

What did Fox say that was a "dig" at Tebow? Saying Orton is the starting quarterback "right now"? Or that he feels Orton is the best option?

Drama. Over nothing.

Eldorado
09-15-2011, 08:28 AM
What did Fox say that was a "dig" at Tebow? Saying Orton is the starting quarterback "right now"? Or that he feels Orton is the best option?

Drama. Over nothing.

He said even the last staff thought Orton should be the starter. Over Timbow. Not really a dig at Timbow, unless you're SUUUUPER sensitive. So.....yeah.

WolfpackGuy
09-15-2011, 08:31 AM
The last staff also thought Cassel would be a better option than Cutler.

LOL

alkemical
09-15-2011, 08:31 AM
I think the coaching staff/front office is just tired of the media bull****. I bet they are as annoyed as some of us on the OM having to hear about Orton/Tebow...

it's probably frustrating on their part to have little to work with for another year or two.

IF the Dove Valley can manage this right, the broncos will be far better long term. I hope this works out as well as when Mario Lemeiux took over the Penguins. It took a little bit to rebuild the roster: they used the FA market to fill holes and depth, while adding some sure fire talent to the roster - while also retooling their development program for prospects.

We see the remains of the coaching staff that failed us here in spots, but it seems from a business perspective that more changes to the Front Office will be done upon the next off season.

The lockout really hurt the Broncos in several key areas. I never thought I'd see the day when the Broncos might be the worst team in the NFL.

jhns
09-15-2011, 08:33 AM
The last staff also thought Cassel would be a better option than Cutler.

LOL

And all our RBs are better than Hillis, and Marshall isn't worth it, and Sheffler is worse than Dick Quinn, and etc...

Eldorado
09-15-2011, 08:36 AM
And all our RBs are better than Hillis, and Marshall isn't worth it, and Sheffler is worse than Dick Quinn, and etc...

"Fire Shanny!" Am I right jhns? amiright? or amiright?

jhns
09-15-2011, 08:41 AM
"Fire Shanny!" Am I right jhns? amiright? or amiright?

You are. If he gets fired, we can bring him back.

Gort
09-15-2011, 08:42 AM
I think the coaching staff/front office is just tired of the media bull****. I bet they are as annoyed as some of us on the OM having to hear about Orton/Tebow...

it's probably frustrating on their part to have little to work with for another year or two.

IF the Dove Valley can manage this right, the broncos will be far better long term. I hope this works out as well as when Mario Lemeiux took over the Penguins. It took a little bit to rebuild the roster: they used the FA market to fill holes and depth, while adding some sure fire talent to the roster - while also retooling their development program for prospects.

We see the remains of the coaching staff that failed us here in spots, but it seems from a business perspective that more changes to the Front Office will be done upon the next off season.

The lockout really hurt the Broncos in several key areas. I never thought I'd see the day when the Broncos might be the worst team in the NFL.

the Orton/Tebow debate is one for water coolers and online forums, where it would have stayed if not for the hacks in the local media blowing it up to much greater proportions. Elway and Fox have fumbled this whole issue for sure, but there was a statement at the end of training camp by Elway that should have put the lid on the issue for sometime when Elway said they the team was committed to Tebow longterm and was not giving up on him. however, the media continues to poke at this hornet's nest at Dove Valley, so it's no wonder Elway and Xanders and Fox and Orton are getting snippy about it.

it's kinda like that show on ABC where the reporter sets up really ridiculous scenarios with actors in public places and then films how people react. then they take the most sensationalized reactions and make a show about it, where they tsk-tsk about how some people react. the whole thing is completely phony and made up to get ratings, yet the reporter acts like what he's doing is profound and important and somehow indicative of the culture as a whole.

well, if the Denver Post and every other media outlet is going to keep stopping fans on the street and asking their opinion about Orton/Tebow, and then editing which responses they report so they can have a sensationalized story to run on the evening news or under today's byline, then of course this issue is going to fester all season.

Orton's the QB. he sucks. smart fans know this. let's give him another few games to convince Elway and Fox that he sucks and then we can all re-evaluate how smart or stupid Elway and Fox are by whether they are willing to see the facts in front of their face.

to be honest, i'm sick of the bickering too. we know they are going to stick with Orton for at least a few more games and maybe all season. we know he's going to suck most of the time. what's the benefit of re-arguing the same thing over and over and over. let the Orton lovers come to the realization on their own the same way the rest of us have. eventually, the Orton problem will solve itself. he'll either be benched or at the end of the season he'll be gone.

Eldorado
09-15-2011, 08:43 AM
You are. If he gets fired, we can bring him back.

Why would you want to bring him back? You were practically cutting yourself you were so emo for shanny to get fired.

jhns
09-15-2011, 08:43 AM
Why would you want to bring him back? You were practically cutting yourself you were so emo for shanny to get fired.

Ummm....?

Eldorado
09-15-2011, 08:46 AM
Ummm....?

Oh come on. You were definetley calling for shanny's head. Don't deny.

Gort
09-15-2011, 08:47 AM
Why would you want to bring him back? You were practically cutting yourself you were so emo for shanny to get fired.

i think alot of people have forgotten why Shanny was fired. the main reason was that he was being insubordinate to the owner and acting like he (Shanny) was the one in charge. Bowlen couldn't tolerate that. the same way he couldn't tolerate Cutler ignoring his phone calls. when your boss tells you to do something, you do it or you face the consequences.

as good as Shanny was in his prime here, he'd worn out his welcome. eventually, every HC becomes stale in a given organization. at that point, it's best for the HC and the organization to part ways. the HC gets a fresh new challenge and the organization gets a new regime with new ideas.

it happens everywhere. i mean, if it can happen with Tom Landry in Dallas, it can (and does) happen everywhere.

jhns
09-15-2011, 08:50 AM
Oh come on. You were definetley calling for shanny's head. Don't deny.

That is the dumbest thing I have read today.

I have only ever called for one Btonco(and one Husker) head coach to be fired in my life. That was McDaniels.

DenverBrit
09-15-2011, 08:53 AM
I have to agree with this. I think the organization has to respect the politics here. But that said, for Fox to reference the Josh McDaniels administration as justification for his decision - that's pretty Mickey Mouse. It's not what I expected from him. It's just one of those things - it's not the end of the world. But I would expect a coach like Fox to be a lot more measured than that. Can you imagine Shanahan coming in and referencing Wade Phillips to justify any decision he is currently making?

I don't know why Fox commented the way he did, McD wouldn't be my choice to justify the decision.
But when I read that, McCoy first came to mind, not McD. I think we all need to stop over analyzing every statement and action.
Fox and Elway need to be mindful of the current fan base attitude, which will only change when the team starts winning.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 08:54 AM
the Orton/Tebow debate is one for water coolers and online forums, where it would have stayed if not for the hacks in the local media blowing it up to much greater proportions. Elway and Fox have fumbled this whole issue for sure, but there was a statement at the end of training camp by Elway that should have put the lid on the issue for sometime when Elway said they the team was committed to Tebow longterm and was not giving up on him. however, the media continues to poke at this hornet's nest at Dove Valley, so it's no wonder Elway and Xanders and Fox and Orton are getting snippy about it.

it's kinda like that show on ABC where the reporter sets up really ridiculous scenarios with actors in public places and then films how people react. then they take the most sensationalized reactions and make a show about it, where they tsk-tsk about how some people react. the whole thing is completely phony and made up to get ratings, yet the reporter acts like what he's doing is profound and important and somehow indicative of the culture as a whole.

well, if the Denver Post and every other media outlet is going to keep stopping fans on the street and asking their opinion about Orton/Tebow, and then editing which responses they report so they can have a sensationalized story to run on the evening news or under today's byline, then of course this issue is going to fester all season.

Orton's the QB. he sucks. smart fans know this. let's give him another few games to convince Elway and Fox that he sucks and then we can all re-evaluate how smart or stupid Elway and Fox are by whether they are willing to see the facts in front of their face.

to be honest, i'm sick of the bickering too. we know they are going to stick with Orton for at least a few more games and maybe all season. we know he's going to suck most of the time. what's the benefit of re-arguing the same thing over and over and over. let the Orton lovers come to the realization on their own the same way the rest of us have. eventually, the Orton problem will solve itself. he'll either be benched or at the end of the season he'll be gone.



Perhaps we should troll the media and just start talking about some other position and how important it is. :D

I've written this year off. The roster is too thin and devoid of any serious talent to have any prolonged success. The failures of Shanny's drafts, and McDaniels, have really hurt this franchise.

With the amount of cash tied in old coaching salaries, players, etc etc...This team has to succeed a little before the cash flow improves to where the upfront money can be used to bring back attractive FA's.

I know it's a terrible thing to face, but the Broncos aren't a good team, and FA's don't want to play for a crappy team.

Get some solid youth on the roster and lay a foundation that you can sell the vision on to your prospective FA's. What are we able to sell now? Not much.

We all know Orton, the Front Office knows about Orton - the NFL knows about Orton. He's a great team guy, he is obviously smart - and adaptable at picking up Offenses. He just doesn't have the athletic ability to do anything more than be a back up.

I am not a Tebow fan, I don't know how good/great he will be. Being a great athlete doesn't make success. Again, problems with the lock out. We don't know how much support the front office actually gives Tebow. We don't understand the practices, we don't see any film studies, etc etc.

Lots of the conjecture and 'fantasies' of posters here on the OM, is really interesting, and as entertaining as listening to Kindergarteners argue over sparkles & paste.


mmmmm........paste......arghl.......

Eldorado
09-15-2011, 08:57 AM
That is the dumbest thing I have read today.

I have only ever called for one Btonco(and one Husker) head coach to be fired in my life. That was McDaniels.

Well, my apologies. The search doesn't go back to the 08-09 offseason, better known as 'The Beginning', so I have no evidence. If I have besmirched your good name, sir, I am truly sorry.


Oh, and keep reading. There will be dumber things said, I have faith.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 08:58 AM
I don't know why Fox commented the way he did, McD wouldn't be my choice to justify the decision.
But when I read that, McCoy first came to mind, not McD. I think we all need to stop over analyzing every statement and action.
Fox and Elway need to be mindful of the current fan base attitude, which will only change when the team starts winning.

Again, I think the comment was a reaction of:

"Not this **** again, and i'm only in week one."

I think they understand the fan base, it's why Elway has tried to adopt a more public presence with Social Media. But when it's a lose-lose situation, they are going to go with the coaches and players before the fans. They understand that this year is going to be ****. Fans have to understand this too.

It's going to require patience, and no matter how self important-entitled-b****y-infantile you are to complain - nothing's really going to change until it's feasible.

If you* want to control the Denver Broncos, go play Madden. Other than that, you are going to have to exercise some patience and realize that there's a mess that's being cleaned up - it just doesn't happen in 1:45 - Ding - hot pockets are done time frame.



*you = not the you personally, but the YOU as in the fanbase.

Gort
09-15-2011, 09:01 AM
Perhaps we should troll the media and just start talking about some other position and how important it is. :D

kicker controversies are always good.

Gort
09-15-2011, 09:07 AM
I am not a Tebow fan, I don't know how good/great he will be. Being a great athlete doesn't make success. Again, problems with the lock out. We don't know how much support the front office actually gives Tebow. We don't understand the practices, we don't see any film studies, etc etc.

one thing i have in the back of my mind which influences my opinions on this matter is what Billick went through by sticking with Boller through hell and high water as the Ravens fanbase calls for him to be benched grew from a whisper to a roar. eventually, both Billlick and Boller lost their jobs and the franchise had to move in a new direction. Billick couldn't admit he was wrong for ego reasons and Boller couldn't live up to expectations. the early stages of that reminds me alot of Orton and Fox here now. if we're dumb enough at the end of this season to NOT have a clear QB plan and to panic and give Orton the 5-year, $50M contract he wants (or whatever it is he wants), i could see the same ending here as that which happened in Baltimore.

DenverBrit
09-15-2011, 09:07 AM
Again, I think the comment was a reaction of:

"Not this **** again, and i'm only in week one."

I think they understand the fan base, it's why Elway has tried to adopt a more public presence with Social Media. But when it's a lose-lose situation, they are going to go with the coaches and players before the fans. They understand that this year is going to be ****. Fans have to understand this too.

It's going to require patience, and no matter how self important-entitled-b****y-infantile you are to complain - nothing's really going to change until it's feasible.

If you* want to control the Denver Broncos, go play Madden. Other than that, you are going to have to exercise some patience and realize that there's a mess that's being cleaned up - it just doesn't happen in 1:45 - Ding - hot pockets are done time frame.



*you = not the you personally, but the YOU as in the fanbase.

We.....and I mean everyone ;D.....need to be patient and give EFX time to undo years of mismanagement.
Game one was also their first look at this team in action, live and in color.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 09:13 AM
one thing i have in the back of my mind which influences my opinions on this matter is what Billick went through by sticking with Boller through hell and high water as the Ravens fanbase calls for him to be benched grew from a whisper to a roar. eventually, both Billlick and Boller lost their jobs and the franchise had to move in a new direction. Billick couldn't admit he was wrong for ego reasons and Boller couldn't live up to expectations. the early stages of that reminds me alot of Orton and Fox here now. if we're dumb enough at the end of this season to NOT have a clear QB plan and to panic and give Orton the 5-year, $50M contract he wants (or whatever it is he wants), i could see the same ending here as that which happened in Baltimore.

Actually - you are right. Boller is like Tebow, and Orton = Dilfer in that analogy.

Also, that Billick was to be an "offensive" genius - and well - his teams couldn't score more than a few a game on O.

oubronco
09-15-2011, 09:17 AM
We.....and I mean everyone ;D.....need to be patient and give EFX time to undo years of mismanagement.
Game one was also their first look at this team in action, live and in color.

And it was only game 1

Gort
09-15-2011, 09:22 AM
Actually - you are right. Boller is like Tebow, and Orton = Dilfer in that analogy.

Also, that Billick was to be an "offensive" genius - and well - his teams couldn't score more than a few a game on O.

i don't see it that way.

i see Orton as like Boller. neither of them are/were good enough to satisfy the fanbase. when the fanbase demanded change, the coach ignored them until the coach had lost the fanbase. it's very early here for Fox, so the analogy doesn't really apply well yet, but Fox has decided to go with Orton and is sticking by him and the fanbase is saying they want a change. so in that way, it's alot like the very beginning with Billick/Boller when Boller wasn't performing if (and that's a big if) Fox is going to be just as stubborn sticking with Orton as Billick was with Boller.

i take Tebow out of the equation completely. let's say we trade him today and our backup is Quinn. come week 10, if we are 0-9 and Fox is as much like Billick as i'm afraid he might be, the fans will be screaming to see Quinn and Fox will still be sending Orton out there to start the game.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 09:24 AM
i don't see it that way.

i see Orton as like Boller. neither of them are/were good enough to satisfy the fanbase. when the fanbase demanded change, the coach ignored them until the coach had lost the fanbase. it's very early here for Fox, so the analogy doesn't really apply well yet, but Fox has decided to go with Orton and is sticking by him and the fanbase is saying they want a change. so in that way, it's alot like the very beginning with Billick/Boller when Boller wasn't performing if (and that's a big if) Fox is going to be just as stubborn sticking with Orton as Billick was with Boller.

i take Tebow out of the equation completely. let's say we trade him today and our backup is Quinn. come week 10, if we are 0-9 and Fox is as much like Billick as i'm afraid he might be, the fans will be screaming to see Quinn and Fox will still be sending Orton out there to start the game.


You obviously didn't watch much of the Ravens during that era.

WolfpackGuy
09-15-2011, 09:32 AM
Dilfer was gone by the time they brought Elvis on board, and he was only on the team for a year.

If I remember, the Ratbirds wanted Leftwich, but the Vikes screwed up the trade and got skipped TWICE in which time JAX picked Leftwich.

I'm still not sure why they traded up to draft Boller.

Gort
09-15-2011, 09:35 AM
You obviously didn't watch much of the Ravens during that era.

i don't watch Ravens games. only when they play the Broncos. but i do go to The Sun's website nearly every day for other local sports and saw how the Billick/Boller issue built within their fanbase. one sportswriter in particular made it his mission in life to run Billick out of town (Mike Preston). so i know how unenthused the fans were with Boller and that reminds me of Broncos fans with Orton.

Gort
09-15-2011, 09:37 AM
I'm still not sure why they traded up to draft Boller.

because Billick thought he was going to be special. that's the problem with high draft pick QBs who are busts. they are like millstones around the necks of the HC who drafted them unless the HC is smart enough to see that they were wrong and pick another QB in a future draft.

WolfpackGuy
09-15-2011, 09:42 AM
because Billick thought he was going to be special. that's the problem with high draft pick QBs who are busts. they are like millstones around the necks of the HC who drafted them unless the HC is smart enough to see that they were wrong and pick another QB in a future draft.

Yeah, Newsome actually wanted Leftwich, and I guess they just wanted somebody young at QB after the trade fell through with MIN.

I think Redman was around at the time too.

That was a hysterical draft though.

Gort
09-15-2011, 09:43 AM
You obviously didn't watch much of the Ravens during that era.

oh, i think i understand your point. you think i'm drawing an analogy based on playing style and ability. i'm not. i'm saying Boller and Orton are similar because of their results on the field.

if you're equating Tebow and Boller because they both seem predisposed to run at the first sign of pressure, then that may be true.

i'm only focusing on the relationship between the HC and QB and how a HC may be reluctant to make a change at QB long after its obvious to everyone else that it is necessary.

after 1 game, it's much too early to say Fox and Orton are exactly in that situation, but it is my fear that we might be seeing early warning signs that Fox will not bench Orton no matter what.

wolverine
09-15-2011, 09:45 AM
As a Denver FAN, I'm not about to say I know more than an NFL COACH with over 20 years experience.

If I had spent 60+hrs a week in the Broncos facility for the past 2 months maybe I'd KNOW which QB is "the best to play" ... until then, I'll side with the man who HAS spent that time down at Dove Valley! ;)

The same argument was used to justify all the bad decisions made during Josh McDaniels' Reign of Error.

jhns
09-15-2011, 09:48 AM
The same argument was used to justify all the bad decisions made during Josh McDaniels' Reign of Error.

And it was used by that poster to defend his hero. Some people just don't really care about the football part of the NFL.

maher_tyler
09-15-2011, 10:05 AM
I have a feeling the booing and the calling for Tebow will only get worse. Especially after this!!

Broncos4tw
09-15-2011, 11:16 AM
Do people think we are the only team with line issues? There are many QBs who still manage to do great even with less than stellar lines. But it hardly matters, Orton looked pretty bad even when he did have time and a pocket to operate from.

I don't know if Tebow is a long term solution, but I know Orton isn't.

I don't know he can get us into the playoffs. If not, there is little point in playing him.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-15-2011, 11:19 AM
As a Denver fan, I watched Orton win three games last season, and experienced over two seasons the worst losing streaks in Broncos history. I don't necessarily think it's "all" Orton's fault, but that said, he had his shots.

Broncos fans aren't interested in anything but watching their team win. It should be no great wonder that Tebow came in and injected fresh life into the team and geared the fan base up. The Broncos marketing department used it to their advantage when it came time to sell season tickets. The Broncos made statements that sold the idea that Tebow would be the starter.

At the end of the day, I agree that the fans are probably acting a bit petulant, but the fans didn't create this situation. We are here where we are today because of decisions that were made at the top. The fans are predictable: they cheer when we're winning, they complain when we're losing. There is no magic wand that can be waved that will make fans forget about the fact that Tebow was drafted in the first round, and came in last year to show them the kind of grit that hasn't been seen on a Broncos field since The Duke was under center. The Broncos are either going to have to start winning or start Tebow.
Solid post TJ, props to ya!


Living in Pittsburgh, it's a coin toss for which story is more annoying, "Orton vs the #3 QB" or the droning of "OMG we lost to Baltimore, waaaaah!" ... Week 1, we'll see what happens this week!;)
Keep the negative rep coming my way!!!:thanku:

alkemical
09-15-2011, 11:28 AM
i don't watch Ravens games. only when they play the Broncos. but i do go to The Sun's website nearly every day for other local sports and saw how the Billick/Boller issue built within their fanbase. one sportswriter in particular made it his mission in life to run Billick out of town (Mike Preston). so i know how unenthused the fans were with Boller and that reminds me of Broncos fans with Orton.

Yeah, Except you keep forgetting he also brought in Steve Mcnair due to Boller not being able to stay healthy - and not progressing. He was fired due to offensive futility, and blowing draft picks on a 1st round QB - which well - when you trade up and burn a few picks on a QB, and he flops....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Boller

alkemical
09-15-2011, 11:31 AM
oh, i think i understand your point. you think i'm drawing an analogy based on playing style and ability. i'm not. i'm saying Boller and Orton are similar because of their results on the field.

if you're equating Tebow and Boller because they both seem predisposed to run at the first sign of pressure, then that may be true.

i'm only focusing on the relationship between the HC and QB and how a HC may be reluctant to make a change at QB long after its obvious to everyone else that it is necessary.

after 1 game, it's much too early to say Fox and Orton are exactly in that situation, but it is my fear that we might be seeing early warning signs that Fox will not bench Orton no matter what.



Boller was injury prone and not progressing. Billick brought in McNair and had success. Billick was fired for his offensive ineptitude, and wasting the picks for Kyle Boller. He didn't stick with Boller at all, he gave him his shots and when he realized he sucked - he got McNair.

Fox also started Delhomme over a veteran QB. So again, i think your analogy isn't really working.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 11:37 AM
The only reason I know so much about the Stillers/Eagles/Ravens/Redskins/Jets/Giants/Pats - is because they totally dominate the Mid-Atlantic sports media complex - and i'm within 3hours to pretty much every on of those teams minus the Pats.

maven
09-15-2011, 11:42 AM
The only reason I know so much about the Stillers/Eagles/Ravens/Redskins/Jets/Giants/Pats - is because they totally dominate the Mid-Atlantic sports media complex - and i'm within 3hours to pretty much every on of those teams minus the Pats.

The mid-atlantic and the rust belt teams would make me barf listening about them.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 11:43 AM
The mid-atlantic and the rust belt teams would make me barf listening about them.

It helps not having cable TV. :D

maven
09-15-2011, 11:44 AM
It helps not having cable TV. :D

:giggle:

I would never listen to the local sports radio.

Stagger Lee
09-15-2011, 11:48 AM
:giggle:

I would never listen to the local sports radio.

I live in DE, so I understand what alkemical is saying. I won't listen to the local shows, they are brutal.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 11:48 AM
:giggle:

I would never listen to the local sports radio.


It doesn't exist to me. :D

alkemical
09-15-2011, 11:49 AM
I live in DE, so I understand what alkemical is saying. I won't listen to the local shows, they are brutal.


It's fun going to a sports bar, isn't it?

DarkHorse30
09-15-2011, 11:49 AM
Fox's hands are tied by Elway. Elway is afraid......yes, afraid.....of Tebow's popularity. Sounds stupid, I know, but I don't think Elway wants ANYONE replacing his name just yet, especially since he wasn't involved in drafting Tebow. He's McDaniels guy and Elway won't "risk" Tebow winning enough games that prevent the unlikely chance that Luck (keyword: Stanford QB) gets to be "Elway's Choice". The cards have been dealt for about 2 years.

Stagger Lee
09-15-2011, 11:51 AM
It's fun going to a sports bar, isn't it?

It's freaking torture. That's why I pony up the $$ for Sunday Ticket every year. I couldn't handle those bozos every week.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 11:52 AM
It's freaking torture. That's why I pony up the $$ for Sunday Ticket every year. I couldn't handle those bozos every week.

I don't deal with 'em either, I did for a while - but "meh". I got other **** to do now.

Gort
09-15-2011, 11:58 AM
Boller was injury prone and not progressing. Billick brought in McNair and had success. Billick was fired for his offensive ineptitude, and wasting the picks for Kyle Boller. He didn't stick with Boller at all, he gave him his shots and when he realized he sucked - he got McNair.

Fox also started Delhomme over a veteran QB. So again, i think your analogy isn't really working.

i remember it differently. Billick stuck with him for a long time and gave him many, many chances.

Boller's appearance for Ravens

11 games in 2003
16 games in 2004
9 games in 2005
5 games in 2006
12 games in 2007

McNair was only there in 2006 and 2007

anyway, it doesn't matter. im not arguing that right now Fox/Orton are the same as Billick/Boller. i'm simply stating that it's in the back of my mind and time will tell if Fox goes down the same road with Orton. let me explain what that is... that means STICKING WITH ORTON EVEN WHEN ITS OBVIOUS ORTON CAN'T GET IT DONE. after 1 game, only an idiot would say that's happening and i'm NOT saying that's happening. i'm just saying i am starting to get an uneasy feeling. that's all. nothing to do with Tebow. nothing to do with Orton's playing style. all it has to do with is a stubbon HC who digs in his heels to back his QB when the whole fanbase is screaming to bench the guy.

oubronco
09-15-2011, 12:01 PM
Fox's hands are tied by Elway. Elway is afraid......yes, afraid.....of Tebow's popularity. Sounds stupid, I know, but I don't think Elway wants ANYONE replacing his name just yet, especially since he wasn't involved in drafting Tebow. He's McDaniels guy and Elway won't "risk" Tebow winning enough games that prevent the unlikely chance that Luck (keyword: Stanford QB) gets to be "Elway's Choice". The cards have been dealt for about 2 years.

LOL

alkemical
09-15-2011, 12:02 PM
i remember it differently. Billick stuck with him for a long time and gave him many, many chances.

Boller's appearance for Ravens

11 games in 2003
16 games in 2004
9 games in 2005
5 games in 2006
12 games in 2007

McNair was only there in 2006 and 2007

anyway, it doesn't matter. im not arguing that right now Fox/Orton are the same as Billick/Boller. i'm simply stating that it's in the back of my mind and time will tell if Fox goes down the same road with Orton. let me explain what that is... that means STICKING WITH ORTON EVEN WHEN ITS OBVIOUS ORTON CAN'T GET IT DONE. after 1 game, only an idiot would say that's happening and i'm NOT saying that's happening. i'm just saying i am starting to get an uneasy feeling. that's all. nothing to do with Tebow. nothing to do with Orton's playing style. all it has to do with is a stubbon HC who digs in his heels to back his QB when the whole fanbase is screaming to bench the guy.

A)billick knew that boller was failed, which is why he traded for McNair. Also, You didn't count McNair's injury problems that led Boller to starting, due to the lack of talent at the backup QB position and the $ invested in Boller, Billick couldn't just "cut" him. It was his "reputation". But he proved he didn't stick with boller "just because" - he went and got McNair. Derpaderp.

That's your projection, as even pointed out John Fox started Delhomme over a vet.

I'd ignore the fan base as well. Most of the fans don't know ****. If you think the front office and coaching staff don't understand what they have with Orton, well - that's just internet fodder for pointless discussions that fans seem to entrench themselves into.

DenverBrit
09-15-2011, 12:08 PM
Fox's hands are tied by Elway. Elway is afraid......yes, afraid.....of Tebow's popularity. Sounds stupid, I know, but I don't think Elway wants ANYONE replacing his name just yet, especially since he wasn't involved in drafting Tebow. He's McDaniels guy and Elway won't "risk" Tebow winning enough games that prevent the unlikely chance that Luck (keyword: Stanford QB) gets to be "Elway's Choice". The cards have been dealt for about 2 years.

It's a conspiracy!! Gaffney?? Ha!

Gort
09-15-2011, 12:23 PM
A)billick knew that boller was failed, which is why he traded for McNair. Also, You didn't count McNair's injury problems that led Boller to starting, due to the lack of talent at the backup QB position and the $ invested in Boller, Billick couldn't just "cut" him. It was his "reputation". But he proved he didn't stick with boller "just because" - he went and got McNair. Derpaderp.

That's your projection, as even pointed out John Fox started Delhomme over a vet.

I'd ignore the fan base as well. Most of the fans don't know ****. If you think the front office and coaching staff don't understand what they have with Orton, well - that's just internet fodder for pointless discussions that fans seem to entrench themselves into.

so you're now policing opinions on an opinion site? good luck with that.

i told you that this feels to me like the beginning of what Ravens fans went through with Billick and Bol... oh, why am i bothering. i made my point. i don't care if you agree with it or not. go pick a fight with somebody else.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 12:28 PM
I think the coaching staff/front office is just tired of the media bull****. I bet they are as annoyed as some of us on the OM having to hear about Orton/Tebow...

They have only themselves to blame...

alkemical
09-15-2011, 12:30 PM
so you're now policing opinions on an opinion site? good luck with that.

i told you that this feels to me like the beginning of what Ravens fans went through with Billick and Bol... oh, why am i bothering. i made my point. i don't care if you agree with it or not. go pick a fight with somebody else.

I'm not picking a fight, just correcting your inaccuracies. I just had to deal with it for a while living here in this area. Trust me man, these are one of the few topics I know! :D

I personally thought Billick was a good HEAD coach for the most part. it's funny how a guy can help manage one of the highest scoring O's, yet fail at building an O. When you think about it - Billick was managing veteran QB's in Minni also. He seems to not be very good at developing QB's. Which, was one the major reasons he was hired.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 12:30 PM
They have only themselves to blame...

For the people that remained employed from the past few years yes. Fox & Elway, not so much.

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 12:35 PM
For the people that remained employed from the past few years yes. Fox & Elway, not so much.

Well not entirely true...

These ARE the guys that had Orton on the block due to last season's footage, and then immediately put Orton back in with the 1s when the trade fell through without Tim throwing a single pass in camps.

They're also the same guys who avoided giving Tim significant pre-season playing time.

There have been plenty of head-scratchers in this whole drama that Fox and Elway absolutely are a big part of.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 12:38 PM
Well not entirely true...

These ARE the guys that had Orton on the block due to last season's footage, and then immediately put Orton back in with the 1s when the trade fell through without Tim throwing a single pass in camps.

They're also the same guys who avoided giving Tim significant pre-season playing time.

There have been plenty of head-scratchers in this whole drama that Fox and Elway absolutely are a big part of.


It's not Elway's fault people don't want Kyle Orton.

To me, it looks like they wanted to move Orton - everyone said "not really interested"...they see tebow and go "oh ****, this guys not ready yet"...and boom - we're in the mess we're in.

The lockout did not do this team any favors.

I'm still not sold on tebow - so I don't have this weird mythological view of him being some super star QB. I figure he's, what 5 months behind where he could have been?

DrFate
09-15-2011, 12:41 PM
For the people that remained employed from the past few years yes. Fox & Elway, not so much.

My point was that Fox/Elway have let this media circus continue and refused to take corrective action.

They tried to trade Orton (but he tanked the trade). They could have cut Orton. They could have cut Tebow. They could have traded Tebow. They could have had a real QB competition (which we saw in Washington but not in Denver). This staff had any number of options to avoid this media disaster and took NONE of them.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 12:43 PM
My point was that Fox/Elway have let this media circus continue and refused to take corrective action.

They tried to trade Orton (but he tanked the trade). They could have cut Orton. They could have cut Tebow. They could have traded Tebow. They could have had a real QB competition (which we saw in Washington but not in Denver). This staff had any number of options to avoid this media disaster and took NONE of them.

Each one of those courses of action, would have still caused a **** storm.

It's a no-win. it is what it is.

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 12:43 PM
It's not Elway's fault people don't want Kyle Orton.

To me, it looks like they wanted to move Orton - everyone said "not really interested"...they see tebow and go "oh ****, this guys not ready yet"...and boom - we're in the mess we're in.

The lockout did not do this team any favors.

I'm still not sold on tebow - so I don't have this weird mythological view of him being some super star QB. I figure he's, what 5 months behind where he could have been?

I don't think anyone is "sold on Tebow".

I just think people saw MNF, have seen that level of play for 2 years, and don't want it anymore and are ready to see what Tebow can bring to the table because it can't get much/if any worse.

WolfpackGuy
09-15-2011, 12:44 PM
If Teboz sinks or swims, it'll be better than watching that dog**** Bore-ton.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 12:45 PM
I don't think anyone is "sold on Tebow".

I just think people saw MNF, have seen that level of play for 2 years, and don't want it anymore and are ready to see what Tebow can bring to the table because it can't get much/if any worse.

I dunno man - each time i've ever said that.....it can always get worse.

IMO, maybe "hope & change" is what got this drive for Tebow going.

;) Kidding kidding - but you know what I mean. Trust me. I want to kick josh mcdaniels in the balls with kyle ortons face.

Wait...does that make me gay?

lol

swaiy
09-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Only one good thing came out of the game.

They won't be showing the Broncos on MNF for years to come after this.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Each one of those courses of action, would have still caused a **** storm.

It's a no-win. it is what it is.

Look at the DC situation - Beck and Grossman both had time with the first team in practice, both had extensive playing time in preseason. Beck had a lousy last preseason game (when he could have won the job) and no one in this are (where I live) is really questioning the move.

Had we seen an actual competition this preseason, this could have been avoided. If Tebow had been terrible on the field, why would people be chanting his name? I listed FOUR courses of action they could have taken, and instead they took the ONE that pisses people off (lie about a competition, give Orton the job wrapped in a bow, and keep Tebow on the roster)

It is made worse by this nonsense of Fox not naming a #2. You have people like John Clayton saying 'Quinn is CLEARLY the #2 QB in Denver'. Did he not see the last pre-season game?

alkemical
09-15-2011, 12:50 PM
I don't believe that at all.

Look at the DC situation - Beck and Grossman both had time with the first team in practice, both had extensive playing time in preseason. Beck had a lousy last preseason game (when he could have won the job) and no one in this are (where I live) is really questioning the move.

Had we seen an actual competition this preseason, this could have been avoided. If Tebow had been terrible on the field, why would people be chanting his name? I listed FOUR courses of action they could have taken, and instead they took the ONE that pisses people off (lie about a competition, give Orton the job, and keep Tebow on the roster)


There would be competition if they were equal. Trust me, I'm not a fan of Orton - but really the team is/was handcuffed due to the events from the Front office for several years.

Each course of action has a ramification. Obviously Quinn Sucks worse than Orton...and either Tebow isn't ready enough to have the coaching staff trust that he understands what "he's doing".

You imagine the media **** storm that would have happened cutting Tebow & keeping Orton & Quinn? Still a no-win.

You can argue about it all you want, but it is what it is. I don't feel "lied too", i don't feel jilted beyond seeing what bad business decisions do to cripple an organization.

The DC situation is a little different though isn't it. They had Grossman on the roster already last year - Shanny was there last year - they had some congruity going into this season.

Denver did not. The situations are not the same.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 12:57 PM
There would be competition if they were equal. Trust me, I'm not a fan of Orton - but really the team is/was handcuffed due to the events from the Front office for several years.

Fox keeps repeating the same nonsense, which is then parroted by the media 'Orton won a competition'. It didn't happen. You can't tell me the fanbase simply nods and smiles while they are lied to. Just imagine the scnario where there WAS a competition and Tebow played poorly - I don't think people are putting up billboards.


You imagine the media **** storm that would have happened cutting Tebow & keeping Orton & Quinn? Still a no-win.

But it's a temporary storm. When Cutler was traded there was a storm - but the media certainly doesn't talk about it anymore. (I admit is a frequent topic on this board, but you don't have reporters asking Orton 'do you think they made the right decision by trading Cutler for you'?) It removes the long-term distraction the team has now.



The DC situation is a little different though isn't it. They had Grossman on the roster already last year - Shanny was there last year - they had some congruity going into this season.

Denver did not. The situations are not the same.

No, they aren't the same. But all the pre-season chatter was that Shanahan wanted to go with Beck. And they had a REAL competition - each ran with the first team offense in practice, each ran with the first team in preseason (both actually started a game). And Beck would be the starter except he struggled in the last pre-season game. My point is - the Redskins fans aren't complaining about Grossman because they saw him win the competition (and he had a good game SUN)

Blart
09-15-2011, 12:57 PM
As a Denver FAN, I'm glad I'm not ignorant enough to chant for a 3rd sting QB.

These are truly the saddest days I have seen as a Broncos fan. :(

Me too. There's no way I'd go to a home game these days, sitting behind some moron wearing #15 boo'ing the whole game.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-15-2011, 01:05 PM
Me too. There's no way I'd go to a home game these days, sitting behind some moron wearing #15 boo'ing the whole game.

You could wear your village people cop outfit and play fan police.

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 01:13 PM
You could wear your village people cop outfit and play fan police.

Fuzzy hand cuffs.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-15-2011, 01:17 PM
Fuzzy hand cuffs.

Haaaay.... You have the right to remain thexy.

Archer81
09-15-2011, 01:24 PM
Me too. There's no way I'd go to a home game these days, sitting behind some moron wearing #15 boo'ing the whole game.


Even if its a pink #15 jersey? What if its a Marshall jersey?

Please qualify.

Kthnx.

:Broncos:

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 01:28 PM
Haaaay.... You have the right to remain thexy.

I'm stunned a gay guy isn't behind Tebow































(yup, double entendre intended)

DenverBrit
09-15-2011, 01:29 PM
I'm stunned a gay guy isn't behind Tebow

(yup, double entendre intended)

I thought you were projecting. ;D

alkemical
09-15-2011, 01:31 PM
Fox keeps repeating the same nonsense, which is then parroted by the media 'Orton won a competition'. It didn't happen. You can't tell me the fanbase simply nods and smiles while they are lied to. Just imagine the scnario where there WAS a competition and Tebow played poorly - I don't think people are putting up billboards.



But it's a temporary storm. When Cutler was traded there was a storm - but the media certainly doesn't talk about it anymore. (I admit is a frequent topic on this board, but you don't have reporters asking Orton 'do you think they made the right decision by trading Cutler for you'?) It removes the long-term distraction the team has now.




No, they aren't the same. But all the pre-season chatter was that Shanahan wanted to go with Beck. And they had a REAL competition - each ran with the first team offense in practice, each ran with the first team in preseason (both actually started a game). And Beck would be the starter except he struggled in the last pre-season game. My point is - the Redskins fans aren't complaining about Grossman because they saw him win the competition (and he had a good game SUN)


Orton did win a competition. Tebow looked like dog **** without a full season of OTA's, etc etc. I think some of you guys forget about that.

THIS...is a temporary storm. It's the short sightedness that keeps making this bigger than it is, because there's nothing that can be done. It was a lose-lose situation.

Wash fans aren't bitching about Rex, because he WON. Wait and revisit that if "bad rex" shows up.

ColoradoDarin
09-15-2011, 01:39 PM
Orton did win a competition. Tebow looked like dog **** without a full season of OTA's, etc etc. I think some of you guys forget about that.

THIS...is a temporary storm. It's the short sightedness that keeps making this bigger than it is, because there's nothing that can be done. It was a lose-lose situation.

Wash fans aren't b****ing about Rex, because he WON. Wait and revisit that if "bad rex" shows up.

Orton:
Week 1: 2/6, 37 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 2: 10/13, 135 yards, one TD, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 3: 16/23, 236 yards, one TD, one INT, 4 yards rushing
Week 4: DNP
Overall: 28/42 (66.6% completion percentage), 408 yards, two TDs, one INT, 4 yards rushing, QB rating of 104.1

Quinn:
Week 1: 8/14, 120 yards, one TD, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 2: 10/16, 130 yards, one TD, one INT, 0 yards rushing
Week 3: DNP
Week 4: 4/12, 26 yards, no TDs, one INT, 0 yards rushing
Overall: 22/42 (52.3% completion percentage), 276 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 0 yards rushing, QB rating of 69.1

Tebow:
Week 1: 6/7, 91 yards, no TDs, no INTS, 15 yards rushing
Week 2: 1/2, 10 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 7 yards rushing
Week 3: 6/11, 93 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 25 yards rushing
Week 4: 7/11, 116 yards, one TD, no INTs, 8 yards rushing
Overall: 20/31 (64.5% completion percentage), 320 yards, one TD, no INTs, 55 yards rushing, QB rating of 109.6


h/t ExPatFan (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=99764)

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 01:43 PM
I thought you were projecting. ;D

That's probably it.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 01:43 PM
Orton did win a competition. Tebow looked like dog **** without a full season of OTA's, etc etc. I think some of you guys forget about that.

When did this happen?

Tebow was 6 for 7 for 91 yards against Dallas
Tebow was 1 for 2 against Buffalo
Tebow was 6 for 11 against Seattle
Tebow was 7 for 11 against Arizona

Orton played EVERY SNAP with the first team, Tebow was with the scrubs. What of the above equates to your opinion of 'dog ***'?

(Thanks ColoradoDarin for the better stats)

jhns
09-15-2011, 01:45 PM
When did this happen?

Tebow was 6 for 7 for 91 yards against Dallas
Tebow was 1 for 2 against Buffalo
Tebow was 6 for 11 against Seattle
Tebow was 7 for 11 against Arizona

Orton played EVERY SNAP with the first team, Tebow was normally was with the scrubs. What of the above equates to your opinion of 'dog ***'?

He gets his opinion from never watching football and randomly latching onto whatever random writer tells him.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 01:50 PM
Orton:
Week 1: 2/6, 37 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 2: 10/13, 135 yards, one TD, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 3: 16/23, 236 yards, one TD, one INT, 4 yards rushing
Week 4: DNP
Overall: 28/42 (66.6% completion percentage), 408 yards, two TDs, one INT, 4 yards rushing, QB rating of 104.1

Quinn:
Week 1: 8/14, 120 yards, one TD, no INTs, 0 yards rushing
Week 2: 10/16, 130 yards, one TD, one INT, 0 yards rushing
Week 3: DNP
Week 4: 4/12, 26 yards, no TDs, one INT, 0 yards rushing
Overall: 22/42 (52.3% completion percentage), 276 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 0 yards rushing, QB rating of 69.1

Tebow:
Week 1: 6/7, 91 yards, no TDs, no INTS, 15 yards rushing
Week 2: 1/2, 10 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 7 yards rushing
Week 3: 6/11, 93 yards, no TDs, no INTs, 25 yards rushing
Week 4: 7/11, 116 yards, one TD, no INTs, 8 yards rushing
Overall: 20/31 (64.5% completion percentage), 320 yards, one TD, no INTs, 55 yards rushing, QB rating of 109.6


h/t ExPatFan (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=99764)

When did this happen?

Tebow was 6 for 7 for 91 yards against Dallas
Tebow was 1 for 2 against Buffalo
Tebow was 6 for 11 against Seattle
Tebow was 7 for 11 against Arizona

Orton played EVERY SNAP with the first team, Tebow was with the scrubs. What of the above equates to your opinion of 'dog ***'?

(Thanks ColoradoDarin for the better stats)

He gets his opinion from never watching football and randomly latching onto whatever random writer tells him.

Stats are everything! Here's the deal: With the financial constraints of the organization, I highly doubt another $9/mil mistake would be accepted on top of already what has been ineffective.

Say what you want, and point to all the stats you want - the case is - if Tebow inspired confidence from the front office to the team - he'd be starting.

That's pretty much the story on it.

This isn't an endorsement of Orton either...just the sad situation the Broncos are in.

But hey, I won't stop you guys from your dramallama's.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 01:53 PM
Stats are everything! Here's the deal: With the financial constraints of the organization, I highly doubt another $9/mil mistake would be accepted on top of already what has been ineffective.

Say what you want, and point to all the stats you want - the case is - if Tebow inspired confidence from the front office to the team - he'd be starting.

That's pretty much the story on it.

So, you can't back up the 'dog ****' comment.

rugbythug
09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
Me too. There's no way I'd go to a home game these days, sitting behind some moron wearing #15 boo'ing the whole game.

Do you prefer a raider fan wearing sunglasses highfiving other degenerates all night?

jhns
09-15-2011, 01:55 PM
Stats are everything! Here's the deal: With the financial constraints of the organization, I highly doubt another $9/mil mistake would be accepted on top of already what has been ineffective.

Say what you want, and point to all the stats you want - the case is - if Tebow inspired confidence from the front office to the team - he'd be starting.

That's pretty much the story on it.

This isn't an endorsement of Orton either...just the sad situation the Broncos are in.

But hey, I won't stop you guys from your dramallama's.

Spoken like a true McFan.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 01:57 PM
So, you can't back up the 'dog ****' comment.

I'd say the games I have seen as well as the video content show me he isn't there yet. He doesn't understand the O. He knows he has to score touchdowns and first downs - but I don't think he understands Defenses yet and he sure isn't ready with the concepts the coaching staff wants him to understand.

If the team didn't care about Tebow, they would have cut him - or just thrown him to the wolves to make him fail.

Running around and missing reads and throws to me, shows he was playing like ****. Being able to make a few plays a game, that shows his talent and what he CAN do. He's just not there yet.


Again, most of you are too entrenched into your own POV to really have any sort of discussion.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-15-2011, 02:00 PM
I'd say the games I have seen as well as the video content show me he isn't there yet. He doesn't understand the O. He knows he has to score touchdowns and first downs - but I don't think he understands Defenses yet and he sure isn't ready with the concepts the coaching staff wants him to understand.

If the team didn't care about Tebow, they would have cut him - or just thrown him to the wolves to make him fail.

Running around and missing reads and throws to me, shows he was playing like ****. Being able to make a few plays a game, that shows his talent and what he CAN do. He's just not there yet.


Again, most of you are too entrenched into your own POV to really have any sort of discussion.
Way to hit the nail on the head!!!:thumbs:

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:01 PM
Running around and missing reads and throws to me, shows he was playing like ****. Being able to make a few plays a game, that shows his talent and what he CAN do. He's just not there yet.


How does he put up a QB rating of over 100 if he's 'running around and missing reads and throws'? How does that make sense? Passes are getting completed, points are being scored. Isn't that supposed to be the goal?

'He's dog **** regardless of results' is not persuasive. I always love the 'he looks bad even though the numbers don't reflect my random opinion' argument.

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:03 PM
I'd say the games I have seen as well as the video content show me he isn't there yet. He doesn't understand the O. He knows he has to score touchdowns and first downs - but I don't think he understands Defenses yet and he sure isn't ready with the concepts the coaching staff wants him to understand.

If the team didn't care about Tebow, they would have cut him - or just thrown him to the wolves to make him fail.

Running around and missing reads and throws to me, shows he was playing like ****. Being able to make a few plays a game, that shows his talent and what he CAN do. He's just not there yet.


Again, most of you are too entrenched into your own POV to really have any sort of discussion.

Cant beat you, Mr. Just Because, telling others they can't have a discussion...

Have you ever had a real football discussion here? When was the last time you actually broke something down?

So, which plays stand out to you as horrible missed reads from Tebow? What throws did he miss that were so bad as he put up a 65 completion percentage? Do you have any specifics?

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:04 PM
Spoken like a true McFan.

I dunno man - each time i've ever said that.....it can always get worse.

IMO, maybe "hope & change" is what got this drive for Tebow going.

;) Kidding kidding - but you know what I mean. Trust me. I want to kick josh mcdaniels in the balls with kyle ortons face.

Wait...does that make me gay?

lol


Well, one thing you are good at...is being wrong!

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:05 PM
Way to hit the nail on the head!!!:thumbs:

Other than the fact that all facts say you two are a joke...

Again, McFans acting luke McFans. What else is new? Why do you hate this franchise so much?

Bronco Vixen
09-15-2011, 02:05 PM
I'd say the games I have seen as well as the video content show me he isn't there yet. He doesn't understand the O. He knows he has to score touchdowns and first downs - but I don't think he understands Defenses yet and he sure isn't ready with the concepts the coaching staff wants him to understand.

If the team didn't care about Tebow, they would have cut him - or just thrown him to the wolves to make him fail.

Running around and missing reads and throws to me, shows he was playing like ****. Being able to make a few plays a game, that shows his talent and what he CAN do. He's just not there yet.


Again, most of you are too entrenched into your own POV to really have any sort of discussion.

Well that alone puts him in front of Fetal McFloppyfumble.

When exactly did this magical competition happen of which everyone speaks? Orton was named the starter prior to camp and no one else took any snaps with the starters.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-15-2011, 02:06 PM
Orton played EVERY SNAP with the first team, Tebow was with the scrubs. What of the above equates to your opinion of 'dog ***'?

Sure he played "with" the scrubs, but he also played AGAINST the oppositions scrubs! It's really a moot point/stat.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:06 PM
When exactly did this magical competition happen of which everyone speaks? Orton was named the starter prior to camp and no one else took any snaps with the starters.

Perfectly succinct

rep!

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:07 PM
How does he put up a QB rating of over 100 if he's 'running around and missing reads and throws'? How does that make sense? Passes are getting completed, points are being scored. Isn't that supposed to be the goal?

'He's dog **** regardless of results' is not persuasive. I always love the 'he looks bad even though the numbers don't reflect my random opinion' argument.


You are doing the inverse.

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:07 PM
Well, one thing you are good at...is being wrong!

McFan doesn't mean you have to lkke McDaniels smart guy... It is used the same as how we use: "Opps, I just pulled an alkemical!"

So you don't think the front office can be wrong about anything but you didn't like McDaniels. That sure makes sense!

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:08 PM
Sure he played "with" the scrubs, but he also played AGAINST the oppositions scrubs! It's really a moot point/stat.

No, it's not. Any random player on defense can make a play, scrub or not. Offensive line play requires a higher level of teamwork. Plenty of times Tebow took the snap and immediately had three guys in the backfield. Orton was playing with the first team OLine ever time.

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:08 PM
Sure he played "with" the scrubs, but he also played AGAINST the oppositions scrubs! It's really a moot point/stat.

And did better than Orton.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:08 PM
Well that alone puts him in front of Fetal McFloppyfumble.

When exactly did this magical competition happen of which everyone speaks? Orton was named the starter prior to camp and no one else took any snaps with the starters.

So, is it the jews, aliens, or reptoids that are behind Tebow not starting?

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:09 PM
You are doing the inverse.

I don't care how it 'looks'. I care about the end result.

I agree that Tebow shouldn't give any passing clinics and won't remind anyone visually of Peyton Manning. But the completion percentage, the rating, the points scored - that's what I care about. Those things lead to winning.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:10 PM
McFan doesn't mean you have to lkke McDaniels smart guy... It is used the same as how we use: "Opps, I just pulled an alkemical!"

So you don't think the front office can be wrong about anything but you didn't like McDaniels. That sure makes sense!

I never stated the front office is not wrong about everything, so your histrionic argument is invalid.

I guess you pulled a JHNS, eh?

TheReverend
09-15-2011, 02:10 PM
So, is it the jews, aliens, or reptoids that are behind Tebow not starting?

****ty FO.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:12 PM
I don't care how it 'looks'. I care about the end result.

I agree that Tebow shouldn't give any passing clinics and won't remind anyone visually of Peyton Manning. But the completion percentage, the rating, the points scored - that's what I care about. Those things lead to winning.

Obviously. Meanwhile you put someone unprepared out there, and they fail and you lose your investment.

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:12 PM
I never stated the front office is not wrong about everything, so your histrionic argument is invalid.

I guess you pulled a JHNS, eh?

Actually, you did. It is your only argument against Tebow. You are really dumb enough to argue something and not even know what you are saying? I am really surprised by this developement. No really, I am...

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:13 PM
****ty FO.

LOL!! True & Touche.


I just don't see this big anti-tebow conspiracy Rev. From a "business" standpoint - I just don't see it.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:13 PM
Obviously. Meanwhile you put someone unprepared out there, and they fail and you lose your investment.

* Tebow is unprepared

* Tebow is more productive than Orton

Alkemical - please reconcile the two above statements

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:14 PM
Actually, you did. It is your only argument against Tebow. You are really dumb enough to argue something and not even know what you are saying? I am really surprised by this developement. No really, I am...

Actually, i didn't. But that's ok, i'd hate to ruin your consistency.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:15 PM
Tebow is unprepared

Tebow is more productive than Orton

Alkemical - please reconcile the two above statements


Talent only gets you so far. :D

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:15 PM
Actually, i didn't. But that's ok, i'd hate to ruin your consistency.

Actually, you did. In fact, you did it in this thread...

I used to think this was an act. Now I see you really are pretty stupid.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:16 PM
Actually, you did. In fact, you did it in this thread...

I used to think this was an act. Now I see you really are pretty stupid.

Quote and show me where I said the Front Office is NEVER wrong?

Considering the fact I am not an internal employee of the organization, and not privy to classroom/practice: From my outsiders view - they are buying time till they start Tebow due to the 5months of lock out.

Perhaps you feel otherwise, but stating I said the front office is NEVER wrong being, is well egregious.

DarkHorse30
09-15-2011, 02:17 PM
It's a conspiracy!! Gaffney?? Ha!

No - I'm just saying that new coaches/gms/vp's often want to pick THEIR QB. Blaming Orton/Tebow/Quinn situation on Fox is pointless to me because I bet he doesn't even care who is the QB. He's never had a good QB, and he is about fixing the defense primarily.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:17 PM
Talent only gets you so far. :D

And yet Tebow's 'talent' seems to get the team further than Orton's 'lack thereof'. Weird huh... You say Tebow plays like 'dog ****' and when asked to back that up, you don't even try.

Again - the topic of this thread is fans hating on Orton (to the point of putting up a bilboard). Why is anyone surprised? There was no competition, and when Tebow has played, he's been more productive than Orton. Of course the fans are pissed.

Bronco Vixen
09-15-2011, 02:18 PM
LOL!! True & Touche.


I just don't see this big anti-tebow conspiracy Rev. From a "business" standpoint - I just don't see it.

Contract escalators; immediate job security going with what is "safe;" cognitive inflexibility with respect to what the quintessentially prototypical NFL QB himself sees as the quintessential prototypical NFL QB. Maybe. But most likely it's those damn jews, aliens, and reptoids ;)

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:19 PM
No - I'm just saying that new coaches/owners often want to pick THEIR QB.

This is true

Blaming Orton/Tebow/Quinn situation on Fox is pointless to me

1) Have a real competition in preseason
2) cut Orton
3) trade Orton
4) cut Tebow
5) trade Tebow

Any of these would have addressed the circus. The team (Fox + front office) choose 'none of the above'

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:20 PM
Contract escalators; immediate job security going with what is "safe;" cognitive inflexibility with respect to what the quintessentially prototypical NFL QB himself sees as the quintessential prototypical NFL QB. Maybe. But most likely it's those damn jews, aliens, and reptoids ;)

I don't think the contract escalators matter as much as people think. If Tebow were to come in and tear it up - concession sales, attendance, beer, etc would start increasing as well. Short term it could effect cash flow, but long term it would open up more liquidity. I saw it with the Penguins in the NHL. Once they had a "star", all of a sudden they had $.

Now, as far as Elway being a drunk and looking for himself and hating the young Elway - Maybe that's TOO obvious. ;)

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:21 PM
Quote and show me where I said the Front Office is NEVER wrong?

It is your only argument against Tebow... It is all of your posts from the last two pages.

Correct me then. What is your argument against Tebow. Where did he miss reads? Where did he miss easy throws? How do you know he can't read a defense? As soon as you started to talk about this, you completely changed to "The FO says so!". That is the McFan argument. It is used by you because you can't break down Tebows play. You can never actually discuss football because you don't watch it. This has been very clear for a long time.

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:21 PM
No - I'm just saying that new coaches/owners often want to pick THEIR QB. Blaming Orton/Tebow/Quinn situation on Fox is pointless to me because I bet he doesn't even care who is the QB. He's never had a good QB, and he is about fixing the defense primarily.

LOL, how much would that sting. Take a DE #2. ;)

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:23 PM
It is your only argument against Tebow... It is all of your posts from the last two pages.

Correct me then. What is your argument against Tebow. Where did he miss reads? Where did he miss easy throws? How do you know he can't read a defense? As soon as you started to talk about this, you completely changed to "The FO says so!". That is the McFan argument. It is used by you because you can't break down Tebows play. You can never actually discuss football because you don't watch it. This has been very clear for a long time.


"I can't find any proof, so i'm going to make a bunch of **** up". That's pretty much your position.

:thumbs:

I've stated my position on Tebow many, many times. I'm not sold on him, and I hate Orton. How much more clear can you get?

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:24 PM
"I can't find any proof, so i'm going to make a bunch of **** up". That's pretty much your position.

:thumbs:

Still no football takes? Big surprise!

Typical McFan.

"Because the FO says so!"

"I didn't say the thing that is right there!"

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-15-2011, 02:25 PM
Other than the fact that all facts say you two are a joke...

Again, McFans acting luke McFans. What else is new? Why do you hate this franchise so much?

Your constant need to categorize and group people ... you spent your lunchtimes alone in the Library didn't you? Reading up on sociable behavior?


In the end, I'm just not willing to say I know more about Denver's QBs, than the guys who are paid to know about our QBs. That's all. ;)

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:25 PM
"I can't find any proof, so i'm going to make a bunch of **** up". That's pretty much your position.

:thumbs:


Tebow looked like dog **** without a full season of OTA's, etc etc.

If so, he's not the only one...

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:26 PM
Still no football takes? Big surprise!

Typical McFan.

Wait a second, you are commenting on MY FOOTBALL TAKES!!! Yet you say I don't talk football.

LMAO! Thanks for the laugh buddy. I'm on my way to a presentation. Check ya'll later.

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:28 PM
Your constant need to categorize and group people ... you spent your lunchtimes alone in the Library didn't you? Reading up on sociable behavior?


In the end, I'm just not willing to say I know more about Denver's QBs, than the guys who are paid to know about our QBs. That's all. ;)

I don't have a library anywhere near me, so that isn't even an option.

Good for you! You blindly follow what the FO says, only to come to a place for sharing opinions and cry about others having opinions. What a special guy!

alkemical
09-15-2011, 02:28 PM
If so, he's not the only one...

Oh, so Tebow did have a full offseason of OTA's, camps, etc?

A 2nd year player isn't going to inspire the confidence of a new coaching regime when they have had little/no time to work with him. A 7 year vet will win out in the short term until things are in place.

I don't understand why it's difficult to see this plan of action. They are going to let Orton hang himself. I just don't see the need to rush Tebow in, when he's got some time to make up.

But hey, I guess some more people can post about turmoil in the locker room and let us know their insider's perspective from their inside sources.

jhns
09-15-2011, 02:29 PM
Wait a second, you are commenting on MY FOOTBALL TAKES!!! Yet you say I don't talk football.

LMAO! Thanks for the laugh buddy. I'm on my way to a presentation. Check ya'll later.

That is exactly what I said and you continue to prove it.

DrFate
09-15-2011, 02:31 PM
Oh, so Tebow did have a full offseason of OTA's, camps, etc?

I was referring to the other comment-> 'i'm going to make a bunch of **** up". You said Tebow's play was 'dog ****' then couldn't back it up.


A 2nd year player isn't going to inspire the confidence of a new coaching regime when they have had little/no time to work with him. A 7 year vet will win out in the short term until things are in place.

I don't understand why it's difficult to see this plan of action. They are going to let Orton hang himself. I just don't see the need to rush Tebow in, when he's got some time to make up.

But hey, I guess some more people can post about turmoil in the locker room and let us know their insider's perspective from their inside sources.

This portion of your comment is moderately intelligent.

GoBroncos DownUnder
09-15-2011, 03:04 PM
Good for you! You blindly follow what the FO says, only to come to a place for sharing opinions and cry about others having opinions. What a special guy!
Difference between you and me is that I have seen enough and met enough people in the NFL to realize that my knowledge of what goes on is insignificant. Sure, I still voice my opinion, but if I'm talking to a guy who makes six figures per year, who can recite every (combine) bench and 40 time from the past 10 years ... I may as well go argue with a heart surgeon, because I read something on Wikipedia!
If Tebow had of delivered on the practice field and in the film room, he'd be starting for us now, the fact that he's been reduced to 3rd string QB, IMO, speaks volumes about how far he still needs to go.


Each to their own, I don't shout anyone down for their opinion, or tell them how they're wrong ... not my style, I leave that to the Orange Mane Keyboard Warriors, like you jhns!! ;)

DenverBrit
09-15-2011, 03:22 PM
No - I'm just saying that new coaches/gms/vp's often want to pick THEIR QB. Blaming Orton/Tebow/Quinn situation on Fox is pointless to me because I bet he doesn't even care who is the QB. He's never had a good QB, and he is about fixing the defense primarily.

I agree to a point. I do think Fox cares about who is QB, but, like you I doubt that's his priority when he looks at the D and running game.

I was busting your chops about your Elway comment:

[B]Fox's hands are tied by Elway. Elway is afraid......yes, afraid.....of Tebow's popularity.

Broncos4tw
09-15-2011, 03:57 PM
Difference between you and me is that I have seen enough and met enough people in the NFL to realize that my knowledge of what goes on is insignificant. Sure, I still voice my opinion, but if I'm talking to a guy who makes six figures per year, who can recite every (combine) bench and 40 time from the past 10 years ... I may as well go argue with a heart surgeon, because I read something on Wikipedia!
If Tebow had of delivered on the practice field and in the film room, he'd be starting for us now, the fact that he's been reduced to 3rd string QB, IMO, speaks volumes about how far he still needs to go.


Each to their own, I don't shout anyone down for their opinion, or tell them how they're wrong ... not my style, I leave that to the Orange Mane Keyboard Warriors, like you jhns!! ;)


Yes.. but the issue isn't about if Tebow is "ready or not." He is not an invalid. He CAN play. Perhaps not up to NFL snuff, but he can play. The point is that Orton even with all his years still can NOT play effectively. So what's the point in playing him at all? If we are destined to not make the playoffs this year.. why not start Tebow, and get him the reps to see if he is actually going to develop? Well before the draft, so we know what we need to do, preferably.

Winning 7 games with Orton or winning 5 with Tebow.. who cares? The end result is the same. I'll take the less wins and the higher draft pick, thanks, given a choice.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 03:59 PM
Yes.. but the issue isn't about if Tebow is "ready or not." He is not an invalid. He CAN play. Perhaps not up to NFL snuff, but he can play. The point is that Orton even with all his years still can NOT play effectively. So what's the point in playing him at all? If we are destined to not make the playoffs this year.. why not start Tebow, and get him the reps to see if he is actually going to develop? Well before the draft, so we know what we need to do, preferably.

Winning 7 games with Orton or winning 5 with Tebow.. who cares? The end result is the same. I'll take the less wins and the higher draft pick, thanks, given a choice.

We aren't going to win more games with Orton anyway. That's a pipe dream.

Captain 'Dre
09-15-2011, 04:03 PM
I'm not sure why Fox feels he has to go out of his way to take a dig at Tebow. If you still want to start Orton, just say it, no need to add "even the last staff felt so".

Fox kept saying Kyle Orton is our starter right now...

Kinda leaves the door open for thinking Kyle might *not* be the starter in the fairly near future.... or any time other than "right now".

Fox can't possibly think that putting it THAT will will quiet the mob. ugh!~

Broncos4tw
09-15-2011, 04:06 PM
We aren't going to win more games with Orton anyway. That's a pipe dream.

I don't believe that. I think if Orton played the entire season, we are looking at 7 games tops, but perhaps as long as 4. I do think our D will step up enough in some games, where even 17 or 14 points will win it.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 04:09 PM
I don't believe that. I think if Orton played the entire season, we are looking at 7 games tops, but perhaps as long as 4. I do think our D will step up enough in some games, where even 17 or 14 points will win it.

Orton was 1-5 in games that were decided by 8 points or less last year, and he's 0-1 this year. We aren't going to win more games with him. He's 5-18 in his last 23 starts. Again, we aren't going to win more games with him. It's really not that difficult to understand.

Requiem
09-15-2011, 04:13 PM
The only redeeming quality about Kyle Orton is that he was caught drinking Jack Daniels.

Mile High Mojoe
09-15-2011, 04:16 PM
:~ohyah!:The only redeeming quality about Kyle Orton is that he was caught drinking Jack Daniels.

crawdad
09-15-2011, 04:17 PM
Difference between you and me is that I have seen enough and met enough people in the NFL to realize that my knowledge of what goes on is insignificant. Sure, I still voice my opinion, but if I'm talking to a guy who makes six figures per year, who can recite every (combine) bench and 40 time from the past 10 years ... I may as well go argue with a heart surgeon, because I read something on Wikipedia!
If Tebow had of delivered on the practice field and in the film room, he'd be starting for us now, the fact that he's been reduced to 3rd string QB, IMO, speaks volumes about how far he still needs to go.


Each to their own, I don't shout anyone down for their opinion, or tell them how they're wrong ... not my style, I leave that to the Orange Mane Keyboard Warriors, like you jhns!! ;)

Jhizz will be jhizz, he thinks people care about his opinion but really he adds nothing to the board but an argument.

Broncos4tw
09-15-2011, 07:42 PM
Orton was 1-5 in games that were decided by 8 points or less last year, and he's 0-1 this year. We aren't going to win more games with him. He's 5-18 in his last 23 starts. Again, we aren't going to win more games with him. It's really not that difficult to understand.

Ok.. if football was played with one person on each side, sure.. I could believe that. However, some other aspect of the team will shine some weeks. And as much as I am disappointed in Orton, even I don't believe he'll fold every single game. He has some good games. He'll have a handful. I'd never believe in a million years that this team, if Orton has every start, would go 0-16. There is no way in hell.

Agamemnon
09-15-2011, 11:03 PM
Ok.. if football was played with one person on each side, sure.. I could believe that. However, some other aspect of the team will shine some weeks. And as much as I am disappointed in Orton, even I don't believe he'll fold every single game. He has some good games. He'll have a handful. I'd never believe in a million years that this team, if Orton has every start, would go 0-16. There is no way in hell.

In close games Orton can't make plays. Therefore he isn't going to win more games than Tebow. This isn't about the rest of the team. This isn't about them going winless (not sure where you got that). This is about Orton being almost entirely incapable of leading a team to victories in clutch situations. Therefore we aren't going to win more games with him over Tebow. His overall performance over the last two plus seasons indicates this very clearly.

And please understand I am not saying Tebow will lead us to a winning record. All I'm saying is that he wouldn't lead us to any less wins than Orton.

jhns
09-15-2011, 11:58 PM
Difference between you and me is that I have seen enough and met enough people in the NFL to realize that my knowledge of what goes on is insignificant. Sure, I still voice my opinion, but if I'm talking to a guy who makes six figures per year, who can recite every (combine) bench and 40 time from the past 10 years ... I may as well go argue with a heart surgeon, because I read something on Wikipedia!
If Tebow had of delivered on the practice field and in the film room, he'd be starting for us now, the fact that he's been reduced to 3rd string QB, IMO, speaks volumes about how far he still needs to go.


Each to their own, I don't shout anyone down for their opinion, or tell them how they're wrong ... not my style, I leave that to the Orange Mane Keyboard Warriors, like you jhns!! ;)

You said the same crap with McDaniels. I win.

Jhizz will be jhizz, he thinks people care about his opinion but really he adds nothing to the board but an argument.

And you do nothing but cry about what people say and protect your girlfriend tailgayt. You are like a little girl.

cutthemdown
09-16-2011, 01:03 AM
What we are arguing here is nothing new. We all have agreed in order for Orton to win football games he needs big plays from the offensive weapons, some running first down so play action works, a defense that doesn't give up 200 yrds rushing and big plays in the 4th quarter and he has to protect the ball.

One of those happened he got the big play from Decker. Had Orton not fumbled, or if he had a running game, or if the defense didn't crumble at the end of the game he still could have won.

I get it though. A lot of you feel Tebow more Elway like and he can win with a bad team by running for first downs, making a huge 3rd down play, firing up the offense.

I hope you are all right and he has shown he can make those runs, and he has some thrown some decent balls. I was a little worried he seemed to take a lot of sacks, i figured he would be more elusive. I have to admit i think his pocket presence leaves a lot to be desired. I like his toughness though and would like to see him play if Orton cant score points vs the Bungles.

Still the losing getting easier to take. Sucks because that means we are getting used to it. Maybe we need some team like Chargers to win it all, really put it all together, and show us how its done 2 times a yr. I always said I thought the beating that Elway took from Greg Townsend and Howie Long in the 80's made the guys he was going against in the Superbowls seem like pussies. Could you imagine Orton trying to take the hit that Bill Pickell put on Elway? I can't remember the game but it was so hard I was afraid Elway might have a broken back. He popped up, a little slow be he popped up.

Orton IMO is not going to finish the yr in Fox offense it doesn't seem to be designed to help him avoid sacks. Going into the Shotgun that much just tells defense to tee off on the QB. If the oline is that bad inside then Tebow would probably just be running around, whatever could be fun to watch.

I think we will see it, just that Fox maybe doesn't want 16 games of it. He figures let Orton wear out his last bit of juice with the lockerroom, then make the switch. Or maybe he thinks he will get lucky and Orton will get injured just enough to see what Tebow, or maybe even Quinn can do.

Still its going to be a long yr, I understand people being bummed. I think I went through my meltdown last preseason when i was screaming this team is utterly devoid of NFL starting caliber players. I guess we still are. I sort of put on the orange koolaid glasses hoping players on the defense and interior oline were better then they looked and it was bad coaching and scheme.

Really I saw all the oline get swatted around at different times, but.....Orton did have 4-5 drop backs where it looked like he was searching for a wr and could not pull the trigger. Plenty of time to launch a pass in the NFL.

Agamemnon
09-16-2011, 01:28 AM
Really I saw all the oline get swatted around at different times, but.....Orton did have 4-5 drop backs where it looked like he was searching for a wr and could not pull the trigger. Plenty of time to launch a pass in the NFL.

That's really something I think a lot of people are missing. The guy had time on a lot of plays and still failed to get it done even then.

cutthemdown
09-16-2011, 03:13 AM
That's really something I think a lot of people are missing. The guy had time on a lot of plays and still failed to get it done even then.

Yep. True it was from the shotgun and on those plays the replay sort of showed the guys all covered. So I am not saying it wasnt a good coverage sack, just saying its not like the oline didnt battle trying to give Orton time.

Agamemnon
09-16-2011, 06:14 AM
Yep. True it was from the shotgun and on those plays the replay sort of showed the guys all covered. So I am not saying it wasnt a good coverage sack, just saying its not like the oline didnt battle trying to give Orton time.

That's when a seven year vet should know to throw it away...

alkemical
09-16-2011, 06:36 AM
Again, I think the comment was a reaction of:

"Not this **** again, and i'm only in week one."

I think they understand the fan base, it's why Elway has tried to adopt a more public presence with Social Media. But when it's a lose-lose situation, they are going to go with the coaches and players before the fans. They understand that this year is going to be ****. Fans have to understand this too.

It's going to require patience, and no matter how self important-entitled-b****y-infantile you are to complain - nothing's really going to change until it's feasible.

If you* want to control the Denver Broncos, go play Madden. Other than that, you are going to have to exercise some patience and realize that there's a mess that's being cleaned up - it just doesn't happen in 1:45 - Ding - hot pockets are done time frame.



*you = not the you personally, but the YOU as in the fanbase.



Catching up on news, I see this:

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!


https://twitter.com/#!/johnelway


Ugh.

Well, I guess the only thing I can say is this:

I will need to drink as much as Pat & John in order to watch any Broncos football.

Blueflame
09-16-2011, 07:27 AM
Catching up on news, I see this:

johnelway John Elway
If decisions were made based on one week, Id have been outta here after my first start!


https://twitter.com/#!/johnelway


Ugh.

Well, I guess the only thing I can say is this:

I will need to drink as much as Pat & John in order to watch any Broncos football.

In fairness, it's kinda an unrealistic expectation for the fans to think anyone could completely turn it around (undo all of the McDaniels damage) in a single lockout-shortened offseason. We fans have to be somewhat patient and hope for the best but not be too surprised if the team still struggles. I do think they're headed toward improvement now (there's pretty much no way to go but up from where we were last year).

alkemical
09-16-2011, 08:04 AM
In fairness, it's kinda an unrealistic expectation for the fans to think anyone could completely turn it around (undo all of the McDaniels damage) in a single lockout-shortened offseason. We fans have to be somewhat patient and hope for the best but not be too surprised if the team still struggles. I do think they're headed toward improvement now (there's pretty much no way to go but up from where we were last year).

I know that, and have said that. As a fan, I want to be excited. But as i've stated numerous times - this year is full of suck.

crawdad
09-16-2011, 08:50 AM
You said the same crap with McDaniels. I win.



And you do nothing but cry about what people say and protect your girlfriend tailgayt. You are like a little girl.

You just wish that you had a friend like TGN! He will go to the trenches with his friends and he really doesn't need my protection from the likes of you! You are such a smart man!

TheReverend
09-16-2011, 08:55 AM
You just wish that you had a friend like TGN! He will go to the trenches with his friends and he really doesn't need my protection from the likes of you! You are such a smart man!

...And he'll also regret not shooting two policemen. :thumbsup:

jhns
09-16-2011, 08:56 AM
You just wish that you had a friend like TGN! He will go to the trenches with his friends and he really doesn't need my protection from the likes of you! You are such a smart man!

No, I really don't. The dude is talking about killing cops and talking **** to guys that were being nice to him. He is a low pife POS that hates the world because he is a fat slob with no real friends.

crawdad
09-16-2011, 08:58 AM
Really, when two cops invade your home, do tell me what you would do? Shall I connect the dots for you?

alkemical
09-16-2011, 09:00 AM
Really, when two cops invade your home, do tell me what you would do? Shall I connect the dots for you?

Get tazered & sue

;)

Kidding, I just wanted to be silly before the coffee kicks in.

jhns
09-16-2011, 09:02 AM
Really, when two cops invade your home, do tell me what you would do? Shall I connect the dots for you?

Invade? LOL

Oh, the drama!

So whats your excuse for him trashing a poster that was even nice to him after his cop killing, hate that poster, rant? Really good guy!

crawdad
09-16-2011, 09:09 AM
Invade? LOL

Oh, the drama!

So whats your excuse for him trashing a poster that was even nice to him after his cop killing, hate that poster, rant? Really good guy!

When have you ever been nice to anyone?

TheReverend
09-16-2011, 09:12 AM
Really, when two cops invade your home, do tell me what you would do? Shall I connect the dots for you?

Not wish I had shot and killed two guys trying to do their jobs this long after the fact?

jhns
09-16-2011, 09:12 AM
When have you ever been nice to anyone?

I wasn't talking about me. He is an ass to me but that is at least understandable. I am also not claiming to be a good guy after acting like I do. You see, some of us live in reality.

pricejj
09-16-2011, 10:09 AM
Until Orton loses the locker room, Tebow will have to wait.

Tebow's best opportunities will come in redzone or wildcat packages.

In the meantime, Fox and Elway should get the benefit of the doubt.

It was freaking game one and people want to throw Fox under the bus and start our 3rd string qb?

Give it time to play out. Three years should do it.

Hey clueless. Orton sucks.